outlet notice. do you know that was not done? >> there are exceptions to that rule. i do not know, however, with regard to this particular case why that was or was not done. i simply don't have a factual basis to answer that question. >> and it's also been reported that the associated press refrained from releasing this story for a week until the department confirmed that doing so would not jeopardize national security interest. that indicates that the ap was amenable to working with you on this matter. if that is the case, why was it necessary to subpoena the telephone records? did you seek the ap's assistance in the first place, and if not, why not? >> again, mr. chairman, i don't know what happened. there about with the interaction between the ap and the justice department. i was recused from the case. >> meanwhile today, the president honored law enforcement killed in the line of duty on capitol hill today. but last night, the president responded to the internal report on another scandal that being the irs, targeting conservative

groups. the president said in part the report's findings or intolerable and inexcusable. i've directed secretary lew to hold those responsible accountable and each of the inspect general's recommendations are implemented quickly so that conduct never happens again. joining us is kelly o'donnell. let's talk ago attorney general holder. there would be some anticipation that there would be this grilling. we know that a lot of high-level rhetoric coming in regarding this. nevertheless, i think we're getting what we expected in that holder recused himself so a lot of questions he could not answer. >> and once you hear a few of those "i don't know" some of the air comes out of the room. and certainly when you have house members and each getting a very short amount of time -- >> kelly, i apologize. he's answering questions regarding the irs. let's listen in. i'm sorry. thank you. >> i think we're going to have to get into the investigation

before i can answer that question more intelligently. but to the extent that there are enforcement gaps that we find, we will let this committee know and hopefully work with this committee to make sure that what happened and was outrageous as i've said, and if we have to bring criminal actions, so that that kind of act and that kind of activity does not happen again. >> i understand that certain officials in the irs have apologized. does an apology immunize you from criminal prosecution? >> no. >> under the fair sentencing act, we went from 101 to 118 to 1 with the crack and powder. under the 100 to 1 for possible -- >> kelly, let me bring you back in here. we heard from eric holder of

change, nevertheless, he was consider asked about criminal prosecution. >> the attorney general said he's exploring and that ordered that kind of investigation. part of what will happen initially is that we've got the report from the inspector general which helps to give us sort of the bureaucratic time line and insights into what was going on behind the scenes. when additional hearings happen next week that are more focused on this irs matter we will likely get more full answers because some of the people who will be called will have more direct knowledge. one of the things about the distance that the attorney general has, whether it's on the ap matter or on the irs case is there is a limit to what he feels he's able to say today. and that going to make it harder for lawmakers to get some traction on things. what it does give the attorney general opportunity to do is again say that it was outrageous. and that the administration will work with the congress to try to figure out what happened. in talking with lawmakers today, there's real frustration. in talking with one republican

senator who said that there is clearly an atmosphere of damage control of the administration, and what he believes is a pattern of trying to make it more difficult for bureaucrats to do the right thing or come forward. that was his assessment. on the democratic side, a senior democrat told me he was very concerned that he didn't get enough information from steve miller, the acting commissioner of the irs, and that there's a lot more to know. so at this point, you have lawmakers in both parties wanting answers, requesting more information and feeling like something is happen to happen. but after that report hit all of us last night. and people are having a chance to read through it and get a sense of what's in it, it's raising more questions which will keep this very much an active investigation and controversy for the white house, the agency and certainly here on capitol hill. >> kelly, thank you. joining me now congressman peter welsh democrat from vermont. he's a member of the committee on oversight government and

reform. you heard kelly o'donnell point out, at least senior officials on both sides either feeling real frustration. those were her words. damage control is what another person told her. and at least one democrat saying that they, too, feel that the questions asked have not adequately answered regarding the irs. what concerns do you have, if any, sir? >> well, huge concerns. well, this is outrageous and unacceptable. you know, the irs has to enforce the law but not an partisan basis. it has to be equal enforcement of the law. and of all the agencies, the irs has the biggest obligation to make sure it's playing by the rules in enforcing the law. two things have happened here, number one, the irs crossed the line. you cannot be targeting a particular group. that's number one. number two, they've destroyed their credibility to do appropriate investigations when the tax code is being abused. so this is a very serious situation. and in fact, we do have to get to the bottom of it. >> the "usa today" also points

