accused terrorist. we are back with developing news of three additional arrests in connection with the boston marathon bombing. the media is at this moment assembled outside the federal courthouse in boston awaiting details from proceedings inside. three college friends of dzhokhar tsarnaev have just been charged. two with conspiracy to obstruct justice. another for making false statements. the friends allegedly removing items from dzhokhar's dorm room and then denying it. the detailed complaint unsealed just a short time ago alleges, quote, knowingly destroying, concealing and covering up objects belonging to dzhokhar tsarnaev, namely a backpack containing fireworks and a laptop computer, with the intent

to impede, obstruct and influence the criminal investigation of the marathon bombings. the court released this photo of the contents of the backpack's contents, including fireworks emptied of their powder. the two primary suspects, die yas kadyrbayev and azamat are seen in this photo with dzhokhar in times square. according to chilling details in the complaint, on the day that the bombing suspects' photos were released to the public, quote, kadyrbayev then texted tsarnaev and told him that he looked like the suspect on television. tsarnaev's return text contained, "lol," and other things kadyrbayev interpreted as jokes. such as you better not text me. and come to my room and take whatever you want. further reading reveals a footnote from one of the other pals turned suspects.

azamat tazhayakov also informed the fbi agents that while eating a meal with dzhokhar and kadyrbayev, approximately one month prior to the marathon bombing, dzhokhar explained to them that he knew how to make a bomb. joining us now from washington is former secret service agent dan bonji nrk o and in boston nbc news national investigative correspondent michael isikoff. michael, these are serious charges alleging serious acts of obstruction. why would these three be doing any of this unless there was good reason for them to hide evidence? >> reporter: it's totally bizarre, martin. this is already -- there's so many wild aspects to this whole boston marathon investigation and in many respects, it's even

gotten wilder and more inexplicable today. i should point out that there's nothing in the criminal complaint that suggests that any of these three had prior knowledge of the bombing, were accomplices in the bombing, or were co-conspirators in any direct way in the decision to blow up the boston marathon bombing. which -- to commit that bombing. which in many respects makes the details in this complaint even more inexplicable. we have these two kazakh students who are friends of tsarnaev since freshmen year. they're all sophomores. they recognize the photo when they see it broadcast by the fbi that night. now, they don't know for sure. they think it looks like him. then they have the -- the lead one, dias, seems to have this text communication with tsarnaev. he says take from my apartment whatever you want.

that sounds -- could sound like code. he said it was a joke. but the fact is, they then go to the apartment. the two kazakh students. and the third one who's charged today, the american. and they -- again, let in by the roommate. they see the backpack with fireworks. they take it. because, they say, they did not want their friend, dzhokhar, to get into trouble. and then they take the laptop as well. a laptop computer saying they didn't want it to look like they were just stealing the backpack. and the roommate is there. so they didn't want the roommate to think they're just stealing one thing, so they take the laptop as well. they then go back to their apartment in new bedford, and then there's a little bit of a discrepancy in the count of those two kazakh students. the first one, the one who actually seems to have been the ring leader here, the one who texted with tsarnaev and decided to take the material, says that

it is that night that they take the backpack and put it in a trash bag and put it in a dumpster outside their apartment. the other one tells a somewhat different story. says that it's the next morning at 6:00 a.m., after tsarnaev has been publicly identified by name by the fbi, that they -- that the first one, dias, decides to throw away the backpack into the dumpster. somewhat significant, i say, because if it was that night, it's they suspect he's the boston marathon bomber or at least the wanted boston marathon bomber. by the next morning, they know for sure he's the guy the fbi is looking for. it is at that point, then, the fbi gets on to them relatively quickly. they're detained on these immigration violations. they're questioned repeatedly.

and the third one lies to the fbi. he initially denies going to the apartment. then says he went to the apartment, but the door was locked. the roommate wouldn't let them in. it isn't until the fourth interview that he finally confesses, according to this complaint, and agrees that he participated in this group that went to the apartment to remove this evidence. that's why he's facing somewhat a higher penalties here. eight years in federal prison for -- maximum penalty for lying in the course of a federal terrorism investigation. the other two charged with conspiracy to obstruct justice. maximum of five years. i think the totality, though, suggests that the fbi, while clearly concerned about the actions of these three individuals, don't believe that they had prior knowledge of the bombing plot because if they did, they wouldn't be facing penalties relatively small for a major terrorism investigation.

