this morning my question. what do we owe our veterans? and still getting it wrong on katrina. and we try to get to the bottom of the usda settlement controversy. first, president obama has got the second-term blues. ♪ good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. what a difference three days makes. fewer than 72 hours passed between president obama's

standup act and his press conference marking the 100th day of his second-term. but the president we saw on tuesday was singing a distinctly different tune for the wise guy wh who had jokes a few days before instead of all i do is win, he was doing a little diddy called second-term blues. and it goes a little something like this. >> do you still have the juice to get the rest of your agenda for this congress? >> if you put it that way, jonathan, maybe i should pack up and go home. you seem to suggest that somehow these folks over there have no responsibilities and that my job is to somehow get them to behave. that's their job. the point is in are common-sense solutions po the problems right now. i with not force republicans to

embrace those common sense solutions. >> this president obama having a sad day as he watches an obstruction of congress sabotage his second-term agenda is the far cry from the man who put the "o" in hope in 2007. now he's giving us the yes we can 2013 remix. yes, we could, if only republicans let me. these are the views shared by every u.s. president. that's just as the founders wanted it. by investing with little formal power and subject to the short leash of congress. add a republican house majority unwilling to give a single inch. it's reason enough for president of the united states to throw himself a pity party. president obama said as much on tuesday when he laid out the limits of his leadership. >> i can urge them to. i can put pressure on them.

i can rally the american people around those common sense solutions, u ultimately they themselves are going to have to say we're going to do the right thing. >> the right thing. let's pause on that. political opponents will have a different sense of what the right thing. as we say on this show, elections have consequences. when we choose a new president or decide to give the old one a second chance, we are also deciding to move forward with that president's agenda. the agenda of this president, the one chosen by a popular majority has been subverted by the will of a small but determined minority. it's disregarded by a senate majority that fall short of a filibuster proof margin. it was behind the expansion of the firearms background checks. the failure of this common sense

proposal, it should have been a no brainer had the president seeing red, but the coauthor of that legislation, pat toomey gave president obama plenty of reason to speak blue. >> i thought that we had settled on a really common sense approach that ought to be able to achieve a consensus. i think in the end we didn't because our politics are so polarized. there are people on my side who didn't want to be perceived to be helping something that the president wants to accomplish. simply because it's the president who wants to accomplish this. >> which brings me to a small but determined minority. the national rifle association. whose influence in congress far overextepds the reach among the

people. the nra is all too willing, danging the threat of an electoral defeat should a member of congress run the policy perspectives. right now in houston the nra is strategying for the 2014 elections. the prospect of a second term is apt inspiration for president obama's lose. blues give vois to a collective injustice and longing for change. the same longing for change that earned the president a victory twice over. when he hopes now is that these blues will have congress singing a new song come 2014.

and former cheaf of staff the newt gingrich 2012 campaign and ira cat nelson, professor of political science and history at columbia university. and author of "fear itself: the new deal from the origin of our time." thank you all for being here. gairlt, i want to start with you. i feel like what is going on here? you have 90% of americans saying they support it. what in the world is happening? >> remember that. you had some house members saying it's going to die when it comes over here. you had senators saying i'm not going to stick my neck out to something dying and i don't want to give obama a victory. i don't want to give him something he wants.

that's what the president kept saying. it's not about me. they keep trying to make it about him. you have a sizable number for whom that is enough motivation. also for whom blowing it all up is perfectly acceptable. if it all shuts down, great, we want that. there's another more hardball game to be played here. i would like to see the members threatening to filibuster. god bless the folks from newtown, but until there's political pain and a cost who with going to take the vote. >> we did see gabby giffords grab her friend and say come on. i started to see you get the idea that republicans are trying the blow the whole thing up but

i want to play this rnc ad that came right after the president. >> the gun bill failed. the sequester is here to stay. immigration reform is still a glimmer of hope largely because the president has stayed out of i it. >> maybe i should pack up and go home. >> it will only thing we're going to allow to happen is the one thing the president isn't a part of. i have to say, it's an incredibly effective ad. but it feels like they're saying we are still running against this president. >> forget politics whatever the answer really is, you say, yes, absolutely. that is leadership 101. >> it's that swagger. you just always say yes.

yes. he always had juice. >> that was absolute fiction. i'm sure. well, here's the thing. blaming congress has become a very convenient thing for the president. if y'all remember after newtown, the rhett rik was not just directed at criminals. it became a vilification of gun owner ship. i have a carry permit. i have a license. when you start with all are bad. >> but, i got to tell you, there's nothing in the legislation that is a matter of policy. >> enit gets to a watered down piece of legislation. >> it was watered down by harry reid.

>> part of the reason is there that flank on it. we gave away assault weapons van before there was a vote on it. no one is talking about this is going to be radical. >> i'm so glad you said that. oif been spending my life working my way through it. part of the claim you make is the infestation within the congress itself. >> we have to remember it's a ro bust politics. president should not walk away from that. the outcome that we get in legislation is the result of people pushing and tugging and

and shoving. now the president's rhetoric, however, was potentially well chosen if he's playing for the long run. he may well have calculated to say i have juice and i am fighting would make him seam weaker in a few weeks when he doesn't get anything ils. he says you don't play the game. i'm coming back to you. >> hold right here. whether or not you perform the swagger or ask your partner to deal with it. the president's domestic agenda isn't the only thing giving him the blues. this guy is a nobel peace prize winner, folks. [ indistinct conversations ]

