all right. why are you awake? your answers? >> we have lots today. dreamer tweets in, i'm awake to watch the to watch the sunrise with someone special. >> ah! i can guarantee you that guy, if he is telling the truth, his life is a heck of a lot more romantic than everybody in this room! all right. thanks, dan. "morning joe" live from washington, d.c. and happy belated birthday to joe right now. ♪ >> a former republican congressman in florida is now a talk show host and he is very popular. he has a program called "morning joe." here's what "morning joe" has reported as having said. scarborough tears into gop filibuster on gun bill and says, i quote, is anybody awake in my party?

>> well, there goes the primary election. >> everybody is awake now, joe! >> on set with us is msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee michael steele and senior political editor and white house correspondent for the huffing post sam stein and nbc washington correspondent kelly o'donnell. >> i hope i'm on tomorrow morning because this is something to talk about. >> it's going to be hard to explain in the next primary. the gun showdown is beginning in earnest now. the senate will consider whether or not to debate and a threat to filibuster the bill by a group of conservatives is losing stream. several republicans and democrats are knocking down the idea saying the measure deserves

an up and down vote one way or another. that was the message being pushed by lawmakers yesterday by relatives of some of those who lost children in the newtown shooting and it was repeated again by vice president joe biden at the white house yesterday. >> now it's time for every man and woman in the senate to stand up and say, yea or nay, i'm for or i'm against. the tragedy that traumatized the nation and caught the attention of the entire world and the thinking and debate with the overwhelming majority of the american people and thinking the proposal the president put forward made absolute sense. the climax of this tragedy could be we are not even going to get a vote? imagine how this makes us look. it's time to stand up. it's time for these guys to stand up and be counted. stand up so they can not only look the nra in the eye, people say what am i going to say to the nra?

i got some question for you. what are you going to say to those parents? look them in the eye and tell them you concluded there is nothing you can do? we have an obligation to try. >> you know, republicans and democrats together did look a lot of those parents in the eye and they decided that they deserved a vote up and down. in the future, the gun resolution rests in the hands of democrat joe manchin and republican pat toomey. they are working to reach a deal on background checks could replace the original wording in other legislation in an effort to gain more support from conservativ conservatives. according to "the new york times" and i'll i tell you what a lot of sources we all talked to last night, the potential amendment wouldn't require family members to trans -- in transferring guns to submit to these background checks and the measure would ensure that records would not be compiled

into any national registry. has is a must for conservatives. that is a must for republicans and that is something that pat toomey and other republicans on the hill with going to get. they are set to hold a press conference this morning at 11:00 a.m. and recent polling shows roughly 90% of the americans support the expanded background checks. kelly, the outlines of the deal you've been hearing about doesn't require family members, neighbors, individual sales to have these background checks, but it closes two huge loopholes. >> internet gun sales and gun shows. one of the biggest complaints that we heard from conservatives would be the sort of the anecdote you got two neighbors who live 40 miles from town in rural america and they want to swap shotguns or some other firearm. do they have to get in the car and drive and register? and if it's brother-to-brother and people were saying that is just adding a burden of regulation that doesn't make sense. they were able to work through

this and it has been tedious, difficult work. lots of phone calls and lots of personal meetings and staffers were going way into the night and maybe some even still working now getting ready for this morning turning an idea in principle into some of the legislative language. it is a real breakthrough. joe manchin has the best rating you can get from the nra and so does pat toomey from a blue state line pennsylvania. they give cover. not only does it make a lot of sense with people but give a lot of cover. i was spending time yesterday with johnny isaacson. he said while he disagrees on some things he would not be one of those to say filibuster. he said the issue of guns are well known in this country and no reason to hold up a vote and begin the debate and get it going. that is important because some of the more conservatives who want this filibuster when you've got the johnny isaacsons of the

party saying it's not a good idea that changes the dynamic. >> we have been hearing the same thing from lindsey graham and others don't filibuster this deal. sam stein, a lot of liberals will not be pleased that these individual transfers aren't in there but, at the same time, a lot of gun control advocates will say if we close the gun show loophole, if we close the international sales loophole and a lot of gun shop owners say the same thing, then that's a good thing. >> i think you're right there is griping over the exemptions carved out but at the end day i think they will vote yet. when you look at the context of this if you had said a year ago you can have a bill that will close the gun show loopholes people would be doing cartwheels and never seem conceivable. now a massive tragedy happened in the interim and shouldn't have taken that to get to this

point about but it did and people say we should go further. at this juncture progress is probably much more valuable to them assault ban weapons and [ inaudible ] and willing to take it because they know it is a first step towards something they want to do gradual. >> gradual. michael steele, "wall street journal" even this morning is saying don't filibuster this deal. again, must tell you, i haven't run into many republicans that are against background checks for criminals. in fact, i had a friend in the party last night, he's got a quote, assault weapon. and he is a huge hunter. of course he came in and was needling me, dianne feinstein, you liberal. i laughed. i said, we are talking about right now, all we are talking about is background checks for criminals, background checks for people with mental health issues

that could be violent. he just said without thinking, oh, i'm for that. >> of course! >> 90% of americans are for that. >> that is the sweet spot. that is the common sense of this whole debate which, unfortunately, and i think lindsey graham and john mccain figured out very early on that that is what the sweet spot was. this idea of moving to filibuster and watching the number grow. that was the interesting thing that i thought really began to concern a lot of members in the senate and conservatives throughout. even conservatives around the country who, like your friend, say, hey, that makes sense, that this number was beginning to grow from 4 to 8 to 13 and i think now, you'll see that peel back a little bit. the bill will get to the floor and you'll have this conversation. i had someone say to me, well, i don't see what the holdup is with having exchange between you and sam have to be registered. if i -- if you were to sell your

car to sam, you would have to register, he would have to register the car. the car isn't protect under the second amendment of the constitution, we understand that. i think it boils down to some of the remaining hess taitancy in quarters of the country what does this mean learning term. i think the secretary point yont up there having the government eventually using this information however it's acquired and to what degree or extent it exists against gun owners down the road is still out there a little bit. >> that is a concern. and that is exactly what the conservatives on the hill right now are making sure is taken care of, that you aren't going to be able to set up a gun registry. of course, sam, we have had background checks before. >> this is confusing. they kept saying a new background check will be unconstitutional. if the new one is -- they -- >> if the new one is going to

lead naturally to a gun registry, why get the old one? >> exactly. but lawmakers have taken this consideration into hand there as i understand it going to say there will be no federal database of firearm purchases or sales so there will not be a registry. one thing i'll add on the filibuster thing i think was a silly political maneuver from republicans because it set them up to look insensitive in some respects they didn't wait until the final deal was done. they say we filibuster something we have not yet read. that seemed to me a little bit curious. >> not the brightest bulbs when it comes to messaging on these hot button issues whether it's gun or gay marriage or other issues coming down the pike. >> let's be honest. mike lee or ted cruz will not be harmed by having stood up for a filibuster in their home state. >> it's also, kelly, is it not, look all of those names up there. it's good for everybody politically in their own home

state and good for mitch mcconnell who is up in 2014. he has to prove he is a conservative for a tea party action and fending off primary challenges and it cost him absolutely nothing. i bet before he said it he knew what was coming around the pike. >> it's a snapshot of them carving out their own stand for their own personal political purposes and representing views in their home states and the forces, kind of the wave of this moves beyond it and if there is a bill ooecheventually people s acceptable they have their win. >> that is the friction between, michael steele, when i'm talking to republicans here, i'm talking to our party. our party that keeps losing presidential elections and i keep talking about what works in bucks county, pennsylvania and in the i-4 corridor and what works in all of these swing areas. of course, individually what works there and this is the rub, does not work for mitch

mcconnell in a republican primary in kentucky. >> exactly. >> when i blast my party, sometimes, you know, i'm blasting from 30,000 feet and i'm talking with winning general elections in presidential years, far different than being mitch mcconnell and trying to win a republican primary in an off year and it's a balancing act. >> it is a balancing act, joe. >> we haven't balanced it well in the past. but this is a great example. i think the party looks like they are starting to balance individual needs and the good of the party and, more importantly, of course, the good of the country as a whole. >> i agree with you a thousand percent there. i think the other takeaway for me particularly what you said recently and more specifically yesterday on the subject it's not even just about presidential elections any more. it's also now about congressional races. you've got a number of folks up there that are looking at congressional seats down the road as well and redistricting helps the party a lot but voters

are a quirky lot. just because you've redistricted them over here or there doesn't necessarily tell you how they will vote on something that really matters to them and this really matters to voters and i believe you were screaming yesterday. >> i said it -- it was a silent scream. >> a silent scream. >> i was very quiet when i said it. but i almost whispered is anybody awake? >> is anybody awake? >> but they are, though. you look at pat toomey in pennsylvania, a republican. >> he's a case study in this. he has the best -- they really are and their prominence here is interesting. they have been quiet how they have handled that and that is effective and they have used personal relationships. toomey has as good a record you can have on the fiscal side of the conservatism. >> talk about him all of the time. he and tomcoburn.

they have been right. pat toomey going out there sends a very strong message. >> isn't it interesting those two were doing the primary negotiations on this? it seems like they feel very secure in their standing as conservatives and don't think they will ever be questioned in their reputation within the party and that allows them to do -- >> manchin is a democrat. >> coburn. >> oh, i'm sorry. >> i was complimentary of pat toomey. i was thrilled when he won pennsylvania and that is the type of candidate i keep talking about on this show. a guy who is conservative fiscally, moderate temperamentally but let's say this is good for pat toomey. he needs to get there. tom coburn from oklahoma, i'm good here. i'm going to do what may not be

politically popular but -- >> what i like about it you didn't need a gang of 40 to get it done. you had two guys -- >> butware on the doorstep. could still fall apart. >> good caution. >> hope springs eternal and joe will silently scream if that happens. you didn't need a gang of 40 to get it done. two guys from the right side of the aisle and left side of the aisle and got together and fiting figured out the common sense core of this thing and crafted something and we will see, as you said, how it all plays out. but hopefully it opens up a new door how we get stuff done in this town. >> i will say this. >> the leadership, they are giving breathing room here and that helps too. >> dianne feinstein is giving breathing room but never would have happened without joe manchin. from the beginning he has been a champion and shepherding this through and he went to his own party. joe, i think, had as much trouble with his own party saying we are not going to get

everything we want. you all are going to have to -- you know, he went to joe biden. he went to other people but joe manchin went to his own party and said you're not going to get everything you want here and had to explain the realities of this situation. you're right, sam. it may not happen but if any legislation passes on background checks for criminals, background checks for those with serious mental challenges, they should call it the manchin bill because joe manchin is the guy that has really made a huge difference on the hill. tomorrow, "morning joe" is going to be sitting down for an exclusive round table discussion with vice president joe biden. another joe who has done a lot on this, to reduce gun violence. you can tweet your questions for vice president biden using the #vp on mj. i know that he's feeling probably pretty darn good that criminals are not going to be

able to buy guns on the internet. this is huge too. we are going to go into another issue, though. kelly o'donnell, this is huge. it's one of the few times where 90/10 issue may just be the most important thing. because even bloomberg's people, some of feinstein's people, will say assault weapons and the high capacity magazines, yes, we really want that, but that's more symbolic than background checks which will stop all of the handgun, you know, a lot of the handgun deaths in chicago, will stop a lot of the gun -- you know, gun trafficking bills. the more popular bills actually seem to be, in this case, not cop-outs but the ones that are actually going to stop the killings more. >> there has been so relatively less attention to the other aspects which will get debated. the trafficking piece.

