and thank god there was a charles ramsey or somebody there. we must all never give up. we must all wait until that moment that breakthrough comes through. don't ever give up and when you do, begin to feel like you're giving up, remember amanda, remember those two others, remember that young girl. had they given up, the world would not be saying tonight those three girls represent something all of us need to learn. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. horror in cleveland. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. the horrors of cleveland are growing. one of those captive women was

forced to deliver her child in a plastic swimming pool so it would be easy to clean up afterwards. when her baby got sick and stopped breathing, her captor said, if the baby dies, you die. and other times when she got pregnant, the man holding her captive starved her and beat her in the stomach to force a miscarriage. as a final grotesquery, and gave each of his three female captives a cake on her annual abduction day, thereby forcing her to celebrate the fact of her kidnapping and decade-long confinement. we found out the alleged captor treated his wife much the same, tieing her up in the basement after they were married. moments ago we learned the charges the prosecuting attorney will seek. we'll get to those in just a moment. first, msnbc's craig melvin is in cleveland for us.

>> reporter: chris, they are expecting between 100 and 200. to give you an idea, we're about half a block away, not even a length of a football field distance away from the castro home where those horrors happened. i have been struck and i think we have a camera inside the church as well. i have been struck by the makeup of the crowd going in. you've got young, old, black, white, a large portion of the folks going in for this meeting, a puerto rican neighborhood, west side of cleveland. they are tonight going to have an opportunity to ask again according to one of the council member who is organized this, ask as many questions a they want. they'll have an opportunity to talk to representatives from the fbi, from local police, and part of the mission here is to let the folks who live in the neighborhood get the facts straight from some of the investigators as well.

and they also want to do what he said, they want to do some bridge building between the folks who live in this neighborhood and the police who patrol the neighborhood. we expect there to be a fair amount of back and forth. the relationship between the cops in this neighborhood, west side of cleveland, hadn't been the best of relationships and the police will tell you that and so will the folks who live here. it's no big secret. there will be a lot of talk about that and a lot of talk about what the neighbors can do and what the police can do to make sure something like this, something has heinous as this never happens again here in clear la cleveland, ohio. >> craig, you and i know the commonsense question, do you want more police squads moving around, officers put on foot, more community relations outreach where people talk to you about social issues and playground issues and school fights and really getting in

your face? what's your hunch? this is a tough -- they want more cops or less cops in their face? it looks like they want more for a while at least. >> it's not so much quantity. some of the folks have said -- this neighborhood on the west side of cleveland, this could be said about a lot of neighborhoods in this country, they want trust. you know, they want to be able to trust the folks who are protecting and serving. one of the things that we've been talking about a great deal over the past few days is this disconnect between the folks who say they picked up the phone and called 911, they saw something and said something. police insisted that's not the case. we didn't get the calls, the calls weren't made. it depends on who you talk to, the response that you get. that's going to be brought up a lot here. a number of folks have said, we did call and we have called and the police either don't come or when they do come, they knock and go away. so there's going to be a great deal of time devoted to that part of the conversation.

we should note that one of the things that we've seen over the past 48 hours here in cleveland, ohio, the community is starting to come together around these three girls. there's a balloon. they are going to release dozens of balloons after this meeting. you drive past a bunch of the restaurants, mom and mop shops, they've got signs welcoming the three girls back home. they have set up a fund to try and help these girls heal and go to school and things like that. so that -- that is the healing that has started as well which is really good to see. >> you know, i wonder if it's hot in there. there's somebody already fanning themselves. i assume the temperature is 65. it's not hot yet? >> well, it was about 65. they got all of the doors opened. we can tell you that. they are expect being between, again, 1 and 200. and we're also curious how long this thing is going to go on. you can see at the front there,

they have a number of panelists who are all going to be given an opportunity to speak and they will take questions and there will be this back and forth. what we don't expect tonight is for there to be a great deal of talk about the details of what happened at the castro home. we don't expect that to be the dominant part of this conversation. we expect this conversation and this meeting to be more about moving forward, going forward, how do we heal as a community, what steps can we take in our neighborhoods, community policing, things like that. that's what we expect this conversation to be about. >> what was your reaction today to this talk about capital punishment? capital punishment in the north especially has become such a rarity. wait a minute. let's go. let's go right now, craig, to the occasion now. they are setting up the community meeting right now. >> i'm your host, reverend, the

