like 150 years old. >> 105. >> her secret she claims is she eats a lot of bacon every day. >> i love pearl. what did you learn? >> it's ve day. hinge of the century. amazing alleyed effort. >> if it's way too early, what time is it, joe? >> "morning joe." >> well, what time is it now? >> didn't get the joke yet? coming up next, we've got chuck todd. with "the daily rundown." see you tomorrow. a new poll shows chris christie coasting to a new term as governor, but hurting for some home state health if he's got his eyes on 2016. it's a different story in virginia.

new numbers also, a good 2016 news for hillary clinton in new jersey, but she's back in the spotlight as the house holds another hearing and the latest on syria and bob corker. and the first lady comments on the cleveland kidnapping and how the horrors facing those families on every turn. >> good morning from new york. it's wednesday, may 8th, 2013 and this is "the daily rundown." happy nurses week. now, here's chuck todd. >> i love it. the i love the nursing students. thanks to the students and faculty. keeping up our nurses week theme, we have very busy show ahead. we've got those brand new poll numbers here. live to cleveland for the latest on the three women found alive after a decade of captivity and

developing news right now on that story. a cleveland police chief tells nbc news that investigators are talking to the three suspects this morning and expect to file charges today. investigators have also interviewed two of the three victims in cleveland and we're learning more about what think went through during those ten years in captivity. >> there have been reports that the women were physically bound. that there may have been chains inside that home. can you confirm that? >> we have confirmed that. we have confirmation that they were bound and there was chains and ropes in the home. >> we're going to go live to cleveland for the latest in a few minutes including what is turning into a focus on what did the cleveland police department not do over the last decade when it comes to policing this neighborhood. but right now, let's get to our first reads of the morning. in politics, mark sanford's political career has had more ups and downs than the appalachain trail.

now, he's heading for washington after more hollywood drama than washington can make up and it's likely to have no impact whatsoever. he beat elizabeth colbert busch and declared himself the comeback kid. >> some guy came up to me the other day and said you look a lot like. >> alana: but i had deficiencies that are well chronicled as a candidate. i just wanted to acknowledge a god, not just of second chances, but third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth chances. >> the biggest take away is that in today's political climate -- as long as you belong to the right political party in your state or district, you still have a good chance at winning. colbert busch needed right wing

independents and didn't get enough of them. >> wow, we gave it a heck of a fight, didn't we? and we were all in it together, so i'm just so proud to be with you tonight. >> the more the race became nationalized, the more she lost her independent credibility. meanwhile, sanford chose not to ignore the elephant in the room. he confronted reporters about his problem and that strategy may have workeded out for him. he now comes to congress owing nobody. he has a bully pulpit if he wants to use it. on the "today" show this morning, he talked about how he wants to be received in washington by his party this time around. >> democrats took shots at you. your own party walked away from you in terms of support for your campaign, so who are your friends? >> my friends, the voters who sent me up last night. you know, the taxpayers of the

first congressional district and i'll have plenty of friends in washington, d.c. you know, i look forward to working where there's republicans, democrats, independents, you name it. >> it's actually something politicians always dream of. freedom where they owe nobody. it's t minus and counting before the clock runs out. three budgets have been introduced. two have passed. none are going anywhere. so how does the real negotiating process begin? i asked that question to budget chairs patty murray, republican congressman paul ryan, the director of the national economic counsel chairman, gene sperling. >> unfortunately at this point, the republicans are objecting to us going to conference, so i find myself in a very difficult position. you're in a ez cloed room and

there's two of you, you're not going to get a deal. >> i don't think we're going to get a grand bargain. that implies you fix the problem, but when you have the majority in washington unwilling to embrace the kinds of reforms that make medicare solvent, i don't see a grand bargain happening. >> if you look at what the president has done, he has put forward two of their explicit requests. >> if we're going to ping-pong game here, you've done your shot. cpi, they owe you something in return. >> i think that some of them re recognize that to some degree, the ball is in their court. >> debt ceiling looks like september, october. is it going to be a crisis when it comes up and if so, is it going to be needed at the trigger to force the talks? >> yes. >> so, it is going to be a crisis and it's needed. >> yes. >> every single one of the half dozen proposals that have bor d , -- because the american people

