campus at this time. this is a community campus. a community college. and as you know, it is a sister campus to the one in january where there was also a similar act of violence. two people hurt in that case. >> do we know if the suspect in custody is connected to the school? do we know if as he student? have they commented on that at all? >> reporter: they haven't and it is our knowledge, they're talking to him at this point. haven't released a lot of details about him. conceivably, this was a school day, during the school day. it is not a secured campus. you can drive right in and out and there are several entrances and exits. we haven't determined whether he is a college student or a student enrolled here. >> you mentioned the shooting that happened at another campus of the same college, indications are that that shooting was gang-related. any indications here that there may be some gang connection in

this instance? >> reporter: none whatsoever at this time. it is so early and hard to know what happened. it sounds like the victims were both males and females. and as you indicated, that was, it looks like a completely different situation than we saw at the other campus. >> janet, thank you. one student just spoke with kprc about what he saw on campus. here's how he describes it. >> i was on the other side of the campus where it first started at in the health and science building. i was right in that area. we heard things and movement and what not of people. and the officers detained the man. >> reporter: so what do you know happened? what have you heard? >> i didn't really see anything. it actually happening. i just saw human bodies, people being carried to the ambulance. >> reporter: people with multiple stab wounds, multiple victims. >> yes, sir. >> reporter: was anybody having an explanation for what was going on? >> no, sir. two of the girls that were

brought into our classroom said they were late to their class and the guy that started it all was the one, he was in the class with them and he said he had a box opener or something. and he ended up hurting two of the girls in that class. >> reporter: where were they cut? >> i have no idea. i think one said right in this area. >> reporter: anybody suggest a motive for this? >> no, sir. i have no idea. >> reporter: he was apparently tackled out here. do you know who that person is? >> no, sir. i heard students tackled him and i don't know the student that started all this. >> joining us now on the thrown is theran nichols. i don't know if you're familiar with that campus but if you are, could you describe the vowing area for us? what is it like? >> reporter: it is a rather large campus. the entire lone star system has about 100,000 students. each of its campuses is really well populated. like the report he mentioned, they're pretty open. there are some, it is kind of a residential area.

there are a lot of elementary schools in the area that were not locked down. they were searching through, making sure everything was okay. but it is going to be quite an understanding for police to secure the scene. they said it would be about a few hours to search the entire campus to make sure everything is clear. >> yeah. can you do a little more setting the scene in terms of how physically large this campus is, in terms of acres if you know? how many students would attend this sort of campus? and what sort of colleges, how is this serving the community? >> reporter: well, it is a community college. it is not a university. it has multiple campuses around the city for access. i wouldn't say it is more of a urban school. but it definitely is men for, not meant for but it has students who are working students, young kids, obviously. but the area around the school, i don't know the exact acreage of the school but i know that from the aerial shots of the campus itself, it would be at

least, it would be a very large campus. multiple buildings. lots of green space. large parking lots. very, very open. >> how close is this campus to the site of the campus in january? >> that is the north houston campus so it is quite a distance away from this campus. both the campuses are situations in areas that have multiple elementary schools in the area. residential areas. not urban or city at all. more on the outskirts in the suburbs. so it is definitely kind of a scary thought now that this happens at multiple schools. >> we know that our college officials did issue warnings, telling people to take shelter if they're on campus and strucking those not on campus to stay away which makes sense. do you know from your reporting, has that been echoed by the police? what is the latest in terms of instructions from law

enforcement? >> reporter: the latest we heard was from the harris county sheriff deputy thomas gilliland who said that they only have the one suspect. they believe it is one guy. and he is in custody. as you remember, the school had posted an alert on their website that said there were two men. one was at large and they were warning people in the area to stay indoors and to call police if they see anything. that obviously is not true. police officially say one guy, and he is in custody. but they are still working to secure the campus. >> let see if we can touch on the police response and some of the medical response. do you know how long it took police to arrive on the scene after they were initially called? and do we know what the status of these victims are? people in critical condition or stable or what they're doing at the hospitals? >> the report that we got very early on was that campus police were the first to arrest the suspect shortly after he was essentially tackled and detained in the parking lot when he was

