aquatic manipulation. he boils his water perfectly for his velveeta shells & cheese. advantage. this guy. liquid gold. eat like that guy you know. this morning my question. what happens if congress holds a hearing and no one comes? plus, this week in voter suppression. tarheel envision part two. and selling the news to billionaire ideologues? but first the decider is back. just as we make the legacy all too clear. good morning. i'm melissa harris perry. it was a beautiful day thursday in dallas, texas. all five living u.s. presidents and first ladies were in their

ceremonial finest. all assembled for the pomp and circumstance of inaugurating a presidential library. the brick and lime ston george w. bush library on the campus was dedicated this week along with the media blitz rollout. this is exactly what a presidential library really is about. it's the legacy of whatever the president is, but the man himself spoke briefly but directly to that legacy. >> when future generations come to this this library and study this administration, they're going to find out that we stayed true to our convictions. plz and when our freedom came under attack we made the tough decisions required to keep the american people safe. >> tough decisions for sure. ones that you as a visitor are

invited to judge as the nation's 43rd presidential library. if you're in dallas some time soon you can adjudicate former president bush's decision. the library presents you with an interactive video that lays out stark choices that came aross the desk of president bush when he was in the oval office. questions like how to behave after the nation's terrorist attacks. the decisions that head to be made were unquestionably difficult. and the answer set a new standard for how to respond to terrorism however you feel about the eight years that bush led the nation, his administration wrote the book on how americans respond to a terror attack. the response playbook goes like this. first, you thank the first responders, police, firefighters, emts, nurses, firefighters and bystanders that charge up the stairs sbo the

flames of the burning building with little concern for their own sifty. this national recognition is truly an important part of our collective healing process. it's ha hope from knowing someone will always run toward the fire, not away from it, no matter what that allows us to get back to business as as usual. then the next thing we do is assign blame. the enemy, you see, must be identified and his discernible intentions must be obtained. since 9/11 the enemy has now become a set of ideas and identities. third, we must affirm our strength in the face of terror and respond with the entire capacity of the united states. oh, yeah. that is on display in dallas. and even as americans are

preparing for retaliation, so too are we expected to depart with some of our rights. so if you were following the manual in the days since the boston marathon bombing i would have seen almost all of these parameters have been met. the first responders were thanked and cheered. the enemy was quickly tied to a well understood -- of terrorist youth. that continuity then and now is undeniable, but not inevidenceable. let's not forget september 11th was not the first time they were acts of terrorism this nation had to recover from. there was the gruesome, inhumane and consistent acts by the ku klux klan. the act of terrorism that devastated the neighbors. the 16th street baptist church, killing four precious little

girls. or the holm city bombing that left 168 people dead and hundreds more injured and on and on throughout our history. each of these events had different responses and outcomes. certainly 9/11 was the moment that america at large recognized we were thrust onto a broader terrorist stage. an age that demand new responses. and it was president george w. bush who cast what was possible in black and white with the mentality of either you're with us or you're against us. that's not to say there should have been leniency for, or there should have been no sort of response to what happened in boston, but 12 years after 9/11 it should be known the way we respond to terror may in fact require multiple shades of gray. at my table is bob herbert, senior fellow at the left

leaning organization. and executive producer of moral courage television. james carrafono and david ziron, who is sports editor for the left leading magazine "the nation" mag zone. so good to have you all here. i want to start with this idea that george wvpt bush administration gives us our first way of thinking about how we're going to respond. what do you think the legacy? >> well, first i'm thrilled to be sitting here on the left hand side of the table. you brought up a really good point. i looked back and looked in history and every generation of americans going back too colonial era were worried about being murdered and some of the most egregious are real.

it makes anything we did post 9/11 looks pretty modest. comparison to world war i, world war ii and even in respects to the korean war was not anywhere near the record. >> >> but in world war ii we have camps for japanese citizens. we untheir ilt, even though we didn't have the word but we can say, okay, it wasn't that. we also have to be careful to recognize how problematic those policies were. >> yeah, not as bad as the bomber raids isn't great for the bush administration. >> it could be an exhibit in dallas. >> i'm a sports writer by trade. that means i get to know the family of pat tillman. the story of pat tillman, the nfl player turned army ranger who died in an instance of

friendly firing in afghanistan. pat tillman who thought the war in iraq was illegal. i great with pat tillman about that. his family was lied to about the circumstances surrounding his death. and george w. bush gave speeches about pat tillman that were lies. every time i hear about his principles i keep wonder why he's not on trial for war crimes for lying to the families of pat tillman, for the families that have died in the middle east. i wonder why the obama administration chose continuity instead of a break. >> that point, which is one that is a critique often levelled against president obama, especially on the loeft, is the idea that whatever happened in the george w. bush administration became the new normative. it became the normal way to respond so we now see the scripts emerging.

>> all of this stuff becomes all right because it's put in the contest of a war. we declared war against terror, which is a war against tactic, which is silly. and you know now we have mi militarized everything. we see it as an attack to the state as opposed to an attack against individuals. we see it as an act of war instead of crime. then you louz all perspective if it's not really ang act of war. >> i would say two things. post 9/11 we forget. we didn't know what was coming next. and in many sense they were ad hocking it all the way. i wouldn't disagree that this is continuity. i'll give you a good example. where i'm extremely proud of secretary nap lit know. you flash the color coded alert

system. a good risk is understandable, actionable, credible. the color code is orange. did anybody stop? it was nuts. when the secretary came to office, we said, this is really nuts. even knowing some people may criticize her in the department for saying we are not worried about the war. it was a dumb idea done as a knee jerk reaction sometimes it's easy to look at george w. bush like he's a bad guy. he's evil. and instead say we just didn't know. he was muddling through because of what he himself said. because it was an unknown moment. during his speech and the opening of the library. yes, we often don't know. wouldn't it be a refreshing

