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director of the criminal justice practice at the naacp defense and education fund and msnbc contributor patrick murphy, a former democratic congressman from pennsylvania. this week we saw three separate sensational criminal cases c captivate the nation. and a fourth going unnoticed. what the three big ones have in common. in cleveland on thursday ariel castro was accused of imprisoning three young women for the last decade of kidnapping them, holding them against their will and raping them. the chorgs may grow worst as cuyahoga county prosecutor indicated after castro's arraignment. >> based on the facts i fully intend to seek charges for each and every act of sexual violence, rape, each day of so my big question on tax kidnapping, every felonous reform is what is the point of assault, all his attempted tax reform because it seems to

murders and each act of me that democrats and the obama aggravated murder he committed by terminating pregnancies. administration maybe are open to it because they looked at every >> that part about terminating other avenue of getting more pregnancies by force is key revenue and that's been closed since it could make castro off to them. tax reform maybe a way to do that. eligible for capital punishment. republicans basic divide we've seen in the last three years >> my office of the county we're not going to give any more prosecutor will also engage in a formal process in which we revenue. it's another dead epidemic. evaluate already to seek charges tax reform happens once every eligible for the death penalty. generation. you can't do in a couple of the law of ohio calls for death months. is there any point to it? penalty for the most depraved >> i think what the political function of tax reform right now is to permit some republicans like dave camp in the house to acts. >> in massachusetts federal prosecutors are awaiting word talk to democrats in the senate from the obama justice about a way to get to a deal department on whether they should seek to put accused because the only way republicans will agree to give democrats boston marathon bomber to death, more revenue is if they get something out of it in terms of lower rates. dzhokhar tsarnaev if he's so that's the function of it. convicted. can they do sweeping tax reform? public opinion is on the side of i don't think a lot of people executing tsarnaev if convicted. think that's likely.

but it let's them at least start 70% support for that aunt poll to talk about, we're going to get some lower rates out of this last week. so maybe we can begin this strong political pressure is conversation that gets us to a being exerted as well. place that raises taxes and cuts >> the federal law allows the death penalty. this is the kind of case it entitlements. >> it makes sense to focus on should be applied to. tax reform. the only other time has been i think they won't get it done. used on timothy mcveigh. the chances are better than something on a grand bargain on given the facts i've seen it would be appropriate to use the fiscal issues. the reason for that is there's death pen fault in this case and areas of genuine bipartisan i hope they would apply it in federal court. consensus. both republicans and democrats >> then there's jodi arias recognize our tax system is convicted on wednesday of screwed up. killing her ex-boyfriend her we have an extremely high case gripped much of the nation statutory rate but there's so with revelations that arias had many loopholes in the code so it stabbed her victims dozens of doesn't collect much money. there's tax preferences that time, slit his throat, shot him distort the economy and require to us have higher tax rates. in the head and claimed he was killed by an intruder. there is real opportunity to achieve a little bit of extra jury in case will decide next economic growth by making the tax code more efficient in ways week whether she should be executed. each one of these cases in that people in washington can broadly agree on. it's similar to immigration cleveland, boston and phoenix explain perfectly why there's where there's an elite consensus on the right and left through broad support for the idea of capital punishment. better immigration policies we can have more economic growth since the supreme court affirmed the power of states to kill back and more wage growth. so maybe congress can get

in 1976 support for the death something done on this. penalty has polled over 60%. it will fall victim to the political process but more the basic appeal of capital hopeful. >> we had tax reform in 1986. punishment is as old as the book it was reagan's big second term of exodus built not as popular achievement besides dodging the today as it was a generation iran/contra stuff. i wonder what did that mean to ago. the fear that drove public the average person you had tax opinion back then is rivalled by reform. another emotion doubt. it probably helped accountants, which brings us to the case that navigate this new system but should have been a big deal this what did that mean? week. >> it's a great point. doubt is the reason that the i was think about this. mississippi state supreme court intervened in the last minute on i was thinking, you know, this tuesday to stop the execution of is my job to pay attention to this stuff. willie jerome manning convicted if it weren't my job i would be shaking my fist because the 20 years ago of killing two obsession in washington is with college students. the federal budget and basically the state came after the fbi and has no, is paying no attention justice department informed mississippi officials a report from fbi examiners that was to families every day budget. critical in winning his conviction including statements what will we do with taxes and that exceeded the limits of spending. that's two way to indirectly science. manning may be guilty and may affect the macro economy. not be and there are a lot of the things that's keeping people cases like his. up at night, child care, cost of two years ago state of georgia put to death troy anthony davis college is not on the agenda. it's so frustrating. even though most witnesses who

testified against him recanted and there was no physical evidence linking him to the >> i feel your pain. the problem that we have is -- i crime, there was strong evidence bet if you ask all four of us what does congress mean by tax reform you would get four of police mishandling of the different answers. to a lot of people on the hill, case. there's cases of innocent people i can tell you, lauri will back being sent to death row. me up on this i think, to a lot nearly 15 years since anthony of people on the hill, capitol hill, tax reform means cutting porter came within 50 hours of being executed in illinois after taxes. that's what it means. that's all they want to do is being exonerated and freed at cut taxes. they say they want to cut tax the last moment. rates but broaden the base to that story shook the state's help make up for the lost revenue. revenue neutral tax reform means governor. he asked his wife how does that happen? a few years later, ryan commuted by definition somebody's taxes go up. okay. that's what it means. every death sentence in the state to life in prison and can't lower the rates broaden nearly a decade after that the base without raising somebody's taxes and as far as illinois out lawed capital enough republicans to block anything called tax reform punishment all together. that's not is going to happen. last year connecticut followed and last week it was maryland. so unless there develops a kind so, let's pick it up on maryland of a taste for kind of a compromise that would actually and kirk you're from maryland. help clear out the code in ways and you have the experience we were just talking about, a that josh correctly suggested or

totally complete lui innocent needed i don't see it going person who was sent to death row anywhere. >> let's look what some who was exonerated. republicans are doing at the you have the governor of state level. they are killing corporate and maryland, martin o'malley a income taxes and raising the democrat, this was his second sales tax. >> right. >> incredibly refwresive measure attempt to outlaw the death penalty. that they do in the name of the first one failed. he pushed forward with it. public opinion not really on his economic growth at the top. that formula of economic growth. side to believe the polls and i guess what i think of when i so i'm very concerned because look at this, imagine if this jared obviously raises the story we're talking about in excellent point that somebody's taxes have to go up and given cleveland where there's so much outrage and the idea of having the vision of the economy that the death penalty for ariel the conservatives have right now castro is very, i think it's that basically the more money you have the more merit you have very popular to people. as an individual that is going if that played out or something like that played out in to be that people who are baltimore now in the fares of struggling already in this economy end up paying more. martin o'malley outlawing >> i think this is a well road capital punishment what's the message to voters who look at a block to tax reform. in 1986 the way it work they cut case like castro and say we want the ultimate punishment for individual income taxes and this. what's the message then to say raised corporate income taxes, no? >> i have to tell you there's by doing a lot to broaden the been 142 individuals in the united states that have been corporate tax rate. exonerated from death row. now that's not possible because there's a consensus on both i think we had 300 plus dna sides in washington we can't

