as a category 4 tornado, that still could be upgraded was one mile wide and 20 miles long with windspeeds of up to 200 miles per hour. for 40 minutes it tore through block after block of homes and businesses, leveling everything in its path. including two schools and a hospital. the massive funnel was captured on video by one resident as it tore through nearby newcastle. in the tragedy's wake. some fortunate survivors described the experience. >> when you see a tornado that big, you find a place you know, have no choice. it's either find cover or -- die. >> i was in a stall with some kids and it just started coming down, so i laid on top of one of my little boys, he just kept saying, i love you, i love you, please don't die with me, please don't die with me. >> we saw the glass breaking and things crashing and rumbling.

and the ceiling, the roof tore off. i could see little holes starting to develop in the ceiling and coy actually see the tornado. >> did you think it was going to hit you? >> i thought ways going to die there for a little bit. for a few minutes. >> we thought we died, we were inside the cellar door, we locked the cellar door when we saw did coming. and it got louder, the next thing you know, you see the latch coming undone and we couldn't reach for it and it ripped open the door. and it just glass and debris started slamming on us, we thought something, we thought we were dead, to be honest. >> rescue crews worked through the night in a desperate attempt to find survivors pulling over 100 people out from the rubble. at this time, 140 people, including 70 children have been treated at nearby hospitals. a time lapse video shows the magnitude of the storm as it touched down at 2:56 p.m. local time. traveling 20 miles east through the oklahoma city suburbs from newcass toll moore where it

extracted the most damage. residents of the suburb of moore, situated in the middle of tornado alley, are no strangers to tragedy. in may of 1999, they experienced what was at the time, the deadliest tornado in 20 years. that storm's winds were indirectly measured at 302 miles per hour according to the national weather service. which called them the highest winds ever found near earth surface by any means. still, this morning, oklahoma governor mary fallon said nothing in the past could compare to yesterday's devastation. >> this is -- bigger than anything i've ever seen. it's absolutely huge. it's horrific. it looked like somebody just set off something that just destroyed structures. not blocks, but miles. >> that 1999 tornado, which accounted for $1.4 billion worth of damage looks likely to be eclipsed by yesterday's storm. according to rough surveillance estimates by local affiliate kfor, yesterday's impacted area is easily twice as large.

>> if you guys can see this, i don't know how to explain it. how to describe it. this is, this is terrible. this is war zone terrible. this school is completely gone. >> a short time ago, president obama who signed a disaster declaration for five oklahoma counties last night addressed the nation. >> as a nation, our full focus right now is on the urgent work of rescue. and the hard work of recovery, and rebuilding that lies ahead. there are empty spaces where there used to be living rooms. and bedrooms and class rooms. and in time, we're going to need to refill those spaces with love and laughter and community. the people of moore should know that their country will remain on the ground, there for them, beside them, as long as it takes. >> fema director, craig fugate is en route to oklahoma to

coordinate the national response to the storm. flags have been lowered to half-mast in honor of the victims. authorities on the ground in moore are due to give an updated briefing in an hour. joining me distinguished fellow and demos and dan raptor. joining me from moore, oklahoma is the host of msnbc's "jansing and company" chris jansing. chris, give us a sense of what it is like on the ground there. the president talked about these empty spaces where living rooms and family rooms used to be. you're there, could you give us just a sense of what it is like to walk around this devastation? >> it's almost indescribable. when we drove in early this morning, i thought it looked like the set of an apocalyptic movie. look at what's behind me. there's nothing this used to be a neighborhood, this used to be a subdivision. every single house has been flattened. the people back there are

homeowners and friends, they're going through bricks and pieces of wood, looking for anything that they might be able to find. i was able to talk to one woman this morning who said the only thing she wanted was her pictures, and she couldn't believe, not only did she find them, but they were fine. but this is absolutely -- it's just gone. everything is gone and it goes on for blocks and blocks. and the overnight hours when we first arrived here, there were still search and rescue, they were marking homes. they had dogs out, infrared imaging, making sure that there were no people who needed to be rescued. we saw ambulances, about ten of them going in that direction. because this just goes on and on. it was just a terrifying afternoon yesterday afternoon. and now you can see behind me, what a very long job they have ahead of them here, alex. >> chris, the death count has been revised down from 51 to 24, good news amid all the

