calling what happened a coverup and congressman darrell issa wants testimony from the two men in charge of an independent review of what happened, former ambassador too many as pickering and admiral mike mullen. >> ultimately if that got it right, then we can put this to a rest. we believe it was insufficient. we believe it is likely they did not interview all the people. we have a witness who says i want to be interviewed and i wasn't. >> this morning ambassador pickering said he will testify. >> i am willing, as i have said continually, to go to that committee. i had regrets about going there at first when it looked like this was an entire political circus. i have now made it clear that i am prepared as all the other witnesses have to appear before that committee. >> i want to bring in alexander

burns. and ruth. do you think there is a strong argument that the accountability review board should have questioned, for example, hillary clinton? >> well, i don't know why if you're doing an accountability review board you are wouldn't want to make sure that you're covering all your bases and i don't really understand the argument about we had a discussion with her versus we interviewed her. you know that something like this is supposed to exist for the purpose of making sure that everybody is satisfied that, all the ts were crossed and is dotted and that we know who was involved. this one was so obviously politically frustrate from the very get-go. i don't know why you wouldn't want to be more inclusive in terms of who you interviewed, not just secretary clinton, but all of her aides who were involved. i'm just so frustrated with this because it seems like another one of these self-inflicted wounds on the part of the administration because they're acting look they have something to cover up and it's not clear to me what it is they were

trying to cover up. >> i think we heard from ambassador pickering and suggesting he didn't want to be a part of what he considered to be something so political and that's been a line that we've heard dick durbin, who has said this is all political. let me play that for you. >> unfortunately this has been caught up in the 2016 presidential campaign, this effort to go after hillary clinton. the reason she wasn't interviewed was she didn't have any direct line responsibility for the decisions that were made. >> so that is key to this whole thing, isn't, it alex, this perception on the part of some people that this is political and maybe had something to do with not interviewing hillary clinton? >> well, sure, chris. i was in iowa with rand paul over the weekend and he was making great hay out of benghazi issue saying it should bar hillary clinton from ever being in an important decision making role ever again. the reality is as long as republicans control the house of representatives, democrats can complain has much as they want about this being a political

investigation. republicans still have the authority to investigate it. i do think the hearings last week you did see some attraction around benghazi for republicans around an issue that the air had gone of over the last couple of months opinion and democrats need to ask themselves are they going to address this head on or comprehensively address the questions republicans are asking or are they going to give the opposition party something to pick at. >> ruth, we know the talking points got changed. andrea mitchell has tracked this. i think they got changed 12 times. susan rice went on the sunday show, called it a spontaneous demonstration, not a terror attack. what is the question? is it who had the final signoff, who made these changes, why were these changes made? >> i think the real bigger question is why has the accountability found was there grossly inadequate security in libya and why were those

warnings so ignored and not -- and the security not paid attention to. let's remember, no one's been charged in these deaths or held accountable or brought to justice. but on the talking points, i think that the big question is two-fold. first of all, it seems fairly obvious if you look at the talking points that what was going on is the state department trying to protect itself from having the blame shifted from the cia or the cia making itself look good at the expense of the state department. and then you have the second layer of why in the world were the white house and jay carney so insistent on arguing that the white house had -- and the state department had their hands completely off these talking points and only changed one word when it's entirely clear from what we now know that the state department in particular was very insistent on having these talking points watered down.

>> hold on, both of you. i'm going to bring in congressman adam schiff. let me play what jay carney had to say. >> the only edits made at the white house were stylistic and not substantive. they changed the building from consulate to diplomatic facility. >> but we know the talking points were further watered down. so with someone either at the state department or white house trying to cover something up? >> i think the most significant err error in the talking points, and this has been lost in this discussion, the argument that this began as a spontaneous poe test. that stayed in the talking points from the very beginning to the end and that was the most fundamental error in these talking points.

