you can expect some help. but what you might not expect, is you can get all this with a prepaid card. spends like cash. feels like membership. good morning from new york. i'm steve kornacki. they voted yesterday to return to power israeli prime minister. and nasa says two astronauts on the international space station appeared to have fixed a potentially dangerous ammonia leak. but right now i'm joined by kristin roe finkfinder, ceo of mom s rising, a grassroots grou. celinda lake, president of the democratic polling firm, lake research partners, stephanie

shriak, president of emily's list, and maya wiley, founder and president for the center for social inclusion. on friday, president obama delivered an important white house address in defense of the signature achievement of his administration, the affordable care act, likely to be one of the primary issues of the 2014 campaign. the president made his remarks to a room full of women and the very first constituency he thanked were moms. he then asked them to help him to fight attempts to derail the affordable care act. >> thanks to women in this room and all across the country, we've worked really hard and it's been now more than three years since congress passed the affordable care act and i signed is it into law. and for those of us who believe that every american deserves access to affordable, quality health care have an obligation to now make sure that full implementation moves forward the way it needs to. >> the president's political

appeal to mothers came not just two days before mother's day, but also amid a growing movement to mobilize mothers on a range of national issues, momentum prominently, gun control. this week, the group moms demand action is holding rallies in cities and towns across the country for tighter gun laws. in each event, participants are reading from an document called the mothers' bill of rights. the rights of americans are under attack. the right of mothers to protect our children shall not be infringed. mothers are also directly challenging elected officials. last week, for example, moms demand action held a protest-out outside the columbus, ohio, office of republican senator rob portman. he was one of the senators that voted no on expanded background checks last month. >> your mom says shame on you. you usually take pause and think. >> and on friday, mothers in new hampshire organized by the group mayors against illegal guns delivered letters to the office of republican senator kelly ayotte, another no-vote on the

background checks. >> dear, senator, no mother should have to bury her child. >> we're to the points that we should not sign the bill, and we know it's not the whole solution, but it's certainly a big part of it. thank you. >> mothers aren't mobilizing just on the issue of guns and health care. they marched for immigration reform outside the office of ron johnson in wisconsin. on capitol hill wednesday, a group called dreamers moms, using the name given to young immigrants who have been in the country since before they were 16, asked republican senator marco rubio to stand by efforts to reform immigration. >> so, celinda, i'm seeing all of these -- we talk about gun control and there are all sorts of different groups with moms in their name pushing for this. we have all these others issues, immigration, health care, there are groups on right trying to

mobilize moms, there's an anti-deficit group out there. is this a new trend we're seeing about sort of the targeting and mobilizing of mothers in politics? is this different from where we were 5, 10, 20 years ago? >> well, actually it's back to -- a return to a trend we had. we used to have, you remember the million-mom march on washington for guns. >> the million-mom march was like ten years ago, right after columbine. >> that's right. and moms really mobilizing. and moms have declined in their participation, actually. and in the 2014 elections, it looks like we'll be missing 11 million mom voter ifs we don't do something about it. this is very exciting to see the authority of moms come back to the forefront. health care's a great example. 80% of the decision makers on health care is mom. it's the one issue where your mom tells you what to do, go to the doctor, get the insurance, but they haven't been heard in the political debate. it's been a political fight rather than a health care fight. this is a very important mobilization. it's really back to the future. >> it is, though, i feel they have been heard the last few

months, at least on the issue of guns. i guess there's something particularly powerful in the wake of newtown, because of the movie theater shooting last summer, when it's a mother speaking up and saying, this happened to my child or i watched this happen to somebody else's child and i don't want that to happen to anyone else's. it seems there's a particularly powerful message there. >> absolutely. we had a tipping point with the tragedy that happened at the sandy hook elementary school, where women woke up across america to the fact that our gun violence prevention laws were horrible. they're inadequate. and 90% of the american public now know that we need background checks. so what we're seeing is not only women and moms calling for safer gun policies, we're seeing elected leaders take huge hits in their polling numbers, when they vote against moms. we saw that happen in new hampshire, where there was a 15-point drop. and what we know is that moms are a powerful political force. a lot of moms think that they're having this problem alone, and we know that when this many people are having the same

problem at the same time, we have a gnash structural issue. sharing the stories of moms bringing them forward is a powerful political impact. >> i guess when i think of the -- let's take issue of guns in particular. we're at this moment now where the background checks bill failed last month in the senate, but it doesn't seem dead. it seems like it could come back and be enacted and if that happens, then this mobilization of moms is going to be a big part of that. i guess what i'm wondering is, politically, celinda talks about women, mothers who have sat out over the last decade coming back. is it about mobilizing them and making them a part of the process, or is it more the idea, there's a particular power of mothers to shame public officials, to generate whether it's sympathy, whatever, to sort of move wider public opinion, because they're mothers. sort of the status of mothers. >> so, there is. and i think it's a very powerful symbol, right? i wish my children would see this powerfully, but it's a very powerful symbol to have a

mother, but i think one of the things we should acknowledge that women, particularly mothers, you could go back to 1966, when edith dooring led woman who were on welfare from cleveland to columbus starting with 150 and by the time she got to cleveland, she had literally 2,000. and they were chanting, we feed our children rice and beans, the rich drive around in limousines. you know, so women, particularly mothers, particularly low-income mothers, have been extremely active in social issues for decades. i think what we're seeing is exactly what you're pointing to, steve, is we're seeing the difference in the way that politics is rebzing how lifting up mothers as an active force that they've been is useful to advancing some of the policies we're debating. >> and i'm so glad you brought up that point. you look at the women leaders at the grassroots levels amid so much change.

but let's also look at who's there making policy. and slowly but surely, we have more women's voices and more mothers in the united states senate, in the house of representatives. emily's list has been committed for 28 years to work to elect democratic women to office. and we just had an historic election in 2012. we have for the first time in our nation's history 20 women in the united states senate. and you look at the conversation that is starting to change on critical issues, even in just five months, five months that they've been in place. particularly, not to -- the gun issue has been so incredibly important, and why it's not dead is those women and the good men with them aren't going to let that background issue be dead. but let's look about what's going on in the armed services committee and the conversation about sexual abuse in the military. we have five democratic women on the armed services committee. you tell me if there'd be hearings if we didn't have those women there. there haven't been hearings for decades on this issue. that's the other issue, the

people who are making policy, there are more and more women in there. not enough, but more. >> and on the gun issue, is there something about being a mother that made a story, i think it was overnight in texas, and there was, i think it was like a 3-year-old who was shot by a 5-year-old, something like that. we had a number of stories like this. in fact, i think we have a graph. this is just since newtown. these are shootings that have been documented of kids. this is just since last december and there's like 75 that have been documented. you can see the states are kind of shade there had by nine in florida. we had texas overnight. i think the child who was shot overnight is on a ventilator, still alive. we had the story in kentucky. the one that got the most attention two weeks ago in kentucky, a grandmother took two kids to the store and there's this group, there's this company, it's the cricket gun. actually, i want to play the ad. this is kind of amazing. it is literally a rifle marked

towards children. it's called my first gun, and this ad was on their website, i think it's been scrubbed, but slate caught it and i want to play that ad for a second. >> hey, where you going? >> shoot my new cricket rifle. >> i wish i had one. >> my first rifle. a moment you never forget. the cricket is the perfect way to get young or small framed shooters. started right, with a safety-promoting design. it's soft shooting, affordable, and accurate. girls and even mom will love the way they can pick one to their own taste. start your own tradition. cricket. find yours online or ask for a cricket rifle at your local dealer. >> so a grandmother went out shopping with her grandkids and bought my first rifle for a grandson and then he used it and shot his sibling and there was a death. and i wonder if there's something about being a mother that makes that story particular resonate and make something like

