house. >> laws were probably broken. >> obama being compared to president nixon on this, how does he think that. >> people who make those comparisons need to check their history. >> we are examining the facts to see if there were criminal violations sf violations. >> the inspector general's report says inappropriate criteria was used for 18 months. >> what's most disturbing, the inspector general couldn't rule out there was a broader problem. >> the report's findings are intolerable and inexcusable. >> these are things you typically see in the third world. >> the obama administration has valued its agenda more than its credibility. >> my question isn't about who's going to resign. >> the president is angry as hell about this as he should be. >> my question is, who's going to jail over this scandal? >> good afternoon. and we begin with the growing clamber for culpability.

and attorney general eric holder at this very moment on the hot seat over a justice department subpoena of journalists' phone records and the irs targeting of conservative groups. the scent of scandal has whetted republicans' appetites for a scalp. and if you think heads will roll, well, house speaker john boehner's got much more than that in mind. >> my question isn't about who's going to resign. my question is, who's going to jail over this scandal? >> the speaker there referring to the irs examination of conservative advocacy groups. an inspector general's report released late tuesday blamed poor management at the irs for the targeting of the tea party. the president issued a statement saying, the report's findings are intolerable and inexcusable. the white house announced the president would be meeting with officials from the treasury today to discuss next steps in the case and make sure that

those responsible are held accountable. nbc news has learned that two irs employees have already been disciplined. but just a tday after the attorney general ordered a criminal investigation into the matter, republicans appeared eager to take the case far and wide. >> is your investigation going to go beyond cincinnati, beyond ohio? is it going to be a national investigation that includes washington, d.c., as well? >> do you think these were just some low level folks or do you think it goes higher than that? >> the house is nowhere near done, by the way. the oversight committee will be holding irs hearings next week. as for mr. holder, he also had his feet held to the fire for the justice department's seizure of associated press phone records without informing journalists. >> tid you seek the a.p.'s assistant in the first place? and if not, why not? >> again, mr. chairman, i don't

know what happened there with the interaction between the a.p. and the justice department. i was recused from the case. and there are exceptions to some of the rules that you pointed out. and i have faith in the people who actually were responsible for this case. >> that investigation, of course, was launched after a previous demand by lawmakers to find out who was providing news organizations with secret information. then, as now, eyes were on the white house. let's get right to our panel. with us from washington is democratic strategist julian epstein. former chief minority counsel to the house judiciary committee. in philadelphia, lehigh university professor james peterson. julian, the attorney general maintains he was recused in this case involving the associated press records. and yet he also says he has confidence in the decisions of those who handled the matter. i ask you, julian, can he have it both ways? >> that's not having it both

ways. he was recused because he was a potential witness by fbi agents who were looking at the source of the leak. he has access to the information about this case which involved an al qaeda double agent in yemen who foiled a plot to bring down an airline over the mediterrane mediterranean. the leaking of that information could put hundreds, thousands of americans at risk. this was one of the worst crimes against this country imaginable. as you pointed out, lots of people, republicans and democrats, calling for a vigorous investigation. he had information about it, so he was properly recused. he followed the rules. what the justice department did here, it's very important to understand, was they exactly followed the letter of the law here. they went through extensive efforts to avoid having to even look at the phone records of the a.p. they did 550 different interview. then all they looked at were the toll records of a.p. which means the numbers that are going into the a.p. from third parties and the numbers that a.p. may be dialing in an effort to identify the source of the

leak. again, what is one of the worst crimes against this country, particularly when we're trying to fight terrorism. it was exactly done by the letter of the law. this is exactly what the doj rules provide for. and the folks that are complaining about this either just don't understand the law, don't understand the gravity of what this investigation involved, or are conveniently changing their positions right now because they're the very people that urged the attorney general to take a very strong position and leave no stone unturned. >> they absolutely did. professor peterson, the attorney general was less questioned than scolded just moments ago. the esteemable louie gomert cautioned that the -- >> we go after christian groups like billy graham's group. we go after franklin graham's group. then we're hands off when it comes to possibly offending someone who has been radicalized as a terrorist. and i appreciate the comment, there were people concerned

