teen. they won an emmy for the technical team for covering the summer olympics. congratulations to you all. e-mails, please? >> we have two here. my two dogs decided they were ready for breakfast. together, they outweigh me. >> and then another one, my mother colbert had meat for the dogs too. great show, everyone. "morning joe" kicks off right now. ♪ tonight, i am angry! and, for once, that doesn't make me happy! and i think you know why. >> a scandal tainted former south carolina governor mark sanford won back his old seat in congress tuesday. the republican defeated the

sister of stephen colbert. >> my sister lost! how could this happen? i was so sure lulu had won because cnn had called it for sanford. the voters of south carolina have spoken. mark sanford beat my sister and i believe that means mark sanford is now my sister! >> what? >> that's pretty funny. >> yeah, that's funny. i don't get it, but -- it's not my sister? >> he is joking, joe! >> good morning, it's thursday, may the 9th. with us on the set, the chairman of deutch inc., donny deutsche. >> that was rough last night. >> i don't think anybody knows but last night was mika's book party. barbra streisand was there and the dalai lama was there. wow. >> it was unbelievable. >> my daughters will never be the same either.

>> no. >> what did you do, donny, to her daughters? >> i did not! are they delicious. >> oh, my god. >> don't use that word! talking about a 14 and 17-year-old girls. >> no, no, please. mika pulls me aside and i have to introduce you to the greatest woman in the world, our nanny of 16 years. was that part? i love that. >> 17. >> that's great. >> that showed me something. >> thoroughbreds! >> oh, my god. >> who is? >> the daughters. >> geez! >> thoroughbreds! amazing! >> joe, he is trying to be nice. >> delicious, thoroughbred? i don't want somebody talking about my 14 and 17-year-old sweet young girls. >> they are fantastic. >> i guess this is what you say on the upper east side? 14-year-old girls? i don't know. >> what is wrong with me? >> what is wrong with me? >> sorry about this, richard.

>> take it from the top. >> good morning. welcome to "morning joe." with us is msnbc political analyst and vice president and executive editor of msnbc.com, richard wolfe! >> it was a great party last night. >> it was a great party. the book i'm told is flying. >> they are in their 18th read. >> your editor was saying it sold by a huge margin greater than your first two which were best sellers. >> fantastic. >> a lot to talk about today. >> donny is in the book. >> he is. >> so, yesterday, we had a couple of things falling. politically the ben ghazi hearings and the "the new york times" lead story here and there were some liberals on twitter last night saying nothing to see here, nothing to see here. the headline of "the new york times" suggest they are wrong. envoy testifies libya questioned led to demotion. troubling information coming

out. not exactly what we had been promised by some conservatives earlier but i will tell you it is not good news for the white house. at the same time, you have somebody else saying the administration was pressuring them not to tell the truth about afghanistan. you have cheryl mills who is hillary clinton's chief of staff calling and yelling at a 22-year-old foreign service veteran for meeting with a congressman. you got a guy told not to talk to the press. you got, again, on this pentagon story, you've got the administration telling somebody not to talk to the press without first being screened. it really was a rough day politically. we also have a poll out we will will be showing that shows the president's numbers are up and republican numbers are down. so a lot going on. >> questions about the use of chemical weapons in syria. there is a certain piece in eye

time" magazine that a certain friend of yours won't like. ariel castro is charged with four counts of kidnapping and three counts of rape. castro's two brothers were arrested but not been charged with any crimes at this time. the cleveland "the plain dealer" allegedly castro asked the three women rides to lure them into his home. amanda berry and gina dejesus and michele knight lived in the house for ten years except for trips to the backyard. family and friends are undoubtedly still in shock. the new details on the investigation are, to say the least, difficult to hear.

according to a police report, the suspect impregnated one of the victims five times and punched her into the stomach until she miscarried. it goes on to say one of the young women was forced to deliver the baby of another in a kiddie pool. meanwhile, neighbors are criticizing police for failing to investigate the home, despite at least two reports of strange behavior there. officials say they have no record of the calls. >> donny, it just boggles the mind. this could have been going on as long as 2002 in this house in this neighborhood and nobody knew. the cops didn't follow through on opportunities to save these girls. shocking. >> as a father of daughters, you hear those. sometimes you just -- it's

incomprehensible. the beasts that live within people. no words as far as the police. you got to wonder in a indication situation like this how there was never a knock at the door but i think we will continue to hear that. >> why their cases were essentially given up on, i don't know. >> the police and the mayor adamant. you have the neighbors saying we saw women in the backyard and strange things happen and called the cops. the police said yesterday over and over, we never got these phone calls. you have conflicting reports about neighbors who suspected things and tried to reach out and the police say they combed through all of their call records and had a system that would have picked it up and said they never received those calls. it's hard to make those two pieces fit but that is what the police are saying. >> i don't know. we are going to be following

this story, obviously, it might be mental recovery for these young women. >> do you ever recover? i don't see, richard, how you ever wolf from this. i know the support they are being shown right now certainly phelps for now but i don't know what happens. >> let's face it. they are young adult lives have been taken away from them. we can turn our anger towards and frustration towards the police and who knows whether there was something there but really our anger and frustration should be about people, evil people who are doing things like that. we have to be careful about describing certain people. this is evil. >> the community has to look at how this could happen right before their eyes. right next door. right down the street and every community needs to look at that. when you ask questions about something you see that seems to be strange, you shouldn't be embarrassed. i mean, just ten years. come on! >> there was infamous story out

of new york decades ago. i guess in the early '60s and maybe mid '60s about the woman who was being beaten to death and everybody listened and everybody heard her screams for 20, 30 minutes and nobody did anything. yeah, wasn't it the genevieve's case? and it really is something that jarred new york and jarred the country because nobody intervened. we are going to be finding out over the coming weeks how this happened for as long as it did and as mike always says on this show, we are so disconnected as a people now. >> we don't look anywhere. >> just not the community there is any more. maybe we all need to try a little bit harder and there is going to be a lot of soul searching not only in cleveland because this has happened in cleveland a couple times. not only cleveland, but across the country. >> it will be fascinating to see

the questions that police and investigators answer in terms of how this was looked at. not making aining any judgments can't wait to hear how this happened in their community. >> one thing that cannot be overstated is the courage of amanda berry to do what she did. when you knew what was going on in the house and new if caught she would be beaten or killed by this guy and took a huge risk doing what she did. >> she has something special. >> and charles ramsey, the neighbor came and helped. the decisions she made taking her life into her own hands and tried to get out and save the other women too. >> i agree with you. let's move to the obama administration clashing with republicans in congress over the attack on the u.s. consolute in ben ghazi last year and brings

terror and diplomacy on capitol hill. the militant raid left four americans dead. >> the committee's labor on uncover what happened prior during and after the attack mats. it matters to me personally and it matters to my colleagues. it matters to the american public for whom we serve and, most importantly, excuse me. it matters to the friends and family of ambassador stevens, sean smith, glenn doherty and tyrone woods who were murdered on september 11th, 2012. >> susan rice originally suggested it was sparked by protesters online video mocking the prophet muhammad.

>> so fast forward, mr. hicks, to the sunday talk shows and ambassador suture rice. she blamed this attack on a video. in fact, she did it five different times. what was your reaction to that? >> i was stunned. my jaw dropped. and i was embarrassed. >> hicks, who served as ambassador stevens second in command said he was demoted for questioning the administration's actions. he referenced an angry phone call he received from the chief of staff to then secretary of state hillary clinton who, according to him, was upset that he spoke with a republican congressman without a state department lawyer present at the meeting. >> what did she have to say to you? >> she demanded a report on the visit. >> was she upset by the fact this lawyer -- this -- >> was upset.

>> this baby-sitter was not allowed to happen? was sheup set about that fact? >> she was very upset. >> this goes right to the person next to secretary clinton, is that accurate? >> yes, sir. >> here is a guy with 22 years of outstanding service to our country. now they are obstructing because he won't -- he won't help them cover this up, he's an honorable man here telling the truth. now is getting this kind of treatment from the very people who praised him before. >> so he's in the state department, willie, for 2 years and for the first time in 22 years, he talks to it a congressional delegation. they go over and investigate these things and if you're in the state department or -- you talk to them and he is getting yelled at for not doing that. he is saying and what "the new york times" is talking about now, he was effectively demote and they got pissed off at him for what he said about susan

rice's system which is clearly false. i'm not saying that she did it intentionally. somebody handed her talking points that was false and it appears knowingly false because you had people over there in the state department saying it was knowingly false. and this guy is effectively demot demoted. >> yes, the talking points were made by someone but didn't come from the ground. mr. hicks yesterday said he was stunned when he heard ambassador rice say that on the sunday shows because they no inkling. they were under attack and they didn't know there was a video or didn't know that was a possibility and no report from ambassador stevens about a protester outside the gates so the point is where did the talking points come from if they didn't come from the people on the ground. >> lisa myers is with us from washington. you've been following these hearings closely, lisa. we have been careful on this

program since this happened september 11th to look before we leapt. there have been a lot of people stirring up conspiracy theories not knowing what they were talking about because it was the obama administration. i give them about as much credit this morning as i gave people who were against the iraq war without knowing the details first. in this case, though, you look at the testimony. forget the republicans. forget the congressman. you look at these state department officials, these professionals. you're flool floabsolutely floo what they are saying. put this in respect for us in all of your time in washington, d.c. >> look. this was an extraordinary moment where the raw emotion overtook the politics in the room. here you had three highly credible career state department employees who were putting their careers on the line because they believe the full truth has not been told about what happened before, during, and after the attacks in ben ghazi.