devastation. we have news that around 100 survivors have been pulled from the rubble thus far. could you give us a sense of what the rescue efforts, how robust they are at this point in time. are they still pulling people out and sort of with what frequency are they finding survivors at this point? >> i've been to far too many of these kinds of tragedies. what you do learn is in the first 24 hours. and sometimes even a little longer, it is very difficult under chaotic circumstances to get really good, really hard numbers. the first job that people have is to deal with those who obviously are injured. to try to find those who might still be alive and doing the counting isn't always foremost in the minds of an emergency room doctor who is trying to save a life. so often it is understandable that these kinds of numbers get

among the 24 who died, nine are confirmed are children. ite right across from what was almost a brand new hospital. they were going car to car to make sure no one got caught. this is going to be a long pain-staking process. >> rescuers had to be forced to leave and for a lot of them. this is their community. this is their state. they don't want to leave one piece of debris unturned if there might be one person out there still alive. >> i want to go to nbc news meteorologist, bill karins with us in studio. as we talk about what happened here. statistics stood out to me which is that the u.s. experiences about 80 to 90% of all tornadoes that are your across the world.

we talk about devastation, this kind of storm, this kind of meteorological event is almost unique to the united states of america. can you tell us a little more about that? >> we're used to it here. we get the question, does europe get stuff like this. they usually don't get the big huge ones like this it's the perfect topography, if you look at a map and see how warm it is with all the warm air off the gulf and the mountains of the rockies, it's the perfect set-up for thunderstorm development and rapid thunderstorm development. we're not done, this is going to be day five of our tornado outbreak. we have a severe thunderstorm watch that includes the oklahoma city and moore area. i'm not worried about tornado, but it's going to be a cold, chilly rain and gusty winds, maybe some small hail in moore, probably in an hour to an hour and a half from right now. everyone that's in the moore area will have to stop for a short period of time, as the lightning with the storms rolls through. further to the south, this is what we've been waiting for. the development of tornadoes in

central texas. we now have a huge, this is a huge you know how big texas is. the tornado watch box, this goes abilene to dallas, from killeen up to the red river. we don't have tornadoes yet, but this is showing us the area where the storm prediction center thinks it's most likely for storms to form. the timing for the dallas-fort worth area, sometime from 4:00 to 6:00 is when i think the strongest of the storms will be rolling through nearest to dallas-fort worth. and the national weather service is saying a 30% chance that we'll have a strong tornado today, in that watch box area. could be over the rural farmlands, or it could head over towards the city like we saw yesterday. so here's the risk area. the area of yellow, slight risk. the area of red, that's what we call the moderate risk of severe weather. we had that yesterday, where we got the huge tornado. so that's the potential if you're in this region and that

includes nine and a half million people, a majority of them in the dallas-fort worth area. but texarkana, shreveport. tyler, paris, waco, eye to the skies. tornado watch issued, but no tornado warnings, no development yet. we're still two to three hours from that. >> i want to open it up to our folks here. you have been covering extraordinary news stories for a very long time and we have some actually archival fattage of you in galveston, texas back in the 1960s. it was reported in your book, your biography. you were one of the first folks to put up a radar image of a hurricane on our television screens. given your history with you know, weather, weather events, devastation like this. ways struck by the fact that some people who were in the path of the storms, could not find

shelter, were advised to get in their cars and drive as fast as they could that seems incredibly violent and the fear around the path of the destruction. >> as you see, the fears are well warranted. particularly when it comes to tornadoes. which has been said several times this morning. bring the strongest winds to the surface of the earth known to in all of history. hurricanes, huge, but in terms of wind force, not what tornadoes are. so those fears, while justified. the following things strike me. number one, despite all the television newspaper and magazine coverage, unless you're there, and unless you walk the ground, it's almost impossible to get a full sense of how devastating this is for many, many families. >> this kind of devastation, oklahoma may be the capital of self-reliance of the united states of america.

