> kidnapped. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start with this. if you see something, say something. when i hear that admonition i get the point. if you see someone put down a backpack at an airport and head off into the distance you're supposed to tell someone. you're supposed to get out of your comfort zone and do your duty. well, okay. you hear that a naked woman was seen crawling around in the backyard by somebody nearby on a dog leash. i call that seeing something. wouldn't you? if you saw it once and heard about it, someone seeing it, would you move on to other interests in your life? i don't have to worry about that. i have new things on my mind. if you saw a woman pounding on a window or door, a baby in her

arms, desperate to escape, would you drop it? there's something here that doesn't quite add up. maybe it does to a world where people don't say something if they see something. at any moment cleveland police are now supposed to hold a news conference on the abductions out there. when that happens, we'll bring it to you live. could be any minute now. also we'll be covering the other big story of the day, bigger for politics, of course, the house republicans' effort to -- president obama and perhaps, hillary clinton, for the events very murky now in mbenbenghazi. first clint van zandt and nbc's craig melvin also joins us direct from cleveland. i want to start with clint withmy questions. there we go with melvin -- craig. you're there. craig, let me ask you about this. what do we expect to happen in the next few minutes with this police statement? >> reporter: two things, first of all, chris. we expect, again, expect that formal charges will be announced. kidnapping and rape being the primary charges. at this point it's not clear

whether all three of the castro brothers will face the same charges. but we do expect that the 52-year-old ariel castro, again, the allege ed mastermind, if yo will, alleged ring leader, he's be charged with kidnapping and rape. a few minutes ago we did just get a copy of the police department. we have not had a chance to sift through that report. in that report we're also expecting to get more details about precisely how these three women were captured, how they managed -- how the three men managed to keep them inside that house. essentially off the grid for a decade. and we also should hear a little bit more about unfortunately some of the grisly details. grisly details about what went on inside the house. chris, one more thing. i want to call your attention to this first house behind me. the investigation here had been centered on that third house. that's where the three women

were being held. all the sudden about an hour and a half ago we started seeing the fbi's evidence response team go in and out of this first house. we saw a k-9 dog. the evidence response team, they were wearing those white clean suits as well. we haven't seen them bring anything out of the house. but they've been going in and out of that house for about the last hour. we are still trying to find out precisely what the relationship is between that house and the other house. we have heard from a number of folks here that ariel castro may have, may have also owned this house in addition to that third house. >> i see. >> again, that's information we're trying to track downright now. again, that's the latest from the scene. had been quiet up until about an hour and a half ago when the fbi's emergency -- or the evidence response team showed up. >> hang in there, craig. today we're also getting new details of the horrific deal endured by the women themselves held captive in cleveland. police chief michael mcgrath

described part of it. let's listen to the gori details here. >> we have confirmation that they were bound and there was chains and ropes in the home. >> bound with chains and ropes, apparently, in what has been called a dunchen. sources familiar with the investigation say the vikt ups have told them of rapes, multiple pregnancies, some miscarriages. for ten years the three women did not even see any other adults. today amanda berry returned home to her sister's house. after reports amanda herself might speak her sister addressed reporters. >> we appreciate all you have done for us throughout the past ten years. please respect our privacy until we are ready to make our statements. and thank you. >> poor girl. anyway, gina dejesus also returned to her house earlier today. she was one of the three captives. you can see her there in that lime hoodie. let me go to clint van zandt for some explanations. perhaps that go beyond the actual details. clint, what did you make of these bystanders, these men in the street, women in the street saying, oh, yeah, i saw a naked

woman or my daughter saw a naked woman crawling around with a dog leash on her in the backyard. oh, i called the police. >> yeah. >> you wouldn't call them once. if nothing happened you'd call them again and again. you'd say, wait a minute. i don't want that going on in my neighborhood. that's a felony criminal act. it's obviously horrendous. the other one about the woman desperately banging on the front door with a baby in her arms, let me out of here. you'd see that once, you'd never forget it. you wouldn't just call the cops, say duty done, i'll move on and go get some, i don't know, a cup of coffee and forget about it, would you? >> no. a couple of issues, chris. number one, if i was an fbi agent and called to a scene like that, somebody said they saw a woman and a baby pounding on a window, somebody saw a woman naked with a dog leash, i'd go through that door. i mean, one way or the other, the door would go down. i would be on the other side of the door. if i had to i'd buy the owner a door later. one way or the other, i'd satisfy myself what was going on in that house. now, we've got three

possibilities. one is the patrol car drove by. they told the officer. he or she went up, knocked on the door, thought, the people don't know what they're talking about, bad move, and drove away. number two, the police didn't record that which would be a horrible missite. number three, chris, there are people who want to do the right thing. they wish they would have called. they wish they would have seen something. sometimes wishing becomes reality. somewhere on that continuum is what happened in this case. >> do you know -- do you know enough -- we're getting it right now, the police report. here it is. >> for the past 47 hours, cleveland police and our partners at the federal bureau of investigation have been involved in an extremely intense investigation into the incident, the captivity, and the kidnapping of amanda berry, gina dejesus and michele knight. first of all, certainly on

behalf of all of us who live and work and all of us who care about life, we can't say how grateful we are that they've been returned to us and that they are on their road to regaining their own personal lives. i would encourage everyone, including the media here, of course, to give them a little space and time to heal and begin the process to recover from what all of us recognize as a very traumatic incident. over the past two days, our goal has been to gather as much evidence and understand the facts as much as we can. certainly at this point in the investigation, we don't have answers to all the questions that we have. the cleveland office and the federal bureau of investigation and our partners from washington have completed the search of the seymour avenue crime scene and collected those evidencery items they were are necessary to proceed through the criminal proceedings. we will not, today, however, discuss the results of the search or the evidence that was seized at the crime scene.