they expressed their frustrating over inadequate security at the embassy and to get mi helps from ben ghazi that night and talked about efforts to suppress in their view the truth. they believe that the independent review that was done was not adequate because it did not examine the decision making and the actions of the most senior state department officials and clearly hicks believe there was a concerted effort to shut him up. he was demoted and chewed out and he essentially says he now has a job with no real responsibilities. >> are you surprised? i guess as a congressman who has been on these delegations before, are you surprised that state department official called and yelled at a 22-year-old -- 22-year foreign service diplomat for talking to a congressional

delegation? >> i've been in washington long enough that i'm not really surprised. i should say that the state department or people representing cheryl mills and hillary clinton say that that did not happen, that cheryl mills was very supportive of the people in ben ghazi and only called to see if they needed more help and to see how they were doing. clearly that no, sir the message that greg hicks took away. >> are they saying he is lying? >> are they accusing him of lying in front of a congressional committee? >> they are disputing the accuracy of his memory. >> wow. >> donny, this doesn't pass a sniff test. you know what we are about to get into? we are about to get into some very dangerous territory for the administration. they demote this guy and now they are doing what we have seen too often, where you try to now call him a liar? >> this has clearly -- >> are they saying he doesn't

remember? i don't think this guy will forget the events of september 11th and beyond for the rest of his life. >> i started with a circus and ended the day with a yuck. the big question for this country in 2016 does it have the sticky factor for hillary clinton. this is, obviously, the football, richard, the republicans don't let go of. the american public has a strange way of deciding what they want to hold on to and don't want to hold on to, vis-a-vis, a republican presidential candidate and this is going to be a big question mark going forward for mrs. clinton. >> the. i think democrats after the 9/11 commission thought they might have something out of that when it came to president bush and there was no stickiness to it at all. let's just compare, obviously, the scale of the events are different but the reaction to an official report. this independent review, including people like tom

pickering. he is hugely respected. was the u.n. ambassador for bush 41 in the first gulf war. these are not lightweight people who came up with this independent review. now, we got to separate out how cheryl mills who, by the way, is well known for chewing out people. the idea that cheryl mills was shouting at officials for doing something that transgressed what she thought was her boss's position not unusual and not saying that is justified but that is cheryl mills for you you. the treatment of a whistle-blower, you got to be super careful. she clearly crossed the line but that is very different from suggesting that susan rice, who was reading from cia proofed talking points, was willfully misleading the american people, it's very different from talking about the security lapses and especially very different, what was most emotional in the hearing was what could have been done differently which is what this independent review looked at. could they have scrambled jets

or used air power? this is not the movie here. this was a surprise attack. whatever you think the reason was for it, the overwhelmed the defense's in its place and the few people protecting the ambassador calling in jets showers away to have precision target bombs and somehow laser guided by some former air controller that -- >> richard, i keep hearing that. that is the democratic talking point. >> it's not a talking point. it is reality. >> i hear it every day and it is a talking point. let me ask you this. do you think you and i know what would have saved people in ben ghazi better than somebody sitting in tripoli? are we sitting here in the comfort of this studio in midtown, manhattan? are we dismissing what hicks and other people are saying? >> i'm saying the independent review led by somebody like tom pickering has a better idea than any of us sitting in washington,

yes. >> lisa? >> one point i think needs to be made when hicks asked for first military flyover and the dispatch of a four-person special ops team which was in trip tripoli to ben ghazi nobody knew another attack in a few hours and no one knew when there would be another attack or if there would be another attack. i think what appalls someone in the special forces community is that more effort wasn't made to get someone there, no matter the degree of difficulty. now, i agree with richard, there has been no information to contradict what the pentagon has said they didn't have the ability to get anyone there, but that begs the question, how can you send diplomats in this case were incredibly brave and heroic and send them to a post where is

there inadequate security for a risk there and you have no contingency plan to help them if there is an attack? >> lisa, i take it you're on this story again today and we are going to be in washington tomorrow. love to have you on if you can make it. >> would love to. >> nbc lisa myers, coming up. coming up, republican senator tom coburn will be here and david gregory of "meet the press" and al sharpton and walter isaacson. >> first talk about the severe weather that happened in kansas yesterday. this amazing picture from fairport, kansas. these are twin tornadoes. if you look careful in between the telephone poles you can see one right there and another one located right there. that is where we want to see the tornadoes, by the way. out in the farmers fields doing

no damage whatsoever. in all five twisters across the country and most located in kansas or there was one actually located there in areas of central texas but, again, no significant damage from yesterday's severe weather. we have more today, though. almost the same spots. oklahoma city, wichita falls, dallas, ft. worth, south towards to central texas near austin you could see strong storms today. i don't think we will see many tornadoes and area this from illinois to indianapolis we could see some storms. i mentioned three inches of rain in new york yesterday and philadelphia up to an inch of rain. you got wet the last hour or two. and there is more rain heading for new york city during the day today. maybe even about two hours from now, i think the best chances and then new england a little later this afternoon. so the bottom line, we are are in spring weather pattern area more humidity and more storms out there and many of us need to carry the umbrella, including you in washington, d.c. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. i don't make any decisions about who to hire

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♪ at 26 past the hour, time to take a look at the morning papers. "the boston globe" senator elizabeth warren introduced her first stint alone bill yesterday calling for washington to drop the interest rate on student loans for one year while lawmakers work a long-term solution. >> if the federal reserve can float trillions of large dollars to large financial institutions at low interest rates to grow the economy, surely they can float the department of education the money to fund our students, keep us competitive, and help grow our middle class. >> exactly. willie? >> los angeles times. former enron jeff skilling could

see his sentence reduced by a decade and if proofed it will. he was convicted in 2006 on 19 of 28 criminal counts of securities and wire fraud. >> "the new york times" after more than 26 years on the sidelines, long time manager manchester united air alex ferguson will retire. he built manu into one of the renounced clubs. there are no words. americans don't -- most americans don't understand what sir alex has accomplished. we as liverpool fans hate him. >> hate him. >> i have called him darth vader for years. he is simply the greatest coach has ever been. he is the secretariat of coaches. no comparison. >> i was thinking is he like lombardi?

is he greater? a living legend. incredible decade after decade and miserable complete domination of the entire pinnacle -- >> americans get involved in soccer. in britain they think it's easy and it's the toughest sport to figure out. you talk to the red sox owners now wringing their hands it's maddening. sir alex over 20 years he took no crap off of anybody. if you played for him, you were playing for manu and you were playing for sir alex. i've never seen nickel it before in sports. he is remarkable and he has won decade after decade. >> willie, why are we talking about soccer? >> excellence and it doesn't matter whether you're a school teacher, whether you're a band conductor. whether you are a guy that wears baby gap black t-shirts and does push-ups on national television and calls 14-year-old girls

thoroughbreds and delicious. >> seriously? >> excellence is excellence. >> really? >> excellence comes in all shapes and sizes. >> i'll strike the term delicious from your vocabulary. >> i think thoroughbreds aren't good either. i don't know. i think it might be a little -- >> if i can just say in 2013, not only do you not call 14-year-old girls delicious, you don't call 44-year-old women delicious. i think it's inappropriate and i think willie and i are deeply offended. i think we need to strike out against this. too late? >> no, i think it's too late for donny. maybe mika. >> he is a 19th century man. stuck in the 21th century. >> i was so impressed. >> would you just stop? >> you were the guys who took it. i was like blown away by them and you guys were like yuck. >> i'm sorry, what were we like? >> i want to hear from mike

allen. >> speaking of thoroughbreds. >> exactly! >> how about mike allen? >> speaking of delicious. >> he is delicious! mike, we're excited! >> we will have great fun tonight and playbook cocktails with mika and joe. congratulations on "obsessed." we will see you talk about obsessed and other issues that obsessed joe. >> there you go. >> munchkins. >> this is going to be great. that really is. it. have we not decided? that is the best way to lose weight and i'm looking forward to the follow-up of loaded because you told us how to get rich and now you'll tell us the right way to get thin in your next book. >> proven out of 8 out of 10 doctors in 1948! it helps your circulation. >> mike, thank you. i can't wait. >> mike, that was delicious. >> okay. >> mike, what are your lead stories on politico this

morning? nra versus gabby giffords that fight is heating up. what is going on there? >> sir willie, this is a real game change. for the first time, the nra doesn't have the money advantage in a race. yesterday, the nra announced an ad by that the supposed beneficiary may not be so wild about. yesterday, the nra said it's going to spend $25,000 this week to advertise in favor of supporting in her home state senator kelly ayotte. she may be wish the nra would not support her and this reminds me of the larry flynt coming out and supporting mark sanford down there. not the sort of publicity he wanted. on the same day gabby giffords group announced in four months, they had raised $11 million. a huge figure for any type of super pak outside group.

the news is here for the first time the nra won't have the money advantage in this air war that we clearly can see is going to be going on both to tee up some other legislation which both sides know is coming. second, to it make this an issue in the 2014 congressional elections. >> you know what is sad? speaking of the nra, the gallup poll just came out. >> wait a minute. gallup? you still listen to gallup? >> seriously. i want to know. by the way, i used to always follow gallup closely. >> i feel sorry for you. >> i have to cut out off right here. this is an organization, richard, said mitt romney was going to win by 11 points. there has been no mea culpa. i went from following daily gallup tracking on my poll that i don't listen to any of their polls any more. when are they going to do a mea culpa or apologize and explain why we can ever trust them

again? no, i want richard to explain this and then you can talk. >> he is the brand guy. he is the brand guy. i think that brand has taken a very large hit. never. credibility, they lost it. >> donny, if you're gallup and you predict mitt romney is winning by 11 points and do you it for a month and you were as wrong as anything. then you don't do a mea culpa and you don't explain to the american people why you screwed up, why does anybody, other than guys that wear baby gap black t-shirts and do push-ups on television and call 14-year-old girls delicious and thoroughbreds. >> he is calling me out right now. >> you're a brand guy. let's be serious. how does gallup resurrect its brand? >> the american public has gotten used to polsters being wrong. >> this is massive. >> they made a wrong call. gallup is still a very respected points. >> they were 14 points off in the presidential contest. >> any poll we can find, they

have been wrong. >> hold on. this is like a quarterback in a super bowl taking off his helmet on the 50 yard line in the fourth quarter and throwing up and going i can't handle the pressure! you don't recover from some things. >> he do recover which is why i want to bring up my point. they brought up disappointingly that gun control is number ten on the list of importance to voters right now. >> it could be number one. they might have got their numbers wrong. >> which means number one. gallup on issues like that, there is a plus or negative nine. >> i think it's fair to say somebody who has looked at research his entire career misread it most of the time but has looked it at that basically i could put on this table the great companies ten instances they were brilliantly wrong and then ten instances brilliantly right. >> do you represent gallup? >> no, i don't. >> kind of a big one, though. the presidential election. >> it is. mike allen ask you on the gallup front. we just stumbled into this.

as a reporter who has one of the most important news organizations, do you pay as much attention to gallup? i'll just say it. a lot of people say they watch us. we used to always talk about gallup until gallup gives me an explanation, i'm not going to put their polls on my show on why they screwed up so royally. do you guys at politico have serious questions about gallup right now? an organization i loved and followed for years. go ahead. i'm sorry. >> what we learned from this we need to be more disciplined about presenting a couple of polls together. we used to be more inclined, especially with gallup, to use it by itself and saw another example of this on sunday in the virginia governor's race. lead story in "the washington post" has the republican up a big number, like nine. yesterday, nbc has that race tied. and they were measuring slightly different things. but what that poll taught us was that it's a jump ball.

and neither side has anything locked in. either one of those polls would have given you totally wrong idea what is going on. presenting gallup by itself we used to be more inclined to do we are always now more in the second breath going to say but, wait, other body of polling and also to include what the campaigns are saying. we used to discount internal information you get from campaigns. but now they have the resources to, in some cases have better numbers than polling companies. >> very quickly. until any polster understands this. >> do you know who does? >> and understands the hard lines. >> i'm glad you said that. you know who does? winner in the mark sanford race. these races are so hard, these special elections but bpp got the trend light right again. >> they get no respect. >> they are right. >> from the rest of the industry. >> you know what? they outperformed a lot of polls

in 2012 and they did it again with sanford. they saw a big surge going his way. he went from nine down to one up. then that trend line continued and they understand the online stuff, right? >> online, that's the way to go. >> for the record, final poll for gallup, november 5th, 2012 had romney 50, obama 49. and, of course, the president won 51-47. >> right. >> big margin of error. >> come on. you see -- >> are you going to say gallup is worse than anything else? >> gallup had mitt romney up but first inni a large you chunk. they adjust it at the end and then get it tied at the end. >> races do close also. >> yep. not this one. >> that's how races go. >> mike allen, can't wait to see you tonight! >> what fun. playbook cocktails. >> "obsessed." i'll give you a call after the

show. coming up delaware attorney general bo biden has a plan to keep the guns out of the mentally ill and he'll us on set. first sports. in the ninth inning everyone in the stadium thought this was a home run. only people who didn't? the umpires. show you what happens when "morning joe" comes right back. ♪ for seeing your business in a whole new way. for seeing what cash is coming in and going out... so you can understand every angle of your cash flow- last week, this month, and even next year. for seeing your business's cash flow like never before, introducing cash flow insight powered by pnc cfo. a suite of online tools that lets you turn insight into action.