elect more corporate taxes than exonerations in the united states. we do right now. we have a problem. >> whoa, really? the policy has failed us. >> or it wouldn't be desirable. by a large part. i don't think the obama i would tell any governor that this is the time we have to think. and when crimes of this nature administration has any interest happens it's a real heady thing in corporate tax reform. and people are going to make >> that's a sweeping success for choices. but we need not make too hastily corporate lobbyists. i'm sorry, but given the numbers a choice. i tell people you cannot -- you of where corporate revenue is as know we're in a place, you talk a share of the economy and about the polls and everything like that. federal budget the idea there you cannot climb over an could be consensus with any innocent man to kill the guilty. intellectual integrity we don't >> we should say, i guess, the story in maryland probably isn't need it i don't buy it. >> when you do international finished yet either because supporters of capital punishment comparisons, one thing that makes us look low on that is want to have a referendum on the about half of the businesses in the u.s. are organized such as ballot, i guess next year and they are taxed through the like i'm saying you have the individual income tax code. political will of the governor right now on the side of that's a big tax savings. outlawing it but the popular will to believe all the polls we >> there's a lot of big u.s. see, capital punishment still multinational corporations that polls at 60% plus. pay below 5%, an effective tax >> that's their right to have rate down to zero. you hear these reports this referendum you're talking regularly. that's because as josh said

about. honestly, the people have earlier there's a huge gap between the statutory rate and already spoken. i mean the senators, it was what corporations pay. 27-20 vote out of the senate and in order to get revenue neutral you have to close that gap and 82-55 at the maryland house. that means somebody in the we cannot, you know, say the corporate sector would be paying more in taxes and that has people have spoken. they had elected these blocked every reform. officials, and, of course, they what we're talking about here is have this right for the the mitt romney problem and paul ryan problem. referendum, but the people have both of them said i have huge cuts in the tax rates and i'm said what they want. >> what strikes me is that going to make it up in ways that there's a wind of change coming i won't tell you about. across america but it's coming across the north. >> because if they tell you you and increasingly death row is would hate it. >> i want to thank heather shrinking down into the deep mcgee, josh barro and lauri south. that's going to be problematic going forward because montgomery. increasingly two countries the president stands firm on within one. obama care. what we saw in mississippi with that's coming up next. ♪ this case, four hours before he's due to be executed, ♪ eventual there was a stay. on the back of the fbi and [ camera shutter clicks ] department of justice making [ male announcer ] fight pepperoni heartburn and pepperoni breath fast multiple pleas, admitting that with tums freshers. they got it all wrong. it really went to the wire. concentrated relief that goes to work in seconds and freshens breath.

and the fact that mississippi supreme court just a few days ♪ tum...tum...tum... tum...tums! ♪ before his execution ruled that tums freshers. there should not be dna testing fast heartburn relief and minty fresh breath. in this case. i i think it was fairly jaw dropping. what's happening in the south how we get there is not. you have a judiciary willing to we're americans. go ahead with executions and in we work. we plan. the north a political class that's unwilling to go ahead ameriprise advisors can help you with it. >> it's as if astronauting to like they've helped millions of others. look at it. we put a map up of the states to help you retire your way, with confidence. that out lawed it. ♪ that's what ameriprise financial does. i guess what i wonder is, we have the case in mississippi that's what they can do with you. let's get to work. this week where there's doubt. ameriprise financial. more within reach. we have the case in georgia that, the troy davis case where there's clearly doubt. but then what happens in situations where there really isn't doubt? you know, i think of people looking at dzhokhar tsarnaev in boston. most people look at that and say there isn't much doubt here, what this guy did you couldn't do anything worse than what this guy did and how is death not the

appropriate punishment for that, for killing others? >> you know, i think in those cases we have to be careful. i would bet that kirk would say at the time he was prosecuted and i bet the 125 other people on death row would say at the time they were prosecuted, the prosecutors, the public at large were saying this is a very clear cut case of guilt, this is a person that's definitely, absolutely unquestionably guilty. in the excitement and anxiety and upset of what are unquestionably brutal terrible crimes, mistakes are made and we know that. there's no question about that. not only are people convicted that are innocent, you see prosecutorial misconduct, you see mistakes made by the police department, you see constitutional error over and over again in capital cases in the united states. certainly these are terrible crimes that call for punishment but i think what we have learned is because there is so much error when you're talking about

the death penalty, it's something different and you have to be more careful and in my view we shouldn't have the death penalty. >> i'm a person who bheeelievese i'm goining to dream about t that steaka. death penalty can be a deterrent i'i'm going toto dream about thatat tiramisu.u. and it should be. that's why we need reform. i understand what happened in whwhat a nightht, huh? maryland last week. think four years ago we had the but, u um, can thehe test drivie be over nonow? d.c. sniper who killed ten head b back to the d dealership?p? people, who had the whole region [ mamale announcncer ] it's praractically y yours. in lockdown and he was put to but we stitill need yourur signaturere. death four years ago in 2009. volklkswagen sigign then dririe is back. anand it's nevever been eaeasir to get a a passat. in cases like that where it's that's's the powerer of german n engineerining. very clear and convincing get $0$0 down, $0 0 due at sig, there's forensic evidence and in $0 depososit, anand $0 firstst month's p pt these type of cases when i argue on any n new volkswawagen. vivisit vwdealaler.com tododay. for reform because i do believe it can be a detriment we need to make at any time highest priority, a case that has national or statewide president obama kicked off significance not just a case his latest campaign yesterday to raise awareness about his where it's sensational like jodi signature achievement, one is arias or what's going on elsewhere but a case where it that's still being debated more than three years after its had national significance. we have to move forward with the enactment. critical dead lines for the death penalty. implementation are fast >> ultimately this is still a approaching and the white house want americans to know exactly

political question and we see in maryland it could be very what's at stake. >> if you're one of the tens of obviously a political question if this is on the ballot but you millions who don't have health also have elected officials who are answering to a public and insurance, beginning this fall when there are cases like the you'll finally be able to sniper or cases like boston, compare and buy quality, those elected officials are taking into account, you know, affordable private plans that that public ground swell for we really want these people to pay. work for you. if you already got health i want to ask -- we have patrick insurance, this is just enhanced here. i want to ask how you balance it. if you don't, you're going to be what kristina raise with that able to get it. public desire for the ultimate >> so far obama care has justice when we come back. [ jackie ] it's just so frustrating... survived a supreme court challenge in the 2012 election but the intensity of republican opposition is hardly letting up. house majority lead eric cantor another vote to repeal obama care next week making that 40 attempts at repeal since the ♪ passage in 2010. the middle of this special moment next day speaker of the house john boehner and mitch mcconnell and i need to run off to the bathroom. sent a letter to president obama ♪ informing them of their refusal i'm fed up with always having to put my bladder's needs to nominate individuals to an ahead of my daughter. advisory board. ♪ boehner and mcconnell reiterated so today, i'm finally talking to my doctor

their support for killing obama about overactive bladder symptoms. care. boehner was asked whether he thought there was a way to [ female announcer ] know that gotta go feeling? improve obama care which he ask your doctor about prescription toviaz. called the law of the land briefly after the 2012 election one toviaz pill a day significantly reduces and he had this to say. >> i don't believe there's a way sudden urges and accidents, for 24 hours. to fix this and to make it if you have certain stomach problems or glaucoma, acceptable to the american people. >> this came after the spokesman or can not empty your bladder, you should not take toviaz. for the national republican get emergency medical help right away senatoral committee said on if your face, lips, throat or tongue swells. monday he sees obama care a toviaz can cause blurred vision, driving issue in the 2014 mid dizziness, drowsiness and decreased sweating. term elections. do not drive, operate machinery or do unsafe tasks it will relegal a lot of kinks, until you know how toviaz affects you. a lot of red tape, a lot of the most common side effects are dry mouth and constipation. taxes, a lot of price increase. it will be an issue that's front talk to your doctor about toviaz. and center for voters in more tangible way than it was in 2010. i want to bring in sara cliff a health policy reporter for "the washington post," harry bacon jr., and returning to the table we have msnbc contributor and former democratic congressman from pennsylvania patrick

