and i've started a new company that needs a manufacturer kayak. i have new inventory. need to with that one. next? >> we got brook. she writes, our neighbors have a new dog who is now also awake. >> oh, the old neighbor with a new dog, huh? you got to become friends with the new dog and throw it some food and then send it back to the house. puppies are rough too. great show, everyone. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ >> i think what was the game changer in the minds of the american people saying enough is enough is what happened to those beautiful babies up in sandy hook. look. joe this is one of the cases where the public is so far ahead

of the elected officials. i mean so far ahead. you saw it in immigration, you saw it in major issues and you're seeing it now. the public has moved to a different place. >> it's a big day for the debate over guns in america as the u.s. senate opens the first round in the showdown over new legislation aimed at reining in the violence. at 11:00 members will hold a vote to begin the debate on the bill. 60 votes are required to move the legislation forward. if that happens the first matter of business will be the background check compromise from senators joe manchin and pat toomey. it's a bipartisan plan that has triggered new moment on capitol hill although the future is far from over. welcome to "morning joe." we have sam stein with us this morning. former director of the white

house domestic policy council and ceo of melanie barnes solution. melanie barnes. and willie geist. mike barnicle. and the host of politics nation and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. good morning to you all. >> good morning. >> it really is a big day and you can't overstate the compromise and the power of the compromise that joe manchin and pat toomey have put together. here are two conservatives. manchin without a doubt the most conservative in the senate. pat toomey for my money' i've said it all along, one of the true conservatives in the u.s. senate from pennsylvania. it bears repeating. while the rest of the party jumped off the cliff when bush was president, toomey remained conservative and voted against a

medicare drug benefit plain and he got elected in pennsylvania, a blue state and this compromise is incredible. guys like us paul ryan we respect pat toomey so much and why it's not a surprise paul ryan yesterday said i'll take my leave from pat toomey. >> we have a lot on this to cover. we start with the proposal on expanded background checks for commercial gun purchases including those at gun shows and online. the deal does not call for checks on sales between family members and neighbors. the bipartisan compromise is giving the legislation new life because both manchin and toomey have a-ratings from the nra. they say it's the right thing to do. >> i'm a gun owner. and the rights that are enshrined in the second amendment are very important to me personally. my record shows this. but i got to tell you candidly i don't consider criminal background checks to be gun control. i think it's just common sense. in you pass a criminal

background check you get to buy a gun. it's no problem. it's the people who fail a criminal or mental health background check that we don't want having guns. >> but the proposal is getting a mixed reaction from other members of congress. senator tom coburn says it is a good faith but unworkable plan and it will impose new taxes and unreasonable burdens on law abiding sit and in a statement the nra said expanded background checks will not prevent the next shooting and not solve violent crime and not keep our kids safe in schools. brand-new polling from nbc news and the "wall street journal" shows that while 55% are in favor, the number has dropped from 61% from just a month ago. the poll also shows that 82% of democrats are in favor of stricter gun laws while only 27% of republicans feel the same way. >> but here we are, again, mika.

on a day where i think we are going to see historical gains made in protecting americans from gun violence. pat toomey said this. i will repeat it again. this is a 90/10 issue. >> yeah. >> and lots of luck to the republican runs against pat toomey and says pat toomey is not conservative enough because he wants people who were convicted of violent rape to have a background check done on them before they buy a bush master. good luck to you, future republican candidate. and i will watch enjoy watching pat toomey and the people from pennsylvania. it will be enjoyable for me. i love it. it will be great. >> we talked with the vice president yesterday which we will show coming up about a lot of issues. >> is that graphic? i'm sorry.

>> it's 6:00 in the morning! >> good morning. >> i've been very clear i'm about winning. i'm about winning. you need to win elections and what pat toomey has done, mika, he has assured himself a much better standing, not only with the people of pennsylvania, but with the republicans in pennsylvania because the republicans and gun owners support stopping rapists and other violent offenders from go to getting guns over the internet. >> sam, politically we saw movement. we saw something happen finally. >> yes. this has been this long compromise and remarkable that at the 11th hour it comes together. i credit joe scarborough alone for bringing joe manchin to the birthday party and getting it done. no. the truth is there has been a lot of drum beat on this and

finally it happened and so many hurdles still to come. the first vote will likely pass but only gets us to debating and amending the bill. >> they actually think they have the 60 votes. >> if that's the case but they still have a major hurdle in the form of the house of representatives. i'd be curious to hear what senator toomey says about what he would tell john boehner about bringing up this bill. this all hinges upon john boehner feeling the pressure to actually bring legislation to the floor which is still a big question mark. >> the thing is the obvious. you'll have a lot of house members who don't want talk right now and see what happens in the senate. if this passes 85-12 in the senate most house members will go along with it and paul ryan is out there saying he will follow pat toomey. you're going to have the votes in the house. i don't think john boehner is going to risk his speakership on wane lapierre's fantasies and

i'm dead serious. 12, 13, house seats sound like a lot until it's not a lot. >> right. >> and if you piss off 90% of americans because you want rapists to be able to buy guns on the internet and you want people that have committed violent acts to be able to buy guns on the internet without background checks, then you're going to lose middle america. if you don't mind, melanie, i had alex say something in my ear. this is what al qaeda has to say -- >> you nor your background system is weak when al qaeda makes a video about how easily attainable it is in the united states. the buzz feed pointed out this 2011 video by adam ghadan who is among the fbi's most wanted terrorists. >> in the west you have got a lot at your disposal.

let's take america as an example. america is absolutely a wash with easily obtainable firearms. you can go down to a gun show at the legal convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle and without a background check and most likely without having to show an identification card. so what are you waiting for? again, one of the most wanted terrorists in the world telling people how to kill americans and talking about the loophole. does john boehner really want to be on his side? >> on his side? not on his side but on the side to making america more safe? >> right. that's chilling. >> it is. why would you go there? >> it's stunning to listen that first thing in the morning. not only should he want it, hopefully, he won't want it. you already start to see signs of movement. i mean, the philadelphia area republicans have already said that they support what manchin and toomey have put together. and know that there is going to

be a bipartisan introduction of this bill in the house of representatives with peter king and with mike thompson in the house. so we already see that moving into place. i think sam is exactly right. they have got the votes for closure today and that is the speculation. and have a lot of delay tactics that slow this down but hard to slow down when 90% of americans want it to happen. >> it's a chilling video how you can kill a lot of americans because of the loophole. i'll talking about violent rapists and talking about other violent criminals that can get guns on the internet now without background checks. seriously this is one of those issues that are going to pass us by and we will look back and go, you know what? that really was never even close. it was just the nra trying to scare a lot of people. >> well, it does look like this piece of it any way will get through. it is significant. it's probably good news that people like this will not be able to get their hands on guns if it, in fact, goes through but

reverend sharpton, when you think about where we were in december after the shootings in newtown, you could hardly conceive of a dramatic event in this country, little children shot in their own school. you probably would have expected something bigger, something more. there is not going to be any ban on weapons. there is not going to be a limit on magazine sizes. this is a partial, not a universally, partial background check and certainly not the sweeping gun change some people had called for in the wake of newtown. >> no. i mean, it's almost disappointing that we are at this stage where we are grappling with whether we can get this through and celebrating if we do. but we need to make this first step. it would be worse if this doesn't happen or if it had been filabustered when we assume it will not be. when you think about what happened in newtown, we never thought we would have to struggle and make sense out of something this simple and when

we see this al qaeda spokesperson standing there just saying what are you waiting for? that this is almost an open invitation to terrorists aside from the people that joe mentioned, rapists and serial killers and people are mental disorders can get these we i don't know what. we ought to be reaching much further to avoid newtown but if we can't start here, you can't get a token to get on the train if you don't start here. >> "the daily news" talking about all for nothing. talking about the pain and discussion that happened after newtown and the daily news calling this a soft gun deal. >> i understand the sentiment as expressed by reverend al but we have sat here several years talking about this. i don't think it's that inappropriate to congratulate

joe manchin and pat toomey for assembling something together. >> i agree. >> moving something forward. i think we ought to foef cus on that. it is something. it's not what we would want and not what sensible people would want but hopefully it will get accomplished. another plmt to it that is interesting and joe eluded to it earlier. if this passes the senate and we are told it's going to pass the senate and further debate will pursue and further amendments will be debated and then it flips to the house and i think it is to the future of the republican party. does john boehner specifically stand up and say i don't care what 90% of the people in this country want or what they think. i care what wayne lapierre thinks. that is is going to be an interesting moment. >> it is a question that the republicans are going to have to answer. they want to be the party of ronald reagan or the party of wane lapierre and the decision

they make will determine, if not, their future for the next decade, certainly the future in 2014. i do want to just push back a little bit on what "the daily news" says. this is not a soft gun deal. this is not nothing. this is huge. if you talk to people that really care about stopping gun violence in america, they will tell you that high capacity magazines and assault weapons, those are great steps if you can ban those weapons. those are more symbolic really than getting a background check system that is going to stop violent offenders. i think sam made this point yesterday. if anybody, mika, had told us a year ago that we were going to close the gun show loophole where terrorists could walk in and get an assault weapon and go out and kill americans, our internet sales where violent rapists and child molesters and felons could go on the internet and buy awe salt weapons,

everybody said it wouldn't happen. this is not a soft deal. this is actually less symbolism. it's one of these wonderful times, sam, in politics, where the easiest thing to do may be the most important thing to do. >> there has always been two conversations, right? there are instances of mass killing in which an assault weapon ban does have an effect and a magazine -- >> and those get massive headlines. >> and 90% of all gun violence done via handguns. in which case you have the gun show loophole and internet loopholes and that matter. the sun times had a story about a guy got a gun and didn't have to go through background checks on an internet sell. these are the type of things that happened with respect to gun violence every day in america and this bill will have more effect on that than i think an assault weapons ban would have. >> when this debate started this

was the provision that everyone said needed to happen. and if you look at the facts, 48% fewer gun trafficking cases, when you've got stronger background check laws. 38% fewer domestic gun violence related issues. >> we have got michelle obama making comments and the vice president round table that we taped and we will show our viewers. we will wait on that. we round out the block with kelly o'donnell joining us on capitol hill with your take on how this all happened. >> good morning. this is the third day when families from newtown will be having personal meetings with senators and i've been spending time with them and talking with them. i've been struck by how in a way satisfied or accomplished they feel with the steps that are just being taken. you've been talking about is it enough? is it falling short of what people had hoped? i've been struck by how at least some of the family members i talked to know it will be a long fight. they will be back to d.c. again. but feel some sense of having been heard and having moved