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overnight we had breaking news with confirmation of israeli launched air strikes targeting strikes inside the country of syria. for more we bring in chief correspondent reporting from nearby turkey. richard? >> melissa, this is a sign of how chaotic and dangerous the situation in syria has become. there are very serious concerns of what will happen to the vast stockpile of weapons in syria as the country is in a state of collapse. nbc news learned israel carried out an air strike in syria early on friday. the target, according to an

israeli official, was a weapons depot, some missiles israel sayses was on their way out of syria bound for hezbollah. this is the second time israel has done something like this. in january there was a similar strike. targeting weapons that israel says were leaving syria for the lebanese militia group hezbollah. the government has an alliance with hezbollah and israel has said repeatedly they consider the game changing weaponry from hezbollah to syria or obviously any chemical weapons. this comes as the united states is trying to figure out potentially a new strategy for syria. the policy of pushing the two sides, the opposition to have a political reconciliation just hasn't been working. and the rebels say they want weapons. way want a no fly zone.

president obama has resumed out sending in american troops. that appears to be messaging for the american people. because the opposition here, and they're based here in southern turkey, don't want american troops on the ground. they want the no-fly zone. they want weapons. but if president obama is signaling to the nerj people that there won't be troops involved, there is a hope here at least that this is an early step to taking a much more engaged process with the syrian opposition. we will see if that plays out, but certainly there are many people here in southern turkey who would like to see the united states more involves if not having u.s. troops which is something they do not want. >> i'm going to turn to how the ongoing crisis in syria is impacting president obama and the impacting his foreign policy. yesterday he blurred the old line that he had previously said

using chemical weapons against syrian rebels. >> it's going to be based on number one, the facts on the ground. number two, it's going to be based on what's in the interest of the american people and our national security. and as president of the united states i'm going to make those decisions based on the best evidence and careful consultation. because when we rush into things, not only do we pay a price, but often times we see unintended consequences on the ground. >> so this is the president doubling down on the cautious approach to decision making. does this end up making him look indecisive when maybe what we ought to be seeing, as you were saying earlier, is the sense of carefulness of decision make sng. >> he probably regrets the red line remark he made. that statement put him and the united states in a bind. but having said that, his caution is genuinely thoughtful

because the range of options is very limited in this case. how to be effective in a way that does not empower those who in the long run will cause us deep trouble. finally the there's a region here to be considered. the war in syria can spill over just as any future in iran might spill over. and it's those sfil-over effects and possibilities. a region that might have down the road a nuclear arms race, border crossings of troops from governments and from nonofficial forces. and that mix, that potential mix is something the president does well to consider carefully. >> and one of the most important lessons i hope we have learned from iraq is we did not know what we were getting into.

here we are to send more troops over to deal with counter insurgency in afghanistan. the situation on the ground is so precarious that getting involved -- the other thing is with this issue of troops on the ground, we all know how easy it is. you start with a no-fly zone. then the pressure becomes let's do this. let's do this. >> and then you have american soldiers. >> that's right. we still have 66,000 troops in afghanistan in the middle of a war. and everything that goes on, the conversation that we have, don't think that the folks over there in the taliban aren't paying attention and using anything that we do and say as recruiting tools in that effort. >> patrick, this is exactly my angst about the presidential swagger as the basis for sort of demonstrating power. because for me to watch a president say, hey, this is complicated. to acknowledge that a region like this can't be sort of macho

manned out, i find that comforting that my president is taking a moment and not rushing in. >> y'all ready for this evening? i have no problem with what obama is doing right now. because his -- forget his swagger. forget what his politics are. these are decisions that affect people's lives. if you're looking at our troops and we quite frankly couldn't afford this, then it's a cautious approach. i'm glad this is on tape. >> we can't underscore enough how dangerous this red line is. it's a political line and it's a political gotcha game. you drew the red line. then you broke the red line. you didn't do anything. so you appear weak. but it's totally damaging to the kinds of decisions you want to

make that are contextual. if you know the red line because you prepared it, where is the negotiating room? and now there's a hardcore diplomatic track that obama is pursuing. kerry is going to visit russia which has to be a mayor play ore. that's really where the red line stuff is going to impact diplomacy. i'm concerned about that. >> i so appreciate that you said it that way. jonathan wrote part of what's going on with the leadership narrative is the magical thinking about how a leader is meant to lead in this concept that political commentators just prefer a narrative instead of numbers. i was thinking, it's the west wing problem, right? it's the problem of watching you can show your manliness and it will all be fixed.

>> the other thing to take this out wide is from the perspective of barack obama, it's all on the table. you're trying to get guns done. you're trying to get immigration reform done. all that requires a a certain am of political capital, building certain alliances between republicans and democrats and figuring out -- and getting aca implemented fully. so figuring out where you can push and get something done, and where it may not -- i hate to say it, be worth the capital, even though sometimes i think for those of us on the outside, we think it's worth the fight. when you know the facts, you know you can't win that one. this president is one that he wants to win. he doesn't like to do the showmanship hean the game for the sake of the game. >> so we're coming back to immigration. i also don't want to lose guantanamo. but we're also going to talk about immigration when we come back.

the president's blue mood seemed to have lifted yesterday while he spoke these words about immigration reform during his trip to mexico. as a nation of immigrants this doesn't reflect our values. i'm working with congress to pass common sense immigration reform. i'm optimistic after years of trying we are going to get it done this year. i'm absolutely convinced. >> i'm absolutely convinced. he's feeling good there. he also initially told us he's closing guantanamo bay. it feels that these are both big things that people have a lot of

emotions about. the congress either by working with him or against him will make happen. but ultimately who has a stake in getting immigration reform passed? republicans. 2014 mid election reforms are coming up. so there is a political imperative for republicans to work with the president that does not exist on other issues. >> so in this one you think it will happen because it could benefit them. if immigration reform is done under president obama does that bring the latinos into the democratic party? >> i think the president will get most of the credit. the republicans can't afford, at this point, to say no. but the democrats are going to gain. this issue is so identified with the president and with the democratic party and the opposition to it is so keenly

