expecting to plead the fifth. take a listen. >> and yet, they expect us to believe it was just the work of a couple employees. two rogue agents in cincinnati. and finally, mr. chairman, i would say this, subject this committee knows something about. this administration -- this administration which told us and told the american people that the attack that killed four americans in benghazi was the work was caused by a video is now the same administration who expects us to believe that this scandal was just the result of two rogue agents in cincinnati. mr. chairman, the people don't buy it, the american people get it, and they just want -- they just want this administration to give them the truth.

and that's why this hearing is so important. and i yield back. >> i thank the gentleman. i understand mr. lynch will -- on behalf of the ranking member, mr. lynch is recognized. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. i want to thank you and the ranking member for holding this hearing and i'd also like to thank the witnesses for coming forward and helping the committee with its work. mr. chairman, each year the state department releases its country report on human rights. and practices, it's a comprehensive assessment of human rights conditions across the world. notably the overview of the report released this year provides sustainable democracy means more than just elections and includes a call from president obama's remarks at the united nations in september of 2012. defining true democracy. as dependent on the freedom of citizens to speak their minds and assemble without fear on the rule of law and due process that guarantees the rights of all

people, the country report goes on to conclude these elements of democracy, particularly the freedom of expression, and the freedom of speech face serious threats around the globe in 2012. i wanted to point to a couple of examples offered by our own state department. the people's republic of china provides freedom of speech and freedom in the press. the report states that authorities generally do not respect these rights in practice. in particular, those who made politically sensitive comments in public speeches, academic discussions and comments to the media remain subject to punitive measures. and the government frequently monitored gathering of intellectual scholars or dissidents where political issues were discussed. and specifically in the republic of belarus, the national constitution provides for freedom of speech and freedom of press. >> again, watching live pictures of capitol hill where a house oversight committee hearing into the irs treatment of certain

conservative groups applying for tax exempt status. that being discussed. lois lerner, and we expect her to plead the fifth. kelly o'donnell is watching this along with us. and kelly, what do we expect today? >> well, you already get a sense, richard, there will be a lot of tension. there are members on this committee who feel personally very frustrated that their letters and inquiries to the irs were either not responded to or they have information that appears to be false. there will be fireworks here. the fact that lois lerner is taking the fifth, that's her constitutional right, the attorney notified the committee in advance. senator cummings says he will honor her right to do that. and there will be a lot of pressure to get more out of the other witnesses than we've seen in some of the earlier hearings. part of what has been frustrating to senators and members of the house has been an

inability to find out exactly who set up this plan to have certain groups targeted by name for extra scrutiny when they were applying for tax exempt status and trying to get to more of this. we already heard the ohio congressman jim jordan saying this is not about two rogue agents. he's claiming that the administration's trying to pin it on a couple of people at a lower level. his contention is that it's bigger than that. the investigation is still kind of unfolding to find out how high it does go. we learned from some of the irs leaders that they had been aware of some of this last year, chose not to tell congress in part because the i.g. report was not complete. >> kelly o'donnell watching that hearing on capitol hill. thank you so much. we'll continue to keep an eye on that in washington, d.c. we're here in new york, we're now going to throw it over to moore, oklahoma. chris jansing there reporting live yesterday and today. good morning to you, chris.

and looks like we have some technical difficulties. chris jansing there live in moore, oklahoma, reporting on now what is day two after that what is now an ef-5 tornado touching down in what was a 10 to 20-mile long swath of an area of a very small town. chris jansing who was reporting at a location close to the center of all of the destruction that has been such a common scene over the last couple of days and as they look at how they can recover and get the resources to the kilo occasions throughout the area as thousands and thousands of households do not have access to basic utilities. they don't have access to the resources they need. the red cross on the ground as well as many other organizations trying to work through the

difficulties now on a wednesday. i believe we have connection with chris. chris jansing, let's give it one more go. and we understand things are rough and tumble there, not only on the ground, but also for us as we try to get the news out of there. >> yeah, it's been a little crazy. i think we've got a lot of movement here. you know, we're trying to sort of minimize the footprint here because people are still coming up and starting the cleanup now that they've really finished going through all of these homes here. it really is just the beginning for survivors of the tornado. it is also the beginning of an escalating debate over federal funding for disaster relief. and i want to start with the latest here on the ground. after first responders finished that house to house search late yesterday, the death toll does remain a revised 24. that's less than half of what officials first reported. but the storm was also stronger than we first thought. now confirmed yesterday as a highest category, ef-5, at least

