the words spoken were as sunny as the weather. you couldn't tell the parties apart. you couldn't tell that jimmy carter had won, that the republicans won carter and that the second bush won by saying he wouldn't embarrass us the way his democratic predecessor bill clinton had. now, getting through all of those ramble bushes you might say was a feat in itself and that's what the five presidents did today, get through the day without harming themselves by finding things to agree about, finding ways to say good, honest things about each other and leave all the rest for the next day when hardball. and that's "hardball" for now. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. thanks, chris, and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, omission accomplished in texas. the dedication of the bush library was news for what wasn't said as much as it was for what

was said. to be sure the event provided a unique picture, all five living presidents and their wives on the same stage, political differences were put aside. the toughest job in the world. >> and what i know is true about president bush and i hope my successor will say about me is that we love this country and we do our best. >> we are here to celebrate a country we all love, a service we all rendered. >> an honor of a lifetime to lead a country as brave and as noble as the united states. whatever challenges come before us, i will always believe our nation's best days lay ahead. god bless. >> we saw president clinton

tweeting this moment and we saw wife of one president and mother of another. there was a lot of talk today about the positive he did in the world. for example, his commitment to fighting aids in africa. the money our government provided literally saved millions of lives but there wasn't much mention of the disastrous bush decision to launch a war of choice in iraq, to torch prisoners, to conduct secret wire tapping, nor was there talk about the financial crisis, the mortgage meltdown or hurricane katrina. will this country turn a blind eye to one of our great cities? that's the legacy and we can't ignore it. even or especially on a day like today. joining me now are join walsh and e.j. dionne. thank you both for being here

tonight. >> thanks, rev. >> e.j., has the gop ever really had an honest reckoning of the bush years? i mean, what he did to this country and to their party? >> i think the short answer is no. ironically, the -- to the extent that the republicans are being critical of bush, they have been critical of him for being a big spender. they don't tend to note that a lot of that money was spent in iraq. but i'm not all that concerned that americans are going to forget that legacy. yes, president bush's numbers have improved since he left office, as we saw in "the washington post" poll, abc poll this week. his approval rating went from 33 when he left office to 47 now. but a majority of americans still remember the economic downturn, 53% still disapprove of his handling of the economy. 57% still disapprove of his decision to go to war in iraq. so i'm not sure. the republicans have fully come

to terms with bush but i think the country has on a whole and hasn't forgotten those two core things. >> now, joan, when you look at the fact, e.j. said something about irony. well, let me give you an irony. "the washington post" headline today says u.s. intelligence believes syria's assad used chemical weapons on a small scale. isn't it ironic that we learn about real wmds in the days when the bush library is dedicated? i mean, and this is maybe we're not sure about assad. >> we're not sure. >> but we haven't declared war in that yet either. let's just say we're hearing about what is possible, real wmds on a day that we have the president that went after wmds that were not there. >> right. it's as though history wants to remind us even though on this day we are not supposed to be talking about that, reverend al, there is a sense of irony,

although we don't know what is going on in syria. we do know that president bush, one of his low moments was joking about looking for wmds under the couch and some video for -- >> he did a joke at one of the last correspondence -- >> yeah, one of those fancy dinners. and it's not funny at all. and i think americans -- to some extent, we like to see this. i had that sensation of myself, seeing the father and the son, eldest president bush is not in great health. there's something moving about that, especially at a time when we have so little bipartisanship. there's something very nice about seeing that. he gets his day but i agree with e.j., he got his day and we will move back and he will recover his place as one of the worst presidents in history. >> and i agree with that, e.j. i agree when you look at the fact that much of the world could not have five heads of

states standing there that had a nonviolent succession of power. i mean t. shows a greatness of this country, despite all of the flaws and despite all we've gone through. and i think that's good. i was one that, you know, opposed bush. i marched on the war early in iraq, i went with cindy sheehan and i thought what he did with aids in africa was great. i thought some of the things he talked about in education was good. so it's not personal. but the country's financial problems started because of his policies. the iraq war took trillions of dollars out. if we're going to stop and talk about the bush years, e.j., we're going to have to talk about the bush years, all of what happened. >> i agree that there's something nice about this. i also think that there's a trade union among presidents and former presidents and the