trying to run away by students. and that happened, the initial report was around 11:15 central time this morning was when it all went down. we know that police were there. official police and sheriff's departments were there on the scene right away within five minutes. the campus police obviously has been stepped up since the shooting at the lone star campus in north houston in january. we do know that campus police were on the scene almost immediately. >> and what do we know about the actual events in where did they take place? how was the assailant able to hit so many victims before being tackled? when was he captured? what do we know in terms of those details? >> i can't speculate on the actual scene. i know from the witness statements that we've heard reported, it was a very chaotic scene. it started in the classroom and spilled out into the hallway. and it almost, it would seem that anybody who was in range of this guy was a potential target. and obviously from the weapon

that he was using, towed get close to everybody. the reports are that he was slashing at people's faces and upper bodies and necks. so he was able, obviously, to get out of the building that he was in and get tackled in the campus parking lot. but i manning that it was probably pretty chaotic scene with him attacking so many people in a close vicinity. >> i can't help but be curious. how big was this person if we happen to know? have we established whether or not he was a student there? >> we don't know if he was a student. we talked to a witness there who said they knew the, who the guy was. so we would suspect that since he was in a classroom, that it is a possibility he could have been a student. i can't say one way or the other. but he was described as a white male wearing shorts with curly hair. no size description. don't know if he was a big guy or not. but he definitely was able to continue his rampage long enough

to injure 14 people. 14, 15 people. >> theyran, what has been the response on campus in terms of students that you or the media have spoken to? >> reporter: well, they're all pretty in shock that we've talked to. and many obviously students were the ones who actually took down the guy in the first place. so we know that some students stepped up to try to stop him, obviously. it is pretty scary that most of the students obviously knew about the shooting on the other campus that that it was between two guys who are arguing. but it seems like that the, since that incident the school has ramped up its security. i know they've been doing a lot of drills and with the campus police being stepped up by the system, the students seem to be expressing an air of disbelief almost over this happening again. >> stay with us. janet shamlian is back with the

cyfair department. do you have us, janet? it looks like we've lost janet. do we have theran? >> reporter: i'm here now. i am with the cyfair volunteer fire department, robert oversees things here. he was on the scene immediately after this happened. what update can you give us right now? >> i can tell that you we transported 15 patients -- sorry, we treated 15 patients total. of the 15, three were treated on the scene and refused transport. four were taken via helicopter to herman downtown. two of the patients were taken by ground to herman downtown

with intermediate injuries and the rest were taken to north cypress hospital. >> what about the nature of the injuries? we're hearing that an exacto knife or a box cutter was used. >> when we treated the patients, there were injuries consistent with lacerations, cutting. >> reporter: you were there when the calls started coming in. what were the reports you were hearing? >> at our dispatch center located right down the street from the college, we received multiple phone calls as well as calls from the sheriff's department. >> reporter: what were people saying? >> i couldn't tell what you the dispatchers, they were receiving the calls. the nature of the calls. the reaction i was getting from our dispatchers, we immediately had resources. we have a fire station that is located on the campus. >> reporter: so you were here immediately then. >> yes. >> reporter: how was the suspect apprehended? >> you would have to talk with the law enforcement officer. i'm not sure about that. >> reporter: we understand the details are still developing and appreciate your type, robert

raza from the cyfair fire department. we'll continue to follow this from here. we now know 15 injuries. we don't know the nature of those critical injuries. we'll keep on top of it. >> thanks, janet. theran, back to you, if we have you. i'm wondering, i remember from the last altercation at the other lone star campus, a lot of parents came to the scene to check on their kids. have you heard similar reports of a lot of parents on the scene there? >> we haven't seen from the air, from the news conference, the police were very swift order to tell people to stay away after they locked down the campus. they were allowing obviously students to leave right away. i think the concern was there were more elementary schools in the close proximity to the campus where the shooting was than there were this one. there were six elementary schools here at this one that had some security concerns.

the other campus was obviously scarier with a gun instead of a knife. >> can we talk about the crime, general crime situation in this area? in the surrounding area? i know you used the word suburban to describe this campus. is this the situation where people are like, oh, my god, i'm shocked something happened or we do have a crime problem in this area and these things do happen occasionally. >> as with any large city, there is always a crime problem everywhere and there are certain parts of the city that have less crime than others. i would not be able to categorize the crime rate in the cypress area. it is a suburb. so it typically doesn't have a high, as high an instance of trouble like this than, say, inner city schools. nonetheless, it is still shocking to people wherever they are in houston simply because of the number of people that are hurt and the fact that he did not use a gun. and that it was a knife of some kind. >> absolutely. you mentioned, theran, that