that just a particular call to action. >> one of the things we're seeing in the data, people thinks these are episodic incidents and there's nothing we can do it. and what's interesting about moms, they say, yes, we can do something about it. we can have limits and educate people. there's actually a huge gender gap on the data where moms are horrified by these kind of guns and dads are saying, we should go get our son that kind of gun. and the mom is saying, no, let's keep the guns safe. but the nra is mobilizing moms to say, know the power of this voice. >> except that 72% of women are in faufr of gun control. >> and so one of the things that's interesting to see, in the differences, 50 to 54% of men depending on which of the various provisions we're talking about. and i think it's really important not to separate identity out of this. because for men, one of the reasons we don't see those numbers higher is the masculine

mystique of being able to defend and take care of the family. and women, and particularly mothers, organize protection differently. right, we organize protection around safety. we organize protection around making sure that there aren't dangers out there for our children, rather than trying to step up to danger in an aggressive way. and i think that's part of the symbolism of moms. is that we protect differently, we protect the safety. >> and let's talk about who are our moms. 82% of american women in the united states of america have children by the time they're 44 years old. oftentimes when people talk about moms, they're talk about this small, mysterious group, but actually, it's the majority of us. everybody out there has one. i hope everyone's wishing their mom a happy mother's day today. >> note to self. >> exactly. >> but it's important to know, this gun safety issue is a big one. and to your point, moms notice safety issues. the cdc reports that 30 people are kill by guns each day in our

nation. this is a safety issue. and we see moms rising up not only around gun issues, but around other public safety issues. like the growing momentum for getting paid sick days. 80% of low-wage oh don't have access to have a single paid sick day. we're also seeing this at moms rising around immigration reform. we have moms coming together all the time to say, listen, we have a structural issue. we have a national problem. we have a safety issue. we need to be able to raise our children so they can thrive and importantly, so our national economy can thrive. women make 85% of purchasing decisions. and so when we're making less wages, kmops do, when we're not able to spend our money and can't raise healthy kids, the whole economy suffers. so bringing this to a national economic discussion is important. >> i was looking at the exit poll data from the 2012 election, and a statistic really jumped out at me about mothers and voting and i want to share that statistic after this. ou. you're too perfect.

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so when it comes to the voting patterns of mothers, there's a really stark divide. i think it was revealed in the 2012 election, this is from the exit polls. if you break it down, married mothers, mitt romney last fall, 58 to 41%. unmarried mothers voted for barack obama 74 to 24%. when i looked at that, i was surprised, first of all, to see that romney had won among married mothers. i was assuming that that would be more of a democratic lean. >> well, it was such a significant gender gap. and you can see why. we've got a growing number of unmarried mothers who are by choice and by necessity making that lifestyle choice. but what we're seeing in these elections, women decide who is

in office and who isn't. because there are more women in the population, there's more women in the voting population. and though that the married mother number is a little republican there, it's not by a huge margin. you see that huge growth. and then you go into the single, without children and women, and they far vote for the democrats. >> is there something about marriage, though? does it make women more republicans or does the institution of marriage attract women who are more likely to be -- >> it attracts -- it's more religious, particularly more religious women. s and also, you're more economically secure if you're married. so one of the things that's really driving unmarried women to vote so democratic. but let's be clear, and that data was from the voter participation center, a great group, the married mom still voted a lot more democratic than married dads did. only 49% of men and women agree. >> but you were making a point too about the growing sort of clout, prominence of unmarried

mothers two. >> the biggest societal change that we're seeing in this country right now is in 1980, 19% of births were to unmarried moms. today it's to 41%. half of births to women under 30 are to unmarried moms. this is a sea change in our society. and if you want to talk about the show we'll have two or three years from now, it will be how the unmarried moms really set a policy agenda, because we don't have a government institution, a state legislature, or an employer ready to deal with half the moms being unmarried. >> and to celinda's point about economics driving this, i want to just step back for a moment and talk about what happens to women's wages when they have children. so one study found that women without children make 90 cents to a man's dollar. moms make 73 cents to a man's dollar. single moms, that's that 41%, are making 60 cents to a man's dollar. and women of color are taking increased wage hits on top of that. we have a dire situation here, actually, where a quarter of young families are living in

poverty. and because of that, we see people being the canary in the coal mine. we see people having babies and it costs an extraordinarily amount of money for child care. child care now costs more than college in most states in our country. we hear all of this information about how to save for college and get pell grants, but we don't have how to prepare for a baby in the same way. so parents are having a baby off a cliff, off an economic cliff. and they are saying, whoa, this is a problem, we need to elect people, leaders who will help deal with this issue so we can actually raise children and work. because in order to work, we need our kids to be in safe, enriching places. >> there's also a race and demographic issue here. because when you look at the women who voted for mitt romney, 56% of white women voted for mitt romney. and that, also, geographically happened in the south and in places in which celinda's talking about where we're going to have ideological and religious differences. it's not just about gender, it's about the complexity of race, class, gender, and how it all

mixes. i want to say one anecdote, though, to your question, steve, about married women. i know a canvasser who was canvassing in boston for barack obama in 2008. he was a young african-american man. he knocks on the door of a home, of a white home, the woman answers, the wife answers, a white woman, and he says, ma'am, may i ask who you're going to vote for. and she says, sure, wait a minute, and she turns around and she yells back, and she says, honey, who are we going to vote for? and his answer was, using the "n" word, we're going to vote for the "n" word. fascinating, right, but it suggests there is some unfortunate relic of -- >> it's getting better. >> for all of the sort of backwardness in that, they still voted for obama. >> exactly. but it does -- it was such a powerful anecdote about even having a woman turn around to

ask her husband who they were voting for was amazing. and we run into it too. on emily's list, when we're going out and persuading women voters. again, so much better than it used fob. i wanted to hit on your point, well, both points about the policies and who's making these policies. i'm talking about equal pay. there is legislation written or proposed, i should say, that is trying to get brought up in congress, is trying to get brought up in states across the country. goodness, new jersey has passed it and governor christie has vetoed it three times. so there is this move that we're back to who's in there making our policies. and though we have made inroads, and though we are at 19% of congress as women, we are still only 19%. and those countries where we see a much larger percentage of women in elected office, we are seeing equal pay. we're seeing child care policies, we're seeing governments that are reflecting the societal needs.

and one of the reasons we pushed so hard to recruit strong, democratic women to office, and i'm going to talk to some after this, because there's some right here that i think we should talk about running, that we need these women's voices there, or we're missing a huge part of society in the conversation. >> you're getting at an interesting point there. and we talk a lot about the challenges women face in running for office and holding office. i wonder about the particular challenge that mothers's face. there's an interesting story from the relatively recent past about a woman who faces challenge. i want to share and talk a little bit about it after this. sure does! wow. it's the honey, it makes it taste so... well, would you look at the time... what's the rush? be happy. be healthy.