cardinal rule is that you always say nice things about each other in pub electric and president oba obama lived up to that. i thought it was interesting what president obama chose to pace president bush for. he praised him for the bull horn moment at 9/11 and praised him on africa, which he deserves praise and went on at some length about bush's effort to get immigration reform. what was interesting about that was it was a contrast between george bush and the contemporary tea party on all of those issues bush was in some sense much more progressive than the current republican party. >> that was interesting. that was interesting because rather than the party going back more towards the center they went further right. and the irony, e.j., and joan, as e.j. talks about what

president obama said, ironically who came and we're using the word ironically a lot here, ironically, again, the one that came a little closer to the truth was the joke that president clinton said about presidential libraries and what they are all about. look at this. >> i told president obama that this was the latest, grandest example of the eternal struggle of former presidents to rewrite history. >> that's a little more candid. >> that was quite an opening that said, wow, he's going to acknowledge what we're doing here. i think there's one other thing that i shockingly want to give president bush credit for. in addition to immigration reform and showing how far to the right his party has moved, he also was pretty careful in

the days and months and even years after 9/11 not to demonize muslims, to really say this is not about a religion. this is not about a group of people. we will not profile. and we -- you know, going to muslim services. and, you know, that's also -- >> he went out of his way. >> he went out of his way to do that and that's something we're not seeing in the wake of what happened in boston and it's really striking to think about how quickly so many republicans are all about, yeah, let's straight out profile. let's really blame the people. let's not give their students visas. let's not let them come here. and president bush resisted that. so -- >> that was part of your point, e.j. i interrupted you when you were saying some of the things that he has done. the tea party would be outraged by george bush doing that if he was president today. >> right. and i'm glad joan brought up muslims. president bush went out of his way to visit the muslim center

here in d.c. about a month after ne 9/11. that sent a very important signal to the country. but for those of us critical of bush on iraq and the handling of the economy, the one thing we didn't expect was the lesson that the republican party would draw, the way to deal with the problems that bush had was to move further to the right. and that's what we face now. and it's almost as if president obama was saying republicans on immigration reform, this won't be my legacy. this would be george w. bush's legacy so maybe he'll pick up some votes on immigration reform. >> well, and i want to ask this, joan. you know, the former president bush talked about seeing the character of the american people. i want you to listen to this. >> i saw the people in new orleans who made homemade boats to rescue their neighbors from

the floods. i saw service members lay down their lives to keep the country safe and make other nations free. >> this is the one that kind of bothered me a little. he's talking about the people in new orleans that he left stranded. he's talking about the troops he sent to war that didn't have to fight, there were no weapons there. >> right. >> i mean, are you a little surprised as i would that he would even bring them up so directly? >> i wasn't so surprised about the troops because he's proud of his wars. he thinks he did the right thing. katrina is really an eternal bl blemish. for him to even raise it and not apologize, not find some way to say, that's one i could have handled better, was a little jarring. that didn't seem entirely right to me, rev. >> e.j., i think it was a little -- it was like, don't be too hard on him, reverend al, he said new orleans in my head and i kind of snapped.

no one is all good, no one is all bad. there's some glaring things here that many of us in this country are trying to still recover from from the bush years. that's just the honest truth. >> no. i think that's true. i was surprised he brought up new orleans. i think he knows in his heart of hearts that he might have said something apologetic because that was really a turn around moment for his presidency he lost some ground when he supported privatizing social security. the war in iraq was turning bad at that point. but this really was the moment when large numbers of people in the court said, wait a minute, this isn't working. and so i was surprised that he brought it up in that way. >> joan walsh and e.j. dionne, thank you for your time tonight. >> good to be with you, reverend. ahead, a secret tape reveals what a top republican really thinks of rush limbaugh. and it shows how cowardly they are. and we're learning more about the suspected boston

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today we saw former president george bush and his allies unveil a brand new mission to accomplish. with the bush library, they are trying to rewrite history and rescue his legacy. for the country, for the republican party, and for the bush family itself. a key part of that mission seems to be getting yet another bush in the white house. >> if your brother jeb decides to run. >> yeah. >> what advice would you give him? >> my first advice is run. >> sure.

