so please continue to use our facebook page. or tweet us @bashirlive. thanks for watching. chris matthews is next. stop the guillotine. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. there are people in this country, believe it or not, who believe the best way to get rich people to work harder is to give them tax benefits. the best way to get the poor to work harder is to cut their benefits. got it? give the carrot to the better off, give the stick to the worse off. and so in america today the guillotine is coming down on programs to get meals to the elderly. give a head start to the young who need it most. and as that guillotine comes down again and again, the well-off enjoy a government that looks out for them. in fact, races to look out for them. making sure that their flights

arrive on time. even as the poor worry about the next meal they know isn't coming at all. will the president be able to stop this way of government, or is he, his party and the republican, stuck in so much political mud they'll never get free? michael steele was chairman of the republican party, now an mns mns political analyst. bob shrum. president obama made clear the republicans in congress are the road block as he sees it to solving america's problems and he opened the door to an interesting way to lure them into cooperation. the phrase was, permission structure. i was taken with this. let's see if you are. let's listen. >> there are common sense solution to our problems right now. i cannot force republicans to embrace those common sense solutions. i can urge them to. i can put pressure on them. i can, you know, rally the american people around those, you know, those common sense

solutions. but ultimately they, themselves, are going to have to say, we want to do the right thing. and i think there are members, certainly, in the senate right now, and i suspect members in the house as well, who understand that deep down, but they're worried about their politics. it's tough. their base thinks that compromise with me is somehow a betrayal. they're worried about primaries. and i understand all that. and we're going to try to do everything we can to create a permission structure for them to be able to do what's going to be best for the country. >> so the question from all, a few good men, can the president tell the truth to the american people like he just did then and admit the simple fact he can't twist arms on capitol hill, can't defeat people in primaries? the only way a republican is going to lose a primary, as he says, is by talking to him. those are the facts. and then the question is, bob, what's a permission struck kmst? that phrase jumped out at me.

is there a way to get the republicans to the table and end this sequestration, this putting all the problems of the people, the american people, on to the poorest people? >> i doubt it, but i know what he means by permission structure. the permission structure he wants to create is one where he steps back. where maybe people in the senate negotiate some kind of compromise on sequestration. just as, for example, they've done on immigration. because the problem is, if he endorsed something mitt romney was for in 2012, the republicans in the house, especially, are likely to be against it. so the permission structure has to let the process move forward without having the president's fingerprints or face all over it. i think he's willing to do that. i think it succeeded at several points earlier this year. but on the sequestration, it's tough. what amazes me is the republicans, the party of national defense, the party that has always favored a strong defense, is willing to see defense take draconian cuts, is willing to see elderly people go

without meals on wheels to protect, for example, the loophole that lets hedge fund billionaires, it's called carried interest, pay only 13% on their taxes. there ought to be a way to compromise here. take up some of the ideas, for example, that romney offered in 2012, make them part of the mix. take some of what the democrats have offered and i think you can get to a deal. >> what's the deal from your side, michael? what would be your permission structure? >> i didn't understand exactly what the president was saying when he quoted that term, but in context, and understanding later in talking to folks, it really means giving the republicans the room they need to separate themselves from that part of the base that may be more exercised about working with the president. number one. i think, though, the permission structure kind of runs both ways. we see it on issues for gun roll for harry reid and for some senate democrats. i think you certainly see it on the tax question for a lot of republicans. i think the president may have something here that may work for

both sides. >> michael, hasn't he already given -- he said he's going to do chain cpi, he's going to cut medicare. he's made a lot of concessions. republicans have not matched him once. >> but that's not negotiating. you haven't gotten into -- >> he gave them what they -- >> no, he has not given us what he hasn'ted. you say, i put this in the budget. that's not the final deal. his base as you've seen on chain cp ir cpi, the reaction was as volatile as the reaction was from our base. >> you're saying he can't deliver? >> i'm not saying he can't deliver. he may be on to something -- >> what we have now is a growing, growing, creeking of the federal government. the president outlined the across the board spending cuts are causing the country and his own frustration congress took action only when flight delays were causing inconvenience to flying passengers. let's listen. >> it slowed our growth. it's resulting in people being thrown out of work. and it's hurting folks all across the country.