i'm joined this afternoon by city of cleveland prosecutor victor perez, special agent in charge of the cleveland officer, the fbi's steve anthony, chief of police michael mcgrath, and deputy chief of police ed tomba. prosecutor perez will provide a synopsis of his review that was presented to him for consideration and his decision following the decision and the comments by prosecutor perez, deputy chief of police ed tomba will respond to those questions for which he can at this point answer. of course, as i know you have heard this before, but i'd like to share it one last time, at least for today, that this is an ongoing investigation. and there is evidence that cannot be disclosed at this time. but i know our law enforcement officials will do the best they can to provide accurate information to the extent possible. ladies and gentlemen, i'd like

to introduce city of cleveland prosecutor victor perez. >> thank you. good afternoon, everyone. my name is victor perez, and i am the chief assistant prosecutor for the city of cleveland. first and foremost, i believe i speak for everyone in our city that we are happy that michele, gina and amanda are safe and healthy. second, i would like to thank the citizens that came to amanda's immediate assistance when she was trying to escape that led to the eventual discovery of michele and gina. i would also like to commend the members of the cleveland division of police, the cuyahoga county sheriff's office, the federal bureau of investigations for their dedicated work in conducting the investigation in this case. regarding this case, i just signed criminal complaints charging ariel castro with four counts of kidnapping and three counts of rape.

the seven criminal complaints are first degree felonies. the defendant will be arraigned tomorrow morning in cleveland municipal court and his case will be transferred over to the cuyahoga court. cuyahoga county court of common pleas. cuyahoga county prosecutor's office will then proceed with the prosecution of these criminal cases. this case will proceed to the cuyahoga county grand jury, at which time i expect will result in indictments on these charges and may result in additional counts. as it relates to pedro and onil castro, no charges will be filed against these two individuals at this time. there is no evidence that these two individuals had any involvement in the commission of the crimes committed against michele, gina, amanda and the minor child. however, both of them do have outstanding cleveland municipal court warrants for misdemeanor

cases. these misdemeanor cases for pedro and onil will both be heard tomorrow morning in cleveland municipal court. finally as the chief prosecutor for the city of cleveland, born and raised in puerto rico, i want to -- i want everyone to know that the acts of the defendant in this criminal case are not a reflection of the rest of the puerto rican community here or in puerto rico. i also want to remind everyone that this is is now a pending criminal matter. and that we will not be able to provide any more comments at this time. thank you. >> questions? tom? sure. the four kidnap victims are gina, amanda, michele and the young child. and the victims of the rape are gina, amanda and michele.

>> just a reminder, please. if you could come to the microphone. it's hard to hear. >> also make sure you state your name and what media outlet you're working for. >> brian todd from cnn. could you tell us anything about a search that we're finding out about just now of a second residence on seymour avenue where apparently officials went in with protective suits, masks, dogs? this is about two doors down from the castro home. could you tell us what's going on there, please? >> that is a continuation of the search that we conducted at the home on seymour avenue. during the course f of our investigation over the last couple days information was obtained that provided us enough probable cause to seek another search warrant to go into that house with an attempt to secure evidence. >> can you tell us anything more about what's fwoing on in that house? are there suspects there or anything like that? >> no. no suspects are there and what's going on is that is the fbi's

evidence recovery team. and that is their -- their crime scene unit. they do put the protective suits on. they go in there with gloves. and they search and photograph very meticulously all the contents of that home. >> what connection to the castro home? can you tem ll us? >> i can't tell you the exact connection. i can tell you during the course of our investigation information that was obtained led us to that address. >> i work for fox news channel out of new york city. a lot of our viewers want to know did these girls over the course of that 10 year period, 11 year period ever try to escape? were there drugs involved? was ariel castro drugging these girls to prevent them from escaping? what allowed them, what window of opportunity allowed them to escape this time? >> number one, we're not positive about any type of drugs, if they were drugged. that's yet to be determined. number two, the only opportunity

after interviewing the young ladies to escape was the other day when amanda escaped. so they were in that home. i don't believe -- they don't believe that they've been outside of the home for the last ten years respectively. >> were they kept together in one room? >> they -- they were not in one room. but they did know each other and they did know each other was there. >> one more question. what's her relationship -- the child's relationship with the father? what will that be? >> that is amanda's daughter. and as far as the relationship, that hasn't been determined. there's going to be a paternity test taken. there was a search warrant executed on the suspect to obtain his dna. >> great. thank you. >> general pacano with channel 19. i wanted to know if mr. castro, ariel castro was cooperating with investigators, is he speaking to you, and do you suspect there are any other