>> mike, just so i understand it, their explanation for dumping this material from the tsarnaev dorm room is what? what is their justification for taking material from a student that they now believe may well have been involved in that bombing and disposing of it? >> reporter: look, martin, all i can tell you is what the fbi says they said. which is they they wanted -- they didn't want him to get into trouble. that they were helping to protect a friend. now, as i said when we started out, this all seems inexplicable given the enormity of what dzhokhar tsarnaev was charged with doing. setting off this -- these bombs that killed three people, maimed others, wounded over 120 and basically terrorized the city of boston. it seems bizarre and, as i said, inexplicable that they would think more about helping their

friend avoid getting into trouble than the safety and welfare of the people of boston. but that's what they said. and that's why they're charged with what they're charged with. >> mike, before i go to dan bonjino, the criminal complaint says that the tsarnaev brothers spent -- i'm quoting the complaint -- a great deal of time socializing with these two. even meeting with other members of their family. there's that footnote then. >> reporter: yes. >> that he told them he knew how to make a bomb. there's even a reference in here to them finding valeline, and one of them saying he believed tsarnaev has used the vaseline, quote, to make bombs. >> reporter: right. couple of things leap out there. first, the fact that socialized and met members of the family, obviously raises the question of

whether or not they met tamerlan who everybody believes was the ring leader here. was the instigator of the plot. the one who went over to russia. the one who had the youtube account with the radical jihadi videos. so, i mean, certainly the fbi would be drilling down on that. what did they know about tamerlan, how much did they meet him? you also picked up on that fascinating reference in the footnote in the complaint that they had discussions in which dzhokhar had volunteered just a month before the boston marathon bombing that he knew how to make a bomb. now, the context of that conversation is something you clearly would want to know. how did it come up and does it suggest that the boston marathon plot was already under way at that point? the fact is, we don't know at this point. a lot clearly depends on what these two actually know and knew. and whether they know more than what's in the complaint. look, these complaints are crafted solely for the purpose

of bringing the charges in federal court. it's not a complete dump by the fbi. the fbi, you almost have to believe, knows a lot more, has spent countless hours with these -- with these three individuals. and gotten a lot more out of them than is outlined in the complaint. >> i should say, mike, that these three individuals are at this moment in the mockly courthouse right now in boston. dan borjino, what would prompt these individuals to lie to federal investigators in the first instance if they were not involved in hiding some kind of evidence? why would an individual interviewed by the fbi tell untruths and then eventually tell the truth? >> well, fear. you know, martin, having done these investigations and been on the other side of the interview table, there's a lot of power in having someone behind a desk under those interview lights, knowing that they're facing federal jail time and having their lawyer likely tell them,

you know, the same. you know, it's not like the movies. michael just pointed something out, too, as well, that i think is very important in this. the legal -- there's a lot of legal jargon that gets thrown around. a criminal complaint is only a document that lays out the bare bones, basic facts to establish probable cause that that arrest was, in fact, legal. it doesn't lay out everything the fbi knows. i say that because as a former investigator, i'm not a journalist. you know, i can speculate on this. i think there may be more here. i don't think that they just were trying to, you know, help out a friend. again, that's just -- i don't have any evidence of that at this point. it just seems to me -- >> what do you mean, dan? what do you mean? >> well, they had to understand the gravity of this crime. it was impossible to miss. i mean, we have a 24-hour news cycle. the imagery was out there. clearly from the text they had some idea that there was something going on. if they were friends with this individual and involved in that network and it seems that there was some kind of a cultural divide here, so they lived in a

relatively insulated network, tamerlan said it himself, he didn't have any american friends, don't you find it a little hard to believe that they just all of a sudden figured out that these guys may have had something to do with this at the last minute? it seems quite odd. i think they may have some more information. again, i'm speculating at this point. but the complaint is just the bare bones document. and more information may come out in the future. >> the complaint alone is pretty disturbing. mike, we got the photo of the fireworks emptied of powder found in the backpack. have they found the laptop? have they found it? do they know where it is? >> reporter: that is an excellent question, martin. because if you read the complaint closely, it states that they took the laptop from the apartment that night. from tsarnaev's room that night. took it back to the apartment. but then it never says what became of it. it does say that the fbi

recovered the backpack with the fireworks. it is -- it is absent on any statement about what happened to the laptop. so it's a question i'm trying to get clarified tonight. i don't know if the fbi will answer or not. we know that they were looking for the laptop in that new bedford landfill. but we don't know whether they found it or not. >> yeah, indeed. dan, the glib attitude reflected in the complaint is rather shocking. texting, "you look like the suspect." and "lol." describing them starting to freak out, realizing dzhokhar is the bomber. then states he took a two-hour nap. a two-hour sleep. i mean, what kind of individuals are these? >> yeah. there's a degree of psychopathology here i think you can't ignore any longer. you know, you're correct. a two-hour nap. then this glib nature. you would think the first instinct of someone like this, a normal, functioning, socially