he'd be terrific. he'd be a wonderful president. >> he'd be a marvelous candidate if he choses to do so. he doesn't need my counsel because he knows what it is, which is run. >> run, jeb, run. the whole family seems to be on board, right? wrong. >> mrs. bush, would you like to see your son jeb run? >> he's by far the best qualified man but, no, i really don't. i think it's a great country, there are a lot of great families and it's not just four families or whatever. there are other people out there that are very qualified and we've had enough bushes. >> we've had enough bushes. it's astounding. most candidates don't have to worry about getting support from their mom. but whether barbara bush realized it or not, today she summed up the thoughts of millions of americans, including

republicans. we've had enough bushes. joining me now is lou from "the washington spectator." he also is the co-author of "bushwhacked," and jim hightower. thanks to you both for being here. >> good to be here, rev. >> jim, what do you make of barbara's comments that we've had enough bushes? >> well, she's right. and i think that's the damage that's being done to jeb bush right now by this library extravaganza that took place up in dallas. by the way, that's $250 million can of whitewash, is pretty much what that library represents. and here's jeb bush trying to run for president and he gotten dorsed by their own family member, as you showed there, w. himself said, yeah, run, run,

run. but what w. has done with this extravaganza in dallas is to create a massive flashback for the american people. by the way, i give him credit for that for ducking down a little bit. but then here comes bush again, reminding people that mission accomplished banner that you're talking about, that heck of a job brownie in new orleans and the privatization of social security and again and again and again. oh, my god. we now remember who he was and we're going to have another one of them? i don't think so. i think barbara bush was right. >> the fact is, when you look at it, lou, the republican party the favorability ratings tanked. in 2002, it was 50% and then

plummeted down to 38 and 21% today. in 2001, only 7% had an unfavorable view of the gop. by the time bush led office. >> two wars, a huge tax cut that left the country bankrupt, left us where we are today and exits on a huge financial scandal which was partially in his creation, although you have to give credit for bank reregulation. i think the brand is really tarnished. also, the neags nation has moved to the left and his party that is going to nominate him has moved to the right. if you go to cpac, you won't see

much of george bush's name. it's a cult of reagan. but george bush and karl rove are out of there. >> you know, when he mentions that, jim, i mean, you have to deal with the fact that americans have changed their views from agreeing with bush on very key issues when he was president. bush wanted, for example, to privatize social security, as you said. 62% of americans thought it was a good idea under bush. now only 33% thought it's a good idea. not even just now. 2010 it dropped to 33%. bush opposed same-sex marriage. 55% of americans agreed with him back then. today only 39% oppose it. bush wanted to extend tax cuts for everyone, including the wealthy in 2005, 51% of americans agreed with them but in 2012, only 28% thought tax cuts should be extended.

bush pushed american into a war with iraq. in 2003, 70% of americans supported that. only 40% today say it was a smart choice. so america has gone away from their agreement with george bush. >> well, america lived with bush for eight years and saw what that was like. the old button had a picture of bush's face, like a rock, only dumber. they say the stupidity of those policies and we're still trying to live with those things. and the tax cuts and the pharmaceutical giants and he's continuing that. while this is a library that

they won't reveal the names of the people. the half a billion dollars going into that library. then we the taxpayers have to pay for the operation. so he's lived a life of entitlement. i said in 1998 at the democratic convention, his friday was born on third and thought he hit a triple. bush is very much in line to that. he's a child of privilege and hasn't changed at all. he thinks he's entitled to these things. >> in line with that, lou, a lot of republicans fear that jeb bush's last name could bring him some trouble if he decides to run. if his last name was brown instead of bush, he'd probably be the front-runner for the nomination and the director for the 2002 campaign says the