pastor of the church and i extend a welcome to everyone who has donated your precious lifetime which never comes back to you but you share it with us. and that's appreciated. and so i welcome all of you. neighbors friends, honorary guests. >> we are just hearing the benediction. it looks like there's going to be a sober meeting. it might get a little hot there. we're talking about life and death. we're talking about human captivity in the neighborhood. the whole question of domestic dispute comes in to play here. the question of how much close coverage do you want of the police in your own family lives, your domestic situations, that's what this case is involving, the fact that the police never got involved in that household where there were four human captives and in order to prevent that kind of thing developing in any society, in any neighborhood, you've got to do some community relations, outreach where you come out and meet people, how is

it going in here, get a sense of the room and if there is anything fishy going on and asking around. these are tough questions. we're going to have kendall coffee, an msnbc legal analyst, kendall, thank you for joining us. this case has been raised to the level of a capital case. i'm not sure whether that's a negotiating position or what. what do you make of that today? >> i think it's more than negotiating position. i think that this crime is sufficiently horrible. that it could be absolutely dramatic kind of facts that pro tell the murder of an unborn child into not only a capital case but one that arguably could pass constitutional muster. that's going to be a giant question. there hasn't been a decision so far that said that where the murder is not just of an adult human being or even a child that is born but simply, maybe not so

simply, an unborn child that that by itself can justify the death penalty. this case is sufficiently horrifying where the prosecutors pursue this, a jury could come back with a not only a murder conviction but with a death pen namt and then on it is way to the courts to have these very important questions tested. >> what possible defense could be offered in this case? >> well, you know, people talk about, of course there's going to be an insanity plea. that doesn't add up to the confusion or other profiles that come close to insanity. there's no defense here that's apparent and this prosecution is not going to be looking for a plea deal. they are not going to be looking for negotiation. there's going to be an outrage if anything less than maximum jis cities is pursued here. >> if you're applying defense

here, if you're assigned it or a public defender, wouldn't you go to the constitutionality of a murder case against an unborn child or fetus, especially in early term? >> that's a big part of the case, is trying to argue that constitutionally this cannot be a basis for a death penalty. there's a number of states that have laws dealing with fetal homicide and they have been upheld. in fact, the federal government -- >> are they capital cases? >> but we don't have a case yet where a capital sentence, a death penalty sentence, strictly for the killing of an unborn child as opposed to killing the mother and unborn child, where that's been validated constitutionally. it's a big question and dramatic appalling facts that create new law and could make this case a very, very interesting decision some day as it works its way

through the courts. it's going to work its way through the court. this is going to be a trial, perhaps very strong sentencing phase and then years before we get the answer to whether this can constitutionally be a basis to impose capital punishment. >> you know, i've learned enough about police work, watching about it, hearing about it, that the most tricky of situations is going into a home and there's all kinds of emotions. here you have a bizarre case of one m one man, a middle-aged guy with human captives, trying to figure out what is going on here, what is weird, do we bring community relations to where it's less likely to happen even in this kind of weird case? >> well, it's about trust but it's also about knowing that if you talk to the police, if you report something suspicious, that they are going to respond fairly. they are not going to be skeptical. they are not going to be suspicious. they are not just going to go

through the motions. if someone saw what appeared to be a naked woman crawling about, i'm reluctant to rush for judgment but how do you knock on the door, walk around, and then you're done with it? the community has to know not only can they trust the police but trust them to respect their grievances and not dismiss them lightly or quickly or casually. >> do you think there's a lot of issues here with people, a lot of puerto ricans, so they don't have any immigration problems. they are americans from birth. but i wonder if a lot of feds, if you will, i.c.e. or anyone else coming around, this community seems to be, based upon the limited information we have, really in need of this kind of meeting tonight. there is a fear factor. >> very much so. of course, at many times it's lower-income communities where there's a greater level of distrust for police authorities. as you said, this appears to be a puerto rican community. think about for a minute communities that have a lot of