and the fact that congress responded to the short-term problem of flight delays by giving us the option of shifting money that's designed to repair and improve airplanes over the long term, to fix the short-term problem, well that's not a solution. >> then abc followed up there rather quickly and asked, why did you sign it, why did you go along with saving the airplanes, the faa? here he is answering that tough question. >> the alternative, of course, is either to go ahead and impose a whole bunch of delays on passengers now, which also does not fix the problem, or the third alternative is to actually fix the problem by coming up with a broader, larger deal. but, you know, jonathan, you've seemed to suggest that somehow

these folks over there have no responsibilities and that my job is to somehow get them to behave. that's their job. >> well, that's what probably drives the republicans on the hill crazy, right, michael? it's my job as daddy, if you will, or mommy, to make them behave, because the president under our constitution doesn't control -- okay. >> clinton had to do it. reagan had to do it. >> he signed a republican -- >> why are sow so hellbent on giving this president a pass? >> i'm just not giving you one. the fact is, michael, you tried to slip one past me. >> i'm not slipping one past you. >> bill clinton because he was running for re-election had to sign on to a conservative welfare reform bill. he wouldn't have written himself right before the '96 election. it was a republican bill, first of all. this president is trying to get republicans to meet him in the middle. >> which he vetoed three times and finally came to the table on it. >> my point. >> this president needs to do

less excuse making and whining and then leading. that's what he needs to do here. >> congress controls the pursestrings under our constitution. it's controlled by the tea party republicans. boehner is sort of like their chief waiter up there. he sort of serves the tea party. he can't do it. >> why do we need democrats in congress at all? get rid of all the democrats then you can blame the entire party for every ill in the country. >> no, just the majority. >> yeah. >> just the majority. the problem we have now, bob, and this is the problem of people who ticket split. if you're going to vote for the president of one party and vote for the congress of one party, this is what you're going to come up against. if you tend to like the conservatives in the government because you vote that way in the house races who say we're not going to do this, not going to raise taxes, we're only going to cut poor people's programs. then you vote for a president who has a totally different point of view, you get log jams like this. nothing is happening except this guillotine coming down on their necks of everybody who's poor right now. >> well, i think that's true, and look, the democrats actually

won the vote for the house by 1.6 million votes. they lost the house because of the gerrymandering. i was going to agree earlier with michael this is a two-way street. >> come on, bob. >> i was going to agree earlier, i was going to agree earlier with michael this is a two-way street. >> back it up, bob. move on. move on. >> no new yo, no, the democratse vote for the house. michael, if you allocated electoral votes in pennsylvania according to congressional districts, mitt romney would have gotten most of them after the president carried the state. i want to get to chris' bigger point, because you keep trying to say somehow or other the president ought to be blamed here. what has to be blamed here is the republican house that will not make a deal. ronald reagan made a deal on tax reform. lyndon johnson made a deal on medicare. those days are gone. any deal the president tries to make gets s opposed in the hous. the only way we've gotten anything passed this year, anything significant, is for john boehner to break the rule that a bill can't come to the

floor without a majority of the majority. we can get out of sequestration. there are enough republican votes in the house combined with almost every democrat to pass a deal. same thing is true on immigration reform. but i don't think we're going to get any of those things if you have to have a situation where republicans as a party in the house have to all agree on this. >> let's tgo to the bottom line. numbers, numbers, numbers. primarily, certainly gerrymandering plays a part. primarily because the democratic party sweeps the big cities about 90-10. all the votes, the 40% they don't need don't get counted in how we get elected to congress. the republicans win 60-40 in their districts. that's why you have this disproportionate representation. let's go to this question of immigration. here i think the president is playing for the win. i don't think he's playing politic politics here. i don't think he's going to have a problem in the next election. what do you think? >> this is the sweet spot that