things by talking to members. another thing that is important to point out is what is included in this piece that is being referred to as the background checks amendment also calls for some tighter restricttions on states to make sure they put into the background check system more of their criminal records, more of their cases where mentally ill have been adjudicated as not being capable of handling a weapon. they find that there are too many states that lag on doing that. if you're going to make a check the information has to be there and another component they are very pleased about. i see a lot of times when people come to the hill and want to persuade. i don't know that i've ever seen a time where it has been so deeply felt and with, frankly, a small number of people having such a huge impact because of what they represent and this enormous journey of grief they are are that they are trying to turn into action. republicans who have met with them have been touched by it and the families who met with republicans say they felt the meetings were good even if they

couldn't agree on everything. i think that is a pretty hopeful note. >> yes. >> that is a hopeful note. i do want to, under kelly, the heading if you can't say anything nice about somebody, dot, dot, dot. i've been tough on ted cruz throughout this gun debate but i read something on politico. ted cruz is the only republican that was threatening to filabuster that sat down and talked to family members. he politely respectfully explained he didn't believe this gun legislation would save a single life. i got to say i'm tough on him, but, kelly, i'm glad he was man enough to sit down and have the guts to talk to somebody and say, i just disagree with you and here is why. i give him a lot of credit for doing that. a lot of members i know run the other direction. >> joe, while families do want more and are committed to getting more, they have been, in

effect, touched or appreciative, they say, respected they have used those words in talking to the meetings about here. for their only experience of thrust into being advocates they said a job they didn't want but a job they felt compelled to do. those are the hopeful notes. we have got so many votes and so many debates and so many mornings when we will be talking about this stuff but at least today there is a sense that some change could happen, a sense that some members will tell the nra, no, this time i'm going to do something i believe in that you may not agree with, even if a score, even if a judgment by the nra may be coming. that's pretty big. and i think that is something that people will take note of today. we will see how it unfolds in just hours. >> kelly o'donnell, thank you once again. coming up on "morning joe," we will bring you the first part of our exclusive round table on

gun violence with vice president joe biden including his reaction to the opposition in congress when it comes to a ban on assault weapons and high capacity magazines. we will have the two men in the center of today's vote, senators joe manchin and pat toomey and also senator dianne feinstein will join us and dannel malloy will also join the conversation. but first, here is the forecast with bill karins. the weather is going downhill on the east coast and especially tomorrow. the problem areas today in the middle of the country. this is where the storm still lingers. we have snow and also thunderstorms that are going to ruin your morning commute. as far as the snow goes the worst of it by far to the north. the thunderstorms the worst of that from houston all the way up through louisiana to greenville and memphis area. you're getting drenched and slow drive there for you. further to the north the snow is coming down in southern minnesota and some areas will pick up as much as 6 to 10 inches of snow during the day today. apologize for that. at least it will melt early in

the days ahead. today, we did have a tornado yesterday that did significant damage in arkansas. the area of yellow shows where we have severe storms expected today. it's a very large section of the eastern half of the country all the way from southern ohio, kentucky, atlanta, even the masters could see some strong storms late today in through areas of atlanta and all the way down through north florida. later this evening toward the overnight hours into the carolinas. widespread wind damage looks to be the biggest threat so keep in mind if you're traveling or flying or doing anything travel wise in the southeast, you have a chance for experiencing at least for half hour to an hour some strong thunderstorms. it will still be warm the east coast but not as yesterday as we were near 90 degrees in areas like washington, d.c. even new york city saw the first thunderstorms of the season last night. today, it looks relatively calmer than yesterday but also cooler. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. with the spark cash card

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. >> it's 24 parse the hour. time to take a look at the morning papers. "the new york times." president obama has not signed off on any specifics yet but administration officials say the white house has agreed in principle to increase nonlethal assistance to the syrian opposition. >> a gunman took several atlanta suburban firefighters hostage yesterday has been killed off a standoff with police. firefighters lured into the home after the gunman made a false medically call seeking help. the firefighters only sustained minor injuries. dallas morning news. former president george w. bush has raised more than $500 million toward his presidential library and that surpasses the 165 million dollars it cost to

construct bill clinton's presidential library. the george w. bush presidential library and museum will be dedicated to the public on may 1st. >> mtv canceled relate show "buck wild" after one season after the death of one of its star named sid begghandi. he died of carbon monoxide after his ford bronco sunk into a pit of mud and clocked the exhaust pipe. a murder for hire plot at one of new jersey's most famous diners has been foiled by state police. the manager at clifton's tick tock diner was arrested for attempting to hire a man to tore tune area kill his 57-year-old uncle who co-owns that establishment. manager believed his uncle was keeping a large sum of cash in a safe at his house which was stolen from the restaurant. the state's attorney general

says he was, quote, motivated by greed and if you grew up in new jersey, as i did, you went to the tick tock diner a lot and who knew? who knew? coming up 20 years ago, then senator joe biden led the fight on capitol hill to tackle gun vils a violence and now he is at it again. his conversation with mika and joe is coming up. tiger is back in the masters. there is also a 14-year-old stealing some of tiger's spotlight down there. we will tell you about him next.  [ female announcer ] when a woman wears a pad

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welcome back to "morning joe." 6:31 in new york and that means 1:29 until the first players tee off down at the masters in augusta, georgia. tiger woods going for his fifth green jacket but first since 2005. he tees off at 10:5 eastern time. phil mickelson will tee off at 1:30. second ranked in the world, rory

mcilroy will tee up shortly there after. of interest is a 14-year-old eighth grader from china who lk the youngest person ever to compete in the masters is guan tianlang. he won the asian tournament in november in thailand. he plays at 12:45 eastern time. here is what the middle schooler had to say after his practice round. >> i'm really looking to forward to tournament. i think it's going to be a little pressure to me but i'm not going to push myself too hard and i'm going to enjoy the game. >> that's unbelievable. 14 years old. defending champ is bubba watson. to baseball. the impressive streak for the red sox is over. the team claimed -- >> leave out the claimed. >> that they 794 games that were

sold out. it ended last night against the orioles. game tied at 5. machado hitting for the o's and hits one deep to left over the monster. three hundred home run. baltimore wins 8-5. why did the streak end? they are in first place. they are playing well. >> the streak ended because the streak ends. all streaks end. everything comes to an end, including our relationship if you keep this up. >> by the way, it ended in about 2006, empty seats at fenway. >> no, it didn't. >> if you're selling out. coming up next, vice president joe biden assures gun owners that a national begun registry ain't going to happen, but does the plan for background checks in congress go far enough for those pushing for reform? we will have all sides of the debate in part one of our exclusive round table with the vice president. that is next on "morning joe." aw this is tragic man, investors just like you

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vice president joe biden is leading the charge on the white house's push for comprehensive gun reform, a topic he is more than familiar with. nearly two decades again, then senator biden helped spearhead his own have the gun bill which included the federal assault weapons ban. now that ban has expired. he is fighting for new regulations at the instruction of president obama. yesterday, we sat down with the vice president and a group of people closely invested in the debate including richard feldman president of the independent firearms association. and tina wilson-cohen and dr. cedric alexander from dekalb

county, georgia, the police chief an colin goddard a survivor of the virginia tech shootings who was shot four times in that massacre. now we bring you part one of our exclusive round table discussion with the vice president starting with the issue being voted today in congress. background checks. >> first, i want to you ask about what has happened. joe manchin and pat toomey, a republican, a conservative republican from pennsylvania, heck, that is almost northern delaware for you. >> it is. by the way, i'm familiar. wthat. >> you know for pat toomey, this is a jump among republicans. but explain, if you will, what it would mean if we had universal background checks and the type of bill that they are talking about? >> look. i can tell it you what it means where there are universal background checks in state and the chief could tell you as well and that is that violent crime is reduced with guns. 34% fewer women are being shot

by their husband or boyfriend with a gun. i mean, these things are real. it does have a real impact. >> what about the concerns? the nra, other gun rights owners and answer this. because this is important. >> for gun rights owner. >> answer this, if you will, and ask them their take on. when i go back to pensacola, florida, all of my gun owner friends say the same thing. we support background checks if doesn't lead to a national registry. what guarantees do you give them? >> the guarantee is right now, there is no national registry. when you go to buy a gun, say, at dick's, you give your name, address, your country of birth, your place of birth, et cetera, whether you're an american citizen, social security number if you want to. they pick up the phone and call the fbi or go online. within three minutes, 92% of the people say deny or go forward. guess what? they don't say what kind of gun you're buying.

they don't say where you're going. they don't say what it is, what the transaction is and when denied they don't say denied because of mental health. nothing. and the record, even the notice that you picked up the phone at dick's and called and asked about joe biden. >> right. >> has to be destroyed in 24 hours. so this idea that there is a national registry, there is no place in the federal government where you can go, not a single place, and find out everybody who owns a gun. >> that will not change? >> that will not change under this. the thing i find fascinating, joe, you know i was chairman of the committee when we passed all of these laws the last time. >> right. >> with the brady bill and the whole issue about everything from magazines to -- et cetera. guess what? the nra was for the background check bill. i negotiated personally with the nra as to how this thing got taken care of. all of a sudden it makes sense

to check 60% of the people gig g -- buying guns but 40%, it doesn't. >> tooen, what are your concerns when you listen to what he is saying here? >> it does sound reasonable. i guess the paranoia, the fear that when you start asking gun owners to go ahead and register their guns or do a universal background check -- >> i'm not asking them to register, tina. >> that is the paranoia attached to that, sir. i do support universal background checks whole heartedly. the reason why, too, is because i want to know that if my gun is stolen, yes, it registers to me but if i also go ahead and sell a gun to someone, i want to protect myself that i have done the legal and responsible thing as a citizen. >> richard, so let's talk about universal background checks. do you have any concerns about a national registry? and also let's talk about other

parts of the discussion of the debate since sandy hook, high capacity magazines and assault weapons. do you have any questions for the vice president on those points? >> when you're open for business with the public, it makes sense to run background checks just like at a retail shop. but when you transfer firearms to your friends, neighbors, family, that's in the home, government can't get at that. it's illegal already to transfer it to a prohibitive person. that is not where our problem is. at gun shows the atf says 1 to 2% of transfers will be stopped by the background check and think it makes sense but we are dealing with a small part of a much bigger problem. >> the same thing with internet sales? >> yes. plus when you sell a gun on the internet, while you've sold it you still have to send that gun to a federally licensed firearms

dealer to take possession of it. >> mr. vice president? >> here is the deal. we know, roughly, 40% of the guns sold in america have no background check. we know of the 60% of the people who we do background checks on and roughly 88,000 a year are denied because they are felons, they are fugitives or they meet the criteria that says under the execution, y constitution, you can be denied owning a gun. if you got 60% of the people going through a gun show loophole and, so far -- i mean, going through a background check and 2 million have been denied so far, how many do you think in the 40% would be denied? i mean, so there has got to be somewhere between 20,000 and 40,000 people who are buying guns offline, meaning not through a background check, who shouldn't have a gun.

and, again, the one thing the nra has done so well lately is the disinformation. we use the word registration. there is no registration in america. >> let me ask you a political question, because we talk about nra disinformation. they, obviously, haven't done that good of a job at it because only 7% of americans oppose universal background checks. >> well, that's true. look, joe, this is one of the cases where -- where the public is so far ahead of the elected officials. i mean, so far ahead. you saw it in immigration. you saw it in marriage issues. you are seeing it now. the public has moved to a different place and there is not one single thing we are suggesting, not one, the administration in our proposal, not one single thing that anyone can make even a prima facie case

that it impacts on the second amendment, not one thing. now, tina makes a point. there is a paranoia out there. there is a paranoia that is probably the consequence of a whole range of things relating to federal government at large and where people are in their lives right now. i get all that, but the facts are there's not a single solitary thing that we have proposed that even, for example, justice scalia, one of the most conservative justices in the case relating to the restrictions in washington, d.c. >> the heller case. >> the heller case. not one single thing. you're allowed to deny people under the constitution access and you're allowed to deny certain weapons and certain bullets, you're allowed to do that. that is constitutional. we can argue whether we should but the argument whether there is any constitutional violation is absolutely not there.