immigrants. perhaps even -- how hard is it for them to go to the police and engage the police in order to draw important information to the attention of law enforcement? because in their situation, there is a lot more concern about peril if the individual witnesses a circumstances to become fully known. >> kendall, let's take a listen to this. let's get a taste of the hearing and then we'll come in and out of it as it occurs. >> on behalf of our local congregation as well as the fraternity, we are not here tonight not only to offer our prayers but we're also here to extend a helping hand. we are here to help you in any way that we can. >> we're going to take a break right now so we can capture the heart of this meeting. it's a hot one. it's going to be an important one in cleveland in that neighborhood. we'll be right back. me the first in flight. [ goodall ] i think the most amazing thing

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we're hoping to see a lot of q & a here in the next few minutes. at some point it's going to start where state and local officials are briefing people there on the horrific kidnapping. we'll bring you the live programming once it gets under way. a few minutes ago, however, in a cleveland park not far away, neighbors held a vigil where they released balloons to honor michelle knight. she was one of three women who spent ten years kidnapped. interesting ritual there. kendall coffey, thank you for joining us. i was thinking of kidnapping. generally we think about a kid, a kid being held for money. i just don't know, this idea of kidnapping for sex or for some sort of just general mischief and satism. >> we've seen high-profile cases

of young girls held sometimes for longer. you remember the elizabeth smart case. >> sure. >> but the features of this are so unsettling. there were three different victims, all grabbed it at relatively young ages. and as this community town hall meeting is going to describe, how does something like this last for so long without any police awareness? how much longer could it have continued? but for the happenstance that a good neighbor saw something and acted. so something like this, hard to think of anything quite this horrifying and startling. >> well, you think about a guy going to the supermarket to buy enough food for five, even though he lives alone. brothers that never visit him or long enough to know that something is wrong, a neighborhood that doesn't sense the presence of people there, when somebody comes in and in fact it was the suspect himself

who showed it up with huge bags of hamburgers, five people, including himself, and nobody notices that. i know these are not giant statements that i've got four captives here but it does suggest that neighbors are not watching or don't want to watch. >> and over so many years, as you point out, do we want a more intrusive law enforcement, all of a sudden, you know, searching homes without warrants? of course not. but what you hope this kind of dramatic and stunning development will do is alert people to maybe be better neighbors, be more aware. there's a reason again to criticize any of the neighborhoods in the neighborhood but you just wonder, ten year, no one picking up on it. a couple reports of police doing not a lot that's apparent. one thing that's very important here, i think the police department needs to, instead of circling the wagons, instead of

being defensive, they need to ep up and do everything to explore what happened. we know that these three -- now they are women but they were all -- they all disappeared within a three-year period in the same neighborhood. we've got to look back and say, what kind of efforts were made back then? what kind of follow up was there? did they just sort of disappear in terms of the police efforts? that's the kind of thing that i think needs to be examined. and one thing that's always in the mind -- and i hate to say it, sounding like a lawyer, but one of the things that a police department or local government is going to think about is, gee, are we going to get sued over this? are there going to be families that look at this and say, you took ten years away from my daughter's life, some of the most important years. there's got to be accountability. and everyone has to step back, not even think about that. but do a very meaningful self-examination to see what

happened to here? how could this have happened? and make sure that the risk of this kind of bizarre and startling scenario doesn't happen again. >> it's going to be interesting to think about and learn about in the next couple of days, the policeman on that beat, the police women on that beat, they drive by in their squad car, i know walking the beat is common. where i live two blocks from d.c., it's a nice neighborhood but the police come by and introduce themselves. that is the ideal. you know who to call, call me at this number if you have a problem. i know it doesn't happen in some communities and some people can't afford that regular service but it is the ideal. >> and the ideal is what you described. community policing. there have been from time to times the government. you remember in the '90s, a lot of federal government went in to giving the departments the opportunity to expand their

community policing networks, exactly to reach out to neighbors, make more of a partnership between the police and the communities. was there a real sense of partnership here? we don't know but it's certainly one of the most important questions that has to be answered. >> kendall, stand by. we're waiting for this meeting to really get going, the inner play, the back and forth between that community and the people in authority. are they going to have that meeting pretty soon? i guess so. they are there. they are ready to talk. we'll be back with the meeting in cleveland as events warrant. i describe myself as a mother, a writer and a performer.