looking at the mental health issues and reinforcement for school safety. other things in this legislation that could probably pass that might have meaningful difference. i think lawmakers vr strugghave struggling if they do something, box check, we are moving on now. something happened. but will it make a difference? one of the things they have been trying to do is find a way to at least be able to make a measurable difference. everybody knows the violent culture and other forces have a much harder time to become something you can legislate. that will still be an argument but some of what they have been doing, very interesting. when people say congress can't get something done, watch what happens here. this is legislating at its best. >> if this happens and immigration happens. i will say, though. i have no problem talking to my republican friends. i'm going to talk to my democratic friends too. i think the democrats have failed miserably in taking on hollywood. michael steele, i don't think they have had the courage to take on their biggest

contributors. they have saluted me for having the courage to take on my friends at the nra and my friends on the right. great job, joe, great courage. we need background checks for criminals. way to go, joe, you're great. why don't you say something to hollywood? why don't you say something to people making billions of dollars making video games where you shoot down, you murder, you maul a thousand people a day? the sort of things that lanza did every day in his basement, becoming more and more warped. more and more twisted. more and more desensitized. democrats have had a blind spot here. they have lacked the moral courage to take on hollywood. they need to do it. this debate is not over. it is not over. we are talking about background checks. i hope we can pass that. >> is that a 90/10 issue? does the public believe there is too much violence in videos and movies? >> the democrats haven't had the guts to it on. >> feinstein said something

briefly. >> she did. she did. i salute her for saying that. >> the thing is -- the question is what do you do about whatever -- the majority of people see as a problem which is the violence in video games and movies. one of the things talked about recently is find more money how the brain absorbs those things and what aesk it has on the brain. the problem is that no one spends money these days. that is one of the solutions basically off the table because it could cost something. i agree with you. i think bizarre that hasn't been a part of the conversation because in every previous gun control discussion we have had, that's always been an element -- >> that moment may be coming. >> i hope it is the mental health aspect of this. has far reaching, i think, import beyond guns. yesterday, we had the attack by the student on the campus. 14 of his classmates stabbed at a community college. i've always dreamed of stabbing people. what is it that motivates that?

is it something that, you know, he is getting from the society or is it something from other way? i think the mental health piece of this becomes each more important to our point, joe. >> michael, boy, we said at the beginning, joe manchin and i especially got to talk about guns and you got to talk about video games and mental health. i can't tell you what is the most important. i will say this, though. i think this will shock a lot of people. the least important part of those three as far as reducing gun violence are guns. i know that's going to shock a lot of people that i say that. >> you're right. >> but it is the truth. guns are the least important part of those three. guns is an important part of those three but we have 300 million guns out there in slayings right now. 300 million. why are we starting to see the shootings that we are seeing? well, the guns are out there. the guns have always been out there. we have a rising health care, mental health care epidemic especially among young men. >> yep. >> it is stunning. >> terrifying.

>> i have seen it up close because i've got two boys in their early 20s and i have seen their friends, kids that i saw growing up from kindergarten on. it is terrifying. the mental health crisis is one crisis. we have the most medicated young generation in the history of mankind. we have so many new disorders out there. so many people being diagnosed with disorders. and you layer on top of that violent video games and people seeing images of thousands of people being gunned down. you put that into a toxic mix. i'm not saying anything new. i've been saying this all along. >> starts to play in the psyche. >> as "the wall street journal" said in an op-ed editorial years ago not about this subject but another, talking about people without guardrails. people without the built-in guardrails that most of us have are more immune so this and that is what we have to worry about

this. >> other societies have these video games. they don't have crime -- sorry, rate of violence. the medication thick is an issue overmedicated society but these moves exist not in a vacuum. and these games are not in a vacuum. other societies have them. >> they don't have 300 millions gun out there. >> that is a problem. >> that is a huge problem. i'm just saying in america right now, the reason why we're seeing these mass killings that we have seen, especially over the past couple of years, of the three, violence in culture, mental health challenges and guns. i personally think that guns are the number three challenge. obviously, i think it's a serious enough challenge that i'd risk the possibility of a political future if i run again. i'm going to have to explain why i think this is so important to republicans. and if i do that, i'll explain it and i'll carry the day.

but that doesn't mean democrats get a free pass on violence in our culture and they have not shown courage. i salute dianne feinstein and did it the day she talked about it also this mental health challenge is so much more insidious. it is going to be so much harder to tackle than just putting pressure on a video game industry or a movie maker. coming up next on "morning joe," we are going to be talking to paul ryan. he is going to off his first take on the president's budget plan which officially be relieved tomorrow. a busy day in washington. also new york senator kirsten ji gillibrand will join us and "meet the press" moderator david gregory and then dee dee myers. bill, yesterday in washington, d.c., the weather was unbelievable.

>> that was my gift. >> perfect! it's about time you gave me a gift like that! but, thank you, bill. >> it was beautiful. plus the cherry blossoms peaked on your birthday, joe. beautiful weather in d.c. today but you may need the air-conditioner later today. d.c. has a legitimate chance of hitting 90 degrees today for the first time. the humidity will be very low so not that uncomfortable. we should be mid-80s from baltimore to philadelphia. a little bit cooler to the north. these were yesterday's highs and show what we are dealing with today. the forecast 90 in democrat c. and cooler from new york city to new england and more clouds around and showers. especially cooler up there around boston. the big storm in the middle of the country, i mean, this is just a crazy day of extremes. we have a temperature in the single digits in denver while we're at 70 degrees and summer-like in st. louis and the temperature in areas of texas has dropped about 50 to 60 degrees since yesterday. so we are not going to deal too much with tornadoes. we didn't have much last night and not have more today but we will have a lot more hail storms

out there, especially with the cold air. we had a big hail storm in omaha, nebraska, yesterday and show you the pictures later during "morning joe" and continue to watch the storms. oklahoma city up to kansas city. that is where the stormy weather will be. as far as the snow goes, rapid city, south dakota, had 22 inches of snow yesterday, shattering their all-time record for april and i think we have more snow tonight, especially from sioux falls to minneapolis up to a foot of snow tomorrow morning in the twin cities. we leave you with a shot there of washington, d.c. beautiful sunrise under way. shorts and t-shirts if you can get away with it! you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. i know what you're thinking...

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take a look at our morning papers. kelly? >> the charlotte observer a new report suggests the u.s. is using drone strikes to kill more than just top level al qaeda leaders. mcclatchy newspaper found the obama administration has targeted and killed hundreds of low level and afghan and paecket militants many of whom had had no parent al qaeda affiliation. >> the florida union -- times union. pensacola own blue angels the navy famous squadron of aerial demonstrators will be grounded the rest of the year. one-third of the active duty combat planes will be grounded because of cuts. >> big changes to the national

spelling bee. first time in 86 years not only will the contestants have to spell their words correctly if that is not hard enough they have to know their definition as well. vocabulary portion is only a part of the early rounds and not a part of the televised final rounds. ouch! >> from our business section in "the wall street journal" yahoo! has and apple reportedly in talks to increase yahoo' presence on smart ceremonies. they are mulling possible deals to get more content from yahoo! news and how they could provide more search results so apple can rely less on google. >> this will make us feel good. "the washington post." the national cherry blossom festival is in full swing in our nation's capital. the blossoms are starting to

reach their peak and delayed by a cold snap. that might spell doom. >> they will fall off. >> they there were for joe's birthday. >> they were absolutely beautiful! you know who is beautiful? a beautiful man, the chief white house correspondent for politico, mike allen. >> you're a blossom, mike! >> he is here with the morning playbook. the fbi is looking into claims by senator mitchell mcconnell that his closed door campaign discussions were secretly taped and leaked to jones. the topic of the conversation included possible senate opponent ashley judd and everything from her politics to mental health. here is part of the recording and mitch mcconnell's reaction. >> ashley judd -- hay stack of needles because there is --

she's clear emotionally unbalanced. >> as you know, last month, my wife's ethnicity attacked by a left wing group in kentucky and then apparently they also bugged my headquarters. so i think that pretty well sums up the way the political left is operating in kentucky. quite a nixonian move. this is what you get from the political left in america these days. >> ashley judd put out a stadium, saying, quote, she expected nothing less from mcconnell but, mike allen, the headline here is not what they said in the meetings because both sides say some pretty tough things in off the record meetings about their opponents. it's that somebody bugged it. what do you have on this? >> well, we don't know how the recording was made. there had been a public event in the outer part of the office earlier in the day which might be a clue to it. mother jones mag which posted

mitt romney 47% and posted this tape yesterday said in a statement that the recording was not the product of a bugging investigation -- bugging operation and they didn't go further. mitch mcconnell of course, is eager to play the victim here. we are talked on this show about how he is down in this race or his approval is down in the state. yesterday afternoon, his campaign sent out an e-mail with the subject line liberals bugged our office. they, of course, asked for money and said stand with mitch against the liberal media's illegal tack tickettics. that is the fund-raising pitch that mitch mcconnell is making. >> do we know if it's legal in somebody in washington, d.c. tapes a conversation without the other party knowing? >> it is illegal. >> are we sure about that? i think one side has to know in one of those cases as opposed to

to both sides having to know. >> it is each state. any concludes from your crack legal staff, mike, in washington, d.c.? >> i give advice about life but i don't give advice about the law. but i will say that this is playing just fine for senator mcconnell. right away, he took the conversation off. how far down he is in this race, gave him something to push back against. this was a progressive group that gave the tape to mother jones magazine. and you're right, that there was nothing that surprising about what was being said in this conversation. it was a fairly tight group of aides and so it is a mystery how this would have come out. >> it seems to me it's one thing if you're a politician and give a speech like mitt romney's 47% speech and you have everybody there and it's in an open, public place. if you're in a back room and

you're talking about and somebody is recording, it seems to me a pretty serious breach. our crack legal staff informed me as of 2008. actually, they have been drinking since our legal -- our legal staff has been drinking since 2008 because they are republicans and they can't believe barack obama won. they are all republicans. they said since 2008 -- did it say up until 2008? in 2008, it was a one-party state. so if one person was recording it in the room, that's -- >> remember linda triplett's recordings? >> politics happen behind closed doors. people discuss this. the fact they went after her mentalness is a little bit off but it was going to happen if she ran and the fact they were scheming ways to do it doesn't shock me. >> and i wonder if ashley judd would want all of the

conversations who were supporting her want what she said about mitch mcconnell behind closed doors. >> no, she would not. >> benefit of republican, life is fascinating. >> it is fascinating. mike, thank you so much. great to see you last night and good to see you today. >> thanks for the great party. >> louisville cardinals women's team try to match the men to get a title of their own but, first, they have to get past uconn and that is never easy. bill karins will take us through sports next. sorry. sore knee.