>> i want to broaden it a little bit to bring in our other guests. obviously, good argument can be made that background checks would have done nothing to stop what happened at sandy hook. a ban on assault weapons, is that something as a lot of our guests on the show from capitol hill have said, something like -- that you'd like to work toward at some point? >> yes. well, look. i think certain weapons of war just don't belong on the street. but look. let's talk about sandy hook for a minute. i love the argument they say, well, there is nothing that we are proposing could have done anything to change the circumstances at sandy hook. well, number one, the police got there in two and a half minutes. if there only had been ten bullets in each clip, he would have had to change the clip an additional three to five times. one of those kids would be alive. somebody would be alive. just statistically the probability is he just would not have gotten off 150 shots.

-- not as many people -- no one knows. so even if it just did nothing else, other than to save one of those kids' lives, what is the inconvenience? what are we doing? what are we doing to impact on a gun owner's right if he only has a clip with ten rounds in it instead of 30 rounds in it? >> chief, do you agree? >> i think we all agree across the country and certainly in the law enforcement community that background checks are important. but i think we also have to take into account the 99.9% of people in this country who are responsible gun owners. >> absolutely. >> and who are trying to do the right thing. and there's some responsibility they will have to have in this too. they have to put some skin in this game because they need to secure these weapons and we all have that responsibility, whether they are assault weapons or whether they are handguns, whatever the case may happen to be, so there needs to certainly

be some stronger legislation, i think, around particularly securing weapons and make them safe in our community. but in addition to that as well, too, and i think she would agree, is that we have to train. we have to teach gun safety very early on in our communities across this country and that is key. >> tina, you've brought this up. i've heard the same thing, mr. vice president. nothing you're talking about, joe, is going to have any impact on sandy hook and it may not. it may have an impact on the next sandy hook, but you talk about what we are all talking about right now, gun safety. i saw joe nosarah fluffintervie guy saying i'm a gun guy and he talked about gun safety. that is something that could have saved 20 young children lives if the mother had practiced gun safety. >> i agree. >> what are the responsibility? all we hear about gun owners, and i'm one, is our rights, our

rights. what responsibility do they have to make sure that when my child -- my 9-year-old girl goes over to their house that somebody doesn't play with a gun and somebody gets shot or killed? right. i think there need to be stricter legal implications when it gauls back to gun owners being irresponsible and having a gun in the home. >> i remember my father used to have a gun collection before things didn't go well financially and he had to sell it. my father was fa stiedious keeping it in a gun case and keeping it locked and i remember the first time taking me out. we walked out in the field. he turns around with a double barrel shotgun and blows a rail in half. i looked at him, said, dad, why did you do it? he said, "i want you to understand the power of this weapon." the guys you represent, they take great pride in the fact that they, in fact, but what has

happened here -- look. it used to be we were dealing almost exclusively, joe, with hunters. when i did this the first time in '94, it was the one group i had to go speak to and make sure they were satisfied with what we were doing, were hunters. there is a whole new sort of group of individuals now who i don't know what the numbers are, that never hunt at all. but they own guns for one of two reasons, self-protection or they just like the feel of that ar-15 at the range. they like the way it feels. they just -- you know, it's like driving a ferrari, do you know what i mean? it's -- and so my impression is there's not the same sort of cultural norm about gun ownership with a lot of people who are buying guns now. >> look at i just did this thing up in delaware. they started this thing called the white neck gun hunting club has this deal where they do a

wild game dinner once a year at the lexic far hall. 500 guys and women coming in in their hunting gear, their shirt, their hats, et cetera, just not one single person said to me, damn, joe, what you doing, boy? it was hey, joe wha, what is go on? we got to do something. because they are embarrassed. they are responsible gun owners and they are embarrassed with this notion that somehow these guys are being -- doing something that is inappropriate owning guns. my dad owned guns. >> that is just part one of our exclusive discussion with the vice president. there is much more coming up, including colin goddard, the survivor of the virginia tech shooting, his emotional and unique perspective on what congress is voting on this morning. and rick stengel with the new cover of "time" magazine.

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together with allison sweeney of the biggest loser. we are going to be kicking off the 20th anniversary of the gun. i'm shooting the gun and then reasoning with it. along with 10,000 dedicated women from all over the world. it's going to be so much fun. also this friday i'm signing super advanced copes of my new book "obsessed." it doesn't come out until may 7th but we will have special ones here at the more fitness health expo in new york city. come to the fitness expo. that should be fun and definitely come to the marathon. for more information, go to morefitnesshalf.com or follow on@morefitnesshalf on twitter. coming up, can pat toomey and joe manchin sell their plan to congress? they join us next on "morning joe." we love to eat.

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as i visited with the family at hadiya's funeral, i couldn't get over how familiar they felt to me because what i realized is hadiya's family was new like my family. hadiya pendleton was me and i was her, but i got to grow up and go to princeton and harvard law school and have a career and a family and the most blessed

life i could ever imagine. and hadiya, oh, we know that story. >> welcome back to "morning joe." michelle obama crystallizing what we are talking about here today. sam stein and melanie barnes still with us in washington along with mike barnicle and reverend al sharpton in new york. and joining us is rick stengel with the cover of "time" coming up. first, to capitol hill. the men of the hour, republican senator from pennsylvania, senator pat toomey and democratic senator from west virginia, senator snojoe man ch. they hammer it out for the gun debate. senators, i'll let you decide who goes first to answer this question. you guys faced a bit of opposition on this from the get-go. not just from the nra but from

people like tom coburn. do you guys have 60 votes? >> i think so. we worked hard and we will continue to work hard. mika, if people will not just take time to read the bill and understand how much this bill clarifies an awful lot of things, but basically it's just meant to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them and closing down the gun show loopholes and internet sales and i saw your piece this morning about the american al qaeda. i think that says it all. if that doesn't move people to say we have got to do something at our gun shows and internet sales where it's so easy to get these weapons, then i don't know what they would be for. >> i want to add. i think we got a few voting hurdles and i don't know how they will turn out. i think we will get started with the bill today but how the amendments play out, i think it's just too early to know. i do believe, and i'm very grateful to senator manchin for his work on this, but what we focused on is the right part of this equation which is can we make it more difficult for

dangerous criminals and the dangerously mental ill to get weapons. that is where the focus outed to be and what our legislation makes progress on. >> listen. i just want to thank you guys for what you've been doing and, joe manchin, you've been a real champion and a really good friend. pat toomey, i tell you what, you are a guy, you were a conservative that i've looked up to for a long time. you're a guy that stayed conservative even when there was a republican in the white house. so it was especially exciting for me for you to come out and take this common sense approach. let me ask you -- and i know you're going to hear from your constituents and some in your base are going to be disappointed, but do you have any concerns at all when you campaign the next time that you're not going to be able to explain that you want to keep assault weapons out of the hands

of al qaeda members and serial rapists? do you have any concerns that this is going to hurt you in the republican primary in the future? >> you know, i have no idea, joe. i'm not up to following the cycle. back in 1999, joe, when i was a house member, i voted to expand backed checks because i thought it made sense then. i'm very confident. i know this does nothing to enfringe the rights of law abiding citizens and if it does i wouldn't be for it. i feel comfortable defending the proposition that it makes a lot of sense to try to keep the guns out of the hands of dangerous people. i'm very confident i can defend that. >> joe manchin, you and i, we don't come from blue areas like pat. we come from the reddest of red states. and we have talked about it from the beginning, joe, the nra members that we know that we grew up with, that we went to church with, they also support background checks too.

are you really getting a lot of push back in west virginia on this? >> pat, you have to go out and -- i mean, joe, you have to sell this. pat and i are going out and selling it. people have to read the bill. we both on our web sites have posted this. it will be in detail. you'll be able to see the entire bill. you can make up your own mind. it was interesting. we had a call yesterday in our office and it was from a member of the gun owners of america who want nothing. a lot of them want nothing thinking anything we do is unneeded and they started railing on one of our receptionists and they turn it over to our chief of staff and he said let me tell you what is in the bill. at the end of the conversation, the gentleman said, if what you've said is in that bill, then i will take back everything, i will apologize and i will go out and help you. so if we are able to tell them, joe, and they can can see it and take time, i think something really good is going to happen and it's going to help keep the mentally and also the criminals from getting guns. >> you know, joe, first of all, thank you for coming to my

birthday party. i asked pat to come and pat said, "i'm not going to be seen in public with you, scarborough." >> come on. >> thank you for coming, joe. you have told me stories like this before. there was another guy at my birthday party that i grew up with at first baptist church in pensacola and he went on into the ministry. he owns an assault weapon and owns a lot of guns and it's been in his family and he hunts a lot. he started to busted my chops saying you're a big chuck schumer liberal. i said -- i talked about what we're doing here. i said do you really oppose it? he said, no, i don't oppose it but i'm concerned that i hear it's going to lead to gun registration. i, of course, rolled my eyes. there are a lot of good people out there that want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. they are concerned about that too. can you explain why this will

not lead to gun registration? >> joe, first of all, pat and i were very clear to make sure that we protected the rights of law abiding gun owners and clarified a lot of things that have been misinformed or basically not clarified enough. right now, the law is you cannot -- the ferguson cannot do a registry. we doubled down on that and made stronger penalties a felony if any law enforcement or anybody tries to do a registry for the federal government. so we basically strengthened the ability for them not to be able to do it and for us to be able to protect our rights. >> so anybody in the federal government keeps records, keeps these records, and creates their own registry. >> it will be a felony. >> that is a felony? >> absolutely. >> and they will go to jail? >> absolutely. >> you put legislation out there if they do this, you'll send them to jail? >> absolutely. >> that's right. >> that's how strong we feel can't be done and shouldn't be done and nor do i agree on that.