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we have cookies... get happy. get geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. so i'm from massachusetts originally and i can remember living there about ten years ago when massachusetts had its first female governor, her name was jane swift. she also became the first governor in the country to give birth while in office. and it ended up being -- obviously, it attracted a lot of attention, it attracted a lot of unfortunate headlines too, because she was fined by the

ethics commission because she eloyees to watch her kids, at one point. she was from the western part of the state, she flew a state police helicopter hope, got reprimanded by the ethics commission by that. there were a lot of negative headlines that came out of there. i'm wondering what is the climate like today for a pregnant woman or for a mother with a newborn in politics, to be running for office and holding office. >> every time something like that happens, i remember watching that happen in massachusetts as well and going, it's so complicated, the ethics stuff is so complicated. but because that happened, it's a little bit easier today. because debbie wasserman schultz who is a mother, a congresswoman, the chair of the dnc and the girl scout troop leader, as she was for a while. i don't know how she pulled all this off, there are role models breaking through this, and i don't know how to make this happen. kirsten gillibrand, who also had a child in office, we have

others, not as many as we should, but it's starting to change. every time there's a little breakthrough, it makes a huge difference. and i want to commend nancy pelosi, when she took over as speaker of the house for that brief moment, we're hoping she won't be back there again soon, she set it up so there was a place where women could go with their children who were serving in congress. no one had thought of that before. so having women at the top leadership positions. nancy pelosi had had her children, her children were grown, they were in college, they were professionals. she understood what it was to be a mother and then a grandfather. so she wanted to make the work environment, even the congress, a place that was helpful to mothers. and that's why we need, truthfully, i'm on it again, more women's voices. >> 36% of women are women of color. and so even when we look at congress, you know, we've made tremendous strides and it's extremely important and we're still not mirroring the population in terms of women's leadership. and one of the dynamics here, first of all, for a woman of

color to be a mom, particularly if she does not have a partner, which, unfortunately, is true for a lot of women of color, much harder to run for office for several reasons. one, you're stigmatized by virtue of the fact of being a single parent. secondly, for many of these women who are in office who are pregnant or running for office or pregnant with young children, i'm guessing both they have a lot of financial support and very supportive partners. because i have one at home, i'm not running for public office, i do run a not for profit, i would not be able to do it without him or without the resources that our combined incomes allow us to take care of our children, while we travel, while we work. and my brother works for a congresswoman who's an incredible leader. she does not go home. i know what her schedule looks like, because he's with her. i don't see him. he does not have children. it is an extremely complicated thing. and it only works when you have the kinds of family supports that kristen was talking about that we need all families to

have. >> and we need to work on voters too. because, actually, voters, including moms, are tough on candidates, women candidates with young children. and everybody likes the male candidate who has young kids. he says, that's great, he's going to be concerned about the future. the first we, particularly for women governors, as stephanie knows, who's going to take care of the kids? if there's a national emergency or an emergency in the state, is it going to be the kids or my family you're going to be worried about? >> and the other thing with jane swift i remember, her husband was a stay at home dad, and there was a lot of snickering and jokes made about that. >> that attitude is shifting. it's so fun, the attitudes about men shift faster than the attitudes about women. and there's a great book coming out by lisa madigan's husband, who is a cartoonist and a stay-at-home dad called captain america, talking about as their partnership is, that's one of the things that's facilitated their family, is his ability to have a stay-at-home dad and have

his career at home. >> celinda raises an excellent point. one of the things we need to see increasingly happen is the question, the test. when we see women vilified in the media, would they do that to a man. would the same questions be asked about a man? everybody watching the news with their kids and just on their own needs to be asking that question. if this was a man, would we be concerned about this? often the answer is no. and this is not just important in terms of electing women. this is also important in terms of the wage gap. i'm going to go back to the wage gap. so studies show that women are taken off the management track for fewer late days when they have kids. so they're penalized for having kids. we also know that there's a significant hiring bias. we know that with equal resumes and job experiences, moms are offered jobs 80% less of the times than non-moms. that's equal resumes and offered $11,000 lower starting salaries while dads are offered $6,000 more. so we have a significant question that we as a nation need to address, which is

discrimination against all moms. and asking that question over and over again, if this was a dad, if that was a woman without children, then would we still be concerned? because one of the things we know, we have over a million members across the country who are working hard, who are playing by the rules, who often have two jobs. it costs now $200,000 to raise a kid from birth to age 18, not including college. so moms are working hard and three quarters are in the labor force. and they are working just as hard as non-moms, if not harder. and so that assumption of kind of being backed out of work is not true. >> you put that price tag of there from birth to age 18, i'm -- maybe a decade from now. i want to thank celinda lake, of lake research partners, stephanie scliott. mark sanford's victory had nothing to do with race and it

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the revolt against president truman reaches its climax in birmingham. alfalfa bill murray comes out of retirement to join in the protest. more than 6,000 flock to the convention to select a presidential ticket. >> that was 65 years ago this summer. southerners bolting the democratic party over its embrace of a civil rights plank and holding their own convention, a rump convention, to nominate a rival presidential ticket for the 1948 election. they called themselves the dii y dixiecrats. their presidential candidate, strom thurmond, then the 45-year-old governor of south carolina. the dixiecrats wanted to keep harry truman from winning a second term. but their sabotage didn't quite work. thurman areaed four southern

states that fall, but truman still won the election. there was a lot of commentary this week about mark sanford's surprise victory over elizabeth colbert busch, that sanford won tuesday's special election by nine points, we've been told swb a credit to his savvy as a campaigner or to the public's increased willingness to look beyond personal scandal. but the reason he won and won so handedly is a lot schismer than any of that. it's nothing more than the story about how race and politics have played out in the south since that '48 dixey accurate walkout. the story is this, white southerners, in the deep south especially, almost always vote republican. it can be hard to fath thom now, was from the end of reconstruction through world war ii, white southerners voted almost universally for democrats. 1936, fdr racked up more than 98% of the vote in south carolina. 98%! in the south in those days, the republican party was at best a

rumor. but those white southern democrats were coexisting in a party that also included northern liberals, liberals that are adamant. those tension first came to a head in 1948, although after that election, a fragile peace was struck. but by the early 60s, it was utterly untenable. in 1964, lbj finally broke the southern filibuster in the senate and passed the civil rights act. his opponent in that fall's election was barry goldwater, a republican who had joined the southern filibuster. nationally, goldwater was a disaster. he was flown out from coast to coast. but in the south, especially the deep south, he was a hit! in south carolina, he took 59% of the vote. in alabama, 69%. in mississippi, 87%. yes, 87% for barry goldwater. this really was when the modern southern republican party was born. the voting rights act was passed a year later in 1965 and

reinfranchised southerners began leaving the democratic party and claiming the gop as their new home. the sorting out process took decades, but today it's basically complete. and the statistics are stark. today, republican presidential candidates routinely win three quarters of the white vote in the south. in the deep south, that's south carolina, georgia, alabama, mississippi, and louisiana, the number is even higher. mitt romney racked up 89% of the white vote in mississippi last year. much was made of president obama's struggle with white voters last fall, but really his problem was with southern whites. outside of that region, he didn't do that badly. there are a number of african-american democrats who represent deep south districts, districts that have large black populations. but had she beaten sanford, it would have made kolbert busch only one of two white democrats. its district is 75% white. romney won it by 18 points last

fall. it wasn't mark sanford elizabeth colbert busch was fighting, it was six decades of history. kansas on a collision course with the federal government, and know, this isn't 1854. that's next. ♪ [ agent smith ] i've found software that intrigues me. it appears it's an agent of good. ♪ [ agent smith ] ge software connects patients to nurses to the right machines