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time for your "morning joe" sports news of the day. begins with the women's ncaa title game. louisville women could they join the men's team as national champions? uconn is standing in their way. briana stewart can shoot. that was easy. the game was easy. over early. 47-26.

huskies with a victory. no comeback for the cardinals and no impressive victory like they had over baylor earlier in the tournament. she finished with 23 points, by the way. uconn wins 93-60 the largest margin of victory in women's final history and that is the uconn women's team eighth national title. the men's louisville cardinals arrived home yesterday. today at the kfc yum center. the nba. red hot knicks hosting the wizards or not hot. opposite of that. a chance to clench the team's first division title in 19 years. knicks actually playing defense in this game and good defense. raymond felton with a nice steal and the finger roll. 58-43. another blowout. this is just for the fun of it. carmelo anthony who has been on fire lately. jason kidd can pass the ball like that until he is 90 years old. lay-in before the buzzer.

knicks win number 13 in a row. 120-99. melo had 36 poisnts. top scorer for the nba and found his his jersey, not lebron, not durant, is the top seller in the entire league. not a bad day for the knicks and melo. rapper and brooklyn nets minority owner jay-z is selling his stake in the team and wants to extend his business into basketball. the entertainment mogul owns 1% of the nets. just a little bit. but he has been very visible. he is selling his shares. if that is necessary for him to obtain his national basketball players association certification as an agent. yesterday was another practice day at augusta national before today's par 3 contest at the masters. last year's masters champion bubba watson get a legal emotion now and then. he was talking about last year,

hence the tears, and what is the most interesting thing he did with his green jacket. >> out of respect for augusta national and one of the greatest clubs we have, one of the greatest tournaments, out of respect for them, i didn't do any of my funny antics that i normally would do. so the only thing i did was wrap -- up in it. >> thank you. >> okay. that ends our press conference? >> bub was can laugh and cry with the best of them. kayla is bubba watson's 15-month-old son. margaret carlson will join us coming up on "morning joe." you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. ♪

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♪ 47 past the hour. take a live look at washington, d.c. as the sun comes up over the capital. another beautiful day and, boy, have we been waiting for that. joining us now for the must read opinion pages, columnist for bloomberg view, margaret carlson and we have michael steele and sam stein and kelly owe donnell still bus. we are all kind of recovering this morning. >> in a good way. >> in a good way. so we got three must reads here. there's a strain of -- well, i see something emerging here, whether it's a conservative paper or conservative columnist or "the new york times." we will start with "the washington post" and kathleen parker the balm of gun control and says this the biggest obstacle to the obama's administration push for tighter gun control maybe its best argument, newtown. because nothing would have

prevented the mass killing of children at sandy hook elementary school and everyone knows it. that is not to say we should do nothing but less we dilute ourselves whatever we do we will do because it makes us feel better and perhaps that is enough. i'd take it a step further and agree with kathleen to an extent as to where things are now and what is possible now, because it won't be a comprehensive three-pronged huge set of reforms that involve as you were discussing earlier video violence and hollywood and mental health crises, you know, encompa encompassing, getting our arms arn the millions of children out there that are growing up on medication, as well as the issue of guns. having said that, does that mean we do nothing, kelly o'donnell? i think at this point people have to look themselves in the mirror and make a vote. >> i think people who live with these kinds of big issues in terms of how do you deal with them in legislation recognize

small steps are actually very big victories if they could get something people want. a much more sweeping result. but what it takes to get to incremental change is worth embracing. >> margaret, what it takes to get anything done in washington now. if you can't look at newtown and the president can't go back to account and be surrounded by these families where what these assault weapons can do is laid out in the most cruel and unforgettable way when you look into the eyes of these parents. what can be done in washington? >> they have nothing in common really except their dead children. they are not of the same party or the same economic class or careers. only their dead children. >> do you think any of them want to be there? do any of them want to be on air force one? do you think any of them would trade a trip to the white house

for their children to come back? >> are you kidding me? >> and on this issue, just because you can't do everything doesn't mean you don't do something. >> that's it. >> but the saddest part i find in listening to the parents is those who go over the fact that if he had to change a magazine sooner, maybe the child hiding in the bathroom wouldn't have been killed. >> what? >> i do wish we could get from the background checks to the magazine -- >> i wish we could get to it all. >> to it all. but last night that you so beautifully put on, mika, it was great to see and we have talking about -- more talking than before. we had senator joe manchin talking to senator chuck schumer in my lifetime. so happy to see it. >> yeah. that was something over at the -- >> i was shoo'd away, sam. i don't know about you.

>> i was taken out like a waiter. >> real deal making was happening. >> it was hopeful. but, michael steele, what is it? and who are the members of the republican party that really can do -- at this point, cannot do anything? >> i think the game-changer here has been pat toomey for conservatives and for republicans in the senate certainly, but even around the country in terms of giving voice to a way forward on this issue. as we talked about a little bit earlier, mika, on the right you have, i think, still a legitimate concern that all of this activity around some type of bill doesn't lead to somewhere down the road a national registry, some form or manner in which the federal government can come in and check your ability to own a gun and if they don't like the way you own that gun, take it from you. short of that, and i don't think anyone -- and sam was mentioning earlier appropriate protections in whatever bill comes out that

touches on. but i think someone like pat toomey has brought this thing along, along with joe manchin. >> and mention tom coburn. >> a whole group of them have really in very quietly in the background without being part of a gaggle or a gang or group have been working to move this forward. >> i want to put cold water on this. >> why can't we be optimistic? >> sam, thanks. >> the cherry blossoms are out and joe had a birthday party. >> but it looks like they have a deal but we are not there yet and that is at 11:00 a.m. today. it has to go through the house where the appetite for gun legislation is probe less in the senate. a ways to go here but i take what kathleen parker wrote seriously and i think a lot of people want to be sure they did something in the aftermath of

one of the worst tragedies. >> i think it shapes how our society thinks in the years to come. kelly o'donnell, thank you so much. tomorrow on "morning joe," in addition to our exclusive conversation with vice president biden, we will be joined also by senator dianne feinstein and connecticut governor dannell malloy. coming up, senator kirsten gillibrand. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.

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♪ george w. bush presidential library and mutuseum is a destination for families and students alike. it features artifacts and activities that let you begin to be the president. trip. bump your head. trip again. dodge a shoe. throw up a dog and spit on the white house lawn. the george w. bush presidential library and museum. the only thing missing is you. >> now we are having fun! >> okey-dokey. welcome to "morning joe." top of the hour. kelly o'donnell and margaret carlson are still bus. joining on the set is the col n columnist of the daily beast,

mark mckinnon and the moderator of "meet the press" is david gregory. we showed you in your office but we didn't show you passed out from joe's birth party. he was surprised and great for you all to be there. we even had the weather. it was a great night. >> the cherry blossoms from the roof were so beautiful. >> when we landed in washington the day before, when i saw the cherry blossoms, i thought this is going to work out. i never get here. they always -- these kids. >> they are here for five minutes. >> it was fun. >> well played. >> well played and it was good to see some politicking happening on the roof. >> it was good. behind the cake. remarkable. >> that was great. you had joe's kids singing happy birthday to him and off to the side manchin and schumer talking guns. >> whatever makes it happen, i'll throw more parties then and

get these people together. >> you're the answer to gridlock. >> is that it? >> more parties. >> more birthdays! >> wow. i don't know if i can survive that. let's get to the news this morning. we are getting a closer look at president obama's budget proposal. the blueprint will reduce the deficit by 1.8 trillion dollars and it calls for 580 billion dollars in new revenue by closing loopholes. qle implementing the so-called buff rhett rule and the plan continues reductions payments for social security benefits. the president's plan continues to draw outrage from several progressive groups. yesterday, independent senator bernie sanders joined at least 13 groups to oppose the

president's cut to entitlement programs like social security and medicare benefits. more on this coming up in the show. david growing, your thoughts? >> honestly i think the white house would like to see more of this progressive outrage and see more liberals complaining about what he is proposing but the difficulty he still got is with republicans who will find 580 billion reasons why they don't like new tax increases and more spending. i think it's important to remember that the president's view about how to deal with economic restoration, how to shake off the vestiges of recession and get job growth is replacing some of the sequester cuts and other cuts through infrastructure and education and i know this is something very important to him and his views and how to get the economy going. on entitlements, republicans don't think this is enough. it's not insignificant at all that he would deal with what is called change cpi but they are

still looking at retirement age on medicare and median age on medicare is a entitlement program. it has more work to do it seems to me to get the right to come around. >> has the meter moved at all in the conversation? >> david outlined it correctly. the republicans appreciate what the president has put into writing what he is talking about in private meetings so that positive step but the balance of revenue he is requesting versus structural change, they don't think it's enough. but it's important to point out it's more than we have seen actually on paper, so it's that moving in that direction. >> this is how it happens? >> yeah. if both sides are unhappy, then they must be doing something right. a step in the right direction. >> like when somebody doesn't like a story you've done. >> if they are not barking, he's not biting. >> when both sides don't like it. >> there is that other aspect where he wants to hurt his base and he wants them to be screaming. but here's -- you know, there's tax reform in there that republicans say they want but

then they come back and say it's like the gun thing. if you don't do everything, we are not doing everything. when what is in there everybody mostly agrees on but they don't want to raise any revenue so they don't want to close any loopholes. this is not popular with the public. >> no one respected republicans to cheer the president, right? so it has to be -- >> they can close loopholes and revenue neutral approach is where they want to start start. cpi is a step in the right direction. it's proven it works. get to kids early instead of spending the money late for remedial education and for prison or whatever it is, the dollars spent. >> a dollar now saves you many dollars later. >> whether or not it's tobacco tax or whatever it is we have to find a revenue stream but that is a good idea. >> the other thing is we have finally broken this sort of chain how the two sides operate on fiscal matters and they now theting into a budget process.

