lzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. i'm craig melvin. you are watching msnbc. the ben plaza guy won't go awake the irs targeted conservative groups, it is not clear whether the workers were malicious or lazy, but politically, one thing is for certain, it has been arguably the worst week ever for the obama administration. >> why did you mislead congress and the american people on this? >> mr. chairman, i did not mislead congress nor the american people. i answered the questions as they were asked. >> you didn't mention targeting based on ideology. you didn't mention targeting based on buzzwords like tea party or patriots or 912.

you knew that but didn't men that to the committee. do you not think that is a very incomplete answer? >> i answered the question truthful truthfully. >> will this serve as rallying cry for the tea party? a federal investigation is now under way after two packed commuter trains in connecticut collided during friday evening's rush hour. connecticut's governor updated that situation a short time ago. we will get a live report. plus, power fever. >> give back to the community. vacation, of course. >> did you get your ticket? the record drawing is tonight and that has a lot of folks dreaming about what they would do with the half a billion dollars. we will get to those stories in a moment. first, we start with our saturday afternoon political headlines. former republican presidential nominee mitt romney stopped by nbc's tonight show last night. among other things, jay and mitt talked about the attack on the american consulate in benghazi.

>> you think if it had been labeled terrorism instead of an islamic video, it would have changed the election? >> i think a point discussed but i don't think it would have changed the election. >> president obama went to obama yesterday to promote johns in the middle class. in his weekly address this morning, he admitted it's hard to stay focused on his agenda right now amid all the turmoil in d.c. >> getting out of the washington echo chamber whenever i can because too often, our politics aren't focused on the same things you are, working hard, supporting your family and supporting your community. making sure your kids have every chance in life. irs commissioner steve miller was questioned. dave camp says the problems want agency extend beyond the current scandal. >> the reality is this is not a

personnel problem this is a problem of the irs being too large, too powerful, too intrusive and too abusive of honest, hard-working taxpayers. there isn't a person i come into contact with at home who does not fear the irs. >> what was actually accomplished during the irs hearings yesterday and what's next in terms of the investigation into illegal behavior at the agency? joining me now is congressman jim mcdermott, sits on the house ways and means committee. he took part in yesterday's hearings. good sigh. >> good to be here. >> what would you say came out of the hearings yesterday? >> i think the fundamental story came out that a few members of the agency used some inappropriate criteria to select out people's applications for tax exemptions and didn't find anything that anybody had done wrong. the ig's report didn't say there

was any partisanship or there was any legal wrongdoing or anything like that it simply was that the job the irs those do that is if somebody asks for a tax exemption, it's their job to decide whether or not they are entitled to it. >> what about the fact it got roughly 70,000 of these apparently to sift through? >> well, that's what well gummed up the works. ordinarily, they get a quarter of what they got this year, but after the citizens united lawsuit in 2010, a large number of corporation and groups came running in wanting a tax exemption so they could use their money to use it in the political process. and the irs said, whoa, wait a minute here. they were really overwhelmed and they made some bad choices. there's no question they made some bad choices. >> one of our producers who is keeping an eye on the hearing yesterday noted at one point,

there was almost a ten-minute stretch where there was actually not a question asked. there seems to be a lot of speechism fyiment ng, a lot of grandstanding. how productive was the exercise itself? >> let me tell you, melvin where this is going. they are going to try to tie this stuff in the internal revenue service to the implementation of the affordable care act. the real target for the republicans is stopping the implementation of the president's obama care and use it because the irs is the one that's going to determine whether or not you're entitled to a subsidy or whether a small business is entitled or whatever. they are going to do the financial things. what you're seeing now is an attempt to tie that to the implementation of the obama care to make everybody say this is awful t is not going to happen. it is driving the republicans

nuts because they can't stop the president's plan for moving forward. >> on health care specifically? >> on health care. >> i want to call your attention to something before i let you get out of here. today's "wall street journal" columnist peggy noonan writes, "we are in the midst of the worst washington scandal since water guy. the rep tailings of the obama white house has, among conservativ conservatives, gone from sketchy to sinister and among liberals from unsatisfying to dangerous." how damage is this scandal potentially for the president in thatting a august just mentioned? >> he has to deal with it promptly and he has done that he fired two people. he has moved in and said this is outrageous, i'm gonna get rid of people that do that and moved on it is not like a burglary that was committed by the nixon white house and then was covered up. no comparison whatsoever. most people don't remember the facts but the facts are not the same today as they were 40 years

ago. >> congressman mcdermott, thank you. appreciate your time on this saturday. >> you're welcome. the white house is amping up its efforts to get out ahead of the trio. of trouble that plagued the obama administration for a week now. white house adviser dan five letter run the gauntlet tomorrow, dispatched to do five separate sunday political talk shows and with his second term agenda in a precarious position, to say the least, his boss tried to push back, push past the scandal and refocus on the future dur stop in baltimore yesterday. >> our single most important priority as a country right now and you that is reigniting the true engine of our economic growth and that is a rising, thriving middle class. >> may have restson a correspondent for the "los angeles times." a staff writer for the hill and kristen welker is live for us at the white house on this saturday. good to see all of ya.

how does the administration plan on going about trying to change the subject? >> well, craig, i can tell you that white house officials have confirmed for me the "new york times" story which says chief of staff dennis mcdonough directed the staff here to spend about 10% of their energy dealing with those controversies that you just mentioned and the rest of their time focused on the president's second term agenda which you of course, includes immigration reform, deficit reduction. but there are a lot of unknowns right now, just how big will these controversies sfwhk they are particularly concerned about the irs controversy that is one that has a lot of legs because it is something that impacts average americans, something that really gets americans fired up but that is really the directive from the white house at this point in time. in addition to all of those

unknowns, there is, of course, the question of how do they make this stick in how do they shift the conversation? we saw president obama try do that in his weekly address. americans are quite frustrated by. this the president has a limited amount of time to enact his second term agenda. to so it is not clear they will be successful at shifting the conversation hand republicans really digging in their heels. they have vowed to broaden the scope of the irs investigation. >> elise, white gop is digging in its heels what are you hearing from democrats on the hill? what are they saying specifically about how the white house has handled these so-called scandals? >> well, i think democrats joined republicans at the very beginning in saying that president obama needed to be aggressive and just like you heard from jim mcdermott there they feel like he has handled it well, he got out in front of it he was able to dismiss some of these irs officials, right? and i think democrats are happy with his performance. they are now pif vogt and saying that these are republican

attacks that are driving the narrative, not the white house's it dysfunction. >> maeve, where does it go from here? >> you have the scandals at the same time, benghazi, irs, ap subpoenas elevated all of them and i think we are still waiting to learn a lot of facts, obviously, the white house was trying to get out in front of benghazi by releasing the e-mails this week but still a lot of questions that need to be answered on the irs and these all could be really potent issues in the presidential race, even in 2016. >> maeve, the ap story didn't get a lot of ink, perhaps arguably not the ink it deser deserved. that a story, maeve reston that comes back, or is that one that has gone away, we think? >> a scary story, especially for reporters like you and me, but the question is whether or not the public will pay that much attention to it going forward.

i mean, that's an interesting issue of the reporter shield law because you do have democrats and republicans -- kind of it's not all one side and there are certainly national security concerns surrounding that so i think we are just going to have to see where that one goes from there. >> kristen, we got word that the president is playing golf again today. is the white house concerned about this the president once again playing golf on a saturday with all this brewing around him? >> officially, they say no. he is opening himself up to criticism playing golf on a saturday after a week that has yielded one of the worst week he is here at the white house. you could argue that is part of his strategy, shift the focus and get things back to normal on friday, he was in baltimore talking about the economy, not unusual for him to play golf on a saturday. as you know, i'm here most saturdays, craig, so this is not

unusual and so this could be the strategy, put on a face face of normalcy amidst the thunderstorm. >> who is he playing with today? >> one of his top chefs, sam cass, as well as kathleen sebelius, some of his secretaries, in fact, so really some high names out on the golf course with him. i will be interested to see what the score s >> and he doesn't -- he doesn't -- you know, he doesn't play with a lot of women. this will be interesting. >> a great point that's a great point. >> nbc news white house correspondent, kristen welker, elise very beck and maeve reston from the "los angeles times." we will see elise and maeve in a few minutes. tea party members are floating the i-word with the president and irs scandal, talking about impeachment.

>> a weekend that hasn't gone by that someone says to me, michelle, in what in the world are you-all waiting nor congress? why runt impeaching the president? >> it just michele bachmann or actually other people talking about this? coming up, going to talk to the head of the tea party express about what her group wants to happen in the wake of the scandal. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis, like me, and you're talking to your rheumatologist about trying or adding a biologic. this is humira, adalimumab. this is humira working to help relieve my pain. this is humira helping me through the twists and turns. this is humira helping to protect my joints from further damage. doctors have been prescribing humira for over ten years. humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms.

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one needs to be held responsible. someone needs to be imprisoned. someone needs to be prosecuted. the resignation is a step in the right direction but we need to find out who wrote this policy who approved this policy and they need to be held accountable. >> or perhaps also find out whether there was actually policy. the controversy over the revelations that irs employees targeted tea party and other conservative groups for scrutiny, controversy is growing. lawmakers and others want to

know if there was political motivation behind the agency's action. amy cramer is the chairman of the tea party express. amy, it's always good to get your perspective gooched to see you on a saturday >> good see you. thanks for having me. >> do you see the irs, the so-called scandal, do you see it as an isolated incident or do you think that this is an organized policy by the administration, perhaps a vast left-wing conspiracy, if you will? >> well, i don't see it as a vast left wing conspiracy, but i don't know there was actually policy written. i see it as it's only a symptom of a bigger problem, a disease, and that is big government. we have to shrink the size of the government. of course, it started, it can a into light that these tea party and conservative grounds were targeted but the shoe could be on the foot the next time, a republican president in office and the irs could be targeting progressive groups. we can't stand for this and when the government -- >> but how would shrinking the

size and scope of government, because presumably, you're always going to have people in government that want to take the size way out, obviously, not the majority of folks have a handful of folks, whether it is government or the private sector decide to take the lazy way. >> but craig, the problem is the government has gotten so big and massive, it's like you can't get to the root of the problem. nobody wants to take accountability or responsibility for what happened. no one will own up that yesterday in the hearing, they were very evasive, did everything they could to give as little information as they could. the problem is that the government's so big, you don't know who to go to. if we shah rungt size of the government and put the power back in the states were it belongs we wouldn't be having this problem. and it's something that should concern every american. >> smaller government equals less scandal is that the pumper sticker? >> you definitely -- i can't say that it's less scandal but you have a better chance of getting to the root of the problem when it's not so massive and you can't find out any information.

