and could decisions made in iraq a decade ago cloud our choices now? patrick murphy served in iraq and offers his thoughts on where we go next. >> i'm jonathan capehart in for ari. syria is heating up. immigration and gun control are hot, hot, hot. today we're taking the temperature of the obama presidency. has he been effective. if not, whose fault is that? >> we spend all year latching at washington. they spend one weekend. the annual white house correspondence dinner is tomorrow night. we're getting ready by reliving some of our favorite moments from dinners past. >> that sounds like fun. plus, parenting 101 cycle style. is choosing not to have kids the new gay? >> slowly over the past 11 days, we've been able to fill in the holes surrounding the boston marathon attacks. the equally terrifying attacks that followed a police officer

murdered, an unsuspecting young businessman carjacked, a quapt new england suburb under siege, an entire metropolis on lockdown. today for the first time, the "boston globe" speaks to that carjacking victim. a 26-year-old chinese entrepreneur who had just pulled his brand new mercedes to the curb when the tsarnaev brothers approached and changed his life forever. the story of that night unfolds like a tarantino movie. burnts of harrowing action, laced with dark humor and dialogue absurd for its ordinariness. reminders of how young the girls. were girls, credit limits for students, the marvels of the mercedes and the iphone 5. does anyone listen to cds? all this discussed as the 26-year-old and the 19-year-old driving around. the victim going by his american nickname danny was able to pull off an escape when the brothers stopped at a gas station to fill up the tank. they needed enough fuel to make

it to new york city where they planned to continue their rein of terror in the heart of times square. it turns out danny's iphone helped track the brothers down. one who would die in a gun battle with police. the other now lies in a prison hospital west of boston awaiting charges that could result in the death penalty. jay gray has been in boston with us since the start of all this. is there anything in this interview that could help further the feds' case? >> reporter: toure, i think there is obviously a lot of great information in the interview. what an amazing read. the big question is who will play danny in the hollywood movie of this. it is interesting talking to both federal agents and police on the ground here. the information in this article, not something really new to them. they talked with danny until almost 3:00 in the morning the next day after the gun battle in water town, after they had taken control of his suv. and after they had found

explosives in the back of that vehicle. it is clear, however, that all of the information he provided from the time he escaped, until early in the morning that next day really did craft their investigation. really did help both the feds and local investigators in which direction they should head as they try to track down his brother and as they try to piece together how and why all of this happen. >> all right. jay gray. thank you very much. joining us now, robert shapiro, best known for defending o.j. simpson. if you're dzhokhar's attorney, what would you do? >> this is probably one of the most challenging issues and cases a lawyer could ever face. first, i think it is really important for people to know what teth cal responsibilities are for a lawyer in something like this. the rules of professional conduct are such that lawyers

cannot take cases unless they believe they're worthy and just. except in the case of somebody accused of a crime. and their lawyers, if asked for, asked by the court have an obligation to represent somebody. and cases like this are simply to put the government to their burden. to let them convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that each and every element of the charges, whether they be a conspiracy to commit a crime as atrocious as this, whether he be an aider, an abettor, if each and every element has to be contested by the defense attorney to the best of his or her ability. it is going to be a tremendously up-hill battle. but the other thing that a lawyer can do is convince the client to cooperate with the

government in their investigation. to see if there are any other people that may be involved. to get information that could protect the country in the future. and in exchange, try to save him from the death penalty. so it is not necessarily just how are you going to fight this case per se. but maybe you can save a client from the death penalty with cooperation. >> bob, i remember back when we were all debating whether or not to try terrorists or suspected terrorists in civilian courts in manhattan, to allay some of the concerns if they were acquitted they would go free. some top white house officials came out to say don't worry. we'll get the convictions. similarly, i've heard the same kind of talk around tsarnaev that we have so much evidence that an acquittal is absolutely impossible. does that kind of talk taint the due process? >> well, of course it does. a case like this is so

horrendous. and the publicity surrounding it as it should be has been so intense that one of the real challenges in a civilian court is to be able to get an impartial jury. it is going to be impossible to find peep who don't know or have not heard about the case. so the judges and lawyers are going, the judge and lawyers are going to have to do their best to try to find people who can honestly say they can put aside any preconceptions that they have of the case. and listen to the facts as they unfold in the courtroom. >> and rob, you mentioned some of ethical responsibilities that you have as a defense attorney. but on a more personal 11, i'm totally there philosophically in material of everyone deserving competent representation. but just personally as an