there is at least a prospect. the sequester was something the republicans wanted. it may not play well politically but they still got spending cuts which is what the sequester is and it was clumsily done but the latest thing. i do think it's important that it's part of an overall budget fight, a budget debate. >> that is happening. >> they say regular order. >> regular order. >> as boring as it sounds we don't have to have gangs for everything. >> no more gangs. >> no more gangs. >> a gang of 60. >> oh, it worked once maybe. not really, actually. so, all right. we will have paul ryan on the show next hour. move to guns. the future of gun legislation could well rest in the hands of democrat joe manchin and republican pat toomey. nbc news quotes sources saying the two senators have reached a deal on background checks that could replace the original wording in the legislation in an effort to gain more support from

the right. they are set to hold a news conference as kelly o'donnell has been reporting at 11:00 this morning. according to "the new york times" their potential amendment would not require family members transferring guns to submit background checks. and the measure would ensure records would not be compiled in a national registry. we should talk about that. meanwhile, a threat to filibuster the original bill seems to be losing steam. democrats and several republicans are knocking down the idea saying the measure deserves a vote one way or another. the message pushed on capitol hill by the relatives at the white house. >> now it's time for every man and woman in the senate to stand up and say, yea or nay. i'm for or i'm against. tragedy that traumatized the nation and caught the intaengs of t -- the attention of the entire

world thinking that the proposal the president put forward make absolute sense, the climax of this tragedy could be we are not even going to get a vote? imagine how this makes us look. it's time to stand up. it's time for these guys to stand up and be counted. stand up so they can not only look the nra in the eye, people say, what am i going to say to the nra? i got some question for you. what are you going to say to those parents? look them in the eye and tell them you concluded there's nothing you can do? we have an obligation to try. >> yeah. so vice president biden, we are going to have a special round table with him which we will be showing tomorrow in our show with some gun owners and it should be really interesting. mark and david, i have to say i'm too far over on one side on

this. i can't see straight. get me into the mind of someone who wouldn't want a vote on something that quite frankly, is so little compared to what needs to be done. >> this has disconnected some of the republican party are from the practical relates out. the notion of a filibuster on this issue would have been suicide for republicans. just russian roulette. we have got to have background checks. i'd like to give a shout-out to senator joe manchin. he's from west virginia and in a tough gun country and stepped forward and been the leader on this and that testifies to a guy who is a real problem solver and co-chaired no labels and down in texas recruiting no labels and out on the phone talking about the gun control law. >> i think it's important to point out too the idea of a

national registersy. if you go into a sporting goods store they keep a record of that. i think that fear is misplaced. i think there is a larger issue here for the president, for the white house and for democrats. the gun debate was effectively settled. i remember after the 2000 campaign with bush and gore, there was this feeling among the democratic party, look, this issue is settled and we don't want to go back to it and you know what the reality is? it's still settled. i know high numbers of people for these additional measures but again, if you read more what has happened. newtown is still front and center because the families are involved. this is not the case for background checks. this was not an issue of can you trace the weapons. they were purchased legally. this is a much bigger deal about mental health and this young's man and that particular family. i think that is the struggle for a lot of people. you start running up against a huge urban rural culture split in this country. for many years, gun control

advocates. to your point, mika, where you're disappointed and others who want to see a common sense approach. i still think it's difficult on the merits of what is going to make a real difference. remember, background checks is about ultimately helping law enforcement trace the weapons that can ultimately be used. >> just seems to make so much sense. am i missing something? >> it already exists in a lot of places where you try to cover that's are not covered. >> can i explain the filibuster a bit? >> please. help me. >> what the most conservative senators are saying is that the bill that was put forward by harry reid that sort of sitting on the on-deck circle was the one written only by democrats that passed through the judiciary committee the proper process with only democrats. these conservatives felt this particular bill needed to be slowed down. they didn't think they could stop it, they want to slow it

down. in addition, the political part of it is the filibuster was big success for rand paul on another matter, drones. so in this moment, the filibuster is just the manual cal word of the conservative movement. it is a tactical moment that was being used and ted cruz of texas is going to explain his thinking this morning, but that's really what it's about and people think when they are talking filibuster is means filibustering everything and they are speaking of a very specific bill. >> the president's calculation seems to be that even if gun control fails, at least he'll have a keep kids safe political issue to help flip the house back to democratic control the next midterm. does anyone think the president is thinking that way, by the way? in that sense, his inflammatory rhetoric is meant to bait republicans some of whom are biting. if conservatives want to prove their gun control bona fide the

way to do is debate the merits and vote on the floor. they can always filibuster the final bill if they want to but it makes no sense to paint themselves into a little box canyon before even knowing what they are voting on. >> i do think this is -- i think what is accurate about that is that there are grassroots group, the mayors group against illegal guns and others in the president's own base of supporters who absolutely want to use the gun issue in 2014 and 2016. >> this has created something that looks permanent which is there has been no counterpoint to the nra with money. >> right. >> the passion has always been on the nra side. you know, on the filibuster thing, republicans are so simple minded. i wrote a column -- crazy paul rand because he did a real filibuster. it was a beautiful sight, wasn't

it? >> rand paul. >> paul rand, yes. it was a beautiful sight. now they think fill a busters are good because of that. >> when you're talking about politicians that, you know, an issue that is important to ted cruz and mike lee and rand paul may not represent the party more broadly and what we are seeing a number of republican senators are saying that's not for me, not for me. >> simple minded republican, can you please? >> i didn't mean to do a label, mark. i know you're no label. i'm so sorry. >> this issue is -- it brings out all sides in us. >> it does. you have to understand a lot of republican reaction to this it has nod more with distrust of the federal government. it goes way beyond guns. >> think about how ridiculous that is. >> the paranoia about registering. >> do you think they don't have our names and where to find us? that is crazy. are you kidding me? >> that feeds the problem. a distrust of the federal

government having information about that. >> that's not the government. >> i'm trying to explain where it comes from. >> that is a longstanding deeply rooted concern. you don't have to go with it really. we don't have to accord it a lot of respect. like obama is going to come and take your guns? >> help us understand. please. >> because the gun control advocates for years wanted to ban handguns. >> right. item the view you want to take guns away is not unfounded because groups were advocating that position and i think a lot of people feel like don't we see this in the abortion debate as well? it's a slippery slope when you do this. i'm not saying it's the right judgment. i'm aig saying that is a belief. i think whether it's in the texas that ted cruz represents, senator cruz, or it's john

tester or mary landrieu. >> is it fair to question some of these concerns are a bit archaic in the world of drones and technology that tracks every move we make? that government is going to come take your guns or invade us like waco or something? i mean, they -- >> they believe very strongly that they have to press these issues so there isn't a creeping of government greater control. >> okay. >> it's a fight for them on each issue. >> the good news it looks like we are -- >> that's good. >> thank you. >> take the positive. >> no labels. margaret carlson and kelly o'donnell, thank you so much. david growiegory, stick around, you can. >> some claims are backlogged up

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♪ all right. welcome back to "morning joe." 22 past the hour. with us is the democratic senator of new york and member of the armed services committee, kirsten gillibrand. we start with guns which we have been complaining about here. mark mckinnon is a little outnumbered and david is trying to explain to me the mindset of the nra and gun owners in america. what are you hoping for at the

very least at this point to come out of this? >> i'm optimistic and a couple of things happening to make me optimistic. >> make me optimistic. >> we have a compromise on the verge with senator manchin and senator toomey and with senator schumer i think will deal with the background check and hopefully a reasonable and thoughtful way and a senior number of senators who say will not full a buster this bill and have it for an up and down vote. we have the mothers and fathers of the victims with us here on capitol hill. when they look a senator in the eye and say i need action, my child's life means something and you must do something. that is so powerful and so meaningful, i think it's going to shift the debate. >> i do too. david, i don't see people criticizing one side of this for politicizing the victims' families which often happens after. i think this is different and they do have an impact and their

voices are extremely strong and articulate on this. you hear it from their hearts every time they talk. i just don't know how this couldn't move the meter. i don't understand where more isn't happening. >> i guess my question for the senator would be -- i mean, i think everybody agrees this is, a, a national trauma and everybody respects their rights to make their voices heard, but it really hasn't moved the meter in terms of assault weapons ban is not going to make it and magazine bans will not make it and background checks if it makes it will with lots of exemptions. it looks like i suppose begun trafficking will make it but that has been amended somewhat. how do you explain the diswhich is support for mere getting it past congress? >> i think having the parents of victims come to washington does matter. . mattered when they did the 9/11 health bill when the first

responders came and knocked on every door and told the people about their the difficulties they were having. that is what our ghdemocracy is about. i think their stories will resonate. i think it's going to command more collaborative work and consensus bill. the consensus bill will have a good bit of things that make it matter. i think it's essential and absurd in this day and age it's not a federal crime with stiff penalties to be a trafficker where you're selling weapons directly to criminals and in my state it's 9 out of 10 of the weapons used in crimes that are illegal traffic guns. if you get rid of those guns you're going a long way to reducing gun death. having a background check bill even if it gets to 95% of all purchases that's a long way from where we are today so that is real progress. if you make real investments in mental health so people who are

gravely mentally ill or violently mentally ill can't get access to weapons and more support for that and more financing for intervention that will also save lives. if you can package these three things that can progress. it doesn't mean we shouldn't fight for the assault weapon bans and limiting the magazine clips which we will do. we will keep fighting that whether this vote or the next vote. >> look at what colorado has done. don't you think the states are leading the way? what do you need? you want to break down barriers so someone can say, mark, somebody close to you i think has a real problem. what are we going to do about that? that kind of intervention that colorado passed maybe that is the laboratory. >> having states lead is not a bad thing. if you look what we have been doing on equality issues and marriage equality is helpful when iowa passes and new york passes marriage equality. you're creating accountability