change for any politician today to stand up and say i don't know the answer to that. we are doing the best we can. stay tuned and give us your feedback. we are trying. i think you made a very interesting point. the notion of individuals have taken a backseat to the notion of states and groups being identified. i would say even progressives have fed into that cycle. so we can never forget the ugly debate around the ground zero mosque. what i noticed -- actually what i noticed is during that time people would be for or against the project based only on how offended they felt by people who

disagreed with them. it had very little to do tw the merits of the problem but rather who i hate and who ticks me off the most. i would suggest now we have enough distance from 9/11 that we can use our freedoms to do something more constructive than hate. that is ask questions. >> let's take a break. we're going to come back. this is exactly where i want to pick up. are we asking the right questions in a moment like this? we'll be back. ngs] ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, llllet's get ready to bundlllllle... [ holding final syllable ] oh, yeah, sorry! let's get ready to bundle and save. now, that's progressive. oh, i think i broke my spleen!

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i call to order this joint hearing of the foreign affairs sub committee on europe, eurasia and emerging threats on sub committee, terrorist and trade. today's topic is islamic

extremism in chechnya a threat to the u.s. homeland? question. >> yeah. that happened. he almost looked a little bit like he was smiling. right? because it happened yesterday in our nation's house of representatives. that's our tax dollars at work because the two suspects in the boston marathon, only one of whom is still alive, mind you, and one is a long-time u.s. resident and the other is a citizen of off chechnyan decent? what were they told? the islamist presence poses little strategic threat to the united states. great. and also chechnya is not the czech republic. so you say we should be asking questions. are these the questions we should be asking? >> i have no idea what questions he was about to launch into. quite frankly i was asleep by the time he got to this that point. before the break i was saying i think we're far enough now from 9/11 that more of us can use our freedoms to be asking questions. and back to the so-called ground

zero mosque debate. did anybody vocally ask will there be segregation between men and women in this mosque? if there was racial segregation, i have to believe many more progressives would have been questioning the merits of the so-called ground zero mosque. but very few, if any asked, what about segregation between men and women? and in fact, just so you know i asked that after the dust settled to the imam who was fronting this. he admitted that there would be. imagine if that had been the case during the debate. so why didn't we ask more questions? and why is it that people who claim to be critical thinkers and you find a lot of progressives who claim that about themselves, so easily fall for the opposite? >> so i think what is useful here, i'm not sure -- i'm nerve about asking questions about the

internal politics. >> but it's not internal. it's about america's values. it's about what we stand for as a country. >> but state values don't get to dictate religious practices within worship service. >> but public values ought to be brought to bear on the debate itself. >> i mean, this speaks to another aspect of the post 9/11 world. that's islamaphobia. this is something that needs to be part of the discussion. you have people from the ground zero of white mountains. and you see one of the immediate reactions, i'm sure you heard this too, a lot of my friends, brown and black were like, i'm scared to go outside. i'm scared of celebrations. i'm scared of reactions. if you are white and admit a transgression it's an individual punishment, an individual gaze,

an individual focus. if it's colored it becomes a terrorist. we're going to find out if it was foreign terrorists or home grown murders. you see that dichotomy. it's about a collective military response with the crap rolling down the shoulders of brown and black people. >> this is just days after september 11th. this is september 20th, 2001. this is not just a feeling that this is true. i mean, we heard our president say exactly this. you're with us or you're against us. >> we will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another. drive them from place-to-place until there's no refuge or no rest. and we will pursue nations that provide aid of safe haven to terrorism. every nation in every region now

has a decision to make. either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. >> so in this case the state that provided safe haven was, you know, massachusetts. >> i think that's a good point. i'm proud of america post boston. we weren't near as whack i can as we were post 9/11. part of that is because we had the experience of the last ten years. i thought it was a really good point. we've been at the business for ten years. we know what is right and what is wrong. they were some people after boston and immigration is a good example. yet, people jump up and say we need an immigration bill because of boston. oh my god. we can't look at this immigration bill because of boston. i am disappointed with the people who play politics because of the boston tragedy. the people in boston did an amazing job. the rest of us weren't totally

wha whacky. a lot of people assume that ordinary people are dupes. we're not. we're not. >> granted, we're not dupes. but i'm nervous about sitting in a moment when there are prisoners at guantanamo bay starving themselves to death because of our practices there and say i'm proud of america's response because we have figured out what's right and wrong. well, actually the american people, maybe. i'm prepared to say the american people. but as an american state, and we are complicit in it because we are a democracy that chooses our leaders, we can't ignore it. >> you have libd say graham saying the war against rd call islam continues and radical islam is on the march. presumably because of these two very dangerous characters up in boston.

that's not radical islam on the march. >> these are two young men that happen to have a chechnya past. you're going to take a quick break. i want to bring somebody to this the table specifically who lost someone in 9/11 so that we can have a conversation in part. i want to be sure i'm not missing this. it looks different when you have in fact victimized by it. when we come back. so now i can help make this a great block party. ♪ [ male announcer ] advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an anti-inflammatory and a long-acting bronchodilator working together to help improve your lung function all day. advair won't replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than twice a day. people with copd taking advair may have a higher chance of pneumonia. advair may increase your risk of osteoporosis and some eye problems.