murphy. perry, i'll start with you. i'm a little confused i guess when i see boehner talking this week, when i look at republicans so you can capture tyour receipts, ink forfects areall business purchases.tion. planning to make this the issue and manage them online with jot, of 2014. we had the supreme court case, the latest app from ink. this got all the way appealed to the top and upheld. so you can spend less time doing paperwork. we had the 2012 election this and more time doing paperwork. was a centerpiece issue. the president was re-elected. and then you had as we said very ink from chase. briefly after the election john boehner said it's the law of the land but we're still in 2010. >> key thing here the republican party is divided on immigration, gay rights, divide on social issues. obama care is one thing they can agree upon. john boehner has a hard time to get his members to agree where to go lunch. but he's sure when he has an obama care vote it's an issue they can mobilize, the governors agree, the base agrees. this is the one thing they can push in 2014 where they are

confident conservatives are behind it. >> wonder where the consciences will be behind it, i wonder where the public will be. the implementation will start happening in the next year. we say implementation we're talking about setting up these health insurance exchanges, people who don't have insurance, aren't covered through their employers will get it through these exchanges and sara, jonathan comb who covers health care wrote about this implementation phase. his assessment was it's not is going to work as well as many of us would like in the initial adjustment may not be easy. this will be rougher even if it's good in the end rougher than we expect. >> that's a fair assessment. so we were talking about how we've seen the president in a is this in a lot of ways a news conference last week said there will be bumps in the road. political question, and it strikes me the last time there when you talk about the task, was a presidential candidate who signing 30 million people up for ran who was basically health insurance, for private health insurance, something the unequivalentally openly opposed government has never attempted to capital pun jushment it before that, you know, the last time we did something comparable

created a moment in politics. was 1965 with medicare and i want to play that clip right medicaid. now. right now there's a poll last >> governor, if kitty dukakis week, 42% of americans aren't even sure if the health care law were raped and murdered, would is standing. if you're not in washington you favor an irrevocable death following the day-to-day, most people don't know what the law penalty for the killer? >> no, i don't, bernard and you is supposed to do or if it's going to work or if it was know identify opposed the death repealed by the supreme court. penalty all of my life. so there's definitely a lot of i don't see any evidence that work to do and you're seeing it's a deterrent and i think with the press conference the there are better and more administration is really effective ways to deal with starting right now to do its violent crime. outreach campaign and you'll see we've done so in my own state i think a ramp up through and one of the reasons why we october when open enrollment have had the biggest drop in starts and that's when you'll crime of any industrial state in see the intense attempts to get america, why we have the lowest murder rate of any industrial the word out. >> sara is right. rate in america. there will be hiccups. >> so that moment gets a lot of but if you take the long view of attention. i don't think hats the reason this, there were hiccups when michael dukakis lost in 1988. the bush administration passed it really got to the heart of medicare part d. there were stories saying this the emotional appeal of the idea is going to be the downfall, et cetera. of capital punishment. it's not true. people understand it will take people think of crimes where some time. it's personalized like that or but also look at medicaid. where the evidence seems to be and medicare. when medicare was passed under so clear cut that it cries out president johnson the majority

for, you know, that kind of of the senators, the republican punishment. senators were again it. i wonder how in the political ronald reagan, george bush came arena you can balance that sort out and said it was socialized of instinct that people have if medicine. one of the most popular programs it was my wife, if it was my in american history. when you take the long view of child with, you know, especially obama care there's no doubt this in cases where it's clear cut. will be a popular program. kirk what would you -- it will save lives. >> i have to say trying a case one last thing. when you hear the stories people through politics is really not like barbara stakes who is from the way to go. bucks county, pennsylvania, 58 you know, we have to really years of age who had a seizure watch ourselves when we try disorder. she basically lost her job and cases from a bully pulpit, so to health insurance. she's not eligible yet for medicare. she's one of the folks that will speak. probably mr. dukakis lost he was fall through the gaps that will now be covered if the states do in a tank running across the the right thing because the road. i've seen all the willie horton point earlier -- passed the 2012 ads. my thing is we cannot go forward elections and the supreme court. and put people in the limelight the supreme court had a huge when we don't know the facts yet hole when it comes to medicaid about a case. you know, you're talking about, expansions. states can opt-out. when we're really sure about >> you lay that history there something. i had five identification and say medicare was eventually witnesses positively identify me accepted by everybody in the political system. as the last person. are we sure we're on that same

i had one of the smartest trajectory. i ask because the success of the prosecutors in the state of maryland, judges, concerned implementation requires getting citizens but in the end they really young healthy people were wrong. we'll get to this point one time enrolled in this, because that where we'll make a mistake if it brings -- you need the healthy people in the risk pool to keep hadn't already happened with the costs manageable. troy davis and others and how can we pull it back. if they are not yoen rolled if i'll say this real quickly, they say cheaper for me 24 freddy pitts, he used to be a healthy young guy to pay the penalty instead of getting, you board of directors, chairman of know, you can't get the bare the board at witness of bones insurance option any more innocence. you'll get a more comprehensive, you can free an innocent man from prison but you can't free are we sure this -- >> you can get a bare bones for him from the grave and this is what we have to worry about. >> that's part of the challenge under 30. >> i got to learn. of death penalty opponents is >> so you're part of the 42%. making the case that, you know, just not having a death penalty and having life in prison isn't i would say the administration going easy on anybody. did think about this and thought about the fact they really do >> this is my point. need these young people, the listen, i don't sit here and say key, the young invincibles i'm for the death penalty. because they think they haven't had health problems they don't i was in congress for four need insurance. they created a catastrophic years. as someone who prosecuted option that's available to terrorists, i look at this and americans under 30.

say it's not a deterrent right only young americans can get it. now in america and it need the idea is it's a lower premium, entice them into the reform. the easiest thing for michael risk pool. dukakis say it's not a >> the political thing people deterrent. younger that are invincible and the evidence shows it's not. the congress and united states republicans are trying to say and state legislatures but they will make you get health especially the congress hasn't insurance and if you don't get taken the initiative to look at it they will tax you. this thing and say is this it's a free. you know how much it? really the right thing to do? yes did it work for timothy $95. if you don't want to opt-in, but mcveigh. $95 if you don't because we absolutely. that was right way done the should all be in this together. right way. would have worked for bin laden >> one of the rules about health if we brought him back alive. insurance and it is a rule and yeah, probably. we're in this together, at the in my case, at least how i see end of the day, basically in any it, as someone who is a devout kind of health insurance pool that works you have the healthy catholic, and i look at the lay subsidizing the ill so you issue and i happen to be pro really do need those young folks choice so i get beat up from the in there. one of the problems we haven't right on that one. hit on right now is that but there's no real people congress particularly saying let's reform this thing republicans in congress are really tightening the purse let's make it happen because strings on the money they are there's not the political will but to me when i look at, you allowing the administration to use for implementation. i read a number the other day know, the commandments, the fifth commandment you shall not that said, if you compare this kill. to the amount that congress that basically means murder in granted to implement medicare

