>> thanks, s.e. good afternoon. it's tuesday may the 7th. a hostage situation in cleveland undone. a community unnerved. and a society asking some serious questions. how did this happen? >> the nightmare is over. >> three women, each missing for a decade, found alive. >> she says, help me get out. i've been in here a long time. >> these women may never have seen the light of day. >> okay, and what's going on there? >> she comes out with a little girl and she says, call 911. my name is amanda berry. >> i've been kidnapped and i've been missing for ten years and i'm here. i'm free now. >> the type of happy ending that we don't hear often enough. >> three brothers, all in their 50s, are in police custody. >> you knew ariel castro. >> we see this dude every day. >> seems like an average joe. >> i barbecued with this dude.

>> to find the three girls recovered well, it gives us a boost. it really, really does. >> these girls, these women are so strong. neighborhood with neighborhood. we need to watch out for all kids. >> the healing can now begin. we have got a packed hour ahead and we'll keep you abreast of all the developments in political and foreign affairs. the president just a short time ago reaffirmed america's commitment to south korea in a joint news conference with newly elected south korean president park. when he was questioned about the crisis in syria, the president pushed back against those looking for an easy fix. >> understandably, there's a desire for easy answers. that's not the situation there. i'm making decisions not based on a hope and a prayer but on

hard-headed analysis in terms of what will actually make us safer and stabilize the region. >> much more on that just ahead. plus the dow closes above a record 15,000 in a big day of trading. more on that, too. but we begin with the incredible story of three young women emerging into the daylight from an ordeal that is almost impossible to imagine. after ten years in captivity, they were involved in a daring break for freedom that started with a frantic 911 call last night. >> help me. i'm amanda berry. >> do you need police, fire or ambulance? >> i need police. >> okay. and what's going on there? >> i've been kidnapped and i've been missing for ten years. and i'm here, i'm free now. >> those breathless words from escaped captive amanda berry led police to the house where she, gina dejesus and michel knight

were held more than a decade. her brave dash aided by a neighbor who heard berry screaming from inside the house. >> heard her screaming. i'm eating my mcdonald's. i come outside. i see this girl going nuts trying to get out of a house. so i go on the porch. i go on the porch and she says, help me get out. i've been in here a long time. so i opened the door and we can't get in that way because how the door is, it's so much that a body can't fit through. only your hand. so we kicked the bottom and she comes out with a little girl and she says, call 911. my name is amanda berry. >> by kicking out that door, a good neighbor, doing what police failed to do for years, allowing amanda berry to climb out with the child who police say is her 6-year-old daughter born during her captivity. police called to the scene freed the other two young women, taking them to a local hospital.

they've now all been released and are being reunited with their families. three brothers are under arrest including the homeowner, ariel castro. by all accounts, castro, a school bus driver, drew little notice in the community, safe for a key instance in 2004 when mr. castro left behind one of his young passengers on the school bus. investigating the incident, police went to his home, knocked, but left when no one answered. they walked away not knowing that the nondescript property was a prison for young girls who'd vanished. all taken from the same cleveland block. at a press conference earlier today, cleveland's mayor said the case leaves many questions in need of answers. >> why were they taken? how were they taken? and how they remained undetected in the city of cleveland for this period of time. >> important questions, indeed.

nbc's kristin dahlgren is with us live from cleveland. kristin, i see plenty of activity behind you. not very much over a period of ten years. what, exactly, is going on? >> reporter: hi there, martin. well, while the women are being reunited with their families, this is still an active crime scene investigation. i'll step out of way so you can take a closer look. that is the fbi there. they've been in and out of the house. we just saw them carry that front door away. they took it off its hinges, wrapped it up, presumably as evidence in this case. we've also seen them taking dogs into the house. our local affiliate here reporting those are cadaver dogs. so this is still a very active crime scene here. meantime, you talked about ariel castro being a bus driver. i just spoke to somebody a short time ago who said she was friends with gina dejesus and they rode the bus to school together. and she says she believes that