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terror attack of september 11, 2001. thank you for being here today. >> you're welcome. >> start by telling me about jimmy who himself was one of the people who ran in, not out. >> they was 29 years old. he was a police officer for eight years before he went to the fire department. it was one of the first ones in the tour. he had three younger brothers. he was the hero before 9/11. he was the hero after 9/11. he brightened up the room. we miss him terribly. he's not in any marriages, no weddings. hadn't seen his nieces and nephews born. that life was taken away at an early age. we miss him terribly. so when you saw the stories of boston, does it bring it back? >> oh, yeah, it brings it back

all the time. we were down by the mosque yesterday. there's human remains. there's a thousand families that have never had a burial at all. and we reached out to mayor bloomberg. they will help find the remains. they've had flooding down there. they don't use any common sense. people told us the equality was find. nothing was held accountable. these tr the problems that we have. the no fly list. people are flying wherever they want to go. building codes are on less frin gent clothes. we were told don't do it. the '93 judge told them not to do it. they need to be held accountable, all the people coming up with this plan. >> i've heard you say the word accountable.

we sit here in the media and debate this question, right. should we read the rights to the suspects? this is not just a matter of media, right? this is your life. you look at our legacy as a country. have we argued the legacy of those lost? the choices we have been make sng. >> personally, i don't think so. what have we done. people are coming in. people are getting hurt. we're trying to do a good job. we promoted the guy. you have to have some kint of accountability. are we doing it? we're trying to do what we can. # i almost died in guantanamo.

nothing is getting done down there. there's been about ten trials of military. the shoe bomber has come and been tried and put in jail already. we're proactive. we get a shoe bomber, we check shoes. let's be more proactive. if you can't do the job, step aside and let one else do it. we are going to check the no-fly list. not let people get hurt the way i was hurt in 9/11. >> so when it comes to a trial f for khalid sheikh mohammed, do you care it's civilian trial or is it getting the trial done. >> we want to get the trial done. but the republicans and the democrats are playing political football with the case instead of thinking of the families.

a lot of parents have died off. we have no justice. he's been down there laughing, saying he's proud he killed our loved ones, he's glad i killed the loves ones. he's laughing. we can't bring him back and try him. the federals have tried over 250 terrorists. they've done a great job. everybody is yelling miranda rights, this and that. they're they're playing politics. the federal courts is the better way to do it. >> stay with us. i want to be sure we talk about the other groups of families. also the newtown families, the families in chicago and new orleans, the day-to-day violence and i want to think about how we honor their legacy and memory in terms of the work that we are or are not doing in terms of policymaking.

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officials understand they must do something. compare that to our sleepwalking drowsiness that killed some 86 americans every day. after the blaring alarm of new town our officials decided to catch a few more winks and ignore the need to make serious changes in the gun laws. last week a blast of the texas fertilizer plant in west killed 14, but it seems to have drawn nothing more than a yawn of disinterest about workplace safety. does make you wonder when we will wake up to the clear and present dangers that we face. wli can't we do something on these issues? >> i think because we don't have real perspective. as serious as terror is, we feel that we need to jump on it and do something about it. we lose that sense of purpose and resolve when you look at the

other issues. and i also think part of it has to do with media coverage. there's really over the top media coverage of acts of terror. as important as it is, we just go crazy over it. >> wall to wall. but we have tremendous violence that goes on in the country and we don't pay any similar attention to it. then you talk about workplace safety, which is a grim problem and perpetually with us. we don't pay any attention to that at all. >> a mean has emerged since the boston bombings. if the tsarnaev brothers were shooters rather than bombers, would we call it terrorism? this is such a penetrating question. the language that woe put to

what happens around us, infrequently or day in and day out. i know a guy who lives in brooklyn who used to be in jail for murdering someone with a gun who is now part of a group that tries to stop gun violence. he says routinely he sees people on their stoops, on their steps, just accepting the shots that they hear around them as if that's just the way it is. so maybe because people have not accepted terrorism, that is to say bombings as the way it is but have accepted shootings as the way it is that we somehow subconsciously assign different value to the lives of the people taken by this kind of violence. >> but then this is the shame, right? we are talking about them feeling proud of america and we have done some things well and badly. what we have done badly is to address this kind of violence. >> you said these things happen.

and there's a bhand that politicians do something. what is the best combination? obviously they're both well. they make you safe and free. what happens is politicians needily start on i must do something. and then the problem is we spend ten years trying to unscrew it and figure it out. what has been interesting is our willingness in a post boston moment to give up certain parts of our civil liberties. in a way that we're not willing to do for the second amendment. fifth amendment, who cares? second amendment, we're going to hold that if we have new talent and hidea died?

>> you don't need 16 rounds. this is what happens with the massacres. it's the politicians who have the problem. his state doesn't want gun control. he's being two faced on the whole issue. you need background checks but everybody has a right to bear arms. >> but it feels like there's a reasonable place wheen the right to bear arms and current deregulation. >> policy is a tumbling block in all of this stuff. even those in support of second amendment rights. the same thing happens when you talk about violence and civil liberties. i don't think americans want to give up civil liberties in any kind of gross way. but the politicians approach this differently.

they look at it in a narrow way. what is best for them? what has to do with the next election and it becomes very difficult, if not impossible to make progress. >> let's listen to president obama in west, texas. he says something useful to us in this moment. >> today i see in the people of west in your eyes that what makes west special isn't going to go away. and instead of changing who you are, this strategy has simply revealed who you've always been. >> it reveals who you are. he's talking to the family, to the community living with this tragedy. it also reveals who we are as a country. i think we can walk through every major piece of legislation that we've had post 9/11 and make similar complaints.

you y can do the same thing with obama care or dodd frank. >> we didn't hardly rush in on health care. i mean it took us 35 years to pass anything. >> we didn't spend 35 years looking at dodd-frank either. i don't care where anybody is on the immigration issue. here's an 844-page bill that is one of the most complicated things we've ever seen. we have to rush through this? >> so you opened up another set of conversations. so i'm glad because i want you to come back. i think it's a mischaracterization to suggest we have been rushing towards doing something. in fact, quite the opposite. we keep doing not much of anything at all on the policy fronts. is there one piece of advice you have for boston families? >> no.

i mean they're going to miss the loved ones for the rest of their lives. but there's never going to be closure. hopefully they'll just pray. they're going to miss their loved ones terribly. hopefully the politicians will take some sort of accountability. >> you have to ask for help. you can't keep it inside. everybody suffers ptsd. not just people in battlefield. >> and you have been a voice keeping jim's legacy alive. >> we lost 6 to 12 firemen in waco. hopefully osha check the workplaces and not lie tohe wor fine when it's not. >> i love this. bob is going to stay around for more. up next, my letter of the week is addressed to all of those who