that's the -- what the real problem is here and it's this culture of corruption and it's not just the irs. we have been finding out that this has been going on in the epa. i mean, there's -- we have got to get rid of this culture of corruption and every person should you can concerned about this, because if the irs was targeting or they were targeting us for political purposes, i mean, that's violation of our first amendment rights. >> with de we don't know whether they were targeting groups like yours for political purposes yet. >> craig. >> i think that's something that's got lost. ing a difference between saying a government worker looking for members of the tea party that singled them out because they hate their poll toy, a government work here had 70,000 applications and lot easier to sift through the 70,000 applications by using keywords? i think a difference between malicious and lazy. >> but there was not keywords such as progressive and -- but this is the thing them the

bigger issue here is this agency, irs, collects our money, why they have the power they have. they are going to be in charge of our health care? if they can go out and target our groups, whatever reason, the conservative groups do not have their non-profit status but yet other progressive groups their status was ex-sped indicted. president obama's brother, his status was expedited and granted in 32 days. my concern is this, are they eventually going to have the power to deny us health care? >> amier, you do that sometimes, you will say things that make sense and all of a sudden, you throw in something at the end that sounds completely ridiculous. >> the whole thing is this irs thing is completely ridiculous. who would ever have thought this would have happened? >> who can draw a connection between what happened in the irs and the health care? >> the irs is responsible for the implementation of health care. >> they are not responsible for the implementation of health care.

health and human service. >> i'm sorry, obama care. >> but that's -- that's my point. >> how can you say they are not? they are. >> they are not solely responsible for the implementation of obama care, for you to say that is wrong and you know it's wrong. you know it's not true. it is not wrong. lois learner, she went and she made this statement last week at the bar association meeting in washington, d.c. now we find out the woman that has been over all the non-profit area of the irs is now in charge of implementing obama care. >> she is no in the charge of implementing obama care? >> not in charge? oh, my gosh. >> she is not in charge of implementing obama care. you knee is not true. >> she absolutely s the fact of the matter is the irs is gonna have a part of obama care. >> okay that's accurate, what you said right there, that is accurate. but to say you're going to have a part, to be a part of implementation and to say your nee charge, those are two very big -- big -- different things. >> no, they are responsible for the implementation of obama

care. the point -- this is the point though. why should the irs have anything to do with obama care? i mean, it's not a play on words? why should had he have any part of it? that is -- they already have a class action lawsuit against them for accessing medical records that they shouldn't have accessed of 10 million people. >> we are going to have to stop there i do wish that i had, you know, 15 or 20 minutes -- more minutes to spend with you. >> certainly. >> amy kremer, thank you so much. always enjoy having you on. >> off great day i great weekend. >> amy krerm, tea party express. investigators are on the scene right now in connecticut after two commuter trains packed with passengers collided during yesterday's evening rush. >> we are pretty shaken up, theds to smash they had to smash a window for us to get out. >> connecticut's governor updated the situation a short time ago. [ male announcer ] it's simple physics...

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the damage is absolutely staggering. ribbons of the sides of cars are torn away like ribbons of cloth. tons of metal tossed around like toy things. >> connecticut senator richard blumenthal there giving an update on friday's commuter train crash. he says he was surprise there had were actually more injuries about 70 people were hospitalized, three of them are in critical condition. at least that was the case at last check. we are also told that federal investigators have arrived on the scene. nbc's michelle franzen is also on the scene for us in bridge port, connecticut. hey there michelle. what's the latest? >> reporter: latest is that the ntsb officials, craig, continue to work those two trains, especially the front part that really took the brunt of this impact when the derailment took place at the height of that commute time last night. you can see the pictures from earlier when -- of that scene

when the chaotic moments when rescue crews were trying to get the passengers on board. each train, one traveling eastbound, one westbound, had -- one had 300 passengers, the other 400 passengers, about 60 in all, as you message ntioned, reports of injury, they were treated at the hospital and released. officials saying they feel that they were very fortunate that more people weren't injured and that no one was killed in this. so, what will the ntsb be looking for? when they get on scene, they map out the whole entire thing, not ruling anything out. they are look at mechanical issues. they will be interviewing witnesses. they will be checking with the data recorders that they said that were on boarder and they have already sent back preliminary data to washington, d.c. to be analyze there had, so they will be able to glean some information from that but they will also be checking just the physical area around these tracks. there was construction that was going on here and they had talked about how this is a very

narrow passage. usually, there are four train tracks with that construction under way, they were down to two. of course, now they are down to none in this area between bridgeport and south norwalk. that's going to impact commuters come monday. no word yet on when these trains will be moved or repairs will be finished on these tracks. so a lot of unknown yet. >> nbc's michelle franzen for must bridge port, connecticut. thanks to you. also want to show you this. first lady michelle obama is at martin luther king academic magnet high school for health sciences and engineering, in nashville, tennessee. she is not only going to be giving the commencement address there but also going to be handing out diplomas to every graduate as well. michelle obama, we are told just a few seconds ago, is thanking some of the teachers there. you may remember just yesterday, less than 24 hours ago, michelle obama was in bowie, maryland, doing pretty much the same

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stay a little closer to home but make no mistake about it, with $600 million on the line, people are coming out, doing a brisk business, the odds, got to be honest with you, not that great 1 in 175 million. you know, craig, you have a better chance getting elected president of the united states, becoming an nba player, winning an oscar, dating a supermodel, it's just not that good, but that's not going to stop people. >> no, 1 in 175 million? are you at that little shop down at the end of nebraska, down by the circle, is that where you are? >> reporter: of course, the tenley minimart. >> the tenley minimart. >> we have made this place famous. >> we will come back to you. don't forget to get your ticket. a quick look at other stories making news on a saturday afternoon. south korean officials say north korea has fired three short-range missiles into its eastern waters today. the south koreans say the missile launches are not

uncommon but at this point, they are not sure if they were part of a test or training exercise. the united nations imposed stricter sanctions in north korea earlier this year when that country launched another nuclear test. some amazing images out of new jersey, check this out. a u.s. airways plane belly lands at newark airport early this morning. fortunately, m lly mir rack u fortunately, mir rack cuiouioui miraculously, no one was hurt. the kentucky derby winner is racial again today in the preakness stakes. that, of course, the second race in the triple crown series. we haven't had a triple crown winner since 1978. good plus, luck, ofrnlt the war room now, quite a week for the white house, more questions raised over the obama administration's handling over

benghazi. the justice department's seizing the phone records from from the associated appreciation the irs targeting conservative groups for extra scrutiny as well. take you to the war room right now you karen finney, former dnc communications director but most notably, an msnbc analyst and soon to be a neighbor here on the weekend that show set is to get started in a few weeks. >> con ranlg l >> congratulations, karen. >> sucking up to be on the show. karen, let me start with you. is that one of the situations where folks in the media, writers, pun dirt, analyst, real and imagined, have really blown a lot of this out of proportion, or is this a legitimate scandal, the irs? >> well, you know, i think what we learned yesterday is i'm not sure we know that there was actual malice on the part of the people who were, you know, target egg. that was sort of the point of the discussion yesterday and the

hearings that target sort of implies a degree of mall lass, where it could have just been really stupid bone-headed idea that these guys thought, hey, we will just bunch these together and this is a more efficient way to do our work. at this point, we don't know the answer to that question and i do -- i think it certainly plays into a lot of our worst fear about the irs. we have seen the irs do this before, not just with republican conservative groups but groups like the naacp, we know this happened before and i think that mean there is ought to be a broader investigation, if there is a pattern and even if that means that people aren't properly trained in how to better, you know, assess their work, then that's something that needs to happen. >> joe, this is what peggy noonan wrote in the "wall street journal," no ordinary scandal. "these irs actions took place in the years leading up to the 2012 elections. they constitute the use of governmental power to intrude on the privacy and shackle the

political freedom of american citizens. the purpose, obviously, was to overwhelm and intimidate to kill the opposition, question by question, and audit by audodaud overstatement there? >> peggy noonson a great writer and respected by many. >> that doesn't answer my question, joe. >> i would say this is not a scandal to me. i think an investigation is certainly worthy. i think the president did the right thing. the president shared, on behalf of the american people, his outrage and anger at what happened, said it should not have happened and took the right steps, he got rid of people right away and people have to answer for what they did. they have to be held accountable for what they did. think those are all the right things. >> karen, what do you make of how the white house has handled these situations so far? would you have done anything differently? >> you know, i might have done a couple of things differently. i think one of the most interesting things is at the end of the week, we know, you know, a broader set of facts.

someone may have changed the words around to make it seem worse than it was whereas the e-mails themselves seemed to reinforce everything the white house has been saying all along, i think part of the nature of all of this is, you know, this -- inside washington, there's such a leap to try to find, you know, what's the next watergate and people want to make their careers instead of saying let's look at the facts. let's look at what happened. but then also, you know, something like benghazi, we still haven't talked about what is really at issue here is how do we make sure there is adequate security for the men and women that put their lives on the line for embassies around the world. that's what we should be focused on. >> the president this week said the same thing, his call on congress to appropriate more funding for that. joe, here's what the irs scandal, so-called scandal, however you want to dub it, it

would seem to me the lasting legacy for this one might very well be that folks in this country, and there are a lot of them, already predisposed to think the government is out to get them, that those -- this is that nugget of information that they will use for 20 years. they will say do you remember back in 2013, the irs admitted -- this would seem to be the lasting legacy. this will be, for every conspiracy theorist out there, this is their proof. >> some people will do that i don't think it will have a lasting stain on president obama. i think for people who have always thought that the irs was out to get people that for some people this will say i told you so. >> sure. >> but this is a short story. i don't think this is a long lesson. i think the irs fixes it problem. i think we all continue to move forward. >> you know, craig, can i just add though, i do think that the bigger issue here is citizens united and the fact that the irs was not adequately prepared to

handle what clearly was an influx. if anything, we ought to go back and take a look at citizens united and sort of the decision around the -- you know, which groups qualify for which status because i think that's clearly where he is there a huge mess. >> this is why karen has her own show. see the thought that goes into that. >> do you want to lobby her directly for a spot? >> karen, do you have my number? >> i got you, joe. i got you covered. >> karen finney, msnbc analyst and broadcast host as well now and joe watkins, former aide to president gorge hw bush and all-around nice guy. good to sue you see you back here soon. >> thanks. coming up, our favorite part of the broadcast, week in, week out. what's the big idea? this one is all about keeping girls and young women in school. why? well, simply to change the world. plus, an interesting headline from "u.s. news & world