oklahomans pride themselves on self-reliance and they will respond in their own way to this. it will take a lot of help from their fellow americans for a very long time. and once the television coverage rolls past it. they'll still be dealing with it. another point about tornadoes i think we should make is that the warning system is so much better now. the death toll, terrible as it is. is much lower for example. 1896, it was a terrible tornado. that in the st. louis area. that killed well over 200 people. there was a 24-hour period in mississippi and alabama where over 400 people killed, i think it was 1925, maybe 1936 along in there. my point is that we've gotten much better at predicting where they're going to happen. when they're going to happen. we've got much better with alerts and alarms. but there's still a lot of progress to be made in those areas. as we can see from this what's happened in moore here.

that every time you make progress, it's well worth the money spent on a preventive side. the warning side. >> absolutely. this will inevitably give rise to a conversation about federal emergency management funds, disaster preparedness. we know that the national weather service says people were given a 16-minute warning. faster than your average. three minutes more advanced warning than on average. but at the same time, sequester cuts i think are going to slash the national weather service budget by 8 %. the other thing i want to talk about is the communities affected here. if you look at the costliest tornadoes, according to nbc news, we're talking about joplin, missouri, topeka, kansas, lubbock, texas, bridgecreek and moore, oklahoma. we know a lot of the areas, mobile homes were affected. habitat for humanity houses, they are not communities with a great deal of financial resources. that underscores the necessity

of the federal government to come in and do what they do in events like this and also communities. in terms of coming together and rebuilding and repairing. i mean that not just in the literal sense, but also in the psychological sense as well. >> the federal response and the support that comes after these disasters is absolutely essential. we have to fund it. it should be outside of politics, you don't know where it's going to occur. with hurricane sandy and the new york metropolitan area. it's this tornado, sometimes it's going to be in texas, it's going to be on the west coast. where you get earthquakes and that sort of thing. so the argument over, over emergency response, to me i think is shameful. we do have it. also, you mentioned the sequester. i mean this is a good example of why the sequester is exactly the wrong way to go about governing. you know, you don't just do things across the board. in this case we're talking about budget cuts and that sort of

thing. you have to make decisions, that's what governing is about. and you also mention community this strikes me every time we have a disaster. whether it's a natural disaster or terror bombing or something like that. this is a case where you see how vulnerable you are as human beings and how important community is. and in fact we always do respond, people come together, both the people within the affected communities. and also people from the outside who, who want to help. my question is, is why is it so difficult to sustain that sense of community once the disaster is over. >> chris, i want to go back to you before we have to go to break. one of the most profoundly affecting stories i've heard and there are many in the wake of this tornado. is the teacher who physically covered six of her students with her own body to protect them from the tornado as it tore through the school. i'm sure there are a host of

stories like that. but for the community, it is, as bob was saying, it is a reminder of what we do to protect each other in times of trouble and i'm sure you're bearing witness to that right now. >> it's an extraordinary story, it reminded me of newtown and the bravery of the teachers there. there was another teacher in a preschool who was huddled with her children. who were terrified and apparently crying and they had learned the song "you are my sunshine" and she sang it with them and it calmed them down and just a few hours ago, i met a woman who was baby-sitting a friend's dogs and she knew, she was at work, that the dogs were at her house, and she knew that her house was probably gone and she was out all night and found these animals that belonged to her friend. and i said, your house is gone. it was literally down the block from me, it was leveled. and yet she had found these animals. she had already gone about volunteering, she's a nurse, so she had started to look for ways to help. and her house was gone if that

is not an inspirational story. alex. i don't know what is. it is, i think, one of the things that always gets people through these terrible tragedies. we see it time and time again. the way communities come together and help each other. >> msnbc's chris jansing live from moore, oklahoma. >> after the break, yesterday's tornado brings to the fore the recent spike in severe and devastating weather incidents, we'll examine extreme trends when "the new york times's" andr andr andrew [ male announcer ] this is kevin.

