we could say there was no panic, no running away, people ran in to the smoke to help to save people and to help those that are injured, show the best of americans and that in times like these we come together, those are the early heroes of today and mike barnicle, thank you for staying with me tonight. a live edition of "hardball" starts right now. good evening. i'm chris matthews with the latest on the breaking news out of boston. as you know doubt have heard, two bombs exploded, there they are, near the finish line of the boston marathon. killed two people and injured more than 100. one of the people killed was an

8-year-old child, law enforcement officials told nbc. the white house is calling this an act of terror and there's been no claim of responsibility yet for the attacks. dramatic witness video captured the horror starting with the first bomb. the crowd panics and begins to run and then you can hear a second explosion in the background. let's watch. the last hour, president obama spoke about the attack. let's listen to the president. >> we still do not know who did this or why.

people shouldn't jump to conclusions before we have all of the facts but make no mistake, we will find out who did this. we will find out why they did this. any responsible individuals, any responsible groups will feel the full weight of justice. >> steve silva is the boston globe sports reporter who shot that finish line video. he's now there by phone. did you have a regular camera or was that a cell phone? >> steve? jackie, thank you for joining us. >> thank you, chris. this is unlike anything i've ever seen before. we were literally right across the street from where the second explosion happened.

it was right outside of the forum restaurant, right between the atlantic restaurant and starbucks. we were coming out of the parking garage there. i had been covering a story about this couple that was running the marathon and they were about to get married on boston common after running at 5:30 so we were moving our car and as we were coming out, i have the receipt that we paid for. it was 2:49 and seconds later we heard the explosion. we knew immediately something terrible happened. my toting to photographer jumpe the car. i thought i was going to get trampled, extreme amount of force and terror. i made my way through those people and got to the scene of where this all happened and the people were strewn about, to be quite honest. there were limits missing,

mostly lower limbs missing and i saw a police officer carrying a small boy who had blood all over his face. it was an horrific scene and everybody was running around frantically and the boston marathon was still going on. this was a few feet away from the finish line and runners still coming up were looking to their left with horror trying to make out what had just happened. many of them likely had heard -- some people told me they had headphones on so they didn't hear the explosion while others had. they were all shocked. other people were stopped before they could get to that point. we talked to people who got stopped at marker 25 and had to get explained to them what happened but they had family members waiting at the finish line for them. as you can imagine, they were absolutely panicked it. i have to make a shout out to the boston pd and volunteers. they were giving people their phones so they could call family members and trying to let people know they were safe because, as

you can imagine, panic set in. >> over 100 wounded today. how many were able to get out of there? did they have enough ambulances for everybody? >> reporter: they had a lot of ambulances there right away. we saw people getting carted away in the wheelchairs that they had out for people that will already there in case people came in too dehydrated and unable to walk. you still could not -- i was there too quickly before anything was really sanitized. what i saw was, as i said, limbs lost, people laying about and people trying to help them but it was all so quick and then police said, go away, go away, go away. we were also concerned about whether there would be another loud explosion somewhere else. i also wasn't sure about the structure of the parking garage. we got in our car to move that for anybody in the parking garage because we weren't sure what else would have happened. >> it strikes me when i watch --

take a look here of the casualty list. each one of the major hospitals. bringham williams, boston medical, beth israel has nine. it shows that this horror has filled the hospitals across the city. >> reporter: yeah. there's a lot of hospitals here. we have some of the best in the country. those injured are in the best of hands. the things i saw were very horrific and they were not clean cuts. to try not to be too graphic, i saw people whose legs were blown off and a foot blown off and body parts strewn along the route. it was a scene of chaos and people were trying their best to get people comfortable and transported as quickly as they could. i was only on the scene for a while because i had to move that car because i was afraid of blocking people in a place we weren't sure if it was safe or not. that's what i experienced and i

can tell you in my -- i haven't been reporting for many years, about four or five, and i can tell you it's the worst thing i have ever seen in my young life and i hope i never see anything that tragic again. >> jackie bruno, thank you for joining us on "hardball." steve shot that video and he's joining us by phone. steve, tell me about this. what were you doing at the time when you put your camera on that site and just happened to catch both explosions and sequence there. >> i do a finish line scenes for the marathon. i'm out there for about five hours because you have the professionals and charity runners coming in. there were over 9,000 runner ins still out there at 2:50 p.m. i was dead center on the finish line waiting for someone to do a cartwheel across the finish line and off to the right side, there was a large thud, a loud thud