victims beyond these three women and the little girl? >> yes, he was. he was read his -- provided his miranda rights which he waived. and he did speak with us and provided us -- the division of police, the fbi, and the prosecutors office with a detailed statement. and as of right now, we don't see -- we don't anticipate any other victims at his -- where he's the suspect. >> can i ask one more about the reward money? do we know if anybody will be receiving any reward money, particularly mr. ramsey? >> you know, we don't. we are actually discussing that. that's going to be up to the entities that put up that reward money and what their protocol is. but mr. ramsey does deserve something. a lot of credit. and he is the true key to this case. >> thank you. >> todd veras with channel 3 in cleveland here. would it be safe to say the bulk of your case is based upon the statements of the women? how much of your case is based upon what they told you? >> it -- it -- that's the major

part of the case is what they told us and what the other interviews -- what the suspect told us and what the young lad ladies told us. without a doubt. they were the ones that were there. they were the main players in it. what they told law enforcement was key and that's going to be a key part in the case. >> were they able to get into the ten year narrative here, the history? so much has transpired. how much detail did you get? >> as far as the history of it, i mean, it was -- it was a lengthy interview. i don't want to really get into that. but victims of rape, victims of trauma, particularly young victims, they've been known to disclose 10, 15, 20, 30 years later. as of right now they did provide us with enough information and enough factual basis that we would seek arrest -- we would seek charges against ariel castro. >> thank you. >> hi.

alana samuels with the "los angeles times." is there any evidence mr. castro or any of these girls could be in any way connected with ashley summers or is there any new information that's come to light about her? >> there is no new information that's come to light about her. ashley summers is an active, open investigation. and i can assure you that her disappearance was part of our questioning of the three subjects that we brought in. but that's still an open and active investigation. >> is there any sign that mr. castro was interviewed by cleveland police or the fbi prior to this date for any reason? >> nope. yesterday was the first time. >> thank you. >> lisa wsyx out of columbus. i wanted to ask, one, about the physical restraints that he allegedly used inside this home to keep the girls there. what verbal threats he may have made. and also other pregnancies, possibly miscarriages that the other girls may have had. >> you know, all that is, you

know, evidentiary at this time. that hinges quite a bit on prosecutions. i really don't want to get into exactly and answer those three questions. that's just something that is going to have to be brought out in court. i can't bring that out in a public -- i know the chief mentioned something earlier about that today. but as far as exactly what that was, we cannot bring that out into the public forum at this time. it's not appropriate. >> news channel 5, cleveland. was a suicide note from ariel castro found in his home? >> that is another part of evidence that we recovered that i cannot comment on, on the basis of that. there was over 200 items taken from the home on seymour avenue. ail those items will be processed. they were all taken into the custody of the fbi's evidence response team. they have yet to be processed yet. exactly what they are, i don't

know. there is a -- a crime scene log. that is part of the open investigation. ky i can tell you there was over 200 items taken out of that home. >> any question as to the citizenship of the castro brothers? are they u.s. citizens? >> i don't know. i couldn't tell you. >> thanks. >> we had a lot of questions earlier regarding extra 911 calls that may have come up and not been responded to. >> i'll try and answer that question the best i can. immediately after the recovery of the three victims and their daughter from the home on seymour avenue we began a search of our records to determine whether or not there were any other calls for service to that house on seymour. our review indicated there were no other calms except one call for service in 2000. we were able to identify that cleveland police were at the home once in 2004 for an

incidein incident that involved mr. castro's employment as a bus driver in the city of cleveland. as far as the evidence obtained thus far, the statements from the suspect and the victims, there is no evidence to indicate that any of them were ever outside in the yard in chains, without clothing, or any other manner. in fact, i think the evidence we've obtained thus far in the case, that in the next decade they've only known themselves to be outside the home on two separate occasions. that was only briefly. >> josh haskell with abc news, deputy chief, can you tell us about onil and pedro's relationship with their brother ariel? did they know there were three women living in the house against their will? you think they had any idea what was going on inside that house? >> as far as their relationship, i couldn't tell you. we focused on their knowledge or lack of knowledge. but absolutely not.

there is nothing that leads us to believe that they were involved or they had any knowledge of this. that comes from statements of our victims and their statements and the brothers' statements. so faras far as what their relationship was, ariel kept everybody at a distance. joe, they are from puerto rico. so -- to answer that question about their citizenship. >> jennifer lundgren, channel 3 neez. can you clarify why pedro and onil castro were taken into custody in relation to this case? >> they were with their brother. and it was an investigative stop. as you know early on you can only imagine the -- the chaos and the relief that we had finding these three girls. so we had enough probable cause to bring them into custody. they were brought into custody as many suspects are. we continued our investigation.

we found no facts to link them to the crime. and we do what we usually do. we consult with the prosecutor for charges or for them to be released. so that's the reason. >> can you tell us when their arraignment will be for their outstanding warrants and when they'll be able to go home? >> they should be in court tomorrow. it's up to the judge if he credits them with time served. it's up to the judge. but they'll be in court tomorrow morning. >> thank you. >> bill sheel with channel 8. i don't know if this is for you or maybe the head of the fbi. i don't know if it's a joint task force or not. but we had a story yesterday where a gentleman who was, i believe, initially a suspect in gina dejesus's disappearance and a private investigator indicated to us that this gentleman said he had pointed authorities in the direction of ariel castro back in, like, 2004. again, i don't know who the appropriate person to respond is. but is that true? and what was done with that if