the catholic faith. you can't commit murder. part d the bush program that in my case or in my view the death penalty isn't murder if included prescription drug it's used as a deterrent. coverage, we're at one-third of >> when we say a deterrent that. congress is allotting one-third that's what i wonder. of that 0 implement the to me if it's going to be a affordable care act which is deterrent it has to be something much more complication. carried out swiftly and in a lot >> implementation is key to get of cases but the message, cases people into the risk pool to make it work. like yours kirk seems to be that sara, you broke some interesting if you isolate to a few cases news yesterday about where that money might be coming from to like bin laden or something okay get public awareness up. you got a good chance of not i want you to explain that after this. executing somebody innocent but the more widely it's used the -- these digestive issues... >> most of these cases are not with three strains of good bacteria. done right away. my argument for reform is if you [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'. put the highest priority on both side of the aisle where you have not just witness statements you i did? have dna you have the forensics when visa signature asked everybody what upgraded experiences really mattered... that prove it but also the best you suggested luxury car service attorneys on the other side and instead of "strength training with patrick willis." the full weight of justice system on both sides going at come on todd! flap them chicken wings. each other for true justice. [ grunts ] remember, those who advocate for well, i travel a lot and umm...

the death penalty including [ male announcer ] at visa signature, folks of the catholic st., saint every upgraded experience thomas aquinas said the death comes from listening to our cardholders. penalty shouldn't be used for visa signature. your idea of what a card should be. [ female announcer ] stress sweat is different than ordinary sweat. convenie vengeance it should be used as a it smells worse. get 4x the protection against stress sweat. deterrent. you could reform it to don't make it more of a deterrent. >> see ed wants to address that. ? nah. okay. this, won't take long will it? no, not at all. how many of these can we do on our budget? more than you think. didn't take very long, did it? this spring, dig in and save. that's nice. post it. already did. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. show mom why you're her favorite, with a 12" infinity color bowl, a special buy at just $14.98.

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so, sara you broke some news about how the administration may be coming up with the very vital money i want needs to get information out there about implementation. >> to lay the ground work for this, they see themselves as cash-strapped right now. cbo say it will cost $5 to $10 billion over a decade to implement this law. congress is not interested in giving you any more money.

what i learned what secretary sebelius has been doing is calling a number of health care executives and nonprofits and groups and saying we need your help. and with some groups, groups she doesn't regulate has been asking specifically for financial donations to some of the nonprofits that will do outreach work and it's pretty unusual from what i understand, you might know more about this but for a cabinet secretary to be going hand in hat -- >> sounds it's skirts some ethical questions. >> you're already seeing -- i think they really did expect, you know, with the way republicans had reacted to this about the death penalty as a law they will get oversight no deterrent. >> you were talking about matter what they do. reforming. there's a state in speeding up you're seeing calls for the process, it's called investigation, is this appropriate. florida. they just considered to a law to hhs said yes we think we're within the bound of the law. >> that speaks to part of -- you hear the criticisms about obama introduce, to bypass the care, coming from the right. hurdles. they have the highest rates of one of the criticism from the left is how friendly this is to the business of insurance exoneration. that kind of makes my point. companies and if sort of you're

looking now to that world to there's a bit of european in me help pay for implementation that wells up in a discussion like this. come back to the basic point you're saying there's something in this for you. we're discussing should we or >> think so. insurance companies are going to should we not kill a person. run their own campaigns because i've sat in many courts across they love people to sign up for the country and i heard the insurance they want them to sign country's top lawyers, the best up for aetna's insurance or blue legal minds in the country cross's insurance but there's a coming together to discuss the sense in the administration they question shall we kill this man? just can't pay for this themselves. that they are going to need more for me that's so primitive. support from private industry, from nonprofits, from the country that is the, that calls itself in many ways i foundations. especially i think one of the think is the greatest country in interesting things is the test the world has this extremely has become much bigger than primitive need to kill people. anyone expected. you have hhs running the aren't we reducing ourselves to majority of the exs, they the level of those people we're are dealing with a lot -- confronting. >> so you talk about florida and >> these states themselves can you talked about the regional divide earlier where sort of in decide we don't want to implement the exchange. the south, in a lot of red we don't want to get the states you have the death exchange up and running. that want means the federal penalty. there's also disparity in the government then has to come in. more states that say we're not north that have a death penalty, interested you set up the how frequently they use it. exchange that creates another texas also comes to mind as a administrative part. state that uses a lot. >> texas and florida one of this is a famous clip from two

every five who are uninsured years ago when rick perry was live in those two states. asked in a debate about the you have rick perry whose opposed to any part of this law executions in texas. this is what happened. and rick scott, legislature >> your state has executed 234 there you can't operate here. the problem is enroll in america death row inmates more than any to sign up people and they spent other governor in modern times. a lot of money in texas and florida because those states what do you make of that dynamic basically having the governor and particularly texas saying that just happened the mention no, no. of execution of 234 people drew it's bad. applause? >> i think americans understand you have an information challenge. perry is so anti this law. justice. >> i mean there's been a fair amount of attention to the possibility that at least one >> arkansas a democratic innocent person was among those 234 executed in texas and yet governor but republican legislature. the instinctive response of sort >> they are trying to pull off this odd thing. they want to use the medication of the red state america crowd was to applaud? expansion money to buy private >> well, we can be happy to talk insurance for anyone who would be eligible for medicaid. about texas justice. i currently represent a it's -- gentleman who is on death row in >> i think it could work. >> seems like hhs has been top texas named duane buck. he was sentenced to death after option. other states have sploerd it. a psychologist presented tennessee looked at doing it. testimony on cross-examination one of the things they want to by the prosecutor indicating make it more like private that mr. buck was likely to be insurance and increase the

dangerous in the future because co-pays and deductible. he's black. hhs said you can't do that. period. patients have to get the same we did further investigation and benefits. arkansas seems to be moving we found out that in houston, at towards a model like that one. the time of this trial, the da's >> not just the states but office was more likely to seek the death penalty for african-americans like mr. buck private issue. and harris county jurors were hospital systems are the ones twice as like to impose death who carry the most brunt when you want comes to medicaid sentences on african-americans like mr. buck. because everyone can go, there's a long, long history of obviously, anyone can go to the emergency room and get treatment. racial discrimination in the the problem is that the hospitals aren't getting administration of the death reimbursed for that free care. penalty in texas and that literally goes back to the beginning of the death penalty in texas. when i talk about barbara in in fact there's never been a time in texas where there hasn't bucks county and there's 6,000 been a problem in terms of the more like her in pennsylvania. we need governors to expand the way it's been administered. medicaid which is a major crux there's victim disparity, race of the health care bill. of victim disparity, unbroken but unfortunately the supreme record in texas in terms of court blew a major hole in that. acproblem of racial disparity and disproportionality. >> in 1966 "new york times," the administration of the death penalty. july 1st, a top medicare texas has nothing to be proud of. today right we have the attorney officials said many doctors and

general and the da's office hospital officials don't understand the program. sound familiar. pursuing mr. buck's execution a committee of top republicans from the federal government and despite the fact that now a u.s. the state said president johnson had failed tragically to prepare senator now texas attorney general john cornyn promised for the start of medicare. that in the face of this kind of we don't want people to get racial discrimination mr. buck would get a new fair sentencing. worried about medicare and they've gone back on that promise and actively seeing mr. instead of part d how the states buck executed. >> this is part of the story in will stop this. white house is trying to build many cases in mississippi too, the evidence we're alluding to the argument this will have some problems at the beginning but we in the intro, the feds basically have a long arc to make this said we can't vouch for the work. >> if we look at that scientific accuracy but that was intersection of public opinion an fbi investigator saying that and political system with until he could say clearly that the pleamentation of this there's a hair removed from the scene, he deadline looming 2014 elections and i want to talk about if the could say which race, the person it came from. republicans are right if this is the issue they think it is in the federal government says no we can't stand by that. >> that's failed science. 2014. hair comparison testing has never worked. there's so many things involved. they wrote a report and told them that there were errors in this testing. there's not even -- it's not even that, the science is junk.