adept individual would be to call 911. and say, hey, this guy looks like the guy in the pictures. he's a friend of mine. but their first instinct was to go and collect the laptop and the evidence and dispose of it? and by the way, martin, a very amateurish way to put it, in a dumpster or a garbage can outside of your house. i mean, only keystone cops wouldn't figure that one out. i guarantee you that at some point they're going to get their hands on this laptop. i would be stunned. if that story is, in fact, true, i would be stunned if that laptop does not show up. and i bet there's some communications on there between these individuals that don't work in any of their favor. >> i'm sure you're right. let's bring in jami floyd, who's a former prosecutor. jai jaime, we are seeing the exterior of the courthouse, moakley courthouse in boston. what is going on in that courthouse right now with regard to these three individuals? >> i imagine there's some degree of negotiation going on. the judge is trying to marshal what is an extraordinary case,

martin. i agree with what michael said earlier. this is really a remarkable story. i've covered these kinds of cases going all the way back to the oklahoma city bombing in the 1990s, and i can't remember a case with more unusual twists and turns than this one. and we're still in early days of this case. so i would agree with both your other guests, michael and mr. bonjino that i think we still may have more information yet to come from these three young men. they may know more than what is in the bare bones of this affidavit which forms the basis of the criminal complaint. if you read the affidavit of the special agent who conducted these interviews, he does talk about recovery of the backpack. no mention at all of the laptop. he talks about his interview with the three young men. but no indication as to their motives. yes, he mentions that they were shocked when they realized that this was their friend.

he talks about they're freaking out, and that's in quotes. but it's very, very curious, as you suggest, martin, the reaction. taking a two-hour nap, even though they are freaking out. i mean, it's all incongruous. that's what's happening inside the four walls of that courthouse. everyone coming to terms with this extraordinary day before it's put on the record. and then they come to the microphones for that press conference. >> right. jami floyd, michael isikoff and dan borgino, please stay with us. as i said and jami just mentioned, we may be able to bring live a press conference if there is one, but we'll be right back after the break. we've all had those moments.

when you lost the thing you can't believe you lost. when what you just bought, just broke. or when you have a little trouble a long way from home... as an american express cardmember you can expect some help. but what you might not expect, is you can get all this with a prepaid card. spends like cash. feels like membership.

i've always kept my eye on her... but with so much health care noise, i didn't always watch out for myself. with unitedhealthcare, i get personalized information and rewards for addressing my health risks. but she's still going to give me a heart attack. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare.

welcome back. we're following breaking news in boston awaiting a possible news

conference outside the joseph moakley courthouse where three suspects have been charged in connection with the tsarnaev investigation. we're joined by michael isikoff in boston, dan borgino in washington and here in new york, jane floyd. mike, what kind of relationship did these boys have, these kazakh students have with the tsarnaev brothers? because i note from the criminal complaint, they're described as spending a great deal of time with each other and, indeed, getting to know other members of the broader family. >> reporter: right. that clearly was something left out in the complaint. a lot of times socializing, met with members of the family. i did talk to a friend of these two and tsarnaev earlier today, a fellow student. who said that dias, the first

kazakh student, and the one who decided to take the material from the -- >> that's kadyrbayev. dias kadyrbayev. >> reporter: thank you. we'll get it straight by later today. >> of course. >> reporter: comes from a wealthy family. he had three -- i was told he had wrecked three beamers, bmws, and then bought a fourth. so clearly he comes from some money. and i was also told and i think others have reported, he did have this license plate with the word "terrorist1" on it. this was not taken seriously by his fellow students. obviously in this context it raises a lot of questions. what his friend said is it was viewed as something of a joke or innocent.

obviously not very funny at the moment. but that was the license plate or the vanity plate that he had. he comes from kazakhstan. we don't know a lot more about his family, where the wealth comes from, where he got the money to buy bmws. but i think that's a trail a lot of people are going to want to be pursuing. >> right. and we can see a trail of reporters following the fbi special agent rick delor yay. let's bring in nicolas burns. professor at harvard and columnist with the global post. good afternoon, ambassador. >> good afternoon. >> you know, sir, that kazakhstan is 70% muslim. that's a nation that has a population that is 70% islamic. and we know these young men visited dagestan and traced their origins back to chechnya.

do you see any kind of connection there? >> oh, it's impossible to tell right now. we know so little about these young men, it's just been announced today who they are. but it's -- it is possible to know in the future that the united states government and obviously the russian government, the kazakh government, we've been working together for 20 years on counterterrorism with them, on foreign policy issues. we have a good relationship with the kazakhs. slightly more difficult relationship with the russian government. but one of the aspects of this as you look to try to figure out how to prevent such incidents in the future is obviously to -- it's a double-edged sword with the russians. can we work with them to head off these types of attacks in the future? but can we not emulate the tactics of the russian and kazakh governments because they operate differently than we do. they're much more aauthoritarian than we are. >> yet, ambassador, much has been made about the fbi and cia handling of intelligence from the russians. them then not being given any further information by the russians.