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let's do a little sports. nba playoffs. the warriors how about them on the road? looking to even the series with the spurs in san antonio. golden state klay thompson career high 34 points and steph curry had 22. the warriors beat the spurs in texas and could easily be up 2-0 going back to california. they win this one the most exciting part of the night? that's a different game. but that's dwyane wade's jacket in the postgame press conference. >> raided my closet. >> what happened there? >> what happened? >> that's a guy from a totally different game unrelated to the highlights. here is the game that preceded that press conference. lebron scored 19 and biggest

margin of victory in playoff history. >> you think after a decade b.j. could press the right button. >> chicago had nine techs in this game. joakim noah was elected in the game. >> what was the most exciting part of the game if p.j. pressed the right button? there it is. that colorful jacket. >> baseball. you make the call. this is an easy call actually. a's and indians game. top of the ninth. rosales blasts one to center field. home run? replay. take a look. sure looks like the ball bounces off the rail, right? that's a home run pretty clearly. >> oh, my gosh. >> they called it a double and

they go back and look at the replay and they hold it up that it is a double! no home run. >> what were they looking at? >> they did a terrible job with the replay. how could you not see it on the replay? bob melvin the a's manager is ejected. >> oakland a's the lowest payroll. los angeles dodgers and los angeles angels huge spenders both in last place. >> how about boston red sox? playing great. playing great. >> got rid of all their big money players and actually doing well. >> coming up next, delaware attorney general bo biden. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. we went out and asked people a simple question:

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beau, great to have you here! >> great to be here, joe. >> so you've got -- you've got -- i think a pretty important plan that will help keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people. talk about it. >> look. this is directly responsive to the tragedy in connecticut. we came together nra, doctors, to come up with a plan to make sure that the people who we know are behind most of these mass shootings, these tragedies are people with mental illness. we wanted to change the law in the state of delaware and got the doctors together to impose upon the doctors to report when someone leaves their office that they believe someone is a risk to themselves or a risk to others and mandatory report to law enforcement and law enforcement to have duty to investigate it and if they believe that person is a risk to themselves or others and come back to my office and we file a petition to the court and say that person should be on a list and separate them from the weapons. >> nra supports this?

or re thorked with ythey worked? >> they were on a committee in our general assembly. >> they decided they would work with a biden? >> yes, they did. >> holy cow! >> look. my pop, as you know, 20 years has had a dialogue with those folks and this is important measure. i think -- in fact, they called it nra a model for how we address kind of these mental health issues as it relates to make sure we have gun safety. >> there is obviously a concern we need to protect against and that is how do you make sure that people who are mentally ill go get help and go get treatment without being afraid that their doctor is going to report them? >> i think that is an issue. >> to a governmental entity that is going to infringe on their second amendment rights? >> this is consistent with hippa and everything in between. they don't want anybody leave their office as that person

leaves their office is a danger to the community. the doctors at the end of the day ask for this. work with us hand in glove and stood with me in the press conference to announce it and consistent with the second amendment and sound common sense public policy. right now, you have a situation where the only people that are put on that list on the 1968 gun control act are people who have been adjudicated and mentally ill. very few people are adjudicated mentally ill these days. it's a small band with the people and this deals with the very people that we know are behind most, if not all, of the mass shootings the last 20 years. >> i wonder if there should be more to it. it's one thing if you're calling the police when a person is a concern to others but if someone is clearly struggling with mental health issues, shouldn't they be immediately sent to an existing and well-funded mental health care system that doesn't exist right now? >> that's a great point. a great point. these are with people who are

under the care of mental health professionals. we will find out about it from people treating them already and our governor who is a great leader on this fight has attempted to appropriate additional $3 million which sounds like a little bit of money but in our state a significant commitment to mental health professionals and our schools and make sure that especially kids going through mental health issues get the mental health needs, treatment they need. >> it's such a maze at this point. i've helped a few people along the way and trying to get someone the help they need is unbelievably difficult. >> who is against this? you have the nra on board. who is against this? >> if i keep talking about this somebody will probably be against this so i should keep my mouth shut. hopefully it goes to the senate

side and the governor will sign it into law. our governor i think is one of the best in the nation, he signed it into law yesterday, universal background chex ck in our state. connecticut families were there and we put it into law yesterday in the state of delaware. >> you feel like they are safeguards that will not discourage people from going to get the type of help and counseling they need? >> 1%. we made a big part of our presentation make sure that people go seek treatment if they need treatment. make sure that we have the resources to get treatment and these are very much people that are already getting treatment that are going to report in this way. the other part from the second amendment perspective the person who gets put on that list is going to have robust due process opportunity to challenge that finding in superior court or higher trial court. this kind of covers the bases. second amendment and hippa and privacy and make sure the people we know are behind most of these god awful tragedies are separated from weapons.

>> newtown is a perfect example, mika. you look at the fact that delaware's attorney general beau biden, thank you. >> thanks for having me. >> great to see you. >> tomorrow on "morning joe," congressman elijah cummings will join us in michigan along with debbie stabenow. we will be right back with much more on "morning joe." coming up, tom coburn. ♪

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come and get it ♪ ♪ make your mind up fast february 2013. governor chris christie underwent lapband surgery and has already lost more than 40 pounds october 2011, president bill clinton switched to an all vegan diet and lost over 25 pounds. march, 1912. president taft improved his appearance by installing a larger bathtub! this has been history of politicians and weight loss. >> larger bathtub! >> i knew i loved taft. welcome back to "morning joe." we still, sadly have donny deutsche with us and richard wolffe is here and joining us on the set best selling author walter isaacson and moderator in washington of "meet the press" david gregory. we have had an awful lot to talk about including coca-cola. this is big for you, mika.

we are not going to start with an obesity story. >> yes, we are. >> on a ben ghazi morning and cleveland. we are not going to do this. this is very big. coca-cola is looking to flex some criticism about how its products contribute to obesity but this is about supply. this is a thing like mcdonald's. a lot of times you say mcdonald's is doing this to avoid lawsuits. no, they are not. they are doing this to make more money because they are following the demand. what worked 20 years ago doesn't work in 2013. your book talks about it. people are changing their habits. >> we -- >> isn't that right, donny? >> i'm sorry. no, no. . a huge last night, the mika book party and doll la lamb ma was there and nelson mandela. >> singing "the way we were." and broke down at the end. >> this is an important book and a lot of inspirational stuff.

i met your co-author last night and she told me a store when you and her were interviewing me on the phone and you were on different phones, i didn't know at the time -- she since has lost 75 pounds. very overweight. i was talking very candidly and she said very hurtfully to her and motivated her how in business there is a bias against heavy people. >> they get paid less. >> oh, my god, control their lives. she said that was so upsetting to me but motivating and a harsh relate. >> the economics of it, somebody walks in and 75 or a hundred pounds overweight and you're immediately starting to think if you're running a big business like yourself you think about health care costs. you start thinking about is this person going to -- i mean, we hear it from one ceo after another who will say it off the record. saying, yeah, this is a real concern. >> donny is incredibly honest in

the book. it's extremely helpful and rough situation when you go there and it's raw but i think it will help a lot of people. >> we will be talking to coca-cola at some point. >> we have got a friend there. they really are -- >> shocked considering what you say about coca-cola all the time. i love it. >> you just said something a moment ago which is that coca-cola company does it because they want to follow the market and make money. >> just like mcdonald's. >> dopy is a true expert at this but sometimes corporations lead the market and create the market and create more mentalities and you see it with coke and pep sane others saying we have to get ahead of this and lead people to think more healthy and i think it causes an attitude and shift like your book does. >> the most brilliant example of that is a man that, obviously, you knew so well better than anybody else. one of the things that i was most surprising when i read your book was steve jobs' attitude. he doesn't try to figure out what the consumer wants. he said they daytona what they want and i'll tell them what

they want and i'll be damned if he didn't do that! he told us what we want! >> this is different, though. this is about trying to preserve the market share they have to avoid consumer backlash. i mean, this is like cigarettes. cigarettes talking about or even beer companies who advocate drinking more responsibly and they want to sell this product. of course, coca-cola has other products as well that i'm sure they would like to market, but i think this is just about being kind of, you know, a better citizen and acknowledging that they will accept perhaps less market shares so they don't get killed in terms of their market share. >> can i just say? the lead story of "the financial times." we will talk about it later. >> good. >> can i have three words before we get to ben ghazi? coke adds life. >> walter! do i let him do that?