and it went off -- i thought, was this some kind of some one coming across that is important, like a firework? and than we all ran towards it and it was different. we were absorbing the situation and the second bomb went off half a block up. one was on the corner of boylston and they all go up the street alphabetically so the next one is fairfield. we understand that they were both in trash cans. it was just a hour rihorrific scenes. i saw a man whose leg was blown off. he wasn't the only one. there were body parts everywhere. >> we know from the kennedy assassination years ago, trying to find out whether the blast comes from, in this case, a blast. could you tell in your mind's eye, could you tell that the blasts came from streets,

perhaps from trash cans, or inside buildings? >> no. they were in the sidewalk. you can tell in the video, it was clearly outside. it's partitioned off with a gate. it was inside the gate. the crowds are probably 10 to 15 people thick at that point. there are open public trash cans and the understanding is the devices were deposited in the trash cans during the race and timed them to go off simultaneously. >> would that be consistent -- i guess that explains the injury, they were all at knee-high and looked what was shrapnel but could have been coming from the trash cans. >> that's right. they are lined with metal bars going around and then a liner that goes inside. probably blew that right apart. it appears to be leg injuries and i can certainly agree with that. >> did you get a still out of

this, is this going to be in the globe? will they be able to isolate that moment of explosion? >> we had a couple of photographers on the scene. immediately on the scene as well and i think david abel. we had a couple folks out there. i was just shooting video so our video is at boston.com but i'm sure we'll have dramatic photos in tomorrow's paper for sure. >> we appreciate you giving us this photo. you took a great picture there. it gives us a tremendous sense of what happened. let's go to michael leiter. i'm well beyond my ability in talking about this but tell me where i'm right or wrong. he said it was clearly outside but he think it is came from the trash cans. >> it's possible. it's really hard to tell, chris. we've seen over and over today, this started about 2:50. i would say about half of what

we hear is right and half of what we hear later on is wrong. we heard that there was a bomb at the jfk library. >> exactly. >> we have to take this slowly and the president was right about that. it's going to be a methodical investigation. could they have been in the trash can? it's certainly a possibility. were they timed to go off later and potentially hurt first responders, we're not sure yet. >> what does it tell you that the people lost legs and limbs, going horizontally, the blast. >> it suggests that the blast was close to those people and across the ground rather than something higher up. that's self-explanatory. shrapnel may have been included. what this shows, at least, is these are not small incendiary

devices. this was intended to kill and maim. this is in the midst of a huge public event. >> the trade center was filled with thousands of people and buildings, iconic buildings. >> right. >> here it wasn't an iconic building that was the target. it wasn't a big insurance building or anything like that. it was a bunch of people. what does that tell you? just aiming at regular sort of street traffic -- i don't know if i've heard something like this before. i guess we get into the movie theaters and schools, it's indiscrete. but people that happen to be standing there, they are not in uniform, they don't represent a government agency, they are not bureaucrats. they are just people who happen to be in a spot cheering on runners. >> you know what --

>> killing that, like the regular people. >> as you know, being from boston -- i lived in boston for a number of years. it's patriots' day. it's something that everybody in the northeast -- >> actually, i'm from philly. so i know the boston area and i do know how much pride that city has and the sports teams. we all know about the sox and we know that anything in boston, it's the -- what do they call it? the hub of the universe and they believe it. >> we haven't seen this sort of attack be successful in the united states but we've seen things very similar to this attempted. on the international terrorism front, 2009, 2010, a plot against new york city subways, a bomb fizzled. that's the power of terrorism. you can't harden everything. you can go after large

assemblies of people but to defend against all of this all the time is impossible. i think what we've seen so far in boston is real success in the response. i hope that we're going to see equal confusion. >> let's talk about that. i know you don't want to speculate. le you're a one step at a time kind of guy and i'm a little different. if it's american, it could be anti-taxation, anti-government. we don't know yet. this doesn't explain itself. in other words, if you're a terrorist group or person, this does not explain itself unless you just hate people. you have to come out and put a banner out, this is why i did this. look out. and if it's a foreign group, they are going to have to explain themselves, too, otherwise it doesn't many anything. don't you have to put an advertisement on -- >> people are going to claim responsibility. >> fake people are going to claim and people who did do it may or may not claim. >> why wouldn't they claim?