2,400 homes have been damaged or destroyed affecting 10,000 people. now, homeland security secretary janet napolitano is headed to moore today where she's going to check on the federal response. and then she goes to joplin, missouri, after that where it's the two-year anniversary of the twister there that killed 161 people and flattened more than 8,000 homes and businesses. and missouri officials are pressing for more federal funding here. both of oklahoma's senators have repeatedly voted against disaster aid for other parts of the country, including hurricane sandy victims. >> look, $11.8 billion in fema, it's not a legitimate question. and i was asked that question yesterday before we even knew how many people had died. so it's inappropriate. the fact is we've got a lot of waste in the federal government and rather than borrow money than the people we're trying to help, we ought to eliminate the waste. it's not going to be a problem. we have plenty of money already set aside to take care of this.

>> and the senator told me yesterday the sandy bill was weighed down with too many other projects. >> that was totally different. they were getting things, for instance that was supposed to be in new jersey. they had things in the virgin islands, fixing roads there, putting roofs on houses in washington, d.c. everybody was getting in and exploiting the tragedy that took place. that won't happen in oklahoma. >> well, today the house appropriations committee is expected to vote on what is normally a relatively routine bill that would give fema an additional $6.2 billion for disaster relief. now, of course, if you live here, disaster relief is anything but routine. i want to bring in oklahoma's lieutenant governor. lieutenant governor, it's good to see you again. >> thanks, chris, thanks for being here. >> let's start at the baseline, we learned yesterday this is a 17-mile path of destruction. i've heard estimates of $1 billion in damage. what can you tell us?

>> i've heard the same thing. unconfirmed, i've not seen official information, but roughly $1 billion or over in property damage, that's significant, that's huge and there's going to be a lot of recovery in the days, weeks and months ahead. >> is there a good rule of thumb? how much of a number like that might be covered by insurance? >> that's a great question. i don't have the answer to that. depends on deductible, coverage, there are a lot of factors that we need to consider for that. you know, business structures, personal structures, schools, what was state owned, city owned, et cetera, et cetera. there are a lot of issues that go into that still. >> and a lot of conversations that will have to be had, what would you want to tell them? >> well, thank you for coming, for one. thank you also, chris, for being here. i don't know if you've slept. >> probably more than you. >> you've been here nonstop, but thank you for coming and covering this. and i want to thank the secretary for coming and seeing firsthand. if you can see the images on television, you can attest to this. it's not like what you see at

firsthand and see the damage. i thank you for being here, thank you for the federal assistance she's provided thus far. this is going to be days, weeks, months before moore is cleaned up. >> some of the discussion has centered on who should have, how many people should have storm shelters. and there is a cost factor one. apparently you can get a pre-fab one for your house for about $4,000, although i'm told $8,000 to $10,000 is a better estimate. i took a tour of the storm shelter of the man that lives in a house we're standing in front of and i want to give people a sense of perspective and play that for them. >> about ten minutes before the hurricane hit, you decided to go down, right? >> yes, we went down. >> this came with the house? >> yes, it did. >> i'll let you go down first and i'll follow you. >> and you had everything prepped down here, didn't you? >> yes, i did. >> what was in here? >> computer, all of our box that

had our titles to our cars, birth certificates, credit cards and stuff like that. everything was already on those shelves and everything. and all we had to do was just walk down. >> how big is this? >> i think it's probably a 12 by 14. >> and who was in here? >> my wife and donny and scott -- >> neighbors? >> two neighbors. >> so you're in here and you hear what you first think is hail, right? >> yeah. >> but it wasn't? >> it wasn't. it was my two neighbors. and so i opened up the door and then they came down and i locked it and then i came back over here on the corner and i told them, you better come this way a little bit in case that door gets sucked off there, y'all are going to go with it. and as soon as they stepped over like this, that's when we heard it go by. and those vents right there, i was looking at the vents and you could see the debris just flying. and i go, i think everything's gone.

>> how close was it from the time you let your neighbors down here? >> it was about a minute. >> and i saw his house across the street, it's gone. >> it's gone. >> if he hadn't come down here. >> yeah. >> if you hadn't opened that door. >> yeah, they'd be gone. >> i mean, it gives you chills to think that your neighbor is pounding on the door of your storm shelter and you're thinking is it hail? if he hadn't opened that door, if he hadn't let him go down there, i don't think there's anybody's doubt that those two people, his neighbors would not have survived this. so it does seem like a no-brainer, but help us understand why only 10% of people in towns like this have these storm shelters. >> it's a personal choice. you can decide if you want to put a shelter in or not. we don't have a shelter at my home. just three days ago, my family did what just happened there. my family, my wife, our kids went next door to our neighbors, pounded on the door, went inside their shelter. >> how much is money? and how much is culture? there's been talk, for example,