>> boy, that's strong. >> that's very strong. >> reverend al in new york has a question for you. >> first of all, i want to say i think both of these senators ought to be applauded by all of us. this is what real leadership is. i wanted to ask senator toomey. you said that there are hurdlings that we have to overcome to get this, in fact, made law. how do you see those hurdles being negotiated and what should the public do to help? because i think this is something that you two have proven all americans can unite around. >> well, i would really want to echo senator manchin's to urge people to read the bill. then if you support it. if you support the idea of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and mentally dangerous people and not infringing the rights of law abiding senators then call your representative in

the congress and senate and we have to reach 60 votes several times in the process in order for this to go all the way. so it needs to be bipartisan. there needs to be a significant number on both sides obviously and that is going to take some public support. >> senator toomey, senator manchin just mentioned a few moments ago that part of the job that you two guys are involved in right now is selling it. selling meese proposals. >> right. >> pretend i'm john boehner, i'm the house republican caucus. sell it to me now. >> if i was selling it to john and talking to him, i would say, john, if you look at current law today, if you go to a legitimate gun owner who is a licensed federal firearm dealer you have to have a background check and he or she will keep the record. all we're saying is when you go to gun show and you go to that same dealer showing it at the gun show the same process is done. background check and they have to keep the record. i can go to the next table over and i don't have to do anything.

all we're saying is if you go to the -- go to a gun show you're treated the same as if you went to the gun store. if i buy a rifle or a gun from another state and i call pat's state in pennsylvania, i'm in west virginia, they send the gun. they have it send the gun to an ffl dealer, a licensed dealer and i have to go there and do a background check. all we're saying is no matter where you buy the gun, in state or out of state you have to go through the same process. >> i would say three simple things here. our legislation strengthens background system and makes it work efficiently and quickly for a law abiding citizen to get the approval and it makes it more difficult for the criminals and mentally dangerous to obtain weapons and, thirdly, better secure second amendment rights in a variety of other areas for law abiding citizens. which of those three do we disagree with? i understand people on the left want to ban categories of guns and ammo i would never support.

our bill does none of that and if it did i wouldn't support it. >> let me interrupt you, pat. >> yeah. >> how does your bill strengthen second amendment rights? what do you put in there to strengthen the second amendment? >> it's a pretty long list and i mean it strengthens the people to exercise the second amendment right. active military duty personnel are currently forbidden from buying a gun in their own state. our bill changes that. currently some people caught up when they are legal legitimate gun owners transporting a weapon across a state. they are going on a hunting trip or going somewhere to visit family they give the gun as a gift and transitioning through a state with a different regime has caused enormous problems for some folks but we cleaned that up. a variety of other areas where it's just common sense. it's things that gun owners have long wanted and haven't been able to get.

and it's law abiding citizens we are taking care of them and not infringing on any of their rights. >> the most important thing is if they will just read the bill and both pat and i are encouraging everybody. it will be on both of our website. we will get you copies of the bill, whatever you need. if y'all will do one thing for us. what you did this morning showing the al qaeda, how easy it is to get guns and he said go do it, that will help us more than anything that we can do and also by showing the common sense approach. >> we will show it right now. why don't we? do we have it? >> alex is going to get it. >> rerack the tape. >> go back to the part of our system. the al qaeda videos? could you do that? >> it's a big archive. >> it's a huge archive. >> instead of al qaeda, you get me. >> ruffoughly the same thing. >> yeah. i was one -- in addition to those videos helping make the case for gun control, i was wondering from your perspective,

both of you, what -- how the sandy hook family members lobbying i guess on the hill, how that affected you and how it affected your approach with respect to this legislation. >> well, i'm a parent and come from strong family ties like most everyone does. if it didn't affect you, i don't know what would. i can't even put myself in that position, but to see the strength that these family members brought to my office and to the halls of this beautiful capitol and to pat's office and talking to us, they are not asking -- they are not overreaching. they are reasonable and responsible and not saying take someone's guns away and ban everything. i don't know how i would have reacted if my little baby would have been slaughtered like that. i don't know how. i really don't. to get the strength they are giving us to say just do the right thing. can't we at least keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have it? can't we at least do that? they have been very supportive and i think they us make a big

difference in this country. >> i recently supported background checks but when i met with them yesterday i was struck and moved how strong they are. it was a very painful meeting as can you imagine but i do think they bring a powerful voice to this. >> okay. and just to -- i don't know. kind of play into what you were talking about before with this al qaeda tape, let's show it. i mean, it really -- you should send this to everybody who might not vote. >> let's explain it. >> seriously. >> we will show you a tape of a try terrorist who is on the most wanted fbi list. they found this video that he has sent out to al qaeda members across the world explaining why america is an easy target for home-grown terrorism and they talk about how weak our background checks are. take a look at the tape joe manchin was talking about. >> in the west, you've got a lot at your disposal.

let's take america as an example. america is absolutely a wash with easily obtainable firearms. you can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle, without a background check and, most likely without having to show an identification card. so what are you waiting for? >> you know, pat toomey, that may explain why george w. bush, as sam stein was reminding me, in 2004 supported, what? instant background checks? >> he supported also the assault weapons ban in 2004 even though it had lapsed. >> to make americans safer because of the threat of terrori terrorism. >> that's a powerful video. it didn't used to be a controversial idea that we want to keep the guns out of the hands of criminals and the dangerously mental ill. i hope that -- >> and terrorists. >> and certainly terrorists.

i hope people see what is actually in the bill, what it actually does, i'm hoping that the support will grow. >> joe and mika, law abiding gun owners like myself and pat, we go through background checks. we have no problem. we talk to our constituents around the states. they have no problem with it. they have a distrust thinking the government will reach further. we are assuring them as lifetime member and sportsman all my life, this bill doesn't allow government infringement and doesn't take your guns away and it basically protects your rights of the second amendment to own a gun in a lawful abiding way. we have done, i think, a job that basically is going to do very, very much good for the american public. >> melanie barnes? >> senators, thank you for being here. you have worked so hard to craft a deal in one of the toughest areas. have you been coordinating and planning as you jump the hurdles that come before you all of the

amendments to fight off amendments many might see as a poison pill on either side to hold the deal together so you can get through the senate and hopefully this will move to the house? >> well, let me say one thing. i know there will be a number of amendments that will be designed to ban categories of weapons and ammunition and any of those restrictions on law abiding citizens i will vigorously oppose and i think they will all fail. beyond that, it's very hard to anticipate what other amendments might be brought to bear. so i'm certainly going to fight to make sure there is no infringement on second amendment rights of law abiding citizens if we can keep it to that level where we don't have that infringement then i think we have a real shot. >> here is the thing i would say. we have two other members that worked hard with me from the get go, mark kirk and senator chuck schumer. chuck put a bill out there and i said, chuck, i can't vote for the bill as you introduced it. he started working. it comes to the middle where we

found a piece of legislation that hopefully all of us can support. from the right or the left because it's so much common sense. to mark kirk and chuck schumer done so much my hat is off to them too and my friend pat toomey here, i couldn't have done it without him. >> great job, guys. chuck schumer has come to the middle. i remember an important op-ed he wrote in the "the washington post" months ago telling liberals they needed to be more rational and more moderate this issue and get things done. thank you guys so much. i know there's a long way to go but i'll tell you what. a lot of courage here and you're doing the right thing, trying to keep, you know, keep guns, with just talking about keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous criminals, mentally ill and al qaeda terrorists. >> it should be simple but we know it's not. thank you pat toomey and joe

manchin, very much. rick, stay with us. we will reveal the compelling cover of "time" minutes ahead. and joe biden will answer questions from our round table about guns in table and search for compromise in the debate over legislation to rein in the violence. up next, chuck todd is here with brand-new polling on the big issues topping president obama's agenda. those numbers are next. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks.

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♪ all right. joining us now nbc chief white house correspondent -- >> i'm angry. you know what? here i am a couple of days after my birthday and a day after chuck todd's birthday. happy birthday. >> thank you. >> much younger than me. >> not by much. >> i'm happy. here i am. a little sick. happy.

>> yeah, yeah. >> and chuck todd just brought up toog. >> sormething. >> sorry. >> that makes me so angry. you know what? we can take care of laguardia. >> we will handle it. >> i'm worried about long-term debt and i'm worried about my party being responsible. bring up what makes me so angry, i don't know what to do with my myself. >> talking about the great walden comment. a member of the house leaders p leadership. the guy trying to keep republicans in charge of the house head of the rcc and he attacked the president from the left. he was harsher than i think sanders was. what was the exactly quote sosa? he was an affront. essentially say the entire change of the cpi which a whole bunch of other republicans

support including john boehner and including a whole bunch of senate republicans. he seemed to telegraph that they were going to run against the president. >> let me just say now. anybody, any republican, any democrat that runs against responsible rational solutions to take care of our long-term debt is selling out our children, is stealing from the next generation. it's generational theft and for republicans to do this is beyond shameless. they did it in 2010. >> right. >> and to tell the president -- we have been busting his chops for months, put it out there. be responsible. the president has finally -- he just tips his toe in the water and greg walden comes swinging. this is shameless. i know greg. i like greg. but i'm just telling you, any republican -- you know what? i got to talk to phil griffin. i got to see if i can start a

pack and i can bloomberg these republicans and democrats that demagogued this. >> the answer is no. >> this is pathetic. >> it did expose a couple of things. you see how poorly this polls. they are looking at polls and you're driven by polls. the idea of changing social security is unpopular with seniors. it is unpopular. the republicans wanted the president to do this in part because they thought it would splinter his party and create a rift between him and some liberal democrats but they supposedly said they want it for this. if republicans want to deal with the president, don't condemn this. don condemn it. you can't blame if the white house says, we're out. >> what did you say, mika? if they do not is a greg walden

is long and this is not the position of the house leadership and the nrcc officially and that they are going to discourage their candidates from doing this, i say the president should walk away. it is shameful. i cannot condemn this enough. i'm going to be as tough on this issue as i've been on the president for not having the courage to talk about entitlements. republicans, you better speak out gets this right now. forget the politics. this is about the next generation. this is about generational theft and it is absolutely hypocritical. >> your party needs to learn how to do that to one another once in a while just to keep it clean. we got to get to the new cover of "time" magazine and then the poll numbers. >> i'm sorry. >> you made me mad. >> big story. >> if you were a back pincher that would be one thing. he runs the nrcc. this is an issue. i know john boehner. i know john boehner needs to speak out on it and i hope he

will. >> it shouldn't be hard. >> i'm sure paul ryan will speak out against this because this is so important to people like paul. i hope mark sanford on the campaign trail will speak out against this. i think he's got the guts to do it to condemn the nrcc while taking their money to win this race. mark, please condemn greg walden today and make news and show people your character as a public official. >> yes. >> come on, mark, do it today. >> speaking of the economy. rick stengel, why don't you tell us what is on the new cover of "time" magazine today. rick? take it away. >> it has nothing to do with greg walden. thanks for that segway. it's good news. it's about the manufacturing renaissance going on in america. it's not a story that a lot of people know about but manufacturing businesses, companies have created 500,000 new jobs the last three years. the difference is this is high tech manufacturing in a way that

we haven't had before and it means a growth in manufacturing but it doesn't necessarily mean a growth in jobs. what it means is the workers in these factories have to be higher educate and have to have at least two years of high tech education. and it is transforming business in america and the other part of that good news is something we have talked about prosecute. ener -- before. energy costs with going down because of the shale boom. it costs so much to ship the goods tow manufacture them in japan than to make them nearby and ship them locally. >> i was going to say, this is encouraging. you've talked about the decline of our manufacturing base for years, the impact it's having on working class americans and middle class americans. mike, think about it. i've never been more excited about america's future. i really haven't than i am today despite how bad the economy is. you look.