do not like to extend the debt limit. >> big take away are this. republicans would prefer to negotiate with the president. debt ceilings are going to be the trigger. that was rob portman making the debt ceiling threat, not somebody more idea logical. there's no incentive for republicans to make a deal with a weaker hand. it may be the last window the white house has. republicans of the house are going to run into a pr problem if they don't even pretend they want to negotiate with snalt democrats. they have refused to name their -- to the conference committee to begin their process of hammering out a real deal. yesterday, congressman ryan had an odd explanation as to why they're not doing that. >> when does the clock start? >> so, we do want to go to conference, but when we have a good chance of getting something done. the president should get create

for putting chain cpi out there. wasn't in our budget, wasn't in patty's budget. if we go to congress early, i can guarantee you'll see votes on the house floor prior to going to conference where nobody votes and it makes it that much harder to be part of the final agreement. >> what's paul ryan talking about? republicans are afraid that house democrats will be able to bring up poison pill votes. they're not binding, but during the conference process, the minority party is able to introduce these nonbinding resolutions, but they've given the senate democrats higher ground now. bottom line, it's may. if negotiations are going to occur, they need to start taking place soon. those talks really haven't begun. finally, six months before election day 2013, the big governors races that dominate 2013. in virginia, republicans are

nearly dead even among registered voters. 16% of voters undecided, but digging deeper, chuch nelly has an advantage. up by three points among likely voters. and 53% of those voters who back him say they strongly support his campaign. virginia governor bob mcdonald, the outgoing republican remains one of the most popular governors in the country. that's despite a developing donor scandal and a reported fbi investigation into their ties. 51% approve of his job performance. president obama's approval rating sits above the 50% mark as well. moving to new jersey, the governor's race is a blowout. chris christie is crushing barbara bono. 66% of men and ready for this?

64% of independents, 56% of women and a full 42% of obama voters. christie's pretty popular. 69% of voters approve of how he's handling his job at governor. 56% approve of the president's job performance. mark murray, nbc's senior political editor. lee, let me start with you. the virginia electorate. here we are five months out. what was most striking to you over all in sort of the ultimate, one of the ultimate three and four most important swing states in the country. it looked like a swing state in the country, didn't it? >> absolutely. virginia is the pivotal state, then we look at the governor's race for that same kind of indication of what's going on in the electorate and right now, we're seeing two not particularly popular, nor well-known candidates. kuch nelly has some built in advantages because he is the attorney general. he's getting 51% in numbers.

but by no means has close to sale. this is a very, very close race. in some ways, it's a consultants dream. there's two candidates waiting to be defined. we'll wait and see which campaign can find the other. i think this is a still still to develop. we're so used to five months out, and you're used to sort of feeling as if you know in a big race like this, everything that's going on, but it is surprising how undefined this race is. it's got a lot of press release chatter. it's got a lot of twitter chatter, but the voters in virginia don't seem to know a lot. >> voters don't know and this is a governor's race after presidential election, the electorate is always a lot smaller and so, one of the thipgs that really struck me is how ken has the intensity advantage and so if you looked at all the numbers, this is neck and neck. you'd rather beat ken in this poll and intensity seems to matter in off years more than presidential elections.

the romney campaign, a similar poll saying gosh, we had the intensity advantage. that's less when everyone's t n turning out, but more of a factor in an off year election. >> it's really important to see where the needle is in terms of party. you know, four years ago, it was plus republican in the state. four points and the presidential election, it was plus seven. when we look at the most probable electorate, it's dead even, so keep an eye on that needle. >> a very important point there. what's interesting is how u both chris christie and bob mcconnell are overperforming. the republican party as underwater they've been, the same way in virginia and new jersey, but it doesn't touch the two republican governors. >> christie's received a lot of attention for bucking his party. and you see why he's doing it. the republican party is upside down in new jersey, yet christie's getting votes from independents. mcdonnell also is doing very

well. but the most striking thing right now, ken is doing much better than his party's performance in virginia and that's what the campaign has to improve on to win this race. >> looking at 2016, they're carbon copies, right? majority of voters don't want their governor, but home state voters are always tough on their own. that's not a surprise there. but hillary clinton, double digit leads, joe biden, deficits. >> you're getting no big send off for either of these two very popular governors this their own states for 2016, especially when you match them up against hillary clinton, who has a double digit lead and is over 50% against both of them. so hillary clinton is a very different hillary clinton than she was 20 years ago as first lady and maybe even as a senator from new york. the last chapter in her has been secretary of state and she's ri riding that right now. we'll see where that one goes. but no send off from the local folks for either of these two