out in reviewing this data that 27 months the irs put on hold all tea party applications for nonprofit status that it approved applications for similar liberal groups. in a sense slowing down some of these tea party applications and fast-tracking some of the liberal organizations. we've learned a lot of facts since friday when the irs originally apologized prior to the report itself coming out. today, though, no one has been fired. should that happen before this week's end? >> well we've got to get to the bottom of it before we fire people. but the fact is it's got to be on the table that people who are responsible could be fired. and they could be prosecuted. i mean, this principle of equal enforcement of law is what this whole country is founded on. and there cannot be any deviation from the commitment to that principle. we've got to enforce the law. i mean, but this would be like you're speeding down the interstate and if you're a farmer, you get a ticket. but if you're a factory worker, you don't. if you're speeding, the law

applies to you regardless of what kind of occupation you have. so this issue about the abuse of the tax code, whether it's an obama-affiliated organization or romney or call it tea party affiliated organization, they've got to play by the same rules. and it's up to the irs to do that. >> and as you well know, there's been criticism on how the obama administration has handled all of this. how would you, or at least you can give me your feeling on how this scandal has made it the benghazi to the irs and of course what we're watching right now, eric holder commenting on the ap investigation and those phone records, is the administration handling it the way you'd like to see? >> well, those are each separate. >> sure. >> you know, on the irs, there's nothing to handle. we've got to be fully transparent and follow the facts to whenever they may lead. that is profoundly serious to the integrity of the irs and to the principle of the whole treatment of law. benghazi, i think, quite

frankly, is much for political deal. there will be no satisfaction among the folkses who want to go after hillary clinton and the president. the ap is another one that i think is extremely important. the press is doing its job. and we've got to protect the first amendment. it may be that people who are telling the press things that are a secret should be taken into account because they may be crossing a line or a law. but the press, in doing its job, it not be challenged. and i think that this is unacceptable to be going after the ap phone records. >> congressman walsh, thank you for your time. i thank you for addressing all the topics. let me bring in former pennsylvania governor ed rendell and donna palmer. governor rendell, i've got to start with you, first, eric holder answering the questions he can regarding this ap investigation and a few being tossed on the irs. nevertheless, we're not seeing the fireworks that were predicted perhaps to happen in

the first hearing. what is your assessment at this point? what is the most important issue that the obama administration should be looking as it relates to the irs and this ap investigation? >> well, first of all, the president's involvement in either of these things is clearly limited. in irs, any idea that this is a plot hatched in the white house toe get a tea party groups is ridiculous. because as you recall, tamron, the head of the irs at that time was a an appointment of president bush, and i'm sure he would not have been part of a plot to do that. so the irs, the president has to act swiftly. i think he should have been even clearer in saying he's ordered secretary lew if the facts are borne out to fire the people responsible in no uncertain terms. i think he has to be very are strong on that. in terms of what happened here, the thing that concerns me the most is why there was a national security issue that was so severe, and so important, that the attorney general's office

allowed this to go on. and the president didn't know about it. good lord, you know, when i was governor, something like this, i would never have let it go on without me knowing about it, without me giving the okay. and that's what troubles me here. most of all. and clearly, we have to set up a system that is a third party arbiter, when national security's used as an excuse for doing something like this. >> well, anna, obviously, the white house is measuring and deciding what it can and cannot say at this point. "the new york times" and nbc is reporting as well that the white house is pushing to revive this media shield and they're looking to chuck schumer, the senator from new york, to be the person behind it who was the chief proponent of it before. we at least know behind the scenes they're looking at this saying what can we strategically do to move this forward and i guess protect the administration from some of the critics out there? >> absolutely. i think what we are really starting to see is the white

house going into damage control mode. they're trying to go own offense after having been on defense for the last several days with all of the different issues that have come up. and certainly on the shield law, you see chuck schumer, a big proponent of it. and honest advocate for the white house. and you're going to see senate democrats probably come out even more strongly in the coming days as a way to kind of rectify what could become even a longer term scandal. >> and we've got more hearings coming up. you've got friday, house ways and means committee they've got steven miller, of the acting irs commissioner will be there tuesday, a senate finance committee hearing where inspect general russell will be there wednesday, i think kelly o'donnell called it a hearingpalooza. but anna, the democrats believing being bogged down with the hearing over benghazi and now a week of hearings planned, while immigration and other