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ink from chase. so you can. of particular concern to me is the plight of women and girls who comprise the majority of the world's unhealthy, unschooled, unfed and unpaid. if half the world's population remains vulnerable to economic, political, legal and social marginalization, our hope of advancing democracy and prosperity is in serious jeopardy. >> investing in women's education to break the cycle of poverty that is today's big idea. the non-profit, she's the first, takes a frisch approach to that very idea by raising money to sponsor girls who in develop countries. founded by tammy tivitz in 2009

when she was just 23. today, she's the first is in ten countries on four couldn't nents and has sponsored more than 300 girls. tammy tibbits, founder and president of she's the first is here in studio with us today. good to see you. >> thank you, delighted to be here. >> thank you so much for coming n i understand she's the first, it started out, i think we have video here, youtube video, but it started out as an idea and this particular youtube video, how did your organization grow from just one video to become the successful movement that it has become? >> yeah, well, social media is such a powerful vehicle for spreading ideas and our big idea was that when you send a girl to school, poverty stops with her. and there are 66 million girls out of school around the world and we can all doing? and play a small part to put her in the classroom and send her on a journey to follow her dreams and raise her community up. >> how do you find the young women? >> we partner with ten amazing organizations around the world and they work with the

communities to find girl us in need who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford their education. >> and why women? why young women versus young men? urge in developing nations where we work there is a huge gender gap, especially when you luke at adolescent girls they go past primary school, their pressure to drop out to take jobs to support their families. >> can you tell me about one of the girls you have sponsored that inspired you you perhaps? >> one of our girls, happiness -- >> that's her name? >> yes. happiness. she graduated from our partner program in tanzania recent labor day now she is actually in college studying to be a pharmacist so that she can keep the people around her healthy. >> 300 young ladies so far. >> mm-hmm. >> they have gone to all sorts of colleges and universities or certain college he is and universities that you typically send them to? >> we sponsor girls in primary and secondary school the goal is that they will complete

secondary school and find a job or go on to college. >> in 2000, eight days, raised $2,000, sponsored 48 girl buys selling cupcakes? >> yes. >> how do the cupcakes fit into she is the first? >> the cupcakes are probably our most popular fund-raising campaign, actually all started with tie dye cupcake, university of north dame dorm room and goes to tell you how you can sell a cupcake, $1 or $2, before you know it, everyone in the country is doing that raised $60,000 in the span of a week to send hundreds of girls to school. >> what is next for the organization? what's the next step? >> we have an expansive network of campus chapters across the u.s., high schools, college he is and universities so we keep on growing and raising more funds and where i'm fascinated to see is how we can use technology to actually bridge communication with the girls that we sponsor. and i have actually brought a bunch of letters that came into us from uganda last week.

now, imagine if we could use technology and internet access so that studs unts in uganda, tanzania, guatemala and peru could talk with the young girls and the men here in the u.s. >> this is cool. >> so passionate about making sure that they have the same opportunities in life that we were all born with. >> this is cool this is cool. thank you so much for coming in and sharing this week's big idea. website? >> she's the first.org, twitter, she's the first, space facebook, we are everywhere on social media. >> we will put it out for you again today as well. and on behalf of the crew, thanks so much for the cupcakes as well. you made a lot of friends when you came into the studio and the control room, i have been told as well. you made a lot of friends coming in with sweets. so thanks to you, tammy tab bets, president and founder of she's the first. it's this week's big idea. up next, what's the president's really rough week? what is it going to mean perhaps for 2016 now that one-third of

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with a live look at michelle obama, martin luther king jr., nashville, tennessee, the first lady there, as you can see, handing out some diplomas to lots of excited high school graduates who are headed off to various college he is and universities. 'tis the season. during a tea party news conference on capitol hill this week, michele bachmann dropped the i-word, impeachment. she is actually not the first republican to do so one-third of congressional committees are now investigating the president's administration for one reason or another, midterms next year and 2016 looming what scandals, real

and imagined what those scandals might mean for the gop going forward. back with me, maeve reston "the new york times," elise vie beck, staff writer for the hill. anyone on the hill talking seriously bim peachment? had -- sear oriously of impeach? >> republicans are hoping to make as much hay as they can. american people will have trouble sorting out what is going on and that will be one of the challenges for the gop, make sure their message that the white house is not only inept but could be corrupt seeps down to the american people. >> maivgs let's talk about the american people for a second here.eve, let's talk about the american people for a second here. benghazi, ap, associated press, phone records, john q. six pack

sitting in nebraska, how much are they closely following the scandals that obsessed the news media the past week? >> well, i think what they probably know is that president obama's having a really, really bad week. >> that's easy to understand. >> as far as we know, digging down on the details, that's harder to tell. i think that it's easy to get people fired up about the irs 'cause everyone hates the irs, people maybe paying a little more attention to that, as you mentioned, but as far as, you know, digging down deep on benghazi and the ap subpoenas, that's really why republicans are trying to get out there and hammer this, hammer sort of the bigger point that they are making, which is that? an administration is has had a culture of coverups, that's the allegation they are making and i think they are really just trying to get the american public to focus on that so they can roll into 2014 with that as their argument. >> basically using that to help

run out the clock, so to speak? >> right. >> is he tore rand paul, a lot of 2016 buzz, of course, among those at this week's tea party newser on the hill. is paul, is he the gopper who will beat this drop the loudest, if not until 2016, at least until the midterms? >> i think we are going to see a lot of people beating that drum. i know that we saw bobby jindal make a speech last nate, he was making similar allegations against the administration but certainly, rand paul is someone that we are keeping a close eye on. we were enjoying his filibuster the other month. that was a very interesting sort of political play for him. i know the base really likes him. he doesn't carry the same baggage that his father did in certain ways and so, i think we will have to see what comes of rand paul but issues he is not going to let go of, not by a long shot h >> mentioned bobby jindal, giving a speech in virginia later today. we have got an excerpt from that speech. he is going to say among other things, "when you grow

government this big, these kinds of scandals are inevitable and he bears responsibility for that." he being, of course, president obama. at what point -- at what point do republicans run thie in the overplaying their hand, maeve reston? >> some are being cautious about that. bobby jindal today is going to use his bully pulpit as the head of the republican governors association to call for throwing irs officials into the slammer. you saw rand paul get out in front in iowa on benghazi and then also this week on the irs. so i think the potential presidential candidates can get out there and beat the drum. as far as republicans on the hill, they have to be more cautious. obviously, we saw what happened during the clinton years where there was a bit too much of an overreach and then a backlash and so we will see republicans trying to balance that as you know, issa this week tried to be

somewhat neutral even though he is heading a lot of these investigations so we will see where that goes. >> maeve reston of the l.a. times, elise viebeck of the hill, enjoy the rest of your weekend. court watch, much of this wouldn't has been fixated on two cases, o.j. and jodi arias. and chuck hagel has a plan to stop military sex assaults while acknowledging the problem has he is skix escalated beyond pentagon's control. new information on the deficit and the president's budget. we bet you don't even know these things. we will tell you about them, next. this is msnbc, the place for politics. [ agent smith ] i've found software that intrigues me. it appears it's an agent of good. ♪

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start using the i-word. >> there isn't a weekend that hasn't gone by that someone says too me, michelle what in the world are you-all waiting for in congress? why aren't you impeaching the president? >> are things really as bad as some of the president's fiercest critics allege? we will talk about that plus you can the angelina effect a lot of people are asking questions after angelina jolie reveals she got a preventive double-mastectomy, my colleague who has don't same thing and an expert on what all women should know. plus -- >> travis was our strength. our contact beacon of hope. our motivation. >> two big cases capturing the nation's attention. will she joint other 61 women on death row. and o.j. ohm, was his lawyer so bad the juice deserves a new trial from the kidnapping and robbery conviction from 2008? those stories in a moment.

first the outrage over the irs matter is certainly not just on one side of the aisle. lynn sweet is the washington bureau chief of the chicago sun time, ed o'keefe, congressional reporter for the "washington post." good to sue both. lynn, let me start with you, the senate finance committee, headed by democrat max baucus will be holding hearings on the matter next week at yesterday's ways and means committee hearing, congressman charlie rangel said theism rs scandal contributes to a lack of government credibility. >> people are losing confidence in our government and i hope that you feel the same sense to find out what caused this, how it could happen and help us restore the confidence that americans should have in their government. >> so lynn, the irs, everyone hates the irs, an easy target, account president expect the full support of his base if the

irs scandal starts to widen? >> well, yes, because the base has concerns with issues more than irs malfeasance. immigration, gun control, budget issue, the future of medicare and social security that's what the base is concerned about not whether or not the irs did or no did not. something not it should be ignored but krark the scandals have the impact on the aof the president to be as effective he's wants to be up on capitol hill so there is fallout from the irs scandal. >> ed, have we state-of-the-arted to see this yet on the hill? started to see how any of these so-called scan dars, started to affect the president's ability to govern? >> no we can legislate, work on immigrationreform, work on

finding a budget deal in the coming months and uphold our constitutional responsibility to oversee what's going on in the executive branch and both house speaker john boehner said that that's the plan. you heard senators say that you know lindsey graham, for example, republican, part of that republican group trying to get immigration done said, no, you know, i'm his biggest critic when it comes to the benghazi situation, for example, but i really want to work with him on immigration, same for john mccain, he went to the white house this week, a meeting with the president about immigration but then comes up to capitol hill and talks to us and says he is still concerned about that situation. and i would point out, you know, the irs and congress probably flirting for last place in the who do you trust question. there is some irony in charlie rangel, who has had his own tax-related scandals, sitting there and telling the former commissioner of the irs, you know, you're messing up people's faith in government when he, himself, had some questions in recent years. he has been exonerated but there's a big irony and unpopular lawmakers trying to beat up on the next least unpopular person in washington.