he realizes. this is the permission that republi republicans are going to get on immigration, whether it's mccain and rubio in the senate. they're going to bring something to the house that -- >> again, back to the house. >> the house will pass whatever comes out of the senate on -- >> really? >> i think they will. >> you buy that, bob? you think this conservative house with those members -- >> i hope michael's right. i seldom say that. i'm very doubtful you're going to get a lot of these republicans in the house, these tea party republicans, who are getting huge blowback from their districts to agree to a path for citizenship. i also think the debate especially in the house from folks like representative steve king is going to be incredibly rancid and is going to alienate hispanics. i wish i could share michael's belief. i wish i could share the president's belief that immigration reform is going to get done. i'm kind of doubtful. >> i'm rooting for marco rubio over ted cruz. if that's going to be the fight among cuban-americans, particularly. if that's going to be the fight, i know who i'm with. by the way, i think the

president was very skillful today. i don't think he has an answer on the grand deal looking for this permission structure. i think he has one golden egg he wants to have, whatever the right term is for the second term. and i think it's because the republicans want this thing off their backs. >> as much as he does. >> they want it gone. i don't think he's playing politics. this is one time obama is going for the product. just like he did with health care. >> on immigration in the house, i put my hope on paul ryan. >> you agree we're going to have an immigration bill but bob is a little bit suspect. >> no, no, i'm suspect because i think the paul ryan wants to do this, karl rove wants to thdo this, smart republicans want to do this. a lot of the tea party members in the house who are now in control of john boehner in a lot of ways done want to do it. he's going have to make a tough decision. >> 50 plus 1. >> the people concerned about illegal immigration getting anything done is if they agree to a comprehensive deal. people will continue to come into the country, continue to be hired illegally, continue to be exploited. it will never stop unless they agree to do it. that means comprehensive deal.

anyway, thank you, michael. shrummy, you as well. i think the problem is the way the votes are counted. democrats are doing too damn well in the big cities. >> democrats controlled the congress before, chris. >> i know. it takes a lot more than 51% of the population for them to carry it because they waste the votes in the big cities. coming up -- you know all this, bob. coming up, the war now crowd is whooping it up on the right. president obama today says he needs more proof on the use of chemical weapons in syria before making war decisions. it's nice to have a president who's willing to get the facts straight about wmd before invading. poll numbers showing collapsing approval ratings for senators who voted against background checks in the senate. we may get another shot at that bill. i'm asking the question, do 40 senators want to be on the wrong side of a 90% issue? massachusetts democrats are voting today and expected to nominate ed markey to replace john kerry in the senate. we'll see what happens tonight. plus, highlights of last

night's debate, wow, between mark sanford and elizabeth colbert-busch in south carolina. finally, governor tom corbett of pennsylvania is sinking in the polls right now in part because the state's job creation has dropped dramatically. one of his explanations, too many people in pennsylvania. let me say this right, too many pennsylvanians on drugs. that's going to get him elected. this is "hardball." the place for politics. angie's list is essential. i automatically go there. at angie's list, you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare written by people just like you. if you want to save yourself time and avoid a hassle,

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shaq. and, you know, deliver a hard foul. i think a lot of young people out there who, you know, are, you know, gay or lesbian, who are struggling with these issues, to see a role model like that who's unafraid, i think it's a great thing. >> i think this is important because the president phoned collins yesterday before the press conference to tell him personally how proud he is of him. by the way, think of all the young teenage kids now, boys and girls for whom this is going to be very important to hear. and we'll be right back. [ agent smith ] i've found software that intrigues me. it appears it's an agent of good. ge has wired their medical hardware with innovative software to be in many places at the same time. using data to connect patients to software, to nurses to the right people and machines. ♪

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what we now have is evidence that chemical weapons have been used inside of syria, but we don't know how they were used, when they were used, who used them. we don't have a chain of custody that establishes what exactly happened. if we end up rushing to judgment without hard, effective

evidence, then we can find ourselves in a position where we can't mobilize the international community to support what we do. >> welcome back to "hardball." late today the "washington post" reports, in fact, just did, the white house was preparing to send lethal weaponry to the syrian opposition. earlier today president obama seemed to be trying to slow the rush to war by some on the right. almost in lockstep, by the way, the hawks and the neocons have argued we must take some kind of military action in syria or else risk looking squeamish to the iranians. it's a dangerous line of thinking, i think, especially because there are so few good options available in sere wra. create a no-fly zone. that could be costy and potentially a risky operation. arm the rebels? we may be doing that now. who exactly are the rebels? "the new york times" reported over the weekend, for example, the overwhelming strength of the fighting force is made up of the most extreme groups. some of whom have ties to al qae qaeda. do we give them weapons? what option does that leave us in the united states? what does that end up being?