why would they do it and not claim? >> if you look at what happened with timothy mcvey, he never claimed anything. there were indications and ultimately that's how we caught him, with great forensic information. but he never raised his hand up and said i did this. i think chances are somebody is going to claim responsibility for this, someone who really did it. the forensic investigation, going through the intelligence from overseas potentially and domestically, we're going to find it. >> what does april 15th mean to you? the anniversary of the action by the atf and fbi, what does the april 15th tell you? anything? >> it's one of 20 things that might mean something in this investigation. it's something. are people going to think about tax? yes. >> taxasshustes? >> i'm looking at this

conceptually rather than evidentiary. thank you, michael leiter. bill bratton is the great commissioner. thank you for coming back tonight. i don't know if you've accumulated any more evidence except for as the horror that an 8-year-old was killed and also the two people dead, we have new numbers on the wounded. over 100. 107, according to "the globe." they are at every one of the hospitals at the boston area. their patients are the people who came from that scene right now. >> like michael, i'm an evidence guy and after 40 years of covering these types of events, the first story is never the last story. you will appreciate this story has changed quite a bit over the last several hours. what we clearly know is that

there were two separate devices, a horrific number of devices and injuries. two deaths being reported. there will be a phenomenal investigative effort made to quickly identify who did this. as michael indicated, as of now, nobody is claiming credit. and they will eventually do that, though. they will come out of the woodwork and claim credit for it. >> what do you make of this trash can thing? you're far from the evidence for that, the idea that the trajectory of the blast went knee-high, apparently most of the injuries were to the lower forms of the body. a kid was a target, or one of the victims of that. and then this all happened out in the street here. people putting bombs apparently in these trash cans. >> well, one of the stories is that it wasn't a trash can. the idea of a type of trash can,

it may have, in fact, pushed the explosion up rather than out. it's one of the things they are going to have to determine where were the two devices? were they in something such as a trash can or were they just on the ground? they just don't know at this stage of the game. it's going to take a while to determine that and they will let the general public know what they know. >> what kind of a drag net? earlier with the reverend rented al sharpton, when you look for somebody -- people obviously it seems to me a person could drive or whatever. they could take the bus. the airports, what do you think about the airports? can you begin to check on that and catch somebody before they leave town? >> they would be looking at the airports because that's the one area that they have records of who is coming and going. you don't necessarily have that on buses or trains and certainly not in automobiles. they will be looking to retrieve

at those locations where automobiles leave the city. they will be seeking to gather information from any source possible this is an extraordinarily heavy busy time. the investigation will be comprehensive. the square while in that area, they are looking at every camera that is facing on the street and somebody at the scene picked up early on, farther away. i'm reminded of the terrorist bombing in london, the subway bombing and how they were able to track entering the system from miles away and repeated instances they will be able to

replicate that as part of this investigation. >> can you draw a radius and keep growing it as to how far a person can be away at a certain point in time? if they detonated this at 2:50 this afternoon, can you tell how far away they are right now? >> i would not be able to. we don't know how it was detonated. was it with a timer, remote control through a cell phone? i don't think anybody at this point in time understands how it was detonated. >> well, thank you very much. >> thank you. let me go to chuck todd, our chief white house correspondent. can you give us a sense as to how this is going to be a national story, a national investigation? >> i can tell you a few things. number one is, when you heard the president's statement -- and many people have made note of the fact and the white house acknowledges that the president used the word "terrorism" and i

can tell you from talking to sources, they discussed whether he should use that word or not and they made the decision not to. it's not that they don't believe and are not treating this as an act of terror but they are being very careful, the president himself seemed to emphasize this, they still don't know who do this and nor do they know the motivation. is it a group, international, and i can tell you, you can hear it in the president's voice. there's clearly some frustration about how little they seem to know and it's my understanding that michael leiter is listening in on this y would there be such concern internally about being careful about whether you call something terrorism and why they may have made the decision not to? >> michael? >> i think the reason is, as we saw in libya, anything that the president says is going to be parsed over and over and over again for the next who knows how