in joplin, legislating that people have to have these. >> sure. that's a personal decision. and if you live in oklahoma, if you live in tornado alley, you get somewhat accustomed to tornadoes coming. they're not all as severe as we've witnessed here. but if you're in this corridor, the third time in 14 years, something to think about. i think you'll see a public debate on securing and having shelters for schools. >> well, these two schools that were directly in the path of this storm, they're going to have to be rebuilt. would you imagine they'd be rebuilt without a storm shelter of some sort? >> they would be very tough to imagine. he told me those structures are relatively older structures when those schools were built, newer schools often have shelters or more of a safe room environment. but when those schools are rebuilt, i think you'll see a very healthy discussion. public discussion on shelters being in place. >> thank you very much, lieutenant governor for being here for all you've done for the last few days. we're going to take a quick

break. we'll be back with more from moore right after this. >> she came running to us. she was fine. and everything's gone. she's alive. we're alive. la's known definitely for its traffic, congestion, for it's smog. but there are a lot of people that do ride the bus. and now that the busses are running on natural gas, they don't throw out as much pollution to the earth. so i feel good. i feel like i'm doing my part to help out the environment. welwhere new york state is... investing one billion dollars to attract and grow business. where companies like geico are investing in technology & finance. welcome to the state where cutting taxes for business...

is our business. welcome to the new buffalo. welcome to the new buffalo. welcome to the new buffalo. new york state is throwing out the old rule book to give your business a new edge, the edge you can only get in new york state. to grow our start your business, visit thenewny.com lois lerner giving her opening statement. let's take a listen. >> this is over 60,000 applications for tax exemption every year. as director, i'm responsible for about 900 employees nationwide and administer a budget of almost $100 million. my professional career has been devoted to fulfilling

responsibilities of the agencies for which i have worked and i'm very proud of the work that i have done in government. on may 14th, the treasury inspector general released a report finding that the exempt organizations field office used inappropriate criteria to identify for further review applications from organizations that planned to engage in political activity which may mean that they did not qualify for tax exemption. on that same day, the department of justice launched an investigation into the matters described in the inspector generals report. in addition, members of this committee have accused me of providing false information when i responded to questions about the irs processing of the applications for tax exemption. i have not done anything wrong. i have not broken any laws, i have not violated any irs rules or regulations, and i have not

provided false information to this or any other congressional committee. and while i would very much like to answer the committee's questions today, i've been advised by my counsel to assert my constitutional right not to testify or answer questions related to the subject matter of this hearing. after very careful consideration, i've decided to follow my counsel's advice and not testify or answer any of the questions today. because i'm asserting my right not to testify, i know that some people will assume that i've done something wrong. i have not. one of the basic functions of the fifth amendment is to protect innocent individuals and that is the protection i'm invoking today. thank you. >> thank you for your testimony. ms. lerner, earlier the ranking member made me aware of a response we have that is purported to come from you in

regards to questions that the i.g. asked during his investigation. can we have you authenticate simply the questions and answers previously given to the inspector general? >> i don't know what that is. i'd have to look at it. >> would you please make it available to the witness?

>> this appears to be my response. >> it's your testimony that as far as your recollection that is your response? >> that's correct. >> the topic of today's hearing is the irs improper targeting of certain groups for additional scrutiny regarding their application for tax exempt status. as director, of exempt organizations of the division of the irs, you are uniquely positioned to provide testimony to help this committee better understand how and why the irs targeted these groups. to that end, i must ask you to reconsider particularly in light of the fact that you have given not once but twice testimony before this committee under oath

this morning. you have made an opening statement in which you made assertions of your innocence, assertions you did nothing wrong, assertions you broke no laws or rules. additionally, you have authenticated earlier answers to the i.g. at this point, i believe you have not asserted your rights but effectively waived your rights. will you please seek counsel for further guidance while we wait? >> i will not answer any questions or testify about the subject matter of this committee's meeting. >> we will take your refusal as a refusal to testify. the witness and counsel are dismissed. >> point of order.

>> the gentleman will please wait. >> mr. issa, mr. cummings said we should run this like a courtroom. i agree with him, she testified, she waived her fifth amendment right. you don't get to tell your side of the story and not be subjected to cross-examination. that's not the way it works, she waived her right by issuing an opening statement, she ought to stand here and answer our questions. >> mr. chairman. >> mr. chairman. >> mr. cummings. >> first of all, with all respect for my good friend, i said i'd like to see it run like a federal court. unfortunately, this is not a federal court and she does have a right and we have to adhere to that.