issues that are very important have disappeared. at least on the front page, i should say. >> yeah, absolutely. i think what, as a reporter in the capital, we're asking lawmakers in the days coming forward will this poison the well in the outreach that obama had been doing, having dinner with republicans trying to get a big deal on the deficit. do these three issues, benghazi, the irs and the ap scandal make it so there will be no discussion in the coming months. >> governor rendell. i want to play this rnc video. its vitaled demand transappears. >> to hold it accountable. there's many secrecy in the city. i will also hold myself as president to a new standard. >> society rnc at least believes they have some legs here.

are they overplaying their hand already. you even have conservative charles hummer saying let the facts speak for them. don't overplay, but the ads are out. >> that's the problem in washington today. everyone wants to use these for political purposes. look, there are legitimate things we've got to cure. in the irs scandal, obviously what happened is bad. the people that did it should be held responsible and i think fired. but we should take a look at what is a social welfare group that is tax exempt. clearly, bill burton's group on our side wasn't a coin and never shouldn't have been declared tax exempt. neither is carl rhodes to fix the problem. same thing with the shield law. fix it and agree on a bipartisan solution and good lord, let's get back to the business at hand in the country which is the fiscal situation, fixing the debt, immigration, energy, infrastructure, all the things, job creation. good lord, there are people out

there desperately looking for work and we're playing around with these issues. >> absolutely. governor rendell, orrin hatch, for example, says he wants the irs investigation to take priority over dealing with tax reform. and we mentioned it yesterday, a third of the house committees are now focused on investigating the obama administration. a third. and as i pounded out what kelly o'donnell called a hearing palooza next week, anna. >> this is going to be the issue. these three things are going to dominate the capitol for the next few days. the senate and hill have shown that they can't walk and chew gum at the same time. there's going to be hearings on that and markups for the rest of the week that's going to slow things down. >> just quickly, governor rendell, the criticism that the

government has not been as active. robert gibbs had his assertion on the andrea mitchell show that he thought the president should have been more upfront. let me read what dana millback had to say. he called it the you disinterested president. president passerby needs urgently to become a participant in his presidency. late monday he responds as if he was a bloke on a bar stool getting his information from the evening news. jon stewart played a couple of clips as well of the president saying he heard about it on the news or seen this or that on the news. what's your take on some of this, i guess, criticism? >> well, i reluctantly i agree with them. i think the president's ideas are all in the right focus. and he's trying to do a good job for the country. but, boy, as i said at the beginning, if it had been more or you or any of us, would you want the attorney general's office to go after the press' e-mails and phone calls on a

national security matter when you didn't say and determine, yes, this of a high enough level of national security that we can do this? boy, i would be outraged if my people did that without letting me know. >> governor rendell, anna, thank you so much. we appreciate you joining our panel. and we are following developing news out of las vegas. o.j. simpson on the stand. he's actually on right now in this bid for a new trial in the robbery and kidnapping charges. >> i kept telling, i'm not chasing this stuff. you get it, call me. i'll come and get it. >> by the way, this is o.j.'s first court testimony since losing the civil trial against him in '97. we'll play more of what he had to say regarding this case. and join our conversation on twitter. you can find us, and you always do @tamronhall and @newsnation. we're reading your tweets now. [ male announcer ] when you wear dentures you may not know

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horatio was going nuts about, you know, i think it ended up being like two hours late, you know, so it was getting a little hectic. >> developing now, o.j. simpson has been on the witness stand for about two hours in a vegas courtroom where he is seeking a new trial. in fact, we've got live pictures as simpson continues to testify for the first time about the incident that led to his 2008 conviction for armed robbery and kidnapping and sent him to prison for 33 years. he claims he was only trying to retrieve sports memorabilia items that he says were rightfully his possessions. >> was any use of force discussed? >> no, it wasn't. also i wouldn't have. >> that's what i'm asking, what's his advice regarding the