governors who are very popular, but not necessarily for 2016. >> not surprising she's ahead in new jersey, but having a double digit lead. very surprising. lee, mark, we've got a lot more on this poll, exclusive polls today. we're going to do a deeper dive in fact on this and the state of play in both governor's races. we have that on our website and we'll also have that later in the show, but up next, obama on the record. president speaks out on the situation in syria and the alarming rise of sexual assaults in the military. plus, the controversy on the u.s. consulate in benghazi. that will be front and center today on capitol hill. senator bob corker, he joins us next to talk about all of those issues, but first, a look ahead at today's politics planner. as you can see here, president, i believe he dined with some house democrats tonight. all part of the outreach effort to congress. and make sure democrats aren't

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we want to make sure that we have the best analysis possible. we want to make sure that we are acting deliberately, but i would just point out that there have been several instances during the course of my presidency where i said i was going to do something and it ended up g getting done. whether it was bin laden or gadhafi, when we say we're taking a position, i would think at this point, the international

community has a pretty good sense we typically follow through on our commitments. >> president obama defending the red line comments and also making it clear he's not going to be rushed to do a decision about the next movement in syria. secretary of state john kerry was in moscow tuesday and announced plans for an international conference on syria that could take place possibly within weeks. >> we have agreed to use our good offices, both of us, to bring both sides to the table working with our other coalition partners and other allies to bring both sides to the table in partnership with and concern for foreign countries that have committed themselves to helping the syrians find a political solution. >> with me now is tennessee senator, bob corker, the top republican on the foreign relations committee. senator corker, good morning to

you. >> morning, chuck. >> i want to start with what you heard secretary kerry announce, that russia and the united states would hold a joint conference about what to do about assad. is that a correct next step? >> i think it's a positive development. there's no question that russia's support of assad is most important at present and our desire to see assad leave, also have a secular moderate group in charge when he leaves. we need to be focusing on the day after. i think it's a good development and i'm happy to see it take place. >> and your reaction to the president's comments yesterday, where he says the facts about the chemical weapons are not yet known, so therefore, you've got to wait before deciding whether his red line and chemical weapons was crossed. do you accept the president's explanation on that? >> i think it's fine to be cautious and understand the chain of custody, how widespread

it was utilized. on the other hand, i think we need to press ahead and move quickly to change the balance on the ground. i wrote an op-ed "the new york times" a couple of weeks ago talking about the fact that it's now the second war that's far more important to our national interest. assad was important, but it's very important to our nation that some of these extremist groups represented by al nusra, affiliated with al-qaeda, don't end up in control of the country, so we've got to help the more moderate groups and i do think we will be arming them soon. i think also though these moderate, secular, opposition groups which are not good fighters, not good at delivering humanitarian aid, and we need to help them with that, but they need to be reaching out to the population that supports assad. if russia sees that happening, we have a much better chance of getting them more actively involved with us.

>> i want to switch gears a little bit to benghazi in this respect. the house hearing today seems to be, it's getting caught up in washington politics. that's not surprising. that happens, but i want to play for you something lindsey graham just said about an hour ago on "morning joe" about what he thinks should thinks shoeb the focus of the benghazi investigation. >> i think a foreign policy gone wrong here. syria, libya, egypt. i think the greater story is that the light footprint approach to the mideast in a time of turmoil is not working. >> you think there's a misplaced focus and it may explain what's going on with syria, that the real question is what was the policy in libya when we got rid of gadhafi, did he not have a plan in place to rebuild that country and is that having an m impact on syria policy. >> i think the thing that jumps

out at you, it's a country that isn't really being governed. militias control most of the country. training, helping more with security, i don't want to see boots on the ground in syria. that's not the kind of footprint i want to see happening. but i do think as i mention eed earler, we need to be more involved in helping the secular opposition groups be trained and the arming now is more symbolic, but there's no question that look, in libya, we got involved. i thought that was question bable. i really did, but we got involved, took gadhafi out. i think it sent signals to a lot f people about doing away with weapons of mass destruction, which is a whole other topic, but then we sort of left it there. it's a country that you know, it's remarkable that the citizens are even functioning in a normal way because the government is not.