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and that's what they can do with you. that's how ameriprise puts more within reach. ♪ the republican-controlled state legislature in missouri passed a bill wednesday, declaring all federal gun laws null and void within the state's borders. a state declaring itself exempt from federal law is called state nullification, and supposedly that went out of fashion around the time of the civil war. but it's not just missouri. this week, statehouses in both texas and louisiana each passed similar bills, making it nearly a dozen states now where at least one chamber has voted to nullify all federal gun laws. it is kansas, however, that actually passed its gun nullification bill into law last month, putting that state on a collision course with the federal government and u.s. attorney general eric holder. the collision course is still playing out as we speak. it began before the bill was

passed, when kris kobach, themi few years ago, described it as a way to check the obama administration's power. >> any attempt by a federal agent to regulate it is a felony in the state of kansas. that is a very important constitutional pushback from our state. we are drawing a perfectly justified line in the sand, saying, under the u.s. constitution, you, the federal government, have no authority to tell us how many rounds there can be in a magazine, if that magazine never crosses a state line. >> when the bill did pass into law, attorney general holder wrote to governor sam brownback, telling him that the measure, quote, directly conflicts with federal law and is therefore unconstitutional and that federal laws will still apply in kansas. i want to get to brownback and kobach's replies. but first, i want to bring in democratic state senator from kansas, dave hailey, author of "what's the matter with kansas?" thomas frank, also a columnist

with harper's magazine. and shelia frum from kansas. this was the reply to eric holder's letter to governor sam brown beck in the last week. we can put this up right now. and he says, "the people of kansas have clearly expressed their sovereign will. it is my hope that upon further review, you will see their right to do so. i'm going to go out on a limb and say the obama justice department is not going the see the right of kansas to nullify federal gun laws. but shelia, i would love for you to address what's happening in kansas. your story, when bob dole left the senate, you were appointed to replace him and you ran in a ram primary against sam brownback, and it was sort of the moment that he kind of built his name. and also, sort of a big moment for his wing of the republican party in kansas. and that's what people don't realize. there are two wings of the republican party in kansas and that's what this is about, in a way. >> and this is the first session

that we have not had traditional republicans in the kansas senate to help monitor what's going on and to help balance what's going on. so we're very conscience of that across the state. >> what happened to bring that about? >> the past elections. certainly, the governor-led coalition ousted incredibly good senators. >> in primaries. >> in primaries. in kansas primaries, republican primaries. and the dissatisfaction that has created is large and growing. >> so you have a situation where, i think with the number, was it eight moderate republican senators last year? >> eight or nine. >> were targeted by their own party's governor in primaries and lost. and you now have this conservative majority. you have a conservative governor, a conservative majority in the senate, conservative majority in the house, and this is what -- this is what we're suddenly seeing. for the first time, conservatives have unfettered power in kansas. >> they got hold of everything. but what's really fascinating about this, and you know, the ironies, you know, there's a lot

of hilarious ironies and not so hilarious ironies. you were talking about south carolina earlier. and comparing kansas to south carolina. you know, which is where nullification comes from. of course, nullification was, you go back and look at your american history, was invented by a guy called john c. calhoun, who was vice president and andrew jackson was president. but his idea was that the states came first. the states were prior to the federal government. and therefore, they could just, you know, if they felt that something was unconstitutional, if they didn't like something, they could just say, well, we, you know, we hereby nullify that in our state. this is a doctrine from the 1820s. and it was bogus then, right? what's funny is that this was the preeminent doctrine of the slave-holding south. this is what -- that was how they rationalized what they were doing. and kansas was not just on the other side, militantly on the other side. this is a state of -- this is the country of john brown, in the statehouse in topeka,

there's a big mural soft john brown and the border war with missouri, which pre-figured the civil war. that's what kansas was. it was not the kind of place that would ever, you know, give any sort of credence to a doctrine like this. >> and we think of kansas, in modern times, dwight eisenhower, nancy kassenbaum, very moderate republican -- >> they couldn't get elected to anything there now. not even bob dole. >> so what happened? >> what's the matter with this place? >> come on now, that's a long story. you're seeing a microcosm of it right here. it's the culture wars. we can talk about this all day if we wan. >> senator hailey, you've watched this unfold. it seems to me in the last year before these primary challenges, the moderate republicans in the kansas senate had almost taeeam up with the democrats to stop the conservative agenda. you've soon this play out. where does this come from, what we're seeing right now with the gun nullification. >> we are now finding ourselves,

i guess i'm almost under assault. there are constitutional majorities in both the senate and the house for an extreme, well, conservative ultraright-wing agenda. it's almost like democrats and moderate republicans are persona non grata. we don't really have a say so. we know the veto -- the concerns that we have, especially when we look at some of the issues, and i think the conservatives kind of picked an issue on nullification on the gun rights, where they could get a little traction, because it is a purely state activity. it's the made in kansas, stamped in kansas, guns that wouldn't cross, unlike the slavery issue -- >> so they're basically trying to say, and this maybe gets to a broader conservative legal argument, but they're basically trying to say that the commerce clause doesn't apply to federal gun control rules are, if you have in this provision, that the gun was made in kansas and will not cross kansas -- it's almost like they're trying to set up a supreme court fight over the

commerce clause. >> exactly. and i think that we will be seeing probably court action. i know our attorney general has already said that he's prepared, he's asked for this budget, those funds to do that, from the general fund. we're expecting that. we're waiting to see what happens in montana with the ninth circuit and what they'll do. and that's going to be a precedent, i think, because the kansas bill is practically identical to what did happen. >> you mentioned montana, and we'll get into the story of montana. a bill signed we a democratic governor a few years ago. we'll get into that after a this. okay. this, won't take long will it? no, not at all. how many of these can we do on our budget? more than you think. didn't take very long, did it? this spring, dig in and save. that's nice. post it. already did. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. show mom why you're her favorite, with a 12" infinity color bowl, a special buy at just $14.98. there's a reason no one says "easy like monday morning."

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i was mentioning montana before we went to break. in '9, brian schweitzer, he was the governor at the time, democratic governor, and signed a bill that was passed largely by republicans in montana, that declared, basically that federal government does not have the power to enforce gun control on guns that were made in montana and kept in montana. sort of that commerce clause i was just talking about. that's been sort of percolating in the courts since then.

there's another bill that reached the current democratic governor on montana's desk recently, that would prevented any municipal or state workers from controlling federal gun control. the governor vetoed that. but these things are popping up all over the country. nearly a dozen states, where it's passed at least one chamber. and i want to give people a taste of how extreme this language is. let's look at alabama. this bill passed the state senate in alabama. all federal acts, laws, rules, regulations regarding firearms are a violation of the second amendment. the legislature shall adopt and enact any and all measures as may be necessary to prevent the enforcement of any federal acts, laws, orders, recalls or regu r regulations in violation of the united states constitution. that is sweeping, dramatic language about -- >> what's dramatic, they've just arrogated to themselves -- >> there is no supreme court. >> it's a clear violation of the

constitution, to set state laws like that. and when we look at what women and moms think about this, they hate it! they hate it. two-thirds of women and mops do not like it when we see our government broken down. when we see sort of people coming out and making smaller government. they think that government can help. and so what we're looking for here is a culture war. and it's going to have political repercussi repercussions. i think it's pennywise and pound foolish for those conservative folks to be pushing forward solutions like this. if they are seen particularly with the gun issue as being in the pocket of the nra leadership, i'll just put it on the table, then that's a problem for them in the long-term. >> well, shelia, what is the -- i guess i'm curious, we talked about it, the moderate republicans, the conservative republicans and the democrats. do you think result of the conservatives having power and doing this, is there going to be a reshuffling in kansas where maybe those moderates move over? >> things move slowly and there

are cycles, but we have a as a result of what's going on, many, many, many disenfranchised systems. i'm surprised, when someone will ask me, what's going on, they just know they're upset and they don't know why. so there's a strong need to review what's going on and to consider, how do we make a change. >> and is there -- so governor brownback will be up for re-election next year in 2014. and i've seen some polling that says his approval rating is down. it's balanced by a lot of the nationals who say it's still a republican state. should we be looking for a primary challenge to sam brownback? do you think that's going to take when the moderates go after it? >> there's a lot of discussion, do we need a third party? that won't work. is there a coalition of the more moderates of our state, the traditional republicans and the democrats who are concerned? is there a way for us to raise a voice, to help people understand there are alternatives. we don't have to do it this way, we can look at other ways.

the november election, november 2014, that will be after we've already lowered our taxes and increased the local property taxes and taken away funding for education in our state. people are concerned about that. >> it's also not a coincidence, i think, that this is happening in kansas and other states during the obama years. and i want to get into that when we come back. i did? when visa signature asked everybody what upgraded experiences really mattered... you suggested luxury car service instead of "strength training with patrick willis." come on todd! flap them chicken wings. [ grunts ] well, i travel a lot and umm... [ male announcer ] at visa signature, every upgraded experience comes from listening to our cardholders. visa signature. your idea of what a card should be. i need you. i feel so alone. but you're not alone. i knew you'd come.