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[ dennis ] allstate wants everyone to be protected on the road. whether you're an allstate customer or not. all you have to do is call. [ female announcer ] call and sign up for good hands roadside assistance today. [ dennis ] are you in good hands? welcome back to "hardball." waiting for the real back and forth to begin, as events warrant, of course. you know, good question, will benghazi dog hillary clinton if and when she runs for president? yesterday's congressional hearing into the attacks was any indication, republicans are not going to let the issue go. they say the white house has tried to block the truth from

coming out and the former secretary of state helped them do that. the shift was to clinton, most of the revelations, if they are that, had to do with what hillary knew and what she did or didn't do during the attacks. for example, she called the embassy on the night of the attacks and spoke with gregory hicks. hicks also said that clinton's chief of staff tried to intimidate him after he spoke with a congressman about the attacks without a state department lawyer present. my question, what kind of picture does this all add up to? lisa myers and jeremy peters for "the new york times." so we've got two good people here. what did we learn yesterday that seems to be what you might call exposing the secretary of state, something that brings open to further questioning?

lisa? >> the call to greg hicks at 2:00 a.m. before the attack, cheryl mills, there are few people closer to hillary clinton than cheryl mills and thirdly we learned the reason that ambassador stevens was in benghazi at that time and that's because secretary clinton planned to come to libya later that year and wanted to announce that there would be a permanent diplomatic outpost in benghazi. >> so the republican people, it was a partisan-organized event apparently talking to elijah cummings. he was not consulted, if you will. they've established that hillary clinton was involved in operations. that she was calling during the time after the first attack and before they knew what had happened to ambassador stevens. she was in a position of being the top officer involved in that matter as secretary of state. can they then go forward and say, wait a minute, she had a

choice the minute she got on that phone, start giving orders, i want every military person in that order to go to the rescue. i don't care how long it takes, put every person out there. he's an important ambassador. we care about his life. he's still alive. let's try to save him. could she have done that? can't they make that argument? she's the boss. >> i think the argument that they are more interested in making is that she and obama have tried to cover up their knowledge of this as terrorism. >> how does that get to the issue of -- it's like no harm, no foul. oh, political spin. okay. so somebody first time in history this has ever happened, that the political party is trying to put a good face on something after something bad happened. it doesn't cause him to be killed, it didn't really cause any damage except to mitt romney and how is that going to offend the public? >> i don't think it has offended the public. it's riled up a small part of the republican base. you can't go to a town hall

meeting without people shouting, benghazi, benghazi. they know what it means. it's failed to catch fire in, you know, most mainstream middle of the road. >> if it was a spin orchestrated by somebody at state says let's not call it terrorism because that might be something we're not supposed to say right now two weeks before the election because we killed al qaeda, if that happened, worst case scenario, what's the damage there to anybody? >> i think what they are trying to -- what republicans would allege is that obama illegitimately won the election. >> because he spread the word throughout his bureaucracy and never said the word terrorism? >> exactly. that's why you see all of these analogies to watergate. republicans think it was mall fees sans covered up to help the president in the final days of the election. >> that doesn't tell us much because that's his position on what they are going to do with it. i guess my question is, why is he going back to this earlier

thing. i am amazed -- secretary clinton is all smart. i think almost anything that's ever happened happens in her head. she knows about it. and all of the review meetings and congressional hearings and media contact, she's never voiced the point, by the way, remember that 3:00 in the morning conversation i talked about in my campaign? it was a 2:00 conversation, i was on the phone in the middle of a crisis and here's what i did or didn't do. we didn't know about it until yesterday. >> first of all, her congressional testimony, which is the only sustained questioning on the subject, she basically tried to slam the door on any further questions by saying, remember the dramatic statement, what difference does it make? this reopens, i think, the questions. i don't think we know yet to what extent this does or might damage hillary clinton. i think the administration's biggest vulnerability here is, first of all, how do you send diplomats into this dangerous of an area to facilities that are