we have higher productivity and we are going to have lower costs than our competitors. we have this energy revolution. we have so many things going our direction. if the government could just get out of the way. mike, i think our economy is going to explode over the next decade. >> well, i got to tell you to put a face on this story we have talked about it endlessly on this program for the years, the death of american manufacturing. take us to schenectady, new york. the ge battery plan and the interconnection between making batteries there, the internet and the workers and the batteries are sold where? >> the batteries are sold in china. they are replacing batteries in high tech facilities in china and batteries are made all the a way back into the u.s. at a ge plant in schenectady. it's a clean plant that is 300,000 square feet and only a couple of hundred people work in it and the manager who runs it runs it off of an ipad.

the workers have a lot of education. today, high tech workers and factories, 57% of them have college degrees. that's very different than in the past. so the numbers of actual new workers is not going to grow as exponential on responsibility as we would like. it's really a good story. >> we are going to get to the polls we were talking about with chuck todd now and the debate over immigration reform and different look add america's views toward immigration. >> what we found in this you see everything has moved in the direction. immigration reform is going to get done as long as washington doesn't screw it up. and sort of mess it up. i say it this way. you have a large majority think immigration is a good thing and this is a growing number even when the economy is sour. when you think about it the economy has been usually when there is -- the economic anxiety people are anti-immigration

because they are afraid they are going to lose their job. when you talk about the path to citizenship if you don't put any penalties for the undocumented folks here and don't tell people there will be penalties for these folks you still want a majority want a path to citizenship. you say they have to learn english and get in the back of the line, republican support goes to 73%. >> wow. >> a path to citizenship. >> really? >> it's there. if the messaging is there, if they are talking about that the folks that are here, as long as they don't say amnesty and as long as they say there is a path that includes some penalties. it is just sitting there for them. that's why i say it's -- this will get done. guns is hard. the budget is hard. the public is divided on this. immigration, they are not divided if you lay it out a certain way, if you message it right. it's there. >> you can see the clear negotiation path. >> absolutely. 73%.

there is only 11% of everybody we surveyed that say these folks should never become u.s. citizens. >> it's funny. you end up with a piece of legislation but three different ways to describe it depending on who is doing the description. >> the description is everything. it is everything in getting this passed. >> chuck todd, thanks very much. see you coming up on "the daily rundown." rick stengel, thank you for the new cover of "time." >> this "time" magazine is he important for a people down on our economy and on this country. things look bleak right now. you talk about green chutes. you talk about america's future. this is an important article to read, isn't it? >> thank you, joe. what is also important is i brought you a birthday gift and i didn't know you weren't going to be here today. >> what is it? >> a lot of us didn't know that. >> it's mine now. >> it's an auto graphed picture of another happy warrior like yourself. ronald reagan when he won the governorship. there is the auto graphed

picture. it's from one happy warrior to another, joe. happy birthday. >> oh, my gosh! that huge! that is phenomenal birthday present! >> that's great! boy, thank you, rick, so much! i can't wait! >> okay. >> coming up, governor dannel malloy helped push through gun bans in connecticut. it's something senator dianne feinstein wants on a national level. coming up they both join us on "morning joe." this day calls you.

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i'm going to do that. >> okay. >> really quickly. >> yes, please. >> chuck todd, fascinating things going on was the nra. we think there is sort of internal dissent inside the nra only because conflicting statements. now they are going to score it. >> right. >> what is going on? joe manchin and pat toomey were not going rogue against the nra but working with them and talking to them. they sort of work and who is not a bomb thrower at all. >> chris is a great guy. >> they were working together. it seemed as if they knew that

there was there sort of we aren't going to propose it and something changes. you can't help but wonder is there a divide between the legislate guys in the nra and chris cox and his team and the guys who have to raise money like wayne lapierre. >> larry pratt on the cover of "the new york times." let me tell you something. nra opposed me my first campaign. guess who came in and supported me? >> larry pratt. >> larry and gun owners of america and it didn't mass whtt what the nra said. larry's letter trumped everything. sorry, larry. but they have that concern moving forward because you know what? i would hold larry pratt's letter up. so there's a huge divide there. >> up next, we ask vice president joe biden about the push to change the nation's gun laws and how he responds to victims of violence who say the proposals are not going far enough. we will be right back. all stations come over to mission a for a final go.

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♪ now for part two of our interview with vice president joe biden. in the last hour, we discussed the need for background checks. now the hot button issue of assault rifles and high capacity magazines. the panelest engage the vice president dreg including richard feldman. president of the independent firearms owners association and tina wilson-cohen and dr. cedric alexander, the police chief from dekalb county, georgia. and colin goddard, a survivor of the virginia tech shooting who was shot four finals in this. >> this was a great panel. >> it was. certainly everybody had a lot to offer. >> two of the four members were pretty direct with the vice president where they disagreed with him. >> good conversation.

here is part two of our exclusive round table discussion. so i want to broaden it a little bit to bring in our other guests because, obviously, good argument can be made that background checks would have done nothing to stop what happened at sandy hook. a ban on assault weapons, is that something, as a lot of our guests on the show from capitol hill have said, something that you'd like to work toward at some point? >> yes. well, look. i think certain represents of war just don't belong on the street. but, look. let's talk about sandy hook for a minute. i love the argument they say, well, there is nothing we are proposing could have done anything to change the circumstance at sandy hook. well, number one, the police got there in two and a half minutes. if there had only been ten bullets in each clip, he would have had to change the clip an additional three to five times. one of those kids would be alive. somebody would be alive just

statistically the probability is he just would not have gotten off 150 shots. not as many people -- and no one knows. so even if it just did nothing else, other than to save one of those kids' lives, what is the inconvenience? what are we doing? what are we doing to impact on a gun owners right if he only has a clip with ten rounds in it instead of 30 rounds in it? >> i'd like to bring in a unique perspective to this conversation is colin goddard. your senior year at virginia tech you were shot four times and you were one of seven in the classroom who survived that day. what are you thinking listening to this conversation and do you have a question for the vice president? >> i'm encouraged by kind of the level of agreement and understanding that we have about the issue of guns in america. yeah, 300 million already owned that we have to be responsible and be safe with those. i mean, we always talk about in these discussions of how can we,

you know, make us safer? we always refer to the last major shooting and what could we do to effect that one as opposed to all of the shooting has happened in this country in the past year and the ones that are going to happen. what happened in newtown is a case of a parent who left their guns accessible to their kids. you can't do that. you can't do that. with the legislation, how we could affect that, we can't necessarily stop that shooting but we could have made it far less lethal. we know 11 kids are alive today because they escaped when he paused to reload. when you have 30 rounds in a magazine you don't have to stop shooting people for quite some time, you lead to more deaths and so limits on the number of bullets you can put in a gun. any gun, i think. not just assault weapons but any gun, makes sense. we cannot stop every shooting but we can do better. we don't have to accept them as a part of something that, you know, the second amendment in our society. that's just not acceptable.

>> richard, could you jump in here? because you and tina certainly disagree with banning high capacity magazines and assault weapons. tell us why. and when you do so, speak for 40%, 50% of americans who agree with you. >> when our elected officials say we have to do something, we have to do something that is relevant to the problem and do it now. there are a hundred million high capacity magazines in america. banning the future sale of them is going to have no impact. the vice president said to us, the president said erg verythins on the table. i think it's time in this country we have an adult discussion about the role of the war on drugs and the role it plays in violent crime in america. >> tina, let me ask you, why do you oppose the banning of high capacity of magazines and assault weapons? >> i personally don't think that is going to be the issue. i think it's the mental health is the elephant in the room we kind of dance around.

the high capacity magazines aren't the issue. you know, we have the person that goes and purchases a gun and go through the background check. they are the legal abiding citizen. why should they go ahead and have to turn in a high capacity magazine or not be able to use a specific gun? i think we -- that is where we do start treading on a slippery slope when we go ahead and start naming certain guns that we have to ban or the high capacity magazines in which the gun does hold. >> mr. vice president -- >> a while no one challenged it and no one said it was unconstitutional. look. >> what about to richard's point where he said how many are already out there? >> a hundred million. >> so a hundred million. >> guess what? none of the kids who went out there and none of these people went out and did this serious high capacity -- i mean, excuse me these mass murders. none of them had those or went to someone who already with hone. they all purchased them. they purchased them as they

decided to engage in these -- this absolutely irrational act. that's how it happens. let's talk about the mentally ill. the mentally ill don't, all of a sudden, say i have a high capacity, i've had this high capacity magazine for the last 20 years or the last two years or five years. i think i'll go and kill some people. that isn't how it happen. the capacity is i have a severe mental disorder and i'm now going to kill a whole bunch of people so let me go get the material i need to do that. they go in the market and they buy that. they don't go to charlie or they don't go to tina and say, i know you have a whole lot of high capacity magazines, let me borrow one or let me -- that's not how it works. that's not how real life works. number one. number two, on the mental -- by the way, richard a absolutely

right. as you know, i was the author of the drug strategy. the truth of the matter is 60% of all violent crime in america is a consequence of drug abuse. the idea that we are not insisting that and they all agree, on extended background checks for the 40% of the druggees out there who go buy stuff and don't have to go through anything makes no sense. >> but, tina, as ceo and founder of seek and shoot i have to ask you the basic question and you can take it to the vice president. why does she need to shoot a bush master? why does that impact your second amendment rights? i don't understand. >> i understand what you're asking, mika. first of all, again, more of the women that i find that start shooting is because they feel more vulnerable. we live in a different age now. a different time where women do feel more vulnerable than ever because of the crimes that target females. we don't need a bush master to

protect ourselves but we have females who like recreatiognizr shooting. >> why a ban on assaulte weapon mean what you're talking you're be in some way, threatened. >> it would, i believe, affect our second amendment rights. because where do we start naming names of what kind of games we should be strict? you get into selective naming names of different guns. and i think, again, that is where we start infringing upon the second amendment right. >> it's a red herring. >> it really is. >> when we start doing out all the guns, we miss being able to discuss the problem, which is never the gun, per se, and is always in whose hands are the guns. >> look, the thing about, tina, about the weapons. we have, from the beginning, said certain kinds of weapons are not able to be owned. we make a judgment.