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or high blood pressure before taking advair. ask your doctor if including advair could help improve your lung function. [ male announcer ] advair diskus fluticasone propionate and salmeterol inhalation powder. get your first prescription free and save on refills at advaircopd.com. hello from new york. i'm steve kornacki here with kristen with mom's rising, david hailey, thomas frank from harper's magazine and shelia frum. so we've been talking about the gun nullification push at the state level. it is now a law in kansas, setting up a showdown with the federal government. there's a similar law in montana. there are probably about a dozen other states that seem to be on a pathway, potentially, for this.

to me, it doesn't seem coincidental that this is all happening in the obama era. there's been a proliferation of this. we're talking about guns right now. there have been a number of bills introduced in legislatures across the country to nullify obama care, the affordable care act. we've seen a lot of legislation like this popping up at the state level and really at the red state level, since president obama became president, and the attitude that it sort of, i think, what's worth showing here is kris kobach, the secretary of state from kansas, who's really been pushing the gun nullification, when eric holder wrote to kansas and said, no, you can't do this, his response was, the obama administration hads repeatedly violated the united states constitution for the past 4 1/2 years. that abuse cannot continue. the state of kansas is determined to restore the constitution and to protect the right of its citizens to keep and bear arms. there's so much going on there. it really seems to come back to president obama. >> somehow, you can't win at the supreme court. you know, what are you left with? you've got to nullify? but this nullification, if you go back and read all the

original nullification documents from the civil war, it always begins -- the premise is that the the federal government is tir r tyrannical. that's how it always begins. have you ever been to kansas, steve? >> sure, i'm a big kansas football fan. when you're out there, the idea that you're living under big government tyranny is extremely commonplace. there's a billboard out by manhattan, you know what i'm talking about? and you see this -- you encounter this all the time. it's not just in kansas. this is all over the country. this is what the tea party movement is all about. you know, i want to shift gears very slightly. i was reading up on nullification, rich hoffstater wrote about john c. calhoun, he called it the marxist of common class. but ans ray written in 1948,

nullification is something that is only of interest to antiquarians now. and i was thinking about john kenneth galbraith who was writing about the same time, said the same thing about austerity. like, this is something we don't even need to think about anymore. this is a 19th century doctrine that we in the 20th century have moved beyond. and look where we are today, steve. in both these cases, we're back there. >> we should say, the heritage foundation in washington, a very conservative group. they did put out a report last year. it was called, the headline was nullification unlawful and unconstitutional. there are conservatives out there saying no. >> do you want to know why? >> you look at that kobach reply. there's just this assumption, he doesn't substantiate this at all, in his staple, but there's this assumption that everything the obama administration is doing is just violently unconstitutional and the only way to protect the constitution is basically by overriding it.

but, there's something about the obama presidency that's brought this out, though. >> the creativity, though, in this gun bill, is that it's a purely state activity. that it doesn't cross state lines, unlike interstate commerce and anything else, going back to some civil rights and even back to slavery issues. kansans are individual and strong and need their support for the issues to keep the second amendment strong. we do come from an -- and i look at some of my constituents who want to ensure that they have the right to bear arms in the obama administration or anybody else from d.c. is not going to tell them what to do. they have that fierce independence. and some of those are constituents. and we lost a lot of good middle republicans in our primaries that were highly financed by the governor brownbacks and secretary kobaches of our state. and as we approach 2014, next year, in the election, there's no guarantee that we will bring

back common sense, middle ground, that will listen to both sides. >> in kansas, how is this particular law being received? is it being received as, whoa, this is kind of nutty, or is it, no, this is just a logical extension of second amendment rights that we hold dear. >> well, so far, conceal/carry was a wig issue. former governor sebelius, now health of human and services vetoed conceal carry. and after the veto was overwritten and put in place, the sky didn't fall. i noticed in your last hour, you were talking about how murders have they been or how many homicides from gun violence? those are all illegal guns. there are a lot of people who want to see in kansas legal gun ownership upheld. they're urban and rural all across the board. so my concern is that this issue will get traction among a broad constituency. that this particular bill will, because it could lead to, of course, unintended consequences as we look at the whole question of nullification.

>> the ultimate irony, though, here is that there's a group of folks that are purportedly supporting the constitution by violating the constitution. >> this is how we save the constitution. >> there's an increased irony here, which this is a group of people who come out for saving tax dollars, for making our government work, and this is a giant waste of tax dollars. right now in the united states of america, one in four children are facing food scarcity. we have big problems to deal with. we have issues that we need our legislative bodies to address that are real, that are constitutional. and that will actually help our businesses and our families. and because of this type of legislation, it's distracting from the real issues. we need people to be able to drive on safe roads. we need our government to make our infrastructure work. and when we're mucking around with unconstitutional legislation, it's holding us all back. and i think that's the ultimate irony, because this particular group of political folks, you know, go out on the soap box and

say that they're for what they're against, you know. >> it's even worse than that. well, it's more ironic than that, let me put it that way. and why do i say that? listen, if kansas gets its way, which they won't, this is all strictly for show, and the reason we know it's for show is if they got their way, every gun manufacturer in america would be out of business tomorrow. why do i say that? how could that be? how could nullification lead to that? do you remember -- we always think, the federal government is so tyrannical, in 2005, the congress passed a law to strike down state, what were they, liability suits, liability suits. you had them all over in america. and in some states, they were actually going forward. these things would have put gun manufacturers out of business. the u.s. congress and president george w. bush stepped in and slapped down liability lawsuits and took that power away. that's a bizarre imposition on

state authority. you know, that's, you know, very questionable, very iffy constitutional. if you can nullify federal gun laws, you can nullify that. in fact, you should. >> and just did in kansas -- in which case those lawsuits can go ahead. in which case, gun manufacturers all over the country will be out of business in no time at all. >> and the intention fall lally thing within this legislation is the fact that it's all within state lines. and therefore the federal government can't regulate. uh be it's been established by the supreme court and in cases before there is an interest for the federal government or there can be an interest for the federal government in one state if it has complications that go beyond that state. i can't think of in the current culture, anything more than gun violence that potentially would go -- >> one is the drug law. lacking at the federal drug laws, they're having some of the challenges to the federal laws, like interstate commerce, if, in fact, marijuana, for example, colorado, our adjoining state

does have marijuana, loose marijuana laws, but in kansas, still legal. that's been one. issues. we've studied that. especially if someone has a script from colorado and comes into kansas. if a drug crosses, has come into kansas from missouri, that's a state law. a felon cannot be in possession of a gun, even if it has made in kansas on it and others, of course, commission of a crime and what have you. and some of those are still in play in this current law. but the question is the ownership and of course they're concerned about bill that failed in congress and whether or not that would be revived in terms of how we would find those who would be able to have them in the first place. >> shelia, i want to ask you, when you look at the revolution of the party in your state and where it is right now, the republican party, what is your sense of, do you have optimism looking at the future, that the

party will go back to having a vibrant moderate wing, or have we passed the point of no return? >> no, we will. the voices will continue to be heard. you asked how this nullification is being considered by our people in kansas. if you'd say nullification in any meeting in kansas today, 1% of the people would know what you're talking about. it's not that big a deal. now, maybe it will become a bigger deal. what's the concern is, it's going to cost a lot of money to prosecute and respond to this at the supreme court. that's causing people trouble. our legislature hasn't ferned this term. they haven't decided what they'll do with the sales tax, they haven't decided how they'll fund education. they haven't been able to come to a conclusion yet. give them time, but the leadership says they're going to be finished very, very soon. i'll look to the senator to tell us what the schedule is going to be. but i think our citizens are much more concerned about the bottom line reality of where we're going with important

issues. now, i know in kansas we want to be able to have our guns. we want to be able to have the assurance that they're available and in a legal way. but i don't think that the routine kansas citizens are paying any attention to nullification. they're not talking about it. >> yeah, it is. pinpoint does seem that there is an aspect here that feels like there's sort of a national conservative movement that's playing out in states where conservatives are in position to put this stuff through to legislature. it's an amazing trend to me, a trend that's sort of -- it's been revived and unique to the obama era. i'll see if it extends past the obama era. that's a longer term question. i want to thank kristen, david hailey from kansas, thomas frank from "harper's" magazine, and sheila frum. marriage equality supporters are on their way to another state and this time it's thanks to their opponents. that's next. with more moisturizers than seven bottles of the leading body wash.