he was their bus driver. so that's some new information. obviously there are still a lot of questions in this case, but we also spoke to the family of gina dejesus, also the family of amanda berry, and they just can't express enough how grateful they are, how excited they are to have them coming home and just what the last ten years or so has been such an ordeal for these families. we don't get these kind of happy endings very often. they said they never gave up hope, though. gina dejesus' mom never changed a thing in her daughter's room. and the family is very hopeful that gina will be returning to her childhood home soon, martin. >> remarkable. kristen, you talk about speaking to neighbors, people in community. what explanation is being offered for how these three young women were kept hostages for ten years, allegedly by three brothers? how could they have sustained

this without a single neighbor, without a single neighbor raising suspicions? >> reporter: and that's a very good question, and when you look at a map, the homes least of gina and amanda are really within a two-mile radius of here, so we're not talks about somebody taking them far away from their homes. this was right under a lot of people's noses. take a look at these homes. they're close together. you would think that somebody would see something, would hear something. they said they knew ariel castro, they saw him around. they weren't sure he actually lived in this house. there are some speculation among neighbors he may have just come occasionally gone into the home and then left and had some other properties somewhere else. there were a few suspicious incidents, though, talking to neighbors. one says his sister one time saw a woman at the attic window, holding a baby and banging at the door. she was so upset by it she called 911. police came out, banged on the

door, nobody answered then they left. there were also some reports from neighbors women were spotted in the backyard chained up like dogs on dog leashes being held by men. now, as far as what police are saying about these incidents, and the press conference earlier today, they said they looked back at their records and they didn't have any records of coming out to this house, except for one instance and that is when ariel castro, as a bus driver, had a child stay on the bus and so the department of family services came out to see what happened in that incident. they determined that there wasn't any type of wrongdoing and it was just an accident. so really still a lot of questions out here, martin. >> nbc's kristen dahlgren with the latest. thank you, kristen. let's bring in joseph capostashi, the brother of msnbc's own chris jansing, and the former ninth grade science teacher of today's hero, amanda berry. joseph, good afternoon to you. >> good afternoon, martin. >> what are your recollections of amanda as a student?

because as i understand it, she disappeared at the age of 16 back in 2003. >> yes. i had her the year before as a science student, ninth grader. and she was in a class with 20 boys and 5 girls. now, it was a rough class, but she stood her ground. she was really a tough cookie, but she was also an "a," "b" student with me. she always did her look, never gave a problem. she was really a sweet girl. yeah, she looked rough around the edges, you know, she had her pierced ears, pierced eyebrow, but she really was a very nice girl. she was a hardworking girl. but she was a tough cookie. and it did not surprise me one bit that she actually was one who led the way for these other women to be brought out of that house. >> what was your assumption when she suddenly disappeared? what did you think had happened? >> you know, like everybody else, we didn't know right out. we figured she must have been abducted either for sexual

purposes by somebody on the street and then disposed of somewhere where they could never find the body or even, you know, worse, brought into the sex traffic and passed off somewhere. you know, that's our feeling on the thing that happened. because she would not have willingly, i don't think, walked off by herself and gone with somebody on her own. she was not that kind of girl as far as i was concerned. >> and i'm assuming, joseph, that you're absolutely delighted, as everybody is, that she is suddenly emerged. >> absolutely. absolutely. you know, everybody's just overjoyed. you know, the whole, you know, community i'm sure is feeling that way. >> joe kapastoshy, thank you, sir, former teacher of amanda berry. >> you're very welcome. >> with us from cleveland, pe pediatric psychologist, karen, and with us here, criminologist, kasie jordan. what kind of criminal experience

is it that involves three brothers, three young girls and sustaining this deception for ten years? >> well, it's rare, but we are seeing more and more of it. and you have to understand the motivation here is sexual. we don't call them hostages so much as sexually motivated captors and their captives. we have found actually the sexual dungeons where the women have been held for years and released. if they're above the age -- if they don't disappear when they're children, it really doesn't get much press. in the last few years we've had jaycee dugard. in austria, natasha campus and joseph fritzl and his daughter. how many more children have been abducted and are being held in dungeon situations? >> it's incredible. dr. landis, steven anthony said, i'm quoting him, these young ladies have provided us with the ultimate definition of survival and perseverance. i have to say, their suffering to me is unimaginable. how did they survive? >> i think that we've seen in