that was in the talking point because the intelligence community got that wrong. they were dead wrong on that and i think they should be held accountable for that. there's no evidence there was any malicious purpose in getting that wrong. they simply had different strands of intelligence and their conclusion was in sum that they thought it began as a protest. the other changes were significant but i think like ruth pointed out, this was largely between the state department and cia each trying to make each other look better or less worse. but i don't see any great evidence of a coverup here and the most significant mistake again, was the responsibspontan protest issue and they just had it wrong. >> but in the appearance of full disclosure, do you think it was a mistake not to interview hillary clinton? >> i think they determined the line of authority stopped at her and ultimately she did accept responsibility and she went and

testified before the committee. it's hard for me to understand what the congressional committee that already had the chance to hear from her and question her about anything in the accountability review report or anything about her interactions, why they feel that they did an inadequate job, why the committee couldn't get information they thought the arb should have gotten. we heard from the secretary. she's very popular, she may run for president and there's a political interest in trying to tarnish her, which the gop seems to be making the most of. >> what about the many conversations, the communication given that they wanted more security? we know this was a highly volatile area, a dangerous posting. what is congress going to do to address that issue? >> that's a great question. that's the heart what we should be focusing on.

there were serious mistakes in protecting those facilities. the a.r.b. made 29 recomme recommendations about what should be done. the state department says they are doing it but we should be following up that they are doing it. and i would add this, i would love to see a far bigger focus on tracking down, hunting down these people responsible and to listen to the congressional committees on this, you would think that there was no interest in bringing those responsible to justice because there's so little discussion and oversight of that investigation. and those two things, the hunt for the killers and the review of, you know, what went wrong in terms of our security and what needs to change, that really ought to be where we place our focus instead of on this partisan exercise that we continue seeing. >> something else the administration is going to have to deal with and the president may have to answer questions, the irs admitting it targeted

tea party groups for additional scrutiny. >> i don't care if you're a conservative, a liberal, democrat or republican, this should send a chill up your spine. >> it is absolutely chilling that the irs was singling out conservative groups for extra review. and i think that it very disappointing that the president hasn't personally condemned this and spoken out. >> it clear that democrats and the president have had less to say and less criticism this much than the republicans, but do the republicans have a point? >> they absolutely have a point. if the irs was targeting conservative groups for selective enforcement, that ought to be concerning to all democrats and republicans alike. >> do heads need to roll? there will be congressional hearings for sure. >> if the irs was selectively

enforcing the law, absolutely heads need to roll. i wish there was more gop interest during the bush administration, where they audited a church in my district. i'm glad now that the gop has found interest in this issue and it ought to be a bipartisan concern. the irs absolutely should not be picking winners and losers or picking political ideology. it ought to neutrally enforce regulations. >> if it happened when you made a complaint that a church in your district is being targeted and it's happening now, is this a problem in the irs that's been going on for a while, this targeting? >> it may very well be. you know, the one thing i would love to see is a broader investigation of the irs to see not only whether it's been going on during the current administration but whether it was going on during the prior

administration, too. that would point to a systemic problem within the irs that transcends administrations and it's very possible that's exactly the case. >> congressman adam schiff, it's always good to have you on the program. we appreciate it. >> let me bring ruth and alex back in. between what's going on between the irs and benghazi, let's me play what this -- >> this is what you drift toward. >> you heard what congressman adam schiff had to say, he thinks there needs to be a broader look that the. is this a big misstep by this administration? >> it's definitely a misstep by a part of the executive branch. what remains to be seen and what will determine how politically salient this is is whether americans feel accountability

for this stretches up to the president. if the president doesn't apologize, that gives the president an opening to keep on plugging away at the issue by demanding he do exactly that. on the other hand, if he apologizes, it does settle the question of whether he is responsible and accountable for this in a way that may not be helpful for democrats. >> i was just handed a statement that said the president believes the american people expect and deserve to have the very best public servants with the highest level of integrity working in government agencies based on their behalf. he is concerned the conduct of a small number of internal revenue service employees may have fallen short of that standard. the matter is currently under review by the inspector general. if he finds rules broken or they did not meet the standards, the president expects swift and appropriate steps will be taken to address any misconduct. that is the end of the statement.