about possible profiling. but i would submit, attorney general, there were a lot more people in america concerned about being blown up by terrorists. >> as you can see there, professor peterson, mr. gomert's head was about to explode by the color of it. do you think these congressmen are taking the opportunity to ask real questions? because i have to say, this seemed more like a 19th century fairground game of coconut shy where members could throw anything at the head of the attorney general. >> well, there's going to be quite a bit of political grand standing because of the confluence of these three so-called scandals around the administration right now. this hearing had already been scheduled to speak about whatever intelligence was available to the government agencies prior to the boston bombings. but it has now become this kind of piecemeal, let's talk about all the different issues that are going on here for which the a.g., it seems to be, has been quite patient. i think on the issue of whether or not intelligence was actionable on the boston bombings, i mean, that's completely lost in the his rh

we need to get down to the facts of the matter. let's try to depolite size each and every one of these. >> good luck with that, professor peterson. >> that's how you make the changes that are necessary. >> good luck with that, my friend. i'm afraid this hearing has been going on for hours. there's no chance it's going to be depoliticized. everyone's favorite scandal chaser, darrell issa, did grand standing questioning mr. holder. suggesting another kind of coverup. take a listen to this. >> yes. you didn't want us to see the details. mr. attorney general -- >> no, no. >> in knowing the to and from -- >> no, i'm not going to stop talking now. you characterize something as something -- >> mr. chairman, would you inform the witness as to the rules of the committee.

>> it's inappropriate and it's too consistent with the way in which you conduct yourself as a member of congress. it's unacceptable and it's shameful. >> mr. issa left it to others, julian, to bring up fast and furious and benghazi. but how long will it be before mr. holder is accused of too few fries in a happy meal? >> i would say ouch in terms of attorney general holder's slapdown of darrell issa. darrell issa has become the inspector clouseau. he went after the attorney general on solyndra, fast and furious. those ended up being nothing. issa was embarrassed on that. i think to james's point, the three so-called scandals here, bengha benghazi, that involves how talking points are constructed. the a.p. story where the department of justice followed the letter of the law on one of the most serious crimes against this country. and the irs issue where we're learning that it wasn't just now, according to recent

reporting, it was not just conservative groups subjected to heightened scrutiny, some liberal groups might have been subjected as well. while that may be inappropriate, there's no evidence that went outside of the irs. look, i've worked in both these judiciary committees and the oversight committees through a number of different scandals. i can tell you these are not the facts or the cloth from which scandals are made. these are issues that will probably stick around for another couple weeks because the press is looking for stories right now. the republicans are looking for a political issue because they don't have a jobs agenda. but we have to keep per spelspe on this. these are not real scandals. this is something used to fill the air waves during a slow political time. this administration has probably been remarkably the most scandal free administration in our lifetime. this attorney general has probably been the most scandal free, notwithstanding darrell issa's and other efforts by the republicans, the most scandal free and effective attorney general we've seen in our lifetime.

>> professor peterson, if that's the case, what's motivating this? >> politics, politics, politics. we just are getting more information about the so-called breaking news from abc news that wasn't really breaking news with respect to benghazi. tgs pr it's pretty clear when we look closer at the irs piece, there are a lot of things going on. shrinking of the irs. misuse of a particular kind of criteria to take a shortcut in that environment to really look at a situation that we all should be looking at. which is the status of these organizations as social welfare organizations. there are important issues here. >> that is the scandal -- that is the biggest scandal of all. that is the biggest scandal of all. >> it would be nice if we could get to that particular issue. the a.p., we need a media shield law. let's get that law in place. focus on the issues, not on the scandal of washington sf. >> the idea of karl rove's organization getting through as

a social welfare organization is a joke. >> that, my friend, is what we're going to address in the next block of this broadcast. thank you. coming up, a rove by any other name. from an election night car wreck to the driver's seat? we'll explain. >> now, here are the guys. this is the decision desk. now we're in the heart of the decision desk room. you head this place up. chris, you've been doing all the number crunching. these guys behind you. you tell me whether you stand by your call on ohio given the doubts karl rove just raised. >> we're actually quite comfortable with the call in ohio. we're here at nashville's renowned jimmy kelly's steakhouse, where tonight we've switched their steaks

