the new republican outreach to the undocumented designed to put legal permanent status out of their reach. thanks so much for watching. chris matthews and "hardball" is next. horror in cleveland. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. the horrors of cleveland are growing. one of those captive women was forced to deliver her child in a plastic swimming pool so it would be easy to clean up afterwards. when her baby got sick and stopped breathing, her captor said, if the baby dies, you die. and other times when she got pregnant, the man holding her captive starved her and beat her in the stomach to force a miscarriage. as a final grotesquery, and gave each of his three female captives o cake on her annual

abduction day, thereby forcing her to celebrate the fact of her kidnapping and decade-long confinement. we found out the alleged captor treated his wife much the same, tieing her up in the basement after they were married. moments ago we learned the charges the prosecuting attorney will seek. we'll get to those in just a moment. first, msnbc's craig melvin is in cleveland for us. craig, what are the developments late this afternoon? >> reporter: chris, one of the interesting developments from that tuesday conference you alluded to at 4:00, it stounds like the cuyahoga county prosecutor is considering the death penalty. he mentioned that. he also talked about needing some time to continue to talk to the three women who were held capti captive. he indicated that may take some time because obviously they need some time to readjust and get reaically mated with society. by got word a short time ago, word michelle knight is still in the hospital. she is still in good condition. however, her brother tells our affiliate here in cleveland that they are not allowing visitors

at this point. but, again, she's still listed in good condition. no word on when she might be released from the hospital. there was, of course, the bond hearing this morning. that's where the judge said that ariel castro, the 52-year-old alleged mastermind, if you will, set his bond at some $8 million. that means he's going to have to come up with $800,000. that's not going to happen. so it's likely he will remain in jail until the start of the trial, if there is a trial. he was transferred from the city jail today to the county jail. we were told that he is also being held in protective custody, if you will, inside that jail for his own safety. here at the site of the horror, you can take a look behind me. there was just some fbi evidence -- that evidence gathering team we've been seeing. they were on that porch a few moments ago. they were taking more bags of evidence out of the house. we've seen some of that throughout the course of the day as well. we were told that the

investigation is going to continue. they're going to continue to talk to folks in the neighborhood, continue to talk to family members. they have about 200 pieces of evidence to sift through. one of the more interesting pieces of evidence, earlier today, a source close to the investigation confirmed that they did find a suicide note inside the home that was written by castro. it was dated 2004. also in that note, we're told, a great deal of evidence that they would not elaborate on, but castro did allude to being abused, himself, as a child. so that's the very latest from here in cleveland. that 7:00 public meeting is expected to get under way in about two hours down the street. >> right. >> reporter: in the church. we're told that that meeting from one of the organizers who's a city council member, they're expecting that meeting to, in his words, get a little ugly. >> yeah. we're going to cover that. not because we expect it to be ugly, but because this is a real community issue that you've been

great reporting on. thank you, craig melvin, out there in the site in cleveland. joining me, former sex crimes prosecutor and criminal defense attorney and the great wendy murphy we've gotten to know over the years. who teaches the issue of sexual violence law at new england law in boston. let me start with wendy. you're here. this issue, every time you hear the word capital punishment in this country, it's so rarely administered. when you hear a prosecutor even discuss it. this apparently involves the killing, if you will, of an unborn child or fetus by this guy. >> or many. you know, the allegations are up to five at this point. probably based on what the victim has said thus far. yeah, i mean, it seems a little strange to some of us that you can even bring a murder charge for, perhaps, an early fetus. maybe in the first several weeks of pregnancy. there's got to be a sense, i think, by this prosecutor, that these were fetuses pretty far along and to have five of them. now -- >> that's a judgment call, or is it in the statute? >> no -- >> is there a term -- >> there's a specific law on the

books in ohio, any amount of pregnancy, either one day of pregnancy, or all the way up to nine months is potentially a murder charge. now, moving from murder to capital murder is a very different kettle of fish and could raise really interesting constitutional questions as yet unanswered. >> well, moments ago prosecuting attorney timothy mcginty described the charges he'll seek against ariel castro. let's listen to what the wiggle room here, if you will, is. >> based on the facts i fully intend to seek charges for each and every act of sexual violence, rape, each day of kidnapping, every felonious assault, all his attempted murders and each act of aggravated murder he committed by terminating pregnancies that the offender perpetuated against the hostages during this decade-long ordeal. >> well, he added on the punishment list. let's listen further to his commentary. more definition. >> my office of the county