your reaction, ruth? >> i sort of didn't hear the word "sorry" in there. i think that's not going to go far enough. there's a couple things going on here. the administration, irs was blaming career employees in its cincinnati office and they may be the ones that fall. but when you're dealing with political issues and politically sensitive issues and the worst thing the irs can do is target political opponents of the administration and look like it is, you need adult supervision and that is what was looking here. number two, there's a particular problem at the very top of the irs, which is that the irs commissioner gave information to congress that appears to have been wrong, insisting that there was no targeting and no fa malfeasance on the part of the folks lower down at a time when he should have known there was a problem. i think heads are going to need to roll here. i think we're going to see the

administration in a few weeks going further. i think the thing that's most frustrating for folks like me who have written a lot about money and politics is not just this conduct is outrage us but if anything the irs and this unit has not done enough to make sure that these groups deserve their tax exempt status. because here's what we don't know when they get tax exempt status, where the money is coming from and where the money is spent because they're a black hole in politics and that needs to be address as well. >> ruth marcus, alex burns, a lot going on today. thanks to both of you. >> about an hour from now the president could hold a grilling on benghazi and the irs. you can see the prime minister and the president. come here, boy.

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o.j. simpson will be in a los angeles courtroom in just over an hour to begin his fight for freedom. convicted on robbery and kidnapping charges in 2008 after he and a group of friends carrying guns busted in a hotel to retrieve memorabilia he says was stolen from him. he's serving 9 to 33 years in jail. simpson says his lawyer in that case had a conflict of interest and gave him bad advice. joining me now vice chairman of reputation.com, howard bragman, who has worked with o.j. it's good to see you. >> good morning. >> the supporters of o.j., and they may be few at this point -- >> i was going to say, who's that? >> -- will suggest to you he is

being tunirly because of the perception he did indeed murder his wife, even though he obviously was acquitted at a criminal trial. tell me what you make of this new attempt to gain his freedom. >> i do what's called litigation support and p.r. with the understanding that somebody who is on trial has to deal in the court of law and they have to deal in the court of public opinion. and in the murder trial of nicole simpson, he won in the court of law ostensibly but he lost in the court of public opinion and the vast majority of people think he murdered his wife. a lot of people think this is pay back, this technical crime. and i will say up to 33 years for this sounds like a pretty price to pay for this particular crime. so they may be right. >> are you suggesting, are you one of the people who would be suggesting it's very difficult for somebody like him to get a fair trial? >> i think it probably is in a lot of ways.

you know, we all learned in college about cognitive dissidence, that's what happened and he paid a very steep price. if i were his new attorneys, i would look at sentencing guidelines, which is not what they're looking at. very rarely from what i've looked at, you very rarely get a case thrown out for bad representation. he chose his lawyer, his lawyer didn't fall asleep during the trial, he was articulate, he was competent. it's a tough road for him. >> is he someone who always wants to get on the stand, he thinks he can charm people. there was a long period in his life where he could charm almost anyone, whether it was in person or on camera that he would love to get on the stand and tell his story and be the focus of attention. >> we say is there anybody who can't be redeemed? the two people i always mention

are o.j. simpson and bernie madoff. maybe if o.j. sat down and said i did it, i'm sorry. but even in this trial he was arrogant. his attitude is not one that evoked sympathy from the public or the court system. unless we see a very different o.j. -- we don't need arrogant o.j. >> oprah has said she wants him to come on her show and admit he did it. what would be in it for him to do that? >> nothing. you know, i think he feels like he quote, unquote, got away with it or justice was served. you know, he's the only one that knows that particular truth. i suspect. but i don't think that's going to happen. i really don't. you know, but i think that's, you know, oprah will -- i would never count oprah out. >> no. and he apparently from reports has charmed a lot of his fellow

prisoners. he's a coach and other things in prison. we shall see. it will be interesting to see. thank you so much, howard. great to have you in. >> new orleans police are vowing to find the gunman who opened fire at a mother's day parade. 19 people were hurt, two were children. investigators are looking at surveillance video to try to track down the gunman. this is the latest in a series, including one on martin luther king day. >> it's important to change the culture of death and it going to take an all-hands-on-deck approach.

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foundation could contribute at much as $10 million, h & r block, $5 million. >> the very popular green card lottery could get the ax as part of the new immigration bill. the program gives visas to 50,000 residents. >> it is graduation season and right now vice president joe biden is about to speak to the graduating class at the university of pennsylvania. his granddaughter just finished his freshman year there and his son, bo, is also a graduate. >> over the weekend, the first lady spoke to eastern kentucky grads. >> make no mistake, you can go anywhere, anywhere you choose. so be proud and never, ever doubt yourselves. walk boldly on that road ahead, no matter where it takes you.