it is true? >> you want to address it, steve? >> just very quickly. we obviously have heard that same statement. and with due diligence we have scrubbed our entire investigative file and have no reason to believe that he made the comments that he's purporting to the media. >> so just so i have it right, there was a conversation with him, but you have no reason to believe that he made the statements to you that he made to us. is that correct? >> as part of this long term joint task force investigation, he was interviewed at some point. and that's -- and that must be what he's referring to when he said that he told us that. again, we have no information to believe based upon our investigative file that that's, indeed, correct. >> thank you very much. >> pamela brown with cnn. it was mentioned earlier that the only opportunity to escape for the victims was on monday when amanda escaped. can you let us know what the

circumstances were that gave her the opening on monday? >> well, she explained some things in her statement that are -- are privileged that i can't -- i can't disclose. but for whatever reason, like i said the other day, something must have clicked and she saw an opportunity. and she took that opportunity. i said it the other day and i'll say it today. that, you know, she is the true hero. she's the one that -- that started this. but as far as what the circumstances were inside that home and the control that he may have had over those girls, we don't know that yet. i think that's going to be -- take us a long time to figure that out. >> but this was the first time they attempted to escape? that's correct? >> yes. yep. >> okay. quickly, can you let us know how the alleged abductions happened years ago? can you provide any details? >> no. no, i can't at this time. i'm sorry. >> thanks. >> that's part -- that was part

of our investigation. >> hi. donna from "usa today." can you give us a general description of the conditions under which these women were living? and i'll save my second question. >> okay. if you want a general description, it was -- the house was in disarray. without going into any -- you know, with any specifics, i did not go into the home. that was an active crime scene. i did not enter the home. so that is, you know, we have a protocol about who enters that home. but just from what the guys were saying, that it was in quite a bit of disarray. >> can you tell me what you mean by disarray? >> well, i guess everybody's definition of that would be different. you know, so that's -- that's just an integral part of our criminal investigation that i really don't want to go any further into exactly what they found or what was in that home.

>> okay. then looking back over the years as you investigated the women's disappearance, are there any areas that you see that you think to yourself, gosh, that was a missed opportunity. for example, some of these domestic violence incidents where his partner or wife or whatever she was asked for protection. >> you know, i have, you know, been a part of this for quite a long time. and, no, the investigators and, you know, the agents and everybody that worked on it, we've asked ourselves that question numerous times over the last ten years. are we missing anything? is there something? is there a sign? is there an assignment? is there something that we missed? i'm just very, very confident in the ability of those investigators and those law enforcement officers that they -- they checked every single lead. if there was one bit of

evidence, one shred of a tip, no matter how minute it was, they followed it up very, very aggressively. so i'd have to say, no. in hindsight we may find out that maybe we did. that's going to be in hindsight and after this criminal case is completed. >> thank you. >> sir, can you tell us about the young child who was rescued along with amanda berry? was she born in that house? is she ariel castro's biological child? and were there other pregnancies among those women. >> okay, the answer to that is, no, i definitely can't tell you about her. she's, you know, a minor and i can't discuss her -- her status at all. because it's a criminal investigation and out of the respect for the three young girls that were in that house. i think that information will come out eventually. but it's not going to come out here today. >> were any of the other three impregnated? >> that's not going to come out here today. that's part of our investigation. we're not going to discuss that. >> layla tossy with the plain

dealer. you mentioned that the women left the house twice in ten years. what were the circumstances of those -- those instances? and also did the women know castro through his daughters before their abduction? >> i'll answer the second one. there's nothing that leads us to believe that they knew -- that there was knowledge between the two or a friendship or that they knew each other. that was -- as far as them leaving the house twice, when you get a chance to see where the house is situated and the garage is situated, we were told they left the house and went into the garage in disguise. so those are the two times that were mentioned. or that they can recall. >> so they never left the property? >> no. >> okay. there's no -- there's no connection between castro and the girls preabduction is what you're saying? there's no evidence that that's true? >> no. we don't see that right now. you know, if that comes out later. but, no, not at all.

>> thank you. >> uh-huh. >> this concludes the media briefing. we'd like to thank everyone for coming out and everyone have a nice day. >> so ariel castro has been charged here with four counts of kidnapping, three counts of rape. of course, also the kidnapping involves the three women and what could be the daughter of one of those. it's not clear yet. they're doing a dna test. so this is where it is. the interesting development today, of course, was of the three brothers that were picked up the other day and arrested, formally arrested, only one is being charged. he's the owner of that location, that house where those three women were being held all these ten years. there's so many open questions. one of the developments today was they found the house in disarray. he denies any evidence in the police record books there was ever any complaints by neighbors anywhere along the line. no evidence anyone ever raised concerns about the situation in that house. any evidence that anyone ever raised the question that there were three women living there in any capacity. also no evidence that anyone

ever saw anyone outside in this very graphic description of a naked woman outside with a dog leash on her, around her neck, apparently. that's also been denied. some of this hearsay, i guess it's the legal term we've been getting in the last day or so now about what actually happened during the ten years of that captivity has now been shot down. what's left is seven criminal charges. obviously all felonies against ariel castro. four for kidnapping. of course, continuing, of course. of course, the three counts of rape. clint, how do you put it all together? i'm sure some of this jumps out at you as either anomalous or whatever. how do you see it? >> yeah. it really does, chris. i think you hit on one of the points. just like neighbors are telling us that they called in to the police and the police didn't show up, there were also allegations that the other two brothers were in and out of that house. well, if they were, one would think they obviously had to know what was going on and know that all three victims were there. but the police tell us there's no evidence.