attorney, defending someone like dzhokhar, what is that like? on a personal level, how do you feel if you do get him a reduced sentence or you're able to keep him from the death penalty? >> well, first of all, i have never represented anybody who has been involve in anything as horrible as this. although i obviously have been involved in cases where people have been accused of murder. it is a very, very challenging thing. do you know how i describe it? it is similar to a doctor. and let's say the doctor happens to be one whose family survived in a concentration camp and the police arrest somebody on a horrible crime. perhaps the rape of a child. and the person is coming in, has been shot by the police. is near death. but still is breathing. and the doctor sees this person,

gets the reports, and starts to do a tracheotomy. and notices a swastika on this person's neck. what does the doctor do in that situation? personally, he probably would like to just walk out of the room. but his ethical and professional responsibilities are going to cause him to do his best efforts to sort of help this person survive. and it is almost the same for lawyers. you have to disassociate your personal beliefs from your professional responsibilities. >> so robert, let's get back to the case at hand here. how long do you think this process is going to take from the interviews going now through the trial, through whatever decision is handed down by a judge or jury? >> it depends. you have the potential of the case being tried both in a

federal court, on some issues. and also on a state court. there are numerous charges that can be brought. i would anticipate the process will be rather lengthy. i anticipate when somebody is facing the death penalty, a judge is going to allow more than one attorney to be representing this individual. so i don't think this is something that we're going to see a very speedy and quick resolution. i think people are going to take their time in making sure that all fairness and all constitutional rights are adhered to. that a day in court is given. that all fairness be afforded to the defendant. but at the end of the day, the attorneys have their hands full and a real up-hill battle. and i think the best they could ever do is perhaps save him from

the death penalty. >> robert shapiro, thank you very much. >> you're welcome. thank you. >> tonight at 10:00 p.m. on msnbc, don't miss caught on camera. terror in boston. a comprehensive look at more than 100 hours of drama from the bomb blast to the capture of dzhokhar tsarnaev. at 10:00 tonight only on msnbc. the thin red line. syria causes trouble for the white house. is the president willing to take america into another war? "the cycle" rolls on. it is friday, april 26th. oh, boy. [ groans ] ♪ ♪

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president obama just wrapped up a meeting with king abdullah. one discussion that couldn't be avoided is the situation in syria. that assad is likely using chemical weapons against his own people. >> knowing that potentially chemical weapons have been used inside of syria doesn't tell us when they were used, how they were used, obtaining confirmation and strong evidence. all of those things we have to make sure that we work on with the international community. in many ways, a line has been crossed when we see tens of thousands of innocent people being killed by a regime. >> the intelligence isn't 100% certain and syrian officials are denying it. likening these latest accusations to our claim that iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

so where do we go from here? former pennsylvania congressman patrick murphy served in the iraq war. he brings an interesting perspective on this latest international drama. let me ask you this. look, a reluctance to get involved in syria is understandable. it is complicated over there. and even the most hawkish among us might be of the position, we might have missed our opportunity. maybe we should have gotten involve a year and a half ago when the problem was contained. now it is a complicated mess. how dangerous is it to advance these red lines? to use never again rhetoric as president obama has. and then have world actors like iran and north korea where we have red lines, what to do when those red lines have been crossed? >> well, two things. one, i would agree with you that there has been a reluctance but there are some folks in the right wing of the republican party who are saying we should

be arming the opposition forces. and the problem there is, it is hezbollah versus somewhat al qaeda. so it is hard to pick a side. john mccain and lindsey graham are saying let's arm the opposition which i have serious concerns with. >> sure. >> the second point you're is also, we have these red lines. exactly right. and we should have red lines. that's why we need to get the u.n. security council engaged. it has to be a nato led effort. do you know who is on the sidelines? russia. russia said from the get-go, if syria uses chemical weapons, even though they're our allies, that's a no-no. it is very clear they just did that. what is russia going to do? that's why the big one is russia. that's where we have to put pressure on them and make sure we do the right thing. >> the whole point of having a red line is say if you cross it, we will get more involved. we will do something more. be it further articling of

rebels or sending boots on the ground. something. but what is the benefit to america to getting more and more involved in this civil war in syria and can you explain that without about the benefit to israel? >> sure. two things. one, i'm not advocating, i want to make sure that we don't get involved. i think we have to do our due diligence. i'm the reluctant warrior philosophy. i'm not an isolationist but i'm not a war hawk. i've been against the iraq war, et cetera. i will say that leaving israel out of it, it is important to recognize that jordan is one of our greatest allies in the middle east. and jordan is really suffering. there are tens of thousands of people that are flocking from syria into jordan and into lebanon. and that humanitarian crisis is really putting an incredible strain on these allies. and especially jordan. there was just a riot this week. now again, to solve the problem.