not -- do not even meet minimum security standards? how do you then reduce the level of security by taking away some of the military personnel that they have and then how do you, when you know that these people are in trouble, not find some way to move heaven and earth to at least get zsh i-- >> i'm with you on that one. i think hillary clinton does care about her ambassadors. how many people have we got there, what's the closest men? let's go, go, go. let's go. it's happening right now and she thought he might still be alive. but this other question of courageous ambassador, which we're told chris stevens was, you're assigned to a country like libya which is not quite stable, right? >> right. >> it's a country that doesn't have a government yet and what we have for security forces are militias and we have to set up ties personally almost in every case we go somewhere with some local chiefton who has

semiautomatic rifles, can you watch our guys, can you get a safe passage and it's always hairy and dodgy. how do we take away the danger in areas like that? we can't have soldiers sitting there. >> we didn't have a contingency plan. these guys are in harm's way. it's important. >> it's not for the ambassador -- and your argument is that the ambassador tried to get something set up but he was rejected? >> no, he tried to get more security but he was rejected. there was no contingency fan or not even forces in place that could respond in short notice. >> this is what we're going to be talking about besides the facts. republicans see an opportunity to catch hillary clinton, who may run for president, according to fox news today suggested that they need to subpoena clinton to get more answers on the benghazi

attacks. in other words, they force her to testify. marco rubio also tied the investigation to the former secretary of state. he's another smart guy. i may not agree with him, but here's rubio. >> the president was in the middle of his re-election, one of the talking points was that terrorism had been defeated and he defeated it. what i think is sad is how many people are around the administration, including secretary clinton, knew this to be the case and allowed this to move forward anyway. you would hope that people would stand up and say, this is wrong, the american people need the truth. that didn't happen. >> earlier this week, senator rand paul had stronger words for secretary clinton. let's listen. >> i think that her dereliction of duty -- i don't question her motives -- but her dereliction of duty and lack of leadership should preclude her from ever holding an office. >> we have a clam bake here. battle of the bands.

everyone on the right are going after her. they are all there. as a political story, this seems to be their main chance. they are not going to beat obama on the guns. immigration is too murky. obama and hillary, two birds with one stone on benghazi. >> right. they are trying to raise questions about hillary's character, which is what they did 20 years ago. >> republicans like emanuel build a character issue? >> i guess so. i think where they have a trickier argument is in actually proving what hillary clinton knew about the terrorist attack and was it the video that spurred this attack or islamic terrorists? >> you're still getting into the question of spin. i think the only thing that matters, was anyone derelict to

let someone die. lisa myers, jeremy peters from "the new york times," thank you. up next, assault serious business in the military. it's becoming epidemic and that's ahead. we continue to watch the community meeting there in the cleveland kidnappings and we'll bring you that as soon as it develops. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. 4 cell phons 7 socks and 6 weeks of sleep but one thing you don't want to lose is any more teeth. if you wear a partial, you are almost twice as likely to lose your supporting teeth. new poligrip and polident for partials 'seal and protect' helps minimize stress, which may damage supporting teeth, by stabilizing your partial. and 'clean and protect' kills odor-causing bacteria. care for your partial. help protect your natural teeth.

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welcome back to "hardball", we're still watching that community meeting how such horrific crimes could go on without the police even knowing about them. we're looking back at the sexual assaults in the military and

disturbing pentagon report on that problem that came out this week. what a story that is. the report found a number of unreported cases as skyrocket, 26,000 went unnoticed in 2011 alone. reported cases are also on the rise, totaling 3,000. the reason for skrep pdisskrep , 62% say they experienced some sort of punishment on a social level. reaction from the white house today, a dozen lawmakers were there as they begin the necessary task to fix this a alarming trend of sexual assault. kay hagan was part of that white house meeting. senator, it's great to have you on. i love north carolina, went to grad school down there.