these other cases that some of these girls and these young women are so resilient and when they come out they feel such gratitude and for all the small things of life and they want to make their life worth something and go on and be, you know, something other people can look up to. >> dr. landis, these are children. where do they draw these resources of resilience and perseverance from? >> i think it was nice that they were together for a lot of this time, and the will to live just kicked in and they just kept going. hoping that sometime they would get their chance and there would be more to their lives than this. >> dr. jordan, this case, as you just said, sounds eerily similar to that of jaycee dugard who received $20 million because the parole agents who were supposed to be following phillip garrido failed to do so. the police allegedly visited this property on two separate occasions, went no further than front door. >> right. >> explain that to me. >> it's called the constitution. and the bottom line is,

everybody wants you to be able to break down doors and go inside and search, but the bottom line is, unless you have real probable cause, i mean, understand there's a huge role that stockholm syndrome plays in this, where we are constantly seeing cases where the captors had plenty of opportunity to run away, but did not. that may be found out in this particular case as well. i mean, natasha campush went skiing with her captor and never ran away and after ten years woke up and said, today is the day i run. the psychological brainwashing of the children and over the course of ten years cannot be underestimated. you think that they would run away, but the captor plans on and counts on the idea that no one will be suspicious. that they will never run away and that they feel guilty and are afraid enough that they will be theirs forever. >> i understand the focus on the individuals who are the captives, but a neighbor by the name of charles ramsey was involved in the rescue. another homeowner by the name of juan perez said this. "i thought the home was vacant.

i didn't even know that anyone lived there." now, i'd like you to take a listen to what the president said on sunday at ohio state university. take a listen to this. >> we don't always talk about this idea much these days. citizenship. let alone celebrate it. sometimes we see it as a virtue from another time, a distant past. one that's slipping away from a society that celebrates individual ambition above all else, a society awash in instant technology that empowers us to leverage skills and talents like never before, but just as easily allows us to retreat from the world. >> to what extent is this sympt symptomatic of a culture, we belong to fewer organizations, we relate to fewer people, we don't really engage with our neighbors. >> it's huge. the days are gone when neighbors move into each other and the entire community comes over with lasagna and introduces themselves. today, and i blame our

technology for really isolating us. people stay indoors. they don't want to know their neighbors. they feel if they get to meet them, then the neighbors will tell them to turn their music down. we live in our little cells with our computers and our phones and if something fishy is going on with neighbors, we turn a blind eye. we think it started in the 6 '60s with the bystander apathy. if you want to make a change, get to know your neighbors. go to pot luck suppers. get involved in the neighborhood watch. know the names. anything suspicious, call the police. better to be wrong than to find out later you had this situation going on right next door to you. >> dr. landis, do you agree this is symptomatic of a culture that is basically much more defined according to my own personal interests and disregarding of others? >> i think so, but i also think we have to think about eccentricity and think about privacy and weighing those as well. every time we see something that's a little bit off, like how much should we do as a society? and what about people's

personal, you know, rights to do what they need to do? so i think we have to look at that. >> casey jordan, karen landis, thank you very much for joining us. coming up, the president on syria, north korea, and cy. yes. stay with us. >> around the world, people are being swept up by korean culture, the korean wave. and as i've mentioned to president park, my daughters have taught me a pretty good gangnam style. constipated? yeah. mm. some laxatives like dulcolax can cause cramps. but phillips' caplets don't. they have magnesium. for effective relief of occasional constipation. thanks. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'. [ babies crying ] surprise -- your house was built on an ancient burial ground.

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we're going to go live now to a news conference where governor chris christie is addressing today's news that he recently underwent lap band

surgery. here he is. >> for a total of 40 minute i was asleep for 40 minutes. and no, the lieutenant governor was not in charge during those 40 minutes. i was in charge. and, you know, it's a ridiculous question. i didn't hear you. can you speak up? [ inaudible question ] no, listen, how was the surgery? it was pretty quick. it was 40 minutes. i, you know, as i said this morning, i went in at 7:00 in the morning. i was home by 5:00 in the afternoon. and, you know, i was a little sore for a couple days afterwards, but, you know, i had the surgery on saturday. i planned it so that i had a three-day weekend. and i was back to work on tuesday. i had a public event on the reconstruction of route 35. and then i did joe d.'s state of