long and in that respect we know this wasn't an accidental explosion. at that point you're left with a criminal act or a terrorism and the only differentiator is whether or not it was politically motivated. we don't know it was politically motivated or not but i think it is more than a fair guess to say that if you are planting bombs around lots of people at the end of the boston marathon, this is not just a criminal act. this is someone who wants to kill people and i think that if there were not the likelihood that people would attack the president from both parties, all sides, if he gets an initial statement wrong, they would be saying terrorism now. >> chuck, i guess we all made the assumption that the government, the fbi will be able to catch the bad guys, or bad guy.

remember back -- i remember, i was a capitol policeman back in 1971 and i've got to tell you, they never found out who blew up the inside of the capitol. nobody knew how bad that damage was. i knew it and other officers knew. a huge bomb went off somewhere, right going down into the foundations of the buildings doing incredible damage. i remember going down there to look at it. they never made a conviction. so we don't always catch the bad guys. therefore, can't we establish we can't always establish their motives? >> let's remember the atlanta olympic bombing and how long it took. and some people don't take credit. i heard commissioner b rchlrabry that they expect someone to take credit. i had another security official say that one reason they know so

little. it's either one of two things. it's a brand-new group that they haven't been tracking or the person is just a completely unknown individual acting as a lone wolf. would that be the conclusions you'd be coming to at this point? >> i probably wouldn't go that far this soon. the reason is that often after one of these events, when you go back in the intelligence stream, you will see something which starts to give an yags and indication and it will turn out that someone who you thought was unknown was connected to a group that you should have been watched. this happened to some extent with the bombings in london in 2005 where they thought it was someone that they had been watching for some time and then dropped surveillance. i think it's a good guess to say that it's an individual or a new group. i think it's too early to say, chuck. >> again, you can start the circle. because of the type explosive is

not state-of-the-art, just like you can't figure out how far the bomber had gotten away from the scene at the time it happened, you have a question of how wide of a loop that covers. it can cover anybody who is experienced with studying the internet. >> that's right. precautions at the airport is because you think somebody involved might be trying to fly away. part of it is because you don't know what is going on so it makes sense that if there is a follow-on attack. you don't know anything specific so you go as wide as you can to start and the investigation slowly narrows the suspect and will also enable you to limit the extent of your additional protective measures that you have to take. >> chuck, can you tell me something about the president after studying him for months and years now, does he give advice? does he suggest areas of emphasis over -- efforts to -- does he say what he thinks or

does he just say how it's going? >> no. look, this is the first one of these incidents that he's doing without john brennan by his side. he was the chief counterterrorism official. he's at cia. he's got a new person at his side on that front. what i'm sort of reading into this and i'm only reading into it is that he's used to getting information a lot faster than they are getting on this one. >> yeah. the but of course this frustration seems to be law enforcement-wide. michael, are you surprised, we are now near five hours after the incident. are we just too used to you guys being so good that you usually have the leads after three or four hours are on the way and we know so little at this point in time? >> i think that is right, chuck. especially when we disrupt an attack. the reason we knew so much as

soon as it broke is because we had been following him for days. but when it's a surprise, it really does take time for this to be surfaced. and just a note on the president having served with president bush and president obama, i think the early days of the administration president obama gave people a little bit of room but i saw the president become i am immeshed in these issues and he will be poking fingers, demanding answers. he's not going to get involved in the operations and tell bob muller what to do. >> he'll be saying, what about, what about? >> let me ask you before chuck leaves, what about the other bombs? perhaps two others, one at a hotel, one somewhere else, we're hearing, that didn't explode, that were set to explode, obviously. it could have been worse. what does that tell you, four different bomb sites? >> i'm go to be the evidence guy on this.

we know there were packages or bags that the boston police department treated as potential explosive devices. we don't actually know if they were bombs or not. we know that there were bags that people couldn't identify and treat it as devices. >> did it blow them up? >> they probably disabled them, either with a water cannon and even there the numbers have shifted on these other packages. i don't think we know how many devices there were other than two. >> pete williams is with us with more on the investigation. it's your beat now. the fbi. >> let me pick up on that. we still don't know how many explosive devices there were. we know that two went off. there could have been others because packages found on the street were deemed suspicious. they were destroyed but we haven't heard any confirmation on whether at least five other packages actually were explosive devices.