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just a brief glance at a single website this morning

suggests the white house is now drowning in a sea of scandals. >> obama's dangerous new narrative. >> scandal woes pile up. >> west wing schooled on scandal. >> d.c. turns on obama. >> these headlines refer to the trifecta of turmoil provoked by what happened in benghazi. a decision by the irs to selectively per sue right wing organizations, and the behavior of the department of justice which accessed telephone in your opinions used extensively by reporters at the associated press. all very serious. all raising important questions for the president and the administration. but as the white house comes under a hail of critical gunfire, one man has had the very best week in a very long time. you see, until recently, karl rove's advice, spending, and commentary amounted to this. >> do you believe that ohio has been settled? >> no, i don't. >> this is is democratic

territory. and we're quite comfortable with the idea that obama has carried ohio. >> i'm just raising the question of our responsibility to call these things when it appears to ordinary americans that we are not leading the pack for the sake of leading the pack but we're calling it. >> maybe we got you a slow computer back there. >> yes. who can forget karl rove's complete befuddlement on election night itself? or his taking more than $300 million from simple minded donors and spending it on the hopelessly mediocre mitt romney. just before election one news agency put it like this. the real loser on election day appears to be karl rove who now has to explain to his shadowy billionaire donors how he spent hundreds of millions of dollars on mitt romney's behalf and came up a cropper. now, thanks to the behavior of staffers in the international revenue service, mr. rove can look forward to many years of unimpeded political attacks.

dressed up as his attempt to improve the social welfare of this great nation. here are a few examples from last year. >> obama says spend more and promises jobs. obama donors and insiders line up for handouts. maybe we won't be crushed when our economy snaps. but someone will. it's time to take away president obama's blank check. >> barack obama. dishonest on taxes because he's failed on jobs. >> you see, now that the irs has been found to have breached its commitment to impartiality and chose instead to focus on the vast increase in right wing social welfare organizations known as 501-c4s, there's absolutely no way that they will ever go anywhere near those who continue to abuse the intended purpose of these charitable organizations. they will never ask the question that senate majority leader harry reid posed yesterday.

>> i ask, what has karl rove ever done to improve the social welfare of the united states? >> but now it's too late to even ask the question. because a perceived bias at the irs means they'll now be reluctant to focus on the real abuse that's been going on in fron oes. you know, george w. bush used to refer to karl rove as old turd bl blossom. this week he's come up smelling of roses. all because of the irs. an organization that's supposed to scrutinize the financial probity of political consultants just like him. next, the mitch mcconnell primary already under way in kentucky. we're on to you, senator. [ male announcer ] this is george. the day building a play set begins with a surprise twinge of back pain... and a choice. take up to 4 advil in a day or 2 aleve for all day relief.

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when did they know about it? what did they do when they found out? did they deliberately mislead congress and the american people? >> mitch mcconnell took to the floor of the united states senate today armed with magnificent pauses and led to the defense of all those tea party groups who were singled out for special scrutiny by the irs. now, this is incredibly ironic because many of those same tea party groups in the republican leader's home state of kentucky aren't exactly big fans of mr. mcconnell. in fact, mr. mcconnell is not especially popular in kentucky. he's been quaking in his boots that a tea party challenger would emerge in next year's republican primary and terminate his bid for re-election. so it's no surprise that he was first in line to denounce this nefarious plot to rail against this criminal conspiracy! to bemoan this -- what's the

word i'm looking for? >> it's clear they were on a jihad. >> right. jihad. that's the word. joining us now is representative john yarmouth, democrat of kentucky. good afternoon, sir. >> hello, martin. >> we're not even a full week into this story about the irs and already mr. mcconnell is describing that agency in terms which are usually reserved for al qaeda. what's your reaction to that? >> well, it's certainly hyperbole as dramatic as you could possibly imagine. i didn't think anybody died in this irs investigation. i certainly wouldn't relate it to any kind of religious war. i have problems with partisan profiling by any government agency. i think that's inappropriate. but what mitch mcconnell would want to do is have the irs totally vacate this field and let anybody spend whatever they want to for whatever purposes and let the taxpayers subsidize it. i think we need as you've put it so well in your commentary, we

need very intense scrutiny of all of these 501-c4s. >> absolutely. if mr. mcconnell's righteous indignation is only an act, it's not an act that many tea party people in your state are buying. in fact, one kentucky tea party leader called it opportunistic and offensive. so, mr. mcconnell can go on comparing the irs to terrorists all he wants, but how much good will this do for him if the dog whistle he's using falls on deaf ears in your state? >> it's not going to do him much good. a little background. mitch mcconnell opposed rand paul when he was running in the republican senatorial primary against a more conventional candidate, trey grayson. the tea party doesn't trust him. they've never trusted him. that's one reason why in a statewide poll not too long ago only 34% of republicans said they would definitely vote for him for re-election. so he knows that he's going to face a serious challenge in the primary and that he doesn't have the loyalty of much of the tea

