learned today. i learned that you are for the irs and the justice department snooping. >> you are all people believe in fairness and balance. i was providing a little bit of fairness and balance. >> someone has to do it, i guess. >> they watch your show in australia and two australians at steve's house said i shouldn't call them ratner. >> i know something about providence from the woman. >> that was an incredible story. >> some remarkable stories out of oklahoma city in moore. mark picks the one closet that doesn't collapse and others pile in a bathtub. this lady hearing she is not going to survive. way too early. it's "morning joe." chuck todd is straight ahead in new york. >> oklahoma's recovery effort

continues this morning as stories of survival and heroism emerge from the wreckage of monday's devastating storm. live to the scene for the latest on the clean up. back in washington, very busy. major developments as the senate's immigration bill makes it out of committee and a key figure at the center of the irs mess makes a plea. is the time right for anthony wiener's come back? the race for mayor is about to get more interesting. good morning from new york city. this is t"the daily rundown," im chuck todd. more on the boston bombing case out of orlando. someone being questioned tried to attack an fbi agent was shot to death. rescue teams are continuing to search moore in south oklahoma city and a massive clean up

operation is under way. survivors share their stories. >> you kind of look up from the floor and i saw the roof being pulled away. >> what was going through your mind at that point? >> that that might be it. that's where they are going to find me. i heard somebody calling out hey, is anybody there and i stuck my hand through the hole i meat and i waved my fingers, i'm over here. they came up and he was like where are you at, buddy? i said you are right on top of me. >> officials say it's too early to say precisely how many died in the storm, but they lowered the death toll to at least 24 people including nine children. 237 were injured in this storm. officially called a category e f5 tornado among the strongest

ever recorded. it ripped through with winds up to 210 miles per hour with a path of destruction. the governor called the disaster one of the worst in the state's history. >> in many places homes were absolutely destroyed, taken away. there sticks and bricks basically. it was surreal coming up on the school because there was no school. just debris. >> the president received updates overnight and will be briefed this morning. he vows full support for as long as it takes. while fema administrator is on the ground along with personnel supporting the response spoke this morning about the most critical needs. >> right now is about getting people a place to stay who lost their homes. if they did have insurance to

register with fema and provide assistance and seeing what needs to be done to begin the recovery. >> tom cole represented moore, oklahoma for more than a decade. he grew up in the area. thanks for coming out under these horrific circumstances. can you update us how many people are displaced? what's the status of power and mobile phones and all those issues for people that they are dealing with? >> quite a bit for people to dole with. in terms of the numbers displaced, you are talking several thousand people here. even places where homes were not completely damaged, they are not habitable. access in and out is extroemly difficult. you have a large problem in terms of cell phones, they are operational, but the volume makes it spoty and difficult. land lines are down over most of

the city. they are being put up quickly again. our utility people are used to dealing with tornados and quite a bit of power out. my home doesn't have power, but it's going to take a while. that again even in areas where there was no actual damage from the hurricane in my neighborhood, my wife had to leave because there was no water and power. she was with my son south of here. many families are dealing with much worse situations. there is an awful lot of people that have been displaced because of the storm. >> right now fema i know is bringing in temporary tents and things like that. other issues and things that folks need there. what's the shelter situation right now? are there enough places? >> there really are. the problem is always matching

people up with what they need. we have a couple of immediate shelters in the area. the president made dorm rooms available at the university. i think they are housing over 100 people down there now. lots of churches and family and friends. just take people in. when you saw this on the scale after katrina, we had shelters set up here for people being evacuated out of that area that were never used because we found people are resourceful and quickly want to get with family and friends as opposed to staying in a shelter when those are provided. there is temporary disruption at the beginning, but the process is moving smoothly. >> tom coburn, the junior senator there in oklahoma believes there is enough money that extra aid won't be necessary for the clean up. do you agree with that

assessment? >> it's early to tell, but tom may be right and if we can do this within the scope of what's available, i believe they are responsible. the important thing and i know tom would agree is to get help for people who would need it. he was on the ground with the entire delegation yesterday. we will work through the political and the funding problem, but so far the help has been here and when we asked for it, the federal government response has been excellent and so is the state government. by happen stance, we have the same mayor and the same city manager that dealt with 99. believe me, sadly we have a lot of practice and we know what we are doing. >> the congressman from moore, oklahoma. thanks very much. >> thank you. >> despite all the politics playing out in washington, there is another story. immigration. that train keeps moving forward boy a 13-5 vote.