prosecutor will also engage in a formal process in which we evaluate whether to seek charges eligible for the death penalty. capital punishment must be reserved for those crimes that are truly the worst examples of human conduct. >> wendy, you're a prosecutor. you know this. it's not the number of times you do something. it's the crime, itself. you say capital punishment. it's almost like he's saying if you add all this up together, it's so bad, we ought to come up with something really bad. >> it can be the amount. >> "x" many kidnapping, "x" many, what else -- has there been a case a statute was set up in a way, if you do enough bad stuff, it adds up to being a capital? >> no, no, that's what i meant. a prosecutor does take into account the extent of the crimes. you have to have the primary charge that's eligible. that means in this case, murder, murder of an unborn fetus.

>> what do you make of the attempted murder cause? i hadn't heard that. >> the attempted murder could be they're worried about proving causation. we know, for example, from the victims' reported description that she was beaten while pregnant and that caused a miscarriage. what if they cant prove that's why the miscarriage happened? i think that's why we're hearing description of it as an attempted murder at this point. >> let me go to rikki now. you're looking at what we're looking at right now. charges being put out there yesterday and again today. more definition coming today. i don't know what the role of a defense attorney, for example, would be. i wouldn't want to be that person. what is the decision here for the jury in why would this case not just go to court in a couple weeks and get it over with? we have everything in that house. it all happened in that house, apparently. there were only certain people in that house. those women in that house was because they were being kept there. >> i don't necessarily think this case is ever going to go to trial. i think what you got from a criminal defense attorney's point of view here is what is the best thing that can happen

to a person who's accused of the worst of the worst crime which would make him eligible for capital punishment? capital punishment, that is the death penalty signals to that defense lawyer, no less a female appointed as a public defender for this fellow, to say maybe now i have a bargaining chip. if they come forward with death counts, maybe i can get life in prison. if you're a good defense lawyer, you're immediately asking for a court-appointed psychiatrist to examine your client. number one, is he competent at this point in time? he certainly didn't look too competent this morning. he certainly has appeared competent throughout this ordeal for those poor people. secondly, is he suffering from some kind of mental disease or defect, even if you don't go to trial, would give you some way to talk with the prosecution to get less than the maximum, and in this case the maximum may be death? >> you have four kidnapping

charges we know of already. >> so far. >> so far. you're the expert. all these rape charges which could go into exponential number. >> thousands. >> even if he tried to game it, if he would say, okay, i'm going to go for capital punishment because i think this thing is still tested in the courts, killing an unborn child at some stage of pregnancy. he'll still have all these other charges. there's no game there for him. >> life plus life plus life. no matter what. i don't think he has much to bargain about. this is a prosecutor trying to make a statement that we all feel, how could this not be a death penalty case? this is almost more grotesque than murder yet we don't feel like we have a tough enough punishment on the books for this man. because he destroyed human lives. not just the women but the unborn babies. how can we not have this be a death penalty case? i tell you, i heard the prosecutor today sounding tough. i was very impressed. i didn't hear him say what i was hoping for which is this is also a civil rights violation. this is a hate crime perpetrated against these women because of their gender. that's also on the books. >> how would you make that case

beyond the obvious? >> you show that he targeted women because of his animus against them. >> how do you make that an extraordinarily important? in other words, you could argue all heterosexual rape, if you want to call it that, male, female, is related to anger, domination. how would you distinguish this from the general argument that all rape is of that nature? >> one could politically make an argument empb a single rape is a hate crime. i'm saying here you have three women kidnapped because they're female. raped because they're female. beaten because they're female. what case -- what better case is there than this? he should make it as a political statement. he should make the remarks clear that this is a civil rights violation against women under his jurisdiction. >> as you point out a moment ago, the charges against this suspect are so strong, you don't need to pile on. >> no, it's not a piling on. it's the message. it's the valuation. >> do you think he's sane enough, this person, to appreciate the distinction between his innate whatever it