there are elementary schools in the area. was there a lockdown? >> reporter: they had extra security person and he will police person that he will went to them to secure the campus to make sure there was not any problems but none of them were actually put on lockdown like the actual lone star campus was. >> do you know anything about protocol at this campus? it seems if they have the suspect in custody, the continued lockdown might be for some other reason. do you happen to have any idea of what they might be doing right now? >> reporter: well, even with the one suspect, they are still required to search and secure each classroom that had any people in it, obviously. with large campus like this, that will take a while. because they had the one person in custody and they believe he is the only suspect, that's why they were allowing students to leave. >> i'm curious about how we

played the mistake. how did they go from two suspects and whittled it down and said no, no, there is only one. >> our initial reports were that it was only one guy. we didn't hear about potentially a second suspect at large until we saw it posted on the lone star website. so i don't know where that miscommunication was. but after that, police came out in their first briefing earlier today and did say that it was just the one suspect and that he was in custody. >> and theran, where in relationship to this campus would the nearest hospital be? how far away would the victims have to be taken? would those being transported by helicopter presumably be going to the same place? >> i think that with the volunteer fire department spokesman, he said there were multiple cases taken to the local cypress hospital. the ones medevaced were taken to herman memorial in houston which was by helicopter flight less

than ten minutes. >> and theran, do you have any idea of whether or not knives or box cutters were prohibited from campus? >> reporter: i do not. like most college campuses, you're not allowed to carry any kind of weapon. but i would assume that concealing a utility knife or a box cutter would be a lot easier than concealing a handgun any idea of whether or not there are metal detectors at this campus in front of most of the doors or any knowledge of what the security is like on a day-to-day basis there? >> reporter: that i do not know. i know that the campus with the size that it is, and like your reporter had mentioned, it is very easy to drive up. there is no security check point. i would say, i don't know for sure. i'm not sure on any metal detectors. >> and do you know, you had mentioned there had been additional security drills put in place following the last shooting at the separate campus.

do you know the details? >> i don't know the specific plans. i remember at the time that the chancellor, a gentleman, i can't remember his name right now. they said they had been doing emergency practicing drills since the newtown shooting. and that week prior to the shooting in january they had run at least three emergency preparedness drills for active shooters. so since then, we do know that they had planned to increase security at all campuses. i do not know what to what extent. >> can you describe the actual area where this kurt? did you say it was outside of a building? >> the actual incident? >> yes. >> it started in a classroom and spilled out into a hallway. and i suspect that with the number of people that were hurt in the short amount of time, the the hallway was probably in between classes. so there were a lot of people in close proximity. and then after he fled, he was actually detained in the parking

lot outside of one of the buildings. most of the injuries i do believe occurred inside a building. >> okay. sheriff garcia and the senior vice chancellor now addressing the press. let's listen. >> he will be providing important details to today's incident. let me also say that i have with me the police chief of the lone star college police department. who is here along with his personnel in his assistant chief as well. i have the major, the patrol major who is also part of the response to the incident today. and then we have lieutenant nelson who is leading the investigation into the incident, today's incident. with the sheriff's office. to that end, let me say that at

11:12 a.m., we received a call at our 911 call center. the call was described as male on the loose, stabbing people. white male, black hat, black and white shirt. the call was received and dispatched shortly there after. we had five units, four deputies, one sergeant respond to the scene. along with obviously being the first responder on the scene was the lone star college police department. we were also supported by cy fair volunteer fire department. the ems. we were also supported by the department of public safety, texas rangers, as well as dps

air units, as well as houston police department air units. what we know at this point is that we have four victims that we know of. 14, my apologies. 14 victims. 14. 1-4. 14 victims that we know of. of the 14, two have refused treatment. of the 12, we do know that some have been transported to two different hospitals. cyfair hospital as well as memorial herman. we know of those at the hospital, two are in critical condition and four are in fair condition. as the victims were being taken

to the appropriate hospitals, four were life flighted at the early stages of this investigation. eight were transported via some form of ground transportation, whether ambulance or maybe personal vehicles. we don't know exactly on all eight. this is a current and ongoing active investigation. buildings are still being searched to confirm details that we have. evidence, 50io evidence has been reviewed and it provides us an indication that we have, that we can confirm at least one and only one suspect in this case. a suspect has been taken into

custody. a white male that we believe is approximately 21 years of age. and currently enrolled at lone star college system. we have recovered other evidence that is still currently being processed. the victims appeared to be, have received various injuries. we do not know exactly what type of weapon was used other than to say that it is at this point an unknown instrument. that we don't know whether a knife or some other type of instrument. so we don't know that yet. we do know, we have some evidence, it is being processed. the investigation is ongoing. the suspect is in custody. >> can you at least say if you found any type of weapon? >> well, describe what a weapon