entire plan? >> that if they didn't give me the stuff, we have to call police. >> okay. >> and that's what i told everybody involved. that if they don't give it to me, then we get the police in it. >> nbc's leanne gregg joins us live from the courtroom in vegas. leann, the big issue, at least, a part of it simpson claims that his attorney did not make him aware of a plea deal that he claims he would have taken. but also that he got advice from his attorney on whether he could legally go and retrieve his possession and that his attorney gill galanter said he could. >> that's right. his attorney asked him if his plan was based on yale galanter's advice. that was the lead attorney during his trial. and he responded, yes, it was. it's all part of a bigger plan for simpson to gain a new trial and his freedom. he's been meticulously detailing the events leading up to and during the night when he and a group of associates stormed the

las vegas hotel room. he claims had was trying to take back personal items he thought had been stolen from him. that night resulted in his arrest, his conviction, and a prison sense of 9 to 33 years. he hopes this attempt will gain him some freedom and get him out of jail and also a new trial. he's already served about close to five years of that sentence, and he would be 70 years old before he's even eligible for parole. >> and just quickly. i know we're expecting him on the stand pretty much this entire day, how long will this last? i know yale galanter is expected to testify on friday? >> that's right. he will be on the stand all day today. and o.j. simpson may be back on the stand we're hearing today. so it will be a long day of court today. another long day tomorrow. and then the judge will decide. there's no jury inside. so it's you up to her. >> thank you so much, leann. let me bring in las vegas criminal defense attorney

michael kristolly. thank you for your time. we'll hear from yale galanter on friday. but we're hearing simpson's account today. will this boil down to who the judge believes or finds credible here. will there be documentation to prove either side? >> you know, tamron, that really is the case. that's what it's going to come down. this is mr. simpson's first opportunity to tell his side of the story. and he is saying he didn't have an opportunity to tell his side of the store because his lawyer prevented him from doing that. and the question is why did that lawyer prevent him from doing that? was it because he was a material witness? was it because he told mr. simpson that he could go and retrieve that property and then mr. simpson's testimony on direct examination if he had an opportunity to testify at trial would have been i relied on the advice might have lawyer. and ifs that what the case, that, i think, is the central issue as it relates to mr. simpson's post conviction relief possibilities. now, it's going to come down to

the believability and the credibility of mr. simpson and the believability and credibility of mr. galanter when he testifies. >> and if he is successful in getting a new trial again, we would, you know, relive this entire ordeal, much of what o.j. simpson is telling right now. what would be the chances that he could, i guess, get this entire case overturned and end up free? >> well, it's interesting that the judge is giving mr. simpson an opportunity to tell his story. she certainly could have narrowed the scope of the testimony down. >> right. >> and not given him this opportunity. >> right. >> but she has. and so the defense is taking advantage of that, laying out what they would have done, had mr. simpson had an opportunity to give his side of the story. if he is successful, then, certainly, had will have an opportunity in a new trial. and he will have an opportunity to testify once again. but it's a very difficult and high burden to make as far as establishing ineffective assistance of counsel. and i think it's going to boil

down to whether or not mr. galanter should have disclosed his involvement, of course communicating certain things to mr. simpson that the night that the events occur >> quickly, michael, how would you describe so far, o.j. simpson's demeanor, wait hethe s recounting his version of what happened as well? >> well, i think he's doing a fine job. i certainly think he should have had an opportunity to do that the first time around. the problem with his issue is that he was canvassed by the judge during the first trial. and the judge explained to him that he was waiving his right not to testify so that's going to be a hurdle he's going to have overcome. but as far as his testimony today, the biggest concern as far as his believability is, the fact that he is saying that he didn't know that there were weapons involved in this or that there was property taken from individuals associated with this case. >> all right, michael, we'll

continue to follow o.j. simpson's testimony and see where this leads. thank you so much. we're also following jodi arias back in court. the death penalty phase, her trial now under way. and for a second time in a month, another member of the armed forces assigned to help prevent sexual assaults in the mill stare under investigation for alleged sexual assault and misconduct. lawmakers are outraged and calling secretary of defense hagel to get tough. the details of this latest case stunning. we will lay out the case. and we'll talk with democratic congresswoman carolyn maloney who has pushed the pentagon to enhance its sexual assault training session and response. first, today's "money minute" and a look at how wall street is performing today. i want to make things more secure.