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in moore, oklahoma touched down 16 minutes after the first warning went out, it traveled for 20 miles and was on the ground for 40 minutes. the tornado had wind speeds of up to 200 miles per hour and was at least a mile wide. the latest death toll stands at 24 and officials say the number is expected to rise. even in a region accustomed to extreme weather and in a state where tornadoes are a fact of life, oklahoma has not seen a tornado this destructive since 1999 as rescuers sift through the wreckage, questions remain whether anything can be done to mitigate another disaster in the future. the earth's warming temperatures do not appear to affect the size and frequency of tornadoes. according to the a.p., lately tornado activity in american has been jekyll-and-hyde weird and scientists are unclear if climate change has played a role in the recent patterns. 2011 saw a record number of twisters, but until this week, the past 12 months had seen the fewest tornadoes in 20 years. but still recent history sucks that a new era of extreme weather is upon us. with record heat waves,

droughts, wildfires and deadly super storms. whether or not our changing atmosphere is the missing link, amy davidson argues in the "new yorker," climate change has changed the name of the weather game. climate change means that the weather rhythms that we think we know by heart are all out of sync. joining us on set, senior fellow for environmental understanding at pace university and writer for the dot-earth blog in "the new york times," andrew rivkin. the stuff you've been writing about is incredibly useful when we try to think about how this happened and ha can be done to mitigate a disaster like this. you have be a analysis regarding our vulnerability to tornadoes. tell us about that and specifically in terms of moore. the proliferation of mobile homes, the growth in the population of southern cities. i won't, won't get ahead of it. but if you could and explain a little bit. >> we live in an era where climate is changing and humans are influencing the system. but other things are cnging

way faster. you look at the growth rates in moore, which on their own website, the city's website shows explosive growth there tripling of the population in the last 50 years, in a place where you could have a megatornado come through and basically people are going to look and take video if they had it back then. now you take about epic calamities and then the norms for building in places like this, have not caught up with the reality of these kinds of storms. there for a few thousand dollars, you saw some video earlier, a homeowner can have a sturdy storm shelter. like a room, a block house. but you know, we don't like to spend money, whether it's that or some other risk. a lot of people in california, deal with earthquake risks the same way. some states, oregon, is a sitting duck for the next big earthquake there. there's 1,000 schools there that are doomed to fall down when they have the great quake and no one is doing anything about it. there's a behavioral pattern

that gets behind the vulnerability. >> and let's be clear, it costs money to build underground shelters, right? >> it costs money to build underground shelters. he's talking about oregon, these are things that are ultimately going to save money in the long run. more importantly, they'll save lives. but 0er thing is these are the kinds of things that you can do in a period where you have tough economic times, where you can put people to work. doing jobs that are not boondoggles, we ought to be thinking and talking more seriously about some of these issues. >> dan, i'm not trying to create or presume a causal link between climate change and tornadoes. we don't, the science is it's not out there for that. in terms of extreme weather events, there is no denying, the last few years, if you look at the tornado outbreak in the south and the midwest. the largest tornado outbreak ever recorded in april of 2011,

the joplin tornadoes, hurricane sandy, of course and the drought that hit the midwest and the plains areas, the wildfires in texas. i mean we're now living in an era of extreme weather. >> this is where the controversy over climate change gets complicated, very complicated and in some ways outrageous, if you will. we are in a period of extreme weather. we can debate what has caused that. what the causal relationships are or not. but there's no denying that we're in a different era now. is it going to last the rest of our lifetime? are our children's grandchildren's lifetime? i don't know. it's, it's counterproductive to say to ourselves, we're going to deny in and argue about this. on either side of it. we need to come together. and talk about such things as, listen, hurricanes, we know, hurricanes devastate coast. hurricanes come, people rebuild, right up to the coastline.

it defies logic to do that. now, you can say well we can't deny people a right to build there. but you can say, okay, if you build there, we don't take the responsibility of helping you rebuild any more. that's an example of the kinds of things that we could be doing, but we're not doing. >> why do you think that is? the polling shows, at yale university, the poll on american attitude the towards climate change. 58% of u.s. residents believe global warming is affecting the country's weather, but only 28% say dealing with global warming is a top priority for the president and congress and i think that would probably you could map that out to a public appetite for some sort of comprehensive energy reform bill. this is not a green issue, this is an economic issue, this is an issue of mortality and saving lives, these extreme weather events. >> what's happened is the public belief, and belief i use particularly because science is not about belief. but public beliefs about science are skewed the way we are

polarized on other issues. there's a, you look at who believes what, it's not a function of information. some of the same work that the yale group has done. the shows that the more polarized people are in this fight, are more informed. the people who reject the calamitous view of greenhouse emissions driving climate change are more informed than some people who are freaked out about it. so it's not a function of information it's a function of culture and the divisions are not going to go away. but as dan just said. there's a no brainer here with the vulnerability is implicit. the vulnerability is implicit and we've grown our exposure in places like the south. all the mobile home parks and in places like oklahoma. the vults there, there are policies and this gets to the role of government. why should we provide a mortgage. why should there be a federal deduction for a mortgage in a place where a house is going to fall down? >> why is that?

