forgive him. he should have saved his money and polled his brother who says in the article, there was a doucheyness about him we don't see anymore. we still see it, anthony. we still see it. now the man who i know will vote for me if i decide to run -- >> toure, you are a -- >> he has more votes -- five votes right here. that's a good place to start. good afternoon, it's friday april the 12th. and if you want to get conservatives really mad, then speak the truth straight from the heart. ♪ >> our country has changed. >> focus groups describe their party as narrow minded. >> increasing support for marriage equality among americans. >> a lot of talk about what's happening in north korea and a lot of fear. >> this is a very dangerous business. >> the rhetoric that we're hearing from north korea is simply unacceptable. >> this guy is a clown. he's a fool. so is his father and so is his

grandfather. >> the gun control debate, though, is officially on the senate floor. >> it's naked exploitation of dead children. >> for days after dylan was killed, i was so filled with grief i felt unable to move. >> grieving families. it's play acting. it's feel goodism. it's play acting. it's playing aing. it's play acting. it's play acting. >> how would you like to be a republican in one of those shrinking swing districts that voted against keeping guns out of the hands of al qaeda terrorists? in a fitting wrap to a big weekend in politics, there are no shortage of developments this hour. at a critical juncture, the president is keeping up his gun safety push by handing over his weekly address to the mother of a little boy killed at sandy

hook. as lawmakers prepare to debate gun legislation next week. secretary of state john kerry is in seoul. where he said a north korean missile launch would be a huge mistake. we'll have more on that threat just ahead. but we begin with hitting the refresh button on republicans' re-branding effort. should they go mod, should they go metro? someone needs to call in don draper, because they cannot seem to figure it out. six months after the drubbing in the 2012 elections, republicans from around the country are gathering for their spring revival meeting in where else, the conservative bastion of hollywood, california. perhaps after reince priebus's "autopsy" the party is looking for an extra script writer to bring them back from the dead. guests at the three-day meeting include mia love, a black republican mayor from utah, as well as the great allen west. losing congressman of florida. unless you think that gop

activists might be led into temptation by the debauchery and l liesensuousness of hollywood, never fear. the party unanimously approved 12 resolutions including one that reaffirms the party's opposition to same-sex marriage. now, that is what you call a makeover. they've heeded the warnings of social conservative tony perkins who joined a dozen like-minded others in sending a letter directly to rnc prince charming, charming prince, sorry, reince priebus. "we respectfully warn gop leadership that an abandonment of its principles will necessarily result in the abandonment of our constituents to their support." if that wasn't enough, mr. perkins put other's money where his mouth is. in a letter to his supporters obtained by cnn, "until the rnc and other national republican organizations grow a backbone

and start defending core princip principles, don't send them a dime of your hard earned money." if you want to invest in the political process, give directly to candidates who reflect your values and organizations you trust like frc action." frc action being tony perkins' group, of course, so that's convenient. i guess they didn't care to look at new numbers from our nbc news/"wall street journal" poll showing a double-digit swing in support for same-sex marriage. 43% are in favor of allowing it. 42% opposed. never mind, as the gop sees it, why make a sequel when you can just replay the old favorite? let's get right to our panel. with us from washington is msnbc political analyst and georgetown university professor, michael eric dyson. and here in new york is msnbc political analyst jonathan alter, a columnist for "bloomberg view." professor, hooray for hollywood. the rnc is doing it up in style,

dressing up their same old platform in a brand new coat and tails. i thought we were going to get extreme makeover uncut gop and instead this seems like c-span reruns of ralph reid's greatest hits. >> absolutely right. to put it into historical concept, they're looking for next ronald reagan or charleton heston but they're stuck with bedtime for bonzo. the reality is this, the republic chance in two measures are out of step. first of all, the polling that indicates 53% of american people are behind gay marriage, that a man and a man or a woman and a woman should be able to marry each other and love each other in a court with their own divinely appointed principles of charity toward each other. on the other hand, even if the polls were horribly against it, it's a moral position. during the civil rights movement, i'm sure many americans weren't in support for civil rights for african-american people, but the nation eventually caught up. so it was the moral principle that was critical here. so both in terms of the po