biggest thing to hold him back is his last name. >> it's a liability, rev. he was actually -- if you remember the bush family chronicle, it was jeb that was groomed to be president and karl rove latched on to w. and made him the president and the rest, of course, is history. the whole family has another -- the family can sometimes be described as a white collar criminal conspiracy. you know, when these -- when george w. was nominated president, they all took off selling oil deals in argentina. that was neil bush, had nothing to do with argentina. george w. was calling the interior minister settling an enron deal and the person with a political future that is jeb, he was -- he was -- and he was in nigeria selling water pumps to president and they are shoe shining a smile as a children of

privilege and took that moment to enrich themselves. i think that comes back to jeb if he runs again. it's different running for governorship of florida. there's more than one liability. >> well, i tell you, thank you, lou, and jim hightower, i don't know whether there was a criminal conspiracy, i certainly know that it was not all that this $500,000 million project is what it's cracked up to be. coming up, what do republicans really think about rush limbaugh? the secret tape ahead. and a very serious story we're following today. new york mayor michael bloomberg says the suspected boston bombers were headed to times square. more on the investigation ahead. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.

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trayvon martin. they are showing a photo of dzhokhar when he was about 14. soft, angelic, nice little boy, harmless. >> they are all democrats. well, of course they are democrats. dzhokhar with a ta weet celebrating obama's re-election. i've got the tweet. of course they are all democrats. you think these guys are voting for romney? >> classy, right? but now a top republican is speaking the truth about rush and he didn't want anyone to know about it. that's next. h protein 0% fat h protein 0% fat that thick creamy texture, i was in trouble. look i'm in a committed relationship with activia and i've been happy and so has my digestive system. now i'm even happier since activia greek showed up because now i get to have my first love and my greek passion together, what i call a healthy marriage.

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known to speak his mind. he's known to tell the truth about what is going on in the conservative parties. but not when it comes to rush limbaugh. not until now. reportedly mr. luntz is on tape speaking to college students. at one point he was asked about political polarization and he replied that he had something to say on this matter but was apprehensive doing openly, doing so could land him in trouble. the tape could not be independently confirmed by nbc news, but we believe it to be luntz's voice. he didn't know it, but one student was recording as he slammed conservative talk radio. >> great ratings and they drive the message and it's really problematic. and this is not on the democratic side. it's only on the republican

side. they've got every other source of news on their side and so that is a way to driving it. >> talk radio is, quote, problematic to the party. again, let's remember, he would only say this mind closed doors. and then he revealed the names. >> marco rubio's getting his [ bleep ] kicked. who's my rubio fan here? we talked about it. he's getting destroyed. trying to find a legitimate, long-term effective solution to immigration that isn't the traditional republican approach and talk radio is killing him. >> so rush limbaugh is the problem. he is hurting the party. but luntz refused to say it out loud.

they refused to denounce the trash talk. why? because they are scared and it says a lot about the character of the gop. joining me now from "mother jones," david corn and joe madison, thanks to both of you for being here tonight. >> thank you, reverend. >> david, why did he feel compelled to record this? >> i should say that the student did so and allowed his name to be used. he's a third-year student at the university of pennsylvania. he attended the talk that frank lu luntz gave and he said, i have a very important thing to say about that but if i did, it could get me into trouble and he referred to as professional

business. and he asked a reporter there for the school newspaper to turn off his recording device and allow this to be off the record. the reporter said yes but the student thought something important might happen and said i don't think he should get away with going off the record on this. indeed, it was frank luntz saying that it was mainly right-wing radio, rush limbaugh, others, who are driving the polarization and destroying people like marco rubio. >> so he said that he recorded it because he felt he did not deserve to go off the record and he gave his name. now, joe madison, let me give you an example of the kinds of things rush limbaugh has said. watch this. >> what does it say about the college coed susan fluke who says essentially that she must

be paid to have sex. what does that make her? it makes her a slut, right? >> there's a political death in the republican party. >> what do you call planned parenthood if that's not a death squad. >> has the cdc, that's an interesting take that the president inspires it. it may well be the case. >> sandra fluke, a young student, was a slut and no republican, joe madison, none of the republican leadership stood up to this man. none denounced him and even now he says, cut the tape off. in fact, after he made this outrageous statement about sandra fluke, let me show you what george will went on national television and said. >> mr. boehner comes up and says, russia's language is