hair comparison testing sent many a man and person to jail. i have a friend of mine that's how he went to jail, chris connor from the state of maryland, he had two head hair, both were not his but two different. they tried to say they were his. the man did 19 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit. i think we really need to take pause here and do the right thing. >> i think that kirk's point is really important because speeding it up doesn't get us past the fact that there are mistakes going to be made. that increases the likelihood, frankly, that mistakes will be made when you talk about moving up the pace of the process. even in a streamlined death penalty system mistakes will be made because ultimately human beings are administering this process. by biases like racial discrimination, extreme emotion

in the face of horrible acts. mistakes will be made no matter how you structure and frame this system. because you cannot be sure like in texas that someone is, you know, isn't going to be killed who is innocent, you just can't continue to have this penalty. >> i want to ask if we're maybe at a key turning point in history right now in terms of the politics of the death penalty because there's something striking about the fact that it's martin o'malley doing this in maryland. i want to get into that after this. with the spark cash card [ male announcer ] from red lobster's chefs to your table from capital one... boris earns unlimited rewards for his small business.

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back then, favorable, unfavorable. now almost four years, more than three years later, one recently 43 favorable, 39 unfarvable. for everything that's happened in the last three plus years these numbers haven't budged. is it any less polarizing an issue in the 2014 since 2010? >> i have no reason to think so. public opinion remains confused and i think in part is because people just don't have to real pay attention to this right now. they got a lot of other things that we've been talking about throughout the show to worry about. one of the important things in the law and the president emphasized is that for most people who have health insurance the affordable care act won't affect them at all. i suspect that includes us and a lot of people listening to us. a lot of head scratching, how will this affect us? on every purchase every day. are you still sleeping? that's a challenge on numerous

just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule. levels. >> i could see that working two ways. okay it didn't hurt me no big deal. i could see it seems to me that health care reform has existed simultaneously in two different spheres for people. one the component parts of the affordable care. we have a poll. the first technology of its kind... we'll put these poll numbers up mom and dad, i have great news. there. the component part of the is now providing answers families need. affordable care act are extremely popular. they like what they are trying siemens. answers. to do. then you ask what's your opinion of obama care and 37% up there. it seems like people are thinking simultaneously they . so the fact that it's martin like the law, the individual o'malley in maryland who is leading the way in that state to parts of the law but because they don't feel it this thing obama care that's blowing a hole in the budget. abolish capital punishment something terrible. because martin o'malley is >> we're calling it obama care. interested in running for president in 20106. 47% are skeptical because of the the next example of that that very nature of it. one challenge the president mentioned insurance companies maybe notorious, pk running in raise rates all the time. people lose jobs and lose their 1992, trying to be the health insurance all the time anti-dukakis and during the for all kinds of reasons.

now if you're a conservative, primary, a man on death rowe who you're a business that wants to lay off workers, it's because of had very limited mental obama care. abilities. it will come as a bit of excuse he had killed a police officer, turned the gun on himself. for everything that goes wrong he basically, i think one report in health care and that's one i read basically was the big challenge will happen if you're in a community somewhere, equivalent of being lobotomized. your community wants to lay off workers, you can now say well it's because that law even bill clinton took a break to though it wasn't and i think -- sign off on the execution of >> you have a lot of -- this man. >> people are vetting it. it strikes me it still polls, >> papa johns got a lot of blow the death penalty still polls but we've reached a new point if back when they looked at it. you're an ambitious democratic red lobster. everyone who has tried it so far from one of those blue states the correct position now americans like having health politically at least is to insurance through their job and even if you drop it and blame it oppose capital punishment. it's safe to do that in a way on obama care it ladies back to maybe it wasn't a generation blow back in the public. ago. >> i think that's right. you see them walk back quickly. i know that we're at an all time >> it goes also to the low in terms of support for the political thing. republicans got out of it as much as they could. death penalty in this country and i think that's reflectist of they took 64 seats in the 2010 the phenomenon of the innocence election. >> yours was one of them. movement, the exposure of the >> at the end of the day, steve, last 15 years of people being

condemned to death who are my dad, you know, was a philly innocent. it's a product of the cost. cop an not political used to say we're in a v-you know, tough if you don't stand for anything economic times and death penalty you'll fall for everything. prosecutions, death penalty defenses are very expensive cases. i campaigned on health care when so it's hard to justify in terms of cost. it's also of course hard to i won and then lost in 2010. for folks who look at these justify in terms of deterrent things and vote on it at the end effect. we don't see it as governor of the day, judgment day is more important than election day. o'malley commented on in his and when the democrats help pass remarks he said you see states medicare in the 1960s, 25% of with the death penalty have higher homicide rates than the elderly were poor. states without it so there were poor and basically suicide really isn't a clear rate with the elderly was justification to support it or a political need to run on it. sky-high. >> in maryland it was so obvious versus now. when you talk about the positive from jurors, it was applied things you can't discriminate on differently from jurisdiction to pre-existing conditions. pregnancy is no longer a jurisdiction. governor o'malley appointed pre-existing condition. you'll give tax credit to small me -- i was on a commission that businesses. those type of positive things studied capital punishment back and the exchanges they are in '08 and we found out so much, creating the majority of doctors so many different problems with the death penalty. right now use electronic health economic disparity, racial records and that wasn't the case before. over half of them use that now. disparity, i mean from one

county to another couldn't >> you mentioned medicare in the apply. well the policies failed and 1960s the first mid-term it's failed for america. honestly the death penalty election after the enactment of hasn't protected or deterred any medicare democrats lost seats. what do we know now that we of these things that happened in the united states and never didn't know last week? my answers are after this. will. >> i would argue execution of what upgraded experiences really mattered... the policy has failed. you suggested luxury car service in my argument. instead of "strength training with patrick willis." >> i'm sorry you mentioned 2016. interesting about the only state come on todd! flap them chicken wings. outside of the deep south is [ grunts ] quite keen on the death penalty well, i travel a lot and umm... still is ohio. obviously a big swing state for [ male announcer ] at visa signature, a presidential election. every upgraded experience >> although patrick from comes from listening to our cardholders. pennsylvania from a swing district in pennsylvania, we talk about the incentives in the visa signature. your idea of what a card should be. democratic party now lining up for opposing capital punishment but what was your experience with that running in a swing ♪ district in pennsylvania? the middle of this special moment >> i had people that cared and i need to run off to the bathroom. ♪ deeply about they are anti-death i'm fed up with always having to put my bladder's needs penalty. that's where most democratic ahead of my daughter. base are, against the death ♪ penalty. but at least with me, i was so today, i'm finally talking to my doctor always straight with everybody whether you agree with me or no about overactive bladder symptoms.