of course, part of that evidence would be the interviews. one of the first questions you would say is, other than the primary suspect, did either of his two brothers ever come in? did they ever touch you? did they know you were there? it appears that the police don't have that evidence to support this. so it appears to refute a lot of the information that apparently most people thought was public. but, once again, we find out may well have been an error. >> let's talk about the situation here. we're talking about a guy, middle-aged guy. he's not superman. he may not be a genius, either. we don't know. let's assume average intelligence, average physical ability. average sort of criminal background in terms of knowing how to do something illegally. how did he keep three women, apparently all in three separate rooms? he must have been quite a custodian. he must have been quite a prison guard if you will. to systemically -- they have to go to the bathroom. they have to live somewhat -- they have to go to bed at night.

he must have put them in bed at night, taken meals to them separately, taken them to the bathroom separately. i'm just thinking about just the natural sort of human custody requirements and how he managed to do them all and also this raping thing. why did they only charge him with one rape per victim? why do you think that is -- is that just a steppingstone towards a multirape charge later on down the road? or is it accusation of one time in each case? what do you think is going on here? >> yeah. i think -- let's deal with your last question first. i think it's -- they need something to charge this guy with in the holding. so the obvious thing is they have enough information to say these three girls were kidnapped. they have enough information to say at least one rape, probably, of each victim took place. that's enough to just put a charge against him and hold him while they put the rest of the case together. realize, the fbi's just been in and out of that house getting the physical evidence. we've heard allegations that

there were at least five births, five pregnancies within the house. there are allegations that the oldest victim, this 20-year-old woman when she was taken, that she was beaten severely. that her hearing has been damaged. the bones in her face have been broken. just that alone, chris. can you imagine if one woman would have been battered that much and the other two women saw that, that alone could be enough to stop them. but what we just heard was amazing. that in ten years, with the exception of going into the garage one time, these women never got out of that house. the first part of this week was the only opportunity they ever felt they had to escape. you think of the logistical challenges of trying to keep three prisoners. as you say, a prison guard, how do you keep three prisoners and meet their needs for clothing and food and everything else. medicine. there was a birth, apparently, a

live birth, at least one. notwithstanding the children that may have been lost in that house. >> so he was the midwife? what are we talking about here? he was the midwife? by the way you said there were other births. where are those children now? how many years old they are, where are they? >> we've got the one live birth. well, no. we've got the 6-year-old we know of that, of course, the one woman carried out, the first woman to escape. then there are allegations that there were at least five other pregnancies. now, we don't know if these were full term pregnancies. >> we've heard of -- >> or just being impregnated and lost. >> we've heard of miscarriages. all that happening without medical assistance. all that, another aspect of the custodial relationship here. the whole thing. they were being treated like mushrooms down in the basement there. no air. no decent amount of sunlight for ten years. no sunlight on a person? living out of the air out of the -- basically out of the

atmosphere down there. you just wonder how they kept their health up. i know they were young. keeping their health. getting through the normal diseases you get, the colds, the flus which you get in a house where you never get any sunlight. and they're alive. maybe it's a great testament to their own individual strength or something here. this is -- do you think there's more to this case? >> two things, chris. how did they keep up their health and how did they keep up their sanity. you know, i guess it really speaks to the resilience of the human spirit that we can stand up to something like that and still survive. it's no wonder the one young woman or two today refused to actually step out in front of the media. realize, we're being told they had no human contact with the exception of perhaps with each other and with their kidnappers for ten years. and then they look out in the front yard of the house they haven't been in in ten years, and there are 300 members of the media. >> i get you. >> that probably just scared the hell out of them.

>> good empathy for you. let's go to craig melvin who knows what's happening right now. craig, what do you have? >> reporter: chris, we've been sifting through the -- through the police report. it's about a dozen pages or so. but there's been a lot -- a lot of questions about precisely how he was able to get these three girls into that house. and based on the police report it appears as if all three of them were lured to the house by all three rides. castro apparently offered rides to all three. according to the police report, amanda berry got into his car after he told her that his son worked at the same burger king. we're told that -- that michele, michele knight, she told police today that ariel castro offered her a ride home because he used a relationship that he had with her daughter. their two daughters knew each other. he uses his daughter to lure -- to lure gina into the car. also we found out by combing through this police report that according to amanda, her

daughter has never seen a doctor nor has any of the other three women. they haven't seen a medical professional in a decade. when the officers searched the house, we're told when they announced they were clooeld police michele jumped into the officers' arms. also, michele knight, according to the police report, said that she's been pregnant at least five times. and that ariel castro was the father. when he found out about the pregnancies, he forced her to abort those pregnancies. michele telling police that he starved her at one point for at least a two-week period. repeatedly punched her in the stomach until she miscarried. at one point according to the police report, chris, michele actually -- michele knight helped deliver amanda's baby in the house in a plastic baby pool so it would be easier to clean up. again, all of that coming from the 12-page police report.