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two days from now, the state of minnesota is widely expected to make history and become the 12th state in the union to legalize gay marriage. the house passed a bill just three days ago and the senate is expected to do the same tomorrow. once that happens, governor mark dayton has already vowed to sign the bill into law, likely on tuesday. the developments in minnesota are just the latest in a broad and rapid national transformation on the issue of gay marriage. but there's an irony to this particular milestone in minnesota, one that was set in motion two years ago. back in may of 2011, republicans controlled the state legislature there and voted to put a constitutional amendment, banning gay marriage, on the ballot for the november 2012 elections. but in that year and a half, the political winds shifted dramatically and the blowback for republicans was severe. so on election night 2012, the anti-gay marriage amendment was defeated, with only 47% of

minnesotas supporting it. and republicans paid an even larger political price. in that same election, they lost control of both houses of the state legislature to democrats. almost immediately, marriage equality advocates began lining up support. in february, state representative karen clark officially introduced the marriage equality bill, pointing directly to the amendment's defeat as a factor. >> we had a trial run with the constitutional amendment and the people of minnesota spoke loudly and clearly, and i think my conversation with legislators indicate that many of them are paying attention to that vote. >> on thursday, clark and other marriage equality supporters celebrated in the state capital, when the minnesota house voted we a margin of 75 to 59 to legalize gay marriage. >> i'm so grateful, and you know, the people who are out there really made this possible. all the conversations that people have had with their families and friends. >> i want to bring in aisha moodie-mills, adviser to the lbgt policy at the center for american progress, pat brady, democratic state senator kelvin

atkinson of nevada, who came out last month on the floor of the state senate, and rachael staszenberger. and if anybody recognizes that last name, the granddaughter of a luminary, harold staszen. rachael, you've been covering this, it is amazing, it's a two-area story that started in may of 2011 with republicans in the state legislature there, kind of looking at what the republican national playbook was last decade, which was put these anti-gay marriage things on the ballot, watch the conservatives come out, and win and get elected with them. they put it on the ballot in november of 2012 and something very different happened. >> i would say it's been a ten-year story. we've been seeing constitutional amendment proposals in minnesota. michele bachmann was very primary in some of those early on. and finally the republicans took over the house and the senate and they passed this amendment to the ballot. and after a really long and intense campaign, spending

millions of dollars with the ante side having far more money than people trying to pass this, minnesotans said, you know what, we don't want it, and the first state to say, we don't want this constitutional amendment. >> and there was collateral damage. you had the legislature that swung republican in 2010 swung back to the democrats in twelve, which gave them the power to put this into law. >> absolutely. and one of the things that we saw, in other states, where these were on the ballot, republicans came out in droves. and in minnesota, this sort of dominated the conversation, unlike previous years, we were not a presidential battleground, we had a u.s. senate race that really the republicans weren't taking hold. so the conversation in minnesota around the election, the money, the energy, was almost all on the defeating the amendment side, which brought a lot of other democrats out. >> there was an ad, i want to play this ad, you talk about that money, but here was an ad for the amendment. these are supporters of banning

gay marriage in minnesota. and we talk about how the sort of political winds your shifting in the 18 months from when they proposed it to the election. this is one of the messages they went with. this is an ad where they sort of acknowledged the basic popularity of standing up for gay rights and still tried to couch it into an anti-gay marriage message. and this is what they put on the air. >> in my life, i've learned to be open and kind to all people. >> everybody knows somebody who's gay. >> gay or straight, we're all sbi entitled to love and respect. >> but we can support gays and lesbians without changing marriage. >> marriage is still about children having a mom and a dad. >> i'm voting yes on the marriage amendment. >> yes to protect marriage. >> on amendment one, we're all voting yes. >> well, the rest of the state didn't see it that way, but it's interesting to me that there's sort of a bow there to, you know, the political winds have shifted. that, you know, the gay marriage

opponents recognize that, you know, simply running just on sort of demonizing gay people wasn't going to work. >> well, exactly. because there's absolutely nothing that comes out in that commercial, and there's no other example that they can use to show how marriage, how everyone being able to be marriage, to get married, somehow denigrates the institution of marriage. that's an argument that they've been trying to run on. which is completely false. my marriage to my wife in no way affects my neighbor's marriage to their partner. and that's the argument that they've been trying to make that just doesn't resonate, because it's ridiculous. >> i think it's funny, because one of the lines that i used on the floor, which was not preempted, was that if this interferes with your marriage, that your marriage was in trouble in the first place. and what i find, and i look at -- i've seen the video that you've shown before and what i always find offensive is that what the one lady said about children and marriage, and being between a dad and a mom. and i just find that offensive. you know, i have a 17-year-old

daughter whose mom is very involved and has a father, myself, who is very involved. so she still has her mom and her dad. so that's a blown out argument that's kind of old. >> plus, the argument that she made marriage is only to have kids, versus it's a commitment to consenting adults and to a loving relationship and to commit to one another. there are a lot of arguments about, they're not going to have kids, they can't get married. that makes no sense at all. >> but i think to some extent, the people who are against the marriage amendment, they say, look, in minnesota, we're not ready for this. we just had this very divisive fight over this amendment and we're not ready to legalize. a few in minnesota say, yes, now is time, but there's still a lot of discomfort. you all have experienced that personally. so what the people who don't want this to pass say is it's just not the time yet. >> maybe in minnesota, maybe in illinois, but i wonder, have the experiences of states that have had gay marriage -- it's been

more than ten years, or it's been ten years, nine, whatever, it's close to ten years in massachusetts, i can't count, i don't know. but basically a decade in massachusetts and i think everybody will agree, massachusetts is still massachusetts. >> the sky didn't fall. and i think that's the key lesson here. the sky didn't fall. and every single state, where we've had marriage, the argument was, oh, my god, all marriages are going to fall apart, kids are going to be in these, like, unsafe environments. they're going to hear these messages that we don't want them to hear. and the reality is, none of it has happened. in fact, marriage as an institution has actually safeguarded more families. it's actually created stronger family units economically, emotionally, and otherwise. >> and the business community wise. in illinois, you don't have, that serves as a detriment to people bringing business to illinois. that's an argument that has nothing to do with some of the other more emotional r aal argu. >> pat, the business community, and that's sort of a part of this too. rachael mentions in minnesota, not many republicans were on board. we're seeing this in other

states. and pat, you have a very interesting and personal experience with this in illinois, very recently. and i want to get into that after this. t of weight, c-max has a nice little trait, you see, c-max helps you load your freight, with its foot-activated lift gate. but that's not all you'll see, cause c-max also beats prius v, with better mpg. say hi to the 47 combined mpg c-max hybrid.