identified in the republican primaries and the the election with the republican party. and that won't go away. people remember. it's deeply, deeply felt. there are good reasons why many should be voting republican. president bush dmoned in texas as governor that he could win significant portions of latino votes. that impulse was wasted for the republican party when they took such a strong stance about mexicans. >> i think for the republican party it's clearly about controlling the demographic lead now. they would love to go back to the george w. bush level of disparity in terms o of the vote. obama is taking a backseat on this. he's cautioned that his brand is toxic to getting legislation

through the congress and if you make it really about his achievements you will have this happen in gun control. members of the house and members of the senate who are moderate republicans vote just to defeat him. even when it's in their long-term interest to pass an immigration bill. >> i'm bun of the few people that don't buy into the fact that republicans need to pass immigration form to win the presidency. he basically said if romney had the most historic vote a republican ever had he would have still lost because he didn't turn the base out. i don't accept that premise. if obama wants to get something done, he's going to have to lose his presidential add. when the country is focused on one topic, he throws up other red herrings. i don't know if this is the best time to talk about gitmo.

there does seem to be a ball rolling on immigration reform. >> people are starving themselves. >> yeah, and in fact, i wonder if that's part of it. you talk about throwing up red herrings. i'm wondering if it's the movements coming organically from the bottom. in the case of guantanamo bay. of the presidents themselves putting it on the agenda. and the lgbt movement. >> they did not want to talk about it. >> a lot of the issues have been waiting for their moment for so long. under bush it was impossible. we had the war. we had the economy dominating. kids are getting shots in the street. we have to talk about guns. by the way we have all this stuff that does really matter in people's day-to-day lives. >> presidents have to work with

multiple time frames. guantanamo has been thrown up him because of the hunger strikes. we have 86 people in guantanamo cleared for release for years. they are not thought to be national security threats for the united states. and yet there they are. they understood at one point they would be leaving. imagine that you are held, perhaps by mistake. and told you would be released, and then years go by. no wonder they're desperate. that problem has to be solved. it's not easy because where will they go? but the situation in guantanamo is now so intense that the president must find a way to deal with it. and good presidents and especially great presidents work with multiple time lines and more than one issue at a time. >> i want to dig down into some of this a little bit. part of it is seeing that the president can't even get through congress very basic things, like judicial appointments.

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while some aspects of president obama's second-term agenda have been stalled or s e sidetrack sidetracked, there is one that has come to a halt. the process to fill the 80 seats across the country. the republican senators blame the president for being slow to suggest nominees in their states. the white house and congressional democrats blame republicans whose states have the highest number of vacancies that have also gone unfill ed fr the longest amount of time. 40% have been designated emergencies. we're talking about american citizens in the american court system dealing with the delays because there are fewer judges

handling more cases and justice for all remains stuck in limbo. this is realtime consequences for the gridlock. they managed to get faa through, no problem. stand in line for a plane and we are going to solve that. but you can just wait for your trial. >> that's right. and to some degree it's because the people who are waiting are invisible. they're not big donors. they're not people who have a large, loud group of people advocating for them. it's here and there. that is part of the problem with the politics right now. there's invisibility basically. if you can't get yourself up here, you're just going to have to wait. is this inveblt to make this happen, is this a shift in our partis

partisanship? is this about new structures that basically make it a 60-person vote that must happen in the context of the senate. i'm really trying to stand. should i think this is a bad president or an evil congress? >> you know me, i'm a pretty harsh critic of the president's efforts. but in this case i think it's purely the result of obstructionism. he has put forward nominees. they are reasonable nominees. in any other era they would have sailed through confirmation. this is one of those purely gop obstructionist things and also on gun control to bring it back to that, he did everything that the left is saying to do. he barn stormed the country. he sent joe biden to barn storm the country. he sent michelle obama to barn storm the country. he did everything that is in his sort of wheel house of tricks to get and campaign to get the bill passed, and it failed because of the filibuster. because of structural rules in the senate. >> it had a majority vote. it just didn't have 60. >> a lot of things, he hasn't

tried hard enough. >> we have a politics in which individual members of congress are so tightly tied to intensely organize nized interests that they are afraid, really afraid, despite their safe seats, to move in the public interest towards compromised positions. >> would your limit change that? >> you know, that's a good question. term limits often have unintended consequences. they get rid of the people with skill legislation and who have developed the capacity over the years to think about the public interest in a thoughtful way. the negative part of term limits is that we continue to feed the system with those with the least experience and the most intense connections to donors, to fierce interest groups and to those unwilling to make necessary compromises in the civic interest. >> part of the republican narrative here is that the

president is a bad leader. even as -- part of what they say is we're not going to help you. then they say. i can't believe you didn't lead me. why didn't you lead me? is there anyone you would define, democrat or republican, as a good leader? i'll go bipartisan. reagan and even clinton. these guys cast a vision. for reagan it was shining and sitting on a hill. conservatives didn't understand what it was, but people understood that there's a theme to what he does. and right now obama is lacking a theme. believe it or not, there was a democrat, actually, got me involved in politics. it was my congressman buddy from the 7th congressional district in georgia.

when clinton wanted to pass tax increases, clinton was the leader of his own party. he lost a seat over it. but clinton had inspired enough leadership in his own party to do these things. >> we have to go to a break. let's call bill clinton a great leader and all that. but let's not forget he was impeached. like, i worry about this revisionist thing we do about the great clinton years when he was impeached by the congress. but more on all the revisionist history when we come back. thank you to patrick, one of our favorite republicans here. apparently because he was drawn into politics by a democrats. and a programming note. next week on this program, house minority leader nancy pelosi comes in. she helped potentially to cure the blues of this president. be sure to join us for that.