i'm not again advocating for, to get involved in a limits, in a civil war in the middle of syria. but we should be getting involved with the humanitarian crisis and address that. and that is very expensive. >> i'm sorry. you make me sound like i'm picking on israel in particular. i'm not picking on israel in particular but that's typically the reason why we do everything we do in the middle east. i care about jordan. i care very much about lebanon but i'm still left with the fact, what does this have to do with us? being the world policemen hasn't gotten us that far. >> i agree with you. i think that's why we should be the reluctant warrior as a country. but we have to understand that the war drums are beating in america. just today, just this morning in the "washington post," joe lieberman said america cannot be an isolationist. this is drum rattling that you're going to be hearing these next several weeks. we've got to engage. we've got to engage. i'm saying time-out.

we've already committed $250 million to syria. $250 million. how about putting that into america? because i don't want to get involved in a civil war. especially when that civil war in syria is between hezbollah and al qaeda. that is a lose/lose situation if you ask me. >> and patrick, i think what you and toure are both talking about is that tough balance of not getting involved places where we don't need to, versus the humanitarian tragedies that we want to intervene and you cannot be in all places at all times. it is a tough balance to figure out when and where you should be and how to get involved. i want to turn to the politics of this situation. we alluded to it in the lead. how much does the legacy of iraq and the fact that our government said there were wmds, as we all know. there were not wmds. how heavy does that legacy of iraq hang over the decision to get involved in this conflict,

both in terms of our domestic politics, but also in materials of our international credibility and our ability to put pressure on russia. >> that's a great question. what you have here is three intelligence agencies. you have israel, france, and i believe it was great britain that came and said, these guys have used chemical weapons on their own people. against the opposition forces. and now we're saying, hey, that's a red line. a time-out. that is definitely against all geneva and hague conventions. they're saying this is another iraq. the united states has given false information. with these other countries coming forward with clear intelligence which our own intelligence agencies have confirmed, we need to make sure that russia does the right thing. and we need nato to lead. we can't, unlike iraq where we led and carried 95% of the ball, this is where nato has to step

up. and we can't not just be the policemen of the world but we cannot be the bank of the world. we can't keep funding these things. for those folks in the u.s. senate like john mccain and lindsey graham to say we should be arming the opposition forces when those on that sigss force are composed of thousands of al qaeda members makes no sense. at all. >> so patrick, red lines are being crossed. as you mentioned, there are drum beats for a war. but you know, if the president decides that the united states must get involved in syria, how on earth does he rally support on capitol hill to do something. whether it is boots on the ground. using military aircraft. when you have the rand pauls of the senate who don't want the united states to do anything and then you have the hawks in the senate, meaning senator mccain and former senator joe lieberman out there pushing the united states into action. how does the president rally support in congress for whatever action he might have to take?

>> well, i think it will be hard. i won't underestimate the fact that the military industrial complex and the majority of the u.s. senators and the republican party, a lot of them are picking for a fight. and this is an example for us to get engaged and involved. to me, that's why i think barack obama is getting it right. he is doing his due diligence. he is not rushing to war and he is not rushing to get the american people engaged in an unnecessary war or an involvement, frankly, in the middle of a civil war of. >> okay. we will be watching to see how this turns out. patrick murphy, thank you for joining us. straight ahead, no matter how you feel about president obama, how effective is he at getting things done? that's next. we've all had those moments.