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will wonders never cease? this week our congress actually accomplished something. confronted with a problem facing the american people they rallied to the cause, found common ground and quickly enacted a policy solution. by 361 to 41 vote the house of representatives approved senate legislation to relieve travelers of flight delays they were experiencing due to the impact of sequester. yes, our congress will show up and show ut in response to the most physical and vocal victims of policy makes, which incidentally included their own member who is will be flying back home when the legislative session ends. but when no one is watching and

the victims are the million of americans who are unemployed, that's a different story. take a look at this photo by the national general reporter. this was the scene wednesday morning at a congressional hearing to figure out solutions to the problem of long-term unemployment. a single member of the committee. and where her colleagues should have been, empty seats. my all rights is to republicans and democrats, senators and members of the house who were not in that room. dear members of the joint economic committee. it's me, melissa. mind if i call y'all jec? i get it, a legislator's work is never done. days of hearings back and forth. the obligatory press conferences. you can't be everywhere at once. inevitably some balls will get dropped. you have to prioritize, right? immigration reform is imminent. there's a terrorist attack to be

responded to and you can't forget about the flight delays. yes, you are there when it matters. bhen i look at this photo and see the testimony about how to get long-term unemployed americans back to work give everen before a roomp of empty chairs that to you this crisis confronting our country simply doesn't matter and make no mistake, this is a crisis. not just for those who fall into chronic joblessness, but also for the u.s. economy. it's what the national employment law project has called the real cliff that threatens our economy. there are 4.8 million people who have been unemployed beyond the six months. people who have been out of work so long they just stopped looking. people's choz joblessness marks discrimination averse to hiring the long-term unemployed. who needs you to be sitting in that chair finding policy

solutions? they do. people who in the meantime have only had their dwindling savings fall even further and are relying on you to strengthen the social safety net programs that they rely on for their own survival. since flight delays have you all hot and bothered about the sequester, how about the sequester cuts that slashed unemployment insurance by 10%? rb last year talking about what you would do to restore the economy and create jobs, well, now is the time to do it. the absence of long-term unemployed people from the workforce means a smaller tax base, fewer people contributing to the economy and a loss of valuable capital from the labor market and stresses on the lives of the individuals, suicide, divorce, higher mortality rates, domestic violence and academic underperformance by the children. kudos to minnesota senator and

the three other democratic members of congress who finally showed up after they recognized the urgency of the issue because they came to the hearing to address it. together 16 of you who had better things to do, it is time to reorganize your priority list because if not voters will be more than happy to put someone else in those empty seats. sincerely, melissa. when you have diabetes... your doctor will say get smart about your weight. i tried weight loss plans... but their shakes aren't always made for people with diabetes. that's why there's glucerna hunger smart shakes. they have carb steady, with carbs that digest slowly to help minimize blood sugar spikes. and they have six grams of sugars. with fifteen grams of protein to help manage hunger... look who's getting smart about her weight. [ male announcer ] glucerna hunger smart. a smart way to help manage hunger and diabetes.

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the bill now this is the first of seven, yes, seven voting measures that north carolina lawmakers will decide on this year.

but voting rights advocates are fighting back, that includes a group of college students who silently protested during wednesday's house vote. joining me from d.c. to talk about the latest developments is the codirector of the advancement project. high, judith. >> hi, melissa. how are you? >> what the hey is going on in north carolina? what is happening right no? >> well, republicans took over the state legislature in 2010 with the help of a wealthy donor named art pope. they hadn't controlled it since 1870. since then they have taken over the governor's office. they have decided to take one of best election laws in the country and dismantle it piece by piece. they really want to make it harder. >> that's so important. the point is that north carolina is actually one of the states that was doing quite well, right? this sort of monitors the state

and this is one you would have put in your green column, right? like doing well. >> that's right. we're talking 65% turnout. this is part of the manipulation laws that make it harder for people in north carolina to vote. >> why now? >> the republicans waited until they could control the legislature to be able to do this. they're setting it up to 2016 to make it harder for people to turn out so they will have a total impact on the upcoming election. >> let me ask a naive question. if republicans want a majority, why do they want to keep people from voting? is it about these seven rules that make it partisan?

let's take one of them. one is taking away early voting weeks. 70% of african-americans vote early. they want to take away sunday voting. they said i think there are certain things we shouldn't do on sunday. and one of them is voting. we know blacks vote on sunday two times more likely than white voters in north carolina. >> so i am having this imaginary moment where we have a sky north carolina blue wrestling match between art hope and reverend william meyer. wouldn't that be great? explain this to me. i know reverend barber is on this. who is pushing back against this? >> so you have, you know, reverend barber from the naacp is really leading the way. getting other ministers to push

back against it. and then there's democracy north carolina. there's a number of organizations. but now because the legtdture, the senate has passed this we're going to see an escalation in efforts. we know this is all about making sure it's harder to vote for certain people who turned out in record numbers in north carolina. the republicans want to make sure they hold power in the state and that they control everything. we're not going to let that happen. we're going to keep our eyes on this as we always do in voter suppression. it's in the off years that this always happens. >> that's right. thank you. and coming up next, this is a two-hour show. we're only half way through. we have big news about news. why the biggest newspapers could be under new management and why ushds care.