a treaty, perhaps? bashar al assad in russia? both those outcomes seem unlikely. the war drums are out there. can they be silenced by action from the president? richard hoss, author of a brand new book "foreign policy begins at home." and robin wright is a scholar at the united states institute of peace which i just drove by yesterday. a beautiful building. look at what the "washington post" is reporting lay this afternoon. "president obama is preparing to send lethal weaponry to the syrian opposition and taken steps to assert more aggressive u.s. leadership among allies and partners seeking the ouster of bashar al assad. according to senior administrationofficial official" robin righwright, your thoughts that. it could be rifles, could be grenades. who knows. >> i suspect at this point there's very small quantity or small type of weaponry. a quarter century after we armed the mujahadin, we are still

buying back parts of stinger missiles and there's a real concern about we you arm any faction, how can you control and prevent those arms from going to other militias, being sold to other people, other parties, and extremist groups in syria? >> charlie wilson's war became osama bin laden's war. >> the idea of a no-fly zone is also full of problems. look at when we were in iraq, we were there in a no-fly zone for over five years and took a ten-year war to get saddam hussein out of power. the idea a no-fly zone is going to be decisive in any rapid way in changing the dynamics on the ground, adding pressure on president bashar al a sassad is vulnerable. there's no quick fix. that's the problem. >> richard hoss. we'll talk about yrk your book in a moment. every morning we get up, bill kristol and john mccain have a war they want us to start. i'm making it light and

sarcastic because i am sarcastic about this. they always want us to go in. once we go in, it's never clear how the hell we ever get out. we're just in. your thoughts? >> robin wright said, chris, there's no quick fix to the syrian problem. i'm not even sure there's a slow fix. i don't think there's necessarily a fix at all. that said, we can sit here for a few minutes and talk about the downsides of doing this and that. the downsides are all too real. not doing anything is also costly, particularly what we said. >> let's try diplomacy then. you've got the expertise there. put that cap on. is there any diplomatic solution that would end this war and turn it over to some sort of -- the president's still talking today about a political transition whereby the assad regime gives up, allows a transfer of authority, and somehow saves itseits skin, i suppose, or else why would they be in that process? is that feasible? >> no.

>> okay. is there a russian escape route for them? >> look, at some point it's possible things get bad enough the russians may change their policy, mr. assad may decide adasha is in his future. the rest of the alowites are going to stay and fight. if they didn't, all the people on the sunni side which afree on one thing, the need to get rid of this government. this disagree on everything else. we're going to see a prolonged civil war among these various factions. even though mr. assad is a big part of the problem, getting rid of him should not be confused with the solution. >> a new poll shows the idea of this war is very unpopular. does the united states have a responsibility in seyriasyria? 62% say no. 62%, no response. not a tricky question. to we have any responsibility to think about going into war? on fox news this week, bill krist kristol, being the hawk he is, dismissed the importance of

public opinion. he said the president had to do something in syria, no matter what the people think. let's watch. >> this is not a president who wants to start another war. that's the way he sees it. i think it's totally irresponsible for an american president to have that. no one wants to start wars, but you got to do what you got to do. doesn't matter if the public is at -- what's happening in syria is a very serious matter. >> the trouble with that thinking, i respect the fact he does think, i just disagree with him. the fact is, bill out there and others are saying it doesn't matter what the follows are. usually the polls are with the bugle callers. the polls generally say there's two to war. it's the end of the war after a couple years they, that was a mistake. this time 2/3 of the people are saying, don't even think about it. your thoughts, robin? how can you fight a war when 2/3 say we don't want to get involved? >> president obama spent his first term getting us out of two wars and doesn't want to spend his second term getting us into one war and possibly two in iran