so i do think there's a role for us to play in helping shape the feature. again, not military boots on the ground, but we've got to help them i involve and i don't think we've done near enough in syria at present. i think we're doing more than people raeealize, but it's stil not enough. i'm not even for the air issues people are talking about, but we've got to help these areas a little more. we can't just leave them in a vacuum because the more extremist groups take over. >> what is the unanswered question that you feel like you want out of these meetings? >> i've got so much on this end of the building that i really hadn't focused much on the house. there were four individuals involved. they've been reprimanded. they're sitting at home with full pay. there are four state department officials that candidly, there's been no accountability and i

just don't think it bodes well to make mistakes and candidly mistakes that cost people's lives an there's nothing happening. i think that's an issue that does need to get resolved. if they were, why are they still on the payroll? other than that, i've been able to read all the cables. i've seen the films. i feel like i know what happened in benghazi. i'm fairly satisfied, but look, the house wants to have hearings, i hope they're done in a respectful way and hopefully it will shed some light on what happened. >> i wanted to get your reaction to the air force chief of staff was testifying yesterday on this issue of the rising number of sexual assaults that have been taking place in the military and he blamed it on a hook up culture. partially blamed it. didn't blame it all, but partially on a hook up culture. do you agree? >> i didn't see that.

i had so many other things happening yesterday. i don't know that i can even comment. i can tell you this, that you know, that type of incident is despicable. look, we are so proud of our professional military, things like this though really hurt those people who represent us so well across the world and hopefully, we'll do those things very quickly to ensure this doesn't, this doesn't happen again. >> are you upset that the president didn't arrange for you to get a hole in one? >> you know, saxby actually did it on his own. so there wasn't someone running down there making it happen. it was a great day. the president was easy to be around and i really was glad to be with him. >> bob corker, republican from tennessee. senator, good to see you. thanks for coming in. coming up, it's a story of survival. some amazing new details in the investigation into how those three cleveland women survived

being held captive for a decade just miles away from where they disappeared. michelle obama spoke out. but first, when mark sanford runs to congress, how many members of that famous class of '94 house republican will still be back serving in the u.s. house? first person to tweet the correct answer gets the on air shout out. be right back. tdd: 1-800-345-2550 searching for a bank designed for investors like you? tdd: 1-800-345-2550 schwab bank was built with tdd: 1-800-345-2550 all the value and convenience investors want. tdd: 1-800-345-2550 like no atm fees, worldwide. tdd: 1-800-345-2550 and no nuisance fees. tdd: 1-800-345-2550 plus deposit checks with mobile deposit, tdd: 1-800-345-2550 and manage your cash and investments tdd: 1-800-345-2550 with schwab's mobile app. tdd: 1-800-345-2550 no wonder schwab bank has grown to over 70 billion in assets. tdd: 1-800-345-2550 so if you're looking for a bank that's in your corner, tdd: 1-800-345-2550 not just on the corner, tdd: 1-800-345-2550 call, click or visit to start banking with schwab bank today.

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nightmare to lose a child in any way, shape or form, but i am just happy for these families that they found their daughters and that they are alive and safe. >> moments ago, we heard from a family member. >> the rest of us, you know, are suffering through this tragedy and hearing all of this about members of our family and we're devastated and again, just keep in mind that these three people do not, they do not make this family. they do not define this family. >> ron allen is live for us in cleveland, ohio with the latest and it seems there is a lot of focus being placed on the cleveland police department and wondering how they could have missed all what apparently were a lot more clues of something strange going on over the years.

>> to be fair, there are clues that look a lot more vivid in hindsight, knowing what was going on now and the police department is adamant they only had two calls in that neighborhood during the past ten years or so. one before the girls disappeared and two, when they were investigating ariel castro, one of the men in custody, an incident involving his schoolbus, turned out to be an incident. there are neighbors, we talked to people who said they heard things, screams. one woman told us she saw a woman in the window with a child banging and screaming to get out. there are neighbors who saw women in the backyard, naked on leashes. that sort of crazy thing. police say they were never called about anything like that, so there is this big disconnect and yes, the police are trying to do a review. another issue is the 911 call taker who was on the phone with amanda berry when she got out of

the house. her actions are being scrutinized as well. to see if proper procedures were being carried out, especially to see if she stayed on the phone long enough with the call you are. >> we expect charges today? >> we don't know. they have a 48-hour window to file, which brings us to about 6:00 or later this evening. the police chief and others have said they're probably going to bring chashlged today. we don't know if all three brothers will be charged. the other two were unclear what will happen to them or won't happen with them, but yes, we're expecting some charges to be filed this afternoon. >> all right. ron allen in cleveland. thanks very much. up next, the deep dive is is back into our brand new exclusive nbc news marist polls, races of 2013, plus chris christie opens up about his weight loss surgery. [ female announcer ] love.