party. so he's taking any chance -- or any opportunity he has to suck up to them. >> right. now, we saw a story in the "wall street journal" this morning. i'll quote it. "deficit is shrinking quickly," went the headline. now, mr. mcconnell claims to care about debt and spending. so surely he'll break from flogging benghazi and the irs to talk about the progress that's being made in the economy by this administration. is that true, sir? >> don't hold your breath. >> did you just see a pig flying across the capitol? >> no. mitch is on his own personal mission. that's to make every partisan comment he can possibly think of. he takes to the floor every day to bash the obama administration. again, trying to enhance his very conservative credentials. and he's really never talking about what his vision for the country or for kentucky are. that's why he's in such a poor standing in the state. >> congressman john yarmuth, as

ever, thank you, sir. stay with us. the day's top lines are coming up. >> what's become clearly apparent is a culture throughout the federal government, not just the irs but the department of justice, the state department, et cetera. that's embarrassing for the country. these are things you typically see in the third world. have a gooood nig. here youou go. you, , too. i'm goining to dream about t that steaka. i'i'm going toto dream about thatat tiramisu.u. whwhat a nightht, huh? but, u um, can thehe test drivie be over nonow? head b back to the d dealership?p? [ mamale announcncer ] it's praractically y yours. but we stitill need yourur signaturere. volklkswagen sigign then dririe is back. anand it's nevever been eaeasir to get a a passat. that's's the powerer of german n engineerining. get $0$0 down, $0 0 due at sig, $0 depososit, anand $0 firstst month's p pt on any n new volkswawagen. vivisit vwdealaler.com tododay. on any n new volkswawagen. with centurylink visionary cloud it'sinfrastructure,art.

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participanter. >> i wouldn't be surprised if president obama learned osama bin laden had been kimmed when he saw himself announcing it on television! >> if you've got the irs operating in anything less than a neutral and nonpartisan way, then that is outrageous. >> the president is angry as hell about this, as he should be. >> we'll wait and see what exactly all the details and the facts are. >> if this happened, then we'll look at it sounds exceedingly passive. >> he has to come forward and give more of an answer than he has done. >> the tenner of this briefing would be different if the president had spoken about this on saturday or sunday and not on monday. >> why can't you be a better president? >> if the president had spoken on monday less about losing patience for this, which is what i do with my 9-year-old, and used far more vivid language. >> it's good to express outrage. the language could have been more vivid. perhaps he could have come out on saturday. >> there was a delayed reaction on the part of the white house. the delayed reaction on the part of the president. >> he was probably waiting to see, was that the right thing to

do? maybe not. >> i don't think anyone truly believes that the president has given a sufficient answer. >> these are complicated issues. >> there may be less complicated when you have the justice department actually following justice department fwguidelines >> he has to tell america including me what was this national security questioning? >> that part of this equation is not complicated. >> you just can't raise the flag and expect us just to salute it every time. >> let's get right to our panel. we're joined now by anna marie cox. correspondent for the guardian. and jonathan capehart, opinion writer for the "washington post." anna marie, i don't think we've seen republicans this giddy since the debt ceiling debacle of 2011. do you think they're rejoicing a little too quickly here? >> i think they haven't stopped rejoicing. i think their giddiness over scandal has sort of been a consistent theme for this administration. i shouldn't say giddiness over scandal, even.

anything that stops things from happening. any kind of investigation that puts the brakes on any kind of progress basically on anything. this is the "no" congress. out rage would be easier to take from people that aren't on either partisan side if they offered solutions. as it is some of the things they're saying about these scandals and some of the outrage they're professing are over things that certain legislative actions could have avoided. like protections for journalists which could have stopped this a.p. scandal. which issa, darrell issa himself, voted against those protections. >> of course he did. jon, we're hearing this worse than iran contra. and watergate put together. but i wonder if the hyperventilating may be getting a little too much even for some republicans. take a listen to this. >> the one advice i'd give to republicans is, stop calling ate huge scandal. stop saying it's a watergate. stop saying it's iran contra. let the facts speak for theps. have a special committee. the facts will themselves for