can be. >> a firearm. >> no firearms. to that end, the investigation is still ongoing. we will not release any more details in regard to evidence that we have, that we believe we have acquired until it is all processed. now, let me ask dr. key, our partner in this incident, to provide some remarks. >> good afternoon. i am rand key with the lone star college system. let me first express our sincere concern about the students that were injured today. our thoughts are with them and their families at this point in time. this morning when the episode did occur, we immediately sent out an alert to shelter in place and lock down. that immediately took place. during that time, the buildings were monitored and once it was determined that they were safe ask secure, then a very orderly

evacuation of the campus did commence. in fact, that is almost concluded as you can see from the parking lots. the could go is closed for the remainder of today. we are scheduled to resume normal operations tomorrow. as sheriff garcia stated, i too would like to think those other responders that came, the texas rangers, the harris county sheriff's department and others who assisted in this matter. although our president was not on campus today, she was in constant communication with our command center and was right there with us the whole time. again, she was off campus. we'll continue to monitor the situation as the sheriff stated, it is an ongoing investigation so we are somewhat limited with what we can say. >> let me ask the help of the media on one important point. the school is receiving an inordinate number of calls from concerned family members, as you

would expect. we are asking your help to please communicate to students who were on campus, who have been evacuated, as dr. key mentioned, to please contact their family members and let them know they're okay. we're talking about 14 folks that are at the hospital being treated, or 12. so we need the media's help to communicate and ask any student on campus to please contact their family members and let them know they're okay. >> sheriff, there's a discrepancy in the numbers of injured. cy fair press conference said there were 15. three people refusing to be transported. you're saying 14. are we sure it is the 14 is correct? >> well, we are again, we just left the briefing. we've confirmed the numbers as we have them. i'm saying 14 with two that have refused treatment. >> do we have a motive in this?

>> it is an ongoing investigation. we don't know anything else. >> was the individual bullied? >> again, the injuries are, we don't know how to describe them other than they're injuries. some are injuries that would classify them to have critical or fair conditions at the hospital. so we will have more details as we get information from the medical staff. >> tell us something. >> it is an ongoing investigation. work with me on that. excuse me? >> lacerations or gunshots? >> were they slashed or punctured? >> we don't have those details yet. the suspect is in custody. whether the suspect was injured, we don't have any details. let me say this about that question though. one of, some of the details in the call slip did indicate that students or faculty were actively responding to work to

subdue this individual. so we're proud of those folks. we're glad no one else is injuredfully more severely than they are. again, he is in custody. an active investigation. >> how was he taken into custody? >> not by his own choice. >> a up in of people who came out said a lot of the victim were cut on their necks and faces. >> they very well may have been. again, we have collected evidence. we're holding on to that until we have effectively processed all the evidence collected. >> was he just randomly going around stabbing people from what you've been able to ascertain? >> we're going off the call slip. man on the loose. stabbing people. that's what we've got to work with. >> another incident at lone star college. >> it is not an indication other than some people will do some things that catch us all by surprise. what is imperative to understand is that lone star college police department was first on the scene.

the harris county sheriff's office was here soon there after with incredible support from dps, the police department, the cy fair police department, cy fair ems and many, many, many students are safe. >> it is a fluid scene. the buildings have different names. we're trying to figure all that out. it is very fluid. >> how many people are saying it is the students, that it was a student. he was tasered. >> he was taken into custody. that's all i can give you at this point. if you will, i will provide remarks in spanish. >> how many students? >> we're not releasing his name yet. >> can you give as you time frame as to exactly when the first alert went out? >> you've just been listening to an update from police on the stabbing at lone star xlut college in texas this afternoon.

we'll continue to follow developments for you. up next, howard fineman joins us as "the cycle" rolls on for tuesday, april 9th. all stations come over to mission a for a final go. this is for real this time. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked.

five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers. tens of thousands of dollars in hidden fees on their 401(k)s?! go to e-trade and roll over your old 401(k)s to a new e-trade retirement account. none of them charge annual fees and all of them offer low cost investments. e-trade. less for us. more for you. you know who you are. you can part a crowd, without saying a word... if you have yet to master the quiet sneeze... you stash tissues like a squirrel stashes nuts... well muddlers, muddle no more. try zyrtec®. it gives you powerful allergy relief. and zyrtec® is different than claritin® because zyrtec® starts working at hour one on the first day you take it.