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the only two governors races this fall, virginia and new jersey. we get to overcover them and here's what we found in virginia. mccall has a narrow lead over cuccinelli. check out the partisan divide. independents, dead even. among women, up 16 points. president obama won women in virginia by nine last fall. among men, up 15. among registered voters, he leads on who do you trust to do

best for your state? plus six. understands your problems, plus four. handling social issues, a two-point lead. on to new jersey, it's all chris christie, dominating the race against barbara buono. christie is 94% of republicans while just a slim majority of democrats back buono. 51% independents go forchr christie. 81% approve of his hurricane efforts. joining us now, larry -- and our expert on new jersey here is the host of msnbc's new weekend show, up, with steve kornacki. gentlemen, hello to woet of you. >> hi. >> larry, i want to start with you. i think the most amazing thing you learned from our poll is essentially the voters in virginia are screaming they want

the status quo. the question is which candidate is going to promise more of the same? >> yeah, well, of course, the status quo depends which status quo. is it the national status quo, virginia voted for obama twice or the state status quo. and chuck, that's what the election's all about. forget about the numbers. it's structural. in a presidential race, the two that obama won, you had over 70% of the voters turning out in virginia. that means a big influx of young people and minorities. they're going to vote democratic in this moderate purple state. in a state race though like 2009, we dropped 26 percentage points. that's a heavily republican sample. that's why your likely voter pool and earlier, "the

washington post" voter pool showed cuccinelli winning. >> steve, in new jersey, none of these numbers were a surprise to you, but the biggest one is that so many democrats are on board of christie. 42% of obama voters an barbara buono only getting 51% of all the democratic vote. >> when they set the bar in terms of where they think this ends up, it's closer to ten points, maybe even high single digits. the idea that democrats will kind of come home in this thing, i'll tell you one thing that maybe is interesting here, is an underappreciat underappreciat underappreciat underappreciated aspect, he's teamed up with the democrats of south jersey. the number one democratic power broker in the state is from south jersey and that's sort of been how christie has been able to work through a democratic

legislature to accomplish big things. the most vulnerable democratic seat in the state senate are actually in south jersey. those are the most marginal seats. if christie wins with a big landslide this year, it could hurt the democrats that have been most helpful for him. >> i leave it to you to create an interesting little puzzle there. lar larry, back to virginia. we matched up mcdonnell and mcauliffe. he would be up double digits. are you surprised that scandal if you will, whatever you want to call it about the big donor, that had gave money to help pay for his daughter's wedding, doesn't seem to have impacted his poll numbers whatsoever. >> not at all because you know, chuck, we always assume incorrectly that voters are payinging attention. most people have lives. they have real lives.

they do not follow the headlines on a daily basis. i don't think most virginians know this is happening. now, the it will play out over a number of months. either the fbi will find something or it will not. tha that will affect the final result. the guys governing now for three years. he's had ups and down, a big success in transportation, disappointmen disappointments. people are viewing him over a long period of time. that's why it hasn't had that much of an impact yet. >> steve kornacki, 50% of republicans say they don't want christie to run for president. surprising? >> a little bit, but what's most interesting to me, the chris christie we're seeing in 2013, only focused on 2013 and sort of moving to the middle, let's see what he looks like next year, how republicans respond to that.

>> let's see what the base of the party thinks in a place like iowa and south carolina. larry, steve, my two experts, virginia and new jersey, thank you, guys. don't miss of course up with steve kornacki every saturday and sunday. coming up, hump day gaggle, but first, white house soup of the day. black eyed pea and smoked turkey. healthier than the smoked ham. we'll be right back. change makes people nervous.