the county that night and went over and did a fund-raiser for kevin o'toole and didn't get home until about 10:00. so it was pretty much okay. and, no, i want to make this really clear. i do not see myself, nor do i care to be a role model, in this regard for anyone. this is an intensely personal issue for people, and only people who have gone through being overweight and understand how that can dominate your thought every day, understand how intensely personal this is. and no matter what happens with me in this newest attempt for me to lose weight, whether i'm perceived to be successful or not, you know, the fact obvious the matter is everybody has to make these decisions for themselves. and i understand that as well as anybody, having gone through this for the last 20 years. so i'm not going to be one of those guys who's going to write a book or who's going to, like, you know, if i'm successful, you know, run around on tv shows and take a victory lap, look at me. i know how hard this is and i'm

not going to talk down to people who are going through this struggle like i am every day. i understand how difficult it is for them because i live it every day. and all i want to be is a role model for my children. i don't care to be a role model in this regard for anybody else. in other regards, maybe. in this regard, no. [ inaudible question ] do i feel differently in terms of how i feel physically? yeah, i mean, no. not -- i mean, not really. you know, i'm at the beginning stages of this thing. and so, no, i don't feel markedly different physically. no. and i'm -- and about how i feel about myself, i feel great about myself. you know? but i felt great about myself before, and i'll feel great about myself after. no matter how it goes. i mean, you know, that

doesn't -- this has never defined me in my own mind. it's been an element of my life, but it hasn't defined me or who i am. for me. i mean, maybe for other people, but certainly not for me. no, i don't feel differently, you know, at all in that regard about how i feel about myself. bad news for sheila and steve is, i love myself just as much as i did before. so it doesn't really make any -- >> we appear to have lost the signal there. that was chris christie, the governor of new jersey, typically robust response. saying he doesn't feel any different physically, he feels great about himself and he never allowed his weight to define him. giving a press conference just now in new jersey. we'll be right back in a moment. [ male announcer ] this is betsy.

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south carolina's mark sanford may indeed be on his way to a comeback much to the apparent annoyance of his own party. just witness the sullen faces of fellow republicans when asked whether they're ready to welcome him back. >> the voters of first district of south carolina will make their decision, and just like any one of us, or any of the 435 members of congress, we don't get to choose who they are. their electorate gets to decide who they are. >> not exactly a ringing endorsement there. indeed, it's not just mr. boehner who can't speak sanford's name. listen to how his fellow south caroli carolinan congressman trey gowdy fails to mention he must who will never be named. >> home state could have a new congressman by tonight. how enthusiastically would you welcome sanford? >> tim scott will be impossible to replace. he's one of the finest human beings i have ever met.

he will be very tough to replace. >> it's not an enthusiastic welcome. >> listen, tim is impossible to replace. i would not want to have to come on the heels of tim scott. >> can we not even speak his name? >> you could. i'm focused on benghazi. >> joining us now is joy reid, managing editor of the grio.com and dana milbank, political columnist for the "washington post." good afternoon to both of you. dana, even if sanford wins, he becomes the gop's voldimort, me who must not be named. >> i'm willing to name him over and over again. sanford, sanford, sanford. >> his fellow republicans cannot name him. >> exactly. that's because people like me, us in the the press, will get out the pom poms and cheer this on. it adds excitement and humor to capitol hill. unfortunately, that humor is going to be at the expense of sanford's republican caucus in the house. so, you know, it's as if mark

foley came back. and, you know, they just don't want this guy in their midst. it's an embarrassment for them. look, even if they feel he was railroaded, it was unfair, whatever, it's still an embarrassment for them. they'd like to be talking about things like the sequester, i suppose. >> joy, they seem incapable of mentioning his name. >> that tim scott is awesome. right? it will never end because every time he shows up to a function with his mistress/fiancemistres will be a reminder, the lady from the appalachian trail, you again. the hope for him comes in the form of david vitter. david vitter used the services of shall we say ladies of the evening. >> the d.c. madam. >> right. he has managed to still remain in the good graces of his party. maybe they can hang out together. >> well, maybe. last month mr. sanford as you know took to the street and held a detailed political discussion with a cardboard cutout of nancy pelosi. now, mr. sanford was asked about