the senate committee on tuesday approved the sweeping bipartisan reform legislation that leads the senate floor. >> mr. chairman, the votes are 13 days out. >> it passes. >> it happened at every committee mark. they joined two other republicans and the gang of eight were on the committee to back the bill. he was able to secure changes to the provisions for the high skilled foreign workers. he is not committed to voting when it comes to the floor. it was not without drama. president protem of the senate made a passionate appeal for those who may have recognized the marriages of same-sex spouses and the chairman pulled

the amendment. >> i don't want to be the senator who asked americans to choose between the love of their life and the love of their country. discriminating against the segment of americans as to who they love is a travesty that is ripping many families apart. >> the chairman could have brought it up, but he got rolled as it became clear as they were getting the bill passed at any cost. he may be the chairman and may be 30 in line to the presidency, but when they voice objections, schumer's argument prevailed. >> your passion is known, but i want to let you know there is a lot of passion out there about people who disagree with you on marriage. and we will will have this debate. it should be done outside this bill because to get immigration reform done, you have to get people who disagree on marriage

to agree on imfwramarriage. >> as much as i disagree with theirs, they made it perfectly clear in plain words and multiple occasion fist this prohave diminution is added to the bill, they will have no choice as senator gramm said to abandon our collective effort. >> i will withhold the leahy amendment seven at this point and will not be before us now at this mark up and we will go to final passage soon. >> i say this with a heavy heart. >> the stream court overturns doma, it may be removed anyway. pay are nat giving the gang of any excuses. they seem to be as tight knits any group on capitol hill in a long time. the republican leader said he will not block the bill from being debated on the floor.

>> i think the gang of eight made a substantial contribution to move in the issue forward. i am told that the committee has not undone the agreement done with the aid senators. i am hopeful that we can get a bill passed. >> they may not vote for it. sticking points remain in the house where after brewing optimism there will be agreement. they balk over whether the 11 million immigrants who came illegally should be eligible for health care subsidies. the house should be a side show on this issue. no evidence that connects the irs's targeting with the white house and the president or the reelection campaign. doesn't mean they don't have a pr problem on their hands. on any other day on who knew what you and the irs would be dominated. about 20 minutes from now for

the first time, they plan toic ta the fifth. the irs director has been subpoenaed to appear in a house hearing and her lawyer said she will invoke her right against self incrimination and refuse to answer any questions. she hads not committed a crime or meat misrepresentation, but she has no choice to appear and requiring her has no purpose than to embarrass or burden her. senators heard from for the first time yesterday and they were not satisfied with his answers. >> who did know? you read the report and you were the commissioner. >> never lie unless you have to and if you don't have a good lie, stick to the truth. >> i deeply am saddened by the seven-day forcast events. i read the report and i regret

that it happened and that it happened on my watch. >> is that an apology? >> to your constituents, i don't know the details of your constituents and what happened to them. >> you didn't mention this in your responses to the senate or any other congressional body. mr. miller, that's a lie by omission. there is no question about that in my mind. it's a lie by omission. >> i did not lie. >> how do you not apologize. the senator was begging him. he refused to apologize to c conservative and 53 party groups. >> i am not personally responsible for creating a list that had inappropriate criteria on it. >> you are in the area where it's every man and woman for themselves. steven miller, the outgoing head of the irs did take

responsibility for the exposed scandal by planting a question in the audience at a tax conference. >> we thought we should begin talking about this and get out an apology. the way we did it, we wanted to reach out to the hill staff about the same time and come out brief did not work out. the entire thing was a bad idea. >> obviously. the white house is struggling to handle a largely self inflicted pr mess. the explanation about when they learn of the irs explanation is changed. the fifth day in a row after telling reporters that the senior staff did learn of the situation nearly a month ago. jay carney revealed that the white house officials including their own new unofficial crisis manager actually consulted with the treasury about how to make the findings public. all the while not telling the

president. >> there were discussions about the timing of the release of this information and the findings of the report. the only two instances that those discussions encompass were the discussion about the possibility of a speech which as i understand did not happen and the possibility that the commissioner would give a question in testimony about these issues and whether or not what he would say in response to that. >> we will find out today whether jay carney has additional information about how the white house knew about the i irs mess. we will have more on this and oklahoma and anthony wiener. it's a busy morning to pack into one hour. for the first time since the controversy began, we will see an irs official take the fifth.