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welcome back. i'm melissa harris-perry. eight daily newspapers are up for grabs in a fire sale after the company that owns them emerged from bankruptcy needing to dump the its most precious assets. the publications are the latest casualties of the recession and has debilitated the american newspaper industry over the last decade and a half. all of the papers owned by the tribune company, the chicago tribune, the los angeles time. the baltimore sun. the sun sental in sou florida. the morning call, the daily news. okay, listen. valued at $623 million but it can be yours if you have the highest bid. among the buyers who have that kind of pocket change lying around and are exploring the possibility of making investment

are billionaire brothers charles and david coke sound effects by dave. according to a story this week, with me is bob herbert, long time journalist. and now dr. linsor who is the managing editor of msnbc.com. kirk gladstone, most and managing editor of npr and sports editor of the nation. on that story, amy who joins us this story joins us from d.c. i want to start by reading the coke statement. we reached out to coke industries to enjoy us on the show. their statement is we are

constantly exploring opportunities in many industries and sectors and so it is natural our name would come up. we respect the independence of journalistic institutions referenced in the news stories but it's our long standing policy not to comment or deals or rumors of zeals we may or may not explore. so that's where the industry stands. but nubs aren't a very profitable investment. why would they want it? >> well, that's a really good question. they're in many ways diminished assets. you say they're not viable financial investments anymore. who are they viable to? it can happen on both sides of the aisle. >> tell us the story that you tell in "new york times." this is not a brand new thing. >> absolutely.

the cokes aren't looking at the next election. they're looking at a decades long quest to change the country. a few years ago at a seminar, they're having one this weekend, they laid out a strategy to get their voices heard. part was educating grass roots activists. i.e., maybe the tea party. then another part of the strategy was media. i have sources telling us the coke brothers were opening in for decades and how do they change that? how do they get their conservative voices heard? >> so i come out to the table here. when you say the rage of liberal bias, bob herbert snorted. what was that response about? >> it's silly that there's a liberal bias in media. there are liberal voices and conservative voices. more importantly, television newspapers and that sort of thing. the bias shifts to the right. it's a center right media in

this country. >> what about another possible of bias. but rather a profit driven one. a bias to viewers and readers and money. which may not be one direction or the other ideologically. >> it may not be. the profit mode is big into the newspaper business in the united states. so whenever people say there's a big conspiracy to provide this image or that narrative, it sunt necessarily one driven by ideology but rother the desire to make money. murdoch is a perfect example. he has all sorts of views on politics. some of them not considered classically conservative. when it first started it was transgressive. that was generated by the

simpsons and could not be blooeed. it isn't a straight conservatism for him. it's money. he doesn't like regulation. he could be really surprising. i think we have to look at the coke brothers as being in a different category f as being very different actists with a real agenda about the future for politics in the country. spotting someone with diabetes who is ailing and giving him a big glass of arsenic and saying this is going to cure whatever ails you. >> i thought he was going to say orange juice. >> right. >> no arsenic. it's not going to work. particularly for the big city newspaper needs credibility on issues that matter to people in cities. let's talk about what the issues are. it's public education, gun violence. the teachers union. these are the stories that shake the city of chicago. and the idea that people would have trust in a chicago tribune

owned by the coke brothers. >> so i want to bring you in on this point. the easy conspiracy theory is the coke brothers own it. let me be clear. i'm not reporting i own it. the conspiracy is i okay, they own it. they not only control content but reporting the decisions. what would it make if they own the properties? >> you look at their business interests. they have an oil conglomerate that makes 160 billion in revenues. i think it's more subtle. every newspaper subtly reflects the agenda of their owner. these may more so considering

what they said about wanting toe change the conversation. namely a political candidate who wouldn't want the endorsement in key battleground states. there's a headline from the los angeles times about the coke brothers saying he's now with the heart of gop power would they be able to print things like this if they believe that? if the coke brothers were at the heart of the l.a. times? >> that's a good question. that's the vanity aspect of owning a paper like this. look at it. >> paperless. >> look at a city like new orleans. many issues raised in chicago about gun violence and so forth. this is a paper now publishing three days a week?

there are a lot of people who want to buy the paper who want to buy it for public service reasons. to keep it going every day. but this paper is still making so much money that they won't sell it. so those are also other issues. thinking about a company that is profit driven like the coke brothers. they're not always in it for nothing. why shouldn't they want to make money here. why wouldn't they want to reshape the papers to make enormous amounts of money. even through a digital video route to alter the brand of the papers they're buying or going through advertising and crushing the papers in ways that will keep profits going.

so when we come back, more on this question?

newspapers in need of a few billionaires to throw them a lifeline have become more of a headline than a footnote in the ongoing story of the decline of the american newspaper industry. the takeover would be the latest and biggest by what has become a trend of privatety equity owners and traditional papers were already finding themselves on the old media versus new media. in 2009 that turned into landslide after the recession stopped advertising budgets that are the financial lifeline of newspapers. that program fell by 30%.

at least 105 newspapers folded and 10,000 newspaper jobs disappeared. that was just the first half of 2009. newspapers haven't faired much better since then. in 2012 print advertising revenues declined by $1.5 billion. an increase in online ad sales wasn't enough to make up for the print loss. the last five years an average of 15 snups have disappeared each year. football field's version of the wetlands in new orleans. so when face twd the prospect of no new newspapers, some newspapers owned by businessmen who moonlight may not sound like such a bad idea. that's only if you think ov billionaires coming to the rescue of newspapers in distress strictly as a business problem, not a solution. the understanding of newspapers is more in line with thomas jefferson, 1787, he wrote, quo,

were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government. i should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. jefferson's preference for papers may or may not tell us much, given he had a preference for slavery. an essential element in the great american democracy. are they over? >> yeah, they're over. >> newspapers are over. newspapers that you can hold in your hands and that sort of thing. the real issue is a free press. and the corporatization of the entire country, not just newspapers you can lose a free press pretty easily. i think the answer to a threat

to a free press is television. i think television is still the most powerful medium. i don't think it's used particularly well, although i think msnbc -- seriously -- this is a good example of how television can be used to great benefit. but i think if television got serious about covering the news of the day in a broad way, it would make up for the loss of newspapers. >> why would we assume that television would get serious? >> i'm not assuming that it would. but the difference is that television is such a powerful medium. it's more powerful platform lan some or others. i wish it would. what i think is going to happen is we're going to slowly move a