>> let him have the last word. >> no, no. >> that is fine. they are doing some good things and get to that later when we get to double coverage. thank you very much. the obama administration is clashing with republicans in congress over the attack on the u.s. consulate in ben ghazi last year an incident that brings together issues of terror, diplomacy and politics. in emotional tomorrow on capitol hill the security chief questioned the government's handling of the militant raid that left four americans dead. >> the committee ea's labor on uncover what happened prior during and after the attack mats. it matters to me personally and it matters to my colleagues. it matters to the american public for whom we serve and, most importantly, excuse me. it matters to the friends and family of ambassador stevens,

sean smith, glenn doherty and tyrone woods who were murdered on september 11th, 2012. >> after the attack, u.n. ambassador susan rice originally suggested it was sparked by protesters online video mocking the prophet muhammad. diplomat gregory hicks says he was floored by that explanation. >> so fast forward, mr. hicks, to the sunday talk shows and ambassador susan rice. she blamed this attack on a video. in fact, she did it five different times. what was your reaction to that? >> i was stunned. my jaw dropped. and i was embarrassed. >> hicks, who served as ambassador stevens second in command, said he was demoted for questioning the administration's actions. he referenced an angry phone call he received from the chief of staff to then secretary of state hillary clinton who,

according to him, was upset that he spoke with a republican congressman without a state department lawyer present at the meeting. >> what did she have to say to you? >> she demanded a report on the visit. >> was she upset by the fact this lawyer -- this -- >> was upset. >> this boibt babysitter and spy, was she upset about that fact? >> she was very upset. >> this goes right to the person next to secretary clinton, is that accurate? >> yes, sir. >> mr. chairman, here is a guy with 22 years of outstanding service to our country. now they are obstructing because he won't -- he won't help them cover this up, he's an honorable man here telling the truth. now is getting this kind of treatment from the very people who praised him before. >> the state department denies claims that mr. hicks faced retaliation for speaking out. >> we talked about it last hour.

we are now getting into a very dangerous position for this administration. they have already been caught trying to bully and run over a 22-year state department veteran. for effectively demoting him. >> lisa myers reporting saying they dispute that. >> right. in fact, "the new york times" has a story effectively demoting him. and now they are coming out saying he's a liar. saying he doesn't remember the facts correctly. david gregory, this is where we get into dangerous territory with administration. sometimes they don't cut their losses, admit they made a mistake and move on. >> i think the critical questions here that are, in part, being obscured by partisan, this investigation has become is why the security situation, when it was deteriorating ben ghazi was not more addressed.

something the accountability review board was very critical of in its report. and why there seems to be so much gymnastics to describe what was going on. the people on the ground say this was a terrorist attack and everybody knew it and the minds of the administration was it was not. as a result, they didn't respond properly. all of those reports how they responded and when they responded and what was possible in military response is something that has been litigated and still be litigated in terms of what the facts were and what the military said at the time. but if you look at the talking points and how they were drafted and let's just remember. susan rice was saying on the talk shows, including "meet the press," what the intelligence community agreed she should say and that is something that the director of national intelligence has come out and said. so she is, by that definition, more of a peripheral player here. the question still remains about why there was at least sloppiness with regard to why

they were describing this in the way that they were when it very quickly became apparent there was a terrorist attack. >> walter, the lead story in "the new york times" this morning talks about how this state department officer was retaliated against after he questioned the administration's line. this is -- this has happened once or twice before, hasn't it? >> it has but let's all remember the whole context here. this is all coming out. this is a pretty good democracy. other countries where this could be covered up or people would really get retaliated against. we are now talking about somebody who got to talk about this. it was a u.s. government official who got to testify about it, who may have been given a desk job for a while but now will probably have a fine career. it is not torture. it is not, you know, somebody being imprisoned. it is how the american system works, which is sometimes messy. somebody makes a mistake and

somebody should not have made a phone call getting upset but it comes down our system is good. >> did cheryl mills cross the line by calling -- >> i don't know exactly what she said but in retrospect it probably was not the smartest way to make that phone call. on the other hand, it wasn't some criminal conspiracy to make everything secret. it all comes out and i think we should be proud of the way it works. >> david, it's donny. i have a question. i think ben ghazi is a boobytrap for the republicans because i think come 2016, they will keep coming back to it to go after hillary and i think it has a sticky factor and i think they will take their eye off the ball and i don't think this is going to stick. >> you may very well be right, donny. this is something been around a while, obviously, since the attack and the questions that have been raised as a political matter, i don't think it has dented former secretary clinton but questions will still be raised about it particularly who

is making decisions about security and why there wasn't more of an effort to shore up security in a place like ben ghazi. as i talk to republicans about this over the past several months i think there is a larger issue here. that there is a disagreement ideologically, philosophically with the administration as a way saying they would not be on the front line of fighting terrorism into some of these countries because they wanted a more joint effort in dealing with the post conflict stage of these countries like libya and we now know that there is, a, chaos, b, a lot of weapons and, c, islamist jihadi elements that are starting to band together in north africa and al qaeda has a presence there as well. the real complainant they view the administration soft on terrorism and somehow this is an illustration of that. again, that will be fiercely

debated as well because as information on the other side of this. >> hold on one second. before you move on, let's put this in the proper perspective and let's talk about what this about at the time it went down and susan rice was trotted out with talking points and, cia talk. at the time this went down it was in the middle of what we thought was a hotly contested presidential election. barack obama's line was, "i'm tough on terrorism." and the last thing they wanted to do was get the truth out that al qaeda, or at least an off-shoot of al qaeda, killed the first u.s. ambassador since 1979 because that got in the way of the narrative and they were all too clever by half and since then, they have been scrambling. we even saw it in the debates. candy crowley was very confused about what the president said right after ben ghazi. you remember that very awkward part of that debate. >> absolutely.

>> the president couldn't even get his story straight for a couple of weeks. so that's the backdrop of this and this happens during elections. but we have to remember that in, what month is it now? time moves so quickly. we're in may, of, i think, 2013. >> that goes to all of the verbal gymnastics about the talking points you're right happened in the context of this election. not only a time when the administration argument was al qaeda was diminished but it's also at a point where the ben ghazi operation happens. the u.s. has a role in that but there is real questions about what kind of role the united states wants to play after gadhafi is removed and what kind of footprint the united states wants to have in this part of the world that gets fiercely debated. let's also remember a big aspect of this that was simply a tragedy that happened. and not all of this is so clean in terms of who didn't do what,

who made a mistake or who deliberately made a mistake. these things happen in real-time and mistakes can happen at the time that fall short of what -- and, joe, you are certainly, you know, articulating the argument, that some republicans make that this at ints cynical core the president who didn't want to call it what it was and that is really to keep being debated. that has not been definitively resolved, i don't think, by this hearing. >> i don't think you need congressional hearings to know that presidents of both parties scramble during reelections and do what they shouldn't do under pressure. >> no disputing the backdrop you just described and no disputing that there was perhaps turmoil or even a conscious effort to figure out how to frame it, but breaking the lawing, covering it up, watergate this sort of rabid almost intent to sort of bring the president down, that's the part i dispute that i've seen over the past few months,

richard wolffe. these hearings are fascinating and a lot of good and important questions. >> i do love the idea that the white house, the president had this tremendous control over the narrative and they all shaped how it was being framed. i know time has passed quickly for some people, but just think back to that moment and actually not just the reporting of that moment, but for several weeks afterwards, throughout the media, throughout the media, around the world, there was contemporaneous event saying the events in ben ghazi were, in some ways, related to what happened in cairo. this wasn't created out of thin air by this white house. it was wildly reported for several weeks after as well. was there an attempt to reconcile one set of reports with another? absolutely. and, i mean, i don't know. walter, but in the heat of war, in the heat of war, where you've

got reporters also on the ground getting it wrong, how common is this? >> it's a fog of war and david gregory is right. things got messed up and things weren't clear. but i can't really subscribe to what joe said which is that that would make it seem that the cia, with all of its reports and its talking points, was part of a vast conspiracy to help reelect the president. >> i don't think that is what joe is saying. >> walter, i don't think i said that. go back and look at the tape several times. >> you're saying that it was sort of a conspiracy of the administration. >> i don't know. i'm not saying that it was a conspiracy, walter. i'm saying this is what presidents and white houses do. >> and i think you're right on that. >> in re-election campaigns. >> completely agree with joe. >> which is there is a tendency to want to get your story out right. there is a tendency to want to make the narrative work in your behalf. but you also have a whole lot of other people as richard and david said, in this fog writing talking points and writing intelligence briefs.

i think it was some honest mistakes here, not -- >> but i think it's a fair question, walter, to ask why and, again, this doesn't necessarily go to some larger point about conspiracy. >> exactly. >> but in terms of facts that are emerging now, why, in this environment, wouldn't you be as inclusive as you can of initial information? the initial talking points we now see through reporting indicated that there were islamic irradical elements involved and that was taken out and the cia director testified on capitol hill he thought it was terrorism from get-go and they, obviously, felt that on the ground there. why was that sort -- why was that taken out and not listed as kind of the range of options that we were trying to get to the bottom of given that fog of war? you chalk that up to sloppiness or something worse but is part of this mosaic right now. >> two explanations. petraeus testified that because he was trying to help with a narrative, or he testified that because he believed it.

and i'm still willing to think maybe he testified like that because he believed it. >> i think it's indisputable, your point, joe. of course, if he does not want to seem vulnerable at the time, he is a weak on terrorism, that's what you do. it doesn't make him evil. it makes him a president running for office. so you start to get the words cover-up conspiracy, it takes on different versus. get this out this way. i don't think -- it's inarguable at this particular time, frankly. >> duh! >> it was a cia operation! >> this is why we have donny deutch on. david gregory, thank you so much. why don't we end it right there? walter, stay with us. >> hands across the ocean is what it is. >> david, do we have any "meet the press" plans yet? >> we will talk to daryl ice on the program about the meaning of this week. we will keep it going. >> fantastic, david.

sounds great. >> thanks. ahead on "morning joe," they have any called the knee generation and entitled narcissistic. they are like you, donny, but could they be the greatest generation? that is the cover of "time" magazine. show it to you next. up next, senator tom coburn joins us from capitol hill. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. ♪ with the new staples rewards program you get 5% back, on everything. everything. everything. everything. everything? [ all ] everything? everything. [ male announcer ] get free shipping and 5% back on everything your business needs. that was easy.