inappropriate, using a salad fork for your entree. that's inappropriate. he said, well, it's absurd and as an entertainer it's depressing because what it indicates is that the republican leaders are afraid of rush limbaugh. they want to bomb iran but afraid of rush becalimbaugh. >> where are they afraid of him, joe? >> well, because you have a nucleus of reporters that have watched his show and they have taken over the heart and soul of the republican party and this is why and when you are afraid to speak truth to power, how can you need the united states congress? if you can't stand up to a stack

show host, then how do you lead in the most powerful governing body on the planet. the reality is, that a consultant, a highly paid consu consultant would say it's absurd. what the tape has done is validate, quite honestly, reverend and david, what we have all known and said for a long time and the reality is the republican party is run by and directed by these guys on radio and it's going to mean that they will never, never expand beyond it. listen to what he said, though,

that it's not the traditional approach that the republican party would take and that's exactly what you have. nontraditional republicans. >> now, david, off the record, how did they get out of this bind, david? >> well, frank luntz -- and i've got to say, frank is one of my favorite guys on the republican side. we had a good conversation with them. i disagree what he said about obama's health care system being a government takeover. i think he's a propagandaist but he got caught here. interestingly enough, today he said nothing about this. maybe they are just going to duck and cover and hope it employees over. >> i disagree.

i think what they are going to do is demonize this young student. that's what is going to happen tomorrow. >> well, we'll see. david corn, joe madison, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. ahead, were the boston bombers planning to hit times square? news on that next. ♪

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today officials confirm that the boston bombing suspects had another target in mind after the attacks. new york. >> last night we were informed by the fbi that the surviving attacker indicated that new york city was on their list of targets. he told the fbi that he and his brother were going to drive to new york and detonate additional explosives in times square. >> they had built additional explosives. they had five pipe bombs and another device similar to the pressure cooker bomb used in the marathon attacks but their plan was stopped. >> they discussed this while driving around in the mercedes suv that they had hijacked after they had shot and killed an m.i.t. police officer in cambridge, dzhokhar said. that plan, however, fell apart when they realized that the vehicle that they hijacked was

low on gas and ordered the driver to stop at a nearby gas station. the driver used the opportunity to escape and call the police. >> a short time later, the pair was spotted by police. a photo of their standoff with authorities even shows what appears to be a bomb at their feet. perhaps it was the one they planned to use in times square but thankfully they never did. joining me is jonathan dietz. you've been covering this story all day. what can you tell us about this plot? >> well, they were talking about it. they got this information from questioning the surviving brother in that hospital room and i allegedly first said they wanted to come to new york to party and then upon further questioning and intir gating he said we were actually talking about wanting to come here to new york, they had the devices, as you said in the trunk, and

they talked about wanting to come here and it's only because of that gas issue, only because the victim called 911 that police were able to confront them and change their plans. the law enforcement officials were saying, look, they talked about it, but there's no evidence that they did any scouting here in new york, that they had any help here, that they were lone wolves but the investigation is continuing to see if they had any new york connections. >> walk us through how authorities obtained the information. weren't the initial reports, as you said, that they were planning to party? >> right. the way that the police commissioner kelly explained this is, the first day the suspect is more drowsy, he's on more medication, given the injuries that he suffered. so the questions are more sporadic. second day he's much more lucid. they are able to question him in much more detail and they are able to work to get more information out of him and he says that's the explanation and that sunday into monday -- okay,

we have this information coming out today in boston down to fbi officials in new york, the thinking is that there's no credible threat to new york at this time because, as you know, one brother is dead, the other one is in custody but the new york police department and fbi have officials in boston tracking all of the developments to make sure there are no connections in new york city. >> your sources, are they telling you that the law enforcement thinks that this is a spur of a moment kind of decision that the two brothers may have had in the car or was this a thought-out plan that they were going to do boston marathon and then go to new york? >> the best information that we have is that it was a spur of the moment, it was not planned out. there's no indication at all that there was any reconnaissance done. we know the younger brother visited here on occasions but there's no indication that there was nothing nefarious about that trip. the carjacking victim heard the suspect speaking in a foreign language but kept hearing

manhattan, new york. so he alerted that to police and that's why they were able to question the younger brother about this possible new york connection. >> jonathan dietz, thank you. >> thank you. a survivor of the boston attacks. stay with us. i'm here at my house on thanksgiving day, and i have a massive heart attack right in my driveway. the doctor put me on a bayer aspirin regimen. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. go talk to your doctor. you're not indestructible anymore. [ male announcer ] start with an all new award winning car. good. now find the most hard core driver in america. that guy, put him in it. what's this? [ male announcer ] tell him he's about to find out. you're about to find out. [ male announcer ] test it.