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well, thanks for your help. yeah, no problem. call back anytime. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. late payment forgiveness. get the new it card at discover.com. the george w. bush presidential library opened to the public on wednesday in dallas, texas. since then we are learning more about what's inside. which gives me an opportunity to take note of one particular exhibit in the form of letter. dear former president george w. bush, it's me, melissa. congratulations on the opening of your new library. now maybe you'll go inside one. you long held that history will be the judge of the decisions you made as president, but what the exhibit at your library, it looks like you are planning to give history in a nudge that you find favorable. you're still pushing deold

intelligence to justify the decision making in iraq. i'm sorry, mr. president. tlerp no weapons of mass destruction. that's oops, my bad. the cost is $2 trillion and 4,500 american lives. but the one decision point is how your library represents the choices you made in the aftermath of hurricane katrina. according to your exhibit, the big issue is whether or not you should have invoked the insurrection act to control the looters. oh, yeah? as much as 80% of the city was flooded. nearly 1,000 residents died. in many their own homes drowned by storm surges that breached

levies. more were trapped for days without working bathrooms, food, electricity and you were figuring out whether or not to quell an insurrection. these people were americans, mr. president. homeowners, taxpayers, voters. your people and your were vacationing. while they drowned. the decision you voushould have been making, sir, wasn't on how to quell them, it was how to save them. but hey, even if you completely bungled the immediate response, you did come on down to new orleans after the storm to give a rousing speech in jackson square. you promised to uncover the facts, to rebuild the infrastructure, and to make sure that new orleans emerged from the storm with resibut let's be. equality over recovery is not the best description for the reality in new orleans. but i'm not complaining. the people of my city didn't

wait around for you to keep our promises. they reopened schools, lobbied for resources and rebuilt their lives one sheet of dry wall at a time. but the struggle continues. nearly eight years after you were considering the later decision, our city has the second highest rate of homelessness. as for you, here's what you recently told cnn's john king. >> we learned life doesn't end after you're a president. you're going 100 miles per hour and in my case we woke up in crawford going zero. so the challenge is how to live life to the fullest. >> that's cool, mr. president. i'm glad you're slowing down, finding a way to live life to the fullest. in the meantime, tens of thousands of new orleanses are trying to find a way home, still

displaced by the policies of your administration. still reelg from your decisions. by hey, heck of a job "w." sincerely, melissa. man's mouth ] ♪ ♪ [ camera shutter clicks ] [ male announcer ] fight pepperoni heartburn and pepperoni breath fast with tums freshers. concentrated relief that goes to work in seconds and freshens breath. ♪ tum...tum...tum... tum...tums! ♪ tums freshers. fast heartburn relief and minty fresh breath.

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we have another great selection for you in nerd land writer's corner. fear itself, the new deal and the origins of our time takes a complex look at one of the greatest pieces of social of our time. it looks at the fears that the country faced at the time, and the deals that fdr and northern liberals had to make with southern democrats, which included the preservation of the south racial hierarchy. joining me now is the author of fear itself, also columbia university's professor of political science and history. so start by talking about what the fears were in the moment

that shaped who we are as a country. >> the most obvious fear was the collapse of global capitalism. but at the same time the country faced and liberal democracy faced deep competition in rome. in berlin. the great fear was could liberal democracies solve big problems like the collapse of capitalism. second followed on the first. the growth of a world of great violence, culminating in the second world war. ending with atomic weapons, and then the discovery of the holocaust. and the third great fear of the era was inside america. the fearful and fear charged, terror charged system of jim crow. a world in which african-americans feared on a daily basis, and in which white

americans in the south who defended the system were deeply anxious about the continuity. and the three sets of fear together confronted the roosevelt administration in the 1930s and 1940s. >> so one of the things we're trying to do is to take the historical epics and bring them to the contemporary moment. and yet, you also write the new deal was a moment when the most mu fundamental contours of politics were deeply unsettled. that notion of being unsettled and the fears about the economy, capacity of the democracy and about the changing racial demographics, i got to tell you, it feels very present to me. >> 1947, not today, the great writer e.b. white wrote i live in an age of fear. we could say we live in an age

of fear. of course, our fears are not the same as those of the 1930s and 1940s. but we live in an age of economic challenge. we live in a moment of religious zealoutry. and in those circumstances, our democracy, any democracy, has to find a means to stay sober, to not cave to fear, to maintain the constitutional order, and to discern a sense of public interest, able to move ahead, without panic. and that sometimes we're fot doing very well. >> is there a lesson from this moment about -- i like the language of sobriety about our democracy. it's easy to throw up our hands and scream, oh my goodness, the house is on fire.

are there tactics that we can use as a people? >> we may start with franklin rose vel's first inaugural. we had lots of things to be afraid of. but he wished to calm the american people. it's important for american leaders and civic leaders to speak and measure thoughtful tones about the problems we face. to be even keeled. and in this, the president actually, i think, excels. it's also a moment where we have to discern ways of governing. ways of solving big problems. the current impasse between the president and congress causes the people to lose faith in the capacity of liberal democracy to solve big problems. when the president came to

office, we have to suspend their constitution to fight the emergency. the greatest is it did not not suspend the constitution. >> we found a way to still be americans pursuing this great project of what we are trying to do here. stick with us. we have more at the top of the hour. remember, mhp show is a two-hour show. so when we come back, we're going to talk about the two groups at the heart of the american ideal. farmers and veterans, what they really need right now and what we owe them. much love for the loss of kriskross this week. ♪