some officials say there is reason to think at least a few of them were but we still don't have confirmation on that. that's number one. number two, there is no suspect in custody. however, there are some people that the investigators are very interested in talking to. one of them is a young person who had a student visa who has burns and was seen running from the area. now, of course many people were running from the area and some were injured. so what particular reason there is to be interested in this person, we're not sure of. but nonetheless, that person is being aggressively questioned now. officials say two bombs that went off included shrapnel to multiply the injuries that. would include bbs and ball bearings. that's not an innovation but a technique used in other attempted bombings here in the u.s. by domestic terrorists. investigators are looking at surveillance video to see if

they can see anyone actually placing packages at the points where these bombs went off. there is some indication that they are being lucky with the surveillance video but we don't have a final conclusion on that. a couple of officials describe these devices as crude and although they caused two deaths and over 100 injuries it could have been much worse. the devices have less explosive power than might have been contained in packages of this size. so the second thing -- the third thing i should say, chris, we're told by several officials that there is no reason to think that there is any kind of threat elsewhere, that this is part of anything else larger. nothing to indicate that. the boston police have said there was no warning ahead of this. nonetheless, simply as a precaution, security was stepped

up around the white house and in other cities in hotels and places where crowds gather, new york, for example, some airports are stepping up security but a homeland security official says that no directives have been set out suggesting a higher alert. these actions being taken are being taken by local authorities simply based on what you and i can see. you've been making comparisons to other attacks. this is reminiscent of the atlanta bombing in 1996. that was done by a white supremacist. that one, two people were killed and more than 100 injured and that was placed where a big crowd gathered and the other thing that immediately came to my mind was three years ago when a white supremacist planted a backpack bomb, including shrapnel coated with rat poison along a parade route planned for spokane but fortunately that was discovered before the event, a few hours before the event and

it was safely removed. >> let me ask you about the suspect that ran away. how do they know he was a student here on a visa? how did they i.d. the guy? >> i'd be careful about the word suspect. they are not calling him suspect at this point but this person, yes, they know he has a student visa because when he showed up at the hospital with burns, he presented his i.d. and had a student visa. they didn't know that beforehand. there is interest in talking to that young person. >> so they have him? he's available to them? >> yes, in the hospital being questioned. >> so that could mean hardly anything. in these kinds of cases, do they -- how do they operate? we've been talking about the conceptual idea of profiling. does this person follow the pattern of a domestic terrorist or foreign terrorist? is there anything in the evidence gathering or do they have to decide through triage of where to put their effort? do they make assumptions, such as april 15th, a bomb not that

sophisticated, it could have been somebody with a political angle that wanted to do damage but not part of anything big and strategic? >> well, they will work it on a number of levels. on the ground, at the scene they will be trying to pick up every tiny evidence that they can to try to figure out how they were made, what the explosive composition was and how they were to be detonated. that itself will suggest a certain signature because there are certain kinds of construction of devices favored by, say, domestic terrorist versus foreign terrorists. that's the first thing they will do. second thing they will look for is evidence from witnesses. that kind of thing. sthird to go back and look at the intelligence tape that led up to this event. was there, for want of a better term that is often used these days, was there chatter that indicated that something like

this was planned? so i think it's fair to say there won't be any assumptions, that in fact that might give investigators a tunnel vision. they will be very ag ncnostic. >> how successful have we been in the age of cell phones -- everybody has a phone of some kind, a camera of some kind. this must be one of the whole new ways of police work where you immediately try to round up everybody that has a phone on and taking pictures because they are also picking up audio. >> absolutely. a lot of those things will be looking towards the runners and the bomb is coming, for most of them, from behind. so you never know but, yes, that's one thing that is done these days. in addition to trying to find eyewitnesses, they will look at any kind of video that was recorded in the area and try

to -- this is a painstaking process so you get hundreds of different angles in addition to the conventional video cameras in businesses and stores. >> pete, you're great. pete williams, justice correspondent for nbc news. brian levin is with the study of hate and extremist in san bernardino. thank you for coming in. there you have it. now we have you. what is your sense of smell? do you have one about this? do you have a pattern in your head? what do you see of this whole horror? >> the chatter analysts that come out and say they know who it is are the ones usually