is, evil, or desire to dominate, to hurt, to captive, to hold captive. do you think he has a political sensory nerve? oh, yeah, this is a political thing, too, i have to be careful here? >> i -- >> i don't want to be anti-woman in the conduct of this awful thing i'm doing here. >> it doesn't matter what he thinks. i don't care if he's aware of his hatred toward women. he still committed a crime that involved hatred toward women. >> and don't forget the weird birthday cakes. i want to ask real quickly, rikki klieman, i'm not a specialist in profiling people who are really criminally bad. this guy was having these annual birthday cakes, but the birthday was the day of their abduction. and he -- is there some kind of a mixed personality, person who thinks he's being nice to people or he's somehow sharing with these people when, in fact, they're just captives? >> i don't want to psychoanalyze him, chris, because he's beyond my capability of this analysis. but this is a person who is

sadistic. this is a person who realized back in 2004 what he was doing was a very bad thing and in his alleged suicide note was saying that he really wanted to be stopped. well, if he really wanted to be stopped, he should have let those women go, and he did not. >> well said. thank you, rikki klieman as well. thank you, wendy. you're great. coming up, republicans are working to find hillary clinton guilty for the death in benghazi of ambassador chris stevens. my question, what did we learn in yesterday's hearings about what clinton did or didn't do or failed to do? let's figure out if there's anything here. this week's arrest of an air force official in charge of a sexual assault program, how is that for irony? there's an epidemic we're seeing right now of sexual abuse in the military. can the military police its own rank? that's the big question in the white house today with that conference. we finally got a take on elizabeth colbert busch's loss

from the one person we most wanted to hear from, her brother, stephen colbert. let me finish tonight with why the great american novel "gatsby" is the great american novel. this is "hardball." the place for politics. yeah? then how'd i get this... [ voice of dennis ] ...safe driving bonus check? every six months without an accident, allstate sends a check. silence. are you in good hands? [ agent smith ] i've found software that intrigues me. it appears it's an agent of good. ♪ [ agent smith ] ge software connects patients to nurses to the right machines while dramatically reducing waiting time. [ telephone ringing ] now a waiting room is just a room. [ static warbles ]

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welcome back to "hardball." benghazi, the issue, dog hillary clinton if and when she runs for president in 2016? if yesterday's congressional

hearing into the attacks was any indication republicans aren't going to let go of the issue. they say the white house has tried to block the truth from coming out, that's the obama white house. former secretary of state helped them do it. that's what they say. the focus seems mostly shifted, by the way, to clinton now, not obama. they seem to be after her right now. these revelations yesterday had to do with what hillary knew and what she did or didn't do during and after the attacks. for example, we now know that clinton phoned the embassy in tripoli the night of the attacks and spoke with the dcm, deputy chief of mission at the time, gregory hicks. hicks also said clinton's chief of staff, sheryl mills, tried to intimidate him after he spoke with the u.s. congressman, a republican, about the attacks without a state department lawyer being present. my question today, what kind of a picture does this all add up to? where are we headed with this? lisa myers is the great senior investigative reporter for nbc news 37 jeremy peters is a political reporter for "the new york times." we have two good people here. let's try to figure out the f t

facts yesterday. ma did we learn yesterday that seems to be exposing the secretary of state, brings open further questioning? lisa? >> i think both points you raised about the call to greg hicks at 2:00 a.m. between the first and second attack. i think it's the sheryl mills involvement in all this. there is no one closer. let's say, there are few people closer to hillary clinton than shaerl mi sheryl mills. thirdly, we learned the reason ambassador stephvens was in benghazi. that's because secretary clinton planned to only to libya later that year and wanted to be able to announce there would be a permanent diplomatic outpost in benghazi. >> what the republican people, it was the republicans, it was a partisan organized event yesterday apparently talking to elijah cummings, the ranking democrat. he was informed he wasn't consulted, if you will. they have established that hillary clinton was involved in operations. that she was calling during the time after the first attack.