>> thank you. we'll pause for a moment. >> ms. lerner, i'll ask you a couple additional questions. is it possible we could narrow the scope of questions and that there are some areas that you would be able to answer any questions on here today? >> i will not answer any questions or testify today. >> ms. lerner, would you be willing to answer questions specifically related to the earlier statements made under oath before this committee? >> i decline to answer that question for the reasons i've already given. >> for this reason, i have no choice but to excuse the witness subject to recall after we seek

specific counsel on the questions of whether or not the constitutional right of the fifth amendment has been properly waived. notwithstanding that and consultation with the department of justice as to whether or not limited and use of immunity could be negotiated. the witness and counsel are dismissed. the clerk will please rearrange the seating. >> lois lerner leaving that hearing room. and we often use the term on the hot seat, boy was she. and you can hear by the comment of elijah cummings that both democrats and republicans would love some answers from her, but they were not going to be forthcoming today. let me bring in nbc's kelly o'donnell, congressional correspondent on the hill there. kelly, what happens now?

>> well, this is the kind of fireworks we expected. but i think even the committee was not entirely prepared for what just happened. lois lerner had not offered an opening statement in advance. she had notified through her attorney that she would be taking the fifth. so you heard that play out where she was able to effectively testify, assert her innocence, take no additional questions. that's raising some new questions for the committee as you heard the chairman saying that they're going to have to look into this in terms of recalling her. and it's kind of a combination we did not expect. >> hold on a second, kelly. i'm going to interrupt use because he's talking about this. >> there were questions about how it was done. there can be no question that we have to respect it. additionally, that her assertion is not to be viewed or used during this hearing to make any determination plus or minus as to actions that were taken we

have inspector generals with us today. and this committee has more than ten additional witnesses that will be called either to hearings or to interviews already on the schedule. i believe that this committee has a long history of very few during my tenure of 12 years of these occasions and we should not use this for political gain or any indication that it is anything other than someone's right. it is the committee's work to find out what went terribly wrong. i'll take one liberty mentioning mr. cummings' earlier statement. at this point, this committee is not investigating wlong doing for political purposes by high-ranking individuals in or out of this government. we are investigating something that has been entered as fact that wrong doing occurred and occurred over a group.

and that group happened to be keyworded things that are generally called conservative. in my research on this and i think mr. cummings would agree, this is not new to government. this has happened before and it's not always been conservative groups. so as we go through this, i would ask all of us to avoid talking about who is liked by president bush, who is liked by president obama, who is liked by republicans or democrats. let's all be repulicrats and demogans today. >> i appreciate you saying what you just said. and i agree with what you just said. and i would associate myself with your words. >> mr. chairman. >> thank you, seeking recognition. >> gentlemen, yield for one minute. >> a fraction thereof.

>> i want to say the same, i appreciate what the chairman said, i think he's right on target, but the irony is inescapable. ms. lerner gets to exercise her constitutional rights but won't answer questions about the constitutional rights of thousands of americans who were denied by her actions. >> it is this committee's goal to get to the truth if we have to go routes, we will eventually get there. the dots will be connected. with that, would you move over? it'll be less distracting and we'll remove the other chair. >> actually, i'll take note of the gentle lady's statement, she made it very obvious with 90,000 irs individuals, 900 working for her and more or less 9 out of 900 involved in this or maybe slightly more, we're talking

about a fraction of 1%. and i join with the gentleman in recognizing this is not to disparage the men and women of the irs. you're recognized for five minutes. >> so another show of bipartisanship here, kelly. we interrupted you, this was not at all what they were expecting this morning. >> and i think they'll continue to look for ways to find answers and to look at the legality of what took place. you heard them trying to say they support her right to not answer questions in terms of not incriminating herself. that's important for members of congress to do since they swear to uphold the constitution. attempts to turn down the partisanship. this committee and others are trying to get some new information. and when you hear things like fact witnesses, they believe there are officials here who can shed more light, who would be willing to give more answers and who are not taking that oath.