polling -- >> professor dyson, many people including mr. perkins would say that they are upholding a moral principle in their commitment to heterosexual marriage and heterosexual marriage alone. >> no doubt. no doubt. i think that this is -- this is the problem. the distorted morality that they argue from. i'm arguing that on moral basis, their so-called immorality is suspiciously unjust and immoral and doesn't recognize the full personality of the other. it doesn't respect the other person. somebody who disagrees with you. somebody who doesn't have the same race or sexual orientation or religion or class or region and the like. i think that kind of moral principle is something that's reprehensible. let's be open to and accepting of and tolerant of those who are different and support them with the full measure of both our civic equality and our religious and moral sensibilities. >> john, to professor dyson's point, former republican operatives liz mayer and marco nunez warned against this in the "new republican" online.

i'm quoting. "we firmly believe that passage of the resolution would be a significant setback in terms of party unity and branding and would move the rnc further into a function that is outside its primary purpose, winning elections." and, yet, they affirm the position of the old. >> they're in a bind. you know. >> you could say that. >> michael eric dyson was talking about old ronald reagan movies. he titled his first memoir when he was still not in politics yet, a line from a film, was "where's the rest of me?" that was reagan's memoir. and the question now is, where's the rest of the republican party going to be? this is going to be a struggle for the soul of the party, and, you know, on what they stand for. until now, for a generation, the party platform, which doesn't get a lot of attention, but it is basically what they stand for. >> yes. >> and dominated by far right conservatives. no abortion even in cases of

rape and incest, that kind of thing. the question now will be, since the american public has made it clear that they've left that behind, all those extreme positions, they're not going to win a majority of the new america. so the question is, will there be a struggle over what it means to be a republican? and will the social conservatives leave, or if the social conservatives win, will establishment republicans say, you know what, it's going to take us a couple cycles to get back in the game, but we need to create a new and mainstream republican party. >> wow. we did invite tony perkins on to this show, but he was busy perhaps learning how to work paypal. speaking of the old guard, professor dyson, along with former vice president dick cheney, one of the speakers at this revival will be david horowitz, author of such great works as "hating whitey" and other progressive causes. is that outreach in your book, sir? >> that's reaching out beyond

the pale, lets rreality. i've defended horowitz, acrimonious descent from my beliefs. david horowitz is one of the most bigoted in america. this is part of the republican bigotocrocy. hr wi it's one thing to have them, it's one thing to idolize them. bigotry doesn't see beyond the parameters of its own. here david horowitz is the wrong kind of person to reach out to. when jonathan alter talked about will the republic chance have an internal debate about the future and who will actually influence them, they're making precisely the wrong decision at the wrong time. not only will they lose elections, they will lose the american public who stands behind them, some of whom have conservative values even if they vote more progressive in terms of their politics. they're losing on the political

end and the social and moral outlook here. i think it's pretty bad news for them. >> before democrats get too jubilant, off-year elections in recent times have favored republicans. >> yes. >> remember, in -- >> 2010. >> in 2008, 130 million people voted. in 2012, 125 million americans voted. in 2010, only 80 million americans voted. 50 million stayed home from 2008. so the question is, will all those folks who showed up at the polls this past november, will they come back in 2014? if history's any indication, a lot of them won't. that will spell trouble for democrats and would help republicans. >> right. professor, i must ask you this, because you're an educator and you're a proud african-american. you know that the great rand paul went to address the university, howard university. >> right. >> could he be the great white hope of the future for the gop? i mean, what are your thoughts? >> boy, the george -- look, this

guy lacks, you know, he's tone deaf. he lacks an ability to understand where he is. going to howard university and trying to rehearse the history of race with them, denying his own party's errands, you know, errant behavior, and his own, you know, amnesia about his own kind of behavior. i don't think rand paul is the messenger here. and, you know, to jonathan alter's point, you know, the party that's in often has the people who are much more lax da laxidazical. they're galvanizing a base that tends to lay off in midterm elections. they're rallying the troops. i think women, african-americans and latinos among many other groups and gay and lesbian, bisexual, transgendered people are going to get mobilized because of the resistance of the republican party to step into the 19th century. >> professor michael eric dyson. thank you. that wasn't an accident.

jonathan alter, thank you both. next, the state senator who wanted to tie a family's aide to a child's grade has now dropped his bill. we and an 8-year-old girl may have helped persuade him. stay with us. >> i'm worried about the cut off. >> that won't happen if you have a parent who's willing to show up at two conferences.