and before they knew what had happened to ambassador stevens. she was in a position of being the top officer involved in that matter. as secretary of state. can they then go forward and say, wait a minute, she had a choice the minute she got on that phone, start giving orders. i want every military person in that area to go to the rescue right now. i don't care how long it takes, how far they have to go. put every person out there. he's an important ambassador. we care about his life. maybe we could save him. can't they make that argument? >> i think the argument they're more interested in making is that she and obama have tried to cover up their knowledge of this as terrorism. i think that -- >> how does that get to the issue of -- it's like no harm, no foul. oh, political spin. okay. so somebody -- first time in history this ever happened that a political party tried to put the best face on something after a bad thing happened. it didn't cause chris stevens to be killed. it didn't really cause any damage except to mitt romney.

and how is that going to offend the public? >> i don't think it has offended the public. i think -- >> it's a charge. >> it's riled up a small part of the republican base. you can't go to a republican town hall meeting these days without people shouting benghazi, benghazi. >> they know what it means, these people yelling it. >> they know what it means. i think it's failed to catch fire in mainstream middle of the road voters. >> if it was a spin orchestrated by somebody at state, if somebody at state says let's not call it terrorism because that might be sting we're not supposed to say right now two weeks before the election because we killed al qaeda. if that happened, worst case scenario, what's the big damage there to anybody? >> i think what republicans would allege is that obama illegitimately won the election because he covered up -- >> because he spread the word throughout his bureaucracy, never say the word terrorism. >> exactly. this was weeks before the election. it looks bad. let's cover it up. and i think that what -- that's why you see all these analogies to watergate. because republicans genuinely do

think this was malfeasance covered up to help the president in the final days of the election. >> okay. that doesn't tell us much because that's expo decisi ppex. my question is, going back to this earlier thing. we've all watched this. secretary clinton is very smart. everything that's ever happened is in her head, she knows about it. all the meetings by the review board, all the congressional hearings she's been involved in. she's never once voiced the point, oh by the way, remember that 3:00 in the morning conversation i talked about in my campaign? it was a 2:00 in the morning conversation. i was on the phone in the middle of a crisis, and here's what i did or didn't do. we didn't know it until yesterday. >> first of all, in her congressional testimony, which is really her only sustained questioning on this subject, in her congressional testimony she basically tried to slam the door on further questions by saying, remember the dramatic statement, what difference does it make? >> yeah. >> this re-opens, i think, the questions. i don't think we know yet to what extent this does or might

damage hillary clinton. i think the administration's biggest v biggest vulnerability here, first of all, how do you send diplomats into this dangerous of an area, to facilities that are not -- do not even meet minimum security standards? >> yeah. >> how do you then reduce their level of security by taking away some of the military personnel that they have? and then how do you, when you know that these people are in trouble, not find some way to move heaven and earth to -- >> okay. i'm with you on that one. >> -- at least get forces going there. >> if somebody you cared about, i think hillary clinton does care about her ambassadors. >> oh, i do. >> you would put everything you have to save them. you'd say, how many people do we have there? what's the closest airplanes? where are the closest men? let's go, go, because it's happening right now and she thought he might still be alive. this other question of courageous ambassador, which we're told chris stevens was. you're assigned to a country like libya, which isn't quite stable, right?

>> right. >> it's a country that doesn't really have a government yet. what we have for security forces are basically militias. we have to set up ties personally almost. in every case we go somewhere with some local chiefton who's got a bunch of people with semiautomatic rifles and say, can you watch our guy? can you get us there safe? can you give us safe passage? it's always hairy, it's always tricky and dodgegy, right? that's what chris stevens was doing. that's part of being an ambassador in a troubled area. how do we take away the danger in situations like that? we can't have an army sitting there. we're not a colonial power. >> no, but what we didn't have was the contingency plan. there was nothing in place that, okay, these guys are in harm's way, it's incredibly dangerous situation, but it's important. >> isn't that for the ambassa r ambassador -- you're arguing the ambassador tried to get that set up and was rejected. >> i think he tried to get more security and he was objected. there was no contingency plan or forces in place who could respond in short notice. >> besides the fact the, republicans clearly see now an opportunity to catch hillary