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the pentagon says it is taking action after another troubling case of alleged sexual assault in the military. the defense department is ordering all service members involved in sexual assault preference programs to be retrained and rescreened, following a new accusation of sexual assault by a serviceman whose job it was to protect women in the military. an army sergeant in ft. hood, texas has been arrested. including forcing at least one subordinate into prostitution and assaulting two soldiers. this comes at least a week after the officer in charge of the air force's sexual assault program was arrested in virginia in a parking lot for allegedly groping a woman in that parking lot. jim miklaszewski has the

details. jim, we know both of these reports out there according to the allegations, stunning allegations in such a sort period of time, against people who are supposed to be helping. >> and, you know, the fact is, all this comes, this rise in reported and unestimated estimates as many as 26,000 sexual assaults within the military this past year. even as the pentagon has ramped up its sexual assault preference programs. as we see two of these, a lieutenant colonel in the air force. and now, a staff -- or a sergeant first class at ft. hood are now accused, or at least one is accused. the other is still under investigation. the incident at ft. hood still under investigation. i have to stress that. but quite frankly, officials we're talking to say charges in that could come any day now. so despite the pentagon's best efforts and actually spending millions of dollars on this issue, they've really haven't

made any progress, statistically. now, if you talk to people on capitol hill and even people in the building who follow this, they argue that probably the only way that you can even make a dent in sexual assaults in the military is if you somehow change the military culture. and even make adjustments to the military justice system, which has led many who carry out these assaults to believe that they can do it with impunity. that they'll get away with it. so they talk a good game. zero tolerance, but nobody sees that, and they acknowledge that. nobody sees zero tolerance or bringing down the number of sexual assaults appreciably anytime soon. >> now let me bring in new york congresswoman carolyn maloney. thank you for your time. i know that you've worked out trying to get a database tracking these assaults.

do we have her? congresswoman, are you there? >> yes, i am. >> we just heard a technical issue there. the pentagon has spent millions of dollars despite its best efforts we're not seeing a decrease in reported or nonreported cases also that there's not a zero tolerance policy it seems, at least in the justice system regarding the military. and here we are of this incredible case of an individual assaulting and perhaps forcing someone into prostitution at ft. hood. what is your reaction to this? >> i'll tell you, tamron, it's getting worse. up 9,000. 26,000, only 3,000 being reported. which means that the victims feel that they're not going to be treated fairly. they don't even bother to report it. so it is systemic. it is strong, it is deep and it is ugly. and it is an extremely

disturbing when those in charge of preventing sexual assault and training people in this area are the ones that are charged with sexual assault. so the whole system need to be changed. and i personally believe that commanding officers who have been overturning jury convictions of rape, that she should be held accountable and responsible for the assaults under their command. and it should be part of the criteria by which they are judged if they are to be promote order not. then they might start treating this seriously. what we see say a pattern of sort of a wink and a nod and let's sweep it under the rug. and let's take care of our friends and the victims are treated -- if you're a victim, there's no services. you might even be drummed out of the service. and it's wrong, it needs to be changed. >> so congresswoman if this is rock bottom and this very well may be when you've got individuals who are supposed to be part of prevention program now accused of sexual assault,

the numbers as you pointed out mick pointed out, the clock is ticking. what needs to happen? and men and women are the victims of this assault. what needs to happen immediately? >> well, i think they have to turn their rhetoric of zero tolerance into a reality of enforcing it. enforcing protection for men and women in the military for many form of sexual assault. instead of commanding officers having the power to lower sentences, overturn convictions, and make these types of decisions, they should be held accountable for what is happening under their command. and if there is a lot of sexual assault under their command, then it should be a criteria by which they will not be promoted. it has to be treated seriously with consequences for those that are in charge. they're not treating it seriously, obviously. it's getting worse. and the reports are worse. even though they say they come before us and the american military is extremely

impressive. and they always say, we're going to change this, we're going to make it happen, and yet, they don't. it just seems to be getting worse. i would say, tamron, how do they collect she's peop these people? what is the criteria that allowed two alleged rapists to be in charge of the sexual assault? that's something incredibly wrong. instead of giving them promotions when it happens to happen under their command. >> thank you for your time. coming up, attorneys for accused cleveland kidnap ariel castro said he will fight the charges against him. plus, what may certainly be a strange comment his attorney made about the 6-year-old child castro fathered with amanda berry. >> mr. castro is extremely committed to the well-being and