on the state level for federal representatives. my view on these things every success builds on the next success. if we with key movement on state-by-state basis that will strengthen the federal debate. >> a lot of states taken the opposite attack and tried to loosen gun restrictions or allowed you to carry weapons concealed obviously. part of the problem and you know this better than anyone else is that, you know, if you can't handle this in a federal way it doesn't make the state laws that significant because what is the percentage of gun deaths or guns in new york state that come from out of state used in violent crimes? if you have to do this in a comprehensive federal way it's not effectivive. >> 9 out of 10 guns come from out of state because we never had a federal trafficking law. but i do think having states debate these issues. some will lose and some we will win and for each win that gives strength to legislators and advocates to keep fighting and

what we have seen in our fight for marriage equality. >> can you talk about the mental health component? also the how wide component and the video game piece of this which we haven't heard much about. >> it's something we are working on and a number of bipartisan bills already on mental health and on video games and i think those also can be part of the debate. i think it's a comprehensive approach where you look at all of the perhaps aspects that affect violent crime and perhaps can reduce gun death if we change the laws and change the playing field. >> that's not really where the action it? >> is it fair to say perhaps like -- >> it's not my gravest concern in new york city. my gravest concern in new york state is trafficking. if guns are sold drl criminal a creating a network i'm worried about that. video games is not my area of focus. my area of focus is getting the guns off the street. >> you're saying guns are the

most important factor in this debate and i think some would argue that guns, mental health, you know, it's a trifecta really of problems that come together and then end up in shootings like the one in newtown or like the one in aurora. we could go down the line and look at the profile of a shooter and it is always three-fold and i think some people, including joe who came out on the show the day -- the monday after newtown and said i'm going to change -- i'm going to change on guns because we have to. i can't. i can't look at what happened and not change on guns. >> right. >> what is he saying to democrats is when are you going to take on people from the video game industry or hollywood? good for joe for taking on people in his own party. >> that is -- >> when it first came out we are talking about three things and we end up talking about one thing. >> there will be mental health in the compromised bill in the bill we ultimately vote on there will be mental health components which makes sense.

we are trying to cut spending across the board and spending cuts i think are highly unwise. the amount of spending cuts we have made to mental health across the country is so severe and it's creating a crisis so if folks in washington are now at least willing to put money back into meckental health and prevenltiprevenlt i prevention and getting into the high schools is -- >> the tip of the sphere on this whole effort legislatively was ban assault weapons like in 1994. it's not going to happen. they have complained about the tactics and strategy behind that and dianne feinstein behind this and now is there a vote on that. >> we will have an up and down vote on assault weapons and important to take and people should be held accountable for that vote and do everything we can to ban the weapons. they shouldn't be available for public sale and i welcome that

debate. if we do not succeed on that debate it doesn't mean the rest of the reforms will not make a difference. when commissioner kelly says i need to get the guns off the street. i need to get these illegal guns off the street. we minimize what the changes will do but it's what i've been fighting for since 2009 to make a federal crime of straw purchasing. >> two conversations we are having. one about instances of mass murder via gun violence which in that case the assault weapons ban is important and the mental health issues are important and violent video games are important. the deaths of the crimes that occur via gun violence is via handguns and where things like the trafficking, the background checks matter. and we have done some work at the huffington post where we have tracked gun deaths since newtown and gun through the clips locally. you'll be shocked how many are accidental deaths and one-on-one shootings and not the type of

incidents that happen at sandy hook. >> law enforcement say if you want to stop people killing each other, then ban handguns. >> you have to ban them from the hands of criminals and gravely mental ill is the focus. >> what the nra says. >> also what the americans think. the reason background checks are so important, gun enthusiasts and members of the nra overwhelmingly support background checks because they don't want the gravely or mentally ill or criminals or someone with a disposition toward violence who just committed diagram violence at home they don't want those folks to get weapons and nobody wants them to get weapons. coming with consensus there i think matters. it doesn't mean the battle is over but we can have a successful first step and why having these republican senators say we are not going to sustain blocking on these bills and we don't think the filibuster makes sense i think is disgraceful for

any senator say they will filibuster a gun bill. >> the gun debate to contradict myself from earlier, if it was settled as of 2000 and still settled we could be moving into a new era assault weapons over time maybe you have to get through some cycles where the movement changes not only among public opinion, but politically as well. i don't think this is the moment for that but we may be moving toward that. >> i agree. senator, thank you very much. and david gregory, thank you as well. tomorrow, our round table with joe biden on gun safety and also on the show dianne feinstein and connecticut governor, dannel malloy. more "morning joe" in moment.

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some news from overseas now. north korea is preparing to mark the birthday of the country's founder next week in an event that could coincide with another

missile test. south korean officials say that launch could come any day. north korea officials are warning foreigners in the south to leave the country because of the threat of nuclear war in the region. while the white house is dismissing that, quote, unhelpful rhetoric. the pentagon is preparing to intercept any missile that threatens u.s. forces or american allies. >> i believe we have the credible ability to defend the home land, to defend hawaii, defend guam, to defend our deployed forces and to defend our allies. >> during his testimony, admiral locklear was pressured to get china more involved to keep peace on the korean peninsula. john kerry is hinting at new usa for syrian rebels. he can committeded into and medical supplies to the free syrian army and meet with

opposition leaders to expand the support even further. "the washington post" reports schism be a deepening between rebel groups and pitting martarist among extremists. up next the outrage of the v.a. continues as millions of disability claims for vets remain in lingo. we will talk to the congressman jeff miller and also paul reichoff will join us. more "morning joe" when we come back.

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a lot of our critics, be we agree with part of what they say. we this is unacceptable and need to get degenerates from d.o.d. when it comes to leadership and addressing things from our veterans, look. four years ago the post 9/11 g.i. bill was just an idea. now iraq veterans including my myself have benefited from. four years ago we were in two wars we didn't see an end to. if you want to talk about taking care of the troops the fact when this president and this secretary leaves these wars will be end, that's leadership. >> all right. that was veteran affairs assistant secretary tommy sauers on "morning joe" in late march defending the obama administration's efforts to fix the backlog of claims for vernted disabili veteran disability benefits. with us chairman of the committee on veterans affairs, congressman jeff miller. in new york, ceo and founder of iraq and afghanistan veterans of

america, paul reichoff is back on the show. gentlemen, thanks for joining us. >> good morning. >> let me try to take the other side what is a national disgrace and is there an argument that we could not -- we could not have predicted the repeat tours of duty and the trauma not only on our veterans, but their families to the point where the backlog makes any sense to you in any way because it just seems completely disgraceful. >> we have been at this for ten years. >> what is going on? >> i think is there a problem with leadership and i think problem with management in the system itself. they are hanging their hat on new fanningled ideas like this new system they are supposed to be rolling out and now hearing it crashed on monday because too much information was being pushed into the system. i don't want the veterans to have to wait another day on this

and i think that it's important that the president step forward and get involved. >> some of them have been waiting for quite some time. >> how about four and 500 days to get a yes or no out of their claims? i mean there are some regional offices that are doing good work, but you've got others are woefully behind. l.a. and oakland and baltimore, maryland, office have been closed for total retraining. unacceptable to the 900,000 veterans waiting right now. >> this is a rise of complicate claims. can you explain that? >> if you go back to 1995, you will see the exact same testimony before the house, veterans affairs committee for the backlog that existed back then. complicated claims, veterans coming out of the system. so here we are in 2013 using the same old excuses over and over

again. it is amazing if you walk into one of these regional offices. all you will see is stacks and stacks of paper. in the 21st century without having digital records for these veterans it's going to be difficult for the -- >> it's a technical term? >> exactly right. >> paul, what is it at this point thaw think the administration needs to do, must do to the congressman's point to begin to break down this backlog, to recognize -- i mean, it's one thing for the assistant secretary to go, you know, we are our tours and winding down and the troops are coming home, that's great. but when they get home to it a system that cannot even get their name into a computer without breaking down, what are you seeing right now needs to be the real push here to get this thing done? >> we need to hear from the president of the united states. and ever since this national controversy emerged a few weeks ago, we still have not heard from the president of the united states. he needs to get involved because it's not just about v.a.

it's also about the department of defense and making sure that the two complicated massive bureaucracy can talk to each other. good to see representative miller involved and need to see bernie sanders step up and talk about the outrage we have heard across the country the allow ge -- the last few weeks. i heard from someone on twitter who has been waiting three years. three years. >> come on. >> that is how long people are waiting. i routinely hear from folks waiting 900 to a thousand days and everybody in measure is outraged and now we need action from the president. >> what are you trying to do to fix this, congressman?

beyond stunning that we are at 2013 and these claims are going through and these waits and processeses that seem to be like 1961? >> i think the important thing to look at is a little bit of a history. we have given, the congress, in democratic congresss, and republican congresss, everything that the department has asked for whether it's money or people or technology or hardware. we have given it to them. something is breaking down somewhere. i think what is happening there is a fear within the system to be able to move those out that aren't able to do their job. it's not fair that a veterans file would sit literally two years without ever being opened for for the first time. >> paul said 97% remain on paper and seems ludicrous to me in this day and age. >> finally the v.a. is working on a system that will do that. paul just said one of the big issues out there is the department of defense is pushing back with v.a.

congress mandated, at one time, that they would have one single electronic health record. now the department of defense, of spending hundreds of millions of dollars, has come out and said we can't do it, we have to figure out another way to make it happen. if we -- >> what is going on? >> thing called apps. do you guys want to borrow a computer? >> it's getting worse, guys. it's getting worse. the last week it's gone up a couple of thousand. another week it's gone up another couple of thousand so it continues to go in the wrong direction. the impact for our veterans on the ground is tremendous. it's three years potentially of waiting to find out what is going to happen to your finances, how are you going to pay your bills and take care of your kids? this is not just about washington bureaucrats but men and women served overseas and now stuck in this inexcusable bureaucracy. >> what can we do beyond talking about it here? because this just seems like an insult to where we stand as

americans. >> we all need to pressure the president. the president has to step in here and show presidential leadership and rally everybody he can around fixing this problem. even onproblem. even on friday when asked, they said 2015. they said when in 2015? he said 2015. we don't even know what month. >> let me go further than that. when i asked him in testimony a couple weeks ago, okay, if you're going to fix it all by 2015 tell me where you're going to be next year in 2014? no answer. they have no idea on what metric. >> the veterans waiting 325 days, are they going to wait until 2015? is someone doing anything right now? >> there are some regional offices doing very well. they are focusing on trying to retrain some of their employees. the fact remains there are people within the system i honestly believe that they're not doing their job. and some of the leaders within the system don't want to move them out. what the v.a. is real good at

doing is recycling employees into something else if they can't do their job. adjudicating claims or being able to set claims up. they'll move them to another position. >> congressman jeff miller, thank you very much. paul rieckoff, thank you. coming up on "morning joe" paul ryan will give us his prebuttal to the president. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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look at this. >> it's going. it's going. >> she's a natural. >> very good. coming up next here in washington, two senators will unveil a new gun control compromise that could be key to breaking the gridlock. joe will break it down with michael steele, sam stein and kelly o'donnell. that's next on "morning joe." mine was earned in djibouti, africa, 2004.