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with thursday's dedication of the george w. bush library in dallas and all five living presidents past and present on hand, that would be a good time to take the temperature of where president obama is with serious issues like terrorism, syria and the budget front and center. the president's approval rating according to the "washington post" is 47%. that is the same number former president bush had about the same time in his administration. in sunday's new york times, maureen dowd wrote this about the defeat of the background check. how is it the president won the argument on gun safety with the public and lost in the senate? it is because he doesn't know how to work the system. it is clear now that he doesn't want to learn or even hire some clever people who can tell him how to do it or do it for him. i read that and threw paper across the room. in an apparent counter point to dowd, our own chuck todd said those who understand how d.c. works know it is hard to get the vote in the senate and our poll

was predictable. are people write or wrong? to answer that and more, we bring inonatn alter. the center holds. we've got a table full of jonlths and a woman married to a jonathan. i'm feeling the odd man out. what do you think? is the president being rightly or wrongly blamed? >> well, there's a for having me. this is apply first time on your show. affirmative action for bald guys over 50. >> we just started the program. >> i think that maureen dowd is on to something but she overstated the case. the way i describe it, barack obama is missing the smooze gene. he doesn't like that part of politics where you have to flatter these members of congress or ceos or other people. and he does it but he's not needy himself. their neediness and their need

for the love is an abstraction to him. he doesn't actually get at a fundamental level -- >> but in a polarized environment, just slapping backs, that won't do anything. >> it probably won't. that's why as i said, i think it is unfair to say that this is why he has failed. it might be that smoozing wouldn't make any difference in our environment. it is another tool in the tool box. and i think he recognizes this himself now. and he's gone on what they call a charm offensive. spending a lot more time with the members of congress and he lost this particular vote. but i think we'll win some in the days to come. it is very important to remember that he got a tremendous amount accomplished in his first two years. more than any president since lyndon johnson. so those who say he doesn't get his way with congress and than gotten things done haven't looked at the record. >> isn't part of the problem, people like maureen dowd like to blame the president for list own, for his problems in this area. but how much blame should be

placed on republicans and their recalcitrants? we've got two books out there that show before the man was inaugurated, they were meeting in a. the thing that maureen dowd was saying there were four democrats and you know, you can raise questions about why were they not brought on board. the problem is, no president gets to do that. people have such a rose colored view of history. franklin roosevelt, the sainted franklin roosevelt. when i was working on my book about him i learn in 1938, he tried to punish those democrats who were voting against him. whom he needed. by campaigning against them in primaries. he left every race that he tried to intervene in except for one. and they continued to defy him. so, and plenty of democrats defied lyndon johnson.

this notion that obama's predecessors had complete party unity and could twist arm successfully every time. that's at odds with the whole history of this country where politicians get elected to office and believe it or not, actually think for themselves sometimes and defy american presidents. so you want him to have every edge that he can get. and he kneads to get, he needs to give them more attention. to say he is a failure at getting things done underestimates the opposition. what i call his enemies. >> regarding those senators, it is an open question. how many could have been swayed if they were going to get to 60 rather than knowing that they were going to fall short. i would say you know, we pride ourselves on being a big tent party. part of why we can hold the senate is because we have a range of ideological views and people who fit the ideology of their state. the other thing i was thinking about, if you take two issues of

gun control and immigration. you know another critique of the president that we hear all the time is that he is, quote, failed to lead on. gun control you can't say. that he was out there heart and soul. you knew exactly where he stood. he put his political capital, he gave it everything he could really and truly. on immigration, on the other hand, which looks like it has a very likely chance of passing, he's been more passive. he's let the gang of eight take the lead. is not it possible that actually, that sort of hands-off approach, him not getting involved so directly and kind of polarizing the issue is actually more effective? >> sometimes it is. critics call it leading from behind. dwight eisenhower who was at issue, they called it the hidden hand presidency. there is some of that with barack obama. take something like the end of don't ask don't tell. rather than having a frontal charge from the white house which probably would have lost. he let the military take the lead. he was very involved in telling

the military at the beginning of 2010, this year, you're going to take the lead on don't ask don't tell. you run point for me. give me cover on this. and they did it very skillfully. they got that repeal. that created political space for gay marriage. think about it. if we still had the don't ask don't tell policy, i doubt we would have seen the movement on gay marriage. so leadership takes different forms. just manning the barricades. remember in 200 flan, everybody said why isn't obama out there with his own health care plan? single payer, public option. do you know what? by being a little more clever about it, he got something accomplished that progressives, universal coverage. progressives have wanted it for literally 100 years since the bull moose platform of 2012. none could get it until barack obama. >> i feel like kornacki is here. the bull mass party. >> it is like you're inside my brain right now.