positive future for his daughter who he loves dearly. >> we'll have more on ariel castro's defense strategy. plus, how have the scandals in washington sidetracked the federal government? the full team how that term focuses on the obama administration, with immigration, tax form, we're going to talk with nbc senior political editor mark murray. whwhat a nightht, huh? but, u um, can thehe test drivie be over nonow? head b back to the d dealership?p? [ mamale announcncer ] it's praractically y yours. but we stitill need yourur signaturere. volklkswagen sigign then dririe is back. anand it's nevever been eaeasir to get a a passat. that's's the powerer of german n engineerining. get $0$0 down, $0 0 due at sig, $0 depososit, anand $0 firstst month's p pt on any n new volkswawagen. vivisit vwdealaler.com tododay. on any n new volkswawagen.

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we have in fact confirmed that the deputy was the one who authorized the subpoenas. >> okay. well, i think we're going to have to talk to him about this. >> attorney general eric holder continues to answer questions on capitol hill. he's been asked about a number of things, including his department seizure of ap phone records and the ap also into the

irs targeting of conservative groups and the irs role on changing talking points on benghazi. the team points out that scandal and investigations are hurting the white house in another way by sidetracking the administration away from its second term agenda. joining me live, nbc news senior political editor mark murray. mark, obviously, we're keeping an eye on mr. holder here. he said it in regards to his recusal. he said, i guess it might have been helpful to have written it down. he said he recused prior to the ap subpoena and the white house had no knowledge, he said. >> tamron, he's trying to walk this tight rope saying he had recused himself but at the same time being up to speed and trying to answer questions. it is a tricky situation for him. of course, this is a hearing that comes into this. we're going to be having a lot more congressional hearings not only on this matter, but also the investigation on the irs, singling out conservative sounding groups. and the congressional testimony

goes on. >> but you pointed out in "first read" that this is sidetracking from a number of issues. i would imagine that we normally perhaps would be talking about the markup of immigration reform and some other things. work does continue, but to deny that this has certainly taps the brakes would not be honest. >> well, it has tapped the brakes. and oftentimes, events get in the way of the best laid plans. to me, the interesting thing, are these stories that we'll be talking about this week and next week, but last no longer than that? or is this something that's going to go on for months and months and months? that's the different between something being a distraction in the short term. on immigration, tamron, you and i have been talking about the latest twists and turns of that legislation over the past couple of months. that legislation really won't have its conclusion until later this summer, into july or august. so it would be wrong to say this is going to imperil immigration reform because that still has a ways to go.

right now, looking at the situation, the white house would rather be talking about other things than the things they're having to talk about now. >> certainly, but you've got republican orrin hatch saying this republican investigation is a bigger priority than, for example, tax reform. so the white house would like to change the topic, i'm sure. but you have some republicans who certainly have wanted to stay on topic regarding benghazi, and some of those same individuals have shifted to, for example, the irs. and perhaps ride it out as long as possible, thus, distracting from legislation that quite honestly when you look at immigration reform republicans have said they wanted and there is a bipartisan deal that's being worked on? >> and you said about orrin hatch. he has the potential to vote for the gang of eight immigration proposal. we'll see what he ends up doing on that front. but there is no doubt that this you althoughs president obama political enemies to be able to score points to make the current administration have to believe on certain things.

but someone like orrin hatch saying that now on tax reform. the question is once people from the irs, once everyone has their day in committee hearings, and if the conclusion that was reached by the inspector general is also the conclusion that's reached on capitol hill is that this was specific to the agency, this did not go into the obama white house or any other political folks in the white house, in the administration, but it probably doesn't have legs is a huge political scandal that we're going to be talking about for months and months. >> thank you very much, mark. i greatly appreciate you coming on with the "first read." the same jury that convicted jodi arias of first degree murder now hearing testimony on whether she deserves the death penalty. live pictures of arias crying in court. well let's get you ready. very nice. you see these various colors. got workshops every saturday. yes, maybe a little bit over here.