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the farmer to mythic status. but jefferson example is instructive. why it's washed in sepia tones of nostalgia, we all but forgot the labor. were the immigrants doing back breaking work today, americans real relationship with those who work the land is more complicated than this year's dodge ram super bowl commercial would have us believe. between 1940 and 1974, the number of african-american farmers fell from just more than 681,000 to fewer than 46,000. that's a drop of 93%. and this decline was no accident. it was a result of common practices at the usda. after decades of complaints that the department of agriculture routinely denied loans to african-american farmers, 400

black farmers filed suit against the usda in the case of pik fckd versus gli -- man. in 199, a judge agreed leading to more than a billion dollars in compensation. in the process of paying out the compensation, the government denied proxly 30% of farmers' claims. so concerns about the the process led to a second settlement, known as pickford two, in 2010. the u.s. department of justice agreed to $1.25 billion settlement which began paying out claims last year. many agreed justice had come to generations of black farmers but last week this headline hit the front page of "the new york times." the article detailed the allegation of claims that pik ford 2 characterized as a runaway claim.

and law firms that stand to gain more than $130 million in fees. the pickford case has once again been reopened and the legacy of black farming. the political science at columbia university. msnbc host karen finney, and democratic stat senator hak senders from alabama, the lead council for the black farmers. joining us from birmingham, alabama is democratic congresswoman souel. so nice to have you with us. >> thank you so much, melissa. >> you represent an area that is very rural. how is pickford perceived? >> well, my con constituents were part of the pickford one case. and the pickford two settlement, so many are waiting for their checks. the fact of the matter is my

grandmother died without receiving his $50,000. tlerp so many complaints against the usda that i really thought "the new york times" article was a gross mischaracterization of the process. >> so congresswoman, i think that's been my absolutely concern. i've been waiting for a front page story about pickford, but then the frontpage story that we get ends up sounding to me like some kind of agricultural welfare queen anxiety. >> exactly. that's such a gross mischaracterization. years and years, decades of being unfairly treated by the usda and not being able to get loans. i mean, my grandfather talked about it inscessantincessantly. he farmed in alabama. across my district so many were adversely affected that land is

lying idle right now. and that goes to your point that we saw a 93% decrease in farming across the board. and we can tell you to this get a claim through is more difficult process than "the new york times" indicated. the reality is that people had to certify they were discriminated against on penalty or perjury. so many that you have on your panel, state nart hank sander who is is a lead council on this. and people are waiting right now to receive retribution and restitution for decades of discrimination. >> so hank, let me come to you on exactly that. because the language of turning on the spig got, just sending out the federal money, is that appropriate? >> it's not only not appropriate. it's a disservice to the entire process.

i think it's important that we understand the scope and the the nature of the discrimination. what happened is when this bill was conceived back in the '30s, henry wallace really wanted the federal government to be in control of it. he put white people in control of it. and when he put them in control of it, their goal was to only have blacks available but to work on their farm. so they simply made sure that there were no blacks to participate whatsoever in getting along. if you're farming, you have to have money in the spring for equipment. you have to have money for seeds and fertilizer and other kinds of things. if you don't get it, then you're not able to farm.

and many prevented them from getting in. >> and ira, this is precisely the story that you tell. i'm reading your litigation. then i'm reading your book. this is the story that you tell. >> in the 1930s roughly half the democratic party came from the 17 states that still mandated racial segregation. jim crow representatives had at their first priority protecting the racial order of the south. including welfare acts for unions and including agriculture legislation. farm workers and maids were kept out of the benefits. that's what african-americans did in the south when they worked for a wage. or local administration.

it was the answer to the worries of the south about how federal law would play out. and in consequence he rules. governed the legislation you can look at the decline in farmers. 1982, on the back end in that, one in every 67 is african-american. black farmland declined from 1910, 15 million acres of black owned farmland. 1982, 3.1 million acres. this isn't on the margins. this is the defamation of a life, of a way of being. and therefore the able to pass land is what we pass on. so why "the new york times" article now? it just felt to me like a hit

piece. it felt like really complicated deeply research. but then, wait a minute. >> the thing that bored me about the piece, you can believe there are parts of the law written poorly because heaven knows the government doesn't always do a good job. number one, this idea of inefficiency. we were talking about that before. under obama. that's a theme we heard time and time. this black president is inefficient government. secondly, the theme that we're starting here time and time again is who is deserving and who is not deserving. the vilification of poor people as lady and undeserving. the welfare queen and very specific things come to mind.

that's the story that is just playing into those themes. then you read crazy steve king from iowa saying this is a buyout for black people. they're trying to buy off minorities. that's disturbing. >> there's more immediate historical context that the piece missed, which is in 1983 reagan uses brutal cuts. she is literally thrown into the trash can, which creates an evidence gap. people who are trying to put in writing their claim to discrimination. you are looking at a series of cases where it is not clear. it's not always documented. now did that create some loose standards that aren't transparent and accountable?

it looks like that might have been the case. but we need to find out the scale of that. the point to to be historically minded and understand the many times discrimination impactd this group of people. that's the best way to frame this as a historical inquiry about justice. >> and congresswoman, so on one hand we have got this historic pram. but it also feels like it's clear being made at this present congress. but are there actions you are planning to take or others in congress are planning to take around what's now been raised? >> you know, the congressional black caucus has traditionally been the caucus in congress that's been the voice. and for the voice of the black farmers. we are all quite concerned about

the article. and a lot of us really concerned about the appropriate rated money already set aside for the current pickford two settlement, those checks actually coming to the discriminated black farmers. i think we in congress have appropriated the biography. it's incumbent upon us to get the waste fraud out of the system. i feel it was a miskarvgtization for this article and this journalist to suggest all the claims or the majority of the claims were fraudulent. i can tell you as i go across the district i hear time and time again how they were selling against. how they had to sell the land. they were talking about farmers here. what's more american than our farmers. i just think that it's really sad at this day and age that we would try to make this a racial