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on this very broadcast, exactly one week ago, we challenged a far right republican lawmakers from tennessee to defend an idea that has deeply offended many americans. the proposal, if you really want to call it that, was to cut

public assistance to poor families by 30% if the children of those families were having trouble at school. the author of this nonsense is state senator stacey campfield. a simple man who specialized in stigmatizing gay people when he isn't busy stealing bread from the mouths of little children. the house democratic chair in tennessee, mike turner, has called your proposal, i'm quoting him, bigotry at its best. do you have a bester description for your proposal than that? bigotry at its best. >> i call it -- sure, i call it parental involvement at its highest level. >> now, you might think that despite his robust defense on this broadcast, he might be a little more gracious when faced with a child from his state, an 8-year-old girl, no less, who's anxious that his proposal will mean no more electricity in her home. you might think that, but take a look at this video from the

"tennesseean" newspaper. >> have a nice day. >> we have something to say to you, senator campfield. you are so weak to not listen to a child. >> why do you want to cut benefits for people? >> well, i wouldn't as long as the parent shows up to school and goes to two parent/teacher conferences and they're exempt. >> aamira, what are you worried about? >> i'm worried about the cutoff. >> that won't happen as long as you have a decent parent who's willing to show up at two conferences. excuse me, hang on a second. >> what about middle class children? >> wear him out. wear him out. >> yeah, i'm sure you want the props. >> i can't believe you would refer to a child as a prop. that is offensive, senator campfield. >> joining us now is my colleague, toure, co-host of "the cycle" and msnbc contributor jonathan capehart of the "washington post."

i'd just like to note for our viewers and you, jonathan, you can see the full video of this exchange, if that's what you want to call it, for the website of the "tennesseean." it's very long. john, you had a chance to watch the entire thing. is that how elected officials are supposed to respond to members of the public, especially children? >> no, a very savvy public official would have listened to the little girl, would have listened to the adults who are with her, would have shown some empathy and understanding and not try to evade questioning and cameras with the old politician ducking into an elevator to escape scrutiny play that he showed there. >> yeah, he was pretty fast, wasn't he? toure, there is a happy ending to this story, because senator campfield has now drawn his bill because he couldn't get enough support from republicans. in the words of the republican leader in the state senate, i'm quoting, "you can say withholding the money from the

parents doesn't harm the child, but you're fooling yourself." >> if it was this easy to get people to back off bad bills we should employ more kids as lobbyists, that night not be a bad idea. he makes it sound like if you show up to two parent/teachers conferences, that's all you have to do, and you're exempt. if you can't do that, you're not a decent person. i've talked to principals who say, why can't johnny's parent show up for any of these meetings? >> they're doing two jobs working 18 hours a day. >> absolutely. they can't just take off from their job to go to these sort of events even though they want to. this whole idea of tieing a child's -- how they do in school -- it makes the child like a worker in the family. >> of course. >> can you imagine the family dynamics when you bring home your grades and it's like, well, you didn't do so well here, we're mad at you or need to force you to do better. there's a lot of reasons why the kids aren't doing better. might have something to do with the teachers, nutrition.

might be a holistic approach and making them into little workers is not the answer. >> jonathan, i just want to note this little girl, 8-year-old aamira, was being cheered on by a choir of 60 people. some of them were clergy. they were singing "jesus loves the little children." and it's giving me some faith that david can, indeed, triumph over goliath. does it make you feel the same way? >> well, certainly, what it shows me, martin, is that people, and the american people in this particular case, folks in tennessee, aren't going to sit back and let some whackadoodle member of their state legislature propose, you know, all sorts of draconian pieces of legislation that have impact on real people. they're not just going to sit back and let that happen, pretend like this guy can't possibly be serious. they're taking folks like him seriously. and they're challenging them. which is exactly what they should do. >> absolutely. >> you know what aamira means, right?