>> try to do something that will make you happy and most people are happiest doing what they are best at. you have been given that gift. >> and if you read only one thing this morning, tell the truth. how often have you called in sick when you weren't really sick? blue flu got you down? my must read tells you which workers take the most sick days. the results are so interesting and it up on our facebook page at facebook/jansingco. safer energy company. i've been with bp for 24 years. i was part of the team that helped deliver on our commitments to the gulf - and i can tell you, safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge safety equipment and technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all our drilling activity, twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely.

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abortion a target to aim at relentlessly. dozens of states have introduced measures this year to restrict abortions. good to see both of you. good morning. >> good morning. >> good morning. >> were you surprised by the comments by justice ginsburg. and is she right, was roe v. wade so sweeping it gave ammunition to the other side? >> no, it wasn't surprising to hear it again. there's a little bit of history that's murky in her comments. the reality was that the legalization of abortion certainly as a political issue was not something that was sweeping, there was not significant momentum before roe. so this idea that the court somehow stopped momentum that was happening isn't quite true. >> noel, 42 states introducing new measures to restrict

abortion this year alone. to opponents feel they still have momentum on their side somehow? >> first of all, yes. this is such a hot button issue and especially on my side, on the republican side. but let me tell you something, bravo to ruth bader ginsburg for looking at this intellectually. this was wrong on two ways. constitutionally it's wrong because constitutionally the right to privacy doesn't exist and secondly it's wrong because this focused -- roe v. wade focused on the fetus rather than the women's rights -- and the feminist movement. so i get her point. >> aisha is that how you read the court's ruling? >> it was actually the court itself that opened up this ground swell of opportunity to

go in and put in these more egregious laws. after they passed roe, they went back to a couple of other rulings and loosened up the scrutiny with which they have kp examined the abortion laws in the first place. it's interesting the way that she's thinking about the history because the court actually had a role in this. >> when you look at the big picture, what you do see is what we said at the tops is all of the states addressing this and putting roe aside, at a time when most states are facing a big budget crunch, a lot of them have been setting aside money, noel, to defend their abortion laws. from a purely fiscal point of view, is this sound policy at a time when republicans are calling for fiscal restraint? >> no, i mean, it doesn't match up. unfortunately, i've got the title underneath me today with republican strategist. but looking at this intellectually, you know,

republicans we tout that we are against big government. well, it's kind of a catch phrase because we are saying that we're promoting big government in the bedroom with these social issues and especially the hottest ticket around, which is the abortion deal. >> and it continues to be obviously hot in a lot of states, which begs the question is this going to play in the 2014 elections? >> you know, one of the things that republicans have done unsuccessfully lately is constantly look for these wedge issues to play out in elections. the politicalization of these issues really underscores the fact that republicans have been very tone deaf to the health care needs of women in general. we've seen this come out time and time again. so there are reasons why women choose to have abortion, there are very personal reasons and we need to make sure our health care system is designed to support them in their reproductive health in general. we should be investing there as opposed to making this about

politics and who can win posts and elections. >> thank you to both of you. >> james holmes will ask a judge to change his plea to not guilty by reason of insanity, a move that could well delay the trial. holmes would then undergo extensive psychological testing. prosecutors are seeking the death penalty. 70 people were hurt and 12 killed in july. >> gerald murphy is accused of killing his girl friend and her 13-year-old son before the standoff began. police eventually moved in and killed murphy early yesterday. police say the three survivors, 18, 16 and 4 years old had been abused and assaulted by murphy. >> in minnesota a massive sheet of ice has moved on shore and

right up to people's door steps. amazing pictures. the ice flow is about three feet high and at times was moving about a foot every 30 section seconds. a moving ice flow has damaged about a dozen residents in manitoba, canada. experts blame ice flows on strong winds and a spring melt. >> the city of detroit is seeing red. a dire new report from emergency manager kevin roy says the net cash position was negative $162 million and is expected to reach $382 million in less than two months. it will be used as a starting point to pay down its $15 billion debt. >> and barbara walters will retire next summer.