[ female announcer ] know that gotta go feeling? i'm straight wmb. it can be a deterrent if it's ask your doctor about prescription toviaz. reformed. a lot of folks would agree with one toviaz pill a day significantly reduces me. those folks who don't agree with sudden urges and accidents, for 24 hours. the death penalty, there's if you have certain stomach problems or glaucoma, michael bloomberg. or can not empty your bladder, you should not take toviaz. until there's a game changer like that -- that's really cold. get emergency medical help right away but i think that's potentially if your face, lips, throat or tongue swells. what needs to happen on the other side. toviaz can cause blurred vision, and that's just a reality of dizziness, drowsiness and decreased sweating. politics. >> if there is a michael do not drive, operate machinery or do unsafe tasks bloomberg doing anti-death penalty ads kirk you should star until you know how toviaz affects you. in them. the most common side effects are dry mouth and constipation. anyway i want to thank ed, talk to your doctor about toviaz. exonerated death row inmate. christina and ed. austerity debunked in destroying our economy that's next. marjorie, i can't stand you. you're too perfect.

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so what do we know now that e we didn't know last week? elizabeth warren is using her first piece of legislation to try to level the playing field for college students. on wednesday she introduced a bill to lower the rate that all your important legal matters in just minutes. struggling grads pay on their student loans to 3.4% to 0.5%. protect your family... we know on july 1st the rates on and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. subsidized loans will double unless congress strikes a deal in that time there've been some good days. and some difficult ones. to keep the current rate. but, through it all we've persevered, rising debt doesn't hinder new supporting some of the biggest ideas in modern history. grads, it can press their earning power for their entire so why should our history matter to you?

because for more than two centuries, lives. house republicans passed the we've been helping ideas move flexibility act to less from ambition to achievement. employers kpen said for time off instead of overtime pay. ♪ and the next great idea could be yours. this is not quite the working ♪ victims for families it may seem. especially for low wage workers who depend on overtime pay. the real flexibility would go to employers. not only would they lose out on overtime pay, they wouldn't have the flexibility to choose when to take their comp time. if it does make it to president obama's desk, he has said he'll veto it. the year after vice president biden expressed hi support for gay marriage, we now know he may have gotten ahead of his boss again this week. this time on the keystone xl pipeline. on tuesday in south carolina biden told the sierra club in a speech in texas on activist he e poses the pipeline thursday president obama sought but inside the white house he to put job creation and economic was within the minority. growth back on the national political agenda. biden's office the did not deny >> we're poised for a time of the comments but is waiting for

progress if we're willing to a report on the pipeline before he makes his decision. seize it. not even five years after the worst economic crisis in our we now know there were an lifetimes our jobs market, our estimated 26,000 sexual assaults in the military of which only housing market, are steadily healing. 3,374 were reported. our deficits are falling at the the report found a 35% increase fastest rate in decade. in military sexual assaults the american auto industry has since 2010. made a come back it's thriving. president obama said of the report, quote, if we find out american energy is booming. somebody is engaging in this but we've got to keep on moving stuff, they've got to be held forward. we got to make sure that accountable. prosecutors stripped of their positions, court-martials fired, washington is not administering self-inflicted wounds when we're making progress. dishonorably discharged. but self-inflicted wound may period. this two days after charged with be the best way to clarify the nearly $4 trillion in deficit reduction that republicans and even obama himself have implemented in the last two sexual battery. they need a culture change and years. announced new initiatives to combat the problem. basic economic theory not to mention the painful real world now we know how much more we can do to serve those who serve. experience of our current i want to find out what my lackluster recovery tells us guests know they didn't know austerity is suppressing demand when the week began. we'll start with jerry

and need alsly restraining bernstein. >> we know that the white house growth. is really going to blow by a lot that opinion has been ignored of the pushback on the until now. on wednesday "new york times" the country's paper of record implementation of affordable care. listen to @ t's speech. surveyed nonpartisan economic analysts and financial advisors. their unanimous consensus america's reduction policies are i'm hoping they keep a stiff harming the recovery. private sector has been steadily spine on that. >> we now know the prices that gaining jobs since early 2010. hospital charge. it's revolutionary and sounds unemployment rate stands at mundane, but up until wednesday 7.5%. this week, those prices were that number could be much lower kept private until the obama economists say if the federal and state governments hadn't administration through medicare shed as many public sector jobs released hundreds of thousands of prices and now you can look as they had. the nation's unemployment rate at two hospitals on the same would be nearly a point lower roughly 6.5% and economic growth street and see that one doubles almost two points higher this year if washington had not cut the price of health care. spending and raised taxes as it has since 2011. in prior recoveries the government has added 1.7 million >> that shows the population changing so much and becoming diverse. public sector jobs according to that's a big challenge of the republican party. you cannot continue to lose 70%

a new study. in this current recession and of the minority vote and expect recovery public sector to win elections. employment has decreased by more >> there will be hundreds of than 500,000 jobs. thousands less abortions in america because of obama care. this current recovery look a university of washington study shows cut unintended pregnancies anything like the previous recovery, the austerity crowd 80%. didn't make massive cuts we 90% of abortions happened might have as many as 2.2 because of unintended pregnancy. million more people working. the elite consensus on austerity my thanks to msnbc contributor is showing it has no effect on jared bernstein, sharon kliff of top republicans in washington as john boehner indicated just the "washington post," harry bacon jr. and former congressman after that "time" story appeared pathry murphy. this week. >> what the president doesn't thanks for getting up. thank you for squoining us today seem to understand is that it's for "up." his policies that are under join us tomorrow when i'll speak with the leader of emily's list mining economic growth. and more. the economy is struggling. plus, thomas frank declaring the we've had four wears of slow, federal gun laws null and void. coming up next is melissa anemic economic growth and job growth and frankly it's harris-perry after the incredible news this week in unacceptable. >> i want to bring in jared cleveland, melissa examines young girls and who is truly at

risk. melissa harris-perry is coming bernstein. up next. we'll see you here tomorrow at heather mcgee. 8:00. josh barrow. thanks for getting up. all business purchases. and lauri montgomery. josh, i guess the striking thing to me about what boehner said is you have this story in the "new york times" saying wall street investor class is saying austerity isn't working the deficit cutting in the last four years isn't working it's harming the economy. if that won't move john boehner so you can capture your receipts, or republicans what will? and manage them online with jot, >> nothing. the latest app from ink. the reason is that everyone is fighting over this short term issue about what do we do to so you can spend less time doing paperwork. grow the economy and coming out and more time doing paperwork. of a deep recession. their eyes are on this long term ink from chase. goals how big the government should be and what it should do. so you can. both the right and left view this as an opportunity to shift government policy in the way of we replaced people with a machine.r, more or less government spending for the long term. what? fiscal austerity causes short