>> the president in the second term has already seen some push back from progressive supporters, you know, he was criticized for agreeing to cut social security benefiteds, also has seen some criticism over the state department's refusal so far to sort of take a position on the controversial keystone pipeline. is the white house at all, ed, starting to feel pounded on by those that it once counted on for support? >> not yet because, for example, you're mentioning the changes to social security, chained cpi, naught in the budget request, but no movement on capitol hill to get that done and there's some question about whether they ever will be able to get that done. on keystone, look, everything subjects that he is headed toward a decision that will athrough to happen and an environmentalist might have to swallow hard on that at the same time that they have those concerns, remember the president is spending a good chunk of time this year, the year before elections, raising money for house democrats and for senate democrats and he has made clear he is going to do everything

toke help them get relooked next year, part is helping raise money when in years past he didn't do that >> lynn sweet, "chicago sun-times," ed o'keefe from the "washington post," big thanks to both of you. >> see you later. top pentagon leaders acknowledge this week just how bad the sexual assault problem in the military has actually become. defense secretary chuck hagel said friday the military will do whatever needs to be done to handle the crisis. >> we are looking at everything, we are listening to victims carefully, closely, we are not taking anything off the table and we want to understand all that's best. >> new york democrat congresswoman louise slaughter joins me live now from washington, d.c. congresswoman, good to see you. >> good to see you, craig. thank you for having me. >> we want to dying in this thing a little bit. >> yes. >> you you have been an advocate for victims' members of the military who have been sexually

abused, the problem, as we have been learning, the problem is extreme, to say the least. last year alone there were 26,000 incidents, more than 1700 people were charged, just 238 of those folks were convicted. what's happening in the u.s. military? >> i think it's the culture, craig, and you're right, i have been working on this for 20 years, i don't know if we are going to be able to solve it i'm somewhat comforted by legislation i was able to get something in few years ago called force protection may be why more people are willing to report it and why the reports have gone up. one of the things the culture hurricane the fraternalism about it you remember the colonel arrested in arlington two weeks ago in the parking lot? >> yeah. >> he -- you remember his, colonel wilkerson, accused of

raping a woman who was a guest in his home, he was convicted by a jury and a general franklin overturned that verdict? general franklin commanded both of those lieutenant colonels. i'm very interested in finding out what was the culture of that unit in which they served. one thing that i know is not working is punishment. if we had a few lieutenant colonel hand generals going to jail for doing it as perpetrator are i think that would go a long way in really making a case. >> what about this idea of ta taking the punishment and taking the process, taking it outside the chain of command? would that be something that would help? >> i think secretary hagel's already taken a step for that and i think he is really intent on doing something about this believe me, over the years, i have had lots of generals trailsing through my office, usually with a woman, lieutenant colonel in tow, telling any is going to be okay. he is taking it much more

seriously, i think, than many other people have in the past, exception of leon panetta, did the same thing. seeing some difference. i believe as more women rise in the ranks, more women generals are in the room, more women are making those decisions, there will be more respect for women because we know that these sexual assaults are a lack of respect and power and until we can change that part of the culture, and i don't want to leave out men, craig. we always talk about women. >> sure. >> there are so many more men in the military, the figures may -- the percentage may be smaller, the number is far greater. and we have to worry about them. if i could just say one thing that is important, i have watched this over the years, seen the men go free, people say you don't want to ruin that young man's career, i have watched victims destroyed, literally destroyed, their careers are gone, hopes are gone, they think it's their fault, it is dreadful what has happened to the people victims of this military assault. >> you know, you said something

at the beginning of our interview, the fact that you don't know if we're ever going to be able to do something about this >> right. >> that -- that's disconcerting, to say the least. >> it is indeed. you know the recruiter scandal going on forever. and they now have found recruiters that drove one young recruit into prostitution, for goodness sakes, nobody has much to say over those recruiters. i know, an all-volunteer military now, spent a lot of time getting people in, they take anybody and i spend time trying to get people who are physically or mentally unfit out. >> congressman louise slaughter, congresswoman i always appreciate your incite. thank you for your time. >> thank you, craig, i appreciate your having me here. thank you. let's go back to the irs mess for just a second. friday again, an ugly day, to say the least, for the former head of that's, steve miller. he took a shellacking from congress yesterday for just about four hours. steve miller, who stepped down at the request of the white

house this week, he tried to apologize for the agency's alleged targeting of conservative groups. take a listen. >> first and foremost, as acting commissioner, i want to apologize on behalf of the internal revenue service for the mistakes that we made and the poor service we provided. the affected organizations ant american public deserve better, partisanship or even the perception of partisanship has no place at the irs. >> congressman patrick meehan is co-sponsoring legislation aimed at preventing the irs from discriminating against taxpayers for their political beliefs. he joins me live now. congressman, thank you for your time. it's good to see you. >> hey, great to be with you, craig, thank you. >> tell me about this legislation and also how this legislation would be different from laws and rules that you are already on the books. >> well, i think what we are trying to do is emphasize the fact that it would clearly prevent you from being able to use those kinds of political

philosophies as the basis for government actions, which is certainly what is suspected by many as having taken place in the irs scandal that is unfolding before us now. >> steve miller is going to be testifying before congress again next week. this time, before the house oversight question, which you sit on. what would you lake to hear there that you did not hear yesterday? >> i'm interested in finding more about -- we know what happened now and now we are beginning to appreciate that steve millers a testimony created contradictions about whether he had appropriately informed congress when asked about it. so the question next is who knows and the last question is who should have known? and to me, that's critical line of inquiry as well. i know there's a lot of people going to try to draw this into the administration and how deeply, if it can get tied into the administration, it opens up

another whole level of concern and inquiry, frankly, i look at it from the other side, having been part of the department of justice, oftentimes, you know, we always used to go by the theory you don't put the boss in a bad situation by not allowing them to understand what is going on. don't surprise them. and we have a situation. >> what do you make of this idea that the part of what happened here is just the sheer number of applications that the irs was -- had become inundated with as a result of citizens v united, some 70,000 applications for tax exempt status? what do you make of that? >> if i saw a distinction but what the concern is if you looked at just 501 c 4s and coming in in equal proportion, that those that were focused on, let's say progressive causes, were being weeded out at the same matter as those for conservative causes and what it payers the facts show is a

disproportion nat amount toward the conservative causes and few if anything on the progressive. both should have the ability to do this, but when you see the facts demonstrating a significant movement toward one and away from the other, that's going to be the thing that creates the, you know, where there's smoke, there's fire. >> congressman patrick meehan. congressman, thank you for your time, sir. >> great to be with you. thanks, craig. >> folks, you can be sure the irs story will be topic number one tomorrow morning on "meet the press." moderator david gregory's ex-exclusive guest will be mitch mcconnell and white house adviser dan pfeiffer. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." coming up, two big court cases playing out before our very eyes. >> they didn't give me the stuff, tough call the police. >> okay. >> and that's what i told everybody involved that if they don't give it to me, i'm gonna get the police in there. >> o.j. simpson due back in

court tuesday in his bid for a new trial on that 2008 kidnapping and robbery conviction. also, jodi arias, she now faces the death penalty. we will talk about that as well. this is msnbc. blan [ male announcer erica had a rough day. there was this and this. she got a parking ticket... ♪ and she forgot to pay her credit card bill on time. good thing she's got the citi simplicity card. it doesn't charge late fees or a penalty rate. ever. as in never ever. now about that parking ticket. [ grunting ] [ male announcer ] the citi simplicity card is the only card that never has late fees, a penalty rate, or an annual fee, ever. go to citi.com/simplicity to apply.

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i put every ounce of blood, sweat and soul into defending him. the idea that i didn't have mr. simpson's best interest at heart is insulting and be a subtle. >> that was yale galanterer, the former attorney for o.j. simpson, on the stand in las vegas yesterday. simpson is back in jail this saturday afternoon with days of testimony wrapped. o.j. simpson is arguing for a retrial based on the argument,

essentially the argument that galanter failed to effectively represent him back in 2008 when he was accused of stealing his own sports memorabilia from las vegas dealers. the judge has not set a date for the ruling yet but karen desociety see former defense attorney and prosecutor, wendy murphy is a former prosecutor. i wanted to bring you guys both in to talk about this and the jodi arias control. >> based on my conversations with mr. simpson the day after the event, he told me that did he ask alexander to bring guns. >> how damaging was galanter's testimony? >> ouch. talk about throwing attorney client privilege out the window.

very damaging. remember, krark the whole strategy here is i didn't know, i was just kind of there. >> o.j.'s bid for a retrial has been called a hail mary. from what you have seen so far, was his bid a long shot at best from the beginning? >> yeah. i mean, good football metaphor and almost never successful, because not only has he been found guilty by a jury but he has had his appeal, already had his regular what we call direct appeal and failed to win making that exact argument that this was my stuff, you can't be convicted of retrieving are the stuff you already own. the appellate court said no way. it's not uncommon after you lose your regular appeal to try a second bite at the apple, reframing stuff as ineffective assistance of counsel.

that said, had yale galanter taken the stand and said, he was right, i was terrible, if he had fallen on his sword, which i have seen. every once in a while, you see a lawyer in a case like this fall on his sword and say i could have done a better job, he is right, sometimes it's successful, i don't see that happening here and this is pretty ugly stuff watching this unfold in a courtroom where o.j.'s blaming his lawyer for his woes, who else is he going to blame? blamed everybody but himself for how many decades now? >> the two things that struck me about the hearing was galanter's presentation, general. he clearly felt like this was beneath him and prison has not been good to o.j. i mean, it's not -- some folks appear, i guess they work out a lot in jail. and o.j. has seen better days. let's switch gears. let's talk about the penalty phase in the jodi arias trial now. that resumes monday. there was a lot of attention given to that jailhouse interview that arias did where

she said she would prefer the death penalty to life in prize in. karen, what sort of an impact do you think that will have on her jury or do you think it will have an impact at all? >> technically, the jurors aren't supposed to be having newspapers or listening to any of the interviews if there is that could be a potential problem for the jurors and the judge in that particular case. i mean, craig, one of the problems here is that the death penalty being on the table in this case to begin with is really kind of -- supposed to be reserved for multiple murders and heinous crimes, the fact it is even on the table. every murderer is really very gruesome, the standard here, it was cruel? every murder in and of itself is cruel. odds are we will see what the jury does but you know, every murderer is pretty heinous and cruel and would not be surprising if they came back with the death penalty. >> what do you think? death penalty or life in prison for jodi arias? >> i'm not a fan, i would not vote for t not only did she stab

this guy 29 times, almost decapitate him, slice him ear tory but after he was dead, she shot him gratuitously in the face, then she lied about it bad enough, then she lied in front of the jury for three weeks and falsely accused travis of bag pedophile, all for her own strategic advantage didn't work and i think enraged the jury. some level, the fact that the jury is even more angry toward her because of how she functioned during the trial, i have think they are more predisposed to imposing the death penalty, punish her for being such a horrific sociopath, not only the nature of the crime but in how she presented herself. i think she could walk in and turn water into wine and they are going to find for the death penalty. >> you don't think the fact she's a woman in any way, shape or form going to play in this? >> depends how many women you have on the jury, right? most people are predisposed no to kill somebody, most people have religious convictions, no matter what religion you are, the elements of every religion

is thou shall not kill, doesn't have an exception for the government. people are predisposed not to kill people f it's on the table and somebody was murdered ant standard is beyond a reasonable doubt, whether it was cruel, well, murder is cruel. >> are there -- is it four, five him whim on the jury, wendy? >> there are four women currently on the jury. and yes, who she looks like and the fact she looks like a sweet little librarian has, i think, a bit of a dramatic advantage in the courtroom. however, you notice when she was talking about all the sex stuff, she was dressed kind of like a porn star. now she is dressed kind of like a mental parent, she is looking a little creepy. it is all about the theater. and they are not going to like her. not going to vote death because they don't like her or female, they are going to vote death because of what she did and how she functioned in the aftermath, especially all the lies in the courtroom to them, the jury. >> we are going to have to leave it there. karen desoto, wendy murphy, big thanks to you both. >> you bet. coming up, the one so-called

scandal in washington that did not get enough attention this week. i will share my thoughts on that. also, some developing news on that commuter train crash in connecticut. the latest from the scene in a live report. this is msnbc. [ jackie ] it's just so frustrating... ♪ the middle of this special moment and i need to run off to the bathroom. ♪ i'm fed up with always having to put my bladder's needs ahead of my daughter. ♪ so today, i'm finally talking to my doctor