after 15 years of nbc, she moved to abc. she will remain as executive producer of "the view," a program she found sounded. >> and "saturday night live"'s seth myers will take over jimmy fallon's spot when he moves to the "tonight show" next year. >> a new push to stop the rash of cell phone thefts. michelle, new york's attorney general has sent out an announcement money. >> they've already got a lot of programs on the phone. for example, if you lose your iphone, you can swipe it, erase it, et cetera, et cetera. he says they have the right to do this because they've advertised they have more security features than perhaps they do and that would be a violation of some trade laws

that he says he has the right to enforce. it going to be tough. to follow the same logic, you'd have to investigate maybe purse makers to say are you doing enough to stop people from ripping off purses. >> we have breaking news. a philadelphia jury has told the judge it is deadlocked in the case of dr. gossnell who is accused of killing a woman and four babies allegedly born alive. the counts that divided the jury not announced today but in addition to five murder charges, he also faces more than 200 charges of violating abortion law. it's not clear whether the judge will ask jurors to try again to reach a verdict or whether he will instantly -- instruct a jury to do so. so we're going to take a quick break. we'll be back as we follow this

developing story that the jury is dead locked on a couple of counts against abortion provider dr. kermit gossnell. we'll be right back. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers.

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or an annual fee, ever. go to citi.com/simplicity to apply. we are getting our first look at the moment of three cleveland kidnap victims are free. cell phone video shows officers rushing to the scene and pushing in the front doors. gina de jesus and michelle jumped into the officers' arms. >> she just kept hugging the cop and telling them keep me protected. >> the brothers are now talking to cnn about the sibling they now call a monster. >> i hope he rots in that jail. i don't even want them to take his life like that. i want him to suffer in that jail. >> i couldn't never think of doing anything like that. if i knew that my brother was

doing this, i would not be -- i would not -- in a minute i would call the cops. if i knew, i would have reported him. brother or no brother. >> i'm joined now about "washington post" reporter manuel roy franzia. first of all, a great bit of reporting from you and your colleagues. thanks for coming on the program. >> my pleasure, chris. >> the depravity of what he is charged of. his neighbors are shocked. you report on his history of violence, particularly on his ex-wife. what can you tell us? >> what's really chilling about what we learned in cleveland is that almost everything he is accused of doing now is foreshadowed by the way that he treated his common law wife. he beat her viciously, broke her

ribs, dislocated her shoulders, cracked her skull, according to family members who we spoke to. then look at what he's charged with. he's charged with raping these women, really viciously handling them, punching michelle knight in the stomach so that she would miscarry. >> and this is the first time i had seen this, she's a tiny thing. she's under five feet tall, right? and you also report she may have some undiagnosed problems. >> yes. her nickname was shorty, is what her family called her. she's 4'7" call. the report we were able to get our hands on is that she had

amea me mental condition that she sometimes had trouble knowing where she was. >> but he didn't want her child but he was fixated on amanda berry. >> this is the weird part of the story. he was benching michelle knight so she would not give birth but when amanda berry became pregnant, he was so insistent that she have a successful delivery that he told michelle knight that he had to make sure that that child lived. they brought in an inflatable swimming pool so that amanda berry could give birth into that swimming pool and when the birth started to go badly, when the infant was unable to breathe, michelle knight, quote unquote, bre breathed for her, which we believe is some form of cpr to save the child. >> so michelle knight may have

saved amanda's baby's life? >> that child, which is 6 years old, is alive based on our understanding of which took place in that house which relatives were already calling the prison house. >> were there missed opportunities? that's yet everyone has, whether it was police, neighbor, family members. should someone have seen this over the course of these ten years? >> we walked that neighborhood, talked with a lot of people and one of the most heart breaking things that we discovered was that ariel castro would walk around that neighborhood with this little girl, this child who was born in that inflatable swimming pool and people would see him doing that, holding her hand, walking in the park, sliding down the slide and people did not want to be considered gossipers and they -- even though they thought it was strange, would not ask what

this -- what the deal was with this child, why he had this child. and there were other times, too. police went to that house because he was ariel castro was accused of leaving a child in the school bus that he was driving. and at that very moment those police were at that door, those women were being held in that house. and to think that they were just steps away and could have saved them if they had only known is just -- it sends a chill down your spine. >> it just did when you said it, even though i had already read it. people who want to read more with go to "the washington post".com. great story. thank you for coming on the program. >> thank you very much. >> tonight three astronauts will head back to earth on board a soyuz capsule. after a weekend of high drama, two astronauts had to face a space walk to fix a leak.