customers didn't like it. term pain the republicans want it because they want permanent so why do banks do it? reduction in the size of hello? government. hello?! similar at the state level. if your bank doesn't let you talk to a real person 24/7, when you have governments shrinking head count maybe some you need an ally. of the jobs unfilled is some of hello? the jobs the government shouldn't have been doing in the first time but it was the wrong ally bank. your money needs an ally. time to cut those jobs. >> i want to just amplify that and raise an interesting what i think is an interesting question where we are right now. josh is absolutely right. folks are not be driven by the kinds of ration enamel keynesian economics you outlined. they are being driven by a desire to use deficit anxiety, kind of get everybody's hair on fire about the budget deficit so we can slash and burn the size of government. what's interesting now is that as the deficit really comes down since aflac is helping with his expenses while he can't work, and the "time" article is indicative of this, people can't he can focus on his recovery. say as much, lauri has written he doesn't have to worry so much about his mortgage, about this as well. groceries, or even gas bills. kick! kick... we're looking at horrible budget

feel it! feel it! feel it! nice work! deficits, we have to cut everything right away. ♪ so their main talking point is you got it! you got it! yes! coming out from under them and aflac's gonna help take care of his expenses. what you see in the rooms of and us...we're gonna get him back in fighting shape. that is an economy that should ♪ be growing considerably quicker than it is. [ male announcer ] see what's happening behind the scenes >> we have a chart. these deficits from october, for at ducktherapy.com. october to april period. look over the last five years here at the hutchison household. this is the big news of the last few weeks, you look at the but one dark stormy evening... there were two things i could tell: she needed a good meal and a good family. projections. you look at that at a really so we gave her what our other cats love, steep drop just this year. purina cat chow complete. enough that actually we keep it's the best because it has something for all of our cats! hearing about the next debt ceiling deadline and now it and after a couple of weeks she was healthy, happy, sound like the next debt ceiling deadline will be pushed into the and definitely part of the family. fall because numbers are coming we're so lucky that lucy picked us. in so much lower than expected. [ female announcer ] purina cat chow complete. when i look at this, i guess always there for you. that's impressive in a way but also if we had not had austerity [ female announcer ] purina cat chow complete. what that's great. for the last two years, if we it won't take long, will it? nah. okay. had more stimulus would we have had more growth and be this, won't take long will it? no, not at all. positioned for more oppressive how many of these can we do on our budget?

more than you think. deficit reduction? didn't take very long, did it? >> at what point do we declare this spring, dig in and save. the deficit reduction crisis that's nice. post it. already did. more saving. over? if we keep the sequester which more doing. that's the power of the home depot. is looking increasingly likely show mom why you're her favorite, with a 12" infinity color bowl, to me within three years we're at a point where the deficit is a special buy at just $14.98. at a sustainable level the debt will be growing no faster than the economy. you have to won we get through this next debt limit and there's this morning my question. really no crisis to gin up the what will stem the tide of sexual assault in the u.s. kind of guff we've been seeing military? plus, house minority leader for caught or raising taxes. >> what we're left with is the nancy pelosi is coming to nerd ongoing job crisis where we land. and st moral protest in won't get back to the kind of north carolina. this time it's voter suppression employment this country deserves and so much more. until 2020 at the current rate. but first, teenage girls, sex this has always been the problem and who is really at risk? with this strange moment in history in which we're in an ♪ unemployment crisis. we have a party that's dead set on slinging government, supposed to be the party of growth but has stopped caring about growth good morning. because of political aims, is i'm melissa harris-perry. monday evening, 5:52 p.m.

taking aim at the deficit while not wanting to raise the taxes or grow the economy that's the the unbelievable story that has fairest and most popular way to reduce the deficit. dominated the news cycle began what we're left with is millions with this call to 911. i've been kidnapped and i've of people are suffering because of the political gain that the been missing for ten years and party has been playing. i'm here. >> i always thought the problem i'm free now. we faced in the near term is not >> that was 27-year-old amanda the budget deficit it's the jobs berry who disappeared the day deficit. so now the budget deficit is before her 17th birthday in coming down and the jobs deficit 2003, calling for help after emergeg from a 10-year nightmare. is still staring us in the face. berry along with her 6-year-old does it pivot from the jobs daughter was freed from the house of who rows where they deficit? the answer is no. >> not if the president gets re credit for job growth. >> that's it. we have that boehner clip from the beginning where right now none of this is rubbing off on republicans. republicans still control the house of representatives. they still can filibuster anything in the senate. i want to ask that question will this consensus trickle down the political system and if it doesn't then what? we'll get into that after this. all business purchases.

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so republicans have opposed the idea of stimulus for the entirety of the obama era but republicans have not always opposed stimulus. very recently relatively speaking in the george w. bush years they saw a stimulus when the economy was going in the wrong direction. i do wonder, well aware the polarization of the gridlock right now but i do wonder is there a scenario when republicans go back to being republicans of 2007. >> i think that's hard to see right now. they have so much built their identity about slinging government. the whole grover norquist, get it small enough to drown in a bathtub. grover is less influential than the club for growth which is punishing these guys if they talk about any kind of spending out, you know, forget about paying for it, any kind of spending fed. they want to see tax cuts and see government go down. this is their entire identity at this moment.

it's very strange, jared and i were talking about this before the show, why this has between reaction in the wake of a financial crisis that was caused, you know, here on wall street. why has it been a right-wing reaction. >> there's another piece. when the economy is going down, the economy is going up. it's going up too slowly but the idea you could say, you know, we're headed into recession which is when george w. bush got behind a stimulus that actually passed and ended up with, you know, 150 billion going out, that one of the problems for stimulus is that, you know, the economy is improving but improving very unequally. doing pretty darn well at the top. look at the stock market on a tear. for middle and low-income workers it's not going very well. the macro numbers point in a different way than they did when we headed into a recession. >> the economy is doing better than we can expect it to be doing given the fiscal policies

coming out of washington. >> that's the macro economy. >> right. >> talk about middle income paychecks or something -- >> did we see it in the job numbers too? when you look at the most recent report and revisions it looks like we had a lot more job growth in the first month or two of the year. >> the more recent months will have revision. spring looks better than the last two springs when we had declines in job growth. i credit the federal reserve for this. a latino of the malfeasance we've seen from congress have been offset by a very grievance tear policy. that's the difference between us and europe. in europe you see austerity driving economies back into recession because their central bank is not taking action to offset that. i think the deficit numbers we're seeing now we should remember are good news. the reason the deficit numbers are coming in lower than

anticipated is because government receiving more tax receipts than it expected which means the economy -- it could be a lot worse. >> what will it took like, though, if the sequester is here to stay, if there's no further stimulus? >> we're looking at anemic job growth. jared is the right raise the question of what kind of jobs? yesterday in detroit a place that has seen the most amazing transformation from sort of the birth place of the middle class to a place where there's been depopulation, obviously a huge increase in poverty and a real replacement with those middle class jobs which were, let's remember, not high skilled educated jobs but were the sort of jobs of today being replaced by low wage under paid fast food jobs and this week 400 by last count workers at fast food restaurants across city walked out and went on strike which is unbelievable to think that people who have no union protection, who are living and

working in an industry where most americans say yeah those are low wage jobs but the fact is those are jobs that's replacing the middle class jobs so those jobs are our future american jobs. if we don't make them better we don't have a middle class. >> two points are critically important. one is kind of where we're head, which is yes when you talk about the economy getting better in a totally agree on the macroeconomics and employment points, you really have to ask for whom is the economy getting better? because it's not getting better for everyone. this inequality problem is back. kind of maybe submerged. number two, and you maid this point earlier. there is a connection between the good numbers we're seeing on the deficit, deficit reduction. fiscal policy is pushing the wrong way. >> there's something interesting that i think is related to this that struck me this week and related to what lauri has