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we are discussing the pickford cases that resulted in billions of dollars in government compensation to african-american farmers who had been discriminated against by the department of agriculture for decades. at issue was the usda's credit department fraudulent allocation of farm loans, debt restructuring and crop payments. these types of government loans and subsidies are an essential part of the american agricultural business. on average usda subsidies totalled $11.8 billion annually paid directly to american

farmers. who gets these federal dollars and for what size of crops has influence on the hands that do that work. so i think this is part of what i wanted to point out, hank, farmers getting the help of government is standard practice. this is, in fact, how farpers farm in the country and african-american farmers were systematically shut out of it. is that the story we need to know? >> yeah, let me make several points. it's hard to farm without help. white folks can't do it. the second point is you have to understand the massive nature of the discrimination. it wasn't that most people got the chance to apply. many times when you went in. they say there are no more applications. come back next week. you come back and they send you back. it's just massive. there was a plan to all of this. the third thing is it did great

damage to -- first, it did damage to people who were farming. people who wanted to farm did not get a chance to farm. it did damage to families because the families would break down. people couldn't work, couldn't make a living. they left and went to chicago and detroit and other places. they break down communities. it's a massive nature of the destruction on it. and quickly i want to say they characterize this as the black farmers case because that's a highly charged racial term. but it's really five different cases. it's a women's case, a hispanics cases, a native american case and two african-american case. the second pickford case. it's interesting to know that the united states congress now passed a law authorizing this.

then it passed a law aappropriate rating the the money. in that it required multiple kinds of audit. there are layers and layers to make sure the fraud is not wiped out then held to a minimum. when they say black it colors the whole thing. >> the state senator's point to me feels like precisely what was going on at least in the tone of this article, which was the sense it wants you to have black farmers. you have this black president under whom it all happens and the language of the speck et and the american government. so i appreciate it's hard to farm without government help. not white folks do it. it's hard to do lots of things like drive on roads or buy houses. when white folks do it we make it invisible. when black folks do it we give it a derogatory name like

welfare. >> and the terms become demonized. it goes into the theme of who is deserving, who is not deserving? lazy, hard working. all farmers are hard working. it doesn't matter what color you are. and the idea of this discrimination, it's happening now. there are how many cases of discrimination on home loans. now the government is investigating auto loans. are you really suggesting you don't think it happened? that discrimination doesn't happen owning a home and passing on a home to your family, that's supposed to be a fundamental part of american life. >> the reports about the e vab ration of black wealth in the context of this economic downturn. it's a reminder that doesn't happen accidentally. it's the result of systematic

policy. >> the language was the 47% video. this is the new theory of the democratic voter that only people who are beholden to the government and sind of mind controlled by them with these gifts are going to vote for obama an that explains their supremacy in the polls. the same theory is not applied to the industrial complex, corporate capital, all the trenches that get government aid or benefit from the government. >> there were a lot of people in the usda who have been pushing this. they've been pushing it for years. finally they got somebody like "the new york times" to end up doing this. and out of all of this discrimination, not a single person was ever fired. not a single person was ever demoted. not a single person was

investigated. the only person fired was shirley sherrod. and she was innocent. she was black. she hadn't done anything wrong except tried to help this white farmer and got fired. >> no one was held fundamentally accountable. the title of your previous book is when affirmative action was white. and there's this idea of support nst it will racialized. >> the amount of help goes to farms. often not to grow things or to grow things that are inefficient. we have a public policy structure that has largely left out those near the bottom of the social structure. it's not discrimination against african-americans or native americans or latinos on the land, it's discrimination against small farmers, people trying to eke out a living.

and we have a deep bias in our public policy that dates back, unfortunately now, many, many decades. >> thank you to state senator hank. i appreciate the advocacy work that you have done and continue to do. the rest are staying for more. when we come back we want to introduce everybody to an incredible new program and the remarkable man leading it. for many of our veterans the mission continues. many people are struggling with issues related to mental health. by earning a degree in the field of counseling or psychology from capella university, you'll have the knowledge to make a difference in the lives of others. let's get started at capella.edu.

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before the break we were discussing the american farmer, in particular african-american and other minority group farmers and whether or not the government owes them for past transgressions. but when we think about the nation's veterans there are few

that think we have to question we as a people owe them. we owe them our freedom. we owe them our speedy response. we owe them career opportunities. many veterans are not waiting on us. in fact, they say don't ask what you can do for me, rather let me tell you what i can do for you. a program called the mission continues is creating a different way for post 9/11 veterans to transform their lives through ongoing education and community service. eric is a former navy s.e.a.l. and the founder of the mission continues. he joins me now from new york where a group of veteran volunteer will be working at the league school and alongside him is thomas roberts. so nice to have you both with us. >> great to be on with you, melissa. >> so eric, you worked with more than 600 post 9/11 vets. explain to us what mission continue work does.

>> exactly, melissa. we've had 683 veterans go through our programs. these are men and women who signed up after september 11th, 2001. they've come home and we're a national service o that helps all of these veterans transition from military service to positions of community service and leadership here at home. just like you said we're about to take a group of 73 veterans out in brooklyn. >> so what's going on in the room behind you there? >> i have one of my fantastic staff members, aaron walker is giving a brief about the work we're going to do. we're going to go to a league school in brooklyn. and these veterans are recommitting to service. we're going to do a school revitalization project. they're going to repaint buildings, repairing a fence and a flag pole for some of

brooklyn's kids who really have special needs. we believe they get back to work on the front lines of their communities. >> and thomas, you're hanging out with the vets again today? >> they've been kind enough to let me come in here. we have 73 fellows here today. the average age is about 30 years old. many on average have about eight years of service. the mission continues is a great organization where they want to include people coming back from iraq or afghanistan. those who served post 9/11 and served at least two years. the mission is fantastic. eric gave a keynote speech earlier this morning. you love him and hate him because he's so accomplished and so awesome. and he can run a marathon. that's another reason but leadership is about casting invision.