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to help meet that need, here at devry university, we're offering $4 million dollars in tech scholarships for qualified new students. learn more at devry.edu. in the sea of so-called scandals this week, here is one that didn't get enough ink. the irs, it plays to worst fierce, the government out not to be trusted, the taxman has been evil incarnate. now they are all liberal activists too. with the release of the e-mails this week from the white house, reasonable people who read will start to slow the roll on benghazi, but the fact that the justice department this week acknowledge it had secretly got its grubby hands on two months worth of phone recordness belonging to the associated press should make you mad.

justice claimed it was part of an investigation into someone who leaked information to the ap about a terror plot in africa. attorney general eric holder insisted that the leak threatened lives but didn't elaborate, nor did the agency think prude prudent to get a judge involved and allow him or her to decide whether the threat to national security was significant enough to warrant a search. journalists who devote their professional lives to reporting on what our elected leaders doing and exposing government have a tough enough time getting foam talk to them, cultivating worthy sources is evensention to journalism. having a whistleblower or concerned citizen who talks to a journalist worry that he or she might get their cell phone records pored over by some government worker shouldn't just worry journalist, it should worry you as well. here's a thought. when the government of america engages in behavior that should be come man place in china, we should flail our arms about just

as wildly as we would when we discover some irs workers in cincinnati took the lazy way out. just a thought. take a look at this -- a rough landing for a plane in newark this morning. the full story on that straight ahead. what would you do with the half a billion dollars? the record breaking powerball drawing is tonight. did you get your ticket? [ phoebe ] stress sweat. it can happen any time, to anyone! [ female announcer ] stress sweat is different than ordinary sweat. it smells worse. get 4x the protection against stress sweat. introducing new secret clinical strength stress response scent. starts with ground beef, onions and peppers baked in a ketchup glaze with savory gravy and mashed russet potatoes.

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you have a better shot of being elected president of the united states than winning the lotto. but that's not stopping millions of americans from lining up for those powerball tickets today. the prize now stands at more than $600 million. it's the second largest lotto jackpot in u.s. history. and if no one wins tonight, it will be awfully close to $1 billion prize. nbc's brian mooar is in washington, d.c. following this story for us. brian, last time we checked in

with you, you said traffic was a little light. is that still the case? >> reporter: yeah it sort of comes and go, we have seen all kinds of people come in here today. you have seen this sort of pros who really know their thing when it comes to powerball. you have seen casual players, one gal who came in and said have you sold out of all the lottery tickets for today. they all have one thing, actually, a couple things in common. one of them is that they will all apparently give this money away to charity, very good money, all of them. the other thing is the incredibly, insanely steep odds. 175 million to 1. you have a better chance of getting hit by lightning a couple of times, getting a couple of back-to-back holes in one, of becoming the pope or an oscar-winning actress. craig, let's put this in msnbc political terms. you have a better chance of seeing john boehner and nancy pelosi dancing the macarena at the kennedy center than winning this jackpot today, but that's not stopping people from coming

here and plunking down two bucks for a dream. i'm one of him. >> you bought your ticket? did you go automatic or have special numbers? >> i'm old school, man, guy automatic. >> you and me both. >> lazy. but look, this one store here has sold thousands and thousands of tickets, probably close to 10,000 just since 6 this morning so your chance of winning even in this store, not that good. >> got ton -- at least probably been a for small business as well, folks going in, presumably buy something else if they get lottery tickets. brian mooar, if i don't see you after tonight, it was good to know you good working with you. here is a quick look at some of the other top stories making news right now. in fairfield, connecticut, federal investigators are gathering evidence, they are looking into last night's crash between two commuter trains, 60 people were hurt. five of them critically. today, connecticut governor dan malloy said there is "no reason to think it was anything other than an accident but that has to

be explored." take a look at this u.s. airways plane belly landed at newark international airport early this morning. according to the airline, no one was hurt there. that plane was coming in from philadelphia. 31 passengers and three crew members were on board at the time. well, news of angelina jolie's decision to undergo a double mastectomy has instantly increased awareness of hereditary forms of cancer. everyone has the brca 1 and 2 genes but individuals whose genes have mutations can be at a much higher risk for developing breast and ovarian cancer. in her "new york times" op ed, is jolie wrote "i wanted to write this to tell other women to have the decision to have a mastectomy was not easy but it is one i am very happy that i made. my chances of developing breast cancer have developed from 87% to under 5%.

i can tell my children that they don't need to fear they will lose me to breast cancer." dr. susan dam check is an oncologist, the executive director of the basser research center for brca at the university of pennsylvania. sue friedman, founder of force, the founder of force, which spreads aware barns breast and ovarian cancer and our own alley weinberg, an nbc news producer who underwent the same procedure as jolie at the age of 21. and ali, let me start with you, 'cause again, you said that you went through this procedure, you found out at 20 that you had the mutation, you waited a year to have that mastectomy and then reconstruction a few months later. not how most college kids spend their spring break i would imagine. what convinced you to do it? >> what convince node get the procedure done is just that i didn't want this black cloud of breast cancer hanging over my head for the foreseeable future.

i wanted to take care of this and i knew that i had a sort of not great genetic hand that had been dealt to me when it comes to breast and ovarian cancer and i wanted to be able to do whatever i could to get rid of that as soon as possible. >> what was that -- what was that experience like for you as a young woman? >> it was a bit of a challenge just to first make that decision. but i talked to one doctor who really told me that this was a procedure that was becoming increasingly popular and common with young women around my able who had this genetic mutation, so, my concerns were really s s assuaged by the fact there were women doing this the progression that had been made in the reconstruction process are just so incredible. so, my concerns about any cosmetic problems were completely assuaged and i couldn't be happier. >> dr. dam check, off the bat,

is this gene mutation something that is tested for when women go for regular mammograms? >> no, it's not. and nor should it be. the gene mutations are very uncommon in the general population but there are situations where it's much more common to have the gene nutations, so women diagnosed with breast cancer under age 50, women with a personal history of ovarian cancer, men with breast breast cancer, women who have a strong history of breast and ovarian cancer, multiple cases of breast cancer, these are women this should be considering counseling and testing to figure out their best management strategies. >> sue in that op ed piece in the times we have been talking about, angelina jolie, she wrote about the need for getting women more access to this test. she writes, "it has got to be a priority to ensure that more women can access gene test and life-saving preventive treatment the cost of testing at more than

$3,000 in the united states remains an obstacle for many women." is this something, sue, that's covered by insurance and other ways for women to find out if they have this gene? >> so that's really excellent question and many insurances do pay, as dr. dam check noted that there are certain red flags or things that you look for in a parent's personal history and family history that indicate that they may benefit from genetic counsel egg and testing. in most cases, insurance will cover it, but it's a little bit of a patch work around the laws about -- about the -- for the affordable care act and what's could have remembered a little bit of a patch work and very confusion there are other ways for people to access testing, if they are uninsured or underinsured and that's part of what forced facing our risk does is help navigate people to those resources there are no national resources that help people get access to testing or preventive

services overall but we're oftentimes able to navigate people to local resources or to a genetics expert who can then navigate them to the resources that will help them. >> dr. dam check, once a woman has been tested for these genes, once she has been tested once and say she comes up negative for the mutation, would there be any reason for her to go back and get tested again later down the line? >> that's great question. your genes that you're born with don't change over the course of your lifetime, however, genetic testing techniques change. so for instance, women who have undergone genetic testing for brsa 1 and brsa 2 prior to 2006 had a certain type of genetic testing that does pick up the vast majority of mute ache, it however, in, which an additional test was added which picks up a few more. so, people who were tested before 2006 can talk to the individuals who ordered their test and ask if this additional test would be right for them h

>> dr. dam check, quickly, talk to me about how or maybe even why breast cancer and ovarian cancer are so closely connected. >> well, it's a great question and i really wish that i had a good answer for you. every cell in a person's body has one of these gene mutation and one normal copy of the gene. and it's only in the cells were the second copy is lost where you now have two bad copies that turn into cancer. and why this is preferentialally breast and ovarian cancer we don't really know. we know there are other risks, prostate cancer, pancreatic cancer but dominated by breast and ovarian risk and have a need to understand the basic biology to understand why that happens. >> ally, you are based in nbc's d.c. bureau, everywhere for us, just got back from covering mark sanford's congressional race in north carolina, christmas last year covering the president in hawaii. how different do you think your life would be had you not

undergone the procedure you did? >> i would be constantly thinking about is this the day that i'm gonna wake up with breast cancer and i think that's one of the most important parts about getting -- looking into getting this surgery, if you do have this genetic mutation, is the way i feel having done it is i can just get on with my life. it really hasn't changed that much for me. it's really just allowed me to go and do these things that i've been able to do in my career around not have to worry about apple i going to wake up with breast cancer and down the line, i will act accordingly with my risk for ovarian cancer around not have to worry about that. it's just a way to lift up any uncertainty and go about your life. >> dr. susan dam check, oncologist at the university of pennsylvania's abrahamson center, sue freedman the founder of force which spreads awareness about breast and ovarian cancer and nbc news producer ali weinberg, who found that mutation, who took action, a big

thanks to all of you. thank you so much. >> thank you for having us. >> part of our conversation. >> thank you. >> thank you. coming up, we will flash way back, way, way back, 1896, that monumental supreme court decision, plessy v ferguson. also, the good news this week that got lost in the shuffle of scandal, new information on the deficit and president obama's budget. this is msnbc. [ female announcer ] doctors trust calcium plus vitamin d to support strong bones. and the brand most recommended by... my doctor. my gynecologist. my pharmacist. citracal. citracal. [ female announcer ] you trust your doctor. doctors trust citracal. [ female announcer ] you trust your doctor. when ouwe got a subaru.s born, it's where she said her first word. (little girl) no! saw her first day of school. (little girl) bye bye! made a best friend forever. the back seat of my subaru is where she grew up.