>> politics and common sense don't always go together. >> that's probably definitely true. >> hopefully with some of these examples, moore having had this calamity twice now, 1999 and now, and also the epic outbreak in 2011 and you've got to see the hopefully there will be some impetus building for changing rules and regulations in a way that can foster a culture of care and prevention sort of getting out ahead. and when you see people walk out of there. out of these, not pretty cheap concrete rooms, safe and sound, in the middle of devastation, that says a lot. i want to be sure that story gets out there. which is why i write about it so much. >> bob, it is worth noting that yesterday chris christie was asked about new jersey's preparedness for hurricane sandy and they said given the fact that maybe climate change is something that well for example, new york sotomayor bloomberg acknowledges it and subsequently made perhaps better disaster plans for climate change-related event. christie said there's no proof

that sandy was caused by climate change, which i think has disappointed a lot of folks that thought he was going it take a more moderate position on something like that. >> he's right. there's no proof that that particular storm was caused by climate change. but we've had these trends, dan is exactly right. where in a new era and climate change is linked to these, this pattern of more extreme storms. and they've been devastating, they've been devastating in terms of loss of life and they've been devastating in terms of the financial cost. what is really needed is leadership on these issues. and that's what's been lacking. because there's a tendency for, and i think this is probably just a normal human tendency. to remain in denial about these sorts ever big, long-term problems. >> and the inevitability of some of these storms. >> which is why you need leaders to come in there and explain the importance of the issues, what can and should be done. and how it's going to affect you and as dan pointed out, your children and your grandchildren.

>> what an important point. the two of you who spend more time studying this than most of us do. where are the leaders? it wouldn't take that many leaders. but a few good men and women on each side of the dividing line could make a huge difference on this. of saying, look, just for example, let's talk about the melting of the arctic ice and what's happening. that's a fact. you can argue about what's causing did and how long it's going to last, but that's a fact and it is going to cause the oceans to rise. so where are the leaders? >> and even congressional leadership if we're talking setting aside you know, the debate over our carbon-based economy. but if you're a congressional leader opposed to federal outlays for disaster assistance, then hey maybe we shouldn't support the building of homes in high-risk areas. the two would seem to go hand in hand, right? >> but it's easier to rebuild. the politics of rebuilding is the lot easiers of pro activity. you don't get to improve the negative.

the homes -- there's no news cameras there. i'm not saying that the politicians sit there waiting for disaster. but it's part of the norm of how we do stuff. we don't pay attention ahead of time. it's a tough situation. >> "new york times" andy rivkin. thank you for your time and expertise. my pleasure. >> another key component for handling natural disasters, we discuss the role for federal assistance when daniel weiss, from the center of progress joins us. [ male announcer ] it's 7am and steve is already thinking about tomorrow. which is why he's investing in his heart health by eating kellogg's raisin bran®. mom make you eat that? i happen to like raisins. [ male announcer ] invest in your heart health. now that's what i'm talkin' about. [ male announcer ] with kellogg's raisin bran®. ni tthan probablycare what imoreanyone else.and we've had this farm for 30 years. we raise black and red angus cattle. we also produce natural gas. that's how we make our living