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a former republican congressman in florida is now talk show host, and he's very popular. he has a program called "morning joe." here's what "morning joe" has reported as having said. scarborough tears into gop filibuster on gun bill. and says, and i quote, is anybody awake in my party? >> good morning. it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. on the west coast as you take a live look at the white house. back with us onset in washington, michael steele, sam stein, and kelly o'donnell. the showdown over the new gun legislation is beginning now in ernest. the senate is going to consider whether or not to begin debating. a threat to filibuster the bill by a group of conservatives is losing steam. several republicans and democrats are knocking down the idea, saying the measure deserves an up or down vote one

way or another. that was the message being pushed by -- to lawmakers yesterday by relatives of some of those who lost children in the newtown shooting. and it was repeated again by vice president joe biden at the white house yesterday. >> now it's time for every man and woman in the senate to stand up and say yay or nay. i'm for or i'm against. the tragedy that traumatized the nation and caught the attention of the entire world, and after all the thinking and the debate and discussion, the overwhelming majorities of the american people thinking the proposal the president put forward make absolute sense, the climax of this tragedy could be we're not even going to get a vote? imagine how this makes us look. it's time to stand up. it's time for these guys to stand up and be counted. stand up so they cannot only look the nra in the eye, people say, what am i going to say to

the nra? i got some question for you. what are you going to say to those parents? look them in the eye. and tell them you concluded there's nothing you can do? we have an obligation to try. >> well, you know, republicans and democrats together did look a lot of those parents in the eye. and they decided that they deserved a vote up or down. and the future of the gun legislation rests in the hands of democrat joe manchin and republican pat too mamey. according to "the new york times," i'll tell you what, a lot of the sources we all talked to last night, the potential amendment wouldn't require family members to transfer -- in transferring guns to submit to these background checks. and the measure would ensure that records would not be

compiled into any national registry. that is a must for conservatives. that is a must for republicans. and that's something that pat toomey and other republicans on the hill are going to get. they're set to hold a press conference this morning at 11:00 a.m. recent polling does show roughly 90% of americans support the expanded background checks. kelly, the outlines of the deal that you've been hearing about, does it require family members, neighbors, individual sales to have these background checks but it closes two huge loopholes. >> internet gun sales and fwgun shows. one of the biggest complaints we heard from conservatives would be sort of the anecdote of let's say you have two neighbors who live 40 miles from town in rural america. they want to swap shotguns or some other firearm. are they going to have to get in a car and drive and register? if it's brother to brother. people were saying that's just adding a burden of regulation that just doesn't make sense. so they were able to work

through this and it has been tedious, difficult work. lots of phone calls. lots of personal meetings. staffers were going way into the night. and maybe some even still working now getting ready for this morning. turning an idea and principle into some of the legislative language. it's like writing the contract. it's very, very complicated. but it is a real breakthrough. why? because joe manchin, democrat, has the best rating you can get from the nra. so does pat toomey, a republican from a blue state like pennsylvania. so they give cover. not only does it make sense to a lot of people, but they give cover. i was with johnny isaakson, a georgia republican yesterday. he met with those families. looked them in the eye. he said while he disagrees with some things, he would not be one to say filibuster. the issues of guns are well known in the country. no reason to hold up a vote. begin the debate. get it going. that's important. some of the more conservatives who want this filibuster, when you've got the johnny isaaksons

of the party saying that's not a good idea, that changes the dynamic. >> of course, we've been hearing the same thing from lindsey graham and others. john mccain. don't filibuster this deal. sam stein, obviously, though, a lot of liberals are not going to be pleased that these individual transfers aren't in there. but at the same time, i mean, a lot of gun control advocates will say, well, if we close the gun show loophole, if we close the internet sales loophole -- by the way, a lot of gun shop owners will say the same thing -- that's a good thing. >> you're right there's going to be griping over the exceptiempt carved out. i'm pretty sure at the end of the day the liberal senators would vote yes. if you look at the context if you had said a year ago people would close the gun show loop hope, people would be doing cart wheels. a massive tragedy happened in the interim. it shouldn't have taken that to

get to this point but it did. some would say we should go further. at this juncture progress is probably much more valuable to them than the assault weapons ban, the high capacity magazine. they're willing to take it because they know that it is a first step towards something they want to do gradually. >> gradually. michael steele, t"the wall stret journal" this morning even is saying don't filibuster this deal. again, i must tell you, i haven't run into many republicans that are against background checks for criminals. in fact, i mean, i had a friend in the party last night. he's got a quote, assault weapon. and he is a huge hunter. and, of course, he came in, was needling me. dianne feinstein, you liberal. i laughed. i said, all we're talking about right now, all we're talking about is background checks for criminals. background checks for people with mental health issues.

that could be violent. and he just said, oh, i'm for that. >> of course. >> all of these guys are for it. 90% of americans are for that. >> that's the sweet spot. that's the common sense of this whole debate which, unfortunately, and i think lindsey graham and john mccain figured out very early on, that that's what the sweet spot was. and this idea of moving to filibuster and watching the number grow. that was the interesting thing that i thought really began to concern a lot of members in the senate and conservatives -- even conservatives around the country who, like your friend, say, hey, you know, yeah, that makes sense. that this number was beginning to grow from four to eight to 13. i think now you'll see that peel back a little bit. the bill will get to the floor. you'll have this conversation. i had someone say to me, well, i don't see what the hold up is with having, you know, exchange between you and sam have to be registered. if you were to sell your car to

sam you would have to register, he'd have to register the car. the car isn't protected under the second amendment of the constitution. we understand that. but i think it again boils down to some of the remaining hesitancy that's out there in some corners of the party around the country about exactly what does this all mean longer term. i think that second point that you put up there about a national registry and having the government eventually using this information, however it's acquired, into what degree or extent that exists, against gun owners down the road is still out there a little bit. >> that is a concern. and that is exactly what the conservatives on the hill right now are making sure is taken care of. that you aren't going to be able to set up a gun registry. of course, sam, we've had background checks before. >> yeah. this is what's confusing. they kept saying a new background check system will be unconstitutional. then you would ask them what about the current one? if the new one is unconstitutional what about the current one? do you want to get rid of it?

they wouldn't have a response. >> if the new one is going to lead naturally to a gun registry why -- >> lawmakers have taken these considerations into hand. they are explicitly as i understand say there will be no federal data base of firearm sales. one thing i'll add on the filibuster thing which i think was a silly political maneuver for republicans because it set them up to look insensitive in some respects was that they didn't wait till the final deal was done. they were saying we're going to filibuster something that we have not yet read. >> haven't even read. >> that seemed to me a little bit curious. >> they were jumping out -- >> they're not the brightest bulbs when it comes to messaging on these hot button issues. whether it's guns or gay marriage or other issues that have now come down the pike. >> let's be honest. mike lee or ted cruz are not going to be harmed by having, you know, stood up for a filibuster in their home states. they're not going to take any heat for that. >> also, kelly, look at all those names up there. it's good for everybody politically in their own home states. it's also very good for mitch

mcconnell who's up in 2014. he's got to prove that he's a conservative's conservative for the tea party faction. he's going to be fending off primary challengers. it cost him absolutely nothing. i bet before he even said it he knew what was coming around the pike. >> you've got to look at it as a snapshot of them kind of carving out their own stand for their own personal political purposes. and representing views in their home states. and then the forces, kind of the waves of this moves beyond it. if there's eventually a bill people find acceptable, they've got their wind. those who want to see more restrictions have their wind. >> that is sort of the friction between michael steele, when i'm talking to republicans here, i'm talking to our party. our party that keeps losing presidential elections. and i keep talking about what works in bucks county, pennsylvania. what works in the i-4 corridor. what works in all of these swing areas. of course, individually what works there, and this is the rub, does not work for mitch

mcconnell in a republican primary in kentucky. >> exactly. >> and when i blast my party, sometimes, you know, i'm blasting from 30,000 feet. and i'm talking about winning general elections in presidential years. far different than being mitch mcconnell and trying to win a republican primary in an off year. and it's a balancing act. >> it is a balancing act, joe. >> it's always been a balancing act. we haven't balanced it well in the past. this is a great example, i think, where the party looks like they are starting to balance individual needs and the good of the party and, more importantly, of course, the good of the country as a whole. >> i agree with you 1,000% there. i think the other take away for me, particularly in what you have said recently and more specifically yesterday on the subject, it's not even just about presidential elections anymore. it's also now about congressional races. you've got a number of folks that are going to be looking at congressional seats down the road as well. redistricting helped the party a

lot. but voters are a quirky lot. just because you've redistricted them over here or over there doesn't necessarily tell you how they're going to vote on something that really matters to them. and this really matters to voters. that's what, you know, i believe you were screaming yesterday. >> i actually said in a very -- it was a silent scream. >> a silent scream. >> i was very quiet when i said it. but i almost whispered is anybody awake? but they are. they are, though. you look at pat toomey in pennsylvania. a republican. >> he's the case study in this. he's got the best -- >> manchin and toomey are game changers. >> they are. they've been quiet about how they've handled that. that's been effective. they've really used personal relationships. toomey's got as good a record as you can have on the conservative side, i mean the fiscal side. >> i talk about him all the time as being one of the -- he and tom coburn are two of the true conservative champions. true conservatives through the years.