clinton who may well run for president. according to fox news, today, former vice president dick cheney, who's somewhat partisan, met with house republicans and suggested they may need to subpoena clinton to get more answers on the benghazi attacks. in other words, force her to testify. marco rubio today said on fox also he tied the investigation to the former secretary of state. let's listen to -- he's another smart guy. may not agree with him, but here's rubio. >> the president was in the middle of his re-election. was of his talking points was terrorism had been defeated and he had defeated it. what i think is sad is how many people are around the administration, according to former secretary of state, secretary clinton, knew this to be the case and allowed this to move forward anyway. you would have hoped people would have stood up and said, this is wrong, the american people deserve the truth. that didn't happen. >> earlier this week senator rand paul had strong words. even stronger for former secretary clinton. let's listen. >> i think that her dereliction of duty, i don't question her motives, but her dereliction of duty in her lack of leadership

should preclude her from ever holding office. >> well now we have a real clam bake going here. we have a battle of the bands here. everybody on the right seems to be going after her. i haven't heard from ted cruz yet. they're all there. what do you make, as a political story, this seems to be their main chance. they're not going to beat obama on the budget, on guns, all this stuff. immigration's too murky. gitmo is too weird. more of a left-wing thing. they're going to beat them, obama and hillary, two birds with one stone on benghazi. >> republicans are trying to raise questions of hillary's character. which remember, this is what they did 20 years ago with the vast right-wing conspiracy, hillary clinton alleged her enemies were behind trying to destroy her and her husband. >> is this in the republicans, like, manual? go to the character issue? >> i guess so. where they have a trickier argument, though, is in actually proving what hillary clinton

knew about the terrorist attack. that's why you hear so much about the video. was it the video that spurred this attack, or was it islamic terrorists? >> you're still getting into the question of spin. the only thing that matters to the american people, was anyone derelict enough to let somebody die who was a good guy? that's an issue with most people. humans, that is. thank you, jeremy peters, from "the new york times." up next, the reaction we've been waiting for to elizabeth colbert busch's loss from her brother. got to pronounce it right. stephen colbert in this case. this is "hardball." the place for politics. 45 minutes it took me to get to the airport...

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ha! back to "hardball." now to the sideshow. first steve colbert was not pleased to find out that his sister, elizabeth colbert busch, lost to republican mark sanford in that south carolina congressional race on tuesday. here he is with a new take on political campaigns.

>> my sister lost. how could this happen? i was so sure lulu had won because cnn called it for sanford. this was the first political campaign where i knew and cared about the candidate before they got into politics. i saw firsthand how her opponent smears her with outrageous accusations i knew to be untrue. and that has made me wonder if other campaigns have done this as well. is it possible that john mccain actually doesn't have an illegitimate black child? and does that mean meghan mccain is white? i don't know what to believe anymore. next, to new jersey governor chris christie. in the aftermath of superstorm sandy, governor christie became known for, among other things, always wearing the same fleece. there it is. his office had a little fun with a star-studded opening video for new jersey's legislative correspondents dedinner earlier

this week. take an eye out for the cameo of the co-host of msnbc's "morning joe." >> the fleece, sir, it's missing. >> so what? so what? what's the big deal? i'm back in the "time" 100 most influential people in the world. bruce is my new best friend. i'm friends with bon jovi. now i'm back on yt morning joe." that's going to be a love fest. everything is right back on track. >> oh, hey. >> we just had him last week. >> i thought he was on last week. i guess he's back. >> hey, john, john, it's chris. john, john, it's chris. >> hey. there's that guy again. he ain't nothing without his fleece. >> hey, bruce. i know. i know i shouldn't be bothering you again, but did you happen to see my fleece? >> hi, this is governor christie's fleece. this is the fleece that everyone's been looking for. did you steal the governor's

fleece? >> i can't answer a lie. i stole it. >> i admire governor christie, too. new jersey state police. next, what famous figures do the american people think are the most trust worthy? "readers digest" is out with this year's list of the 100 most trusted people in america. leading the pack for most trustworthy, actor tom hanks followed by sandra bullock and denzel washington. the top politician on the list was jimmy carter at number 24. the comeback is beginning. president obama made the list but way back at 65. judge judy, yes, of the kf show judge judy edged out all nine of the current supreme court justices. in response, jimmy kimmel put on a little experiment. >> we went out on the street today and asked people what they thought about president obama's decision to appoint judge judy shineland, that's judge judy's last name, to the supreme court. he didn't do that, obviously.