the society makes a judgment, the government. and no one's challenged it. we had an assault weapon ban for ten years. there was no constitutional challenge to it. we can argue whether -- we can argue its efficacy, we can argue whether or not it worked, but i can tell you what the chiefs say. 34% increase in the appearance of assault weapons since 2004 and in crimes, i can tell you what, in terms of home protection, you know, they make fun of my saying about use a shotgun if someone's invading your home. guess what, use a shotgun someone invading your home, you don't kill your kids. use an ar-15, it goes through your wall and it can kill your kid in the bedroom. >> the bigger issue, i'll, first of all, go to our twitter questions. and especially for tina and richard, which existing gun laws need to be enforced more? which is a fair argument, no? >> it's a fair question. you know, which of our gun laws need to be enforced?

well, against those who are misusing the guns now. that's not hard. we do have to balance, we have limited resources, law enforcement and mental health. we have to make intelligent, adult decisions about where to focus our resources. >> let me come back at you, then. what is not intelligent or adult, especially in this society, at the stage that we're at, about trying to restrict a gun that blows up inside the human body and tears it to shreds? >> well, i think, you know, all guns are capable of doing essentially the same thing. they fire a projectile at high speeds -- >> but you know what i'm talking about. >> that's actually not true. if you look at the bullets that were used at sandy hook, far different, far more destructive than something that's not coming out of -- >> so a .233 caliber bullet out of a bolt action rifle does exactly the same thing out of a semiautomatic when you're talking about a rifle. >> if that was bolt action, a

lot of those kids would be alive. >> well, in that particular instance, but as collin knows, he didn't have an assault rifle, he had a pistol, a commonly owned pistol that law enforcement carries across this country all day long. >> and he's still here, richard,. >> by the way, he's alive. >> i don't know if he would be here if there was a bushmaster being shot at him. >> unfortunately, again, it got into the wrong hands of the person. >> and that's really where we, you know, everything kind of falls apart. as you just noticed here, things kind of falls apart at that point. and i think we really have to get back to exactly what tina and i have mentioned earlier. and that is gun safety and responsibility making sure that gun owners, in essence, good gun owners, those who really respect the second amendment, is that they have an opportunity to take part in this whole safety process. but more importantly as well,

too, keeping those guns out of the hands of the wrong people. that is the real challenge here. that's the real conversation that somehow gets muddled in all the other things, which creates that kind of divide in conversation. >> i mean, what is the way that we keep guns from dangerous people? we do background checks. that's how we have this setup in this country. we only do it for some gun sales, currently. we need to do it for all gun sales. >> if you have 88% of the u.s. population, people in this country, who are saying, we support backgrounds, then, you know, on these -- for those who are purchasing weapons, then, i mean, i mean, what else is to be said? [ male announcer ] this one goes out to all the allergy muddlers. you know who you are. you can part a crowd, without saying a word... if you have yet to master the quiet sneeze... you stash tissues like a squirrel stashes nuts...

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coming up, advocates for gun reform find renewed ammunition in the words of an al qaeda spokesman who tells potential terrorists just how easy it is to buy weapons in america. that stunning tape is next, when "morning joe" comes right back. ♪ [ acoustic guitar: upbeat ] [ dog ] we found it together. on a walk, walk, walk. love to walk. yeah, we found that wonderful thing. and you smiled. and threw it. and i decided i would never, ever leave it anywhere. because that wonderful, bouncy, roll-around thing...

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i know, this does nothing to infringe the rights of law-abiding citizens. if it did, it wouldn't be for it. and i really feel pretty comfortable defending the proposition that it makes a lot of sense to try to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people. i'm very confident i can defend that. >> this bill doesn't allow government infringement, takes none of your rights away, doesn't take your guns away. and basically, it protects your right of the second amendment to own a gun in a lawful, abiding way. we have got, i think, a job that basically is going to do very, very much good for the american public. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. time to get up right now and your day will start well. >> don't be a nag. stay in bed.

>> just get up. let's take a live look at the white house. we're here in washington. back here on set with us, sam stein and melanie barnes. in new york, we have willie geist, mike barnicle, and reverend bill sharpton. >> it really is a big day. and you can't overstate the compromise and the power of the compromise that joe manchin and pat toomey have put together. here are two conservatives, manchin, without a doubt, the most conservative democrat in the senate. pat toomey, for my money, and i've said it all along, one of the true conservatives in the u.s. senate, from pennsylvania. toomey's a guy, and it bears repeating, while the rest of the party jumped off of the cliff, when bush was president, toomey remained conservative. he voted against an unfunded $7 trillion medicare drug benefit plan. he was a real conservative. he got elected in pennsylvania, a blue state. and this compromise is incredible.

guys like us, paul ryan, we respect pat toomey so much. that's why it's not a surprise that paul ryan yesterday said, i'll take my lead from pat toomey. >> we've got a lot on this to cover before we break it out to the panel. we'll start with that proposal on expanded background checks for commercial gun purchases, including those at gun shows and online. the deal does not call on chec s s on sales between neighbors and family members. both manchin and toomey have "a" ratings from the nra. they say it's the right thing to do. >> i'm a gun owner and the rights that are enshrined in the second amendment are very, very important to me, personally. my record shows this, but i've got to tell you, candidly, i don't consider criminal background checks to be gun control, i think it's just common sense. if you pass a criminal background check, you get to buy a gun. it's no problem. it's the people who fail a criminal or a mental health

background check that we don't want having guns. >> but the proposal is getting a mixed reaction from other members of congress. senator tom coburn says the manchin/toomey proposal is a good faith but unworkable plan. the proposal will impose new taxes and unreasonable burdens on law-abiding citizens. and in a statement, the nra said expanded background checks will, quote, not prevent the next shooting, will not solve violent crime, and will not keep our kids safe in schools. brand-new polling from nbc news and "the wall street journal" shows that while 55% of respondents are in favor of stronger laws on firearm sales, the number has dropped from 61%. the poll also shows is 82% of democrats are in favor of stricter gun laws while only 27% of republicans feel the same way. >> but here we are, again, mika. we're on a day where i think we're going to see historical gains made in protecting americans from gun violence.

it looks like, and again, pat toomey said this. and i will repeat it again. this is a 90/10 issue. >> yeah. >> and lots of luck to the republican in the primary that goes up against pat toomey and runs around the state of pennsylvania saying, pat toomey's not conservative enough, because he wants people that were convicted of violent rape to have a background check done on them before they buy a bushmaster. good luck to you, future republican candidate, and i will watch -- i will enjoy watching very much pat toomey and the people of pennsylvania crush your political bones to dust. it will be very -- it will be enjoyable for me. >> that will be interesting to watch. >> we talked with the vice president yesterday, which we're going to show, coming up, about a lot of issues. >> is that graphic? i'm sorry -- >> i don't know if you know this or not, but when it comes to politics, i've been very clear, i'm about winning. >> yes. >> i'm about winning. you need to win elections.

and what pat toomey has done, mika, he's assured himself a much better standing, not only with the people of pennsylvania, but with republicans in pennsylvania. because republicans and gun owners support stopping rapists and other violent offenders from getting guns over the internet. >> there's still so much more that needs to be done. we obviously talked with the vice president about other facets of this conversation, and it could go on for hours, if you think about it, because there are two or three other problems that play into the problem here. however, sam, politically, we saw movement. we saw something happen, finally. >> yes, this has been this long, elusive compromise and it's amazing that at the 11th hour it comes together. i credit joe scarborough alone for bringing joe manchin to the party and getting it done. but there's been a lot of drum beat on this and finally it happens. but there are still so many hurdles to come. this first vote on cloture will likely pass, but that only gets

us to the process of debating an amendment in the bill. >> they actually think they have the 60 votes. >> well, then, if that's the case, but they still have a major hurdle in the form of the house of representatives. and i'd be curious to hear what senator toomey says about what he would tell john boehner about bringing up this bill. because this all hinges upon john boehner feeling the pressure to actually bring legislation to the floor, which is a big question. >> so the thing is, obviously, you're going to have a lot of house members who want to see what happens in the senate. if this thing happens 85-12 in the senate, then most house members are going to go along with it. paul ryan's already out there saying he's going to follow pat toomey. you're going to have the photos in the house. and i don't think john boehner is going to risk his speaker ship on wayne lapierre's fantasies. and i'm dead serious. you know what, 12, 13, 14 house seats sound like a lot until it's not a lot.

and if you are -- if you piss off 95% of americans because you want rapists to be able to buy guns on the internet and you want people who have committed violent acts to be able the to buy guns on the internet without background checks, then you're going to lose middle america. and if you don't mind, melody, i had alex say something into my ear, this is what al qaeda has to say -- >> you know your background check system is weak, even when al qaeda makes a video pointing out how easily attainable guns are in the u.s. the website, buzzfeed, pointed out this 2011 video by american-born al qaeda spokesman adam gadahn, who is almost -- who is among the fbi's most wanted terrorists. take a look. >> in the west, you've got a lot at your disposal. let's take america as an example. america is absolutely awash with easily obtainable firearms. you can go down to a gun show at

the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle without a background check, and most likely, without having to show an identification card. so what are you waiting for? >> oh, my gosh. >> so, melody, again, one of the most wanted terrorists in the world telling people how to kill americans and talking about the loophole. does john boehner really want to be -- >> on his side? >> on the side -- not on his side, but on the side to making america more safe? >> right. that's chilling. >> that's chilling! >> it's stomach turning, actually, sitting here listening to that, first thing in the morning. and not only shouldn't he want it, hopefully he won't want it. because you already start to see signs of movement. the philadelphia area, republicans have already said that they support what manchin and toomey have put together. you know that there's going to be a bipartisan introduction of this bill in the house of representatives, with peter king and with mike thompson in the house. so we already see that moving

into place and i think sam is exactly right. they've got to votes for cloture today. that's the speculation. we'll have even a lot of delay tactics that slow this down, but it's hard to slow down something down when 90% of americans want it to happen. >> willie geist, it's a chilling al qaeda video talking about how you can kill a lot of americans because of the loophole. i'm talking about violent rapists, i'm talking about other violent criminals and you can get guns on the internet now without background checks. seriously, this is going to be one of those issues that are going to pass us by and we're going to look back and go, you know what, that really was never even close. it was just the nra trying to scare a lot of people. >> well, it does look like this piece of it, anyway, will get through. it is significant, it's probably good news that people like this will not be able to get their hands on guns, if it, in fact, goes through. but reverend sharpton, when you think about where we were in december, after the shootings at newtown, you could hardly have conceived of a more traumatic event in this country.