wrong. so let me tell you what the schematic that we use when we train folks, you have psych c j psychologically dangerous, someone with cognitive impairment. third, personal benefit or revenge. here are a couple interesting things i'd like to put together. first of all, there are cameras all over the place. so they will piece together stuff as it comes in. the other thing i want to say is, there's a lot of stuff that the local and federal law enforcement know that they are not going to put out because it's going to hamper the investigation. they are not going to do it. don't think that they don't know what is going on or that they don't have a bigger picture than they have. a couple of things. we know it's patriots' day up in bass ton. it boston. it's a holiday.

it could be an anti-government person. we talked about eric robert rudolph and that kind of thing. remember, large symbolic events attract a variety of unstable people. let me put another thing in the mix. just within the last week or so there has been a jihadist handbook that has been released that shows a variety of things about how lone wolfs can cause havoc and in there they put a pipe bomb. but for every individual, an unstable sociopath, i think someone can make an argument. right now the only thing we know is that we have to cast a wide net, not a narrow one, and we don't want to indite whole communities. an argument can be made for any of these types of people. >> how about april 15th, brian? does that tell you anything?

>> joe stack, joe stack crashed a plane into the irs building as well. we have anti-government, anti-tax people. we have the recent release of a handbook designed by al qaeda to train loners in small cells. they have a pipe bomb similar to one used here if in fact it was one. let me say this. i would point to smaller rather than bigger. and what i mean is, as deadly as this was, this was not a sophisticated type of device that would be beyond someone who was committed who could have access to handbooks on the internet available to a wide variety of people who could have motives ranging from domestic anti-government, anti-tax all the way to international and, of course, never under estimate the wide card, someone with a

symbolic event, a date that is an anniversary, can attract all kinds of people and not necessarily the person you might not think at first would do it. >> if this person was out to kill a lot of people, it seems they would have detonated this bomb -- two bombs at a time when there was a large crowd of finishers crossing the finish line. as we've seen in this horrible picture, there's only one guy finishi finishing there that fell. does that tell you that he was finishing this by a time bomb? because he's not getting a lot of people at this point. >> it could. but here's the point. even bombs that have timers. and here's the thing. this kind of information is all over the place. and for every suspect movement that you could say would be involved with this, i could show

you someone who can find a type of device that would have a timer. timers sometimes do not work the way you want them to work. i think whoever did this was doing it to get it done and they knew that it would make a big splash. but, again, i think its somebody smaller rather than bigger. al qaeda does not like these kinds of small kind of attacks. however, there's been a split -- within al qaeda, for instance, they are trying encourage lcone wolfs. there is a variety of individuals who were attached to movements for their own reasons and it's just too soon to tell. i think it's interesting the date has significance to people in the anti-government and by the same token encouraging

loners to cause mayhem here in the united states just came out as well. so that's the information we have. it's all speculation beyond that. >> thank you very much, brian levin, for coming on with that. brian has a good sense of the different groups and we don't know how it all connects here to reality. it's just these are the various forces of the world. michael? >> yeah. chris, this is still -- this is a step by step process now. i agree with brian's main thrust which is it's too early to say. starting to put protective measures in place because you don't really know what this was caused by or who caused it. that's the stage we're in now. we are just, just starting to enter the phase of who, where, why, is there an additional threat? you can draw lots of implications. it's easy to connect the dots if you know what the conclusion is. >> it seems to me watching this

it doesn't always follow the evidentiary tale. someone trying to run a red light 20 minutes away, they are sweaty and nervous. >> after the fact, it's clear why it happened. we're in the earliest hours and that's when you have to be careful not to connect the dots that shouldn't be connected. >> or people talk and all of a sudden this guy is bragging in a week or two and he's caught that way. that's how human frailty works. all right. thanks so much for coming on tonig tonight. katy tur. sorry. what's new? we've got over 100 injured people. we've got people at every hospital up there. bringham, williams, massachusetts hospital, tuft israel. it seems that the whole city has become a hospital for this horror at the boston marathon.