how difficult is that diplomatic relationship? because we know it's not perfect on ordinary matters. but i imagine with regard to terrorism, it's even more terse. >> you know, actually, we've had -- president putin was the first world leader, one of the first to call president bush after 9/11. we have worked very well with the russians in the past. in this instance, and i'm just reading the press as you are, it doesn't seem that the russian government gave enough information to the united states for our government to be able to do its job in the case of the tsarnaev brothers. so obviously you want a relationship where the other government's going to level with you and give you enough information that you can act on it. so i wouldn't fault the u.s. government here from what i -- from what i can divine, i think the u.s. government did what it had to do. the only thing it could do was to follow up this lead. but we're a democratic society. and so we have to have actual evidence to be able to take people in and arrest them and indict them. and that's where we're different from the russian and kazakh governments.

and we can't as president obama has been saying, there should be no trade-off between our security and our democracy. >> indeed. thank you, ambassador. let's go back to michael isikoff. michael, i understand you have some new information. >> reporter: right, martin. we've just gotten a report on that initial court appearance for these three men that just took place before judge baller at the moakley courthouse in boston. the two kazakh students, kadyrbayev and tazhayakov made a separate appearance. they were advised of the charges against them. told they were charged with willfully conspireing to obstruct a federal terrorism investigation, faced a maximum penalty of five years in prison, three years monitoring, and their lawyers indicated their clients would submit to voluntary detention. judge baller set a date of may 14th for their initial court hearing. they were remanded to custody of the u.s. marshals. then there was a separate

hearing for the third defendant, robel phillipos, who's charged with lying to federal investigators. same drill took place, though he's charged -- he faces a maximum penalty of eight years. and at one point, the judge while reading mr. phillipos his rights admonished him saying, and i quote, i suggest you pay attention to me rather than looking down. a hearing was set for phillipos for 2:00 on monday. so that's -- those are the initial court appearances for these three men. as is custom, you don't learn a lot in these hearings. we could learn more in the upcoming hearings. but right now the next event here won't be until that initial court hearing at 2:00 on monday for phillipos. >> what kind of representation will they have had in court, michael? >> reporter: well, they had lawyers. at least the -- the two kazakh students had lawyers.

in fact, we had known they had lawyers from the beginning when they were initially detained. i am not clear on who phillipos is being represented by at this point. whether it's the federal defender's office like tsarnaev is or a private lawyer. but in order for this appearance, initial court hearing to take place, they would have to have -- be represented by counsel. >> jami floyd, would you expect in circumstances like this that all the individuals would have been remanded into custody? >> well, i said earlier i thought there might be some negotiation about that. but, of course, i overlooked the fact that two are here on student visas and are in violation of those visas. so that's an automatic remand to custody. michael had indicated earlier that he expected at least two to be held in custody, continue to be held in custody. the third young man is an american. there might have been some room for negotiation on that, but clearly, especially as he looked down when the judge was speaking to him, he will be held in

custody as well. i have some intelligence on counsel. i'm told that all three men have retained private counsel. >> all three have. what's the significance, jami, of a judge admonishing an individual at their first hearing? that doesn't sound very impressive, does it? >> well, this is a simple arraignment. michael probably has better intelligence on whether this judge will continue to be the judge of record in federal court. often the case will be removed to a different judge for the trial itself. but you're not starting out on a good foot if you're not looking at the judge, the bench, when you're making your first appearance in court. both in terms of your relationship with the larger public and in the courtroom itself. so it's not -- it's not the way to start out, you're making a good point. >> michael, i could see you nodding in agreement with jami. >> reporter: yes. i am in agreement. i should point out judge baller is the same judge who handled the initial court appearance for

tsarnaev itself in the hospital room. she went to the hospital room and conducted that initial court appearance. of course, took some heat over it. we had the criticism from mike rogers, chairman of the intelligence committee, that she had interfered with -- she said -- smiled, the court does not comment. >> indeed. don borgino, we've seen this photograph presented as evidence. it's a chilling one which features these fireworks drained of -- of powder. it's chilling to think, is it not, that this is what killed those three people at the end of the boston marathon, that little 8-year-old boy? >> it's frightening, isn't it, martin, when this kind of disease of wanting to impose violence, horrific violence on other people, that you'll turn a pleasurable -- >> i've got to stop here.