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as we all know by now, a series of storms swept across the plains yesterday in one of the most destructive tornadoes in history. in an instant, neighborhoods were destroyed. dozens of people lost their lives. many more were injured. and among the victims were young children, trying to take shelter in the safest place they knew, their school. for all of those who have been affected, we recognize that you face a long road ahead. but you will not travel that path alone. your country will travel with you. >> that was president obama earlier today. making a statement after yet another national disaster. the president offered his prayers and condolences to the people of oklahoma. and his authorized federal emergency assistance as a state recovers from yesterday's devastating tornado. nbc news white house correspondent, kristen welker

joins us from the north lawn of the white house. kristen, the president once again cast into the role of consoler in chief. >> absolutely. this is becoming an all-too-familiar role for this president. you talked about the fact that he had authorized federal assistance to the five counties who have been the hardest hit. what that means, alex is that those who have lost their homes, their businesses, those who need a place to stay tonight. can ask for and get federal assistance immediately bypassing loan departments. and i can tell you there are fema crews on the ground with ipads, who are helping people do that at a faster pace. sort of speaks to how technology is playing a role in recovering from this latest disaster. now there are other fema crews on the ground helping with search and rescue, as well as telecommunications. we've been reporting all day that people are struggling to reach each other by cell phone. of course fema administrator, craig fugate has also been dispatched to oklahoma. he will be meeting with the

governor before she delivers a press conference later today. no word yet on whether or not president obama will head to oklahoma. but it is very likely of course this is what we see him do as consoler in chief. he did it in the wake of the boston bombings. and of course, the plant fire in west texas. alex. >> kristen welker, live from the white house, thanks for the update. coming up, the tragedy in oklahoma comes just six months after super storm sandy devastated parts of the northeast. we will discuss multibillion-dollar disasters and the cost of relief, when daniel weiss from the center for american progress joins us next. [ male announcer ] this is kevin. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. that was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again, and now i gotta take more pills. ♪ yup another pill stop.

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available out there. i knew devry university would give me the skills that i needed to make one of those tech jobs mine. we teach cutting-edge engineering technology, computer information systems, networking and communications management -- the things that our students need to know in the world today. our country needs more college grads to help fill all the open technology jobs. to help meet that need, here at devry university, we're offering $4 million dollars in tech scholarships for qualified new students. learn more at devry.edu. right now in moore, oklahoma, the focus remains on search and rescue, but the process of rebuilding will soon begin. yesterday, president obama called oklahoma governor mary

fallon and signed a major disaster declaration. the tornado raked a mile-wide path of destruction and putting the pieces back together will require a tremendous effort and likely cost billions of dollars. the deadly twister that hit joplin, missouri two years ago tomorrow created $2.8 billion in damage. according to a recent report by the center for american progress. in 2011 and 2012, the u.s. saw 25 $1 billion weather events. together those cost more than 1100 deaths and cost the economy a total of $188 billion. since 2011, the government has paid out $136 billion for disaster relief. an average of nearly $400 per american household per year. the trend line over the past two decades shows a spike in billion-dollar damage events. ultimately, beyond the human toll, these disasters are

extremely expensive and are only becoming more frequent. joining us now from washington, is senior fellow and director of climate strategy at the center for american progress, daniel weiss, daniel, thanks for joining us today. and as someone who has studied events like these, what is your recommendation as we as a country and a political community and a policy-making class try to wrap their heads around this. what should we be doing that we aren't doing now? >> first of all and most important, our thoughts and prayers are with the people of oklahoma. who have suffered this unimaginable disaster. and it's good that president obama has directed all resources of the federal government to help them. these sorts of natural disasters are becoming more frequent, as one of your earlier guests talked about. we believe that there are things that we can do to help mitigate some of the damages. and fema has estimated that for every dollar we spend on making

communities more resilient to natural disasters, we can reduce economic damages by $4. so in other words, we save $4 in lower damages for every $1 invested in community resilience. something that's not really happening right now. >> daniel, let's talk a little bit about fema. there's a lot of, i will say to some degree, partisan bickering over the efficacy of fema and the efficacy and whether or not the funds that the federal assistance funds are actually targeting the things they need to. we know the two senators from oklahoma, coburn and inhov said there need to be expanses. i believe inhof said the sandy aid bill looked like a slush fund. he called into question whether or not the monies were being used correctly. what do you say to the skepticism about fema and the federal assistance funds? >> well first of all, today is

not the day to try and politicize disaster aid. we believe that we are one nation, indivisible under god which means we have to pull together when fellow americans are something befall them that is not their own doing which is a huge super storm like sandy. or the tragic tornadoes yesterday. in oklahoma. you know the amount of resources that are being invested in these communities are being well spent as far as we can tell. you know, governor christie of new jersey has been very appreciative. we don't believe that we ought to be cutting funding for medical research or student loans. in order to help people who are harmed by a horrible tornado. that's not the american way. but what we can do and representative lois caps of california has already proposed this a few months ago. is let's create a dedicated source of revenue that we can