i was going to ask you, get out of there! i was going to ask you, what the calculus of obama care does to obama's legacy? if you wouldn't mind playing pretend with me. let's pretend that in ten years or so, all the republican predictions about obama care come true. and that it is, it proves to be too expensive and quality of carrying down. and the sky falls and obama care is deemed by history to be an unworkable failure. what is that change in terms of obama's legacy? how much of it is wrapped up in that monumental historic passing of health care? >> it is a great question. and i think a lot of his legacy is wrapped up in it. although there could be things that happen overseas that overshadow that. thing like immigration reform and expanding student loans are in that.

i think the one thing that maybe critics need to account for. when these programs don't work at first, they can be fixed. so for instance, social security passed in 1935. it was fixed a half dozen times. changed, mended, improved, over the next 30 years. welfare reform which people remember from 1996. when bill clinton signed on to that and join with the republican congress. there were problems with it of and they fixed that a couple of years later. so obama care can be patched, fixed, as long as people want it to work. the problem with the republican party right now is they want it to fail. which really is not good for the american people who have a chance of really being helped by this program. and there is kind of a disrespect for the whole idea of government and the will of the people as expressed in the passage of legislation. it is a done deal.

republicans lost the election. they should get on with trying to improve obama care and defund it which is what they're doing right now. >> if the sky falls, that will definitely hurt obama's leg six thank you very much. up next, the event that has the ladies of the cycle getting all gussied up. ♪

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i wouldn't trade him for the world. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. if you're caring for a child with special needs, our innovative special care program offers strategies that can help. the hottest ticket in d.c. is for the annual white house correspondence dinner, agency it is widely known, nerd prom. the only time of year when hollywood stars descend on washington to rub elbows with us journalists and of course, the president. and while it doesn't have the glamour of the oscars, not by a long shot, e, our sister channel, will be hosting a special red carpet preshow this year so take that, hollywood. i won't be there because i've

got some sense. but your friendly cyclists s.e. and toure will be. i'll be watching it live on msnbc. that's what we call a plug. >> well done. >> before we nerd prom, we thought we would relive our favorite moments from dinners past. >> what have you got? >> i thought we were going to a tape. my favorite moment, give me a break, toure. two years ago, at the white house correspondence dinner, there was the president hammering donald trump about the tough decisions he would have to make. whether he would fire gary bousy or someone else. little did we know, 36 hours later he had given the order to off bin laden. >> in an episode of celebrity apprentice at the steakhouse, the men's cooking team did not impress the judges from omaha

steaks. and there was a lot of blame to go around. but you, mr. trump, recognized that the real problem was a lack of leadership. so ultimately, you didn't blame little john or meatloaf. you fired gary busey. and these are the kinds of decisions that would keep me up at night. >> i love that. i love that. mine is also an awkward sort of in person but beautiful, wonderful roasting which was when stephen colbert hosted for george w. bush. >> guys like us, we don't pay attention to the polls. we know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in reality. and reality has a well known liberal bias. >> i don't know what w. expected when colbert was asked to do it. but he was just himself. and it was amazing. he was his character, stephen colbert. >> so continuing the

awkwardness, i wanted to do something that would hit a little closer to home. >> i of course am contractually obligated to attend the msnbc party tonight. everyone knows how that works. president obama makes the kool-aid and everyone there drinks it. for apply good friend brian, i don't know if anyone heard about this. but he handed in london to cover the royal wedding only to turn back around and return to america to cover the tornadoes in alabama. it was incredibly brave and courageous and that is a direct quote from brian williams. >> brian williams, i'm sure you're watching. i'm sorry. i just wanted to bless with you a little bit. we love you. >> are you done? >> i'm high on the kool-aid, apparently. >> s.e., do you have one? >> she's not there. >> any way, sorry, s.e. we'll see her in the next segment. up next, is not having a baby the new gay? what? a one woman mission to end