again, shedding some light on just precisely how it was that this 52-year-old man was able to lure these young women into the two-story house behind me. >> let me go back. hold on there, craig. keep reading that. let me go back to clint. criminal mind at work here. the ability to lure people in through seduction. we always tell our kids, don't get in the car. once you're in the car you're completely captive. you could be taken anywhere. i know it's risky to tell kids any advice because it may break bad. isn't that still the best advice to children, don't get in the car? fight, make your run for it, that's your chance. when the guy or woman first makes their move on you is the one chance you have to get away. >> it is. and realize this guy appears to be a very manipulating sociopath who had the right words to the right girl at the right time. >> exactly. criminal mind. >> he was able to put them at ease. he was a member of the community. he used a name they knew. they didn't want to walk home. here he is offering them a ride. one bad mistake, ten years

later. >> what would these charges be for punching a young girl, a pregnant woman in the stomach to encourage a miscarriage, basically aborting the child? this kind of behavior, i mean, it looks to me like we're looking at a person with multiple charges, potentially. multiple rapes. by the way, when you kidnap somebody, does the penalty go up for how long you hold them? if you hold them for three or four days as opposed to ten years? is there a difference in the charge? >> well, you know, we can look at federal charges. these will all probably be state charges, though, because they were all right in the area. but there are going to be these terrible extenuating circumstances that are going to be involved. you know, and realize this one young woman is alleging that she was pregnant five times. and this guy beat her and forced her, you know, to abort or lose these children each time. somebody earlier today, i was on, chris, with said ohio is one

of the three states in the country that recognize a fetus as a living human being. and, therefore, if this is true, that's five counts of murder that'll be against him. >> well, that will be an interesting development politically in this country. let's go back to what we've been trying to figure out. i guess this is always -- this is like plato's republic trying to figure out what's going on in the cave. we've been trying to figure out a case and yet the questions grow. how he did it. how this one guy was able to seduce on three separate occasions over a year or two three different women. obviously competent young people. they were just seduced brilliantly by the lure of an easy ride. they've all said that. of course, the confidence that comes from believing that a person wouldn't completely make up a relationship with one of their friends with such manipulation. the normal assumption the person you're talking to is not criminally insane or a real criminal mind at work. then, of course, the ability to get them all to live together, to midwife each other, in one case, to avoid medical treatment

for a decade. to eat. i was just wondering, maybe this sounds hideously stupid. when he goes to the safeway and he buys food for five people every time he goes, didn't anybody notice? maybe he was criminally intelligent enough to go from different stores to mix up his shopping list so that he was feeding everybody through a -- you know, a number of sources. >> well, all of these neighbors, chris, who allegedly they see a naked woman in the backyard, somebody pounding on the glass, there were also people that said, yeah, i saw this guy carrying big bags of mcdonald's through the back door all the time. well, wait. if you're carrying two or three bags of big maces through a back door of a house where it appears nobody is looking, this fguy isn't just sitting inside the house watching basketball games eating five big macs. all of these clues, not only for allegations against the police, but neighbors should have picked up on these things, too. you know what, chris? this, to me, it harkens me back

almost and as you well know to the kitty geneveses case in the 1950s. a woman was being brutally murdered. allegations were people closed the windows, nobody paid attention. once again it looks like there were clues out there people could have seen, could have done something about. whether it's neighbors or law enforcement. how can you miss it for ten years, chris? ten minutes, ten days, ten years, i just can't buy it. >> let's talk good police work. let's talk positive police work. community relations. it looks like there were no community relations there. >> yeah. >> looks like the community and i'll be open minded about this, at no time have a good relationship with the police department. wasn't able to, wasn't willing to, wasn't inclined to share a lot of community information with the police department. the police department was not going around looking for it that much. it may have been what we call -- i always like to say it in a nice way, a tough neighborhood where there is crime. there are people in the system. people who've had criminal problems. they don't feel like, oh, call

officer brian to come on over. i just thought about something the other day. something strange about it. they didn't have that kind of ongoing conversation between the community and the police force. that is going to look like it. this is what it looks like. that's the police were not involved in that community. the community was not confident in addressing the police. what seemed to be as we're talking about it common sense suspicions. >> well, the community's going to have a memory, too, chris. they're going to remember back in 2009 where this guy by the name of anthony sowell had 11 different women in his house in cleveland and methodically brought these women into the house, murdered them, kept the bodies in the house. neighbors were calling the police and saying it smells like there's dead bodies in there. and it took nine deaths -- or 11 deaths to finally get the police to act to get somebody to come and do something like that. you know, again, as we started out talking, it could be an anomaly. but i think the police department is going to take some hits trying to explain these things. and all of this may not be their

fault. but they still got some explaining to do. >> somebody's beat. anyway, neighbors say there were warning signs of trouble at the castro house there. let's take a look. nbc news national investigative correspondent jeff rosen spoke to two of the neighbors with their own disturbing stories. >> reporter: this man lives just a few doors down. he told us in 2011 his sister saw a woman holding a child in the house. and banging on the window for help. >> i called the cops. 20, 30 minutes around the cops pulled up. they pounded a good 20 times. they was there five, eight minutes. no answer. they shine the light inside the driveway. see the windows are boarded up. got back inside the squad car and left. >> reporter: that was it? >> that was it. >> reporter: last july another neighbor noticed another disturbing sight there. >> my granddaughter told me about the naked lady crawling on her hands and knees back there in the backyard. >> reporter: she says she called the police but they never came. tuesday police were adamant, they've never been called to the house for those reasons.