senator john thune will be here on the show next. we have election results. los angeles plus a little something we have been watching at the polls in another west coast city that will surprise you. first a look ahead at the politics planner. jay carney's birthday briefing at 1:00. maybe we should give him a birthday present and give him the day off. "the daily rundown" only on msnbc. alright, now for the best part. ooh, let's get those in the bowl. these are way too good to waste, right? [ male announcer ] share what you love with who you love. kellogg's frosted flakes. they're gr-r-reat! it's time... for aveeno® positively radiant face moisturizer. [ female announcer ] only aveeno® has an active naturals total soy formula that instantly brightens skin. and helps reduce the look of brown spots in just 4 weeks. for healthy radiant skin.

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key players in the irs scandal were summoned back to testify. douglas shullman doubled down in the decision not to flag the problem. >> don't you think that you

should have an obligation to clarify or correct that statement? you made in front of the house. >> i had a partial set of facts and i knew the inspector general would look into it and i knew it was being stopped and sitting there, sitting here today, i made the right decision which is to let the inspector general get to the bottom of it. chase down all the facts and then make his findings public. >> joining me now, republican senator who is a member of the senate republican congress. good morning to you. >> how are you? >> the former commissioner shullman, what i was confused by the answer and maybe you have better clarity in the hearing. did he say he did not attempt to stop this himself? he waited for the inspector to finish the investigation and did

not guarantee that it was stopped? are. >> his answer was not clear. he was not going to disclose anything. he found out about it in may and when i raised the question, it was in wrchs to the testimony hoe furnished in march. he was made aware of this and they didn't do anything to stop it. they allowed it to continue and washed their hands of it. that's a big problem. he said he thinks he made the right decision and mostly the american people would disagree. >> is your take away that the irs was in the midst of closing ranks amongst themselves and were they trying to put up walls and shelter themselves rather than sharing what was going on? >> it seems that was the case. both shullman and steve miller the acting commissioner sort of

just yesterday like they have done before said we were not responsible and we didn't know. somebody knows. they will be in front of the house and take the fifth, but i think it really raises eyebrows in the court of public opinion. it so manies like they tried to sweep it under the carpet hoping it would go away for as long as possible. in the middle of the season, it would have been explosive. they appear to try to keep this thing under wraps and they knew the report was coming out and they tried to get ahead boy having miss learner drop the bomb at the conference. the whole thing smells of manipulation and it's unfortunate. it unravelled to the point where there a lot of people who got hurt by this. the trust of the american people has been hurt. you convinced that this was an irs issue and it didn't seep

out and other entities were not involved? is. >> i tried to ask the conversations that they had and the deputy secretary of the treasury department and the council has been reported new about this as early as june of last year. whether or not shullman or miller had conversations and they said they were not aware of conversations of the treasury department. on the other hand they informed them. it seems like as we try to figure out who knew what, when and where it leads. that's the reason we need additional hearings and the opportunity to get more facts out. >> a couple of quick issues and the ging of eight bill. are you ready to support this? >> we need to get it on the floor. it will take a while to move it across the floor and will be open to the process. things in at this time bill they put that i like and things i like to see improve. we will see what it locks like after we move through.

>> sounds like you are finding more reasons to be for it than bens it. >> there a lot of good things in it and i'm in favor of the skill base they have in there. the legalization issue is always the sticky part. >> you have a preference in the other senate seat? >> i want to be a republican, chuck. i will be working hard to make sure that happens. you going to stay out of the primary? >> this will get resolved. it's important for me that we have a strong candidate that can win that seat. the first time since 1960 that we would have all three seats. >> what is the stronger candidate? are. >> they both bring things and we have seen other places where you have a wounded candidate in the fall and a tough general election battle. i think that the key for me is

as much as we can, smooth this out and make sure we have a strong candidate. >> you have dodged that question three times about who you are going to support this that primary. fair enough. i will leave it there. >> nice to be with you. thanks. >> much more ahead on the clean up effort in oklahoma and developing news out of florida related to the boston marathon am boing. pete williams will be here with the latest. a little trivia for you. who was the first republican to be elected lieutenant governor of oklahoma. the first correct answer gets a shout out [ jackie ] it's just so frustrating...