claritin® doesn't start working until hour three. zyrtec®. love the air. claritin® doesn't start working until hour three. welcnew york state, where cutting taxes for families and businesses is our business. we've reduced taxes and lowered costs to save businesses more than two billion dollars to grow jobs, cut middle class income taxes to the lowest rate in sixty years, and we're creating tax free zones for business startups. the new new york is working creating tens of thousands of new businesses, and we're just getting started.

to grow or start your business visit thenewny.com the house and the senate are back in action. on the docket, the budget, immigration and of course, guns. president obama unveils his already leaked budget proposal tomorrow before making his pitch to senate republicans over dinner. nothing like a little free food to quell the critics. the senate is setting pace for thursday on gun control legislation and a whole package of reform. senators toomey and manchin are working on background checks. some republicans promise to prevent a vote. they are being lobbied by the 11 newtown family members president obama brought with him to d.c. after monday's rally at the university of hartford. >> they're saying they'll do everything they can to even prevent any votes on these

provisions. they're saying, your opinion doesn't matter. that's not right. that is not right. >> we need a vote. if our democracy is working the way it is supposed to, and 90% of the american people agree on something, in the wake of a tragedy, you would think this would not be a heavy lift. >> just last hour, vice president biden pick up the baton in washington. >> the tragedy that traumatized a nation and caught the attention of the entire world and after all the thinking and the debate and discussion with overwhelming majorities of the american people thinking the proposal the president put forward makes absolute sense, the climax of this tragedy could be, we're not even going to get a vote? >> and finally, on the immigration front, the gang of eight is nearing a compromise to

strengthen border security, create a new guest worker program and a path to citizenship. just like six years ago, critics are trying to derail it saying reform will hurt the economy more than help it. our friend howard fineman is back. how are you doing? >> hi, good. >> i want to start with the budget which we'll hear more about tomorrow. but the thing keeps moving to the right. even coming out of the white house as you know. robert greenstein from the center for budget of policy priorities had an important point. he said if the new obama budget is one poll and the republican no tax deep spending cut position is the other poll, and this turns out to be a halfway point in this compromise, the result is going to ask obama to accept an outcome well to the right of boehner's offer in december. jerred bernstein responded. being a former economist in the administration saying, look, this is a compromised position which must not be taken as a new poll staking out one side in the

debate. it must be taken as what it is. a compromise between existing poles. so howard fineman, is tomorrow's budget from the president just a final compromise? >> i'm trying to remember where those poles are positioned. i think that jared bernstein is wrong in this case and i think he is a very smart guy. he is an economist though. while he might know a lot about politics, i think the president's budget is realistically basically the perimeter of realistic democratic proposals. and as such, i think it is off the mark. not only as a piece of political strategy but as a piece of economics as well. the statistics over the weekend about the work force, the fact that we now have the lowest work force participation rate since 1979 should indicate to some people that there should be more in this budget in terms of

trying to spur job growth than there is. >> let's talk about immigration. there is a lot of talk about marco rubio having to, quote, walk a fine line between making good on his promise for immigration reform and pleasing the tea party wing. we can put up a couple of headlines that capitalize on that theme showing there is no premium on originaliality in the press. does he really have to walk a fine line? let's move forward. >> or double down. >> let's move forward two years down the road when and if he decides to launch a campaign to become president of the united states. doesn't he benefit from a primary full of gop candidates? all whining angrily about how soft he was on immigration? given the new demography and the new realities republicans are trying to deal with and the terrible messaging they've been doing on this issue? >> yes, you're right.

next question. no. >> i love when that happens. we're kindred here. >> i hope we don't have a fine line headline on the "huffington post." i think you're right. i think he is being too careful by half here. maybe he wants the theatrics of being brought into it. that is fine. that won't hurt him. i think he benefits from a pretty strong stand on immigration. after all, if he runs, assuming he runs and everybody does assume it and i do, too, he will be running as a new generation republican. he will be running on youth as well as his hispanic background. and he can say, look, i'm a younger generation. these old guys, these old people who think old think republicanism don't understand the opportunity that we have here. i do, this is a gateway issue. if we're not right on this, nobody will listen to us on anything else. i'm the way forward.