themselves. pile them on. but don't exaggerate. don't ran ads about hillary. it feeds the narrative of the other side that it's only a political event. it is not. >> jon, it is political, isn't it? >> it's all political, martin. this whole thing. as i wrote today, we've got a real scandal. which is what happened with the a.p. and the justice department. you have another real scandal which is what was happening with the irs. then you have the scandal that's mask mas tgs as if the public thinks the president is down in some secret corner of the white house directing the justice department to go after the associated press. directing the irs to go after tea party groups. >> he is, isn't he? >> no. >> that's what they say. >> he's not doing that at all. here's the thing, martin. we're spending our time talking

about the thee yatatrics and po of benghazi, a.p., and irs, and not what we've been talking about the last year which is the economy. the congressional budget office put out a report yesterday that said the budget deficit is down below $1 trillion for the first time at its lowest level since 2008. remember when the republicans were talking all about the economy. we must do something about the debt? >> i can't remember any of that. >> they're drunk on scandal. they're mute on this. >> in fact, i cannot remember the last time i heard paul ryan mention the word deficit. ana marie, do you agree this is a fixation that's convenient as opposed to the reality of circumstances that we need to engage with now? >> i think that's mostly correct. i think jonathan's sort of on to something when we says we talk about these skand candals in di disproportion with what matters to the american people, the economy. i have to say, i think democrats

can probably take some comfort if -- it's not to say they aren't important. i would like some more protections for the press myself, being a nominal member of it. >> so would i. you're not a nominal member. >> the thing is, there is such a thing as scandal fatigue. there is such a thing as outrage fatigue. that's sort of what i see happening on the republican side. they themselves have an inexhaustible appetite for outrage. but i think that most normal news consumers just see this heightened hysteria. this hysteria that stays at a volume of 11. they distrust people who can't modulate their volume about different kinds of scandals. to make all skacandals the same importance means you're not paying attention and offering analysis of them. you're doing outrage for outrage's sake. a lot of these things we should be paying attention to, i agree with jonathan. a.p. investigation, the irs

targeting groups of certain affiliations. we need to not just scream at the top of our voices which is what it feels like the republicans are doing. >> it certainly does. jon, can you explain this to me. there appears to be a themmatic of hypocrisy. we have darrell issa who votes against the shield law for journalists but then tries to link the pursuit by the department of justice of the associated press reporters and condemns that. then, of course, we recall his pursuit in relation to benghazi. of course, the same darrell issa voted against -- or voted for the reduction of funding by $128 million in 2011 to protect embassies and securities and consulates. and $331 million in 2012, the year in which ambassador chris stevens was killed. >> yeah. it's all -- it's all hypocrite cal. the main reason we're talking about benghazi talking points as opposed to why what happened in

benghazi, libya, on september 11th, 2012, it's because republicans do not want to talk about the fact that they cut, as you said, diplomatic security. hillary clinton warned, i believe it was in 2011, early 2011 at a congressional hearing -- >> i remember the hearing. >> this will damage national security. >> absolutely. >> unfortunately and tragically, that came true. but republicans don't want to talk about that. they want to nitpick what was said between the state department and intelligence community and the white house and what susan rice said on morning shows five days after the tragic incident. >> absolutely. jonathan capehart and the very firm journalist, ana marie cox. a part of our community. thank you so much. coming up, the time to confront a disturbing pattern at the pentagon is now. stay with us. do we have a mower? no. a trimmer? no. we got nothing. we just bought our first house, we're on a budget.

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for those who are in uniform, who've experienced sexual assault, i want them to hear directly from their commander in chief that i've got their backs, i will support them and we're not going to tolerate this stuff and there will be accountability sfwl that w accountability. >> that was the president a week ago promising to end the military culture that has produced two high profile incidents of sexual assault in the military. a latest from ft. hood where an unnamed army sergeant charged with coordinating a sexual assault prevention program is accused of accused sexual conduct and possibly forced prostitution of three women. this follows the arrest of an air force colonel assigned to similar tasks for assaulting a woman in a parking lot. the number unreported cases of sexual assault is rising dramatically.