he is a true leader but he's also casting the vision to a roomful of leaders. we're going to take this over to the league school. and the fellows are going to take an oath tonight down at the 9/11 memorial because this continues for six months. >> and we're putting thomas to work. we go out and start to work in the community. we bring out volunteers. and the whole communities get inspired. they see what this generation of veterans is capable of. >> i hope you're getting that on tape thomas. >> you'll see it. >> i want to ask you one final question here. part of what we have been talking about is the sense that we as a people, as a nation, as a government owe something to veterans for the sacrifices

made, for signing up post 9/11, for volunteering, for being part of the efforts. but these are veterans who are in fact continuing to give back. i'm wonder whoing why that stra. >> these veterans are not looking for a handout. they want to continue to serve. in the military they had a sense of purpose, comradery. through the mission continues they build that sense of service through continued service at home. they return for six months. they work for habitat for humani humanity, for big brothers and big sisters. >> the big thing on the t shirlts. it's not a charity, it's a challenge. all these fellows are here now up to the challenge of what the mission continues is going to put in front of them. certainly we talk about veteran organizations for those returns from iraq and afghanistan and we feel strongly about shining a bright light on the tissue.

and it is tough for the service members coming back. we have leading members giving these leaders, these are leaders that have protected our freedoms overseas, but bringing these leaders back and giving them direction at home. >> thank you to eric and to thomas. the work you are doing today and over time is really fantastic. >> and els sa, you'll see that tape. you'll see it. >> we'll put him to work. >> after the break the war of bureaucracy that our veterans face when they come home. at a dry cleaner, we replaced people with a machine. what? customers didn't like it.

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before the break we are talking about an amazing

outpouring of volunteerism from post 9/11 veterans. but we didn't talk about the hardships that many of them face. 900,000 compensation claims are pending with 610,000 of those older than 125 days. it's not a handout to ask for a disability claim. the other alarming trend is the suicide rate. according to a recent department of veteran affairs study, a veteran takes his or her own life every 65 minutes. that's 22 veterans a day lost to suicide. joining me now is tarik, he served two tours of duty in iraq. back with me is richard kim and msnbc's karen finney. i want to start by playing a little sound.

about resolving the backlog by 2015. >> we ought to resolve to eliminate the backlog of 2015, a goal we set a few years ago. and 2015, the intent is that claims will be processed at 125 days or less, at 98% accuracy level. >> how do you respond to that. >> 2015 has been the talking point of the v.a. forever. any time they're asked, that's all they talk about. 2015, 2015, 2015. what about the hearing now? we have veterans coming home right now. 2015 is not an acceptable answer when you need to file for a compensation exclaim. recently, 67 united states senators signed a letter demanding president obama take action and take leadership. 67 senators agreed on this. when is the last time they agreed on anything? they the agree to support our

veterans. we feed presidential leadership on this. >> what is the presidential piece? what could they do to speed it along? we need solutions now. the 2015 goal line sounds nice. it's a nice sound bite. that's more of a long-term goal. there's solutions that need to be engineered now. and we asked the president to get involved. take the bull by the horns and get involved on this. all right, we owe it to our veterans to do this. when a veteran comes home in new york city, he's waiting well over 640 days. l.a., well over 600 days. that's unacceptable. to hear 2015, that's not right either. >> karen, you regularly make the point that we seem to have forgotten how many men aim women are still there, still in the theater. >> i had someone over there for the next year.

if it's not a part of the daily life, we still have people getting shot at. it's about to be the fighting season in afghanistan. i.e.d. killed four american soldiers earlier today. we do forget about that. and that is on top of the veteran who is is come home. a couple of points that i would make on this, though, i think one thing that he did was added some of the vietnam veterans. part of the problem is they increased the number of people that they were trying to help. and this shows the lack of planning that went into this war in the first place in iraq and afghanistan. they never thought about on the back end what kind of injuries we're going to have. and the long-term, people are surviving injuries that they never would have. so the long term care implications are tremendous. and for those guys on the hill who are saber rattling that we need to go in syria, then i want you to plan for after. i want you to plan for the

veterans. the cost of the war cannot be getting into the war and fighting the war but also taking care of the veterans. >> as i was reading the spirit self book i learned something i previously did not know. we have row mant schism about vetera veterans. americans will always take care of the veterans. there was a moment when there was an opportunity for the soldier vote. if you went over and risked your life, then you should have the right to vote. it would have enfranchised many african-americans and others. is part of the reason that we allow the failure. we don't really address our needs? >> we had more than 12 million soldiers under arms. no one should say they shouldn't vote. jim crow southerners did not

want them to vote. the bill that passed congress was not the one proposed. he got up in the senate and said, it's an exact quote, our boys are fighting for white supremacy. today we have a slightly different but not entirely unrelated puzzle. with the volunteer army, many segments of american society don't experience, feel, understand or empathize and active military and their families. and that changes the politics not only of how we treat our veterans but how or when we go to war. and that absence of pain and penalty in going to war has transformed the meaning of war

in america, and i believe not for the better has changed the way we mistreat them. because of the burden that someone else carries. >> and the war went on so much longer than the mission accomplished banner was. so one of the reason you see that appalling suicide rate is people didn't do one rotation or two or three. they did four, five, six rotations. they never thought they would be in for more than that one shift. and so, you know, that's -- the harm was in this targeted sector and had so many times. >> so if you have 67 senators and we're saying part of the problem is the issue of invisibility. is there something that this isn't a senate versus problem. which a lot of the legislative problems were.