>> reporter: certainly the whole city is on alert. 100 people injured at least. you have two people dead. we've learned in the last hour that one of those dead people is an 8-year-old boy. one law enforcement official or source has told us that which was just a huge tragedy. you have people walking around these streets here in a state of shock and displbelief and looki for some answers. there's so few answers so far. the homeland security chairman is officially calling this terrorism t terrorism. the white house may not be causing it terrorism but he is. he says it was not an accident. it was intended to harm and scare. it's done just that. dozens injured and two people dead. it was timed at the height of the race around the four-hour mark when most of the racers would be finishing that race. we're at the back bay of boston. you know it's a very busy area a. very popular area, especially after the marathon. everybody is celebrating around

here. there are number of bars that should be packed right now but they are completely empty. everything is shut down because people are trying to figure out what happened. right behind me two blocks away is the finish line. that area is completely frozen as they continue their investigation. there's about a 15-block radius where they are stopping any cars from entering this area. the commissioner -- the police commissioner has asked everybody to go home, to stay inside, to stay safe, partially because they are not sure if there are any more threats. everything dropped along the race route is being considered a suspicious package. as you can imagine, it's a marathon. people are dropping things left and right and when everything started to happen, people were dropping more stuff as they were trying to get away from the scene. initially people thought it could have been an accident but 15 seconds later once that other explosion happened, people started to realize this probably was not an accident. it probably was intentional and that's when you started seeing

panic. there were people with shrapnel wounds. there was shrapnel involved with the explosions. a lot of lower limb injuries. people have very serious bleeding. one person reported seeing somebody get a tourniquet in the middle of the street which you would never see happen. people are walking around with a gl glazed look in their eyes. from the passerbies and officials, the navy is assisting which is not something you normally hear. the navy is assisting the federal, straight, and local municipalities. they are pouring over surveillance video and try to figure out as much as they can about the moments leading up to he a the moments after those two

explosions. >> is there anything new on the john f. kennedy library? whatever happened in terms of an incendiary device or do we know? >> reporter: as of now, they are saying -- officials are saying this it was not an incendiary device, that it was just a fire. the timing is very suspicious but we're not getting very many answers about that fire. there was a third undetonated device that they did find. no word on what exactly caused that fire or whether or not it was intentional. they are being -- not many answers right now. >> katy tur, thank you. we'll be back after this. how did i know? well, i didn't really. see, i figured low testosterone would decrease my sex drive... but when i started losing energy and became moody...

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♪ we're back with the latest from the bombing at the finish line of the boston marathon. you know, the music temps me it's moving into history. we had the initial smock of learning what happened, now days perhaps finding out exactly what was the culprit behind it. two people killed, one was an

8-year-old boy. and more than 100 are in various boston hospitals right now. vernon will never forget this day, he was running as a civilian in the marathon. we're going finish up our hour, and let you do a big part of it. narrate as a good journalist your personal experience today. >> i've run the boston marathon ten or 11 times, i have it written down. i can't remember. i love this race. this is an iconic race. everything about it is special. it's been run for 117 years, steeped in tradition, people have to qualify to get in, so really serious runners train and compete for a place in this race all year. and, you know, i even stopped this morning as i was walking to the bus to go to the start line and stopped on the finish line and took in the scene. to think bombs were going off a few hours later is heartbreaking

and i cut the marathon will ever be the same. >> when you look back at the pictures, do you feel what you were through? >> i'm sorry? >> the pictures we're watching over and again, was that the experience? >> chilling to watch. because to see those people, you know, approaching the finish line. it's an incredibly joyous moment, you've been out there for three or four hours, 26.2 miles, almost at the finish line, to see them knocked off their feet or stride for a runner is really chill. it was me out there 30 minutes before. and it's such a great day here on patriot's day. the stay is closed, the city comes out for the marathon like you wouldn't believe. so whoever did this hit a special target and knew what they were attacking. >> why do you want to compete so hard to get into the marathon? why kill yourself to be able to

run 26.2 miles? >> you know, if you enjoy marathon run, you got to run boston. it's sort of like if baseball fans were allowed to play in the world series, yeah, we're not like the top marathoners who win, but to run in the same race with them ask just really special. and then there's the whole allure of the course, heartbreak hill, the up and down rolling aspect of the course, get to mile 18 and hit with three back to back to back hills called heartbreak hill. it's really the most iconic, special course in american running. >> and now it's going to be known for this. >> yeah. yeah. i can't imagine what it'll be like next year. it fills up incredibly fast now. a place in the boston marathon is so coveted. it fills up so fast, and i wonder whether it will. : >> it'll fill up faster.