princess. so i mean, like, she's already leading us in this sort of royal way. how she comports herself is amazing. what i want to see is not children having to be responsible for their parents, as this bill is talking about. but the opposite, pamela harris who we talked about last friday, proposed legislation, if you don't go to school, if you don't attend school, if you are truant, your parents may be prosecuted after being warned. the parents are being legally forced to care about the children, not the other way around. >> a question to both of you, what do you think of a politician referring to a child as beautiful and a name that means princess as your prop? >> okay. that's enough. john, your reaction? >> i echo's tour e's response. coming up, sean hannity and the bullies of the nra prove no match for families traumatized by tragedy. stay with us. >> though sometimes the waves of

sadness are so great they threaten to drown me, i stand before you now and ask you to stand with me. with all the families. >> it's naked exploitation of dead children and grieving families. it's play acting. it's feel goodism. welcome to the new new york state, where cutting taxes for families and businesses is our business. we've reduced taxes and lowered costs to save businesses more than two billion dollars to grow jobs, cut middle class income taxes to the lowest rate in sixty years, and we're creating tax free zones for business startups. the new new york is working creating tens of thousands of new businesses, and we're just getting started. to grow or start your business visit thenewny.com at a hertz expressrent kiosk, you can rent a car without a reservation...

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from the resolve of parents, to the reluctance of senators. here are today's top lines. week in review. >> the majority of americans now support amnesty. >> maria, how do you say this in spanish? grilled cheese. >> i don't know. >> senior presidente barack obama. the time is now. >> may i call you billy jeff?

>> when if cot comes to deficit reduction, i met the republicans halfway. >> wraps himself in tinfoil while doing the robot. >> how do you see this meeting us halfway? >> you need facts about rap, come to me. >> i turned havana into atlanta. >> why not sandals? >> all inclusive. >> the president did not communicate with jay-z. >> home perm cautionary tale rand paul. >> fell apart on the washington metro's green line and ended up at historically black howard university. >> how did that party become a party that now loses 95% of the black vote? >> remove the vanilla bean from the hot chocolate. >> if i would have said, who do you think the founders of the naacp are, would everybody in here know they were all republicans? >> yes. >> calm down. red team, start the car. >> brothers don't even drive linke lincolns anymore. >> we were in the 1950s and '60s a better country? >> how do you know this person would not obey the law? >> because of mass shootings by crazy people.

>> you call me crazy? >> he left the smaller capacity magazines at home. >> there's no evidence anything would have changed. >> guns everywhere. >> reminds me of the clowns at the circus. >> somebody else's community until one day you wake up and it's not. >> it's play acting. it's naked exploitation. >> we don't need to fix something that doesn't need fixing. >> to make a blanket commitment would be irresponsible on my part. >> what are we afraid of? >> hydeia pendleton was me. >> my child is gone. >> i, myself, bought extra guns, extra ammo. >> we want a vote! >> sadly, taking advantage of the horrific tragedy. >> the whole thing is grotesque. let's get right to our panel now. joining us is larry ward, chairman of gun appreciation day. democratic strategist julian epstein. and david seroto, author of "back to our future." thank you, all. larry, i'm sure you're aware of a texas congressman named steve

stockman. he's republican lawmakerses who unerring sense of decorum allowed him to invite ted nugent to his address. today he tweeted out this bumper sticker for his campaign next year. it said "if babies had gun, they wouldn't be aborted." so is that the new slogan, larry? a chicken in every pot? a bushmaster for every baby? >> hello? >> hello, larry. i'm sorry. >> i lost audio. >> did you hear what i said? i quoted the great steve stockman and his magnificent new bumper sticker that said the "if babies had guns, they wouldn't be aborted." oh, dear. okay. don't worry. mr. ward, are you still with us? okay. david, what's your reaction to that kind of a statement by steve stockman? >> well, look, i think what it actually shows is that our politics are becoming more polarized and you see now

politicians are essentially echoing what they hear in some of the most polarized right wing political media. that essentially -- >> polarized or stupid? >> well, both. both. i mean, you have essentially a right wing megaphone that has been demagoguing every single issue and especially the immigration and gun issue. and so what you see now is a conflation where what you hear in that right wing echosphere is now being said by elected officials. that's what's disturbing about this on top of just the sentiment, that is a united states congressman. >> right. julian, the white house -- the white house says that francine wheeler, mother of a 6-year-old boy killed at sandy hook, is going to deliver the president's weekly radio address this weekend. now, republicans have attacked the president for what they call exploiting the newtown families. but is that exploitation? i mean, or is it just letting the mother of a slain 6-year-old child have her say? >> well, these are very over the