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siemens. answers. so, pat, you announced this week you were stepping down as the chairman of the illinois republican party and it's a fascinating story, just reading this. you support marriage equality. you're not the only republican in illinois with that position. >> republican state senator kirk came out for it as well. >> this was sort of the, this caused a lot of friction within the party, and it kind of led to this unfortunate moment for you. >> i think i did it because i truly believe that this is the conservative position, that we shouldn't be in the business of marriage and if two adults want to enter a loving, committed relationship, they should be allowed to do that. to me, that's entirely consistent with conservative republican principles. a very small group of the central committee, which regulates the state party, a coup people thought that wasn't such a good idea and basically forced me out. but it's up in illinois this week, i think it's going to pass, and i think most republicans and a lot of people

didn't want to get on the record, like senator kirk did, do support it and recognize, you know, a true conservative position is support equality. >> it's passed the house, but not the senate. >> and the governor said -- i keep getting these things confused. the governor said he'll sign it. illinois, we could be adding to that list of states. >> and it's on the speaker's desk. we hope we have the votes. >> but the question i have about, as this question sort of goes nationally, you know, a lot of states that aren't pure blue states, where if it's going to become a law, it has to have republican sport. and if we look at minnesota, for instance, this week, this is the breakdown by party of the vote in minnesota on gay marriage, and you can see, this was a one-party vote. democrats were basically all for and it republicans were basically all against it. only a handful of crossover votes. in the senate, there might be a little more support, but this is basically a democratic initiative. >> but that hand full of

republican votes is very hard fought and hard won. as you know, for some republicans saying any support for same-sex marriage is political suicide. in minnesota, we see that there were four votes for it, by thoughtful republicans. there were two democratic votes against it in the house. we actually have a republican co-author in the minnesota senate from a conservative district, who says, in part, this is sort of a libertarian belief. you know, let's let this happen, it's about freedom. so i think that that debate is still ongoing. and we saw it even in minnesota, something that would have been unimaginable in some of the time that i was covering the state is that republicans came out with a civil joins bill earlier this year. now, that was rejected -- >> this was basically to forestall -- we'll do civil unions instead of gay marriage. >> but a couple of years ago, that would have been unimaginable for -- and in fact, democrats were offering civil unions as sort of an alternative to a constitutional amendment at one point. so we see how much things have changed.

>> but as partisan as it is, it's also generational. so even laooking at the republican party, you have 64% of millennials who are republicans agree with marriage equality and that everybody should have the freedom to marry in our country. i think what we're also going to see is the tipping point over time, the generation that starts to retire, we'll see the younger generation bubble up. let's get back to our core values and thinking about the business argument, et cetera, and that we're going to see more of an attitude of social change for lbgt people in general within the party. >> the donor community, the young republicans, and senator kirk, those are the groups within others in the leadership that got behind me on this. that's the future. >> the example that sort of sticks out in my mind, when i think of republicans having an instinct to vote for this, or saying, well, i want to keep my seat, i don't want to lose an election, they're worried about the primary election. not just the general election. i think the example of what happened here in new york state, which passed gay marriage, i

think it was, two years ago now, three years ago now. and there were four republicans in the state senate that went along. and the business community rallied behind them. they said, we want this too. and two lost their primaries. there was a consequence for the very few republicans in new york state who came out and said, i'm for this. they did pay a price for it. >> those were weak candidates, though. that's a good example, but there's a lot more to that than just the gay marriage vote. i haven't seen it yet where anybody's really paying a price. a lot of these peep are paper tigers. >> so what's the culture like -- so we think of illinois, you know, mark kirk, a moderate republican senator and big jen thompson, moderate republican -- you have a moderate republican tradition. but is there a growing -- the movement that pushed you out, are conservatives a lot more powerful than they were a decade ago? >> let's go back even further. the land of lincoln an an abolitionist party. we ran on the principles, equality of application of law

for everybody. i think what mark kirk has done is taken the party back to its roots. we believe in equality under the law. and if we stay with that, we do pretty well. >> what about minnesota, rachael? this is when people look at blue state. you had mondale in '84, a little easier that year. but people look at it as a blue state from the outside, but this is a state that produced michele bachmann, ron grams, there is a very conservative christian element to the republican party in minnesota that maybe keeps republicans from voting with the overstate preference. >> i think that's true and i think it's way too simplistic to look at us as just a blue state. the current democratic governor is the first in basically a generation from the democratic party. so it's not pure blue. the other thing to look at, particularly as you're looking at republicans, if you think about the members of the house who voted for same-sex marriage, two of those republicans come from kind of swing districts. their districts on the

constitutional amendment said no with, by fairly wide margins. so it's not just pure republican or conservatives. and as you mentioned, it's a question of the endorsements, it's a question of the may remember, the general electorate may be quite different. >> we have a map i want to show. it's going to take a minute to explain, but i think it shows something interesting about the future of gay marriage in this country. we'll do that when we come back. r with smelly trash, left it under the hot desert sun, attached a febreze car vent clip, and let in real people. it smells good. like clean laundry. like driving through beautiful tropical... palm trees with like fruit hanging. i wish my car smelled like this. [ both laugh ] i could sit in this all day. [ laughs ] proof. febreze car vent clips eliminate even the toughest odors. another way febreze helps you breathe happy. eliminate even the toughest odors. what that's great. it won't take long, will it? nah. okay. this, won't take long will it?

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the states that have that gold stripe, they have constitutional amendments that have outlawed gay marriage, but they also have civil unions. so you have a plausible pathway in the foreseeable tufuture to getting to gay marriage in those states. the red states where it's banned by constitutional amendment or banned by institute. and new mexico is great, because nothing at all has happened there. when you put that all together, i think if you put those striped states and turned them blue, the green states and turned them blue, you basically have the red state/blue state map we see every presidential election. you have the red state/blue state divide. i wonder if we talk about all the progress in gay marriage, but are we going to hit a stalling point, if you're in a blue state, you have gay marriage. if you have mississippi and arkansas, tough luck. is that what we're on course for at least for the foreseeable future? >> i think that that map, just like the presidential map, i

think it will revolve as well. and even nevada, where wie approved domestic partners a session ago. and now just this year is looking at -- well, we voted in the senate with the current constitutional amendment to legalize or at least send it to the voters, so they can weigh in on the issue of gay marriage in our state. and i think you'll see that and i think you'll see a map that is evolving as some others said, about the issues and all of the issues become a lot more moderate issues and people align people to do and make decisions they want. >> if it doesn't evolve nationally, electorally for republicans, we'll have a problem. because the growing group is the young people. and if we're going to keep it like that, we'll have a tough, tough time winning nationally. >> and we have to underscore the rapidseeing,

though. if minnesota passes the freedom no marry tomorrow, that will be the third state within as many weeks. we're seeing really rapid progress -- >> six in the last year. >> in the last year. and in june, we'll get some kind of ruling on california. california, those stripes may go away and it might turn back to being blue. it's really interesting the progress we're making but how quickly things are shifting and how quickly things are shifting for conservatives too. for the supreme court, the supreme court cases, you had like over 130 conservatives sign on to briefs, saying lake, we support the freedom to marry. you should do right thing and strike down the defense of marriage act. so we're seeing a lot of momentum. and i think that's a fantastic thing for us. >> and very liberal dick cheney was on -- >> yeah, exactly. >> i've heard some republicans -- i mean, there's the dick cheney example, and he has the family reason, but a lot of the republicans who have spoken up for this, mark kirk

comes from a blue state. there was a senate republican primary in massachusetts where gay marriage has been on the books for decade now. and even the most conservative candidate said, yeah, i want to repeal the defense of marriage act. i see it happening in the blue states, but when are we going to have the -- it seems like a central ingredient. the evangelical christian from mississippi or kansas or alabama saying, we need this two. that's the thing i have a harder time seei ing right now. >> well, we can't answer for those groups obviously sitting here, so they'll have to come on your show and explain when their evolution is going to take place. but i think what we're saying is we're seeing conservatives and conservatives in our own state p. i had a conservative woman in the house come to me in the senate after our vote and said, i'm proud of you and i wanted you to know that i'm going to support the measure when it comes over to the house. and the assembly heard the measure this past week, and she didn't tell anybody why she was

voting for it initial lily, but when she was testifying why, she said her mom is gay and her mom has a partner, and she's in favor of it because her mom should be able to marry the woman she's been in love with for the past how many years. so it shocked the house again, and i guess nevada can't get anymore shocking news. >> you actually hit the nail on the head in a previous segment, when you talked about what was happening in south carolina, and you drew kind of the race analogy in saying, you know what, these conservative states have a real big issue that certainly is not about gay right. it's not about marriage equality. it way proceeds that. they have issues around race and the religious right kind of coopting their values that is a whole other political conundrum that we need to be vigilant dealing with. and the gay community is in lockstep and in partnership with all our other progressive allies who are working in those states, to make sure we are trying to move the ball forward in terms of the political process in

general, as opposed to regressing like they're doing around voting rights and other things. we're working and paying attention and supporting all of those fights, because all of them ultimately matter to us as well. >> pat, i want to hear it, after this. this is for real this time. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers.