>> well, nbc's savannah guthrie asked cleveland police chief michael mcgrath about those calls, if they did occur. let's listen to his response. >> we have no record of those calls coming in over the last ten years. >> reporter: you have no record of it. does that mean those calls didn't come or is it possible the calls were made and for whatever reason, they were never recorded? >> no. we would have a recording of those calls. >> that's a pretty tough answer. let me go back to craig melvin. it seems to me we've got a problem here. what's it feel like in that community? can you give us a sense of -- do you see police cars? i guess you see police cars now. do you have a sense this is a good rapport we're looking at here between the community and the police? can you tell? >> reporter: you know what? i'm going to be careful. >> i know we have to be. >> reporter: in the community, they're within six or seven feet of me, chris matthews. i think your description a few minutes ago when you described the neighborhood as tough, that would be a very apt description. there are lots of boarded up

houses here. a number of the houses are in foreclosure. there are a lot of folks in this neighborhood, i talked to many of them today, they don't work. they are very distrustful. very distrustful. that would probably be an understatement. very distrustful of the police as well. i do want to go back to the police report we've been sifting through here over the past few minutes. there are just a few more items i want to pass along. also there are some things in that report that we are not going to share on television because, quite frankly, they're a little too graphic for evening cable news. but at one point it appears according to the police report that the baby, the 6-year-old now, there was a point where she was a child where she had some sort of health issue. she was in distress. shortly after amanda had given birth to her. and according to the police report, the 52-year-old who's been charged right now said to her, if that baby dies, i'll kill you.

so that -- that should give you a pretty good idea of the type of conditions or even perhaps the mind control that castro had over these three women. and the two times that they did leave the house, according to the police report, they were in costume. they were in wigs. they were in glasses. >> my god. and so, boy, that makes it sound, craig, it sounds like his ability to control them was through absolute terror. that, you know, your baby dies, you die. that's one way to get somebody to get -- i'm sure a mother if she was the mother in this case was certainly going to look out for the child anyway. let's go back now to clint again and looking at this as a profiler case. what do you see here in this guy? >> yeah. well, you see a -- you see this sexual psychopath, sociopath, sexual sadist. somebody who not only kidnapped and not only -- we know rape is a crime of power, dominance and

control. this goes far beyond that. when you get a sadist you get someone who enjoys torturing. just like the police have told us. there were chains there. there were ropes there. that was used to bind and tie these women up. but that was also because this type of personality enjoys doing that. enjoys that terrible level of dominating. and as we're suggesting right now, actually terrorizing, traumatizing, these women so that they wouldn't escape. i mean, you and i talked about the emotional chains that held these women. these emotional chains, the fright, the fear for their very life and for their baby's life, was so great that that was as strong if not stronger than the chains and ropes that this guy used to tie them up, chris. >> what kind of witnesses will they be in court? they must find a way of denerving themselves. i'm trying to think of the right term. if you know every day's going to be a horror and you know every day is going to involve perhaps being raped, being beaten, being frightened, you would sort of i

think develop a certain ability to deal with that. that ability takes away from your ability to have a true sensory appreciation of life. you're not looking for new sensory experiences. you're looking for unnerving, avoiding any new experience feeling. are they going to be good witnesses or are they going to be shell shocked by this whole thing? >> well, it's going to take time to bring them around. you know, one day at a time. there's two different ways to look at this. number one is that these women have been so traumatized they never need to see this guy again. the flip side of that coin is how do they finally face their kidnapper? how do they finally face their torment tormentor? that's going to be in a court of law. if they can be prepped, if they can be helped, if they can be brought back properly, finally after ten years, they'll get a chance to be in the driver's seat. this guy will be the one who's in shackles, chains and and orange jump suit. >> i'm talking to an expert, clint. you know he'll be planning for that courtroom scene, too. he'll be planning to use all his mind control and intimidation. >> and he'll like it, chris.

he'll like it. yeah. this guy will like that level of confrontation. but that's all right. these women, this -- this is justice. i mean, in america we have justice. and this will be their chance to get back at their tormentor.tor. chris, let me throw something out to you. three quick numbers, maybe four. you and i have talked about 850,000 missing people every year in the united states. in cleveland, right this second, there are 96 people missing. 45 of them are women. 30 are women 18 and younger, somewhere around the area where these three girls disappeared, to include the women we talked about, ashley summers. so there's 30 young women missing in that area. law enforcement has to look at every one of those missing persons, 18 and under, and see if there's any relationship between them and their current suspect also. >> and if your child's missing

you no, you should call the police today, again, and next week because this is a lesson in the squeaky wheel. don't assume they are working in l.a. somewhere. don't assume they are passed away. assume they are somewhere that the police can get there in some time. clint, don't go away. we'll be back in a moment. i love my contractor, and i am so thankful to angie's list for bringing us together. angie's list -- reviews you can trust. thto fight chronic. osteoarthritis pain. to fight chronic low back pain. to take action. to take the next step. today, you will know you did something for your pain. cymbalta can help. cymbalta is a pain reliever fda-approved to manage chronic musculoskeletal pain. one non-narcotic pill a day, every day, can help reduce this pain. tell your doctor right away if your mood worsens, you have unusual changes in mood or behavior

or thoughts of suicide. anti-depressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. cymbalta is not for children under 18. people taking maois, linezolid or thioridazine or with uncontrolled glaucoma should not take cymbalta. taking it with nsaid pain relievers, aspirin, or blood thinners may increase bleeding risk. severe liver problems, some fatal, were reported. signs include abdominal pain and yellowing skin or eyes. tell your doctor about all your medicines, including those for migraine and while on cymbalta, call right away if you have high fever, confusion and stiff muscles or serious allergic skin reactions like blisters, peeling rash, hives, or mouth sores to address possible life-threatening conditions. talk about your alcohol use, liver disease and before you reduce or stop cymbalta. dizziness or fainting may occur upon standing. take the next step. talk to your doctor. cymbalta can help. craig melvin, thank you for joining us. let me ask you one last question about this.