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we are following several new developments from bangladesh this morning where police have just announced the search for bodies has officially ended nearly three weeks after the collapse of a garment factory building that killed 1,127 people. in response to the tragedy, the government there today agreed to allow garment works are to unionize, after saying yesterday they planned to raise the minimum wage for garment workers, who get some of the lowest pay in the world. joining me now is elizabeth cline, author of "overdressed,

the shockingly high cost of cheap fashion". >> thanks for having me on. >> you've seen first hand what working conditions are like in bangladesh. given that, were you shocked more than 1,100 people killed in a single accident? >> i think the figure would have been shocking no matter what i saw. but you're right, i went undercover in 2011 as a garment buyer. even at that point the industry was under a tremendous amount of pressure. all of these fashion companies are moving out of china and into bangladesh. bangladesh is trying to meet the demand of cheap fashion retailers and they're buckling under the pressure. >> they plan to raise the minimum wage and allow workers to unionize. they said that before. is there an indication this will be different? >> i think the living wage would be around $63, $64 a month and right now it's at $38 a month. hopefully that increase it this

time to where garment workers can have a decent life. it's the brand's responsibility -- they could increase the prices they pay to factories. it's not just the government that can change conditions. >> and instead of taking record profits, they could take have really good profits. >> exactly. >> unfortunately a lot of the women, and they're largely women, who work in these factories come from abject poverty. so for them $43 a month from zero dollars a month can change their life. >> they do need these jobs but, as you said, these are brands, whether it's jc penney. >> -- zarah, h & m.

>> and we're used to be able to get cheap clothes, disposable clothes. it's fashionable, i can buy it at one of the lower cost places because i can throw it away at the end of the year. look at this. 3% was spent on clothing. it was 13% in 1945. >> in america we're hooked on buying large quantities of clothes for very clean. we're quite literally addicted to low price. but i think even before this factory collapse, consumers, the mindset was already changing. people are already saying, you know, what i think my closet is full enough, i think i've had enough of these cheap fashion fixes and they were looking for an alternative. now this is really a turning point. i think that the brands are going to have to offer an ethical option are consumers are going to start looking elsewhere. >> the concern obviously is that

they change the practices in bangladesh and that it will happen what happened to china, then the companies move to other countries where they can find that cheap labor. >> where else are they going to go? the fashion industry has jumped from country to country for the past 20 years. i think they're at the end of the road here. they need to stay in bangladesh and make it a model country for working conditions and they need to translate that message to consumers and say this was made not only in a safe factory where you're not going to work where you're worrying you're going to die but it's actually a good place to work. i think the consumers are ready for that. you can get it with food. can you buy a fairly made, ethically made item of food. we want that with clothing now. >> elizabeth cline, thank you for coming in. >> senator marco rubio is calling for the head of the irs to resign. he has isn't a letter to secretary jack lew where he writes "it is clear the irs

cannot operate with even a shred of the american people's confidence under the current leadership, therefore, i strongly urge that you and president obama demand the irs commissioner's resignation immediately. that could well be one of the questions that we hear asked of the president coming up in our next hour. that's going to wrap up this hour of "jansing & company." chris matthews picks up our coverage in the next hour, president obama's joint news conference with prime minister david cameron. keep it here. [ female announcer ] doctors trust calcium plus vitamin d

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presidential press conference coming up. we kick off this hour with developing news here in the nation's capital. we're expecting a joint news conference from president obama

and prime minister david cameron. the president and prime minister sat down for talks the last hour that likely included anything from the civil war in syria to the upcoming g-8 summit in ireland. it's syria that's expected to dominate the discussion, after the twin bombs that killed more it and 46 people this weekend at the turkish border. the situation amping up as republicans hammer the obama administration hard on two fronts, one of this many here at home. front one, accusations of a coverup after the deaths of four american diplomats in benghazi and the fact that the administration edited those talking points 12 times. >> i'd call it a coverup. i would call it a coverup in the extent that there was willful removal of information which was obvious. >> some on capitol hill are calling for a select committee now to investigate who did what and when. >> i am willing,