then invest in making communities more resilient. to hopefully minimize or reduce the impact of these kinds of horrible natural disasters. >> i want to open this up to our folks here in new york, daniel. bob, coburn's office was asked about whether he would still call for offsets in increased disaster assistance and he said there's a legitimate role for fema. we ought to live within our budget. the oklahoma city bombing, we offset that. we offset that by using funds that weren't being used. we didn't offset it by cutting programs. which is in this time of budgetary quote-unquote discipline. is interesting to do. some folks say putting your money where your mouth is being ideologically consistent, you look at the devastation and it seems incredibly difficult to imagine saying we can't give you this money until we figure out where it's going. >> we shouldn't say that and i can't believe as a country we're going to say that you look at

the images that we're viewing and you say we have to help these folks now and we'll do the budgeting later. the united states is a wealthy-enough country to respond to emergencies even on this scale. as quickly as possible. almost instantly. and there's another problem if you start talking about offsets. and that sort of thing. because after a while you're going to have folks saying, well you know, i'm reluctant to appropriate this money for these emergency services. because it's going to hurt me or it's going to hurt this issue that i care about. over here. and you don't want to start getting into that. >> it's not the american way. the american way is to say our fellow americans are in trouble here. they're suffering, we're going to rush the help to them. now there is a place, and this is where i think fema has become more aware of this. there is a place, once we've done it, is then do a real accountability listing. we know that fema was politicized, to a very high

degree at the time of katrina. the unfortunate trailer business, shot through with political corruption of a very despicable sort. so it is incumbent on fema and those in congress it make sure now is not the time to be talking about, now is the time to pour the help to them. get the help to them. get the help to them now. there is a time to say, fema has a responsibility. they need to be well-financed. they have a responsibility to deliver taxpayer value. value for dollar. but now is not the time for that. >> you know, daniel, before we let you go, ways shocked that these disasters are costing americans, the average american household $400 every year. that's, that's a huge cost, and as we talk about sort of the long-term goals here to be more fiscally prudent, more fiscally sound, one of the goals should probably be not sticking the american taxpayer with a $400 price tag for disasters and thinking about long-term solutions to mitigate the damage and better preparedness and dare i say it, maybe have a policy

that encourage as more, levels out our, the extremities in terms of weather-related events, if we can in fact do that. >> well, you're right. and in fact, we should think of the $400 per household federal spending as our extreme weather tax. in addition, we put together this estimate, the federal government doesn't even know itself how much money it's spending on federal disasters. but most importantly, and the recent years we've cut money to help communities become more resilient, to tornadoes, super storms, drought and other extreme weather events. we need to as representative capps has proposed to create dedicated source of revenue to help communities prepare. just down the road in tulsa, they have actually taken some federal money, working with business, do do that. and their community has reduced the number of damaging floods. thanks to such investments. we need to do that nationwide. >> daniel weiss from the center

for american progress, thanks for your time. >> thank you for having me on this sad day. after the break, in times of tragedy, there are also moments of hope and inspiration, we will look at some of the positive stories, when we speak with former oklahoma governor, brad henry coming up next. ♪ [ laughs ] whoo. ♪ oh. nice! great! [ laughs ] a shot like that calls for a postgame celebration. [ male announcer ] share what you love with who you love. kellogg's frosted flakes. they're gr-r-eat! i don't have to leave my desk and get up and go to the post office anymore. [ male announcer ] with stamps.com you can print real u.s. postage for all your letters and packages. i have exactly the amount of postage i need, the instant i need it. can you print only stamps? no...

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we saw it in the oklahoma bombing and 1995. >> and certainly governor, we will be pulling for this community to be resilient to come together and i know the nation really is, is focused on this as a time for us to come together and think about the community and what we can do in the long-term to maybe mitigate the effects of this and hopefully do what we can to make sure it doesn't happen again. thanks so much for your time. sorry we have to leave it there and thank you to bob and dan for their time today. be sure to watch part two of dan's special report on immigration, the san miguel gate airs tonight on access,

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