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achieve your dreams. liquid gold. eat like that guy you know. achieve your dreams. liquid gold. angie's liat angie's list, i autyou'll find reviews. on everything from home repair to healthcare written by people just like you. if you want to save yourself time and avoid a hassle, go to angie's list. at angie's list, you'll find the right person to do the job you need. and you'll find the right person quickly and easily. i'm busy, busy, busy, busy. thank goodness for angie's list. from roofers to plumbers to dentists and more, angie's list -- reviews you can trust. oh, angie? i have her on speed dial. it's not that i don't want kids. i just don't want to be a mom. could i easily be a dad. i could lay on the couch and have my kid come up to me for the first time when they're 5 years old and go, dad, can i go

outside? i don't know. go ask your mother. that i could do. i would be amazing. >> that is comedian jen kirkman on chelsea lately. the stand-up comedian is out with a new book. still laughing about that clip. it is called, i can barely take care of myself. tales from a happy life without kids. i'm thinking right now, probably not the best time for me to be reading there book but i'm sure it is great for everybody else to read. in it kirkman said she simply doesn't have the mom's gene's gene. her answer to monsters under the bag, her response is, of course there's a monday sister unyour bed. that's where they live. she's been married. she watched a sister and friends start families with little ones but said she is child-free by choice and instinct. and after years of friends and strangers hassling her for not getting pregnant, she is on a public and comedic campaign to stop the bullying from breeders like me.

i am currently expecting a baby right now. i know i must be jen's worst nightmare. comedian and author jen kirkman joins me now. thanks for being with us. i did read some of the book despite my monologue there. >> i think would you love it. it is a book with how close i am with my mom. what a ridiculous kid i was. there's something for everyone. it is definitely not anti-mom. >> yes, from what i read, that is what i saw as well. but did i feel like you had this impression that mothers like always had this mom gene and were baby crazy and feel like they know exactly what to do with an infant as soon as they arrive. and i already have a daughter and i still feel like i have no idea what to do with this newborn who is about to come out. so are you anti-child on some deeper level than that? >> no. no, i'm not anti-anything. i'm just anti-people having bad, we have a small talk epidemic in this country. the only thing people can think

about to talk about, do you have kids? why don't you want kids? i agree with you. i don't really think that a lot of women naturally have this mom gene. that's what terrifies me. is they give you a baby and then they tell you to leave. the hospital. i don't think i could handle one more thing more helpless than me in my life. i admire moms who can do it. i just don't have it in me. >> i'm curious what else you think about being a father, i mean, your description of it right there is actually totally wrong. that never happens. and i'm just sitting there and the kid says can do i something? go ask your mother. sometime you might be telling your kid, no, you cannot do something. the mom is so much more nuanced. like i have so many feelings about my feelings. i'm like, no, you can't have any more ice cream. go to bed. so what is being a father to you? >> well, you know, my friends who have kids, the kid seems to

really bond with the mom for the first two years and the dad is waiting around like hello, i'm here, i'm the father. i think that's what it is. you get like a three-year vacation. and then you start raising your kid at age five. i'm no expert. i know you have me on, i hope no one watching there thinks i'm a child rearing expert. >> but the first three months, the kid doesn't even know you exist. >> i'll take your word for it. >> they know you exist when they're 18 and need money. >> so jen, you just mentioned this. the small pox -- the small talk epidemic. take a look at this. >> if you need name of a surrogate service, that is flawless. >> it's not a surrogate situation. we're just not having children. >> you don't want kids? >> no, we love them. it's just not for us. >> so it's going to be just you

two? >> i just love that. just because of the cringe worthy nature of that interaction. what is your most cringe worthy episode like that? like that? >> i love that scene in that movie. i think i stood up and cheered in the theater and a bunch of gay guys told me to sit down. i think my most cringe worthy thing when people start projecting about my future and say, who's going to take care of you when you get old? i think "a" servants, "b" just because you have kids doesn't mean they'll want to take care of you. they could hate you, deserted island. that's the most cringe worthy things. >> amen to the servants. i'm with you there. you had a revelation one night where you discovered that being child free is the new gay. you write, "we're the new disenfranchised group. people think we're irresponsible, immoral sluts and

our lifestyle is up for debate." as a childless 30-something, i hear you, sister, but in all seriousness, what rights of yours are being impeded as a childless woman? >> well, absolutely. i mean, none of them are, and, again, this is a comedic book written with a little bit of hyperbole just to get the point across. i talked to a lot of my gay friends who are like, i know what you mean, it's more the party conversation level of someone who's just very intrigued by your lifestyle. absolutely, we are not a disenfranchised group like gay people who don't have rights and are, you know, their lives are at stake. i absolutely didn't mean that at all. again, it is a comedic book. >> sure. >> there will be sentences that might be startling but the sn s sentences that come before and after them explain them. i promise. i don't want any gay people to hate me. >> don't worry, i've given you a pass. i've given you a pass, jen. it's all right. >> all right. so jen, last thing for those of