when the people hear words like president obama and supreme court, they will have an opinion, whether they have an opinion or not. what do you think about president obama's decision to appoint judge judy shineland to the u.s. supreme court? >> well, it's controversial. you know, he's granted that power as the president of the united states. we have to do the best we can with what we have. >> i think it's a publicity stunt. >> i'm not sure she's fit for that type of job. >> do you think she's going to make an adequate replacement? >> i don't know if adequate is the word, but i can understand why he would make that decision and go that way. >> just to show you, people can always insert their point of view, especially when politics is involved. up next, the serious problem of sexual assault in the military. it's becoming an epidemic. wait until you hear these numbers. it's all coming ahead. you're watching "hardball." the place for politics. this day calls you.

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i'm seema mody with your cnbc market wrap. the markets end with modest losses. dow falls 22 points. s&p 500 losing 6. the nasdaq ending down by 4. weekly jobless krams dropped more than expected. hitting their lowest level since 2008. meanwhile, electric car maker tesla saw shares surge more than 20% after posting its first quarterly profit. and drug maker merck is the target of a $100 million sex discrimination lawsuit. shares finished little change. that's it from cnbc. first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." sexual assault is an outrage. it is a crime. that's true for society at

large, and if it's happening inside our military, then whoever carries it out is bet y betraying the uniform that they're wearing. for those who are in uniform who have experienced sexual assault, i want them to hear directly from their commander in chief that i've got their backs. i will support them. i have no tolerance for this. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was, of course, the president on tuesday. the other day. reacting to that disturbing report out of the pentagon that really is disturbing on sexual assaults. i'm talking assaults in the military. report found the number of unreported cases is skyrocketing. 26,000 went unnoticed supposedly in 2012 last year. reported cases on the rise, too. totaling more than 3,000. the reason for the discrepancy, by the way, fear of retaliation of the group that reports the assault. 62% say they experience some form of punishment for speaking up, either on a professional, administrative, or social level. in reaction, the white house convened its own special meeting outside the military today of about a dozen lawmakers, as

washington begins the unenviable but necessary task of figuring out how to fix this alarming trend out there. among people fighting for the country. joining us right now is senator kay hagan, democrat from north carolina, who's part of the white house meeting. thank you for joining us. senator, it's great to have you on. i respect you so much. i love north carolina. went to grad school down there. let me ask you, these are real -- i think something people need to understand, we're not in the military, these are real assaults. tea these are attempted rapes. these aren't saying, you're wearing a nice dress today. these are actual what anybody would call assault, felonies that people are getting away with. >> you know, it is a real travesty, and the fact is these numbers have been increasing. and these men and women are putting their lives on the line right now, and for their personal safety to be at risk on a base is absolutely an hence bl. we cannot let this go forward. we have got to change this. as the president said, this is a

crime and we need to take action. we cannot tolerate this. >> i'm just wondering, is it hazing? have you been able to sort of categorize or catalog, is there, i mean -- a felony is a felony, an assault is an assault. i'm trying to figure out the culture here. some guy does something to a woman, it's clearly not just bad taste, not bad behavior, it's criminal. the woman knows she has to make a decision whether she's going to risk, what, some kind of payback, if you will, or just live with it? >> you know, chris, it's the stigma that is attached to reporting a sexual assault. one, we've got do be sure we can do away with that stigma. that a woman feels that she can go to an independent entity, that she can have a sexual victims assault unit that is confidential, that she can go and discuss that and so that she doesn't have to go to her commanding office to report this. the person that she actually reports to. she's got to be concerned about her career, about what happens next. is it going to be prosecuted?