>> if he doesn't encourage it, he can put some distance. >> having covered politics here for a long time. if you use the word, if he has the courage, that's not in great supply in washington. >> what does that say right there. marco rubio, immigration push, fine line. >> too late, howard. >> well, and on the rubio thing, he has already planted his flag on this issue. he might as well own it at this point. i wanted to shift to the gun debate. ari mentioned in the lead, i believe it is 13 republican senators now planning a filibuster of any sort of gun restriction legislation. john mccain was asked about this tactic over the weekend. let's take a listen. >> i don't understand it. the purpose of the united states senate is to debate and to vote and to let the people know where we stand. >> so you would encourage

republicans. >> i would not only encourage it. i don't understand it. what are we afraid of? >> so what are they afraid of? is this a smart tactic from that you wills to not even allow debate? not allow a vote? >> well, first of all, i think the emerging consensus on the hill is that there probably are enough votes from all the democrats, almost all democrats, and seven or eight republicans to get over the initial hump and to get the 60 votes necessary to at least begin debate on what is now the sort of reid/schumer bill which call for universal background checks and record keeping of people who buy guns. they can probably get over the hump to get that started. although there is no certainty they can shut off the debate. it is really amazing to watch. the president up there in

connecticut basically pleading, putting all the prestige of the presidency on the line. starting a chant. we want a vote. we want a vote. as though as he college protester, trying to get even a vote on anything in the congress. i think there will be a vote on something. i don't know what. but i think the politics of this are changing very rapidly. and for real. yes, the nra has a tremendous amount of residual clout in american politics. i think with michael bloomberg's money and more organization on the pro gun control side, you're going to see the same kind of score keeping and vendetta setting that you've seen with the nra on the other side. so ironically, the result of all this may not be new gun legislation at all this month or this year. but it may make it a very highly politicized and more even battle in 2014 for senate seats and

house seats. >> i surely hope there is a vote. make people put their flag down and say this is where i stand. but of course, rand paul and a group of other senators are saying we will filibuster any reform. i think the democrats should make them do it. make them do a talking filibuster and make them stand in front of america and say, we are here to block the legislation that most americans say they want. don't you think that would be a good idea for the dems? >> no. i think what the democrats want is any kind of recorded vote that they can then use for political purposes. i think they're trying to turn the nra's tactics and politics on its head. sure in the knowledge that 90% of the american people, at least according to, i think it was the quinnipiac poll, 90%, said the american people are in favor of universal background checks. the thing that's holding people up is this notion of a gun registry. that if you write down gun purchases, keep a central file of them, that that is a prelude

to, as they say in the second amendment movement, taking up the guns. i think that is a paranoid fear but it is a very real one at the heart of the nra movement. >> but you're sort of diving right into the policy of it which is important. i think part of the question is getting it, whether we, in this country will look at this debate as something that involved the democratic process or not. the nra has moved from trying to win these fights. they had a big win on the lawful commerce and arms act in getting immune for manufacturers. they won that thing. and now they've moved from winning thing to trying to censor and distort. part of the question is, can you put a big question on the floor, welcome the filibuster. not only to prove a point but to keep the senate open all night for as long as it takes until you break the filibuster. >> well, i don't know that you can break it. but i think it is one tactic to consider. as a reporter, i'm trying to report what i hear is likely to be happening on the hill. and i do think that the

democratic leadership and the president want a vote. they want some kind of vote. they want to defeat the initial filibuster so they can try to get votes if at all possible. that's really their aim here. i think they view this as the beginning of a process that may take several years. and i think they've decided that the nra in the country doesn't have the upper hand anymore. if the progressive forces do the same kind of organizational work that they did to get barack obama elected president, that they can turn the day here. it is not going to be easy but for better or worse, this is sort of the way the congress works right now. it barely works at all. but it only moves with these massive grassroots movements. it is like the interconnective tissue of our politics has totally atrophied and it is only with this massive grassroots effort that you can get anything done on the hill. >> that's a great point. you've agreed with s.e., you've

disagreed with toure and you're going to work on the fine line cliches. >> we'll see you around, howard. >> okay, bye. up next, do women make better lawmakers than men? some surprising findings from a new study. rahhhhhh! when i'm hungry, my tummy growls. rrrrrrrrrrrr! when i'm hungry, i feel like i want to faint. this is my hungry monster. one in six americans struggle with hunger every single day. if i could stop hunger, i would definitely do it. [ male announcer ] let's growl back at hunger. stock up on select general mills groceries at walmart's low prices between april 1st and 30th and you'll be contributing to food banks in your own community. join us in creating the biggest growl ever. ♪ join us in creating the biggest growl ever. what that's great. it won't take long, will it? no. okay. this, won't take long will it? no, not at all. how many of these can we do on our budget? more than you think.