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let reporters put a tail on him. my old friend did just that and guess what? they found out he was having an affair. we asked when mark sanford returns to congress, how many class of 1994 house members will be serving. the answer is 11. there had been seven members of the '94 freshman class who have served continually since then. three had a break in service, but now are back in congress and sanford will make number 11 and the number four to come back from that class of '94 thanks to our friend for that one and congr congratulations to today's winner. we've got a political trivia question for us, e-mail us. we'll be right back.

leaders from capitol hill about the chances of a grand bargain. here is a recent dinner the president had. >> what impressed me the most is republicans and democrats alike in that room and we run the range liberal to very conservative were very serious about the budget issue. in that room almost to a person i think said i'm willing to take a tough vote if everyone does. that gives me hope. i think we put the 20 women into a room we could come out with a deal. >> let's bring in our wednesday gaggle. washington bureau chief of "usa today." susan paige, the big question i have been wondering is when do the budget talks begin.

ryan and murray are not talking. we know house republicans in the white house aren't talking. the only conversation taking place is senate republicans and the president. >> i don't see how the grand bargain budget talks get started. >> which means it is over. >> the washington post had an interesting story about easing pressure on the deficit because the economy is doing a little better mostly, tax revenues are higher meaning there won't be a debt ceiling debate in may, that takes all the pressure off. what we know from members of congress and the budget is the tough deals only get made when there is a gun to their head. >> that was the case portman made. he said we are going to use the debt ceiling to force the conversation. it was surprising to me coming from portman. >> i had thought that a lot of

republicans were of the view that we should move away from a crisis atmosphere and these sorts of grand bargains and all of that drama and towards regular order. but that does seem to be petering out. i think the fundamental reason isn't that the deficit is fallen but that the parties are too far apart and the bargain entails things that are unpopular. >> you get the sense that republicans, one reason why paul ryan and murray aren't getting together because republicans look at the president's budget and think that is a better deal. >> you have to start somewhere. i think really the issue is that republicans the senate has to pass something and they did. now we need to sign. republicans basically at the end of the day do not want to compromise. they don't want to move at all from where they are. that is the bottom line there. >> do you think that this issue that they are worried about the idea that there will be

democratic poison pill house resolutions all the time should house democrats take that off the table to force a conference to begin? >> i don't know about that. i just feel like they are throwing up every excuse and every road block in the book like this is the way things are normally done and it smells suspicious that we are not going to do this even though we have been begging the senate for months to do this. >> mark sanford is back. did we learn in this race? >> we learned that voters hate nancy pelosi more than they trust sanford. i don't think there are lessons that apply anywhere else with this race and we should not be stunned that a republican managed to win a heavily republican district. >> a bunch of them are walking

away. he has another court hearing that has to do with this trespassing incident that takes place right before he gets sworn in. this is all of the stuff that house republicans were hoping to avoid. >> this is bad news for political spouses in general. >> they are the losers here. >> sanford won without support from the national party. he is already independent minded. >> republicans are taking away the one lesson which is they can make this about nancy pelosi in fear of one party government as a way to save the house. >> mitt romney won that district. mitt romney. so i am not surprised. >> you think they are going to try this all around? >> i think they will try. i don't think you can -- >> shameless plug to my cousin in california. >> scoop, the memoir.

the more compelling of the book story of covering the civil rights movement. he was a poor kid from alabama who wrote some of the most powerful books written. >> my colleague at the website has a horrifying story about the florida abortion industry. it terms out there are more gosnel's operating than we thought. that's it for this edition of "the daily run down". we will have the latest on the house benghazi hearing. tomorrow a deep dive for the search of senators. why are parties having such a hard time finding and keeping senators these days. coming up next, chris jansing. in her new volkswagen... before her passat had passed 30 different inspection tests, and before several thousand tennesseans discovered new jobs on volkswagen drive, their cfo and our banker met for lunch.

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take a look at the suspects. police say 52-year-old ariel castro was accused of severely beating his ex wife. police confirmed the heroing detail. >> we have confirmation that they were bound and there were chains and hopes in the home. >> these stories have shocked the nation, the community and even the suspect's family. >> this family is suffering a great sadness to know that these girls have suffered at the hands of family members of ours. and we would certainly like to say to those three young women that we are so sorry for everything that they had to endure. >> today the men will be questioned by investigators and we expect them to be formally charged. police have released the 911 call from charles ramsey who