>> you're probably right. but people are going -- i'm sure security will be much more intense. >> it's interesting the feelings that come over people as they reach the finish line. that will be different. congratulations on being a good witness to a horrible event. i know you'll write about this, and i'd like to read what you write. thank you very much. >> thanks for having me. >> he was in the race, not on gut duty. michael is back with us, i'd like you to finish out. i want to say something about boston, i worked up there for tip o'neill. that city, region back in the 50s and 60s was a dying area, lost textiles to the south because of labor, shoe industry, lost the industries, and they were dying and came back. it's a very positive part of the country. the spirit of the sox fan sun matchable. and the spirit that have community, the hub of the united nations they call it, england is a region, centered around

boston. it's so much a comeback region for the last 50 or 60 years, i don't think it's going to hurt it. >> this is a terrible tragedy. this is a time to think about the victims, figure out who did it and catch them. but i'm with you, i lived and worked in boston for four years, i was just up there last week. this city like new york did, like pennsylvania did, like washington, d.c. did, will recover and do great, and my prediction the boston marathon will be bigger, stronger and more emotional than ever. i happen to have run the marine corp. marathon in 2001 just a couple months after 9/11, and this city and this country, regardless of who did this, comes back from these things very, very strong, and boston will too. >> i think it's good for america that we have this spirit of comeback. but we to want find out who did this. i have no idea. i've seen the building down in oklahoma city tied to, yes, it's

extremism, i hate to say right wing, it's nothing to do with voting for mitt romney, it's extremism, won't swrois its name, only way of communicating is this. this is how it talks, and maybe an individual. i thought it was great the way you pointed out that it could be a psychological situation, ideological, revenge, i could see mixes of the motives. and i think this country can get through it. and the country, 300 million people, i am astounded by how many sane and good people who vote when they have a political opinion and don't to want get involved in this. it isn't our usual coverage. we've dropped a night of discuss discussion about gun control ask safety and the question of what's going to happen in the senate. we have great news, far more important, i believe in the terms of our future about a society safe with our use of guns, that vote's coming up,

probably tomorrow, a vote on whether we have the bill accepted. we've got up to 60 senators willing to witt stand a filibuster. it could fall short and then ask ourselves the question, 58 united states senators who want to see gun safety passed, better background checks, including sales at gun shows, that one symbolic response at newtown, if it's only 58, i think we'll have to try again. it may take another disaster for us to try again. we will. the issue of immigration, who is going to decide whether them people become americans or not? under what circumstance do you, legal if you came here illegally. that is within reach. we have 70 senators behind it. there's a good chance that we will have workable politics on the issue of guns and immigration. this is going in a good

direction. so even with today's tragedy, there's great reason for optimism, great reason to believe that our republic, which has its roots in boston and philadelphia, is going to prevail and succeed. so it's been an interesting and terrible night, but i do believe as we proceed as a country, this will not be the norm, the norm will be how we respond. michael, your last words about how the investigation goes down? >> slowly, methodically, and find the people who did it. >> and? >> and americans have to understand that the threat of terrorism domestically and internationally is with us. doesn't have to change the way we live. we're going to experience some hits like this, but, again, next year, we're going to have the marathon. we've got to grieve with the families who lost people today, and find the people responsible. >> what we saw today with 9/11, not quite as dramatic, fire

fighters racing up the stairs, but great reaction by the first responders today. they were in those -- they were in those ambulances and they were in the hospital fast. they were divided up among the various hospitals, good triage. now, if you're head of the fbi, up late tonight and early tomorrow morning, what is the major goal of the fbi? evidence on the ground? collecting cell phones? ports of entry? >> all of the above. bob will make sure all the evidence coordinated with the boston police department, they're going to come through, talking to agents across the country, check with sources, who knows what. going through social media, seeing if there's anything there. working with the cia. everyone is going to have long nights across the country figuring this out. >> michael, it's been great working with you