looms large down the road as well. he understands american public o opini opinion. we're very tired. people have economic priorities. there's a real sense we have a domestic agenda that needs to be taken care of first. and the fact is that the seron opposition doesn't speak with one voice. and the danger is down the road iraq looks even messier than -- syria looks even messier than iraq did in terms of trying to rae create a nation. that's where we get into this problem with, you pointed out of we know how to get in but don't know how to get out. >> richard, tell me about your theory. your book is about how domestic policy really does influence ability to have foreign policy. >> let me say one thing, though, about syria, first, chris. i think there is something of an in between option. i think the president is moving in the right direction. i think some selective arming of the syrian opposition makes sense. we can try diplomacy. i'd even be in favor of limited cruise missile strikes. i'm trying to find, if you will, something of a goldilocks approach. i don't think we have unlimited

stakes in sere wra. i don't think we ought to do unlimited things. i don't think we can simply walk away and say we have no interest or stake in its outcome. what we have to do is take a step back and look at this on the full chess board. think about the rest of the region and iran. we have tremendous stakes in asia. as i argue in my new book, we have to put the bulk of our resources of rebuilding the bases of america power here at home or we won't be a world power even if we want to be several years down the road. >> richard haass, can't wait to read the book. robin wright. up next, here's a novel way to spin your state's dramatic drop in job creation. tom corbett says there are too many on drugs. that's going to go over well. this is "hardball." the place for politics. uh, i'm in a timeout because apparently

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ha! back to "hardball." now to the sideshow. jon stewart weighed in on what got congress moving last week to pass a bill ending the filibuster, actually sequester-related layoffs that were causing airport delays. >> why, perchance, that part of sequester? >> a few hours after voting, members left capitol hill and headed to the airport for a week-long recess. >> oh, right. because it's the problem from the sequester that affects them. they don't care about meals on wheels unless it's rolling down an aisle. ladies and gentlemen, i take you to legislation theater. >> open on the house floor. what time does your plane take off? 8:00. 8:00? you better leave now. the lines are very long. why? you remember when we indiscriminately cut federal funding across the board because

we thought that would force us to find a resolution to our budget impasse? that's right. yeah, yeah, yeah. all right. [ bleep ]. get me a pen. hold on. done. now let's go home. >> he is the best. i'd say he's on to something there. next, it's not exactly smooth sailing for republican governor tom corbett of pennsylvania these days. we told you yesterday about the quinnipiac poll up there showing corbett trailing all three potential 2014 democratic challengers by at least nine points. well, since corbett took office back in 2011, the state has slid from 77th in job creation across the country, all the way down to 49th in job creation. the unemployment rate in pennsylvania is now higher than the national average. in an interview just yesterday, governor corbett suggested a few reasons for this including the need for better job training programs. but here's one of his reasons this stuck out. >> there are many employers that say, you know, we're looking for people, but we can't find

anybody that has passed a drug test. that's a concern for me. >> so that's the governor of pennsylvania saying that the unemployment rate in pennsylvania is high because a lot of pennsylvanians are high. what an amazing statement by a public official. next, house republicans are still trying to repeal it. despite almost 40 unsuccessful attempts. but as it stands now, the dust has settled and obama care is, of course, the law of the land. we all know that, right? turn to a new survey from the kaiser family foundation. 12% of the respondents thought congress had repealed obama care. 7% said the supreme court overturned it. another 23% just weren't sure. overall, 42% of those polled, almost half, were not aware obama care is actually on the books. finally, i'm going to be talking later about last night's great south carolina congressional debate between mark sanford and elizabeth colbert-busch. apparently sanford had unfinished business after deb e debating, if you will, this cardboard cutout of nancy

pelosi, house minority leader, on a street corner last week. >> nancy pelosi is running hundreds of thousands of dollars in ads. this is an important point. with all due respect to nancy pelosi, whose name i will raise again, these increasing taxes that pelosi and friends oftentimes are trying to level on them, nancy pelosi's pac, whose voice will be carried? >> is nancy pelosi running in south carolina? sanford mentioned pelosi over a half dozen times in that debate. we'll get back to that later. up next, the gun vote backlash. senators are paying for it in the polling out there. that's ahead. you're watching "hardball." the place for politics. at's 3 m, 2 newborns. it's no wonder i'm getting gray. but kate -- still looks like...kate. with nice'n easy, all they see is you -- in one simple step, nice'n easy with colorblend technology, gives expert highlights and lowlights. for color that's perfectly true to you.