karen finny, soon one of my colleagues here at msnbc. and my boss very soon. karen, i want to read you what the director of the sexual assault unit tells "usa today"c. he says this. how will we know when we get there? we'll know when we get there when a sexist remark is treated with the same absolute disdain and visceral response as a racist slur is today in the military. what was your response to that? >> i would like to think that racist rhetoric is responded to that way. it is most of the time. not all the time. i think that's a lovely idea. i think the most important thing is it's got to be clear that the punishment for rape, if that is not conduct unbecoming, if that is not a reason to be removed from the services -- >> dismissed. >> i cannot -- you know, i cannot imagine what else is. i think it's got to be just that serious. now as you know, part of the problem is, women get told they're crazy. you don't want to report this. this is going to be bad for your

record. >> it'll injure your career, undermine your prospects. >> that's right. right. >> right. so the pentagon report says there are 70 assaults, seven zero, that occur daily. we've known about this for some time. why has this not been a priority for washington. >> because i think a couple of things. number one it's not been made a priority. the documentary film "invisible war" that came out earlier this year did a lot to put the issue front and center. >> karen, that's public relations. i'm talking about the army itself on the forces themselves. >> i think, "a," the issue has been underreported for a very long time. "b," the culture within the military, in particular the armed services, is such that it's just not talked about. it's not dealt with or it's telt with very quietly. i think part of the problem -- a lot of these women, it's a very difficult thing, as for any woman who's been raped, to come forward. certainly under those conditions, in terms of the

kinds of scrutiny that you will face, they make it incredibly hard for the woman. the burden of proof is really on her in a way that i think really victimizes her again. when you talk to victims that's what they say. after the rape the way they were treated by the military is a second rape. >> almost as if the calculation for a woman makes it not worth pursuing. >> right. which is why when you think about the numbers you were just talking about, that is a fraction, likely, of what's really going on. that is just the tip of the iceberg. >> this is what the chairman of the house armed services committee has said. i've seen no meaningful distinction between come plplac or complicity in the military's latest failure to uphold their own stan tards of conduct. nor do i see a distinction between the service member who orchestrated this offense or the chain of command that was either oblivious to or tolerant of criminal behavior. it requires all parties, does it not? that says it. >> it really does. that as you know, the crux of this issue now, will this continue to be something handled within the chain of command?

or is it something that will be taken out of the chain of command? part of the problem i think we're seeing is that the military culture in and of itself doesn't know how to handle these cases. and i mean everything from the intake and the rape kits to then how these cases -- how you gather evidence, how the case is prosecuted. part of the problem is they just don't have the capabilities. a lot of folks are saying let's do this outside the chain of command. the other problem is there is not the impetus currently, that's why that comment is so important within the chain of command, you don't want to report this up your chain of command. then it's saying you failed. part of the punishment for not reporting it has to be as great as the punishment for the person who has actually committed the crime. it's got to be clear that if you have a case of this going on in your unit and you let it happen and you don't report it, that there will be consequences. >> do you think, finally, that people are frightened to talk about this because there's a

reluctance to cast dispersions on our fwragreat men and women serve this country mostly with such distwings. >> i think that's true. i will tell you, you know i have someone tedear to me currently the military. he makes the point it's people like him who need to be actually more vocal and stand up. a lot of guys and women think it's horrible. to them they're ashamed of those folks who behave that way. i think we need to remember that as well. that there are good people in our military who could be part of the solution, actually. >> absolutely. karen finny, such an important point. thank you. coming one a time warp from a moment of relief -- for a moment of relief in 1995, to a tay defending himself in 2013. stay with us. that is mr. simpson. i had enough of feeling embarrassed about my skin. [ designer ] enough of just covering up my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. i decided enough is enough.

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orenthal james simpson not guilty of the crime of murder in violation of penal code 1 #7 a, upon nicole brown simpson, a human being, as charged in count one of the information. >> it is a moment that few of us will ever forget. i know i never will. an acquittal in the trial of the century. as o.j. simpson, football star and one time hollywood actor was found not guilty of murdering his wife and her friend, ron goldman. fast forward nearly 18 years. and at this very moment a slightly heavier o.j. simpson is back in court seeking to overturn a 2008 guilty verdict on charges of armed robbery and kidnapping, claiming this time that he was the victim of poor legal representation. >> it was my stuff. i followed what i thought the

law. my lawyer told you you can't break in a guy's room. i didn't break into anybody's room. i didn't beat up anybody. i at no time tdidn't try the mu guys. i didn't. the guys acknowledged it was my stuff. even though they claim they didn't steal it. >> a moment of relief in 1995. a day of defending himself once again here in 2013. stay with us. we'll have much more straight ahead. ♪