whether there's a republican president or a democratic president, they have been conservative and right. as far as i'm concerned. and you're right. pat toomey going out there sends a very strong message. >> isn't it interesting those two were the one doing the primary negotiations on this? it seems like they feel very secure in their standing as conservatives. they don't think they will be ever questioned in their reputation within the party. that allows them to do -- >> manchin's a democrat. but he is a conservative in many respects. >> toomey and coburn. >> sorry. >> i was very complimentary of pat toomey. i was thrilled when he won pennsylvania. that's the type of candidate i keep talking about on this show. a guy who's conservative fiscally, moderate temperamentally. but let's just say, this is very good for pat toomey. he needs to get there. tom coburn, though, to do this coming from oklahoma, that is a guy that says, you know what? i'm good here. i'm going to do what may not be

politically popular. >> what i liked about it, you didn't need a gang of 40 to get it done. >> it's not done. >> yes. >> we're on the doorstep. it could still fall apart. >> it could still fall apart. you know, hope springs eternal. joe will silently scream if that happens. but you didn't need a gang of 40 to get it done. you had two guys from the right side of the aisle and the left side of the aisle and they got together and they figured out the common sense core of this thing and they crafted something, we'll see, as you said, how it all plays out. but i think hopefully it opens up a new door to how we get stuff done in this town. >> still ahead on "morning joe," north korea readies another missile test as the u.s. military moves into position. are we on the brink of war? or is it all just a sideshow? andrea mitchell joins us ahead with her trip of the region. she's going to the region pretty soon. we'll see what she's going to be looking for. coming up next, the chairman of the house budget committee,

congressman paul ryan joins us to give us his take on the budget plan. also with us, former clinton press secretary dee dee myers. first here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> what a wild forecast it is out there. temperature swings that are unimaginable. it's like 8 in denver and 70 in st. louis. we've got summer and winter battling right now in the middle of the country. oklahoma city, you're losing. the temperature is now 33 degrees in oklahoma city. it is raining and even some thunderstorms in the area. and we have got reports of a lot of freezing rain just outside of the city limits. now they're starting to worry about power outages from freezing rain in the middle of april. crazy. as far as areas to the north go, chicago, we got some thunderstorms that are knocking on your door that are now right in between rockford, kenosha and chicago. rolling towards the lake shore in about the next half hour to 45 minutes. probably some delays at the airports. severe weather. we didn't really get a lot of tornadoes yesterday. that's good. i don't think we'll see a bunch today either.

the biggest concerns with the severe weather will be large damaging hail. we had a lot of that in omaha yesterday. the area of yellow could see damaging winds and hail today. that includes a big chunk of louisiana up through arkansas, little rock to st. louis. indianapolis. even a little narrow strip there including philadelphia through pittsburgh and central ohio could see a few strong storms. here's probably the worst part of my morning forecast. minneapolis, hope you didn't put the snow shovels away or the snow blower for that matter. you could get up to a foot of snow later on tonight. incredible stuff. oh, yeah. by the way, d.c.'s only going to hit 90 degrees today in the middle of april. enjoy it. craziness. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ [ jen garner ] what skincare brand is so effective...

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welcome back to "morning joe." same stein, michael steele, mark mackinnon all back with us. joining the table, former press secretary to president clinton and contributor to "vanity fair," dee dee myers. you missed it last night. >> i did. i'm so sorry to have missed. happy birthday to joe. >> yeah. he's passed out. he fell off the couch. he's face down. >> perfect. sign of a good party. >> yes, it was. also with us from capitol hill, republican representative from wisconsin and chairman of the house budget committee, congressman paul ryan. paul, good to have you back on the show. thank you for coming on. >> good morning, mika. good morning, dee dee. >> good morning. >> paul, this morning the

president is going to officially unveil his budget proposal. the blueprint will reduce the deficit by $1.8 trillion. it calls for $580 billion in new revenue by closing loopholes and implementing the so-called buffett rule and reducing tax benefits for top earners. the plan also contains reduction to cost of living payments for social security benefits, higher costs for medicare coverage to upper income beneficiaries, access to universal preschool paid for by increasing the federal tax on tobacco products and expanding a tax credit for middle class families to afford child care. so, paul, what say you to this plan? your prebuttal. >> we haven't seen it yet. >> fair enough. >> i want to hold my powder until i've actually seen it. i've seen the talking points. the devil's in the details. i hope it's not just a status quo budget. all those things you said could just be icing on top of a status

quo budget. i want to make sure it's not that. the status quo's not working too well. we have massive deficits, crushing debt, a slow economy, high poverty rates. so is he going to break the status quo? is he going to take on real entitlement reform? is he going to kick start true negotiations? that's the question that is open in my mind. i don't hear much of that, though. my fear based on what i now know and what i've heard is it's more of a status quo budget. i also wonder if he's going to follow the senate and have a net spending increase in addition to the tax increases. the good news in all this, i want to be constructive, at least we've got everybody putting a plan on the table. we haven't had that for four years. now the senate has given us a budget. don't like the budget. they don't like ours. that's fine. at least the president two months late is putting his budget on the table. now we're going to have to start looking for where the common ground exists. this is probably a status quo budget. the senate has a net spending increase budget.

when does he balance the budget? does he propose to ever balance the budget? those are the things we'll be looking for. a plan to balance the budget? is it a plan to get the debt under control? is it a plan to just raise taxes and more spending which will hurt families and hurt the economy? >> those are fair questions. but i guess my question to you would be, what is different now in terms of how we move forward? if you all completely hate the plan are we going to have more of the same or do you think there's something different in the air these days? >> the process. the process is moving forward. we haven't had a budget process since 2009. so what's different this year is patty murray got a budget through the floor. we passed our budget. president's putting his cards on the table today. that's new. we haven't seen that since 2009. so, to me, that's constructive. now we have a process that -- it's called the budget act. that moves forward. now we can start looking for common ground and see if we can get something done. i don't believe the president's giving us a fundamental

restructuring, tax restructuring today. doesn't look like that. probably not wholesale change we need to get the economy growing, attack the root drivers of poverty, secure entitlements for the next generation. maybe we can get a down payment on debt. something like that. >> we're lucky to have you here to talk about this frame work. rapid fire from our panel starting with mark mackinnon. >> congressman, the president's budget seems to at least be a step toward the middle compared to the senate bill. can you talk about any areas where you see some compromise or some -- some territory where you can have some negotiation? >> well, he's creeking the door open ever so slightly on entitlement reform. there's something there. we want to see what he's proposing on medicare. but there are some small changes in medicare. we don't think more provider cuts work. that just means providers will stop providing medicare for medicare beneficiaries. but means testing. that's something we agree with. i hear there's means testing in here. we'll see what the changed cpi proposal looks like. it's not really a fundamental reform of entitlement programs, more of a statistical reform.

i want to see what other kind of spending controls he has in here. we also want to see is he going to fund the military at the rate he thinks it ought to be funded at to serve what the joint chiefs tell us they need. there's a lot of big questions we don't know the answer to. the point i would make, mark, at least the process is moving forward. that's a good thing. >> dee dee myers. >> you mentioned cpi. it's something president obama put on the table that the base doesn't like. it's the white house telling the people it's a sign they're willing to put something forth to compromise. what are you willing to put on the table that your base won't like? >> we put up budget that balances. we've said here how you fundamentally restructure medicaid, medicare. lots of these things. the base, we represent seniors as well. we think medicare reform is the best way to go to save this program. there are a lot of things we've done. the fiscal cliff was not real popular, i would add. so we, republicans, have already done things to move to the middle to get to common ground that have not been entirely popular. but we have not seen resip cal

moves. >> the conversation we're having is all about deficit and long term debt. i want to talk about jobs. the most recent reports show work force participation is at a decades low. what is something that congressional republicans in the white house can agree on? both sides can agree on that would stimulate some sort of job growth in the near future? >> sam, you know we're not big cane y keynesians. >> i understand. take stimulus out of the occasion. >> two things i would say. we're on the cusp of an energy renaissance if we allow it to happen. it's good for jobs, american manufacturing, paychecks, good for making people stretch their paychecks farther by gas and home heating. it's still cold where i come from. by the way, tax reform. look, max baucas and dave ed --

we are really serious about fundamental tax reform. stop crony capitalism. stop picking winners and losers in washington. plug loopholes in r in order to lower tax rates on all families and businesses so we can create jobs. we really believe if we set the stage right we can get fundamental tax reform. that's the best thing we can do for growth and jobs today. those are the things. energy renaissance, tax reform, that really can get us growth today we'd like to see happen. >> there could be some room for agreement there. both sides touch on those issues from different ways. michael steele? >> congressman, how are you? >> hey, mike. >> i want to say up front i agree with this position on obama care. your budget calls for its total repeal. but let's be real. is it realistic to think that's going to happen? or has this become something like the department of education for the republican party that likes to go in coampaigns and talk about eliminating the department of education but that doesn't happen. is the department in that zone where we put it out for the base?

is this real in your view? what's the deal with obama care in your budget? >> first of all, we don't call for the repeal of department of education in your budget. that was something joe scarborough offered when he was in congress. hr-1876 i think he called it. obama care, our budget's our vision. we don't like obama care. we have put our vision budget. do i believe president obama and the senate democrats are going to go along with that? no. the question, as i said at the beginning of this segment, is where can we find common ground. michael, to your point, i really think this law is going to grow in its unpopularity with the kinds of things that are coming over the next year on its implementation. i think we owe the country how we would do things differently, replace it, to have an honest debate about how to fix what's broken in health care. things do need to be fixed. i don't think obama care is the answer. we're never going to say, yeah, let's go with this program because we just don't think it will work. to your point, no, i don't think that's going to be a final agreement. i think we're going to have to find where we can get a final agreement. to sam stein's question, tax

reform, energy development, and then let's find those things, those spending cuts, those entitlement reforms that get a dent on deficit and debt and hopefully get something like that done. >> paul, before you go let's talk about guns. we're looking at a possible compromise on background checks, at least, in the senate. how do you think the house will take on this issue and what do you think of it? >> well, i haven't read the details yet. i don't think it's been released. pat toomey is one of the best legislators in this place in my book. he's a very close friend of mine. so when pat toomey puts something out, i pay attention to it. i look at it. with seriousness. so i want to see what he and joe manchin have to offer. i always have believed that if someone is not allowed to legally buy a gun, you got to make sure that they don't. there are reasonable things you can do to do that without restricting the second amendment. those are things we have to look at. devil's in the details with these things. we'll take a look at what proposal they do. they're moving a bill over there. we'll see what they get done and

we'll have to take a look at it. >> in concept do you support expanding background checks? >> we. i've always said background checks, depends on where you're going. you're talking about private sales, you're talking about things that do end up encroaching the second amendment or gun show loopholes and things like that? >> gun show loopholes. >> i think there's a reasonable area to have a workable solution. >> you're giving me a little hope. congressman paul ryan, thank you very much. good to see you. coming up, more troubling developments in north korea. nbc chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea hitchmitch will join us before she heads over to the region. "morning joe" will be right back.