this is something that people need to understand. these are real assaults. these are attempted rapes. these aren't saying, you're wearing a nice dress today. these are actual what anybody would call assault, felonies that people are getting away with. >> you know, it is a real travesty, and the fact is these numbers have been increasing. and these men and women are putting their lives on the line right now, and for their personal safety to be at risk on a base is absolutely apprehensible. we cannot let this go forward. we have got to change this. as the president said, this is a crime and we need to take action. we cannot tolerate this. >> i'm just wondering, is it hazing? have you been able to sort of categorize or catalog, is there, i mean -- a felony is a felony, an assault is an assault. i'm trying to figure out the culture here. some guy does something to a woman, it's clearly not just bad taste, not bad behavior, it's

criminal. the woman knows she has to make a decision whether she's going to risk, what, some kind of payback, if you will, or just live with it? >> you know, chris, it's the stigma that is attached to reporting a sexual assault. one, we've got do be sure we can do away with that stigma. that a woman feels that she can go to an independent entity, that she can have a sexual victims assault unit that is confidential, that she can go and discuss that and so that she doesn't have to go to her commanding office to report this. the person that she actually reports to. she's got to be concerned about her career, about what happens next. is it going to be prosecuted? we need to have an independent review board that looks at all of these cases. we need to have a special sexual assault unit that actually mimics what is going on in the civilian criminal cases where there are sexual assault units to really help the victims of this crime. and one thing that really got to focus on is that somebody who's

been convicted of sexual assault gets kicked out of the military. i don't think at all that it's a good idea that the commanding officer can actually throw out a jury verdict of somebody who has been convicted at a jury trial of serious sexual assault. >> you know, there used to be a story around capitol hill, on the senate side. there were a couple u.s. senators. a woman would better off not get on the elevator with because they would grab you. i always thought this was interesting about men's behavior. they'd never do it with some other guy around. it seems like in this situation, the military, these men, i'll just guess a lot of them are men, are engaging in this behavior knowing other guys are going to find out about it but they just don't care. >> you know, i speak to a lot of women that are in the military. north carolina is home to so many bases and i've been overseas. i've been to afghanistan. i went to iraq. and i actually had women tell me that they had to limit their fluid intake in the late

afternoon/early evening because they were afraid to go to the latrine at night fearing their personal safety. here these women are, once again, putting their lives on the line for us at war, and they're worried about their personal safety at night. >> thank you so much for this. we got to know about this, we have to stop it. thank you, senator kay hagan, of north carolina. let's bring in goldie taylor, msnbc contributor and former marine. you've been there. what do you know about this? do you remember this as something that was part of reality of serving? you're laughing, but i'm sure it's not funny. your thoughts. >> the idea that this is brand new, this is decades upon decades old. i enlisted in the marine corps 26 years ago. i knew of a young woman on my base in indiana who was raped by an army ranger off base, forced to hitchhike back to base, abandoned on a road. it was reported to the commanding officer. not only was this man never charged, but she was sent to a

psychological unit. she was given lie detector tests. and finally her career was ended. she was absolutely humiliated. and so the very idea that this is something that ought to be adjudicated within the command structure is ludicrous. it is something that ought to be investigated, prosecuted, and it ought to be punished. you know, the very idea -- >> how do you intervene? you're saying ought to, but how do you intervene? i accept your word. every bit of evidence you've given us and personal history. but how do you get -- so mayor, general, you can't trust generals. you can't trust majors. you can't trust sergeants. you're saying, who else can come in and intervene and save some kind of justice and self-protection here? >> i believe things like this ought to be taken over by civilian authorities. i don't trust the military can police itself on a subject like this. i've seen it where, you know, commanding officers, whether

they be majors, sergeant majors, whether they be generals, step in and remove -- you know, the military is just like any other corporation. we move based on resources and prioritization. men and women serving in the military are resources. the priority has been put on saving the men, and the women have been disposable. now, to be honest, this is not a crime simply against women. men are victims, too. my younger nephew, who has sadly passed away in service, he was also a victim of gang rape while serving in the navy. so this is something we have to confront. the people who are out there putting forth legislation after piece of legislation, we've seen all of that. it's like, you know, those imagination dog leashes. the only person who believes you have a dog is the person who's got his hands on the leash. >> gosh. tough. well, thank you. no one is going to forget what you said. goldie taylor, thanks for your service, by the way. up next, the much anticipated film version of the classic american novel, my favorite "the great gatsby" is coming out. why we love it and when it comes to the new movie, we're going to take it personally.