that didn't take very long, did it? this spring, dig in and save. that's nice. post it. already did. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. dig in and save with miracle-gro potting mix, a special buy at two bags for just $10. all of a sudden, i was just wringing wet from head to toe. boom. heart attack. i'm a nurse and a care giver. never once did i consider that i might be having a heart attack. it can happen to anyone at any time. the doctor recommends bayer aspirin to keep this from happening to me again. [ male announcer ] aspirin is not appropriate for everyone, so be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. it's working. six years and counting. know the symptoms. talk to your doctor.

know the symptoms. an intense burning sensation i woke up with this horrible rash on my right side. like somebody had set it on fire. and the doctor said, cindie, you have shingles. he said, you had chickenpox when you were a little girl... i said, yes, i did. i don't think anybody ever thinks they're going to get shingles. but it happened to me. for more of the inside story, visit shinglesinfo.com

our next guest tracked every

bill sponsored in the u.s. congress since 1973. something steve kornacki does for fun and he found that men have dominated the cap. males are twice as likely to have their bill passed in congress. no surprise there. but women, especially in the minority parties have in many ways been more effective members of congress. men, they say, ten toward polarizing partisan stance. women, partially due to their clout, reach across the aisle making them better at keeping their bills alive. in some ways, making they will flat out better at their jobs. more evidence that virginia screwed up when they did not elect krystal ball to congress. joining us now, one of the people behind that exhaustive research, political scientist who has work, when are women more effective lawmakers than men. welcome, craig. >> thanks for having me on the show. >> i like your polarized party differences hypothesis.

you're saying when the parties are more polarized, both majority and minority party women will be more effective than males. in the situation that we're in now, when there is more polarization between the parties, minority party women are more effective and majority party women are not any more effective. explain the hypothesis and why it is so. >> let me give you a little background. we check any bill that any member of the house of representatives sponsored from 1973 to the prep. 140,000 bills. and we weighted them in terms of how important they were. reform on social security being more weighty than renaming the post office. we gave every member a score. we anlized the scores and we found the obvious things. it helps to be in the majority party. it helps to be a committee chair. seniority is important. controlling for all those factors, we found on average women arer month effective than

men in congress. we dug down deeper and found that much of that effect is we will in the minority party. where they continue to push wor lines, advance their agendas, and get things done. and men tend toward a more obstructionist role at that point. true for democrats. true for republicans. true for the past 40 years. >> well, craig, let's take a little trip in to our imaginations. let's say that we had a congress and a house and a senate that were 50% male, 50% female. >> i like it. >> based on your research, how would it be different? >> so if that happened through a natural process, like electing more women to congress -- >> yes. >> -- the initial reaction would be pretty slow because our finding is congress still a very seniority-oriented institution, most of those women wouldn't move up into subcommittee chairs, to committee shachair rs quickly.

for example, we tracked across the past 40 years and committee chairs go, of course, to members of the majority party. 10% of men in the majority party get a me chair and 2% of women in the majority party. >> wow. >> it's going to take some time as well as those numbers to switch. >> craig, i thought the study was really fascinating and you obviously control for a lot of variables. but i wanted to push you on the operating premise of what makes for effective legislators. because you actually define that as saying we explicitly define legislative effectiveness as the advancement of a member's agenda item through the legislative process into law." that sounds like a reasonable approach to me, but i think it also tracks more closely with what progressives view as the role of congress. which is to pass a lot of laws. there are clearly many members of the republican party and people around the country who think that what they want out of their representative is to pass less laws and have less government action in spending. so does that get addressed anywhere in your study? or is that just sort of

something we have to live with in terms of the frame you have? >> sure. we would definitely care about that. and so we did track how many bills are sponsored by republicans, how many by democrats and answer is the same. >> no, that's not -- >> the different bills -- >> that's not the question. the question is, does it go toward a progressive view of government to define efficacy as passing more bills? what do you say to a republican who says i deliberately didn't pass as many bills? >> i would say then why did you sponsor so many bills because they're sponsoring at the same rate as democrats are. and trying to get things done, it's just a different set of priorities. >> craig, you know, i can think of some notable counters to your argument. one just passed away, margaret thatcher was an iconoclast and revolutionary. but far from gaining consensus, she earned a lot of criticism and in fact she was eventually pushed out by her own party. it's hard to remember now that