us who are boring and can only talk about our kids. give us advice. what are things we should small talk about? >> people stay away from religion and politics but i think those are fun things to talk about at parties. >> absolutely. >> just pretend you're on "the cycle" when you're at a party. not a love cycle but "the cycle." i think that would be great. ar ask people questions, hey, what are you doing? i don't think all moms are the same. for moms out there that are like that, just ask questions and nod. >> and don't judge. okay. got it. jen kirk nan, thanks so much. >> thank you, guys. we polled you, our facebook friends asking if you have ever been pressured by your parents or other family and friends to have kids. believe it or not, the overwhelming response was no. >> that's insane. >> so jen, maybe there's nothing to worry about after all. anyway, no pressure, but we hope you will like us on facebook and follow us on twitter. up next, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

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today. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility. what's your policy? the immigration debate is rife with fear. fear of poor people streaming across the borders in droves dying to take advantage of our welfare state and thus overburdening our fragile economy. fear of evil people coming here to stay for years even though they hate america. waiting to enact a terrorist plot. fear of brown people arriving in such large numbers that they'll change the demographics and thus the character of this great

nation. immigrants are demagogued as thieves either of american services, jobs, freedom, or of its very soul. these are very seductive arguments for many, but they're bankrupt. there's no reason to fear immigration. first of all, the idea that immigrants consume more than they generate is simply backwards. undocumented workers pay taxes. 75% of them pay payroll taxes, adding $15 billion a year to social security. and very few are eligible to receive entitlements. they are makers and not takers. if we were to legalize our undocumented population, we'd add $1.5 trillion to our gdp over the next decade. especially because adding workers with legal protection and labor rights would exert upward pressure on wages. amnesty would create a sudden increase in tax revenue. of course, no one in congress is proposing amnesty. a 13-year pathway including $2,000 in fines is far from amnesty. but there's many ways immigrants are already helping the economy.

home ownership among immigrants has been steady increasing over the past decade, helping to boost our housing recovery. and because as adam smith said, specialization makes economies work better in states with more undocumented workers, the skilled workers make more, work more hours and overall productivity has grown 10%. yes, undocumented have lowered wages for citizens without high school dim palomas ploems, undocumenteds are easy ma liplated. employers wouldn't with able to pull down all wages via undocumenteds. but the unintended damage they do to the working class makes it easy for politicians to d demagogue and demonize. nothing binds like a common enemy. it's easy to paint immigrants as part of the job and entitlement problem and worse, part of a scary future where white americans are no longer the minority, no longer the majority, and thus no longer in

power. but studies show hispanic immigrants are becoming americanized just as previous waves of italian and irish and other immigrants did. allowing those immigrants to come into the center of american life, just as allowing blacks and women and gays to enter the center of american society has been empowering for america economically and spiritually as well. the idea that america's essence is at risk is fraudulent. the identity of this nation has been influx since its birth. that's who we are. our national identity is fluid. just like american english. it grows by borrowing words from other languages and making those words our own. but it's all still english. in the same way we take in people from other nations and eventually they become one of us and they change our nation for the better and we still remain america. and now a great american from another land, martin bashir. >> not yet. i'm not a citizen yet, but i'm on my way. good afternoon, it's friday april the 26th, and congress has acted to ease the pain of the

sequester for themselves. they are now free to travel across the country. >> thousands of flights were delayed this week because of the sequester. >> how come you didn't tell us about this beforehand? >> majority of our employees including these eventual workers would have to be furloughed. >> how come you didn't tell us about this beforehand? >> air traffic controllers and airport security will see cutbacks. >> is anybody not going to stand up and call his bluff? >> i hope and believe the republicans will allow the sequestration will go into effect? >> the impact of this policy won't be felt overnight, but it will be real. >> the flames after catastrophe. >> we will preserve the spending reductions of the sequester. >> it's going to be very painful for the flying public. >> is the president exaggerating? >> absolutely. >> let's be clear, it's less than 2% of your budget. >> it's a lot of money. >> i don't know whether it's going to hurt the economy or not. >> but it will be real. >> how come you didn't tell us