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from boston tonight, a story of healing and hope. a 38-year-old rhode island woman survived the bombing attacks. she had her left leg am tu pated below the knee and today she spoke about the attack. >> if someone told me that i was going to have half a leg, basically, at the age of 38 before this happened, i would think i would have never believed it. i think i would have been devastated. and i really haven't had a moment yet of being devastated because i've gotten so much

support from the hospital. i haven't watched tv since the incident. and i think that's one of the things that has been helping me get through this, to just focus on my recovery and how to proceed with my life. i'm sure at some point i will be interested in the details and have an opinion about, you know, the individuals that did this. but i haven't let my mind go there at all. i walked maybe ten feet today on a walker and, you know, everybody was so proud of me. and i thought, oh, gosh, this is going to be a long time. if this distance is something that people are proud of me at this point for. you know, i'm recognizing that i'm going to have some pain that is not going to be controlled and it's going to take a long time to get to where i want to be. >> it might take a long time, heather, but you'll get there. you define boston strong and you're an inspiration to all of

us. if you would like to help heather and the other victims affected by the tragedy, go to onefundboston.org. all of the information is there for donations and it's limnked o our "politicsnation" facebook page. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.

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one of america's greatest political qualities is the lively exchange of ideas. we can disagree without disagreed. year after year is how we transition of power from one administration. it's a triumph of democracy and that's what we saw in dallas today. presidents, past and present, exclusive club, competitors, confidants, and sometimes even

friends. >> we've been called the world's most exclusive club and we do have a pretty nice clubhouse. but the truth is, clubs are more like a support group. >> people began to become the black sheep's son. i'm filled with admiration for you and greet attitude for you to the most needy people on earth. >> it's a great pleasure to be here to honor our son, our oldest son and it's very special for barbara and me. >> we do a lot of speeches together and i like it when we have disagreements. he's disarmingly direct. >> and finally when bush became president, i think my wife and i were the only two volunteer democrats on the platform. >> george bush would call me just to talk politics.

and a chill went up and down my spine when laura said that all their records were digitized. dear god, i hope there's no record of those conversations. >> raise two remarkable, caring, beautiful daughters, even after they tried to discourage them from running for president, dad, you're not as cool as you think you are. mr. president, i can relate. >> it was a great moment. something we don't see very often. i disagreed with president bush on almost everything. we rarely found common ground. i fought him on bombings in puerto rico, criticized his economic policies, call his response to hurricane katrina inexcusable, and i adamantly oppose the war in iraq. today, president bush acknowledged that his decisions created plenty of controversy and disagreement.

but despite our passionate -- >> neighbors help neighbors. public policies promote public compassion. i tried to act on these principles every day. it wasn't always easy and it certainly wasn't always popular. one of the benefits of freedom is that people can disagree. it's fair to say i created plenty of opportunities to exercise that right. >> we had passionate disagreements. but despite that, president bush would invite me to the white house, invite me to the ceremonies, meetings, his last public policy speech in a school in philadelphia. he commended me for doing something with education with our national action network, even though i didn't agree with all of his policies. that is why the venom and kind of inflexible polarization that we face now is so unpardonable to me, because you don't have to

tear a country down. you don't have to tear it apart in the name of building it up. we have always had disagreements in this country but we didn't try to destroy it. we have always voted for our candidates but we didn't try to. it is time for civility again. that's what we saw in dallas today. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. president's day. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in dallas for the opening of the george w. bush presidential library. leading off tonight, what could be a bombshell development in the boston marathon case. police commissioner ray kelly of new york said today the boston marathon bombing suspects were talking about going to new york