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with the innovating and the transforming and the revolutionizing. it's enough to make you forget that you're flying five hundred miles an hour on a chair that just became a bed. you see, we're doing some changing of our own. ah, we can talk about it later. we're putting the wonder back into air travel, one innovation at a time. the new american is arriving. time for the flashback this one goes way back, on this day in 1896, the u.s. supreme court made a monumental decision. they declared that racial segregation laws were constitutional. the case, plessy v ferguson. the court found that separate black and white facilities were lawful as long as they were "separate but equal." it would take nearly six decades, 58 years, before the

supreme court would overturn that ruling in the case of brown versus the board of education on may 17, 1954, having just won the case, lead lawyer, thurgood marshall, said this -- >> we do believe that this decision in itself will encourage the people to take further steps without litigation in many areas. and that's what i think it is important, 4-5. >> thurgood mar that will schaal knew that ruling, segregation is unconstitutional is just the beginning it would take another ten years before lyndon johnson would sign the voting rights act and a year late, the civil rights act. now, let's flashback to this day in 1980 when washington state's mount st. helens erupted and wreaked havoc on the surrounding area. >> as mount st. helens erupted, a plume of ash shot more than ten miles into the air, last night, when it began to quiet down, 1200 to 2600 feet of the

crater at one spot was gone. the volcano's power was awesome. massive mud flows pushed down the mountain, sweeping down trees, even houses, sending them down the river. the national guard flew in helicopters to rescue people trapped in the valley, most of whom left pets and all of their belongings behind. >> i had to leave my dogs behind. >> they didn't think it was going to be this bad. >> the intense heat wave with the first shock killed at least seven people and severely burned two loggers. authorities doubt anyone else on the mountain could have survived. >> the eruption destroyed more than 200 houses, 27 brings and miles of rail ways and highways. it also killed a total of 57 people. it was the most deadly and economically devastating volcano erun us in u.s. history.

another record week on wall street, folks. plus, news that the budget deficit is falling faster, that's right, faster than expected. the news you may have missed this week. this is msnbc. thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions...

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completely lost in the rapid fire news that was the scandal sector this week was goodness from the economic sector. stocks rallied for a fourth straight week, some indexes to record highs. that wasn't the only positive economic news that was lost in translation this week either. there was also this, news that the deficit had dropped farther than expected, father and faster. that coming from a report released by the nonpartisan congressional budget office this week. ed 0 feoff swb congressional reporter for the washington post. len, the cbo, the only

nonpartisan group left in washington, d.c. for the most part predicts that the deficit will fall. why is this all to have good economic news getting the attention that bad economic news would no doubt get. >> it has to be a man bite dog story. it is bad in our business always getting more attention. an sbesing note, the more money we save we we save money on reduced interest payments as money that the nation owes goes down so you save two ways on this. i think this particular week has been so overwhelmingly challenging 0 be bam ma white house. the last few reports have been upbeat. this continues the trajectory. it would have had to have been a lot more dramatic to overwhelm one of the worst weeks of the

obama administration. >> also coming out of the budget report this week, if enacted the president's budget would cut more than a trillion dollars from the government's budgets. with all that's happening hasn't this budget been forgotten about disregarded by those on the hill. >> both the house and senate budget committees have pass and enboth chambers have passed their versions. the senate would like to get together where the two par is meet. democrats would like to get that process started. you know, the fact that these numbers are looking better does make things a little more dpiflt for republicans who are still seeking bigger government spending cuts. when they see these numbers it makes it more difficult to sell the possibility of doing that.

we'll have some disgreemt over raising the debt cleelg. there will have to be some spending cuts tied to that which would drive the deaf sets and the debt even lower and get it closer to zero. >> lynn, ed just alluded to it that the government is going to be able to avoid reaching its borrowing limit until shortly after labor day. congress voted earlier the suspend the debt limit through may 18. they have measured to keep us from hitting it a few months more. could that lead to more inaction on the hill? >> abso absolutely. there's nothing that congress does better than kick the can down the road. the parallelism gets too close to the 2014 election season. that the good news is we're doing better economically but not good enough not to have to confront the debt ceiling problem at some time.

>> lynn sweet, ed 0 keefe. >> in the next hour a bipartisan congressman introducing legislation in response to the justice department's see sure of ap phone records. we're going to talk to a democrat congressman. also mitt romney stopped by the tonight show and mitt got some laughs. we're going to play that for you next. ♪ [ male announcer ] from the way the bristles move to the way they clean, once you try an oral-b deep sweep power brush, you'll never go back to a regular manual brush. its three cleaning zones with dynamic power bristles reach between teeth with more brush movements to remove up to 100% more plaque than a regular manual brush. and even 76% more plaque than sonicare flexcare in hard to reach areas. oral-b deep sweep 5000 power brush. life opens up when you do.

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i wish w we could lie e here forevever. i wish thihis test dririve was , so we e could headad back to thehe dealershihip. [ [ male annououncer ] it's p practicallyly yours. testst dri! bubut we stillll need your s signature.. vovolkswagen s sign then d drie is back.k. and d it's neverer been easisir to get a j jetta. that's t the power of german n engineerining. get $0 dowown, $0 due at t signing, $ $0 dep, anand $0 firstst month's p pt on any n new volkswawagen. visit vwdedealer.com t today. and a good saturday afternoon to you. i'm craig melvin. you're watching msnbc the place for politics. coming up this hour. >> i've i've been a prosecutor since 1976 and i have to say this is among if not the most serious it is within the to two or three most serious leaks that i've ever seen. >> attorney general eric holder on the hot seat after it was

revealed that the justice department seized phone records of ap reporters. more on the right are calling for his resignation. and get ready, get ready for if an invasion. the once every 17 years emergence of those winged insects is enough to make your skin crawl. don't forget about the really annoying sound. >> we're pretty shaken up. they had to smash a window for us to get out. >> federal investigators are now on the scene of the commuter train crash in connecticut. it happened during yesterday's rush hour. those toris in just a moment. first our political headlines on the saturday. it's another saturday on the golf course for president obama.

congress voted on obama care this week. it was the 37th time they did it in some way, shape, form or fashion. the republican led house did vote to repeal it. the bill is dead on arrival in the senate. that did not stop the gop from making it the target of this week's address. this is the red tape tower. 20,000 pages high and seven-feet tall it encompasses all of the regulations already associated with president 0 bam ma's health care. it's all here. >> former republican prez didn't nominee mitt romney stopped by the today show last night p. >> do you think if it would spr been labeled terrorism instead of an islamic video do you think it would have been a major changer. >> i think it was a point that would have been discussed but i don't think it would have

changed the election. >> the white house is looking to get back out ahead after what some have called the obama's administration worst week to date. the president was forced to go on the defensive in three news conferences in just a matter of four days. in his weekly address he tried to get the focus off scandal and back to substance. >> more than anything the american people make me optimistic about what where we're headed as a nation, especially after all we've been through in the past several years. >> kristen weller is live for us at the white house this sad afternoon. i understand senior advise ser going to be running the gauntlet for the white house tomorrow. any indication at this point what his message is going to be? >> well, i think, craig, that' we are going to see more of what we have seen from the administration is which is really a propronged 0 proech

with dealing with the controversy. on one point i think he will talk about the president's response, the fact that the white house released 100 e-mails related to their response to the benghazi attack this week. they also said they supported legislation that would protect the rights of journalists in the wake of the revelation, that the justice department had seized journalist's e-mails. on the one hand you're going to hear ham talk about that but also pivot to the subjects that the administration wants to talk about, the economy. of course the president was in baltimore on friday also talking about the economy. you'll probably hear him talk a lot about immigration reform, deficit reduction. those are the key priorities for the second term agenda. i can tell you that one white house official confirms that the new york times report that says the chief of staff directed the staff here to only ten 10% of their time focusing on the

controversies. he wants them to spend the rest of the time focusing on the president's second term agenda. that agenda the in jeopardy because they're taking up time that the white house would spend trying to enact immigration reform. >> is the white house confirmed about the president playing golf again on a saturday at the end of a week like the one he's had? >> reporter: they are saying no. but of course the president opens himself up to potential criticism given the fact that he is out on a day like day. craig, i made this point bf. this could be a part of the president's strategy to put on a face of normal and to try to redirect the conversation back to where he wants it back to, what he would like to be normalcy. i've sort of been scanning online, haven't seen any criticism yet but i'll keep you

posted on that front. >> kristen welker from the white house thank you. >> a bipartisan group of congressmen has introduced the telephone records protection act which would require court approval when the government demands telephone records from service providers. one of the politicians spearheading that bill is a democrat from colorado. he joins me live from d.c. congressman that's for being on. how widespread of a problem is this. >> this ap phone hacking scandal caught a lot of us by surprise. it looks at least from what we know now like a broad fishing ex-petition, over 100 reporters had their phone records turned over to the government. it's really an opportunity for us to remove the authority from the government. to make sure they get a court order before they tap into phone

records. >> was this an interest you had in your mind before the ap phone records or was this an impetus. >> this type of abuse really highlights the vast powers that the government has. we want to make sure that they go through a regular court approval process to be able to move forward. we've had these sorts of things occur in the past but this help increase national attention that we don't have the rights of checks and balances. congressman i want to ask you a question. in your answer i want you propretend for a moment you're not a democrat. shoot me straight here. if this is something that happened, you know, seven years ago, would people be screaming from the rooftops? >> well, which one? we're talking of the phone hacking. >> just the phone hacking. >> absolutely.