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we're back. it is the great gatsby. it's about love and america, especially when we see it portrayed on film. the newest adaptation is a fl h flashy 3 d.d version. here we see the new and earlier gatsby in a montage put together. this is really well done. we have two scenes, three times. watch how they do it.

>> my little shack is just a cardboard box at $80 a month? >> your life is adorable. >> i live in westaire. >> i don't know a single person on the west side. >> you must know gatsby. >> gatsby? what gatsby. >> we live across tin westdale. >> you must know somebody there. >> i don't know a single person. >> you must know gatsby. >> i know gatsby. >> i know a chap named gatsby. >> what gatsby is that? >> the book is number one in the "washington post" best-seller list. the book's about 90 years old. the movie debuts tomorrow. my favorite critic for the "washington post." we may agree or disagree. i haven't seen the movie yet.

i want to talk about one thing. people forced to read it in high school and every year ever since. about lost love and the poor kid can't marry the rich girl, we get that. also about self-creation. why does it keep coming back as a movie, first question? >> because those things will never go away. we're constantly reinventing ourselves individually and as a nation. this is the great project we're embarked on and this is the great suma that affects us. psychological drives and financial drives. this one arrives after our latest almost depression and hat residences in terms of the economic context. it does contain just so many of the elements of the american characte

character. >> let me ask you about this leo dicaprio. leindia leonardo dicaprio. is he gatsby? >> he does a pretty good job. one thing he does in this film is restore gatsby as a youthful character. especially as we get older we tend to remember gatsby and his peers as older because they've had so many experiences. he's been through a war and a bootlegger on wall street. they're really kids, relatively young people. one thing i appreciated about dicaprio's performance is he restored some youthfulness to him. has an indeterminate speaking style that could denote an actor unsure of the accent but also completely appropriate from a man who comes from an uncertain background and sort of faking it. i thought his performance was the strongest of the film and

put me in this mind a little bit of orson wells playing charles foster cain himself was a got gotbiesque figure. >> jon faster cain. here here's dicaprio and milligan. let's take a look at this. >> is all this made entirely from your own imagine nation? >> no. you were there all along. every idea, every decision. if anything is not to your liking, i'll change it. >> it's perfect. from your perfect irresistible imaginatio imagination. >> so, my pal, do rich girls mary poor guys? >> sure. >> where does that happen? come on. that's the great story.

do they really do it? that's america. we are not really sure whether class matters or doesn't matter. your whole question gatsby asks about america, can you recreate yourself? >> my goodness, that's a huge question. well, i do think it's possible. i think we wake up everyday wanting to do that. >> thank you. that's why the movie works, i'm telling you. i'm hoping for this one. >> an hornaday. thank you very much for coming onto the "washington post." she gave it two stars, to be honest. we'll be right back. no. why? apparently my debit card is. what? i know. don't worry, we have cancelled your old card. great. thank you. in addition to us monitoring your accounts for unusual activity, you could also set up free account alerts. okay. [ female announcer ] at wells fargo we're working around the clock to help protect your money and financial information. here's your temporary card. welcome back. how was london? [ female announcer ] when people talk,

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let me finish tonight with this. there's a reason the great gatsby written nine decades ago is back at the top seller's list and a reason it's so many people's favorite novel and since they read in high school. two great themes. love, of course, the love of a poor boy for a rich girl. the other thing unique for america is self-creation. we're a self-created country, why wouldn't be a land of self-created people. gatsby put together his name from bootlegging and other enterprises and gave it all up for a girl he couldn't hope to have when he was a soldier going off to war. he was a dreamer and hoped to not just be man of money but old me on the kind daisy, his dream girl valued and it's the best

american story we have and we ourselves read on hoping the latest adaptation of the great gatsby will give the experience we got reading it all that time being in the presence of a true american dreamer, the kind of person who built this country and matched his dreams with a really good try. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. thank you for joining us. i'll be joined tonight by senator elizabeth warren who introduced her first piece of legislation, a pretty brilliant one, to help level the playing field for people buried in debt. and a report from the "huffington post," a company set to make a fortune on the back of college students. anothe