we're going to a press conference. >> look forward to litigating that in court. thank you very much. >> sir? >> we need your name. >> what is your name, sir? >> who do you represent? >> well, we came to that just as he was finished. as you could hear, reporters were actually asking for his name. i'm not at this stage able to tell you who that individual represents. just that he went to the microphones outside the moakley courthouse and spoke. as you can see in front of a group of journalists. i was speaking -- as you can see now, he's being chased by reporters, presumably trying to ascertain what his name is and which one of the three potential suspects he currently represents. dan borgino, we were talking just now about that chilling piece of evidence presented by -- in court, that photograph of the fireworks drained of powder. sorry. here comes another.

here's another. so we believe another attorney is at the mike. >> harlan pro us the p-r-o-t-a-s-s. i recommend azamat . >> dias kadyrbayev denies the charges. as we've said from the very beginning, he assisted the fbi in this investigation. he is just as shocked and horrified by the violence in boston that took place as the rest of the community is. he did not know that this individual was involved in the bombing. his first inkling came much later. the government allegations as far as that he saw a photo and recognized him immediately, we dispute. and we'll be looking forward to proving our case in court. mr. kadyrbayev and his family are very sorry for what happened here in boston. and he did not have anything to do with it.

>> to be clear, he did not take the knapp sack and bring it to the dump and dump the fireworks in the knapsack? >> we are not saying that. mr. kadyrbayev told the fbi about that. he did not know those items were involved in a bombing or of any interest in a bombing or any evidential value. that's all we have to say on that. but we are the ones, mr. dias kadyrbayev, cooperated all law enforcement without the benefit of counsel to assist them in their investigation of this horrible tragedy. >> did they know tsarnaev knew how to make bombs? did he also know the gun powder or powder that was in the fireworks and vaseline could also be used for bomb making as the affidavit states? >> no. i can only stick with what's happened. i won't speculate. >> what about the text from

dzhokhar tsarnaev according to the complaint saying go into my room and take whatever you want. is that some kind of a signal to the client? >> there was no signal. i think it means the plain english meaning. >> which is what, sir? >> are you concerned these guys won't get a fair trial considering all that's going on in the country? >> no. we believe that the citizens of boston can fairly and accurately listen to the rules of law and give someone a fair trial, at least that's at this moment in time. that's all i have to say. >> why did your client re-enter the country when he was no longer a student and no longer had a valid student visa? >> our contention -- he was a student. he was a soft more engineering major at the university of massachusetts. he did not attend classes regularly is the allegation later in this semester. so he's been in this country legally. it's a technical violation of a student visa for not regularly attending classes. >> can you explain the confusion between what you say they were helping the government and the government says they were obstructing justice? can you explain that confusion?

>> no. >> sir, can you ask you -- >> yes. i have a very brief statement for you. my name is harlan protass. p-r-o-t-a-s-s. my client, azamat tazhayakov feels horrible and was shocked to hear someone he knew at the university of massachusetts dartmouth was involved with the boston marathon bombing just like many other individuals interviewed on campus. he has cooperated fully with the authorities and looks forward to the truth coming out in this case. i'd like to say also that he considers it an honor to be able to study in the united states. and that he feels for the people of boston who have suffered as a result of the marathon bombing. thank you. >> when he recognize e ed dzhokhar -- >> you were just listening to

counsel for dias kadyrbayev and azamat tar zi kov. both saying those individuals were innocent, had nothing whatsoever to do with the boston bombing at the end of the marathon. they have been assisting the investigators, even though the criminal complaint itself is that they were obstructing the investigation. and, indeed, played some kind of role in preventing the investigation. mike, what's your reaction to what you just heard? >> reporter: well, i think having heard the lawyers speak, i think that discrepancy i referred to earlier may become more significant. the discrepancy in the timeline of when they disposed of the backpack and threw it in the trash. because if you read the complaint closely, the two kazakh students tell somewhat different stories.

the first one, dias kadyrbayev, says they went to the apartment the night that the fbi had broadcast the photos. they think it looks like tsarnaev. they take the material, the backpack, and the laptop. they go back to their new bedford apartment and they dispose of it that night. they throw it -- he throws it in the trash that night. he says they all three collectively decided to throw it in the trash, although he's the one that did so. if you look at the statement from the other kazakh student, tazhayakov, he says that the decision to dispose of the backpack came the next morning at 6:00 a.m. of course, the significance of that is, at that point dzhokhar tsarnaev has been publicly identified by name by the fbi. so that makes it harder to

reconcile with what the lawyer for the first kazakh student is saying, which is that he never intended to dispose of any evidence relevant to the boston marathon bombing. it makes it a much harder case. so which of those two stories, whether the decision to throw away the backpack and the actual disposal of the backpack came that night or the next morning may make a big difference in this case. >> jami floyd, would that inconsistency be deliberately laid out in the complaint? >> yeah, yeah. well, no. no, it's not -- it should be. it's not. and i have two reactions to what we've just heard. first of all, i agree with michael entirely that this inconsistency in their statements, and you really have to read very closely to pick it up. it's not in any of the generalized reporting that i've seen. could lead to a real need to sever their cases. which you never see in court.