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. nbc learned that a deadly shooting in orlando is connected to one of the boston marathon suspects. let's bring in pete williams. this was a bizarre story the way it ended. explain everything that just happened. >> law enforcement officials say a man was shot in florida boy an fbi agent over night. the man was not suspected of playing any in the boston marathon bombings. the victim is 27 years old and being questioned as part of the fbi defined with any contact of the brothers. the older bombing suspect they said spent time in the boston area where he was a mixed martial arts fighter and the older son was there, they say. they were locking at whether he

might have had a in the murder where three men were murdered in an apartment in massachusetts. their throats were cut and theirs were covered in marijuana. no suspects have been arrested in that case. they were questioning him on tuesday and say at first he was cooperative and late tuesday night he became i have well ept and attacked the agent who then shot and killed him. he had some some connections with radical chechyan rebels, but it's not clear if he had a in the radicalizing. >> taking place in orlando with some connection of what's going on in the investigation. live pictures here on capitol hill and the house oversight hearing. we are expected to hear from irs including the former commissioner. woe are not expected to hear much.

they are exempt in the irs and hoe is not committed any crime or misrepresentation and take the courts of pleading the fifth because she doesn't want to deal with the hearings that has no purpose she believes in burdening them. we'll be right back. barely move. i don't have any muscles left. [ sighs ] [ chuckles ] you should really clean your ceiling fan. are you kidding me? you're gonna just throw away the last hour? no, it's only 15 calories. [ male announcer ] with reddi wip, fruit never sounded more delicious. at least i can die happy. [ male announcer ] and hard work won't have to go to waste. mmm. [ male announcer ] with 15 calories per serving and real cream, the sound of reddi wip is the sound of joy. i'm goining to dream about t that steaka. i'i'm going toto dream about thatat tiramisu.u. gsz whwhat a nightht, huh?

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skr joplin. i see there is a lot of conversations about this time when they rebuild in moore, maybe there will be mandatory that any house hads a safe room or shelter. >> it's a good point because i'm standing in front of one of the houses that has one and our colleague chris jansing will take us inside in the next hour and give us a tour of the bunker that saved their lives and saved the lives of their neighbors across the whose house was gone. i want to give you an idea of the scope of damage here. out of respect for the items that we are seeing here, i am not going through all this, but the e f5 tornado on monday, we have the christmas items and toys and antique camera here in

the front of the yard remains to be picked up. one of the more interesting things, you can see urn the vehicle right there. it is pinned under negotiate the car itself. interesting low a family down the street rode out the storm in a bathtub. they core their motorcycle helmets as they covered their three little girls. they all survived and not a scratch on their heads and their house is completely gone. we had a little bit of drama has the police came boy asking everybody to move off the street. if i can ask you to show you what the street turned into. such a big media story. every truck in town and around the country showed up. now the neighbors are trying to get the street back approximate. i for one don't blame them. most hickly in the next hour and for my hour from a different

location. we will keep you posted. >> members of the oklahoma national guard are still searching if are survivors. joining me now on the phone is the lieutenant colonel moss. what is your mission right now for the folks down there in moore? >> as it has been since the beginning, about 200 oklahoma army and air national guardsmen are know continuing to support first responders and law enforce am. >> there concerns about two things in a storm situation like this. looting and shelter. what can you mow about the situations? >> the looting has not been a big problem that we have seen.