free press. >> the jefferson kwoelt was followed with no one can believe anything written in a newspaper. >> exactly. the situation changed his whole perspective on the idea of the press. >> and he said people who read newspapers were less informed than people who did. but at the end of his life he said we still need them for the agitation that they pro vid. >> maybe that's the great american love/hate with our newspapers. i want it to show up and then i'll carry my paper around with me. and then read my news on my ipad. >> that's why newspapers are dead. will rogers said if you want free press, you better buy one. he said this is a constant problem. we have to lose the idea that the billionaires are like

downtown abbey. they're coming in here and playing for keeps. they're coming in here with an agenda about changing policies in the country. we need a rebirth of independent media. we need a rebirth of independent journalism. an author with a new book about drone attacks. he went overseas and wrote about it. boot strap investigative journalism. >> that is very much against the ability to feed yourself and your family. >> that's real. >> there's a very serious consequence. if i am teaching journalism, what would i teach.

i go back to what bob said. it really doesn't matter whether or not he's buying a newspaper or jurnlists are working for any kind of online venture. what matters is =, independent journalism that will help readers and viewers understand the issues that they care deeply about. any place could be a fantastic place for journalism. when advertisers won't support a newspaper anymore or broadcast will support online newspapers or online journalism, that's where you really need to go. but your students would be learning the exact same thing. they would still learn why it's important to have an informed society. why we have a society based on checks and balances. >> but actual skills. right? the beast that is online is

you're feeding immediately. obviously, you're running msnbc.com right now. there's something different about the deep reporting, i'm thinking of the really incredible and devastating story about pitford reporting that came out in "the new york times" just yesterday. only a paper can do that, right? only a paper can send a reporter, get that deep and get that story. >> i disagree. i think you do it online and i think you can do it on television. you can do it more powerfully because you can do it with images. you have to have a return in order to pay the salaries and as you pointed out to make a living. but it can be done. if newspapers go by the board, which eventually i expect them to do, you are going to find another outlet. people are going to crave that information. >> that was the moment during arab spring. they had boots on the ground in the middle east.

you had people like donald rumsfeld who once tried to bomb reporters saying they're doing the best coverage. hillary clinton chided the media by saying they were able to make me look bad. they ha had boots on the ground. they had bureaus overseas and they were able to bring the story to america. >> yes. it's not just creativity. and will. >> and later not coveraging the persi persian gulf states. >> more on this as soon as we get back. i promise. but you're progressive, and they're them. yes. but they're here. yes. are you...? there? yes. no. are you them? i'm me. but those rates are for... them. so them are here. yes! you want to run through it again? no, i'm good. you got it? yes. rates for us and them -- now that's progressive. call or click today.

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thing about them falling apart. democratic with a little "d" for people, for women of color to get into the newsroom ls. >> you may be difficult to get in. but it will be difficult to make a living. still the mainstream have the most influence in this society. blacks and women are underrepresented. especially in the positions that matter, in the positions where decisions are made, when people determine what gets covered, how it gets presented and that sort of thing. >> as much as we talk about the overall decline in the process, there's more of a decline in the african-american press. >> that's where i come out of, actually. >> of course, you do. for those who don't know, the only municipality in the history of the united states to go from majority white to majority black

bhil having higher incomes and being better educated in the process. also one of the highest police brutalities in the united states, and an african-american press in that context was critical. we would go out and speak to families with complaints against the police instead of speaking to the police. it was about perspective. you talk about the economic crisis. but also the dislocation in the african-american community. the poverty. the mass incarceration also serve to weaken what has been known as the black community, and with that the black press. >> although, then you look at the msnbc.com properties and we have the grio.com. it isn't a locality but it's a version of the black press. it's a version of voice with a lower barrier to entry for many folks. >> any mainstream press that can have those kinds of vois and

people can move up. one of the things you were talking about allows minorities to be promoted me beyon urban coverage. to do national coverage, to cover the white house with a different kind of voice. it's important. you want that. you want women and minorities covering every asset of of our society. >> does it make a difference? >> i think it does. it was making me smile. people always ask why are there so many women at npr? when npr started it paid terribly. and a lot of those women got in on the ground floor. and it started in 1971. so it's pretty old.

some of the women are still there. and i think that it developed a tradition for that. well, actually, the weird thing is everybody else's salaries have gone down so much that we are good. but in answer to your larger question, it depends, i think. it depends on whether or not a box is being checked off and that minority or woman voice is somewhat suppressed or squished into that box so they are not describing themselveses in that environment. and also as we know very well, not every, you know, woman is going to bring interesting and particular stories or every black person care about particular issues that are in the community. so these are purely numbers.

you have to start somewhere. >> we do have certain numbers. thank you to bob and daphney and brooke gladstone. dave is going to hang out for more because next i am going to talk to dave about what he is so angry about. it's about the steubenville, ohio, case. try running four.ning a restaurant is hard, fortunately we've got ink. it gives us 5x the rewards on our internet, phone charges and cable, plus at office supply stores. rewards we put right back into our business. this is the only thing we've ever wanted to do and ink helps us do it. make your mark with ink from chase. ten hut! you up for the challenge suds-maker? i'm gonna need more than that to get through the rest of these dishes! i want more suds!