little children being shot in their own school. you probably would have expected something bigger, something more. there's not going to be any ban on weapons, there's not going to be a limit on magazine sizes. this is a partial, not a universal, a partial background check. certainly not the sweeping gun change some people had called for in the wake of newton. >> no, i mean, it's almost disappointing that we're at this stage where we're grappling with whether we can get this through and celebrating if we do. but we feed to make this first step. it would be even worse if this didn't happen or if it had been filibustered, as we assume it will not be. but clearly, when you think about where we were when newtown had happened, we never thought we'd have to struggle and have to make sense out of something this simple. and when we see this al qaeda spokesperson standing there, just saying, what are you waiting for? that this is almost an open invitation to terrorists, aside

from the people that joe mentioned, rapists and serial killers and people with mental disorders can get these weapons, i mean, i don't even know what there is to think about with this. we ought to be reaching much further to avoid newtowns, but if we can't start here, it's like putting a token in the booth. you can't even get on the train if we can't start here. >> mike, this is the cover of the daily news this morning. to reverend sharpton's point, "all for nothing," talking about all the pain and all the discussion that happened after newtown. the "daily news" calling this a soft gun deal. >> yeah, well, i've seen the headline, i haven't seen the sentiment, but we have sat here for several years talking about the polarization and the crippling effect it has on everything in washington, d.c. so i don't think it's that inappropriate to congratulate joe manchin and pat toomey for assembling something together. moving something forward. so i think we ought to focus on that. it is something. it's not everything.

it's not what we'd want. it's not what sensible people would want. but hopefully, it's going to get accomplished. there's another element to it that's going to be really interesting. and joe alluded to it earlier. if this passes the senate, and i assume it's going to pass the senate, we're told it's going to pass, and further debate will ensue, and further amendments will be debated, then it flips to the house. and i think it flips to the future of the republican party. does john boehner, specifically, stand up and say, i don't care what 90% of the people in this country want or what they think. i care what wayne lapierre thinks. that's going to be an interesting moment. >> it is a question that the republicans are going to have to answer. they want to be the party of ronald reagan or do they want to be the party of wayne lapierre. and the decision they make will determine if not their future for the next decade, certainly the future in 2014. i do want to just push back a little bit on what the "daily

news" said. this is not a soft gun deal. this is not nothing. this is huge. if you talk to people that really care about stopping gun violence in america, they will tell you that high-capacity magazines and assault weapons, those are great steps, if you can ban those weapons. those are more symbolic, really, than getting a background check system that is going to stop violent offenders. and i think sam made this point yesterday. if anybody, mika, had told us a year ago that we were going to close the gun show loophole, where terrorists could walk in and get an assault weapon and go out and kill americans, our internet sales, where violent rapists, child molesters, felons could go on the internet and buy assault weapons, everybody would say it wouldn't happen. this is not a soft deal. this is actually less symbolism. and it's one of these wonderful times, sam, in politics, where

the easiest thing to do may be the most important thing to do. >> so there's always been two conversations, right? there's instances of mass killing, in which an assault weapon ban does have an effect. in which a magazine ban does have an effect. >> and those are massive headlines. >> of course. >> and there is 90% of all gun violence, which is done via handguns, in which case you have things like the gun show loophole and the internet sales loophole that matter. and "the times" today has a big story about a guy who was just basically able to skirt around, go through the internet, get a gun, and used it to kill someone because he didn't have to go through a background check on the internet sales. these things don't get the headlines. of course, they do now, because we're debating it. but as it happens, you don't see the headlines. but these are the things that with respect to gun violence every day in america. and this bill will have more effect on that, than i think an assault weapons ban would have had on anything. >> right. when this debate started, this was the provision that everyone said needed the to happen. and if you look at the facts, 48% fewer gun trafficking cases, when you've got stronger background check laws, 38% fewer

domestic gun violence related issues. >> still ahead on "morning joe," part 3 of our exclusive roundtable with the vice president is coming upping in just a few minutes. his thoughts on the mental health component to this debate. and up next, two centrally important figures in this national conversation over gun violence. dianne feinstein and dannel malloy join the conversation. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> unfortunately, mika, we're talking cleanup in parts of arizona and new york. severe thunderstorms and tornadoes moved through yesterday amp and a lot of damage was done. thank t thankfully, no major injuries and no fatalities. it did destroy three homes and did a lot of damage to those cars. that was an 18-wheeler that was flipped and ripped apart. that's the warm side of the storm. now the cold air has moved into areas of the midwest and now it is snowing. areas up around minneapolis in the st. paul area, this is what the streets look live right now

courtesy of the weather channel. about an inch of snow in the last hour. temperature is 31 degrees with windchills in the 20s. we've already heard reports of as much as a foot of snow on the south dakota/minnesota border. so everyone on the east coast that's been enjoying this nice little warm surge, all that cold air is on the way for the upcoming weekend. so enjoy it while it lasts. 67 right now in d.c. you're one of the warmer spots on the map besides our friends in florida. the rain and thunderstorms are now lined up through louisiana. right now it's not severe. later on this afternoon, though, we do believe we are going to see some strong storms. everyone in the yellow, pretty much the entire southeast, including atlanta, including the masters in gust, we are going to see strong storms later this afternoon. those people trying to finish their rounds late today at augusta, those are the once that will will be dodging the raindrops and possibly even the lightning bolts. east coast, you're dry today. most of the rain will arrive here on friday. here's the timing of it. there's the storms today at 4:00 p.m., southeast, and a couple there in ohio. and as we go through friday

morning, heads up to everyone from d.c. up to new york city, philadelphia, baltimore, back through upstate new york, heavy rain tomorrow morning at 8:00 a.m. and that should be exiting boston by about 5:00 p.m. so it looks like a rainy friday up in the northeast. this afternoon, though, the threat is down there in the southeast. you're watching "morning joe." oh, that's ugly. we're brewed by starbucks.  few industries are changing more rapidly than healthcare.

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911, what's your emergency? >> there is a shooter with a gun. under the table, kids! [ screaming ] >> bloody children ran out of the school as shots were being fired. >> shocked and saddened by the news of the shootings at virginia tech. >> what does it take for us to change what we are seeing unfold before our eyes? >> they had their entire lies ahead of them. >> my child is gone. >> my little girl who was so full of life isn't coming home. >> that is a new add for moms demand action, a group calling for gun sense in america. pretty powerful. joining us here in washington now, democratic senator from california and the chairman of the intelligence committee, senator dianne feinstein.

and in new york, democratic governor of connecticut, governor dannel malloy. sam stein is still here with us in washington, along with mike barnicle and reverend al sharpton, back in new york. good to have you all with us. >> senator, this is an issue that has been very personal for you, going back to the mid-70s. how are you feeling now about some progress that's being made on the hill, hopefully, on the hill? does it go far enough or do you have a lot of concerns? >> i think the hill is way behind the nation, and i think every public poll shows that. i think the important thing is that people stand up and vote on these measures. the problems aren't going to go away, because we basically have a terrible regulatory system for these weapons. and everything has been done over the years by the pro-gun people to prevent an effective protocol for controlling these weapons. even to not letting the head of

the atf, there's no head right now. and mr. cordray, who's up for nomination, has been delayed. so everything is to work against an effective -- >> to stop enforcing the existing gun laws, which a lot of people will say, why don't we just enforce the existing gun laws. we have because, well, for a decade now, at least, there have been people on the hill that have been fighting to stop that enforcement. >> and can a terrorist currently buy a gun in this country? yes. can a felon? yes. and virtually no questions are asked. >> it's crazy. >> let's talk about the compromise right now that joe manchin is working with pat toomey about. what are your concerns? >> well, i haven't seen the bill, so i'm going to reserve my concerns. i only know what people have told me. everything is a step forward. you know, we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, as has been said. >> so let's, then, look at

connecticut. governor malloy, as you said, the rest of the country is way behind the hill, senator feinstein. >> way ahead. >> way ahead. connecticut appears to be as well, with the legislation that you have underway there, really, really tough gun laws compared to what's happening in washington. >> yeah, i'm proud of what we've done. we've moved the ball forward, i think, substantially, and for the nation, they can look at a state that's taken this thing on fairly seriously. of course, we had to. we owed this to 20 children and 6 adult es who were killed at sandy hook. i've gotten to know some of the families and they're wonderful people. we believe in what we're doing. we had an assault weapon s ban n this country, we limited the size of magazines, we did the right thing, and somehow we rolled that back. in a lot of staids, sudafed is more controlled than steal of guns. think about it.

>> that's hard. it's just ridiculous. reverend al? >> senator feinstein, you actually led the fight in the country and in the u.s. senate around this issue. if all we end up with is the background check, do you think that's a victory or are you disappointed because many of us feel it at least starts the train on the right track. but how do you feel, as the one that has led the country on this? >> well, reverend al, i think we are on a track. the question is to where. and it's not enough. i agree with that. what i've been surprised at, as the weapons grow more and more sophisticated over the time, and the kill power increases, and the availability of hundred-round drums that be fed into the weapons increases, that what you have is a situation and reverend, i've watched this over many years. these weapons are very

attractive to people who want to remedy a grievance, who just want to kill. they're drawn to these weapons. and they're not -- these weapons aren't hunting weapons. i mean, do you need a 30-round clip and an ar-15 to hunt? i don't think so. >> if you're a bad shot. >> well, that's a point. >> unfortunately, you just won't have any -- >> you don't have to aim. >> that's right. >> so i don't understand, and i never have, why this nation is better, how we protect our people better with these weapons being so easily available. so the bill that i have, which is close to the connecticut bill just signed by the governor, really doesn't take a weapon away from anybody. if they sell that weapon, there's a background check. if they keep that weapon, it has to be kept with a trigger lock and in the safe.

and it exempts 2,258 weapons in 96 pages of bill language by make and model. what it does do is dry up the supply over time. and i was thinking this morning that if mrs. lonza had bought -- wouldn't have been able to buy the gun during the period of time my last bill was in effect. so i have a hard time understanding the cycle pathology in all of this. and i think the fact that virtually every single poll done has shown that americans support a wide range of prudent gun regulation. and yet the fear, see, when i did this in the early '90s, there was no cloture. the view was, this is an

important issue. senators should stand up and debate it on the floor. that's why we're here. we should vote on it. and, in fact, that's what happened. there was a motion to table the bill. we won on the motion to table. the bill passed the senate. it went to the house. it passed the house, and president clinton signed it. >> mike barnicle, it's amazing how things have changed. you have wayne lapierre supporting background checks in 1999 and in 2000, george w. bush supported trigger locks, assault weapon ban, instant background checks. rereinforced that in 2004. all these people saying that the position that i'm taking now is a radical position. or what dianne feinstein just said about assault weapons, trigger locks, background checks is radical. really, rewriting history, mike, things have gone backwards over the last five, six years so now we have al qaeda terrorists say, kill americans. it's easy. just go to gun shows.