we need to have an independent review board that looks at all of these cases. we need to have a special sexual assault unit that actually mimics what is going on in the civilian criminal cases where there are sexual assault units to really help the victims of this crime. and one thing that really got to focus on is that somebody who's been convicted of sexual assault gets kicked out of the military. i don't think at all that it's a good idea that the commanding officer can actually throw out a jury verdict of somebody who has been convicted at a jury trial of serious sexual assault. >> you know, there used to be a story around capitol hill, on the senate side. there were a couple u.s. senators. a woman would better off not get on the elevator with because they would grab you. i always thought this was interesting about men's behavior. they'd never do it with some other guy around. it seems like in this situation, the military, these men, i'll just guess a lot of them are

men, are engaging in this behavior knowing other guys are going to find out about it but they just don't care. >> you know, i speak to a lot of women that are in the military. north carolina is home to so many bases and i've been overseas. i've been to afghanistan. i went to iraq. and i actually had women tell me that they had to limit their fluid intake in the late afternoon/early evening because they were afraid to go to the latrine at night fearing their personal safety. here these women are, once again, putting their lives on the line for us at war, and they're worried about their personal safety at night. >> thank you so much for this. we got to know about this, we have to stop it. thank you, senator kay hagan, of north carolina. let's bring in goldie taylor, msnbc contributor and former marine. you've been there. what do you know about this? do you remember this as something that was part of reality of serving? you're laughing, but i'm sure it's not funny. your thoughts. >> the idea that this is brand new, this is decades upon decades old. i enlisted in the marine corps

26 years ago. i knew of a young woman on my base in indiana who was raped by an army ranger off base, forced to hitchhike back to base, abandoned on a road. it was reported to the commanding officer. not only was this man never charged, but she was sent to a psychological unit. she was given lie detector tests. and finally her career was ended. she was absolutely humiliated. and so the very idea that this is something that ought to be adjudicated within the command structure is ludicrous. it is something that ought to be investigated, prosecuted, and it ought to be punished. you know, the very idea -- >> how do you intervene? you're saying ought to, but how do you intervene? i accept your word. every bit of evidence you've given us and personal history. but how do you get -- so mayor, general, you can't trust generageneral s. you can't trust majomajors. you can't trust sergeants. you're saying, who else can come in and intervene and save some kind of justice and

self-protection here? >> i believe things like this ought to be taken over by civilian authorities. i don't trust the military can police itself on a subject like this. i've seen it where, you know, commanding officers, whether they be majors, sergeant majors, whether they be generals, step in and remove -- you know, the military is just like any other corporation. we move based on resources and prioritization. men and women serving in the military are resources. the priority has been put on saving the men, and the women have been disposable. now, to be honest, this is not a crime simply against women. men are victims, too. my younger nephew, who has sadly passed away in service, he was also a victim of gang rape while serving in the navy. so this is something we have to confront. the people who are out there putting forth legislation after piece of legislation, we've seen all of that. it's like, you know, those imagination dog leashes. the only person who believes you have a dog is the person who's

got his hands on the leash. >> gosh. tough. well, thank you. no one is going to forget what you said. goldie taylor, thanks for your service, by the way. up next, the much anticipated film version of the classic american novel, my favorite "the great gatsby" is coming out. why we love it and when it comes to the new movie, we're going to take it personally. everybody is going to watch this. is this like the book or isn't it? why isn't it like the book? this is "hardball." the place for politics. >> it's in our blood. [ children laughing ] energy efficient appliances. you can get a tax write off for those. a programmable thermostat, very smart, saves money. ♪ cash money sorry. i see you have allstate claim free rewards, for every year you don't have a claim, you'll get money off your home insurance policy. put it towards... [ glass shatters ] [ girl ] dad! dad! [ girl screams ]

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who is this gas gatsby? >> a german spy? >> no, no, no. he's an assassin. >> i heard he killed a man once. >> he's free of charge. he's certainly richer than god. >> you don't really believe he killed a man, do you? >> we're back. it's "the great gatsby." as adults, we return to it every now and again and read it again. it's about love and america and we see it portrayed on fill. the newest adaptation is a flashy 3-d version starring leonardo dicaprio. i have to tell you, this is really well done. we have two scenes three times.