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i just want to say i know senator coburn feels very strongly about his amendments and we have agreed to take them up and vote on them. but i just -- and every senator has the right to do anything they want. but i just want to lay it out here for the american people.

this is a public works bill dealing with water infrastructure. it is is not a bill about guns. it is not a bill about a woman's right to choose. it is not a bill about gay rights or gay marriage. it's not a bill about those very hot button issues that we know divide us. >> all right. that was senator barbara boxer making the case for her bill on water resources yesterday. the senate rejected an amendment proposed by senator tom coburn. the raeamendment would have alld gun owners to carry firearms to lands owned by the army corps of engineers. with us on capitol hill is the republican senator from oklahoma, senator tom coburn. good to have you back on the show. >> good morning. how are you? >> good. did you hear senator boxer? >> i did. >> do you have a response? >> i actually heard her yesterday and this morning. i've heard it before. remember. in 2010, everybody said you

can't dare let guns go into the national parks and, of course, the rapes and murders and robberies and assaults are down about 85% since we did that. and now everywhere in the united states, if you're following your state laws, you can carry your gun to either protect yourself or whatever. the fact is violence has decreased, safety is up. the only place you can't do that is on corps land. corps land has more visitors and more rapes and more murders and violence than we ever had in the parks but for some reason they don't want is to express a second amendment right. we ought to harmonize what the public policy is, whether it's the bureau of reclamation, forest service and national parks, all of the blm land, you can now follow your state laws on those lands. >> so, tom, what is your response to senator boxer saying, well, we should just talk about resources and not

talk about issues like guns in this bill? wait. is this the appropriate place to put this amendment? >> yeah. they were very good to allow me an amendment and the reason they did is because harry denied me an amendment on the gun bill on one that would have passed an actually solved the problem which he promised to give me. so i think, you know, the fact is we ought to be worried about making sure that people who shouldn't have guns, people on the do not buy list don't get them, rather than restricting people who are good, great citizens from carrying out their own responsibilities and expressing their second amendment rights. so i'll eventually get this amendment. took me two times to get the parks and the forest service and i'll eventually get it and what i'll do is publicize every rape that goes on corps land and say

a good portion of them wouldn't happened if we would have passed this amendment and we will eventually get there. >> on the hill a lot of people talking about the ben ghazi hearings yesterday. what is your state from what you learned from the state department official? >> i think the state department has real trouble. having sit on the intelligence committee and seen the review of e-mails that went back and forth as they developed the list, there's a glaring problem there that will eventually come out and i can't talk about it now. but an omission that was given to the intelligence committee. >> what can you talk around it a little more? >> i can't. i can't. i cannot do that and keep my obligation to what -- i can't talk about it other than to say that i think there was a glaring omission in terms of what was submitted to the intelligence committee. >> that will come out later, obviously. okay. i guess that just leaves us with talking about why he shaved his beard. >> yeah. >> let's talk actually about --

what is that? >> it's a mystery. i can't wait to hear it. >> we will hear about it and i guess it's spring and it gets warmer so he shaves his beard. every spring. every spring. >> that's not what i was talking about but okay. >> i thought you were talking about that mystery. tom, let's talk about what i love talking to you about and that is the grand bargain. the possibility that we are going to act responsibly about the debt, long-term debt. we talked about a lot of other issues, ben ghazi and guns and you name it. there are thousand other issues going. you and i both know in the long run, it's the death that is going to determine how this country looks, how our children live 20 years from now economically. where are we? >> we are having more discussions and more communication between the white house and members of the senate than ever have been before. i think the president sincerely wants to get a big deal. i think he understands. you know, joe and mika, this country is posed to boom if, in

fact, we would restore the confidence with the leadership that is here in washington. it's primed. we're primed from both competitive in the standpoint, primed from an energy standpoint, primed from a capital sitting on the sidelines. all we need is confidence and leadership. >> you're excited about america -- we have so many talking about how america's best days are behind us. you, i guess, like me, you're excited about america's economic future. things do look pretty good for us, don't they, in the long run? >> if we actually make the hard choices. if we continue to ignore the hard choices, then they won't. look. we got $86 trillion in unfunded liabilities and net assets of the whole country of 83 trillion and all of the private assets so we are already broke as a nation. the question is can we grow out of that and make changes and can we reform the tax code and be fair, reform the tax code? can we save medicare and improve

it and can we secure social security? the question is lack of leadership to get it done. i'm willing to do what i have to do regardless of party or principle to solve the problem. my hope is, and i believe it to be true, that the president really wants to solve this and i look forward to working with him on it. >> walter isaacson is here with a question not about your bead. walter? >> we are talking historically why is it hard to get things done these days. there seems to me a time between a gun amendment or water rights bill or not getting a grand bargain out of the finance committee and it's partly because we don't do things on capitol hill the way we used to which is a regular business committees work together and have to put out bills, et cetera. i was wondering would senator coburn, what he thought about changing back the way we do business on capitol hill to get more closer to the regular order of business, the committee

structures, so that things are less partisan and done more in committee. >> well, that's easily done. what you do is you have majority leader that doesn't try to make every bill something that creates a political advantage. i mean, look at this bill. it's not being run by harry reid but run by barbara boxer and david vitter. they will negotiate a deal and we will get through that bill and it's going to get done and it came through committee. the problem is most of the bills that come to the floor don't come through a committee because they want a partisan outcome and the charirmans don't want to ply that game and not in my party. as long as the senate is used for the 2014 election and that is the primary goal. >> i think that is harry reid's moat mode of operation. he has has been dishonest with me and not kept his word and he has played games. you know?

we have done our own. we have done our own damage to that in response to it. so what we have is people pointing fingers at each other. what we need is same thing. we knee leadership. the majority leader will run the senate and let the committees operate and put it on the floor and until it is invoked everything is fair game. the whole idea of the senate was to allow anything so it could be discussed so the american people could see what is going on. why should we say 1 out of 100 and why it's different than the house. why should you be limited in your ability to discuss and offer and change a bill? whether it's germane or not, comes a time when you can't do nongermane amendments but with walter's question the presumption is you should never be able to offer a nongermane amendment to the bill. >> you've been in washington almost 20 years now off and on. do you think what harry reid is doing is different from what

other majority leaders have done in the past? >> absolutely, absolutely. >> how? >> well, the first two years here i was here -- let me give you an example. remember the bridge to nowhere? >> yeah. >> i offered that amendment. that was against a republican colleague. two republican colleagues, as a matter of fact. they could have object to that amendment. they didn't object to the amendment being offered. they could have stopped it right then by objecting but they knew if they did, then that would unwind the senate. so what happened is ted stevens for a period of time tried to keep us in coreum call and eventually boom. he won the amendment 86-14. he beat me. but the point is think where we would have been on earmark had we not ever offered that amendment nongermane as it was? >> and -- >> so -- >> and so before we go, let's follow up on what walter said.

i agree completely about the fact there is not regular order up there. which is for people that aren't familiar with the workings of congress, you got committees that look at bills and they pass them, it goes to the floor and you go through this regular order. and it's how congress works. it's how washington works. i hear more democrats and more republicans, rank and file democrats and republicans, complain about 90% of them that are up there in the house and the senate, complaining that congress doesn't work the way it's supposed to work, that you have these crises and three or four people go into the back rooms, they make deals that exclude 90% of the membership. >> joe, i'd make this point pto you. not many u.s. senators so voluntarily leave the finance committee. two years i was on it with the problems in front of our country we did not one thing to solve

medicare, solve social security. overhaul the tax structure and we didn't do anything. that is leadership. and my big complaint is harry reid is a nice guy. i like him. but i think he has been a failure as a majority leader for the senate in terms of keeping the history of the senate and the progress of the senate in line with what it was intended to be by our founders. >> okay. senator tom coburn, thank you so much. we will be looking for a response from that. >> great to have you. >> i'm sure you'll get one. >> i think you'll get one. by the way, mark sanford is coming your way. make sure that you keep your wallet in your back pocket because he'll make you -- we are talking about the cheapest man on capitol hill. he doesn't like to share his money. >> he doesn't. >> i think you have to buy your own meals. >> yep. >> thank you, tom. >> see you.

>> greatly appreciate it. he is not going to comment on sanford going back to washington! lindsey took the bait yesterday. walter, what you're saying is so important. if you want to know what congress is dysfunctional, talk to 90% of the congressman and senators. >> they all say it. >> they want to leave because not regular order any more and they can't do their jobs. >> when i first came up and you can read the book on lyndon johnson. great committee chairmans. they would pull it together and go to floor. i think that has helped destroy the ability of congress to get things done is they have abandoned the structure where people sort of found a way to get a bill out of a committee and they vote on it on the floor. >> as tom said, you used to have a senate where a democrat or a republican knew, if i gunk up the works here, it's going to come back around to get me.

we have got to figure out how to work together, whether we win or lose the votes. >> as he said, there are a few examples of it now. david vitter bill on the banks. that is done in committee and up by partisan. >> no doubt about it. coming up next, mika's new book "obsessed" we will talk to dr. david kats and reverend al sharpton will join the conversation and tell us what happened to the rest of him. to paraphrase paul mccartccarth. my mantra?

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up next we reve the coval and u the "time" magazine for this week. >> this is a good one. we will show you the cover with executive editor who explains why the millennials might be great next generation. the only problem they have to stop taking pictures of themselves!

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>> this is deserve. >> no, no. >> this picture. >> so good. >> so disturbing. >> this is such a good story. >> tell us about it. attorney to cover. tell us about the me, me, me, me generation! >> you missed five me's! >> well, the ma lillittl millen strong in this generation. partly because they are so huge and partly because politicians are spending lots of money what makes these people tick. >> when you figure that out if you could let the parents know. i love this millennials are lazy and titled and still live with their parents. >> they are lazy and take pictures of themselves and how they operate. check, check, check.

we sent joel stein to probe the mind of the millennial. he discovered good news. we like to bring good news when we can. great things about mill lynn yappiya -- mill lineals. we are gla blaming them for their technology. try to imagine if we had instagram at woodstock. >> oh, dear god! >> speakthey are responding to world of increasing connection. you say i want to be these things, doctors and lawyers. for millennials they feel like they can come to work and e-mail the ceo. >> that is the problem.

>> i feel so strongly about this. i did nothing for 25 , 30 years hire young people. to your point, feel when do i get the corner office. i can do anything on my own. i don't need any structure. i don't need -- >> coffee pot. >> did you see the thing with the kid and the policeman yesterday about videotaping this 14-year-old videotaping a policeman who was in a no parking zone? officer, why are you parking in a no parking zone? what is your badge number, officer? a sense of titlement and nonreference what came before. i know i sound like a crusty old guy but i've seen the difference over the years. i hope to god you're right but i fear deeply. >> how do you respond to the crusty old guy? >> first of all, there have always been crusty old guys and women. >> no dispute about the crusty old guy part. >> trashing the generation and

happened with every generation. the generation of the jazz age, disaster. what are these people doing? out dancing all night and how will they help america grow? >> then the depression ten years later. but go ahead. >> to answer the question about entitlement the flip side of that is innovation. we talk a big game in this you country we need innovation and entrepreneurs. they are e-mailing the ceos you have been doing this an entrenched job and i like it this way. i will have seven jobs by the time i'm 26. >> both of those things suck! >> what? >> i'm telling you core of american ingenuity? steve jobs. a guy that that transformed everything. steve jobs, you want to talk about blowing things up, bill gates -- you would suggest. >> i played outside the lines my whole life. my point is, i think nobody

wants to put in the hours. i think don't an assistant at a company of 10,000 people on their first day should feel entitled to e-mail the ceo. i think they should have enough reverence to know that maybe that person who's worked 30 years has so much going on in their day. >> obviously he does audiocassette about this. >> you talked about it on the show before. with sam and krystal at times. there's a movement happening now on the idea of national service. when you have a millennial generation that has trouble getting jobs, but also wants to be something larger than themselves, is sick of hearing baby boomers say follow your fashion, it's all about you. it will be helpful, the nice chart in joel stein's story of each generation, you have that greatest generation. what distinguished that generation? they all had to be involved in some form of service that was larger than me, me, me. that's what we're lacking in our society today. not only the feeling that you

should do it, but even the opportunity to do it. >> yes. >> to join corps, whether it's a conservation corps or legal corps or health corps or the marine corps or the coast guard. that should be an opportunity and an expectation of each new generation. >> i think that's right. and it leads me to another point about millennials which is another positive thing. milennials are nice. they actually are willing to be accepts of other people and to sort of be more positive than my generation, gen x. as we were coming of age we were sort of sitting back, wearing flannel, being pretty scynical about things. >> i think this cover is amaze ing. it's going to generate conversations over dinner tables as well. there's a fantastic article on syria. >> you can also wear flannel and be hopeful. as we talk about syria, you have a smackdown between two giants

of foreign policy. who are they and what do they say? >> one of them is named john mccain. >> he's a biggy. >> he makes the case for intervention. he says the takeaway there is he says our values are our interests and interests are our vam values. he talks about president clinton intervening in bosnia. he says there are atrocities happening here, we're americans, we have responsibilities. >> that's a heavyweight battle. >> he thinks interventional action costs us so much more. two very compelling points of view. >> it's the basics in american foreign policy between realism and idealism. brilliantly done here. mccain is very crusading.