top reactions from the political right that i think you used the right word, they're very politically stupid. it's not just the abortion comment you asked david about. it's the repeated attacks on the victims of newtown and their families. for trying to stop the kind of tragedies from occurring to other families. it's the attack on the president's daughters. it's this suggestion that martin luther king would have been for arming the citizens when, in fact, martin luther king said we should fight back after his house was bombed with christian love and not with guns. these are the silly comments that i think are the basis for a very strong political movement in favor of gun legislation. you know, when we look back at what happened on marriage equality, on immigration, the politics on these issues changed very, very quickly because politicians saw that the politics of being on the wrong side of those issues were not good politics. here what i think is going to happen in the near future, within the next three to five years, is that the silent majority on guns is going to be a majority that votes on the gun

issue. when they start voting on the gun issue, politicians in washington will start changing enmass, as happened in those other two issues, and these kind of idiotic statements going after the families of the victims of newtown is exactly what's going to change that silent majority into a voting majority on this issue. >> can i add one other point to that? that i think that these kind of comments have a boomerang effect in sense that a voter who may not be interested in these issues at all, when they hear the republican party making such comments, they say, you know what, i wasn't even interested in this and now i don't want anything to do with you. >> mr. ward, do you believe, i'm so glad to have you back, i'm sorry we had sound problems earlier. forgive us for that if you will. >> no problem. >> do you believe that these families are being exploited by simply speaking up? >> no, actually i would go against that. i would say that, you know, these families can say and act any which way they want to express their grief, anger and trust ration. you know, i don't necessarily agree with them, but make no mistake about it.

this is not about victims' rights. this is about legislation that is out there to take our right to defend ourselves and the right, our right to due process. >> what legislation is that, mr. ward? i haven't seen that. i haven't seen a single -- forgive me, sir. i haven't seen a single piece of legislation where your right to bear arms is explicitly described. can you show us? >> did you see the new york safe act? did you see what is happening in new york where guns are being confiscated after, after governor cuomo said, no, there's going to be no confiscation, guns are being confiscated now based on people that take anti-answer anxiety medicine. >> you mentioned colorado. i'm curious. are you of the belief that essentially enforcing federal law and saying that domestic violence, people convicted of domestic violence, should be able to have weapons? because you're making the argument we hear from republican legislators out in colorado it

would be confiscation. is that your position? >> my position is very simple. it's the mental health litmus test i'm most concerned about. is that you can't take guns away from people because they go to the doctor. because they come back from war and they see a doctor about ptsd. you can't take away guns from somebody who's taking antianxiety medication. that's called precrime. there's no knew process to, therefore, take away -- and i'll tell you something. this station should be up in arms about it because the fourth amendment is supposed to be a liberal -- >> mr. ward, one second. thank you. i just want julian to interrupt. thank you, mr. ward. >> let's get into the -- let's get into the basic arguments that the gun merchants and surrogates are making. they're saying the background check legislation on capitol hill is unconstitutional. if that is the case, larry, why haven't the gun merchants and surrogates challenged constitutionally the existing background check system? they haven't because they know they'll lose. the second argument they're making is that we have that the

legislation will impinge on the right to self-defense. we have 30,000 gun-related homicides every year. of that 30,000, only 250 of those are committed in self-defense. less than 1%. 99% of the gun homicides in this country are done as criminal acts, suicides, or where there is an innocent person involved. so the self-defense argument is demonstrably wrong. the third argument the gun merchants make is the gun laws will impinge on the right of the citizensy to fight a terranria government. these are three absurd arguments, the three central issues that are on the table. they're the arguments the gun merchants are losing. that is why the majority is shifting rapidly against the gun merchants. >> you don't understand the argument. >> mr. ward, please response specifically if you can, because this will be very helpful to our audience, to what julian just