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say hi to the c-max hybrids. hello from new york. i'm steve kornacki here with msnbc contributor jared be bernstein, heather mcgee, josh barro and lauri. what's on the agenda still supposedly is this long elusive quest for a grand bargain, balanced long term fiscal deal where obama would get further revenue increases republicans would get these entitlement cuts that they had been seeking. that gets me to the point i was teasing at the end of latino hour and lauri you've written about this recently. but to set this up for months at

least we heard republicans saying the test of obama seriousness in these discussions, the test of his seriousness as a president his willingness to put social security and medicare on the table. in the last month we saw the president put social security on the table which would change cpi and medicare a little bit too. the reaction from republicans i think has been revealing. the most famous one, this is greg wall from oregon. he runs the republican congressional campaign committee. this is what he said when obama put it on the table and got serious. >> his budget lays out a shocking attack on seniors, if you will. we haven't seen all the detail yet so we'll look at it but i'll tell you when you're going after seniors the way he's done already on obama care taking 700 billion out of medicare to put in obama care and coming back at seniors again, i think you're crossing that line very quickly here in terms of denying access to seniors for health care in

districts like mine and around the country. >> and i want to play one more here. paul ryan who was sort of -- he was the gold standard for republican seriousness what was his reputation. this is paul ryan after president obama made that proposal. >> is it a positive sign he cracked the door at least on entitlement reform? >> i don't know if i would say he cracked the door. he proposed to change the statistic which saves money. that's really not entitlement reform. >> okay. it's fascinating to me that, you know, the minute president obama did what republicans had been demanding of him in terms of putting entitlements on the table they seem to be backing away from it and, lauri, you're writing seems republican leadership on capitol hill has a new target, it has nothing to do with entitlement reform it's tax reform. they say this is the new test.

>> tax reform is much more popular than cutting people's entitlements. so what happened was, right, obama said fine. you want to cut entitlements i'm going to propose some entitlement cuts, but when these guys had to defend the ryan budget, which cuts medicare in ten years out and changes it into a voucher program, the way they defended this and sold it to their constituents to voters was by saying we won't hurt anyone for ten years. we won't touch your benefits now. so this changed cpi comes out and realize, this is cutting people's entitlements right away. we don't want to say we support that. it forced them to retreat and think about this, yes the president made an offer but we're not sure we want to accept it. >> there's tension in the republican party on capitol hill with the leadership sort of making the political calculation that you're talking about but you do have these true believer tea party type members who are still -- who still want to really be going after entitlement programs.

>> don't get me wrong. they want to cut entitlement programs. they are very clear that the trajectory, you know, forget about the deficit today it goes like that in the out years. and the republican party has staked its claim to dealing with that problem and to a certain extent they deserve some credit for that. what they don't want to do is get specific about how they would handle it other than this ryan voucher medicare thing which is way far away and we can explain that. what you got now is, yes we want to deal with the problem. but we have no idea -- i mean the republican party is in complete disarray right now because they don't know how to respond. they don't know what to do other than these vague platitudes about tax reform. >> they also have been all over the place in the past ten years. think back to the republican party in 2003 which had a huge expansion of medicare when it was popular. remember who the base of the republican party is. it's the people who are drawing on medicare and social security.

so that's the lens we have to look at. the other base of the republican party is a lot of corporate donors and big pharma and big insurance companies 12003 was a sweet spot. they were able to give a little bit to republican base voters in terms of giving a prescription drug benefit and writing it in a way that was good for campaign donors. they went through in 2010 running ads saying obama has killed medicare through obama care. and then in 2011 you had paul ryan saying on the one hand obama killed medicare and then on the other hand i want to end it as we know it not for you current or near retirees just for the strange people coming up and drawing on entitlements not medicare/social security but drawing on entitlements a generation or two in the future. and then we have them going back again to rejecting change cpi which was originally a republican push and saying now we don't want any of that we want tax reform. >> i don't think the republicans

really have a strategy on social security. i don't think it's correct to say they are wholesale changing cpi. there's republicans in congress who would like to take that. part of the reason they are not enthusiastic and they don't like what it's packaged. change cpi is a change to the tax code that would be a modest tax increase and grover norquist talked about how this is a tax increase and you can't vote for it. when the president puts out this deal with the entitlement cuts half the package is spending cuts and he also want tax increases to go with it. social security privatization blew up in republicans face in the middle of the last decade politically and then since then i think there's also been a policy refrenchment where the republicans have seen how badly the stock market did over the past few years and no longer feel it's as wise as a matter of policy to privatize social security. with that policy gone there's no

republican message about what old age income security should look like. >> there's the talk about medicare too. not just talk there's the paul ryan plan. you learned the lesson from bush in social security, i don't know how they put the paul ryan plan out there? >> medicare is a genuine fiscal unsustainability problem. social security is 5% of gdp. it will go up to 6% so stabilize. there's a little gaup need to close. medicare you really need aggressive cost control and both parties have ideas about how to do it. >> the costs are coming down. >> a lot of this to me is an "alice in wonderland" discussion. it has very little to do with what's going on not just opportune economy as we discussed in the earlier segment but in the fiscal accounts. not only is the budget deficit coming down in the near term, lauri made this arc about the out players in terms of the deficit and there's definitely

something to that. but it's actually under scrutiny right now because health care costs are growing more slowly than we thought that were. whether that's recessionary or structural changes in how health care is delivered, the congressional budget shaved half a trillion dollars off their ten year debt forecast because of slower health care cost growth. part of that by is way is related to some of the cost savers that are in the affordable grow. there will be a lot more oxygen in this debate than we have right now. >> medicare and medicaid are more efficient than the private sector. the growth in the medicaid medicare is 3.5%. growth in the private market is 5%. you look at the fact that we have what basically the republicans want which is cost control in medicare, without harming beneficiaries through the ipad and they are refusing -- they are doing this where demagoguing it on a death

panel and getting sort of gains in voters through that but then also refusing to do what they say they want which is actually control spending through cost efficient delivery mechanisms that don't hurt recipients. i just can't see a genuine with integrity through line in the position on medicare or social security. >> in all of it i feel grew out of it. i've been figure out philosophically what the republican party is looking for. it's pretty clear. you talk about 2003 and the expansion of medicare and what that grew out of the republican party thought bill clinton in the 1990s won the compassion game. we need compassionate conservatism. what we've seen is a reaction to they lost badly in 2008 and the conservative base of the party concluded it's because of the compassion conservatism that gave conservatism a bad anymore. we need purify ourselves.

>> i think the other thing that's happening is that is why they are to discussion on tax reform. this is something they can rally around. >> how can they do tax reform if they won't accept any new revenues? >> of course they can do tax reform without revenues. >> tax reform as far as democrats are concerned involves accepting some new revenues in the deal. if your tax reform says we'll never accept any revenues it's not tax reform it's a recipe for further gridlock. >> '86 was revenue neutral. the republican argument is accept it or don't, let's do tax reforms let's lower the rates, it will unleash growth. >> this gets to the basic impasse we had since republicans won the house in 2010, the democrats are looking for ways to raise revenue, bring more revenue in and republicans have a base that won't let them do

that. i want to ask if anywhere we're going on tax reform if we're going anywhere on any fiscal talks. i want to get into that after this. [ male announcer ] this is betsy. her long day of pick ups and drop offs begins with arthritis pain... and a choice. take up to 6 tylenol in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. all aboard. ♪