they're not going to sever their cases. it's a waste of resources. the judges always deny it. then you proceed on two separate and inconsistent theories of the defense, really, if it all comes down to those different fact patterns, one claiming we tossed the backpack the night before we really knew it was our friend and the other claiming, well, no, we really tossed it the next day when we, in fact, knew it was our friend and really that's the prosecution's theory of the case. so it's a real conflict if you have these two different fact patterns. but, martin, i want to just quickly touch -- i know you have time issues. but -- >> no, no, no. you have plenty of time. you keep going. >> this issue of defense attorneys coming to the microphone. now, they have to do that, don't they? because now we start to actually put some meat on the bones of what these boys were thinking. we've now been speculating for hours, really, about what these boys were thinking, what could their moral compass be, what would they be doing, helping this young man or these two

young men after the fact of this horrific crime? and these defense attorneys really have no choice but to come to the microphone and answer some questions. if not all. about their clients, their case. at the same time, it's terribly dangerous to start to lay your case out this early in the course of the proceedings. so this is what happens in our modern day system of justice. and you heard one of the -- the reporters say, can your clients get a fair trial? it's a very valid question. can they, indeed? >> dan borgino, back to you. we now know that dias kadyrbayev was an engineering student, a sophomore. and we've heard his counsel say that he was very proud to be studying in the united states. and he has a deep sense of regret over what happened. but we still have a situation here of an individual entering the dorm room of a potential

bombing suspect and removing a laptop, potentially, allegedly, and a backpack containing emptied fireworks. >> right. yeah. you know, martin, in a 24-hour news cycle we tend to get very granular with the details. look at this from just an umbrella, view, common sense perspective. no one's saying at least from what i'm hearing in the complaint document that these discarded firework packaging was just left out in the open. in that case, maub it makes sense. if you walk in your house and see a leftover firework, maybe you don't know why it's there, you throw it in the garbage. that's not what was the case. it was in a backpack from what we're seeing. one, why would you look in there? why would you think that was suspicious? why would you throw out the backpack? skdly, even if these folk were as innocent as their defense attorney is saying, which he has to say, that's standard defense attorney wonkery, really, when you think about it it is, why would you throw out a perfectly good laptop? it's common sense. as a federal investigator, if you had no reason to believe

there wasn't some evidence, you weren't covering tracks for your friend, you weren't fearful you would be implicated which could be a reason, why did you throw out the laptop? it doesn't make any sense. it just defies common sense which all leads to motive, presentation of probable cause and establishment as jami and michael have said an ongoing case and maybe further information in documents. >> joining me now, nbc producer jamie overguard who was in the overflow at the courthouse during today's proceedings. jamie, what was that like? >> martin, hi. two very brief appearances by the three suspects. dias cakadyrbayev, azamat tazhayakov were read charges.

both charges indicated they could pay for their lawyer. lawyers for the government, martin, declared both men a flight risk and said both men were in violation of their student visas. raising, of course, questions about -- about immigration and where that will go, martin. a hearing for them was set for may 14th. and robel phillipos, the third suspect, appeared before the judge shortly after. and -- and the hearing was set for monday. phillip phillipos, according to federal lawyers, faces more jail time than the other two men. lawyers for the government said phillipos faces or could face up to eight years in jail. while the other two men, lawyers for the government said could face up to five years in jail. >> now, phillipos, as i understand it, was chastised by the judge for not paying sufficient attention. is that right? >> yes. one of the more colorful moments of the events in court today, martin.

she was -- she was telling phillipos that he has the right to a lawyer. and -- and then at one point she stopped and she said, and i quote for you, she said, martin -- >> keep going, jamie. i'm listening. find it in your notebook. >> she said, "i suggest you pay attention to me rather than looking down." a sort of severe admonishment, a moment that forced some laughter and kind of quick breath among the press corps in the overflow room. >> now, these are 19 and 20-year-old kids, really. did they display any kind of emotion as they stood before the judge? >> good question. no. very serene. very serene. in fact, they said little, but were asked by the -- by judge baller whether they could afford lawyers. and that was the opportunity for each of the men to speak.