i think people would feel the same way. if it didn't break the same week as everything else was happening there would have been more attention to this one and there will be over time as well. there were several other issues that came up as well. absolutely. i think that whether americans are on the right or left, democrat or republican, we should want to make sure that law enforcement and any investigation that's run here from the federal government side goes through right legal channels and they don't have the fishi ining expeditions. not cast the wide net at the expense of everybody else's privacy. >> besides the legislation have you writ aun letter to the department of justice? have you called up the attorney general? have you let them know just how displeased you are about this? >> regarding the particular matter we're waiting until all of the facts come out. it's a little premature. what does seem to be clear is that they did have the authority in law. we've not seen any evidence that

somehow they exceeded their authority. this authority exists and frankly only congress can change that by requiring that a court order is received. >> and for folks who are not familiar with precisely how this came to be, enlighten us as to how we all kind of seem to have sat idly by while folks like yourself in washington decided that this would be an acceptable use of power. >> i don't think it is. obviously rightfully so our secret agencies like the cia are worried about leaks. they worry that they could put the lives of americans in harm. that has to be balanced with freedom of the press and we have to make sure that the press is not being monitored in their activities. a free press is as fundamental to our freedom and ore democratic system as having robust national security. >> congressman why wouldn't the doj go to a judge and ask that judge to decide whether the threat to security, whether that

was enough of a threat to warrant this search of phone records? >> that's exactly the case that we're make in this bipartisan bill. again it has democrats and republicans on board with it. i think that the fact this is in the media might help us move forward on this front for civil liberty. the government needs to show there is a reason to believe that somebody is a legitimate target for abinvestigation. in this case it was estimated that over 100 reporters had their records turned over. >> this is the one we're talking about because this is the one we know about. who's to say that this has not been far more of a common practice over the past few years in this country. again this the only one that's come to light. do you know? do you know the answer to that? >> we don't know of any others at this point but yes there could be others that have not come to light and we need to remove the authority of the government to do this without going to a court. until we do, it could be used again and again and you're right it might not come to the surface

many of the times it's used. >> congressman thank you so much. are you spending the weekend in d.c.? this is unusual, no? >> it is unusual absolutely. we worked hard until friday revealing obama care for the 37th time this week. i voted against that. we're back on monday to see what comes next. >> you spend your time so well. >> the 38th time is a charm. >> i appreciate your time. >> so kay da invasion. those winged insects spreading through the mid-atlantic and up the east coast. we're going to get the very latest. man: the charcoal went out already? ... forget it. vo: there's more barbeque time in every bag of kingsford original charcoal. kingsford. slow down and grill. there was this and this. she got a parking ticket... ♪

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it will be as loud as a rock concert. but hey, these are teenagers. they've been under grown for 17

years. hay ear going to get in the trees and they're going to sing. >> it's been called the swarm aageddon. teenage bugs are emerging from a 17 year slumber under ground aund are wrapping up for an invasion of billions. billions of so ka disare moving. they are coming for us next. don coolly is a research scientist for the university of connecticut's department of ecology and evolutionary biology. thanks for being with me. cicadas they come out on a regular basis everier ear but why is the 17-year invasion such a big deal? >> that's kind of an interesting question. almost every year somewhere on the east coast period kl cicadass come out but this year

it happens to involve the new mro area. my thought is the reason this is getting press coverage is it's just hitting new york. >> you're calling new yorkers egocentric. >> they're paying attention to a lot of insects that are going to be around. >> there are web sites out there to track this one like this one, cicada invasion, this's that one. why are we seeing them in the south first an where will we see them next after new york? >> it's like anything. pit's a spring phenomenon then and it starts in the south aun moves up north. it's been a cold spring in connecticut and new york so it's going to be a while before besee them in our area. >> they're not harmful but what really annoys a lot of folks is the noise. how loud can these things get. >> the noise is hard to ignore. when they're all going at full

blast in a chorus it could be pushing 100 decemberables. >> how long will the invase last. >> the adults will be around for three to four weeks. it all dependston weather. if it keeps on being cool an cloudy it's going to take longer. if it snaps into some hot weather it will be done really quickly. >> what is their natural predator? >> anything with a mouth will eat them. it's free food for things in the forest. >> i also dunce that a lot of folks or some folks consider cicadas a bug delicacy of some sorts, the shrimp of the land? >> i've heard a lot of those as well. i can tell you that the native americans, certainly eating cicadas is part of their tradition.

you'll see new york times articles that have cicadas recipes. i don't eat them myself. >> research scientist. university of connecticut. thank you, sir. >> a resident ka say da expert. coming up, mitt romney, he got some laugh ons the tonight show last night. we're going to play that for you. s ons the tonight show last night. we're going to play that for you. ons the tonight show last night. we're going to play that for you. nons the tonight show last night. we're going to play that for you. the tonight show last night. we're going to play that for you. before taking advair.

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it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. this is a big week in news obviously. now president obama under fire. can you be objective about this? >> no. >> thank you very much. that is the most honest answer. >> that of course was former republican presidential can date mitt romney appearing with jay leno on the tonight show. also on the political playground on this saturday horn amp, in

today's washington watchers don't have enough to think about, should a marine be holding the umbrella for the president? many conservative pundits say no. could there be weiner taping a video. it is widely speculated that anthony weiner could be getting ready to run for mayor of new york city later this year. jimmy carter may be blowing hot and cold when it comes to legalizing pot. carter is quoted this week as saying i do not favor legal zags. but you might remember in december when was asked about pot laws in washington an kro c, he said i think it's okay. we'll have to watch and see what happens. of course we are deep in the garage sags season today. among the team gig stage advice

to the leaders of tomorrow, first lady michelle obama. pe addressed the class of 2013 at the magnet school in nashville. she told them never give up. >> when something doesn't go your way, you just got to adjust. you've got to dig deep and work like crazy and that's when you'll find out what you're really made of during those hard times. but you can only do that if you're willing to put yourself in a position where you might fail. and that's why so often failure is the key to success for so many great people. can i get the smith contract, please? thank you. that's three new paper shredders. [ boris ] put 'em on my spark card. [ garth ] boris' small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase every day. great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. read back the chicken's testimony, please. "buk, buk, bukka!" [ male announcer ] get the spark business card

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toy things. >> connecticut senator giving an update a short time ago on friday's commuter train crash. he is surprised that there were not more injuries. about 70 commuters were hospitalized, three of them in critical condition. we're told that federal investigators, the ntsb is on the scene there. we heard from the governor of connecticut earlier today who basically said at this point there's no reason to believe anything sinister was at work. but that is an avenue that's going to have to be explored. we're told this train -- it happened about 6:00 yesterday evening during the height of the evening rush. nbc's correspondent joins us live from bridgeport, connecticut. what do we know about when train service is going to get back to normal in this part of the country. >> back to normal is going to be for quite a few days yet and

that's because these trains behind me will stay put until the ntsb completes it onsite investigation. cleking evidence, looking around, taking pictures, doing whatever they need to do to complete their investigation that will take place away from the site. once that do that, taen estimate has been anywhere between seven an ten days, they will then remove the trains and they will also need to repair any of the tracks and any other damage that's been done in the surrounding area. just to give you an idea of the stretch here, it's usually four tracks and that was under construction. they were down to tro two. the trains are sitting on each of those tracks. so that is off limits in this area. they're proposing people to get alternative travel as this week gets under way and they're also coming up with plans to provide alternate transportation for people in between these points. >> michelle, thank you so much.

i'm actually one of those people. that's the train that i take to get back to my town in connecticut. so thank you. appreciate it. in addition to that story with we are following some breaking news in virginia this afternoon. witnesses in southwest v-v town, they say that a car drove into a crowd at a fet value parade there. at this point we do not know the nature of the injuries right now. what caused the car to drive into that crowd is also something that we do not know. but again, damascus, virginia is car has somewhere driven into a crowd at a virginia parade. we'll update you r as more becomes available. >> here's a look at some of the the other top stories this afternoon. authorities in hazardous material suits are searching an apartment in washington state this after two letters were intercepted at a post office in

downtown spo cain, washington that some reports said contained ricin. the presence of ricin has not been confirmed by the fbi. no arrests have been made that case. >> the koreans say the missile launches are not uncommon but they're not sure if they were part of a test or a training exercise. the united nations imposed stricter same-sexes on north korea earlier this year. and all eyes on orb today. there he is, that three-year-old colt is getting ready for a run at history. the kentucky derby winner racing today in the preakness. that is the second leg of the triple count series. we have not hads a triple crown winner in this country since 1978. let's go orb. back to politics now. scandals enveloped washington

this week like smog covering los angeles. let's look for some clarity with the brain trust right now. perry bacon j, political et tore and matt welch, editor and chief at the magazine. one of my favorite brain trusts groups. again for folks who don't usually spend saturday afternoons with us. we have a conversation for 25 minutes and at the end of the discussion we crown one of these women or men the biggest brain and they get 30 seconds to go on the news. let's talk a scandal that has not hit the white house just yet. it's already hit the pentagon rooelg from disclosures at sexual assaults in the military. you said in part if something

finally changes it will be because the course demanding the military confront its sexual assault has not gone louder than before. >> well there is traditionally a lot of difference from the white house and to congress to military authority. what's being proposed right now is to take dealing with sexual assault response out of the chain of kbhand and put it into the hands of an independent judicial authority. that is a huge culture change for the military which is used to do everything through the chain of command. from a movie that exposed sf part of the military and how it exposed sexual violence, the last two weeks there have been three people who have tasked to responding to these cases who have been involved in these. it may be the moment to take it out of the chain of command. >> is it purely a matter of the

culture of the military or is there more at work here? >> unfortunately sexual violence is -- when it happens to you in the military, you have reprisal against you because you have to report it to your boss. there's frankly a tug chur that can be toxic for people who speak out against this. the process for dealing with it in broken. >> perry, that was something that did not necessarily get a great deal of ink this week, probably not as much as it would have gotten had it not been for theist, benghazi, the ap stuff. as the white house may have been going the upper hand on the benghazi issue, that irs story broke. which issue could be the longer problem for the white house? is it definitely the irs. >> it's definitely the irs. but my real answer -- the benghazi e-mails pretty much prove there was not a lot of

there. my real answer would be none of the above. the ap story is important in terms of press liberties. the other stories are going away. i like washington but richard nixon comparisons with were the -- two of which the president was not involved in at all and yet he was being confirmed to president nixon. >> it happens. i think there's a reflex, has been a reflex among some people in the media and some common playerers to react to the abusive power by saying those damn republicans which strikes me as a little bit of an odd kind of approach here. you know, these things need to be investigated for sure. what happened in the irs specifically, if there is no cull pa blt coming down from the

white house, there hasn't been any evidence that there is any, it could be worse. they could actually turn into something that rez nats with people more. what if there's more of an innings tugs nal bias of tea party or right of center groups. what if everybody at the white house thought they were doing their job perfectly and they wlont going anything wrong. i thit it has more res innocence with people out of washington. >> was there any speculation that there was -- is it government workers looking for an easy way out? when you've got 70,000 applications coming in. is that it or is it as matt alluded to maybe a deeper institution mall issue. so far there's no evidence to believe that this was the water they were swimming in. we're looking at career civil servants. stutes are pretty unclear. they're inundated with

applications. this is a job that nobody with the irs wanted. so i think the when they say it was short cuts it's possible it should be investigated to see if there's any political motivation. they have yet to find oun that there was aun institutional directive on high and two that these people were politically mott vated in any way. >> perry, we talk about this, you and i, for folks who are already suspicious of government an for folks who don't like the president and for the 90% of people to who don't think a lot of the tax collectors in general they have the one nugget they'll be able to point to for the next decade. remember back in 2013 when the irs apologized? is that not going to be the more significant lasting legacy if you will of the so-called scandal. >> i think we've already seen a few conservatives this week say

hey, the irs i think franklin graham was saying the irs was after me too. i think not necessarily sure they were caught in the droog net. but i do any any group that gets called progress or liberal will say we're being investigated because of this. the 2% of americans who like the irs will go down to 1%. >> welch have you been targeted. >> not as far as we know. we have a 501 c 3 but we've been accomplished for a long time. >> you're not concerned or anything. >> no. >> stay with us. we're going the take a quick break. we're going to continue the conversation. we'll have some other kfgss as well and we'll crown the biggest brain. ♪