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i'm mary thompson with your cnbc market wrap. stocks end the month with gains.

dow up 21. s&p at a new record adding 3. nasdaq climbing 21. home prices rose more than expected in february, up more than 1% over january's levels. and up 9% compared to a year ago. an index of consumer confidence rose strongly in april thanks to optimism about job and wages. gas prices fell about 3% this month. the biggest one-month price deline in a decade. that's it from cnbc. first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." president obama didn't discuss gun safety today at his press conference but the issue isn't going away, of course. the compromise bill on background checks with senators joe manchin and pat toomey came up with and the president strongly backed failed to get 60 votes in the president. the president and many democrats blame the nra. in the "washington examiner" the

other day, tim carney said blame was misplaced in that case. instead he argues the president should point a finger at the tea party senators like ted cruz, mark lee from utah and rand paul. "the obama account is wrong in part because it portrays the nra as calling all the shots with gop on guns but it seems it was cruz, lee and paul who drew the line and then the nra came in to hold the line. whoever is to blame, a d couple new polls show senators who opposed a popular measure might be facing political pushback. here are interesting polls looking at the approval/disapproval ratings before and after the gun vote. according to a new ppp poll, nevada senator dean heller lost two points overall. senator mark begich is down a net of six points. his colleague in alaska lisa murkowski lost 16 points. senator rob portman of ohio lost a net of 18 points. according to the quinnipiac poll, senator pat toomey of pennsylvania who was the partner in the deal, picked up a net seven points since the vote.

tim carney is with me right now. also sam stein is politics editor of "the huffington post." i thought your analysis was great in the column. it showed the enormous power of the hardliner, the tough guys, led by cruz, led by mike lee, and, of course, rand paul to basically draw the line. you cannot support expanded background checks. not at the 30-clip rounds. 30-round clips. not at the assault weapons. you can't vote for that, and that's what -- >> and it works. it's an inside/outside game. there are other groups who do this in washington, too. here you have the most conservative senators. they stand up. they take a stand. in this case, it's public letter saying we're not going to allow a vote on it. and then when senators and congressmen go back to their districts, guess what? they're hearing, wait, why aren't you standing like rand paul? why aren't you standing like ted cruz? >> they don't like that. >> it's a way of mobilizing -- >> what happened in the republican cloakroom, in the

meetings, lunches they had together, according to your column, a lot of the republicans who voted for the bill voted against background checks but wish they hadn't. >> they were getting upset because ted cruz brought constituent pressure on them. >> let's go back to this question here of the not gun iss issue. we're going to be talking about this as long as we live. on the liberal or centrist side, gun safety side, whatever you want to call it, most people for gun safety are also for a better environment. they're also for jobs, if you will. they're also against wars. they tend to have a pointed view on a lot of different issues. gun guys like my brother, one of my brothers, that's their issue. that's the voting issue. how do you beat people for whom gun rights are the only issue? >> well, that's one of the reasons you should take these polling numbers with a bit of salt. or grain of salt, i guess. because the intensity issue is what really matters. and so if you see jeff flake, for instance, people say well this makes me less likely to vote for him in the next election which happens to be 5 1/2 years from now. you have to ask a question, how

likely are you to vote? gun enthusiasts, second amendment right enthusiasts, are much more likely to show up at the polls than gun kprol advocates. >> i think that's true. by the way, there may be a pushback. here's something that happened. there was a dramatic moment just this afternoon at a town hall meeting of kelly ayotte in new hampshire. she voted against the manchin/toomey bill. today she was confronted by a relative, a daughter of one of the victims up in sandy hook. erica lost her mother, the principal of the school. listen to this change. >> you had mentioned that day of the verdict, owners of gun stores, that the expanded background checks would pass. i'm wondering why the burden of my mother being gunned down in the halls of her elementary school isn't as important as that. why isn't that something that can be supported? >> erica, certainly let me just