and all of them said yes. robel phillipos said, um, yes. that was about it. otherwise they serenely stood there. they were dressed like any young man in his 20s might be dressed. jeans, some of them. sweaters. robel phillipos had a v-neck t-shirt. they looked like -- they looked like young college age men. >> which, of course, is what they are. jamie novogrod, thank you. do stay with us. we'll have much more ahead. on, diarrhea, gas, bloating? yes! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues... with three strains of good bacteria. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'. >> announcer: introducing the redesigned jitterbug plus, our smartest, easiest

cell phone yet. >> when i heard about the jitterbug, i went online and ordered one for my mom. she loves it. she takes it everywhere. thanks to greatcall, now my mom has a cell phone she actually enjoys using. >> hi, grandma! >> hi, sweetie! >> announcer: the jitterbug plus-- the large numbers and the yes/no buttons make it easy to use, the bright screen is easy to see, while the improved speaker makes conversations loud and clear, and with the longest-lasting battery on the market, you won't have to worry about running out of power. coverage is powered by one of the nation's largest, most dependable wireless networks, and phone plans start at just $14.99 per month. for mother's day, get $20 off and a free car charger. the jitterbug plus is available nationwide. to locate a store near you, visit greatcall.com. greatcall-- people you can count on. [ male announcer ] you know that guy who sells those remote control helicopters at the mall.

buy'em or don't. whatever man. either way, he gets to fly helicopters all day. i'm talking da vinci style flying machines! he's dating kayla, the lotion girl. able bodied athleticism. here's his buddy marco, who's got the hot water for his velveeta shells & cheese. achieve your dreams. liquid gold. eat like that guy you know.

would absolutely not have taken a zip line in the jungle. i'm really glad that girl stayed at home. vo: expedia helps 30 million travelers a month find what they're looking for. one traveler at a time. expedia. find yours. we're just learning new details about a court proceeding in boston in which three suspects were charged with obstructing justice in connection to the tsarnaev investigation. we're joined by michael isikoff in boston, dan borgino in

washington. here in new york, jami floyd. joining us, too, here in the studio is democratic congressman charles rangel of new york. good afternoon, sir. it has been a remarkable three weeks, has it not, with this case? >> it has been. it has been. >> what was your reaction to these proceedings today and these three students, two of them from kazakhstan, all pleading innocent to the charge of obstructing justice? >> whenever anybody is arrested i go back to many, many year ago when i was a federal prosecutor. and, martin, you really don't know how badly people don't want to go to jail. the first thing is, when innocent people are grabbed and taken into detention and then to court, innocent people are screaming like hell. could you imagine if you were just trying to help a friend as one of your business mates and the fbi is dragging you to jail? you would be demanding -- it

would be all over tv. the second thing is this. when these kids understand that whatever put them up to protecting this guy after clearly they knew what they were involved in, when they find out they're facing five or eight years in jail, the fbi is going to tell them that we don't care anything at all about you. it's very possible you can continue your studies. all we want to know is who put you up to this and what was your reasoning. because we're concerned with the safety of all americans and, believe me, after a few weeks in jail, we will then find out for the first time what the story is. because none of this, even what they're saying, is inconsistent with what each other are saying. clearly you know they're not telling the truth. >> as i say, that's an assumption and speculation

you're making. >> no. they're telling two different stories. >> well, there's an inconsisten inconsistency, of course. their counsel has said they are telling the truth. >> forget counsel. they'd go to jail if they said their defendant -- their clients are guilty. >> right. >> all i'm saying is both of the -- all these stories are inconsistent. so one is true and one is not. >> indeed. michael, were you taken aback as i was by each of these individuals who are, after all, 19 and 20-year-old men, saying that they can personally afford their own legal defense in this case? >> reporter: well, not if you remember what i said earlier about the -- about the first one who had the three -- who according to his friend had wrecked three bmws and then bought a fourth one. so that clearly suggests that at least one of them had consider amount of money at his disposal. we also know they -- the two kazakh students did have representation from the beginning on the immigration

violations. we don't know a lot about their background right now but we do know at least two of them had some access to some wealth. >> mike, what was -- what is the nature of their immigration violation? what did they do that breached the visa status? >> reporter: well, you know, it's very easy to find a visa violation if federal authorities want to. apparently, and it is not spelled out in the fbi complaint and the immigration charges are not public. >> right. >> reporter: but i believe the lawyer has made a reference to a violation of student visa, not attending classes. so there on a student visa and some question about how -- whether they were doing what they were supposed to do, attending classes. at least that's what the lawyer said. we don't have that confirmed from the government. i think we've got to be a little cautious about that at least for the moment. >> absolutely. jami floyd, is that why these