it's good to have that debate. >> do you know walters is so smart? he's got the aspen institute. i'm going to have an institute. >> thoroughbreds. the cover is the many, many, many generation. why the millenials will save us. check out the website for never before seen google time lapse images. very cool. we're at the exclusive el chorro lodge in paradise valley, arizona where, tonight, we switched their steaks with walmart's choice premium steak. it's a steakover! this was perfect. it was really good! one of the best filets i've had. see, look how easy that is to cut.

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up next, the obama administration pushes back against accusations by a state department staffer who says he was effectively demoted after speaking out on benghazi. highlights from the emotional hearing next on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] when you take shortcuts,

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good morning. it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast. it's 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. willie and i invite you to lie in bed for another three hours and listen to "morning joe." >> it's kind of a beautiful day. why don't you wake up? >> no. don't wake up. stay in bed. it's a beautiful day. as you take a live look at new york city with us onset, donny deutsche. he will say things that fascinate and horrify you. also, richard walsh. >> we begin with a story out of cleveland. 52-year-old ariel castro is due in court in just a few hours, charged with four counts of kidnapping and three counts of rape just days after three women and a young girl were rescued from his home. castro's two brothers were also arrested, but have not been charged with any crimes at this time. the cleveland plain dealer reports castro allegedly offered all three women rides between 2002 and 2004 to lure them into his home. amanda berry, gina dejesus and michele knight all lived in captivity for at least nine

years. never leaving the house except for brief trips to the backyard. big crowds were on hand yesterday afternoon as dejesus returned home. while family and friends are undoubtedly still in shock, the new details in the investigation are, to say the least, difficult to hear. according to a police report, the suspect impregnated one of the victims five times and punched her in the stomach until she miscarried. it goes on to say one of the young women was forced to deliver the baby of another in a kiddy pool. meanwhile, neighbors are criticizing police for failing to investigate the home despite at least two reports of strange behavior there. officials say they have no record of the calls. >> it just boggles the mind. this could have been going on for as long -- since 2002. in this house, in this

neighborhood, and nobody knew. the cops didn't follow through on -- on opportunities to save these girls? shocking. >> as the father of daughters, you hear this, sometimes you just -- it's incomprehensible what human beings are cable pab of. as you're reading the words, it's unfathomable. it's the beasts that live within people. there's no words. as far as the police, you know, you've got to wonder in a situation like this how there was never a knock at the door. but i think we're going to continue to hear that. >> why their cases were essentially given up on. i don't know. >> the police and the mayor, too, have been adamant -- you know, you had all these neighbors saying we saw things. we saw women in the backyard. we saw strange things happening and we called the cops. the police said again yesterday over and over we never got these phone calls.

you have conflicting reports about neighbors who suspected things and said they tried to reach out. police say they combed through all their call records. they have a system that would have picked it up. they say they never received those calls. it's hard to make those two pieces fit. that's what the police are saying. let's move on to the obama administration clashing with republicans in congress over the attack on the u.s. consulate in benghazi last year. an incident that brings together issues of terror, diplomacy and politics. emotional testimony on capitol hill. the embassy's former security chief questioned the government's handling of the militant raid that left four americans dead. >> the committee labors to uncover what happened prior, during and after the attack matter. it matters to me personally. and it matters to my colleagues. it matters to the american public for whom we serve. and most importantly -- excuse

me -- it matters to the friends and family of ambassador stevens, shawn smith, gwen dougherty and tyrone woods who were murdered on september 11th, 2012. >> after the attack, u.n. ambassador susan rice originally suspected the assault was sparked by protests against an online video mocking the prophet mohammed. gregory hicks said he was floored by that explanation. >> so fast forward, mr. hicks, to the sunday talk shows and ambassador susan rice. she blamed this attack on a video. in fact, she did it five different times. what was your reaction to that? >> i was stunned. my jaw dropped. and i was embarrassed. >> hicks, who served as ambassador stevens' second in command says he was, quote,

demoted for questioning the administration's actions. he referenced an angry phone call he received from the chief of staff to then secretary of state hillary clinton. who, according to him, was upset that he spoke with a republican congressman without a state department lawyer present at the meeting. >> what did she have to say to you? >> she demanded a report on the visit. >> was she upset by the fact that this lawyer was -- >> she was upset. >> this babysitter, this spy, whatever you want to call him, was not allowed to be in that? first time it's ever happened, all the congressional allegations you've ever -- >> she was very upset. >> so this goes right to the person next to secretary clinton. is that accurate? >> yes, sir. >> mr. chairman, here's a guy with 22 years of outstanding service to our country. now they're obstructing -- because he won't -- he won't help them cover this up, he's an honorable man here telling the truth now is getting this kind

of treatment from the very people who praised him before. >> he was in the state department, willie, for 22 years. for the first time in 22 years he talks to the congressional delegation. they go over and investigate these things. if you're in the state department, you talk to them. he's getting yelled at for not doing that. he's saying what "the new york times" is talking about now, he was effectively demoted. they got pissed off at him for what he said about susan rice's testimony. which was clearly false. i'm not saying that she did it intentionally. we talked about it on this show. she did not. she was handed -- somebody handed her talking points that were false. it appears knowingly false. because you had people that were over there in the state department saying it was knowingly false. and this guy is effectively demoted. >> the question that was reinforced yesterday was that, yes, those talking points were made by someone. but they didn't come from the

ground. mr. hicks said that yesterday. said he was stunned when he heard ambassador rice say that on the sunday shows, because they had no inkling they were under attack. they didn't know that there was a video. they didn't know that was even a possibility. there was no report from ambassador stevens about a protest outside the gates. the question is where did those talking points come from if they didn't come from the people who actually were on the ground? >> you know, lisa myers is right now with us in washington. she's nbc news senior investigative correspondent. you've been following these hearings closely, lisa. you know, we've been very careful on this program since this happened, since september 11th, to look before we've leapt. there are a lot of people stirring up conspiracy theories without knowing what they're talking about. just because it was the obama administration. i give them about as much credit this morning as i give people against the iraq war without knowing the details first. in this case, though, you look at the testimony. forget the republicans. forget the congressman. you look at the state department officials, these professionals,

you're absolutely floored by what they're saying. put this in perspective for us in all your time in washington, d.c. >> there was an extraordinary moment where the raw emotion over the politics in the room. here you had three highly credible career state department employees who were putting their careers on the line because they believe the full truth has not been told about what happened before, during and after the attacks in benghazi. they expressed frustration over inadequate security at the embassy. they expressed their frustration over their inability to get any helps for their colleagues in benghazi that night. they talked about efforts to suppress in their view the truth. they believe the independent review that was done was not adequate because it did not examine the decision making and the actions of the most senior state department officials. clearly, hicks believes that

there was a concerted effort to shut him up. he was demoted. he was chewed out. he essentially says he now has a job with no real responsibility. >> are your surprised -- i guess as a congressman who's been on these delegations before, are you surprised that a state department official called and yelled at a 22-year-old -- 22-year foreign service diplomat for talking to a congressional delegation? >> well, i've been in washington long enough that i'm not really surprised. now, i should say that the state department or people representing sheryl mills and hillary clinton say that that did not happen. that sheryl mills was very supportive of the people in benghazi and only called to see if they needed more help and to see how they were doing. >> so are they saying -- are they saying he's lying? >> in front of a congressional

committee? are they accusing him now of lying in front of a congressional committee? >> they're disputing the accuracy of his memory. >> wow. donny, donny. this doesn't pass the sniff test. you know what? you know what we're about to get into? we're about to get into some very dangerous territory for the administration. they demote this guy, and now they're doing what we've seen too often where you try to now call him a liar. >> this has clearly -- >> saying he doesn't remember? >> i don't think this guy will forget the events of september 11th and beyond for the rest of his life. >> you started the day going, okay, this is going to be a republican political circus. you ended the day going, yuck. this clearly has a yuck factor. the question going -- the big question for this country in 2016, does it have the sticky factor for hillary clinton. i mean, this is obviously going to be the football, richard, the republicans don't let go of. the question, the american

public has a strange way of deciding what they want to hold on to, what they don't want to hold on to, vis-a-vis a potential presidential candidate. >> i think democrats after the 9/11 commission thought they might have something out of that when it came to president bush. and there was no stickne nesine it at all. let's just compare obviously the scale of the events are different. but the reaction to an official report. this report, this independent review, including people like tom pickering. tom pickering is hugely respected. with the u.n. ambassador for bush 41 in the gulf war, first gulf war, these are not lightweight people who came up with this independent review. now, we've got to separate out how sheryl mills, who by the way is well known for chewing out people. the idea that sheryl mills was shouting at officials for doing something that transgressed what she thought was her boss's position, not unusual. not saying it's justified, but that's sheryl mills for you.

the treatment of a whistle blower or a senior official, you've got to be super careful. she clearly crossed the line. that is very different that suggesting that susan rice who was reading from cia approved talking points was misleading the american people. who was most emotional in the hearing was what could have been done differently. which is what this independent review did. could they have scrambled jets, used air power? this is not in the movies. this was a surprise attack, whatever you think the reason was for it. they're overwhelmed. the few people protecting the ambassador calling in jets from several hours away to have precision target bombs somehow laser guided by some -- >> that's a democratic talking point. >> no. >> yes, it is. it is the talking point.