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arias is put on suicide watch after telling a tv station she would rather die than spending life behind bars but it's up to a jury to decide whether she deserves to die or life behind bars. amon, she's been crying again. so much attention paid to her demeanor throughout the trial and now the sentencing phase? >> that's correct. technically speak right now, the jurors are what they call the aggravation phase. and that is really to try and determine whether or not there was an unusually cruel plan in the mind of jodi arias when she carried out this murder. that is the stage right now that both the prosecution and the defense are arguing for and against. the prosecution is trying to establish that jodi arias carried this murder knowing that her victim was going to suffer. and in doing so, jurt will determine whether or not he's eligible for the death penalty.

that's the third and final stage of this trial. that will be determined in the coming bays, once the prosecution and defense wrap up the arguments. those arguments have been going on for close to two hours with minor interruptions here and there. on other news, jodi arias has been lifted off of suicide watch. he's been back to her cell. he's no longer on suicide watch. after that conviction last week, there was an interview that said she would rather die and had officials worried. right now, we're expecting this phase to last at least for a couple more hours and perhaps have that jury reach a decision whether or not he's eligible for the death penalty either as early as today or perhaps the coming days. but it certainly should not be as long as the trial phase. >> and it has to be unanimous, right? the decision has to be unanimous? >> that is correct. >> ayman, thank you very much. the u.s. ambassador to russia has met with russian ministry officials today after a u.s. diplomat is accused of

being a spy. that tops our look at stories around the "newsnation" today. russian authorities briefly detained u.s. official ryan fogle yesterday after he was caught carrying special equipment. he was later handed over to the u.s. embassy. and lawyers for ariel castro, the man accused of kidnapping the three victim in cleveland. they say he will not plead guilty. speaking to an affiliate, one of his attorneys said his client is not the man being portrayed by the media. >> well, i think that the initial portrayal by the media has been one of a, quote, monster. and that's not the impression that i got when i talked to him for three hours. >> castro's lawyer also says he will seek a change of venue to ensure his client gets a fair trial. up next, what does your gut

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time now for the "newsnation" gut check. the national transportation safety board wants to lower the legal limit for what's considered drunk driving. now officials say they don't expect the proposal to be popular but they say it's necessary. and when a change was made in europe, the number of people killed in drunk driving accidents was cut in half. more details from tom costello. >> reporter: in colorado funeral services for police officer kevin denner killed last week for allegedly driving drunk. just one of 10,000 people who

die each year in alcohol-related accidents. 170,000 are injured. >> we can choose to accept the senseless and needs losses or we can choose to act. >> reporter: the ntsb urged all 50 states to lower the legal definition of drunk driving from the current blood alcohol level of .08 to .05. the agency says that's the level at which many drivers's vision can be affected. in maryland this police officer said he's seen plenty of impaired drivers who weren't at .08. >> whether at .05, .08 or .12, once it impairs their motor skills and judgment, that's when it becomes dangerous. >> reporter: alcohol affects everyone different. on average, a 30-year-old male weighing 180 pounds would need to consumer just over four beers in an hour to reach a blood alcohol level of .05. a female weighing 130 would have

only two glasses of wine. already 100 countries use .05 as the legal limit for drunk driving. but the american beverage institute which represents bars and restaurants calls the recommendation ludicrous and saying that moving from .08 to .05 would criminalize behavior. >> most people were go out for dinner and have a glass of wine with dinner and not get to .05. >> reporter: it took 21 years for all of them to adopt the current standard. but the ntsb believes up to 800 lives can be saved each year if .05 were the law of the land. tom costello, nbc news, washington. what does your gut tell you? should states follow the recommendation for striekter drunk driving. go to facebook.com/newsnation. that goes it for this hour of "newsnation."

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right now on "the cycle," america's top attorney gets cross-examined on the irs scandal as the intelligence leaks. and a word of caution for president obama, when you -- jon stewart it might be time to start worrying. >> he wound out about the news reports yesterday on the road. >> and yesterday's news that the department of justice seized two months of phone records from ap reporters. i wouldn't be surprised if president obama learned osama bin laden had been killed when he saw himself announcing it on television. [ laughter ] >> the court of public opinion. o.j. simpson makes a plea for his freedom. like 1995 all over again. >> i'm toure. big names coming to your tv sets, but can they deliver like "the cycle"? >> of course not. ♪