this and he reflected on what happened just today. listen to this, gentlemen. sorry, ladies and gentlemen. >> i think there were two pillar points in this election, if indeed that proves to be the case. one of which me standing on the sidewalk with a nancy pelosi cutout having a debate we weren't able to have in the first district. >> i think sanford's going to need more cardboard cutouts. those of speaker boehner, eric cantor and others. because if he wins, i can't see many republicans wanting to have their picture taken with him. can you, dana? >> that was a priceless moment in american political history. >> it was. >> the only one that may exceed it is when sanford took out an ad in the local paper putting his personal cell phone number in there and comparing his campaign to that of the americans at the alamo and saying who's going to cross the line with me? of course, when he was caught with all these adultery issues, he said he had crossed the line. so it wasn't clear that the voters of south carolina were going to cross the line with

him. maybe they will tonight. it's extraordinary that any republican is having difficulty holding this seat, but it's possible there will be just enough people to hold their noses so sanford can hold the seat. >> joy, why does chris christie, one of the most popular elected officials in either party, seem to be paying such a high price both for his weight and for his work with the president? he was just saying he's never felt better at that press conference we carried. and yet he, as badly as a man who actually broke the seventh commandment. >> it goes to show you how much in the grip obama hatred is the republican is now. look at charlie crist, the former governor of florida and hugged barack obama and ended his career as a republican. barack obama is a boogeyman to the republican party. there's nothing you can do that's worse. not cheating on your wife, using taxpayer money to fly yourself down to her country. none of that is as bad as what

chris christie did in being nice to president obama. >> you believe that? >> i believe that's the singular motivating force of republicans. if you look this in district right now, people are voting or saying in polls, at least, republicans, they fill favor mark sanford. they don't like him. he's under water with both men and women, yet mostly men in the poll are saying they're going to stick with him because he's the conservative and they have this distaste for barack obama and the democrats. >> finally, dana, do you think mr. sanford could win? >> as i was saying, the shock is he could actually, any republican could actually lose -- >> this is, of course, mitt romney carried this by 18 pointed. >> it's completely lop shooside. the fact it's a close contest suggests how much they don't want this guy in office. expect the primary challengers will be there next time to try to undo this. in the meantime, we're all going to enjoy this. >> the reluctant republican party. joy reid, dana milbank, thank you both. stay with us. the day's top lines are coming right up. [ dylan ] this is one way to keep your underwear clean.

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vo: living better: that's the real walmart. from gun apalooza, to benghazi. this dam is about to break. >> if obama can't take our guns he'll make sure you can't put anything in them. >> regrouping, planning, preparing, organizing, even waiting for, quote, the next newtown. >> and scare you into gun apalooza. >> this year's theme was accessories. like bra holsters. fellows can brag about getting to second amendment. >> the mayor of new york wants to ban public displays of legal tobacco products. >> yes, yes, yes, i know how upset you get, sarah palin, when you're in new york and walk into

a bodega and can't find your philly blunts. >> whhe hasn't mentioned it to . >> hasn't mentioned it to me, either. >> may be the final week in the obama presidency. >> the dam is about to break on bengha benghazi. >> the media by in large has really dropped the ball on this. >> what were they trying to cover up? >> four dead americans. was it because of a protest or because of guys out for a walk one night who decided they'd go kill some americans? what difference at this point does it make? >> it makes a difference if we are purposefully being lied to to manipulate an election. >> leon panetta, susan rice, president obama, admiral mullen. would all of these people go to bat just to get president obama re-elected? >> why would they sacrifice their reputation? >> the media by in large has really dropped the ball on this. let's get right to our panel. joining us now is msnbc contributor james peterson of lehigh university. and by msnbc political analyst

jonathan alter, columnist for "bloomberg view" and author of "the center holds: obama and his enemies" which hits bookstores next month. professor peterson, republicans have really raised expectations for their congressional hearing tomorrow on benghazi. no less an authority than representative trey gowdy of south carolina says "they're going to be explosive." given how much we already know, how are the hearings supposed to live up to that kind of hype? >> i'm not sure the hearings will be able to live up to the hype. i can tell you, though, i think the hype is part of the political strategy here on part of those folk on the right who are very much interested in making sure this story or nonstory, if you will, continues to live and breathe. just from what's leaked from mr. hix's testimony, it doesn't seem to be condemning nor proof what their essential case is which is the obama administration is somehow covering up or obscuring some piece of information that will be explosive and unveil some miscarriage of justice in the benghazi attacks. >> i can't wait for that.