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contract extension the week before a grand jury will decide whether the coach, among others, failed to report the sexual assault of a female student by two of his teenage football players. also the national women's law center joined a law firm in the school district alleging school authorities pressured a young woman not to file charges against the school's star basketball player who sexually assaulted her in 2010. and wednesday at dartmouth, students protested over violence on campus and were arrested. those are a few of the stories popping up this week. it's enough to make us say, whoa, what is going on with us here? still with us, the sports editor who is pissed about this and joining us now, with the national womens sent enand editor of the website.

the sexual assault survivor and former unc student who is an organizer of the campaign, know your nine, created to educate students about their rights. you were on fire this week. your piece for the nation is entitled what the hell. >> and it's a quote of a rape counselor who i spoke to about the rehiring of the coach in steubenville. she's a very modest, quiet person. i said coach is getting a two-year contract extension. bam, she turned into sam jackson. she goes "what the hell." she was so angry. i could understand why because of the message it sends to the community. first of all. they couldn't wait for the grand jury to meet to find out if the coach was a felon? they couldn't do that. even if he is not, what we know in terms of what players said in terms of the coach thinking it's

a big joke. the fact that he was caught on camera saying to her, krour going to get it, and if it's not you it's going to be somebody you know. things like that make you think, okay, this is the person to mold the minds of these young children? yeah, absolutely. it makes me want to holler. >> dave, this kind of anger -- i think it's in part also baffling for me. i want to come to yous are ann fee. i think part of what is so stunning here and part of what david is saying about the question of criminal liability versus is message is this is about rape culture. this is saying this is okay. exexplain this. what is rape culture on college and high school campuses? >> it's ou we socialize that young men and women to thinking rape jokes and threats are okay and the small micro aggressions contribute to this culture where

it's not looked down upon to threaten women or to rape them. >> i think that is part of what is so shocking to me. the idea that the same belongs to us as sexual assault survivors. it doesn't belong to the boys and men who are the the ones assaulting us. >> apparently men just simply can't stop themselves from raping. men just can't control themselves. so it's up to women to prevent it. which by the way takes an incredibly dim view of men. if men have such poor impulse control, maybe they shouldn't be running the world. maybe we shouldn't give them the nuke lawyclear launch codes. it sends a message to young men too. if you do something like this people in power will have your back. they will support you. they will make this all go away.

not because you're a football star, but because people in your corner. >> you can't just have their back, right? we do have legal protections here. >> there's a law about this. this includes the sponls by schools to sexual harassment and sexual assault in particular. so they can't send those types of messages they have to take steps to address harassment. >> by law they can't. by culture they absolutely do. and we all do. it's not just athletic or clij campuses. this is a national and global problem. >> so annie, walk me through some of the cases that you all are working on. >> so, for example, when a sexual assault occurs on a college campus, schools are meant to send out a timely

warning. a lot of the warnings address female behavior in saying don't walk alone at night. make sure you are address protecting yourself. they look at women to prevent their own assaults. but in many of the cases, when the cases are adjudicated, the perpetrators are slapped on the wrist with a book report and the female students, mostly female, some male, are dropping out of school. in michigan the message it sends is you can engage in this behavior. you can be a repeat perpetrator and you won't be held accountable. >> it seems to be part of what's going on college campuses if you are assaulted by someone from off campus. if there was a predator it would be different. we don't think of the predator who is are students as predators. >> title nine has something to say about the response. the line isn't drawn just off campus versus on campus.

sometimes sexual assault may occur at a frat house off campus. the school still has a responsibility. they have a responsibility not in terms of what they do. they have to address the harassment, the online harassment, the in-person harassment that may follow a student who actually stands up. >> yeah, and let's go back to the question of rape culture. i say it's the 50 people, boys and girls who stood around and didn't do anything while it was happening in front of them. it's the normalization of violence against women. >> and the media coverage that la meanted the loss. >> particularly on cnn whose coverage was so shameful. the normalization of that is what people fight against. when people say, what is rape culture? i say it's our culture left to its own devices. it's our culture that we are not

intervening in to teach men not to rape. shoutout to zarlena maxwell for making that point. >> it also feels to me like, you know, the top issue we said when we call something terrorism we respond right away. as a sexual assault survivor, there are ways this rape culture creates an atmosphere of terror and what if we thought of it that way? would we respond? all of that when we get back. al hair removal can be costly. challenge that with olay facial hair removal duos for fine or coarse hair. first a pre-treatment balm then the effective cream.

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national epidemic. we kept coming back to title 9. it was coming at incompetences and willful violation of rights at worst. we realized a lot of sexual assault survivors didn't know they had any rights. and when coming forward they were basically silenced and had no legal tool or information to arm themselves with. >> oh, please, please. >> so a group of us from amherst, alexander broadsky at y yale and a few others are calling know your nine, which aims to educate all college students of they rights under title nine. this is a quick campaign. we'll do something more formal later, but just to get the message out there. >> part of what is so obscene,

this is at the moment when young women are up to 50%, sometimes over 50%, and you have campuses shrugging their shoulders saying, oh, genter problem is taken care off and the sweeping problem of rape. >> annie and fatima have done an incredible service for the office. most people when they hear title nine they think it's about sports when the law does not specifically mention sports. it's about civil rights in public institutions. the thing about civil rights that we know is you use them or lose them. if you are not aware of them and demand they be inforced, they will not be enforced. that's true for all oppressed groups in the history of the country. >> this is why i love this campaign that she and other students are launching. it will help educate students but will make up athem stand up

take notice. >> this has to stop before college. by the time they get to college. they are statistically likely to already be sexually active. it's too late. we have to teach kids about consent when we're teaching them sex education. which gets back to the fact that we have to teach them sex education. which is a different conversation. >> i'm so glad that you brought us there. our unwillingness to talk about the issues of sex and sex education leave young people so overwhelmingly vulnerable. >> left to their own devices unless we take it in hand and unless we honestly believe h -- unless we talk about the fact that women have sexual desires and can come to the table or bed or whatever surface you feel like willingly, enthusiastically. >> can i tell you a story? i have an 8-year-old daughter. she said to me, daddy t boys at my school are just the sexiest.