watch how they do it. >> a cardboard box. >> your life is adorable. >> i know somebody in west air. >> i don't know anybody a single side of that bay. >> you you must know gatsby. >> gatsby? what gatsby? >> we live across the sound. i know somebody there. >> i don't know a single person. >> you must know gatsby. >> oh, he's my neighbor. >> gatsby? what gatsby. >> gatsby. >> what gatsby is that? >> the book is number one on the bestseller's list, number one. it's about 90 years old. the movie debuts tomorrow. ann horn net is my guest. . i just want to talk about one thing here. people who have read this book in high school, forced to read

it every five or ten years since. i'm going to talk about this at the end of the show. it's about love lost. the poor kid can't marry the rich girl. we get that. it's about self-creation, about america. why does it keep coming back as a movie, first question? >> oh, i think because those things will never go away. i mean, we're constantly reinventing ourselves individually and as a nation this is the great sort of american project that we're embarked on and, as you said, this novel is the great suma of so many principles that drive up, the psychological drives, the financial drives. this one arrives right after our latest almost depression. so it has all sorts of contemporary residences, just even in terms of the economic context. so i just think it does contain just so many of the elements of the american character. >> let me ask you about this leo

dicaprio. >> i'm sorry? >> leonardo dicaprio, is he gatsby? >> you know, he does a pretty good job. one thing he does in this film is restore gatsby as a youthful character. we tend to remember gatsby and his peers as older because they've had so many experiences. they've been through a war. he was a bootlegger. but they are relatively young people. one thing i appreciated by dicaprio's performance is it restores some youthfulness to him and could denote an actor unsure of the accent but also is appropriate to a man who comes from an uncertain background and is sort of faking it. so i actually thought his performance was the strongest of

the film. it also put me in the mind of charles foster cane who was a gatsby-esque figure. >> here is leonardo dicaprio. let's take a look at this. >> with all of this made entirely of your own imagination? >> no. see, you were there all along. and of course if anything is not to your liking, i'll change it. >> it's perfect. perfect, irresistible imagination. >> so ann horn today, my pal, do rich girls marry pals? >> oh, sure. >> come on, do they really do

it? that's america because we're not sure whether class marries or doesn't matter. your thoughts on the whole question that gatsby asks about an american that you recreate yourself. >> that's a huge question. well, i think that -- i do think it's possible. i mean, i think we wake up every day wanting to do that. >> thank you. that's why the movie works. i'm telling you, i'm hoping for this one. i love gatsby. ann hornaday, thank you, from "the washington post." she gave it 2 stars, to be honest. we'll be right back. people join angie's list for all kinds of reasons.

i go to angie's list to gauge whether or not the projects will be done in a timely fashion and within budget. angie's list members can tell you which provider is the best in town. you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare. now that we're expecting, i like the fact that i can go onto angie's list and look for pediatricians. the service providers that i've found on angie's list actually have blown me away. join today and find out why over 1 million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust. help the gulf recover, andnt to learn from what happenedg goals: so we could be a better, safer energy company. i've been with bp for 24 years. i was part of the team that helped deliver on our commitments to the gulf - and i can tell you, safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge safety equipment and technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all our drilling activity, twenty-four-seven.

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let me finish tonight with this. there's a reason "the great gatsby" written nine decades ago is at the top of the bestseller's list. it's about two great themes, one is love, of course, in this case, the love of a poor boy for a rich girl. the other thing is self-creation, we're a self-created country. jay gatsby put together his name, bootlegs, hope, and decided to trade it in for the girl he couldn't afford when he was another poor soldier heading off to war. gchl atsby was a dreamer, a great one, a man of money but old money, his dream girl would actually value and so he beat on against the current, to the best american story we have and so we

ourselves beat on hoping that the latest adaptation of "the great gatsby" will carry the experience we got all the time reading it. the true american dreamer, the kind of person who built this country and who matched his dreams with a really good try. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. thanks, chris, and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, the mind of a monster. today the lone suspect, ariel castro was arraigned in a cleveland court on charges of kidnapping and rape. castro looked down at the ground for the entire proceeding, biting his collar and signing documents with his handcuffed hands. he did not speak and he's being held on $8 million bond. and we're learning chilling new details about him.