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it's not often that angelina jolie, nancy pelosi and eric cantor make news for the same reason. but two days after the academy award winning actress penned a moving editorial about her decision to undergo an elective double mastectomy, the house majority leader promised tomorrow the 37th, yes, the 37th vote to repeal the president's health care law. a repeal that would end coverage

for, among other things, a test for the sort of rare cancer that miss jolie hopes to avoid. as miss pelosi noted today, and despite obviously being under the weather, this law evens the ground between men and women. >> women no longer pay higher premiums for the same coverage and being a woman is no longer a pre-existing medical condition. this is a big deal. >> joining us now is angela rye, a political strategist, and krystal ball, co-host of "the cycle" and my colleague. 71 million people are already benefiting from this law. that includes coverage for cancer screenings, contraceptions, domestic violence counseling. can you remind me why we should repeal this law? >> i think republicans have seized on this as one thing that they can all agree on. and they have no alternative to

offer, frankly. so that's what they've decided to do is just to oppose it. whereas, you know, i don't think anyone says this bill is absolutely perfect. it's going to be -- it is a great thing for women. it'll be a great thing for america when it's fully in place. if they had engaged in the process rather than voting to repeal it 37 times, if they had offered 37 amendments to make the bill better, to improve it in ways that they think would improve health care access for all, that would have been a much more productive use of time. and also would have been more productive for them because they could have had a real role in the process. >> yet they go for the 37th vote tomorrow. >> exactly. which is just -- it's just a disgusting waste of time and a farce instead of governance. >> it's also an insult, isn't it, to women's health? given the provisions that are included here? >> that's absolutely right. one of the things i found out, i'm expecting here shortly, breast pumps are also required to be covered under the

affordable care act. it's good for the baby. it's a smart fiscal decision. you'll have lower costs down the road. >> the center for american progress says that just over half of uninsured women are women of color. that's african, latina and asian-americans. i thought republicans wanted to rebrand their party? why are they wanting to repeal something that is going to be a benefit to women of color? >> sure. martin, i think that we have seen over time that this party not only struggles with their messaging and their outreach to communities of color and to women and to young people, they also struggle with the policies and grasping the things that these different constituencies care so deeply about. i was a law student at the time, 2005. and in 2005, i was kicked off my parents' insurance. so i understand this personally. so when you haven't ever really had to go through any of these things, it's really hard for you to create policies and implement policies that make good sense. imagine what we could do if 37

attempts to make our streets safer by implementing gun control. imagine what we could do with job creation if there was 37 attempts. >> krystal, the new times report that these 37 votes, other time spent arguing about the affordable care act, means they've spent 15% of their time on the house floor in attempts to repeal this. when does this end? >> i don't think -- it's like compulsion. they have nothing else to offer. they're splintering in other areas. there's a conversation that never happened. there's an assumption we all want to see better health care access. universal health care. i don't think that's true for a lot of republicans. remember, there was a republican primary debate where basically ron paul said if you can't afford coverage, you should be left to die. and the audience cheered. there's a significant section of society that does not believe that everyone should have access to health care. and i think a lot of what

they're doing are attempts to obscure that fundamental fact that that is their actual core philosophical belief. >> angela, final question to you. how do we hold this party responsible for this continuing wastefulness, waste of time, and disregard of positive opportunities to do something constructive? >> they've got to hear from their constituents, despite all of the many distractions that are taking over capitol hill this week alone. they've got to continue to raise their voices. there's a kaiser family foundation poll that illustrates clearly the american people would like to see changes to the law. but they don't want to continue to see folks trying to repeal and defund the law. >> angela rye and krystal ball, brilliant. thank you both. >> thank you, martin. >> thank you so much for watching this afternoon. chris matthews and "hardball" picks things up right now. chief executive. let's play "hardball."

good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. there's a dangerous narrative emerging for the president in the wake of these controversies involving benghazi, the irs and the associated press. it says he's passive and uninterested in governing. in the face of the cascade of negative stories the president seemed to lack a response. he's allowed the impression to emerge out there that, as i said last night, he's a ship with the engine turned off. well, "the washington post" dana milbank wrote the following today. president passer-by needs urgently to become a participant in his presidency. certainly a president can't know what everybody in his administration is up to. but he can take responsibility. he can fire people. he can call a stop to foolish acts such as wholesale snooping into reporters' phone calms. dana milbank joins me now, ok, along with alex wagner. thank you both for