hillary clinton has been -- but there was a time when she actually had a hard time making some friends both on her side on the aisle and across the aisle. so maybe is this something that really only applies to women who aren't in leadership or high-profile positions? >> it's interesting because obviously these are general tendencies and we could track what a couple prominent women in congress did. according to our scores, the highest performing woman was lenore sullivan. we might not remember her, but a long serving congresswoman right up through the 19 70s. her view was it was important to have a women's perspective in congress, but upon reaching there, she was advocating that women, you know, go with the flow, act like men. and if we follow that along to nancy pelosi, she wasn't introducing very much at all when she was in the minority party. she doesn't match our data well. in the majority party, not really working across party lines.

embracing the hyperpartisanship that we see now. so there are those examples, definitely, along the way. >> leaning in, it looks like. >> right. >> craig, volden, thank you very much. up next -- >> thanks for having me. >> -- a serious lesson s.e. learned while visiting her alma mater. [ female announcer ] you walk into your laundry room and it just hits you! that nasty odor coming from your washer. say farewell to the smell with tide washing machine cleaner. it goes straight to the source of the stink to lift odor-causing residues off your washer's drum. tide washing machine cleaner.

at a hertz expressrent kiosk, you can rent a car without a reservation... and without a line. now that's a fast car. it's just another way you'll be traveling at the speed of hertz. we replaced people with a machine.r, what? customers didn't like it. so why do banks do it?

hello? hello?! if your bank doesn't let you talk to a real person 24/7, you need an ally. hello? ally bank. introducing chase liquid. card hassles? your

the reloadable card that's easy to activate and can be used right away. plus, you can load cash or checks at any chase depositfriendly atm and checks right from your smartphone. get rid of prepaid problems. get chase liquid. hey. yo. whassup. guten tag. greetings earthlings. how you doin'? hola. sup. yello. howdy. what's crackalackin? it is great we express ourselves differently. if we were all the same, life would be boring. so get to know people who aren't like you. you'll appreciate what makes us different. the more you know. this past weekend i was invited to speak at my alma mater, cornell university, an honor i enjoyed very much. as i nostalgically visited, the

school was abuzz about an incident when a cornell wrestler allegedly sexually assaulted another student sleeping over her girlfriend's house. she woke at 4:45 in the morning to find a man she didn't know on top of her. it was hardly an isolated incident. last september on one night three separate incidents of sexual assault or harassment were reported. despite fox news host's idea that rape still happens on college campuses, of course it does. few schools have been unscathed by this. i talked to cornell students about it this weekend. some blamed greek life for a culture of misogyny. oathers are beknowned the out of date blue light phones and touted security system that allows students to call for help only between the hours of 9:00 p.m. and 3:00 a.m. sometimes students wait 30 minutes for an escort to arrive. another student got to the real problem. the administration was much more interested in victim advocacy, crisis centers and hot lines than preventative solutions. former student kate conway in a

blog post last year put it this way. "the campus was perfectly happy to provide the women's resource center with plenty of delegated funds to host speakers and perform the vagina monologues but when it came to implementing cohesive long-term improvements we continually met logistical opposition from higher ups." always resourceful, some students tried to solve the problem themselves. for one of their courses, three cornellians developed a pepper spray canister fitted with a camera that takes a photo of the attacker while it sprays him. unfortunately cornell does not currently permit students to carry pepper spray so this phenomenal innovation will not be put to use on campus. that's more than just ironic, it's the point, college is a strange bubble where women are told to surrender their safety to a group of administrators, campus security guards and blue light phones. they are uniformly disarmed, strips of their rights to protect themselves and told to button up their blouses, walk in groups and scream for help. in servicing political aversions to self-protection, the college

culture surrounding rape has become one of shameful acceptan acceptance. sexual assault is an inevitabili inevitability. it's merely dealt with when and if a young woman has the courage to report it. most colleges aren't actually bubbles. students aren't spared from the realities of life. they have bills to pay, many of them work and must navigate a scary world where bad people do bad things to good people. at least in the real world, we give good people the ability to defend themselves. i love cornell very much, and it pains me to expose this ugly secret, but if you talk to students, it isn't a secret at all. and it's certainly not just a cornell problem. rape has become a fact of college life across the country. either colleges need to be the bubble they purport to be and learn how to protect their communities better or students need to take their safety back from complacent politically correct ineffective bureaucrats who simply cannot protect them. okay. that does it for "the cycle qup "m