john, if there really is a cover-up, then you'd think that the white house is trying to hide something. but listen to what representative jason chaffetz says. >> it sounds like what you've described, it sounds like there's been a cover-up, but what were they trying to cover up? >> well, again, this is why we're fighting for the truth. >> explain that to me. >> well, it almost becomes like a dancing on the head of a pin, or something we learned about in philosophy class. how can you cover up nothing? you know? so what everybody's forgetting is that leon panetta testified to the events that gregory hicks is going to testify now to in february. he explained that tragic as it was, and nobody is minimizing how tragic these events were. the u.s. military felt like it didn't have time to get forces

from spain and france, spain and italy, into benghazi in time. now, the republicans would make it seem as if the calvary never arrived. actually, there were people there to extract our folks sm s shortly before the mortar attack and that caused more problems, you know, on the ground. it's not as if nobody ever came, but this notion that has taken root on the right that there was somehow an order to stand down, as if some nefarious anti-american person in the u.s. government wanted these people to die, that's the subtext of what they're saying, that some horrible person wanted to not help americans. >> wait, by implication, the president of the united states? >> this is really kind of disgu disgusting. >> right. professor, we heard recently from mike huckabee, the former arkansas governor turned fox news tv personality, i'll quote you what he says. "i believe that before it's all over" meaning the benghazi investigation, "this president will not fill out his term. i know this puts me on a limb,

but this is not minor. it wasn't minor when richard nixon lied to the american people." >> oh my god. >> professor, i just wonder how much this says about conservatives' desire to hurt the president as opposed to do anything that does right by those who were killed in benghazi? >> it certainly says much about the desire to politicize benghazi as a means of trying to directly attack president obama. i mean, that's like very wishful thinking that somehow these hearings tomorrow are going to unravel into the impeachment of president obama. in fact, that might be close to being insane. and, again, at the end of the day, there's a lot of monday morning quarterbacking going on here. there's a lot of 20/20 hindsight when you look at what leon panetta testified to in the beginning. obviously it's easy to look back now and say, we should have done this, should have sent them there. the estimation made in terms of the time for them to arrive to be effective could not anticipate in the moment there would even be a second attack. i'm not sure why this is a big

story right now, but at the end of the day, there's certainly those on the right trying to politicize this and make as much hay out of this situation as possible. >> john, we've mentioned this individual, gregory hix. he's a u.s.s diplomat who was in libya when the attacks happened. according to excerpts of testimony he's expected to give tomorrow, he'll say two of the four who were killed might have been saved if he'd been able to send in another strike team. now, leaving aside the fact that the pentagon obviously disputes this account, how does that constitute a conspiracy and a cover-up? >> well, it doesn't. but having said that, we should agree that having mr. hicks testify is completely br lly pr >> the secretary of state has already testified. >> of course, when the last time the republicans had control of the house, during the iraq war, they held no oversight hearings at all on anything that had to do with that war because it was

a republican administration. so, but if they want to perform their constitutional function and have these folks in to cross exam them, that is fine and nobody should be critical of that. the problem is they're trying to turn it into a circus and they actually have a movie poster of these hearings. so they're trying to get everybody in the press all riled up to think there's some big watergate-style scandal when there's no evidence of that so far. >> indeed. professor james peterson, jonathan alter, thank you both for joining us. stay with us. we'll have much more ahead. [ male announcer ] how do you get your bounce? i just stick the bar in the dryer like this, and it freshens my laundry for me so i don't have to think. wait. what was the question? [ male announcer ] how do you get your bounce? [ man ] stick it and forget it. a great cup of coffee should be easy as one, two... well, just one.

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the president made a joint appearance at the white house this afternoon with the new president of south korea. but it was his remarks on the crisis in syria with a glance to his predecessor's policy in the middle east that really caught the eye. take a listen. >> suggested even in your question a perceived crossing of a red line. the operative word there, i guess, steven, is proceed. a perceive. what i said is we have evidence there has been the use of chemical weapons inside of syria, but i don't make

decisions based on perceived and i can't organize international coalitions around perceive. we've tried that in the past, by the way, and it didn't work out well. >> no, it did not. meanwhile, secretary of state, john kerry, is in moscow today conducting talks with russia's foreign minister. moments ago, it was announced that russia and the united states will convene a new international conference aimed at establishing a plan for peaceful transition in syria. stay with us. we'll have much more in a moment.