we are manning security check points around the perimeter of the devastated area. the churches and the community have come together. obviously family and friends affected by the terrible tornado to provide sheller for those who have been harmed. >> we are still in a search and rescue mode? any new hope of finding more survivors? >> i believe that everyone's thoughts on the fwround thgroun everyone has been recovered. this is more of a search and recovery operation for us now. >> colonel max on the frowned there. thanks for your work and service. >> thank you, sir. >> we will go back to capitol hill where in a few minutes,

lois learner will be at the center of this controversy. conservative groups and she will be taking the fifth. we will hear a lot from congress on this issue. let's take a listen in. >>. >> the director of exempt organizations, rulings and agreements, division of the irs. a tremendous amount of attention centered about the inspector general in court of our investigation. the committee learned that from this pause that she in fact participated in an irs investigation that concluded in may of 2012, may 3rd found the same thing that mr. george found more than a year later. >> think about it. for more than a year the irs knew that it had inproeappropriy

targeted groups and without mentioning it and in fact without honestly answering questions that were the result of this internal investigation. many people believe that the irs is an independent agency. nothing can be further from the truth. we define it deliberate low as less political. it has two appointees and carefully skr lly skrut noised are protecting american people's rights. in fact the commissioner, former commissioner who is with us today will tell us he reports to the deputy of treasury. he is a subordinate of a cabinet officer. it is not an agency that gets to do what it wants or can't be challenged by treasury. as a result we discover that not only did she know about this, learn about this and participate

in the irs's internal investigation, but she also played a role in the ig's report or investigation. we were shocked to find that she participated in virtually every one of the interrogation and interviews and subordinates. one of the questions they had to ask was did anyone you to do this? if that question was asked, their own superior was in the room. although it,a pours as though this was signed off by the ig, this committee fines it inappropriate. inappropriate for any inspector inspecting wrong-doing within an against to include those who participated willingly in this

activity. it's also unclear why the general did form the committee of his findings when he became aware no later than july of 2012. >> here's where i take the liberty of the committee. despite numerous requests from the committee for information and updates including an august throwrd letter, the request for the ig to inform congress about serious or flag rapt problems quickly, the ig failed to do that. ladies and gentlemen, that is existing law. that is under the ig act and under their responsibility since the 70s. we in fact on this committee both support, defend, promote the igs, but must also insist particularly after situations

like the gsa scandal they dealt with that we not wait ten months to find out that there is a there there. that in fact is perhaps the greatest failing of an otherwise well-regarded inspector. you will be looking at how the things went so wrong and how multiple wrong-doings occurred and no one in position of authority so maeems to know anyg about it. it puts higher priority on deniability than addressing late and wrong-doing. the american people don't expect perfection. many of them working very hard and i trying to do the best to make mistakes. a few make wrong-doing and do so deliberately. the buck has to stop somewhere. in this investigation the buck will stop with this committee.

this committee will not stop this investigation until we know that the irs is fixed. in a one-on-one interview short le after his report, i asked the inspector general a simple question that i expected to have a mixed answer on. the question was is this the only time? could this happen again? in fact, his answer to me in an unambiguous way is they are not happening in the irs meaning the american people today should not have confidence that this is an isolated incident, but rather like the days of enron and worldcom, you asked the question, has congress made this organization auditable and accountable the way they make us some i paid a lot of taxes in my

life. we know one thing. you cannot say you are doing the right thing and expect them to take your word and the check you send in. documentation and the ability to verify is essential when dealing with the i are, s. we expect no less when we deal with them. i now recognize the ranking member. >> i thank you for calling this very important hearing. you are absolutely right. this is more important than one election. the revelations that have come forward so far provide us with a moment of transformation. not transformation for a moment, but for generations to come.

generations why the unborn. that's why this hearing must be about two essential things. truth and trust. the american people expect the irs to exercise responsibilities in a fair and nonpartisan manner. when the irs reaches that trust, it daniels the ability of the agency to implement the nation's tax laws effectively and efficiently. they called the actions by our employees in cincinnati inappropriate. after reading the report, i think it goes well beyond that. i believe there was gross incompetence and mismanagement

in how the irs determined which organizations qualified for tax exempt status. again, this is about truth and trust. by now we have all heard how irs employees used terms like tea party and patriots to single out conservative groups for enhanced scrutiny. the report discusses how some cases took more than three years to resolve. ladies and gentlemen, we are better than that. we are simply better than that. irs staff stopped working for more than a year from october 2010 through november 2011.