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we decided to try an experiment in ethiopia. so we taught them how to build a latrine, outdoor toilet that would cost a dollar if they do the work themselves. we thought they would have 1,000. we just finished 2,300,000 latrines in africa. >> oh, my god. wow. that's incredible. >> i've been famous as the number one latrine builder in the world. i'm not famous for peace between

israel and egypt but, you know. >> maybe they'll change the name from the jon to the jimmy. you never know what will happen. >> that's a really great exchange. good sense of humor. joining us now, nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent, host of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell. you have just a little trip coming up. >> i'm going to korea today. and there we'll meet up with john kerry who's in london today trying to deal with the syrian cr crisis. then he's heading to asia, on to beijing and tokyo. his message to the allies, south korea principally and japan, don't go nuclear. we've got your back. we've got the aegis destroyers with missile defense surrounding the area. we are propositioned in guam. we will shoot down this missile which we think may be test fired, not aimed at south korea and japan but there could always be a mistake. will land -- they believe south koreans are on a high watch warning. they think something may happen in the next 24 hours because it

is the anniversary of the grandfather's birthday and the founding of the nation and all of these other national days within the next couple of days. >> how do we -- it does seem -- listen, obviously it's an ongoing crisis. but it does seem like this has come out of the blue and all of a sudden we're sitting here talking about all-out potential in engagement. >> we're talking about a 29 or 30-year-old leader who inherited this from his father. he was the third son of a second or third wife. not the one expected to be groomed for this job. and he's got his finger arguably on nuclear weapons. he's talking about using tactical short range nukes on south korean and american forces. 28,000 americans just below that 38th parallel. he is probably trying to shore up support with his people, with the generals who may actually be in charge. but whoever's in charge, it's a much harder -- jimmy carter, i was watching last night. jimmy carter was talking about

he negotiating in 1994 the last big deal for bill clinton. but then it was invalidated when george w. bush came in. conservatives argued probably correctly that the koreans, north koreans, were cheating all along. >> this is the question i have on the bigger point that mika just raised. here we are sitting about all-out engagement. >> talking about 24 hours. >> within 24 hours. where are the chinese in this? do you really believe the chinese are going to sit back and allow this 29-year-old kid to create not just global con grag ration but putting economic and political and military might to a real test here? >> that is the question. that's why john kerry is going to beijing this weekend. what we heard from the new president of china is a very oblique, but strong for them, reference last week that nobody in our neighborhood should threaten their neighbors. but what we want now from them is a real hotline conversation. hey, kid, you know, cut it out.

we're going to cut you off. >> i'm not sure i understand, what is his strategic objective? you know, as -- >> that's the thing. >> that's a really good question. >> his father and grandfather were bellicose, belligerent. but they were doing it in order to get grain, in order to get fuel, in order to get hard currency. this guy has or the people running him, the puppeteers and he's the puppet, they've just shut down the one cooperative venture, the joint venture, with 53,000 north koreans getting money. we're talking about millions and millions of dollars a year. that they benefit. and they need it desperately. so they've shut down that factory area just north of the border. that was a real signal to me and to others watching that he doesn't know what he's doing. he's not arguing or negotiating for the interests, as they perceive it. we have so little -- you see the best and brightest analysts saying, we don't know what's going on. >> i have to questions. how is it possible that dennis rodman didn't solve this

already? secondly, there were reports i think josh rogen, foreign policy, did a report yesterday about that we have actually engaged the north koreans. >> we have. >> do you have any sense of what was, you know, born from those talks or why they were done in the first place? >> it was a new leader -- roller coaster. so in march there were some secret talks, intermediaries. it went nowhere. now you see the result. they realize now that they can't deal with him. this is not to paraphrase margaret thatcher, we can do business with this leader, this is not someone they can do business with. the other deal is kerry is in london today dealing with the syrian opposition. we just talked to lindsey graham, "meet the press," david gregory's guest on sunday. he has just come back from there and was saying, you know, maybe they waited too long. now there are so many al qaeda factions in with the rebels, we can't just arm them. so no longer are you hearing the

pressure from some conservatives on military policy. we've got to arm them. they're demanding weapons. they're very disappointed with the u.s. which is lagging behind britain, france and certainly all of the persian gulf states. the uae and the saudis who are arming them and arming them through intermediaries. >> there's not a clean option, though. >> no. the real concern is the chemical weapons. now the concern is you prove to us that if and when assad falls, that you will help control the chemicals. and make sure they don't get to the al qaeda supporting factions. then we will consider -- >> do we have really good intelligence on who these people are? >> we have better intelligence there certainly -- >> than north korea, obviously. >> we didn't for a long time. but we do have people on the fwround there. the great intelligence is the jordanians, uae, saudis, they are deployed throughout the region and throughout the conflict. >> what does sending them night goggle -- night vision goggles and, you know, high powered telescopes -- >> well, it helps.

>> it helps. but longer term, i mean, to your point, if you have now this infestation with al qaeda and other nefarious interests, how does the u.s. navigate itself. having waited too long or so long before engaging. >> this really the dilemma. exactly. what do we do? we're giving them more than we say. there are plenty of reports that we have intel there, that we have cia there and others. you know, clearly we are there as well. and the refugee aid and nonlethal aid is not to be sneezed at. king abdullah of jordan is threatened. he's on a precipice. he's got 400,000 refugees in his country now, economic strains and a real political crisis could be brewing there. we have a lot of leaders there that need to be propped up. kerry just was in turkey talking to the israelis and, you know,ered wan in turkey about that. he's trying to do a number of things. it's really interesting to watch this. after four years of almost nothing on the middle east peace

process, they tried with envoys, george mitchell and others, he is just investing whatever capital he's got if the white house gives him enough running room, enough leash. >> talk about his transition into this. he comes into a couple of ongoing crises and tries to maybe reset the priorities in the state department a little bit. how is it going? >> people thought he would be more of a stay at home secretary of state. working on his political ties to the white house. not so. he has been three times to the middle east just in the last couple of weeks. and he's really trying to quietly do something between israel and the palestinians and turkey. make sure that the deal that the president brokered back between erdawan and netanyahu is finalized, completed. ambassadors exchanged. this is a really big venture. it could fall flat on its face. he says he has no illusions about it. but he's not afraid. he ran for president and lost. he's not going to run again. he has no political aspirations. he's not afraid to invest his

life and whatever -- you know, his political career in this. and he's wanted this job all of his life. >> we have a nothing to lose situation. go in there and not be held prisoner by other aspirations. andrea mitchell, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> we'll be checking in with you during your trip. good luck and be careful. you're injured. >> she's unbelievable. >> i've never met anyone who works harder. >> look at your hours, honey. >> yeah. coming up next, business headlines with brian schactman. we'll be right back. ♪

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all right. time now for business before the bell with cnbc's brian schactman. the dow in record territory yet again, brian. >> mika, funny, people starting to ask why. we had a horrible jobs report on friday. the dow is basically up 2% since then. the s&p is only two points from a record. we're positive in the premarket. the real reason some are pointing to today is china reporting a trade deficit which means they imported in more than they exported, which means if there's a domestic economy that's gaining strength in china, that's good for just about everybody. but very few economists trust the data there. especially with europe as weak as they are with their exports up 10%. people don't think that's slightly accurate. i want to talk about mortgage applications quickly. they're up. the interesting thing is, refinancing makes up 75% of mortgage applications. so that's not a lot of new home buyers necessarily taking advantage of the low rates. when rates start to go up,

affordability might be a problem because prices are going up higher at a faster clip. i want to point out quickly, we talk about who's competing with whom? is google against apple? are they against amazon? turns out a "wall street journal" reporting apple might forge some sort of relationship with yahoo! in a way that could possibly make them less reliant on google. but yahoo! has a deal with microsoft. >> oh, boy. >> it makes my whole head hurt. >> what? yeah. >> i don't understand what's going to happen. the bottom line is, is that apple wants to be less reliant on google and maybe yahoo! is a way to do it. >> i'm trying a microsoft phone out. >> do you like it? some people like it. >> well, it's pretty. i'm going to throw it against the wall a few times today. >> it needs the mika brzezinski test. have someone throw it, see if it breaks. >> i'm going to throw it many times against a cement wall. then i'm going to give it to joe's son jack for 24 hours. we'll see what happens. brian schactman, we'll see. i'll give you a full report. thanks, brian. take care. up next, lindsay lohan pays a visit to the late show last

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happiest when i'm working and the healthiest. and i think this is an opportunity for me to, you know, focus on what i love in life. and i don't think it's a bad thing. i think it's a blessing. >> to be able to -- yeah. perhaps a lifesaver. a career saver. >> yeah. thank you. i've gone through a lot in life. i'm looking forward to actually just taking time for me. >> mm-hmm. >> you can't make a joke of it. that's so mean. >> i'm not joking. >> no, you're not doing that. we're not doing that. >> maybe one or two? >> no. this is my show now. i'm going to come back from rehab and take over your spot. >> george w. bush presidential library and museum is a premiere destination for researchers, students and families alike. the museum features over 100,000 artifacts and dozens of interactive activities that let you pretend to be the president.

bump your head. trip again. dodge a shoe. flip a dog. and spit on the white house lawn. the george w. bush presidential library and museum. >> now we're having fun. >> let's take a look at the pros and cons of being kim jong-un. here we go. pro, his people adore him. con, or else. fair enough. pro, he's got a soft side. con, it's called his body. little plump. pro, he gets to follow in the footsteps of his all powerful father kim jong-il. con, everything at work still calls him lil kim. pro, in college he played a lot of pick up basketball. con, meaning other players would pick him up and use him as the basketball.

pro, he has the temperament of his father. con, and the hair of ernie. >> pretty good. tomorrow on "morning joe," you are exclusive round table discussion with vice president joe biden on gun safety. senator dianne feinstein and connecticut governor dannel malloy. next, what if anything did we learn today? i'm meteorologist bill karins. a huge storm in the middle of the country is creating just a plethora of weather across the cub t country. near 90 today in the nation's capital. look back towards denver. very cold and chilly. windchills in the teens during the day and stormy weather in between from chicago to kansas city to dallas. watch out for some of those

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okay. what we learned today is joe did turn 50 and he was surprised at his surprise party yesterday. dee dee, you missed it. come to the next one. we had a great time. there's senator joe manchin. senator schumer there. tim kaine. kirsten gillibrand. claire mccaskill. lindsey graham showed up! lindsey graham, we did end gridlock yesterday. they were having gun deals at the side of the rooftop on 101 constitution. and lindsey graham kissed me. i'm serious. just saying. it was a wonderful time. what did you learn? >> big game guns today. just in, there's going to be 3,000 plus family members of gun violence victims that are going to go to hill, read the names of people hurt in gun violence before they have the vote. >> michael