say that i'm obviously so sorry, and as everyone here, no matter what our views are, for what you have been through. and i think that ultimately when we look at what happened in sandy hook, i understand that's what drove this whole discussion. all of us want to make sure that that doesn't happen again. >> wonder what she meant by that. >> well, i mean -- >> what did senator ayotte mean when she said, i hope it doesn't happen again, and there's a daughter of one of the prime victims. >> what's your response, chris, when somebody says, oh, there was a bombing and muslims did it and a lawmaker who doesn't want to, you know, crack down on civil liberties or go to war in the muslim world, says i want to make sure this doesn't happen again. just because there's a victim who wants a direct response -- >> the reason in this case was, i know there are a lot of factors up there, mental, emotional disturbance to put it lightly on the case of the shooter. also the fact that one of the reasons that we might have dangerous situations is guns

getting in the hands of people like that. obviously here is a case of a guy who shot his mother in the face and got the guns from her. but the more common case would be someone like that trying to get a gun. here was the people of this country in a reasonable response to this crime saying, why don't we make it harder for people with mental and emotional problems to get guns, better backgroun backgroun ground checks? >> i think the senator is wrong in one sense, she said this debate was just spurred by sandy hook. yes, that was the galvanizing moment. what happened prior to then was aurora and prior to that was the shooting of good-babrielle giff. because background check system at this juncture only covers about 6 0% of sales. i thought what was -- the gun control community's response to sandy hook, if they wanted to say, yes, let's prevent another sandy hook, we could have gone after the assault weapon ban, the magazine clips. they wanted to go after background checks which are

basically -- >> do you know why they did that? >> it's a more effective policy. >> for them. once you pass the constitutional test, it's okay under the second amendment to demand a background check. why wouldn't it be acceptable under the second amendment interpretation of the law to make sure all sales, not just as gun stores, be covered? it was just a reasonably consistent bill. >> correct. the line that is drawn by the conservatives on the hill is is this restraining the right of law-abiding citizens? is it regulating their gun ownership? by saying, oh, well, you can't give it to your neighbor -- >> they covered that. >> they covered it on some -- already you had liberals says, oh, this is a gaping loophole in toomey/manchin. >> i sometimes can see both sides. i think on this one i'm clearly -- >> shocking. we call it gun control. gun safety is a euphemism --

>> one nice thing when you come to me is not to mock me. sam stein. i never know where you're coming from. politically. i like your column today. up next, primary day in massachusetts. the race to replace john kerry. in south carolina, elizabeth colbert-busch up against mark sanford in a good debate if you like good theater in politics. we all do. stay tuned for a couple minutes and catch the whiz bang down there. this is "hardball." the place for politics. come here, boy. ♪

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yesterday we showed you how republicans are trying to tear hillary clinton down before she even announces if she does that she'll run for president. here's why. she's the runaway favorite now for 2016. leading the democratic field by more than 50 points in the late ef poll from fairly dickinson university. by contrast, the republican field is muddled with marco rubio getting 18%. chris christie in second at 16%. jeb bush whose own mother doesn't want him to run is up at 14%. rick santorum, pretty far down at 9%. pretty strong showing for rick. we'll be right back. [ lorenzo ] i'm lorenzo. i work for 47 different companies. well, technically i work for one.

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we're back. with two big political stories today. massachusetts democrats are choosing a nominee to fill john kerry's senate seat. and u.s. congressman ed markey looks like the big favorite tonight. the other big story is the special house election in marky favorite. the other is between elizabeth colbert bush and mark sanford. the election is one week from today, next tuesday, in fact. last night the two of them met in their first and only debate. but to no one's surprise, it didn't take long for colbert bush to bring up the thing sanford is best known for, his extramarital affair. >> when we talk about fiscal spending and we talk about protecting the taxpayers, it doesn't mean you take that money we saved and leave the country for a personal purpose. >> everybody is a little bit -- >> she went there, governor sanford. >> i couldn't hear what she said.