individuals were immediately remanded, because of this visa violation, whatever it was? >> yeah. my understanding is that the initial remand into custody, so they've been in custody over a week, the two who were on the charges of conspiracy to destroy evidence, was on the visa violation. and now these charges, these more serious charges, in fact, have been added. i also understand that the visa violation was for failure to attend classes regularly, which as michael suggests, you can very easily violate a student visa. and that would be enough. but, again, we do have to be careful until we have all the facts. >> congressman, there was some text message communication between dzhokhar tsarnaev and the two -- one of the kazakhstan students. this phrase was used by dzhokhar tsarnaev. you can go to my room and take whatever you want. now, he, i'm assuming, would allege that that's a kind of

jocular conversation or type of thing to say. but that's somewhat bizarre when the individuals go to the room, remind a laptop and rock sack that contains fire works that have been emptied of their powder. >> it doesn't make any sense. that's why i -- i just don't believe that their story is telling the truth. as one of your -- your guests has pointed out, to take a good laptop and to throw it in a dumpster in front of your house along with a backpack, no. you know, normally you would think that they're kids and it's childlike behaviobehavior. all coming from the same country, knowing, talking with each other, there is a story here. it's my experience that facing jail brings out the truth. and we will know a lot more tomorrow. >> i'm sure we will. congressman, there have been complaints about the fbi's handling of this case. there's been suggestions of

intelligence failures. what's your view of what actually has happened here? >> you know, with every criticism that's made after the incident, after the president has praised the behavior of law enforcement, it doesn't mean that we don't have oversight. that's not to say that there was something that they should have done that they did not do, but it is to say that they have to learn from whatever they didn't do that they wish they had done. >> i'm thinking specifically of tamerlan tsarnaev's trip to t dagestan for six months last year having already triggered concerns and the russian authorities informing the american authorities about this individual being potentially becoming radicalized many some way. was that not an intelligence failure? >> it sounds to me like a perfect inquiry that should have been followed up. the fact that people are critical that the russians did not give us sufficient

information, does not explain why we didn't ask for it, demand it and pursue it further. no, i -- i suspect that after the overall investigation is done, i hope it's not the congress that -- that gets involved in this, because of the fact it may get involved in some political implications, but i think all of america including the fbi should want to know what reasons were given when some foreign government puts you -- believing this person is a potential threat. i can't understand why we didn't pursue it. >> michael isikoff, final question to you. where do we now stand in relation to the proceedings involving these three individuals? >> reporter: well, i think as was mentioned before, the -- there's a court hearing scheduled on the third one,

robel phillipos, for monday at 2:00 p.m. the other two, the kazakh students, have a hearing scheduled for may 14th, i believe. in a couple of weeks. so we may learn more by then. of course, we still have the ongoing proceedings relating to dzhokhar tsarnaev who is the accused bomber here. and a lot more to learn about what took place there and particularly what the fbi has learned about whether or not he had accomplices, training, encouragement to do the bombing itself. >> mike, as always, i'm grateful to you for guiding us through this complex story and this breaking news story today. michael isikoff, dan borgino, jami floyd and, of course, democratic congressman charles rangel, thank you all. we'll be right back. for seeing your business in a whole new way. for seeing what cash is coming in and going out... so you can understand every angle of your cash flow-

last week, this month, and even next year. for seeing your business's cash flow like never before, introducing cash flow insight powered by pnc cfo. a suite of online tools that lets you turn insight into action.

easy-to-use platform. no, thank you. we know you're always looking for the best fill price. and walk limit automatically tries to find it for you. just set your start and end price. and let it do its thing.

wow, more fan mail. my uncle wanted to say thanks for idea hub. he loves how he can click on it and get specific actionable trade ideas with their probabilities throughout the day. [ male announcer ] open an account and get a $150 amazon.com gift card. call 1-888-280-0157 now. optionsxpress by charles schwab. was a record collection. no. there was that fuzzy stuff on the gouda. [ both ] ugh! when it came to our plants... we were so confused. how much is too much water? too little? until we got miracle-gro moisture control. it does what basic soils don't by absorbing more water, so it's there when plants need it. yeah, they're bigger and more beautiful. guaranteed. in pots. in the ground. in a ukulele. are you kidding me? that was my idea. with the right soil... everyone grows with miracle-gro. thanks so much for watching on this busy afternoon of breaking news in boston and the tsarnaev investigation.

chris matthews and "hardball" picks things up right now. friends. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. whose side are you on? the side of terrorists who attacked hundreds of people killing three, wounding dozens and dozens more, or are you on the side of the country you're living in, the country you've come to studty in, learn from, become an adult in? on the side of the person identified as the killer or on the side of those he killed and those he deliberately tried to kill. before someone starts singing that's what friends are for, i encourage a deeper grasp on what we may well be looking at here. it's disturbing enough we have two brothers here suspected of turning on the people of the country that gave them a home. now we have the prospect of another trio tin