i hear it every day over the past several days. >> where are the jets going to come from? >> do you think you and i know what would have saved people in benghazi better than somebody sitting in tripoli that was an expert, number two guy for the united states state department? here in the comfort of this studio, in midtown manhattan, are we just dismissing what hicks and the other people are saying? >> the independent review led by someone like tom pickering has a better idea than any of us including the guy in tripoli. >> lisa? >> joe and mika, one point needs to be made is that when hicks asked for first military flyover and the -- the dispatch of a four-person special ops team which was in tripoli to benghazi, no one knew that there was going to be another attack in a few hours. no one knew when there would be another attack or if there would be another attack. i think what appalls some in the

special forces community is that more effort wasn't made to get someone there, no matter the degree of difficulty. now, i agree with richard. there has been no information to contradict what the pentagon has said. they didn't have the ability to get anyone there. but that begs the question, how can you send diplomats to in this case who were incredibly brave, even heroic, how can you send them to a post where there is inadequate security for the level of risk there. where you have no contingency plan to come help them if there is an attack? still ahead on "morning joe," "the new york times's" john podhoretz will weigh in on the potential political fallout from yesterday's benghazi committee. mika's book of stats from the man who knows all to well about food addiction. half of what used to be a much larger reverend al sharpton

joins us. who paul mccartney was singing about several years ago when he said i'm not half the man i used to be. >> dr. david katz of yale's prevention research center will be here as well. first, bill karins managing to put a little meat on his bones. he's with us now with the forecast. bill, what's it looking like out there? >> didn't realize you guys were checking me out. good morning, everyone. let's talk about what's happening with the storm over new england. yesterday three inches of rain in new york city. one of the rainiest may days ever reported. we still have to deal with this storm. oh, by the way, this is the same storm that brought snow to the midwest about ten days ago. it's finally on the exit heading out. you'll see the rain. it's still plaguing us over areas around new york city down the jersey shore. some of this is going to move into areas of southern new england shortly. have the umbrella handy. it's not going to rain all day. there'll be an hour or two of rain, then it will dry out, sun may come out, it will probably rain again. in the midwest we have thunderstorms that were strong, even severe yesterday.

one line of storms dying right now as it goes through the ozarks. later on this afternoon additional strong storms from chicago to indianapolis, right through central illinois into st. louis. possibility of some damaging hail and wind with those storms. also oklahoma city to wichita falls, dallas/ft. worth to austin, texas, you also could see some strong storms later on today. here's your thursday forecast. notice all the thunderstorm icons. again, hardly anyone is going to get their entire day washed out. it'll be hit and miss storms that'll roll in and then they'll roll on out. oh, by the way, still some of the best weather this entire spring has been found by our friends up there in the pacific northwest. 74 today in seattle. tomorrow, you are 79 degrees. it has been amazingly dry and warm in the northwest while there's still a lot of people out there that are waiting for that forecast in their area. foggy morning in the mid-atlantic. the fog is going to break out this afternoon. not a bad day at all. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] here's a word you should keep in mind. unbiased.

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unbelievable. welcome back to "morning joe." i'll tell you what, last night, mika, obsessed, your book. we had a great book party. miles and all. >> there's miles. >> yes. he's a great friend. i think miles has done four brzezinski books now. he has. a wonderful night, donny. >> miles is one of the top ad guys. fantastic guy. a lot of love in the room. because i think mika has a real cross-section of respect.

obviously people in the media community. young women look up to her. it was a great crowd. but it's an important, important book. i'm just fwoigoing to do a 30-sd plug. you've had two best sellers. this is at a different level because i think this touches everyone. >> we did a philadelphia event. usually we go there and people ten minutes in will ask questions about you. unflattering questions about you. they want to talk about the show. on this, we're there for 90 minutes. not a single question about the show. they all wanted to talk about "obsessed." >> for two reasons. it touches everybody on a human level. particularly for women. everybody struggles with weight. obviously the good reverend is going to talk about that. it also touches on everything political at the same time. it's very rare to bring those. if you are a pundit type and if you're an "us" magazine type either way, you're going to find -- >> what's so fascinating about this, katie couric talked about it. mika taped an hour show with katie yesterday. she said what this book does that no other book does, whether

you're 118 and your set point is 135 like mika or you're 250, it's not healthy on either side. mika lived an unhealthy life at 118 pounds. >> a dishonest life. >> and a dishonest life. a lot of people around her, you know, paid for that. or whether you're like reverend al or diane who helped mika research and write this book was 75 pounds over. on both sides of that spectrum it's unhealthy. both sides are obsessed. >> people look at mika, oh, my god. she's beautiful. she's a star on tv. when they find out, oh, my god, the demons. she has demons like me. that is what brings everybody in. >> that's why they served -- >> coming up now, the director of the health prevention and research center and editor of the journal of childhood obesity, dr. david katz. he doesn't like my shirt. also with us host of msnbc's "politics nation" and president of the national action network,

reverend al sharpton. david, let's talk -- let's talk about this. talk about, first of all, blame versus responsibility on obesity. >> i love this point. >> there's so many people that walk around like chris christie. and they're judged. and obese people who it seems like everything's stacked against them. they try 1,000 different diets. nothing works. why? >> right. well, first, i want to say, mika, i love the book. and i love you for writing the book. because you are empowering people with your honesty. i think that's beautiful. second thing i want to say quickly, joe, is if you're not obsessed with food and for that matter, you're not really normal, because food and sex are about survival. obsession with them is hard wired into us. food is about surviving in our own lifetime. sex is about surviving as a species. >> right. >> so the problem is we have these native human obsessions in a very nonnative habitat. and that's what gets governor christie into trouble or you, mika, or all of us.

food is a good thing. we want more. getting more is success. in fact, we refer to it in economic terms. we're breadwinners. we make dough. we bring home the bacon. we're bringing home too much bacon. >> we are. and it doesn't matter whether, again, you're 75 pounds over or like mika, you were 15 pounds lower than you should have been. it is -- it's constant. you're just constantly obsessed with it. how do you get past that obsession and start living a healthy life? >> if we understand how big the issues are, again, throughout most of human history calories were scarce. physical activity was unavoidable. in modern society physical activity is scare and calories are unavoidable. if we recognize the problem is bigger than the individual we don't have to feel we failed. nobody can say it got the better of me. it's really hard. i need a skill set. i need skill power. >> you also need friends who see it that way. >> in unity there is strength.

i'm not going to be ashamed so i can start talking about it, i can ask for help. with my patients, mika, i think you quoted something like this in the book, i think the greatest weight is not the pounds, it's the shame. once you set that down and start saying i need help, this is hard, i need to start talking about it, i need the people i love to help me get on track, all of the sudden it's possible. but there are forces at play. everything about modern living that makes it modern is conducive to getting fat. >> mika, you have complained about food deserts before. how bizarre that we live in a society where the richest now don't look like taft. the richest are the thinnest. the poorest sometimes are the most obese. you go into these communities, you talk about food deserts. so much of it is emotional eating as well. >> that's it. and so now you have some of the thinnest that are not thin the right way. and, you know, you said that

truth and friendship is a part of it. for me there were so many ridiculous things i was doing with food that i was so embarrassed about that i -- >> like what? like what? >> icing off the cake. think there's less calories but eat the entire icing off the entire cake. >> the bingeing on the nutella. you talk about the two big macs. it was nonstop. >> so i actually thought write this all down and call myself out a little bit. i can't tell you how many women that i've spoken to just nod. >> reverend al, you changed -- you changed your life. what happened with you? >> i mean, two things happened. one, you know, i led a protest in puerto rico years ago. got 90 days in jail for it. i was supposed to get 40, mika, but congressman scarborough called them and told them to

give me another 50. one morning my youngest daughter said -- ashley, said to me, dad, why are you so fat? all of the cartoons and caricatures never bothered me. that bothered me. that's when i started dieting. i think what mika's done is a real service. because public figures never usually want to admit anything. >> right. >> especially their vulnerability. by her doing this book i think it gives all of us room to say, you know what, we did have insecurities and we had to deal with it. now i'm down to 145 pounds. >> guys, thank you. >> we got to take a pause. we'll come back to this. let's get back into what's going on in cleveland. the judge right now is arraigning the three men accused of keeping three women hostage for ten years or more. let's dip into this and take a listen. >> i'd like to also point out for the record these are the only charges this man has, two

minor dmisdemeanors from 12 yeas ago. he has nothing else. thank you. >> ariel castro charged for kidnapping and rape. kidnapping and rape of a second. kidnapping and rape of a third. kidnapping of a fourth. >> with respect to mr. castro, he is waiving examination on each case. with respect to bond on mr. castro, mr. castro is 52 years old. he has lived in the area for 39 years. he is on unemployment compensation. and to the best of my knowledge, he has no convictions. or felonies or serious misdemeanors. >> good morning, your honor.

brian murphy. cuyahoga county prosecutor's office. the charges against mr. castro are based on premeditated and deliberate decision to snatch three young ladies from cleveland's streets to be used in whatever self-gratifying and self-satisfies way he saw fit. these victims served for close to a decade and eventually the little girl born to one of the women while in captivity. also while in captivity they were repeated beatings. they were bound, restrained and sexually assaulted. basically never free to leave this residence. suddenly, unexpectedly and quite frankly as quickly as they disappeared they re-emerged.

thankfully, miraculously, three days ago at the home of mr. castro. that's a home that served as mr. castro's residence, but his prison to these three women and eventually that child. today the situation has turned, your honor. mr. castro stands before you a captive or in captivity, a prisoner. the women are free. they're resuming their lives that were interrupted. also with the promise and the hope that justice will be served. to ensure that justice is served, $5 million -- >> thank you. >> also that he have to contact with the victim or their families whether he's out on bail or not. bond will be set at $2 million on each case.