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pat, i rudely cut you off. you were going to say? >> not at all. when she was laying out the bigger, broader discrimination piece in the work that she does, but the brilliance here of the pro-marriage equality people is they didn't put it as a discrimination issue, they put it as a commitment and a love issue and an economic issue. and that's where you get people like me more than just calling it discrimination, which it likely is the last form of condoned discrimination. but the point is they made the argument wisely on other grounds and i think that's why you're seeing so much momentum so quickly. >> but i also think you need to look at when we talk about the marriage and marriage being the bond of family and all these sorts of things, you look at a

state like mine, we were talking about business earlier, and that business, as far as marriage, because we marry the most folks of anybody, but it's heterosexual couples. but on the other end of the spectrum, we're also very high in divorce. and that's not gay folks that are getting divorce d. so you really have to look at it. from a business sense, it makes sense in our state. you see business communities running polls they weren't running before. and all of those polls are suggesting that our state and other states are ready to embrace this type of change. >> i can't tell you how many people in massachusetts who support gay marriage like to point out the low divorce rate in massachusetts has not ruined family life. but we set this up at the beginning of discussion, just that minnesota, to bring it back to minnesota. you know, i felt to me like what the republicans in minnesota were trying to do was just sort of the twelve version of what

karl rove and the republicans di. the idea that we're going to put this on the ballot and this is going to be the magic solution. i wonder, have we at least gotten to the point where we got the last of the sort of proactive tactics. where they're permanently on the defensive now. they may still have a lot of redoubts on the map, but they're permanently on the defensive on this issue. >> if you looked at your map and all that red, they already answered those questions in so many states. in the majority of states, there are constitutional amendments that would ban same-sex marriage. so for some of these states, the campaign is over, but it's over not on the same-sex marriage -- >> but in minnesota, so if dayton -- governor day tton sig this thing this week, does this end? or will it be like with health care, they're still trying to repeal obama care. >> i don't think it ends the conversation. i'm not sure there are in republicans in a position to change it anytime soon.

you know, the minnesota house is up next year, but the minnesota senate is not. so it would take them another presidential year to try again. and frankly, when what we've seen in the polls on all of this, who knows where the polling will be. who knows where people will be in 2014, in 2016, and in 2020? >> and we don't know that, but we do know the polling is much different than it was in 2002, 2003. look at that state like mine, and it's funny, in our state, we were defining the definition of marriage and that meant marriage between a man and a woman. but if you look at those and where our state has evolved from since then. in 2002, it was a political issue. it was for karl rove and for the rest of them to get all of these republicans out of their houses and to the polls and it worked. >> and look at just the last year. this week is the one-year anniversary of president obama coming out in support of marriage equality, right? when before that, we had a

little bit of a majority. like barely a majority of the people in the country supported marriage equality. now we have a significant majority, and that's just in the last year. and we've won four states plus two plus hopefully another one. but we're seeing so much change happen in a short amount of time in terms of the poll numbers that i don't think that those type of attacks will even be sustainable. >> there'll be a really bad development for conservatives and republicans and if someone's leading the charge on this. you know, public safety issues. those are our bread and butter issues. if someone went into that kind of fight, it would be bad for the party. >> so many times you look at republican office holders. a lot of them, there are plenty of true believer republicans. i wonder if a lot of republican office holders secretly wish if somebody could take this issue off the table. it wouldn't be somebody they had to worry about in the primaries. there is that deeply, deeply

conservative base. and until that comes around on gay marriage, you know the red state/blue state map might be something that's with us. what should we know for the "newsweek" ahead? my answers, after. whwhat a nightht, huh? but, u um, can thehe test drivie be over nonow? head b back to the d dealership?p? [ mamale announcncer ] it's praractically y yours. but we stitill need yourur signaturere. volklkswagen sigign then dririe is back. anand it's nevever been eaeasir to get a a passat. that's's the powerer of german n engineerining. get $0$0 down, $0 0 due at sig, $0 depososit, anand $0 firstst month's p pt on any n new volkswawagen. vivisit vwdealaler.com tododay. a confident retirement. those dreams have taken a beating lately. but no way we're going to let them die. ♪ ameriprise advisors can help keep your dreams alive like they helped millions of others. by listening. planning. working one on one. that's what ameriprise financial does.

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. so what should you node? the 19-year-old seamstress buried alive for over two weeks is recovering in a hospital and in generally good condition, according to her doctors. while she survived, the death toll from what is not the worst garment industry disaster in history passed 1100 yesterday. one official said, quote, we will not leave the operation until the last dead body and living person is found. this week, the irs inspector general's office is expect to do release its record while they

singed out groups with the tea party or patriot in the title. fox news and the right-wing media are jumping on the i.r.s. for this, you should know they are totally right in doing so. the scandal is real, but as ezra klein points out the far more damages scandal is how little the i.r.s. -- out of partisan politics. finally you should know the concentration of carbon dioxide has reached the highest level in human history, the latest data was report odd friday. while thinks a largely symbolic milestone, it's truly unprecedented the they are manmade, more storms, more wildfire, more druce, rising sea levels that threaten our coastal communities. despite all of this on thursday, they. by not showing up to vote.

republicans said mccarthy hadn't been transparent enough, this coming from a group that chose to be invisible. you should know the fight against climate change is not over, no matter how many republicans stand in the way. let's start with aisha. >> well, you should know next week it's likely the senate will vote on amends to the immigration bill that would equalize the u.n. i have been process. a lot of people thing adding that amendment would derail the bill, but you should know, that, one, it shouldn't. beyond those couples, there are over 260,000 lgbt undocumented immigrants that need that reform bill. this is an issue beyond that amendment, and we need to pass it. >> pat? >> you should already know it's

mother's day. to my mother mary jane and my lovely wife julie, but in the great state of illinois, the marriage equality amendment is sitting on the speaker of the house's desk, could be called for a vote this week. so illinois returns to its greatness in representing the land of lincoln as it shall. >> and you should know my rep friend to my right with the mother's day. >> mine too. we will get -- which i city consider a historic vote. with the momentum that aisha was talking about. >> on monday the minute minute senate will be taking up the same-sex marriage big and what

we saw in the house was a very civil debate. if you want to see good people calmly explaining their differences, some tears, some hugs, you might tune into that. if that's not enough, turn over to the minnesota house, where they'll actually likely be debating a measure to saying you could prohibit gale people from serving on injuries, so you'll see that measure coming forward and well. and then taxes and spending. >> i didn't know you can't prohibt them. that's a whole other segment. my thanks to aisha, pat brady, kelvin atkinson and rachel stallsenberger. thanks for getting up action and thank you for joining us. wee be back next weekend. summing up melissa harris-perry. join melissa as she meets the

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