this is something we are doing as ordinary citizens to support them in this moment. >> the fact we got 67 senators to send a letter to the president says a lot. we have less than 1% of our nation's populations served in iraq and afghanistan towards and so few have actually served. so we need to do more. there's organizations like leadership fellow that is doing their part. but it's not enough. we need more americans to get involved. >> we're talking about the veterans. but we need to think of this as community and families. it's the spouses, who i am getting a lot of wisdom from. their parents, their loved ones. this is affecting whole families. whole communities, and so yes, it's the veteran. but we need to think about this in a very wholistic way as well. >> right. >> and what happened to the veterans is is part of a larger

amnesia that people are trying to have about the war. part and parcel, and this is not to prosecute the bush administration for pursuing this and as long as we're talking about taking care of our own guys, which we absolutely should, there's a question of what do we owe iraq and afghanistan? >> that's right. and all of that is a resource space. so while we're doing all of that and shutting down our tax base at the same time that we're saying wait a minute, folks have real claims here. thanks to everybody -- not just for being here, but for your service. thank you. up next, as we like to say in nerd land, forget bobby jindal. yep. my home state governor in support of teaching creationism in the public school. fbj. snoet vo: bold has a huge imagination

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. imagine your child comes home from school an you ask, what did you learn today. if he or she tells you that the earth was created in six days and god rested on the seventh, you might think that's fine if he or she were coming from sunday school at church. but what happened about in public school monday through friday? louisiana governor bobby jindal thinks that's just great. he said as much when louisiana education act in an interview with education nation last month. >> i've got no problem if the local school board says we want to learn about creationism. let's teach them about intelligence design. teach them the best. give them the tools where they can make up their own mind. not only in science, but as they learn about other controversial issues.

whether it's global warming, climate change or other issues, what are we scared of? >> what are we scared of? here's what i'm scared of. i'm scared of children being taught to go into the world thinking it's just a few thousand years old, not the 4.5 billion years of age scientists have determined it to be. that those children may be learning not just about evolution but something called creationism and intelligent design in science class, and i'm scared that they're not being taught the difference between science and religion. karen carter peterson, a louisiana state senator who has been our guest previously hads introduced yearly repeals of the science education act. the third appeal came up this wednesday. and for the third year in a row, it failed when the senators narrowly deferred legislation killing it in committee. and this is not just a louisiana issue. tennessee passed its own

creationism law last year, a law that's based off of the louisiana model. and another bill in missouri is still pending. next, we're going to go to louisiana to talk to the student who is spearheading the efforts to eliminate them all. stay with us. ♪ hey everybody, hi mom... streaming live with a tour of my new place... knowing you can still reach out. ... and now you've seen it. that's powerful. verizon. get mom a lucid 2 by lg for free. [ agent smith ] i've found software that intrigues me. it appears it's an agent of good. ♪ [ agent smith ] ge software connects patients to nurses to the right machines

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in one of my first ever footnotes on this show last year, i introduced to you a teenage student named zach copland. zach, in addition to being a sophomore at rice university, is a leading crusader against the louisiana science education act, which actually allows for the teaching of creationism as part of science class. joining me from new orleans to discuss his undaunted efforts to repeal that act is this week's foot soldier, zach copland. how are you? >> hey, i'm pretty good. how are you? it's great to be on. >> so i wish that we were here reporting about how you'd finally won, but we're not. but at least tell me what is the argument that you made in the state senate on wednesday? >> so the louisiana science education act, it hurts our

students, it hurts or economy, and our state. we're warming our students' education. they won't be prepared to take science and technology jobs when they graduate. we have had scientists leave the state because of this law. we have had science organizations cancel conventions costing us roughly $3 million. they've pulled out of new orleans and we have embarrassed the state in the eyes of the country. >> zack, as long as i have known you you have been fighting on this. and this is your third year in a row of losing on this, but you seem undaunted. how are you feeling right now? >> so we made progress this year. that's the key thing. this was the closest vote yet. we lost 3-2. first time our repeal bill was heard relost 56 5-1. this year it became quite clear, we lost again but the law will be repealed. the legislators can choose to be

on the right side of history oral wrong side. two chose the right side. hopefully that changes next year. >> zack, i know that studio you're in right now because i'm often there and there's, of course, a bookshelf and you're sitting in front of books and all that, but it feels to me like part of what happens here is that there are so many republicans that seem like they're just simply anti-intellectual. we've talked about how senator tom coburn was targeting political science and this week lamar smith argued thatn sf grants should only be for national defense and here in louisiana the question of teaching creationism in science classes. how do we just argue that intellect and data and ideas isn't partisan, it's just good for us? >> so science should not be partisan. that's the key thing. sometimes it seems to align one way or another. it should not be partisan. everybody should be in support of funding science because it's created the foundation we live on today. it should not be partisan and we do have republicans and

democrats supporting our repeal bill. our repeal bill was sponsored by senator peterson, and it was voted for by a republican from baton rouge. so we have bipartisan support. >> zack, i have always appreciated the work you're doing on this because you help give me such hope that young people will get engaged in our democratic process and it can make a difference. so thank you for being our foot soldier this week. >> thank you so much for having me on. >> and that is our show for today. thanks to you at home for watching. on tomorrow morning, another glimmer of hope, this one in the war on drugs. and tennis legend martina navratilova joins us live. up next, "weekends with alex witt." flying is old hat for business travelers. the act of soaring across an ocean in a three-hundred-ton rocket doesn't raise as much as an eyebrow for these veterans of the sky. however, seeing this little beauty over international waters

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congressional race between mark sanford and elizabeth kolberg bush is just three days away. and in office politics, alex talks to governor ed rendell about what he thinks the president's greatest skill is. hello, everyone. it's high noon in the east, 9:00 in the west. i'm maria schiavocampo in for alex. israel confirming they launched air strikes inside syria. the primary target was a weapons shipment headed to hezbollah in leban lebanon. let's get right to richard engel along the syrian border in nearby turkey. >> reporter: this is just another indication of the deep concern around the world about what is happening in syria and what is happening to the country's vast stockpiles of weapons, not just chemical weapons but conventional weapons. nbc news has learned that early on friday israel carried out an air strike in syria. the target according to an israeli official was a w