>> hogan, this is your home territory politically. first, sanford had to know this kind of attack was coming. let's show his retort. it was pretty good. listen to how he parities the question about his affair. >> you voted for the defensive mayor jack and to impeach president clinton for an extramarital affair. would you vote those ways again? >> well, i -- i would reverse the question to you. and i would say this. do you think that president clinton should be condemned for the rest of his life based on a mistake that he made in his life? >> hogan, that got a bit of applause there. i guess people are fair minded. of course, he voted to impeach president clinton and take him basically from office, removing his political career and his public career from existence, pretty much. i think that was a pretty strong

sanction. and now for him to come back and say he should win this house race somehow as some sort of, what, reward? what's his argument there? >> yeah. i didn't get the retort. i understand, look, you have to be able to separate a vote for somebody and forgiveness over an indiscretion. mark sanford clearly, his personal problems had been played out in the national press, here in the local press, of course. we forgive mark sanford not because mark sanford wants us to. because if you're a christian christ calls you to forgive and you should forgive mark sanford. that's fine. that doesn't mean i want him serving in congress and representing me nationally. those two things are separate. i think the point of bill clinton was that's fine. i've forgiven bill clinton, too. he was my governor before he was your president. fact of the matter is i still didn't want him being president after that incident. still, mark is having a lot of problems down here. there's no big shift. i want this duly noted. i don't think there's a big shift in the electorate. i think it's just an ob stengs, saying, look, we know mark sanford. we've worked with mark sanford.

we've seen him in action. i just don't necessarily know i want to put my name or neck on the line for a guy who -- who really did a poor job of shepherding his personal life or his professional life as governor. >> you know, it's a strange thing, ron, trying to figure out how the voters go on these things. you had vitter down in virginia involved with professional sex workers. both in d.c. and in louisiana down there. voters like him. out in nevada, which it's legal to have those kind of businesses out there, sex workers, and more john -- without making a valid judgment, he gets picked out of politics. what are the rules as bill maher would say, what are the rules these days? >> i don't know about david vitter. it seems to me mark sanford's issue here has always been one of character. the perception on some people's part, i think, a well founded one, he's a little unstable and flaky. watch the campaign he's been running with this debating the cardboard cutout of nancy

pelosi. i thought he did a little better last night, actually, than with the cardboard cutout. but nancy pelosi is pretty tough. the phone number business, releasing his phone number. all of that kind of stuff. but, you know, as colbert bush alluded to, she didn't actually talk about the affair, what she mentioned was he left the governor's office without telling anybody where he was going, took taxpayer money and took off for argentina with his girlfriend. now, he alluded to that last night in the debate as something that had happened to him. now, a meteor crashes through your roof. that's something that happens to you. this is an entirely different category. >> you mean mistakes were made? >> the voters of south carolina are left to choose between the delusional narcissist on the one hand and a democrat on the other. it could be toss-up. >> we'll be right back to talk about massachusetts up there. distant territory for you to talk about. hogan will be back with us.

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welcome back to "hardball." ron reagan and hogan gidley. according to a recent ppp poll, congressman markey has a 14 point lead over congressman lynch. ed markey is a great candidate. we'll see how that one works out. i want to go back to south carolina. it's far more vintage material, ron reagan. what other rules as bill maher would say, what are the rules?

we've got spencer involved with a hooker if you will. a prostitute. you've got weiner doing something out there on the social media if you want to call it that in his case. mcgreevey involved with a marriage that didn't quite make since. involved with the whole confusion over his orientation. john edward involved with the filmographer. vitter involved with prostitutes in both cities. enzen involved with the wife of one of his campaign workers. why do we forgive these guys and not others? >> we're prone to forgiving people who have just committed a sexual indiscretion. purely and simply. visited a prostitute. had an affair. whatever it might be. but when you take taxpayers' money and you live -- imagine for a moment bill clinton, for instance, didn't just have an affair with monica lewinsky,

just disappeared, and we found out later he'd taken taxpayers' money and turned up in uraguay. >> ron reagan, thank you. ingenious exoneration. didn't leave the place. hogan gidley. "politics nation" with al sharpton starts right now. thanks, chris. thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's leading with calling out the gop today. president obama ripped republicans in congress for the hypocrisy and selfness on automatic budget cuts that are hurting millions of americans. at a news conference today, the president unmasked the phony gop argument. >> a lot of members of congress were suggesting that somehow the sequester was a victory for them and this wouldn't hurt the economy. what we now know is that what i warned earlier, what jay stood