>> get an assault weapon. >> get an assault weapon. >> backwards at a too-rapid rate, i think a lot of people would suggest. governor, the connecticut legislation that senator feinstein referred to briefly outlined the connecticut legislation. and what was the toughest part of the push to get the legislation passed? >> i think the toughest part was this desire to do it on a bipartisan basis, cwhich took a lot of effort on the part of the legislative leadership to hold everyone in the room. this was negotiated by republican and democratic leadership. i was out, you know, doing town hall meetings and beating the drum. i had released a five-point plan that was really common sense. it was getting it over the goal line, with bipartisan support. and, in fact, i think to some extent, one of the reasons that things seem to be happening in washington is that at least one state did it with republican votes. and it's hard to separate the republican votes from the democratic votes. now, what's in it? i mean, you need a certificate to buy ammunition.

you have to be approved to buy an ammunition. we eliminate certain types of ammunition from being sold. we've raised the age with respect to buying guns. everyone has to go, undergo a background check. no additional assault weapons will be sold, can be sold in the state of connecticut, as i sit here, and we've limited the high-capacity magazines to those that are already present in our state. if you want to keep it, you're going to have to register. we'll have a program underway by august 1st that will allow that to happen. in essence, what will happen is that that cartridge, or that magazine, will be marked, probably with a bar code, and if you done have that bar code after a certain date, you're committing a crime in our state of connecticut. this is an aggressive package. i would have liked an out-and-out ban on large-capacity magazines. we didn't get that, but we got just about everything else. it is the toughest law in the nation. i'm very proud that connecticut moved forward, but we need it to move forward.

we are at the worst kind of these attacks. and we're going to see these happen at post offices is and at movie theaters and malls and schools again. let's keep making as much progress as we can make. and that's hopefully what will happen in washington. and we're going to come back to it. >> and joe, he's done this in a state that is home of gun manufacturers and firearms associations. it can be done. >> not easy. not easy to do. it's also not easy, senator, for democrats to talk about an issue that we've also talked about a lot. and that is violence in our culture. i've got three boys. two older. i've seen them growing up and i've seen their friends. and as a father, you know, you walk through the living room, and you see these images. just, these boys grow into young men, and they've seen thousands and thousands and thousands of simulated murders on video games, movies. you actually did something that really caught our attention a few days ago and you talked about, yes, we need to talk about guns, but we really need to start talking about violence

in american culture. why did you do that? >> well, because, i think the really violent video game becomes a kind of simulator to practice on. and it enables the individual to become more, much more familiar with that depiction of death and blood. of course, it's not the way it is in real life. >> right. >> so, i think that's very hard. a point, really want to say congratulations to connecticut. i know that's hard. and both senators blumenthal and murphy have been just real leaders on this issue, as well. do you know that there is assault weapons legislation now introduced in 20 states this year, in america? so it is happening, state by state by state. the problem is going to be that they're all different. and that's going to become a problem for so-called interstate commerce, after a period of

time. but i think, right now, it is the biggest thing in the nation. i spoke to people in california yesterday, who said that this dominates the news. and so people have an opportunity to think about where they are. if they really do believe that these weapons should be sold on street corners, out of trunks, at gun shows, without adequate background checks, and whether they should be able to fall into the hands of juveniles -- >> think about it and call your representative, for sure. senator dianne feinstein, thank you so much. and governor dannel malloy, congratulations. thank you. >> thank, dan! >> we'll be right back. are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule.

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all right. business before the bell right now with cnbc's michelle caruso-cabrera. >> the nasdaq as a 12-year high yesterday. the best three-day rally of the year for the markets. and this morning, we got weekly jobless claims that were better than expected, so that's pushing the futures higher. that means we could get more gains. these numbers, the weekly jobless claims very important today, because, remember, the last employment report, the monthly version, was very, very disappointing in terms of the number of people getting hired. that's what we're looking at.

how was that? 30 seconds? >> that was good. you're good. okay, michelle caruso-cabrera, thank you so much. up next, part 3 -- >> brian sullivan can't do that! >> are you kidding me? talking about music and himself and himself. >> and his ears. okay, up next, part 3 of or our exclusive conversation with vice president joe biden. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] this is joe woods' first day of work. and his new boss told him two things -- cook what you love, and save your money. joe doesn't know it yet, but he'll work his way up from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and game from the great northwest. he'll start investing early, he'll find some good people to help guide him, and he'll set money aside from his first day of work to his last, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade.

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vice president joe biden is leading the charge on the white house's push for comprehensive gun reform. and yesterday, we sat down with the vice president and that group of people closely invested in the debate. now we bring you the finally part of our exclusive roundtable discussion with the vice president. what to do about the mental health component.

>> one of the reasons why, it's not the sole reason, for the first time in human history, we think we should take significant public resources and map the human brain. that and the bottom of the ocean are the two uncharted places in the world. $100 million we're proposing. we should be doing a great deal to try to figure out what causes people to do really bad things. so one of the things that our friends on the other side have been doing since 2004 is attaching riders saying, you can't even go investigate. you can't go and say, gather all the data and what kind of crime is being committed with guns, what is the effect of the commission of those crimes with guns. >> is that changing now? >> we change that by executive order. >> and that's why we have this group here. i do want to try to focus into the point that you made. because i completely -- i think there's no one here who disagrees that the mental health side of this needs to be addressed for so many reasons.

and people who need help need to get that and our society needs to embrace these people, our problems, and try and prevent catastrophe like what we saw at sandy hook. which was textbook, without stigma. >> what's chief fletcher's take on this? >> i think the important piece in all of this, to me is, we start talking about the mental health component, being a clinical psychologist by training, the whole mental health component of this is very important. but i think it's two things we have to keep in mind. one is this. is that every person with a mental illness is not a criminal. >> exactly right. >> and everyone that's a criminal doesn't necessarily have a mental health condition. however, what we do know, what we do know, that in this country, where i think there needs to be a great deal of support coming from washington is that we need to enhance our mental health facilities across this country, because they have been losing funding across the country, both at the local and state level, that i'm certainly

aware of. >> amen. >> and i think that's a key piece to be able to identify these early signs of those who may be struggling with a mental health condition. >> mr. vice president, let me ask you this question. how do you protect the rights? because i have a lot of gun owners that ask me this question. we talk about expanding background checks. how do we protect the rights of somebody that's had some challenges, mental health challenges, because, you know, the first thing we want to do is make sure, unlike the virginia tech shooter, that they get the treatment, that they're not stigmati stigmatized, that they don't have to make the choice between getting mental health treatment and having their second amendment rights compromised? >> as the chief points out, you get mental health treatment now and it doesn't deny you the right to open a weapon, a gun. it's only if you are adjudicated by a court that you are the, the term is awful in the old law, it

says mental defective. only if you're adjudicated with a mental problem that leads the court to conclude you're a danger to yourself or society. no one else is excluded. and by the way, it's 118 days or thereabouts since sandy hook. 3,200 people killed on the streets with a gun since then. 3,200. they're gangbangers in drug trade, they are husbands taking out guns and shooting their wives or their girlfriends, they are -- but 3,200. >> so let's talk about that. we obviously have a violent culture. we've -- i've talked to you about this before. we've talked about how we believe mental health has to be addressed, guns have to be addressed. and also, our violent culture needs to be addressed. >> exactly. >> are democrats, are liberals going to follow the lead of

dianne feinstein and have the guts to stand up to powerful people that put violent pornography, as i call it, on the television, in movies, and especially on video games? are they going to stand up -- >> let me tell you, i brought all those folks in. i brought in the gaming industry. there were seven or eight of them, and i was told by them, this is art. and i brought in the movie industry. and the truth of the matter is, there are no definitive studies, as you may know, with your background, that says there's a causal connection. but there are some indications from some child psychiatric associations that it does alter behavior. now, what i suggest we do, and this is where liberals get angry, i don't know the answer, but i know we, as an informed society, should not be afraid of the facts. that's why i am urging the president to call for multi-million dollar investments at nih and other places that

bring the best minds in the world together to study this issue. we don't have an answer. to be -- for liberals, to be afraid of facts is as irrational as our conservative friends being, only talking about slippery slopes. >> collin? >> i mean, again, i agree with everything you said, vice president, and people in terms of mental health. that is a complex problem that's going to take a good bit of time to fix, to rebuild the infrastructure on a state level, because most of the stuff is state-level funded. video games violence needs to be researched. not just video games, movies, but this is a very real, short-term change that we can make now, that the senate is discussing now. that is making sure a background check is done on every gun sale. that is making sure we actually have a federal anti-gun trafficking statute for the first time. these are the real short-term things that we can do. we cannot lose focus on these long-term, complex problems that

we need to focus on. but right now, there is this short-term opportunity to make some substantiative change, to keep dangerous people and guns separate, via background checks, that we need to keep in the forefront of our discussions and keep in the forefront of this conversation, until we get it done. >> tina? >> is that fair? >> it is fair. it is fair. we need to find some common ground here, though. i think we need to focus on the mental health aspects, and aside from high-capacity magazines, we need to address the real issues. >> all right. mr. vice president, thank you so much. >> and thank you all for being with us. >> thank you! it was a great discussion. we really appreciate it. >> thank you. no, no, no, no. >> seriously. >> you have changed the debate in america. you. >> thank you so much. >> you. the two guys that deserve anything gets done, in an award here, are you and michael bloomberg. >> i don't know if that's going to help me in a future republican primary, but thank you so much! >> and probably won't help him

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the new new york is working creating tens of thousands of new businesses, and we're just getting started. to grow or start your business visit thenewny.com all right. it's time now to talk about what we learned today. >> what did you learn? >> i actually learned that we can have a really good civil conversation debate on the gun issue, but there's a long way to go. >> no doubt about it. what did you learn, sam? >> al qaeda has really good access to guns. who knew. >> mike barnicle, that's what i learned. that al qaeda has been advertising assault weapons -- i mean, how easy it is to get guns here. >> yeah, al qaeda has been telling the truth in that case. that's part of what i learned today. but the other part is, governor dannel malloy should really be commended, as well as