said. >> i'll say you don't understand the arguments at all. what i will say is that number one, you know, you mentioned 30,000 homicides and then you curtailed it by saying homicides and suicides. there are two different issues. number two -- >> okay, let's take that on. >> -- there are not 30,000 homicides in the u.s. caused by -- >> 30,000 gun-related deaths. 10,000 criminal homicides. of those, only 250 in self-defense. so overwhelmingly all of the homicides that occur with guns in this country, larry, are criminal acts. a tiny, tiny percentage are acts of self-defense. a tiny percentage. >> you expect criminals with murderous intent to go to a gun store and go through a background check? >> no. but we know for a fact that criminals -- no, let me finish that point, martin. we know for a fact that 80% of the crimes that are used, larry, 80% of the guns that are used in crimes are bought without a background check system. so what you, my friend, and what the republican party has become is an enabler of criminals and enabler of terrorists by

designing a system that criminals take advantage of. mostly try to find guns where they can't -- where they don't have background checks. >> larry's argument boils down to this. because the laws against murder don't finish -- don't prevent all murders, we shouldn't have laws against murder. >> of course. >> it's a terrible argument. it doesn't make any sense. >> that's a ridiculous argument. the laws against murder are -- >> mr. ward, we will have you back again soon. i'm sorry we've run out of time. i don't think you responded to julian, but we will have you back soon. gentlemen, thank you. we leave you with rush limbaugh on the families of newtown being used like human shields. yes, take a listen. >> what the democrats do, folks. they always try to hide their agendas behind women and children and most of all, victims. and so the newtown parents are human shields in a sense. the newtown parents are out

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because i'm a pig driving a convertible? tail light's out.. fix it. digital insurance id cards. just a click away with the geico mobile app. we learned a short time ago that secretary of state john kerry will be testifying on capitol hill next week. where one of the topics undoubtedly will be the continuing war talk that's coming from north korea. mr. kerry arrived in seoul this morning less than 24 hours after a member of the armed services committee revealed a key line from a recent pentagon report which said that its intelligence agency had, "moderate confidence in the hermit kingdom's ability to successfully launch a nuclear-laden missile." a news conference today, mr. kerry gave the north a firm and direct message. >> the rhetoric that we're hearing from north korea is

simply unacceptable. we will defend ourselves. and kim jong-un needs to understand, as i think he probably does, what the outcome of a conflict would be. >> joining us now is nbc's kristen welker at the white house. good afternoon, kristen. director of national intelligence james clapper immediately tried to tamp down the noise surrounding this report. what is the white house saying in regards to this? does the white house agree with this assessment? >> reporter: well, martin, the white house is also trying to tamp down anxieties about this report today during the daily briefing. press secretary jay carney said that it is this administration's understanding that north korea does not have the cape capabilities to launch a nuclear attack and reiterated the fact the military built up defense systems in recent weeks preparing to defend itself and allies in the region from north

korea. again, they are watching this situation quite closely. the white house's strategy is to tamp down concerns about this. if you talk to experts, people who have been studying this region for quite some time, they will tell you that these latest provocations do feel different than past provocations because they have been so consistent and because this leader is young and there is not a whole lot known about him. and there is a lot of concern that he might be unpredictable. so those are the concerns, but, again, the white house also trying to tamp down anxieties, not releasing, though, the larger context of the report and that is something that reporters asked for during the briefing today. >> i'm sure they did. kristen welker, thank you. for analysis let's bring in democratic congressman peter walsh of vermont who handles issues of national security. good afternoon, sir. >> good afternoon. >> you deal with issues of national security, so when you read about this line, moderate confidence in north korea's

capabilities, what does that tell you? >> well, nothing that you didn't already know. i mean, there's two facts about -- >> really? >> two facts about north korea that are well known. nuclear north korea is dangerous. they have an active program. and that assessment puts an exclamation point on it and creates a lot more anxiety. because you don't really know what it means. bottom line, you do know north korea is a nuclear power that -- the second thing you know is it's kind of a nutty operation over there. you've got a leader that is young. 30 years old or so. and is very provocative. most analysts think that the fear of this is about him trying to consolidate power, show the military he'll put them first when it comes to the resources in north korea. to some extent this creates a lot of i think tension here in congress because what does it mean? but it doesn't really change the

concern that we've all had in and the administration has had about a nuclear north korea and whether it has some kind of delivery system and whether they're getting closer to it. >> okay. congressman, let me play you something that john mccain said thursday about a possible north korean launch. take a listen to this. >> if they fire off another test missile, the mid-range missile, whether it fwogoes in the ocean wherever it goes, what do we do next? >> i would take it out. >> we'd probably take it out. then say, we got it and that's the end of it? >> then we would show young kim jong-un we can take out his c e capabilities, show that to him. >> do you agree with that assessment that we would need to strike? >> i don't. the thing about senator mccain has a lot of confidence in the striking capacity and the definitive outcome of the military operation. what i think history has shown us is that there's been a carelessness in looking at unintended consequences.