when you look through the whole report, does anything grab you besides the gravity of these charges, at least seven very serious felonies that may develop something with regard to those fetuses, too, and whether they involve life for the state of ohio. that kind of question is lingering there. >> reporter: chris, i think, again, i vmphaven't gotten thro the whole thing. what strikes me is how he was, according to the police report, how he was able, how castro was able to ward these girls. he essentially used the same m.o. over and over again, offering rides. and at one point actually using his daughter -- actually using his daughter to lure gina into the car. so it paints the picture of someone who wasn't just satisfied with ruining the life of one young woman but ruining the lives of three. if there was one piece of good

news perhaps out of that entire news conference -- and i use good for lack of a better adjective, the fact that there does not seem to be any other victims out there right now. they think that they got him. >> great reporting. great reporting. craig melvin, thank you for joining us from cleveland ohio. let me go now to clint van zandt and follow what clint is good at, missing patterns. the manipulation of these women, their friendships to try to give them comfort to, give them a free ride, something right up front, and then, of course, to be able to get them into that house and keep them there for a decade each and keep them in their separate ways alive, healthy, and useful to him and whatever his purposes were. by the way, why would he want three? would he want more? what's this tell you about his profile?

>> yeah. three is an interesting number. and again, chris, realize he grabbed the first victim in '02, '03, '04. you're telling me this guy batted a thousand that every time he went for a victim he was able to get it. there were no attempts where, as you suggest, young women would have refused, said no thank you, i know better to get into a stranger's car, and what about all of these other missing persons? i would not be quick to close a book on this guy whatsoever. but, you know, you've got to look at logistically for him, once he's got one victim and why in the world he wants two and three, only he can answer that question. then what does he do with them? you have to maintain them. if you let them loose, you have to tell them who you are. if you kill them, that's another level of crime. so, you know, can you imagine someone who can kidnap, torture, rape right up to taking

somebody's life but says, oh, no, murder's too significant of a crime for me, therefore i had to keep these women locked up for ten years, what was i going to do with them? i've heard people say that to me. that's a horrible level of rational but they are able to rationalize their behavior. >> criminals in prison, is this a myth i grew up with, or are they especially cruel and unpleasant to these kinds of inmates? >> i hope so. i hope so. >> isn't that the pattern? they don't like people who hurt children. they don't like it. >> no. hu-huh. there was a ladder or a hierarchy in prison and the lowest level in prison is someone who offends against the child and already i've heard where these guys are incarcerated, that there are other inmates yelling at him,

screaming, threatening what they are going to do. and realize when these two brothers were -- the police say we have no evidence against these two brothers, i wouldn't necessarily want to be one of them on the streets of cleveland with the community believing still you may have had something to do with this terrible crime. >> well, i hope the people out there respond to the fact that there's no charges against them and you've got to treat them as innocent. it's a smart development here. i think it's a wonderful thing to think about, the one thing that people have done very bad things, the one person they miss in prison is their kids and maybe it's the basis of all of that respect. this charge, do you think this is going to take a while? i know there's always a good defense and a smart lawyer can develop one. i wonder with this kind of a case where you have the housing situation well-established, where the defendant in this case is well-established to have lived there, the three women victims are well ready and proven their ability to testify

against him. what could possibly be missing in that equation that would suggest innocence? i mean, i'm just talking about how the trial proceeds. it looks like a complicated case. >> yeah. well, you have to look at our criminal justice system and how hard as the prosecution, what work. you and i can say one count of kidnapping and one count of rape ought to be good enough to put any suspect away, if found guilty, for the rest of their life but we've seen all of the forensic work. we've heard about the forced loss of the children, we've heard about the beatings, we've heard about the multiple sexual assaults f law enforcement wants to, they can build hundreds of counts against this guy. but how many years past 100 can you give him in jail? the criminal justice system has got to make a decision, how many counts do you want to put against him and how many lives do you want him to serve in prison? >> you know, it seems like he

would go to prison if he's found guilty. the lingering question is the brothers. they were all arrested. there was some kind of cause for that and now two of them are found not justified to be charged for anything and the other thing is, haven't they been seen entering that home and if they were going in and out of that place, don't they have some responsibility to prove that that wasn't going on? the state has to prove that they did hear or sense the presence of four other people in that house when they visited their brother? >> well, i'm sure that the -- that the law enforcement would not turn these two brothers loose if one of the three girls said the two brothers were involved in my kidnapping or i was sexually assaulted or beaten by one of the other two brothers, that would have been very blatant evidence that they

could have used to hold one or brothers at the time. are the girls being completely frank? are they afraid of the brothers? obviously they were afraid of the one guy for ten years. i think there's a lot more chapters in this book. again, the physical evidence, the evidence teams are still in the house. they are going to have to process that and that could take months. >> cleinton, you're the best. this is "hardball" now and thanks for being with us. we'll have an entirely new edition and the republican's efforts to blame obama and hillary clinton for this thing called benghazi. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. thanks, chris, and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, home at last in an amazing and emotional scene today, two of the freed women came home.