while they waited for guidance from supervisors on how to process these applications. >> as we wait for lois learner to plead the fifth, let's bring in the editor in chief, ben smith. we did not tie anything or iron our shirts today. a managing editor of "time" magazine's pleading the fifth. thank you guys for looking your best. >> we are coordinated. >> ever since then, that's why i bring that up. >> i feel like one of these. >> my grandma dorothy is going to e-mail you. >> i want to start with you since you are giving mow a hard time. the white house every day

trickled out a new piece of information. that part of the story is a side show in many respects. it added to the pr. >> they have not made crystal clear how this happened. i think that would go a long way. they are coming from the top and the bottom was a sense that the stream court had gone too far. this stuff has to be enforced. this has not been made clear. exact low how was it implemented? >> i want to go where they are doing the fifth. now the rest of the public, this is an automatic -- geez. if she is afraid of putting herself in a criminal situation, there is no presumption. it's over. >> we were talking about this before. this is the next several months if not year for the

administration. there was a point made yesterday by pat toomey and until you know who ordered those, how can you say? you cannot say. >> i had this theory, imagine somebody is beating up on you a million over and they say, oh, by the way, can you approve my application for something? is it beyond the realm of human nature that some irs staffer in cincinnati thinks, oh, and they want this special exemption and they think that i'm like the worst thing. >> right, none of that is beyond -- >> no. that's what i mean, it's not the realm of imagination. >> but to ben's point and we don't know what's happened, and it is going to drag on and that's so frustrating because it's classic second term sort of problems that are going to derail much more important things that we would like to be talking about like immigration, like taxes. . i could keep going. >> we could keep going and we're going to take a quick break. sneak a break in. give you the trivia answer.

first republican to be elected lieutenant governor of oklahoma. the answer is mary fallin, making her the first republican and first woman to hold the office. congratulations to today's winner, it sounds fun to say john vogt in new york city. if you've got a political question, e-mail us. for our families...

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during the break, elijah cummings lecturing lernor and saying he's disappointed she's pleading the fifth. although there are some people in new york city that would like certain candidates for mayor to plead the fifth and not talk, and that's not the case with anthony weiner. we are in your town, he's making the news. he's the story everyone's going to be talking about all day. nobody thinks he can win. everybody thinks he's a factor. >> he's definitely a factor. he's pulling in 15%, which is

where he was in the last poll. >> 100% name i.d. >> 100%, at least. he -- i don't know how much growth potential he has. the question is, is 15% his ceiling or floor? this guarantees a runoff and he could be one of the two people in the runoff. >> and the most important thing about the issue, as i understand, chris quinn not the most liberal candidate. arguably the most conservative, she can't survive a runoff is what a lot of people think, but she can get 41% in a smaller field. >> it's unclear whether he's the most liberal in the race, the most conservative. the most conservative candidate as he was three years ago. it's unclear who he's going to be. >> i'm talking about chris quinn, this hurts her, right? >> right, she's seen as the front runner. i think the current thing, anybody can survive a runoff with anthony weiner. none of these people are sort of compelling larger than life figures of the kind that drive the new york conversation.

and this race is going to be all about him. >> that's what strikes me, weiner has the most interesting ideas. he's throwing them all out there. i'm serious. >> it's true. but depends on which of those ideas he's going to embrace. somebody who has called for single payer taxpayer systems, tax cuts, and who is he? and then there's the creepy factors. >> are you interested in his ideas? >> and wow, with that, there's no time for shameless plugs. puts a reference in there. i think you win. that's why you're the buzz feed man. thank you. stay with msnbc for the latest on this irs hearing, we'll be on the ground in oklahoma in the next couple of hours, that's it for this daily edition of "rundown." chris jansing is coming up next. while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain

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expecting to plead the fifth. take a listen. >> and yet, they expect us to believe it was just the work of a couple employees. two rogue agents in cincinnati. and finally, mr. chairman, i would say this, subject this committee knows something about. this administration -- this administration which told us and told the american people that the attack that killed four americans in benghazi was the work was caused by a video is now the same administration who expects us to believe that this scandal was just the result of two rogue agents in cincinnati. mr. chairman, the people don't buy it, the american people get it, and they just want -- they just want this administratio