and i was like shocked. i said, what do you mean? she said, they treat us terribly. i said, oh, you mean sexist. she said, yeah. what does sexiest mean? but i was shock at my own lack of comfort in being able to speak to her about this. how do you raise a young person in our both simultaneously importanted out and repressed culture to avoid sexual assault. please tell me. >> we need to start. >> annie, you seem to have a response. let's go to you. >> yeah, i think we need to start in elementary school. there's safe touch programs. we need to start talking about gender in our relationship. if we're scared to talk about sex in our primary and secondary education system, by the time you get to college and there's

sexual assault rampant, which also happens in the earlier education years, people are scared to talk about it even more. it's silencing. i absolute agree. >> it feels like an important point that -- and dave brings this up. i have an edadolescent daughter. you don't want to make all boys the terrifying predtorial enemy. >> i think that part is key. i worry there will be all sorts of assumptions that are placed on boys and young men that really have no place. ands so this why i think schools can play an important role here, too. not only around sex ed, but in talking about how do you act in online and in-person space? how do you engage your students? what sort of positive interactions should you be having? >> and that's why allies, men as allies is so incredibly valuable in this conversation. because we frankly, i mean, you see it if steubenville. a lot of the people facilitating this culture are men. a lot of them are women.

a lot of them are men. we need to dispense the idea that boys will be boys, which is just code for rapests are gonna rape, right? >> part of the rape culture, right, if we're thinking of rape culture broadly is the idea that the thing that is sexy, the thing that is desirable that both men and women should desire and want is to be overpowered. and it's part of pushing back is consent culture is to suggest that consent is sexy. what would be sexier than having a partner, same sex, heterosexual, whatever, who is like, yes, i am down. let's be about it. and that's part of how we begin to push back. and thank you to annie in los angeles. not just for joining us today, but for all of your work. we have much more from annie on our website. she took the time to write for us. please go take the time to read from her. thank you for those today who hung ut with us for the whole show. and to fatima and chloe right

here in studio. have you ever heard of a therma fire? no, well our foot soldier invented it. our foot soldier of the week is going to talk to me live after the break. [ heart beating, monitor beeping ] woman: what do you mean, homeowners insurance doesn't cover floods? [ heart rate increases ] man: a few inches of water caused all this? [ heart rate increases ] woman #2: but i don't even live near the water. what you don't know about flood insurance may shock you -- including the fact that a preferred risk policy starts as low as $129 a year. for an agent, call the number that appears on your screen.

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our foot soldier this week is a young man we want to acknowledge for his determination to not be a statistic. as a young black man in chicago, he made what he calls a transition, and it happened very recently when he landed himself at the white house. earlier this week president obama hosted the third annual white house science fair. 100 student innovators from across the nation celebrated science technology, engineering, and math helping the president stay true to his 2009 promise of highlighting achievements in these areas. the same way that he would with an ncaa basketball championship. now, have you ever seen one of these? it's called a thermofyer. what is this thing you ask?

well, i have its creator and this week's foot soldier 19-year-old anthony hallman here from chicago to explain. how are you this morning, anthony? >> hi, melissa. how are you? >> pretty good. >> tell me about the thermofyer. what is it? >> it's a pacifier with a built in thermometer. this is the off and on button and it has a digital display of the temperature. when the light is off, that means nothing is wrong and it has a one minute reading. when the light starts glowing such as this color right here, the orange color, that means that the baby's temperature is too high and it's in case the baby might have a flu. >> anthony, as soon as you started talking about it, one of the floor guys here started cheering because he's a parent. now, you're a parent, too. is that part of where this inspiration came from for you? >> yes. the inspiration actually came from my daughter because she usually gets sick when the season changes, and she like --

she used to get sick like a whole lot, and i just like had to take her to the hospital actually without knowing like what was wrong with her. i usually thought she was hungry but i didn't have no clue knowing she was actually sick. >> so tell me about this, you say you made a transition, that you were in a different place in your life and then you had your daughter, and now you're in a place in your life where you end up hanging out with the president of the united states because you have created something like this. what created that transition? >> yes. well, first to start off, it was my daughter and the death of my father in 2010. and i was living a lifestyle with being interacting with gang-like activities and malicious activities that just wasn't me, and, you know, they usually say bad kids do bad things. i don't believe in that. i was a good kid doing bad things because i was exposed to those bad things and i didn't have anyone to guide me in the right direction, and it was when i came -- transferred from hyde

park to perspective leadership academy i found a family, i found a second home, and i found people who care for me. they taught me how to use those entrepreneurship skills to apply them to principles as well. >> so your school made the difference for you. >> yes. >> what was it like to meet the president? >> it was very exciting. i never pictured myself actually being in the white house and shaking the president's hand. i felt famous at the time. >> well, i got to tell you, part of what i love about what you've done here is you've created something useful, something that people really need. how did you go from idea to the thing that you're holding in your hand? >> i did it all through my teachers, through the entrepreneurship, my teacher, mist ann warshaw and jason

delgado and everyone at the nifty office that actually helped me because i gave up on this product. i gave up on it like a year after the competition when i didn't win the competition because i never saw myself actually producing a product such as this. i just wanted to do something to just get a grade and to get across. but then my teachers came back to me and said, you know, you can also -- you can actually create something out of this. you can change the environment and change the world with this one little product. you may think it's simple, this is a brilliant idea and this is great. this will make you a great innovator. all you got to do is have the determine did you and keep demonstrating perseverance. >> anthony, thank you for being a great father. thank you for being a great student. good luck at cornell university where you are headed off on full scholarship. thank you for being a role model and a foot soldier for all of us. >> thank you. >> and that is our show for today. thanks to you at home for watching. i'm going to see you tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. eastern.

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are there more suspects in the boston bombings? that's what one member of congress is suggesting. we'll get the very latest. plus, why are officials searching a landfill for evidence in the case? flooding fears on the rise. why there's new alarm today in the midwest as some rivers head for record highs. new revelations today from amanda knox just days before her book about being accused of murder and spending four years in an italian prison. hello. it's high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." an arrest in tupelo,