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and before several thousand tennesseans discovered new jobs on volkswagen drive, their cfo and our banker met for lunch. together, we worked with a team that helped finance construction of the world's first leed platinum auto manufacturing plant. that's the impact of global connections. that's bank of america. for more new on the president's remarks in syria, we're joined by peter welsh, who just returned from his sixth trip from the region. good afternoon, sir. >> good afternoon. >> you visited i believe a refugee camp in turkey near the

border with syria. we've been seeing images of a million or so civilians leaving syria. bomb explosions within the country. but what did you actually see? what can you tell us? >> well, the refugee camp is on the turkish/syrian border. there are about 13,000 people there. turkey has been very generous and is probably one of the best refugee camps. the fact is, it's heartbreaking. you're seeing families where their husbands or sons or brothers are left behind in syria or they're dead. we saw a lot of kids who had wicked burn injuries from having been the victims of the firing by the assad regime, and you just are listening to folks who are imploring us to find some way to get them back to their country. it's a very heartbreaking scene. this is 13,000 people and this is literally millions of syrians who are refugees in turkey, lebanon, jordan, or internally

displacedsyria. it's a very grim humantarian scene. >> in light of what you've seen, do you think this discussion about a red line has actually allowed assad to do things to over 70,000, of course, 70,000 dead, many thousands injured. that in a sense the humanitarian need in syria demanded action sooner? >> well, you know, the humanitarian need is great, and every impulse that any of us have is to try to respond and stop this slaughter. the dilemma is, it's very difficult on a practical level to figure out what you can do that, in fact, will make the situation better as opposed to worse. you know, we can't have troops on the ground there in syria. there are tribal rivalries that go back decades. there's a certain unity and opposition to bring down assad. but you've got sunni, shia,

christians, alowite, kurds. many of those are fighting to bring assad down. once assad goes, they're going to turn the guns on each other and settle scores. so the idea of arming rebels is very difficult to figure out who are the so-called good rebels. and there are enormous problems with the implementation of a no-fly zone which would require very extensive bombing by the u.s. to bring out the anti-aircraft defenses and in all likelihood would result in civilian casualties and run the risk of americanizing what is a very bitter civil war. >> when the president made it clear today he's not going to be rushed into syria in the way, of course, president bush was and dick cheney rushed into iraq, do you support the president's stance? >> well, i do. because -- >> notwithstanding the suffering you see? >> here's why i do. it's not as though the need to do something creates the ability to do something that's effective. you know, the red line we should

have is what's in our national security interest. and there's a lot of armchair generals here who are suggesting that we can go in there and take some definitive military action. and it often is the same people who gave us the good news that we'd have no problem in iraq and the nation building enterprise in afghanistan would work out fine. so in fact, the president's caution makes sense here. i mean, anything we can do to provide humanitarian assistance we clearly should do. any negotiations we can be engaged in, we should be involved in. but the actual step into no-fly zone or even arming the rebels is fraught with a lot of complications that when we wake up the morning after i think we ha have to be seriously considered. >> you know secretary of state john kerry is in moscow today. he's trying to get the russians to play a constructive role within the syrian crisis. there's proposal for some talks, very soon, involving the

russians and europeans. is it too late, though? >> no. look, we don't know, i mean, this is a horrendous civil war in syria. and you've got -- that country is riven with tribal -- that assad has put the lid on through oppression. once the lid comes off, there's not peace and tranquility among those groups that will be at each other o's threats. anything we can do diplomatically, humanitarian, we should do. if you had the russians playing a constructive role, that would help enormously. because in the end the syrians are going to have to resolve this, and if this is part of a big power chess game, it's just going to make that stability outcome much more difficult. >> congressman peter welch. i know you rushed to the camera. thank you, sir, for joining us. >> thank you. >> thank you for watching this afternoon. chris matthews and "hardball" is right next.

target, benghazi. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. there have been a raft of charges that fit under the heading, benghazi. the sheer volume of them allows the one making the charge to maintain the offensive. it allows people to take glancing shots at this administration and possibly a future administration without coming up with a sharp indictment that merits hard public debate. so to avoid that confusion, i'm going to divide the charge into four periods. one, events before the benghazi facility came under attack. two, events occurring when the benghazi facility first came under attack. third, events occng