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of daily business. i've been in this business for more than 30 years and ear first amendment lawyers and our lawyers inside the ap and our ceos, none of us have ever seen anything like that. >> the brain trust is back. that was the associated press responding to what we were talking about just a short time ago, responding to the justice department's effort to basically seize two months' worth of reporters' phone records, some so 0 reporter we know of were targeted. i want to start with matt on this one. you wrote on rn.com thursday in part why the whous very lamely attempted to do damage control on the department of justice's gro tesk associated press dragnet -- is this not you? >> i'm saying it's bad writing. >> well you wrote it. some actual civil lib tearians

in washington has introduced a bill that would increase protections for all americans against unchecked federal snooping. we talked a few minute ag with one of the civil lib tearians, a congress from colorado. he said a balance has to be struck between freedom of the press and national security and that congress must remove the government's authority to eavesdrop without a court order. is this one of the so-called scandals that would have gotten a lot more press, a lot more ink had not not happened this week? >> it got alo lot of press and it's going to have a lot more coming down the pike because it happened to journalists. there are a lot of journalists waking up slowly to the fact that the obama administration has been disappointing on prosperi prosperity. this really focuses your attention. when you have reporters in the hartford bureau who have absolutely nothing do with anything who had their phones

looked at, that's a real kind of walkup call. >> why not go to a judge at least? why not go to a judge. >> because you don't have to. this welcome to the post 9/11 world. right now more than 1 million phone records are grabbed by the government a year of americans from americans and we don't knee about it. we don't have a right or neckism where can say did you lk at ur 0 phone records. they ask the phone companies and they take it. it is horrendous from a fourth amendment standpoint. thankfully there are a few civil lib tearians who are starting to fight against it. it's's nate mayor situation we we're in right now. >> if this had happen six years ago would people be screaming from the rafters? is there a legitimate double standard here. >> i think it's important to put into context the fact that the obama administration has six different indictments going to

prosecute whistle-blowers. yes, the people were angry on the record of civil lib tearians with they have made the dedecision to go after leaks. the ap story got more attention because it was joked with the two other store vis and it was the idea that the administration was under siege. i think people like mat and people on the left have been beating the drum about these issues for a long time but plenty of liberals an democrats haven't been interested. this does show a new level you would argue over reach. it does poison the relationship between the press and the administration to an extent that i didn't think happened before. >> there are very few things that we discuss on this broadcast that the two of you agree on. this appears to be one of those thengs. i don't want it to last long so i'm going to come to you. >> i agree with them on this. >> it's one of those things,

it's very difficult -- you know there are folks who scream and shout on social media from their mother's basements in their underwear who will scream about national security being preserved. but one has to wonder why not let a judge decide. >> they could have served the ap with a subpoenas for those records and it would have gone before a judge. they choose to sir couple vent the -- >> when the government said national security in capital letters to anybody for anything, everything goes out the window. >> i want to talk about the president's campaign machine. it's reemerged as organizing for action. its goal was to essentially help move mr. obama's agenda forward. the gun control legislation failed miserably. where is ofa. >> i don't think ofa can make a

huge difference with the way politics is set up right now where you essentially have -- if you have 40 senators you can block anything from passing in congress for that reason. therefore 55 senators voted for the gun control bill which is more, 55% of senators voted for the gun control bill. only 51% of americans voted for obama in the last election. but the way congress is organize niedsed right now i'm not sure they can change the votes in a place like north dakota where the democrat senator did not want to vote for gun control. i think the chal leg for ofa is obama is strong in places that are liberal and those senators are voting the right way for liberals but there's not enough of those senators to over wellment the figure burst. >> what does that mean for the future of the group? >> i think in terms of how much understand influence they're going tore in the next few years, i don't think there's any at pull. the republicans agree on the

issue more broadly so it will pass. there aren't a lot of issues where ofa is going to move administration. there's been a lot of discussion this week that obama's agenda have been stalled because of the scandals. i'm not sure that it were. things are not moving. i think it has very little to do with ofa and the scandals other than the republicans don't agree with his agenda. >> how much do people actually care about some of these sandals that we've spent a lot of time talking about and writing about this week? is this a classic case of media nooefl gazing to a certain extent? i'm talking about normal people, matt welch. i'm not talking about you finding that the biggest nut in -- i'll just leave it there. i'm talking about joe q sick pack, regular american, how much do they honestly care about the three things that have dominated the conversation this week? >> i don't know. >> that's an honest answer. >> i've seen some pollings said

it's a small majority of americans are paying pretty close to the irs stand l for example. but on some level the question doesn't really matter or it shouldn't matter to our motivations as citizens, as people who are trying to dour duty as journalists who have trying to to have some watchdog on political power. water gait was not a public story in 1972. no one cared. it was on page a 18. forget about it. richard nixon won in a landslide election. sometimes you work on stories because they're important not because of where john q sits on it. >> he said that the white house policies are at the root of the stand l. when you grow government this big these kinds of scandals are inevitable and he bears

responsibility on this. what's the risk here? how real is the possibility that the gop is going to overplay their hand on some of these things? >> well i think, again, people -- when you ask what people care about, people generally care are they employed, are they healthy, are they safe. so far those things have not been called into question. on some level it is not a coincidence that these quote unquote scandals -- each one of them is different than the other. i challenge you to summarize what the case in benghazi is in a sentence. 's not coin dense that these scandals have come up when it looked like the president might be making head way in immigration reform. >> quick break. when i come back we'll crown the biggest brain.

we'll give them a minute to rabbit about whatever their heart desires. that owns the other side of this break. we went out and asked people a simple question: how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪ i did? when visa signature asked everybody what upgraded experiences really mattered... you suggested luxury car service instead of "strength training with patrick willis." come on todd! flap them chicken wings. [ grunts ] well, i travel a lot and umm... [ male announcer ] at visa signature, every upgraded experience comes from listening to our cardholders.

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and now as promises we are going to let one of our brain trust regulars have a moment. time now to find out who the biggest brain is among the brain trust. you know it was tough today. i'll be honest with you. today, drum roll, we don't have it cued up so we can't do it. perry bacon jr. you are the biggest brain for several reasons. your real lie zags about the scandals and some other stuff. take it away. >> it's commencement week at colleges around the country. so for those in the class of 2013 who are watching here's my two cents. first of all, you're going to need to per sere veer. thank to people in the place i live, washington, d.c. this is one of the worst times no

graduate an then start looking for a job. be patient, apply everywhere and tell mom an dad you may have to live with them for a while. second, wherever you land, work hard. i am lucky to have a job that i get to gab on tv and live in politics. i got here from working super hard at jobs that were not as glamorous. good luck to the graduates of 2013. real life has many opportunities like doing this. >> what were some of these awful jobs that you had. i'm curious now what were you doing? >> i was a parking attendant one summer. that was the most dull job i did did. i worked in the hospital, helped move patients from one room to the next. that was not super glamorous compared to this. >> matt welch advice for graduates? >> i'm a college dropout.

>> i did not know that. have you thought about going back. >> i've thought that is the most ridiculous suggestion. >> any advice. >> the first year is going to be terrible after you graduate. don't think you're going to graduate and think the world is going to treat you like good's gift. >> how did you get into -- >> i worked at my college newspaper which was terrific at santa barbara. i got in with crazy people in. i've been doing journalism since i was 18. college got in the way. >> college over rated. >> i was introduced to my profession and craft. that wasn't overrated. it costs three times more now or four times now than when i went there. it's overpriced. that's for sure. >> thanks to both of you. i find that very fascinating.

>> the brain trust as always, i appreciate your time ana big thanks to all f you as well. we will see you back here tomorrow, just hours after president obama delivers the commencement address at moore house college down in atlanta, georgia. we'll talk to the prez of the university. he'll be here tomorrow, meet the press. senator mitch mcconnell, also on the show, white house seniored a various, dan pfeiffer . if it's sunday, it's meet the press. if it's saturday afternoon it's the all new ed show. ed shuts is standing by. we'll join you on the other side of this break. if there was a pill

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i'm goining to dream about t that steaka. i'i'm going toto dream about thatat tiramisu.u. whwhat a nightht, huh? but, u um, can thehe test drivie be over nonow? head b back to the d dealership?p? [ mamale announcncer ] it's praractically y yours. but we stitill need yourur signaturere. volklkswagen sigign then dririe is back. anand it's nevever been eaeasir to get a a passat. that's's the powerer of german n engineerining. get $0$0 down, $0 0 due at sig, $0 depososit, anand $0 firstst month's p pt on any n new volkswawagen. vivisit vwdealaler.com tododay. good evening americans and welcome to "the ed show" from new york. the famous saying, let's get to

work. for coming to the floor today to, i don't know what the word is, to even counter some of the ridiculousness. obama care is less popular today than even before it was passed for the first time. >> we see this coming, just like this titanic. >> the water is freezing and there aren't enough boats. >> why would anybody vote to repeal the patient rights act. >> half 0 the people on the ship are going to die. not the better half. >> is it that kind of thinking that is sorely needed for now. >> they play for power, not the people. >> i want to repeal the law of the land. is that clear. >> force the president of the united states to -- >> you're in america, in the wealthiest nation on earth. >> i rise with the course of others in this whole notion of revealing obama care. >> it's a pretty damn good deal. okay? the i