$2 million cash assurety on each case. thank you very much. >> you're welcome, your honor. >> that is, of course -- that, by the way, is a public defender that is representing ariel castro, a name that obviously not only in cleveland but across america, obviously, is going to be a name that -- that represents evil. there's no doubt about it. there's no private attorney that would want to take this case. we saw the judge hearing the prosecutor's request for a bond set. and ariel castro, $2 million bond set on four cases. that's obviously $8 million bond. >> more charges coming. >> more charges will be coming. obviously the brothers are being held right now.

no charges against them yet. they are still being held. i'm sure that right now they have unrelated -- they have unrelated charges that are against them. but right now they're just holing them. they're going to figure out a way to hold them until they can get charges and who knows. chances are good they're probably talking to the other brothers right now, saying if you -- if you work with us, we'll make the charges less. >> what they're accused of doing, literally, will make you physically ill. >> animals. they are absolute beasts. >> it's a tough segue, really. you know, this is the kind of news people get. back to what we were talking about before, one of the places people turn for daily comfort is comfort food. it's part of the obsession. it really is. >> it is. you know, reverend al, let's talk about the community. the cleveland community here. it's hard to imagine this happening in a middle to upper middle class neighborhood where calls are made allegedly to the police, told to come out, they

knock on the door and leave because nobody answers the door. how did this happen since 2002? >> i know it's easy to say. >> it's incredible. i think you're right. it would not happen in an upscale neighborhood because they would have pursued it. at the same time, i don't see how in ten years people in the community didn't sense something. i think that there's enough around this situation to where we can talk about how we've got to deal more with how we are neighbors, how we have to deal more with police accountability and follow-up. police are saying they didn't get the calls, but clearly there are questions on whether -- >> you're talking also, though, about neighbors being more responsible. stepping up. >> i must say this. i don't care what they dig up on charles ramsey and how inarticulate he may seem to some. he should be given credit. he did what a lot of people -- >> i don't think anybody's questioning that. >> he helped this young lady.

she's a hero to me. and i really think charles ramsey should be the type of person all of us should be. and that is see what the going on if we hear some pleas for help. >> reverend, i think your point's very easy to go after the police. but it starts with the neighborhood. and you're going to see forward now people going, oh, yeah. i did hear a scream that night but i thought it was a fight. this is just one of those -- we're all gris ld and hardened you don't know hoe to respond to it. >> mika, police investigators, when they were hearing the girls talk, the young women talk about what they had been through, what they'd endured for a decade -- >> some of them had to leave the room. >> they had to leave because the information was so absolutely devastating. >> five pregnancies, one of the young women endured. never carrying any of them to term because she was beaten so terribly. again, you know, i -- i don't -- how do i say this carefully? i don't sort of follow the flash of cable news minute by minute

coverage. i just don't in my life. on this story i played the 911 tape several times. because i completely was taken in by amanda berry trying to convince the 911 operator who she was. >> right. >> after ten years. i'm the one who's been missing. and you could hear the 911 operator just not registering the truth. which charles ramsey, by the way, did immediately. to someone who needs help, i believe you, whatever it is you're saying. he said she was going berserk. i believe you. he responded. so i agree with you. i think we just kind of write people off when they come off a certain way to us. >> that goes to joe's point. almost the dismissive attitude of the dispatcher. how many people called around this country in trouble and were dismissed? i think it stands for all of us to really look at this. >> they get a lot of crazy calls, too, that have nothing to do -- >> it's a crazy business. >> i also want to ask the question. i'm, you noknow, a liberal, i'm not. how do you not want to have the

death penalty for these guys? how do these guys deserve to live? i don't care where you come out as an idealog. how do these beasts deserve to breathe anymore? without politicizing. just kill them. >> there are going to be a lot of people obviously asking that question. we're going to be right back with continuous coverage. stay with us. more "morning joe" straight ahead. [ female announcer ] this is your moment.

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continue our conversation on "obsessed" in a minute. right now we have dr. david katz, also reverend al sharpton. so, david, going back to this book, why is it that our society is the more we get, the wealthier we get, the fatter we get. obesity is an epidemic. we should know better. >> we should. only after we have time to figure it out. again, throughout most of human history getting enough to eat

was the challenge. so we developed a culture around that. we celebrate with food. we love one another with food. one of the points i've made is we have to update the love. grandparents who give treats to grandchildren, but that's the reason they're more likely to need an endo krinologist or bariatric surgery. it's like turning the "titanic" around. all of our culture was oriented towards more is better. all of a sudden less is better. that's a hard turnabout. we have to make it culturally. the other thing we need to do, you mentioned wealth. wealth is by no means the perfect defense against obesity. the fortune 500 ceos, their bmi is rising steadily, just less than a poor folks. you guys talk about economic matters on tv. every day everybody cares. what if we raised young people who aspire to health and vitality. think of how important it is.

invest in it. literally. >> so much of this also is about truth, mika. you say you also have to be really honest about it. talk about obesity like you did with your friend. >> that's the story in the book where i confront a friend. she confronts me. we both have very opposite problems. reverend al, when you were heavy, did anyone talk to you about it? >> all the time. but i think -- i was in a culture. the church culture i was in, where big was all right. you preach. you go out to church. >> i should have been a preacher. by the way, though, this is very important, though. how do parishioners, whether it's the southern baptist church in the south or whether it's a church that you -- how do they show their love? how do they always show their love? they invite you over. big dinner. >> big feed. feed everybody. i think that culture, it was almost like you expected to be big which was the opposite of -- >> i want -- >> a lot of persons told me i

was overweight. i felt they were out of tune with what was my culture. until i had to really sit down and have a conversation with myself. >> mika, i want to pick up on a personal story that relates to the book. i was in my early 30s about 50 pounds overweight. i was going through a bad divorce. a breakup with my business partner. and i used food as a place to -- if i brought in a picture of what i looked like, i don't even look like the same person. i think what you have to turn around, in answer to your question how did you get like this, you have to stop looking at food as the answer and say no, no, no. it's the opposite. i want to be happy. >> it's that kind of a story mika tells in here about all of her food problems for 20, 30 years. there was such an emotional component to it. >> definitely. you're filling some void. >> all right, listen. thank you guys so much for being with us. greatly appreciate it. we're going to be with politics & prose in washington, d.c. tonight we'll be doing a politico event at 7:00.

tomorrow, r.j. julia book sellers in madison, connecticut, for events at 5:00 and 7:00. they've added a second event. already in the second printing of this book. it's just exploding. the conversation also continues online this afternoon on mojoe.com. dr. katz is going to discuss work and reversing trends in obesity and chronic disease. afternoonmojoe.msnbc.com. coming up, john podhoretz is going to be coming on. "new york times" columnist. he's going to be talking about the revelations yesterday on capitol hill on ben mbengbengha. cas

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so fast forward, mr. hicks, to the sunday talk shows and ambassador susan rice. she blamed this attack on the video. in fact, she did it five different times. what was your reaction to that? >> i was stunned. my jaw dropped. and i was embarrassed. >> 49 past the hour. joining us now from washington, "new york post" columnist and co-founder of the weekly standard, john podhoretz.

>> it's great to have you on here. since september 11th there's been a lot of political posturing, conspiracy theories flying around from some on the right without having the facts or details. forget the conspiracy theories. forget the political posturing. the state department's words at least to me seem to speak for themselves. there's some pretty damning testimony out there now under oath. >> startlingly damning, i would say. i've never quite seen testimony like the testimony given by greg hicks yesterday. it was an account, a moment by moment account of the horrors that overtook the libyan mission and consulate in benghazi and the embassy in tripoli and the level and accretion of detail and his ability to lay out what

happened and in the course of the entire day and night and morning no one was under the impression that this was anything but a terrorist -- preplanned terrorist assault. and nobody at any point mentioned spontaneous demonstrations as a result of the innocence of muslims' youtube videos. five days later that was the operative theory of the administration. >> john, what was the most jarring moment for you as far as what was the -- the most jarring sound bite out of that hearing? >> or revelation. >> or the revelation that you think was even the most surprising to you? somebody that's followed this since september 11th, but didn't even see this coming? >> the most surprising -- there were two things. both of them having to do with the terrorist group san sar al sharia in libya. the al qaeda affiliate. one was greg hicks saying that when they heard that -- when

they heard that ambassador stevens had been taken to a hospital, they panicked. because they knew that the hospital to which he had been taken was an ansar al sharia stronghold and that they wanted to get him out of there. the second was the next day learning that state department official beth jones sent an e-mail about her conversation with the libyan ambassador in washington in which she said, we agree this was a terrorist attack by ansar al sharia. so not only did they believe that it was a terrorist attack, but they actually knew which group it was. they were worried that ansar sharia had taken custody of the -- you know, of the wounded body of ambassador stevens. and greg hicks, who was then the official in tripoli, worried that they were getting these phone calls telling them that the americans were in the hospital in mbenbenghazi becaus

they were trying to draw more americans into their ambet and take them hostage. what is striking about this is not that there was a monstrously confusing horror show on september 11th. nor that, you know, political decisions and tactical decisions were being made about how much fire power to bring to bear to save -- to save the four americans who eventually did die, but that there was a decision made afterwards to scrub the facts. why is very confusing. because if you look at this and you instantly say, well, they did this for political reasons, the calculation after a terrorist attack is not that the public runs away from the president if he stands up and says we've been attacked. i'm the guy who got bin laden. i'll get these guys, too. that would have been -- that

would have, i think, redounded for the president's political advantage. maybe the white house didn't believe that. maybe the state department didn't believe that. i don't really know. it seems like an incredible -- >> donny, you're agreeing with this. if they'd come out and just said it was a terrorist attack. >> could have turned it into i got osama bin laden. i'm going to get these guys, o too. the american people will forgive moments of incompetency. in john's column i disagree with everything he says. i couldn't agree with him more here. you stand up and say we got the biggest terrorist in the world. this is an atrocity. this is item one. i agree with his analysis. >> reverend al, it's very confusing. >> it's very confusing. it's very concerning. but, again, like mika said earlier, let's see -- i've us

the agreed with john all my life. he's disagreed with me. but i have to say, john is right. we've got to see what's here. but i'm not convinced yet that they're there yet. >> john, very disturbing facts on the ground. very disturbing facts yesterday. most disturbing thing this morning, both al sharpton and donny deutsche agree with you. >> john podhoretz. >> a lot of conversion has happened. the singularity has taken place. here comes judgment day, everybody. >> oh, no! up next, what if anything did we learn today. >> thank you, john. we greatly appreciate it, as always. we're not in london, are we? no. why? apparently my debit card is. what? i know. don't worry, we have cancelled your old card. great. thank you. in addition to us monitoring your accounts for unusual activity, you could also set up free account alerts. okay. [ female announcer ] at wells fargo we're working around the clock to help protect your money and financial information. here's your temporary card. welcome back. how was london? [ female announcer ] when people talk,

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now where's the snooze button? i thought i was doing "morning joe." i actually was going to a liza minelli con ert with your costume change. >> more importantly "obsessed." i want to give a message to the barnes & nobles of the world. put this in the diet section. it's better than any diet book. this is the human version of it. biography section, listen to the doctor. put it in the diet section. >> rev rand al? >> i learned all the work mika's done around women and misogyny,

it's still okay in the 21st century to call women delicious. >> he's a good friend. i want him to stay very far away from my daughters. >> i tell the truth. >> if it's way too early, mika. it's morning joe. tonight we're going to be at politics & prose and politico. stick around. chuck todd is next. a lot going on in washington today. see you tomorrow. >> bye. well, we're going to begin in cleveland. ariel castro has been arraigned this morning in the case of the decade long disappearance of three women. we're going to go live to the courthouse for more on the charges as well as the emotional homecoming for all three women. back in washington, of course, another business dinner for the president. this time it's with house democratic leaders. the president gets set to talk about the economy today.