i mean, iraq is a very good example. incidentally, the dia assessment. you have to have some skepticism here. they are the folks who assured us iraq had a nuclear weapon. this moderate degree of confidence over there, we don't really know what it means, but to be suggesting that we pull the trigger on a military operation right now, i think, probably justesque la esqucalat rhetoric and is not a positive. i think senator kerry was very firm and very clear that there are u.n. conditions that north korea is violating. if they do anything that results in a conflict, north cree wrkor know what the outcome will be. he's making it clear the u.s. will protect itself and protect its allies. >> congressman peter welsh, sir, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. stay with us. we have much more ahead. ♪ [ female announcer ] from meeting customer needs...

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any way you read the polls on the public's view of abortion, the nation is still a little unsettled on this contentious issue. currently a slight majority doesn't favor it. a few months ago, a slim majority did. common sense policy answer then would be to walk slowly and cautiously in this arena. but no. virginia's republican attorney general has successfully arm twisted his state's board of health to have effectively closed many health centers that provide abortion. a patent we see in other states including north dakota where today a bill outlawing abortions after 20 weeks was sent to the governor's desk. indeed, this blatant subversion of the public's will does make a comment like this from paul ryan seem all the more deeply cynical. >> we don't want a country where abortion is simply outlawed. we want a country where it isn't even considered. that's the kind of america we want.

>> joining us now is krystal ball, my colleague and the co-host of "the cycle" and lois melli in melling. that january poll said that 70% do not want to touch roe v. wade. they don't want it overturned. at the same time, we see politicians at the state level doing the diametric opposite. what's going on? >> it's a crazy period. it is a war on women. and we see politicians acting, extreme politicians working to outlaw abortion and outlaw the clinics that -- they're clearly playing to their base, not the public. when you talk to the public, you get 70% reaffirm roe v. wade, the decision that upheld the right to abortion. when you put a vote out to the voters in mississippi, south dakota, the voters reaffirm they don't want abortion. >> yet state after state after

state we see doing these kinds of things. >> it's a measure of the extreme. it's the extreme politicians playing to their base. >> right. krystal, let me play you something else paul ryan said. here, he's actually talking about crisis pregnancy centers funded by anti-choice factions. just take a listen to this. >> these centers serve about 2 million people a year. they offer adoption services. testing and treatment for stds. ultrasounds. parenting classes. counseling. you're not just protecting the innocents, you're helping the needy. >> isn't that, krystal, exactly what planned parenthood centers provide often to low-income women, but of course, he opposes planned parenthood? >> yes, absolutely. he only oppose -- he only supports the ones that have the ideological agenda he agrees with and the centers he's talking about frequently use very misleading marketing. they don't say what they're really about. and then their whole goal is to counsel a woman out of making a particular choice.

great example, in texas, planned parenthood, the abortion services are completely separating from the education and the std testing services. totally separate. yet texas has gone after planned parenthood in total defunding even the education and the std and that aspect of what they do. so they go after it with a zeal, and the other part of this that i think is really disingenuo ii is not only do they say you don't have the right to make that choice about wyour body, bt they don't support family planning services so you can prevent unattended pregnancies. there are no support for families who are struggling or moms who are struggling. they really cut women off in terms of the life choices that they're able to make. >> conservatives keep drawing a very strange line between slavery and abortion. in his speech, paul ryan used lincoln as an example for

fighting what you believed in and last year virginia's attorney general said start right at the beginning, slavery. today, abortion, you know, history has shown us what the right position was. what are these people getting at when they try to make a correlation between abortion and slavery? >> i can't -- i can't speak for these people. what i can speak to is what people want. people want women able to make the most fundamental and personal decisions about what to do with their pregnancy. people don't want those choices being made by politicians. those should be made by families. and what we're calling for in the face of this is for people to speak up to our rights. >> the absolutism and extremism. >> krystal ball and louise melling. thank you for joining us. all stations come over to mission a for a final go.

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