he also made mention, chairman issa of the possibility of limited immunity, that's a term that seems to be new in this discussion. looking for a way to give lois lerner a path to testify without the threat of criminal prosecution. she hired a big-name lawyer william taylor, took his advice, that's what you expect if you're going to retain counsel at that level. it is a hot seat. it makes it somewhat of a spectacle, which lerner wanted to avoid asking the committee not to call her at all. once clear, she would not give answers to their questions. there are a number of members of congress who have been planning their questions, some dealing with their own letters to the irs, their own constituents who might have been involved in the extra scrutiny seeking the tax exempt status. this will continue to be volatile and won't end today. there'll be more hearings, more questioning, more testimony, and the inspector general also said he's trying to provide more

information gathered during his audit of this whole issue to the committee. there could be new stones overturned and new facts to come to life. >> in terms of lois lerner and the possibility of limited immunity, is there any speculation there have been preliminary talks about that with her lawyers? >> i don't want to go beyond what the committee chairman said. we've reached out to her lawyer. he's not discussing that. you can use it in a more general term. the department of justice is doing its own criminal investigation separate from the committee. there could be ways they'd have those conversations. so far, we don't have any specifics on that. more of a scenario that could play out that is certainly within the realm of what we've seen before. i don't know if that's going to impact lois lerner because this is a new event with her taking the fifth today. she already has testimony, sworn testimony a number of different times before the committees and before investigators in this

matter that the ongoing probe can look at. but that might be one way that chairman issa and the ranking member cummings could try to get more answers. there will be variations as we go forward. and as we talk to aides and members, they're finding new ways to pursue this. you saw that surprise today when she believed she waived her right. obviously the committee agrees it's her right and they will respect it. there may be surprises along the way. chris? >> yeah, and raising that because she actually did give that opening statement. i want to play a little portion of that again, kelly. >> i have not done anything wrong. i have not broken any laws, i have not violated any irs rules or regulations, and i have not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee. and while i would very much like to answer the committee's questions today, i've been advised by my counsel to assert

my constitutional right not to testify or answer questions related to the subject matter of this hearing. >> well, as you know, kelly, there's been some skepticism in comments by some members of congress about what lois lerner knew, what she did, when she knew it and/or did it. had she decided to answer some questions, what was likely to be some of the toughest questions she would've faced today? >> well, the intent of this committee is to find out where did this political scrutiny come from. the committee believes there may be a political bias, not just a shorthanding of looking through apply i guess kas for te applic. who came up with this idea, they used an acronym called bolo, be on the lookout for in the

processing for this tax exempt status. so of the officials that have appeared since this broke, there would be a chance for her to be the closest one to when this happened as opposed to the former commissioner or the acting commissioner who were at a higher level and may have more steps between themselves and the people directly involved. they want to know how high up did this go? there's been a question, lois lerner is the one made this public by using a planted question which they've acknowledged at a conference, an american bar association conference. so they had sort of created a news event by having a question planted to ask about the scrutiny of tea party groups and that's when we first learned about this when lois lerner publicly apologized more than a week ago. >> kelly o'donnell, thanks very much. after those dramatic few minutes in that hearing room and we'll continue to look at that throughout the day. also looking ahead to what's next for the people here in moore. i'll be talk to the state representative who represents

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back live in moore, oklahoma. and we're going to get an update this afternoon from homeland security secretary janet napolitano on where the recovery effort stands. it is important to remember how many families there are in moore that lost loved ones, including children. we know that there are at least 24 victims, including 9-year-old jenae hornsby. 9-year-old sidney angle and antonio candelaria and a mother and her child at a local 7-eleven that is absolutely flattened. i want to bring in oklahoma state representative mark mcbride. you've been very kind to wait with us. >> thanks, chris. >> there has been so much positive attitude in this neighborhood. and we've talked about it a lot how people say they're planning to move forward that this is a

resilient community. but there is some grieving ahead that's going to be difficult. >> right. there's nothing like this is easy. the loss of everything. i know my parents lost their home. and i haven't been able to talk to them much. that's tough on my mother and father. they're just in a pile now. >> how are they doing? >> i think they're doing fine. i've been so busy here in moore, i talked to them on the phone. i flew over their home yesterday in a helicopter, it's in the path. i could see them coming out with some things. >> as you know, janet napolitano is coming out today. and as you look around, we have the confirmation that the search and recovery efforts they feel confident that there's no one still who might be trapped and they don't have anyone missing. >> right. >> what's now? what's next? what's your priority for your community? >> just to make sure we're taken care of. i let congressman cole and

lieutenant governor and the governor take care of, you know, the federal stuff, the federal end of it. and they kind of keep me in the loop on that. but i just want to make sure that everybody in my community is taken care of. if they need something that they can call me. i'm just that kind of guy. like i've said before, my family moved here in the 1940s, so these are, you know, friends and acquaintances we've known for a long time. i know a lot of them. >> there is going to be a debate over federal funding and how much money. not just should come to oklahoma but other areas. it's been part of the ongoing sequester debate. what would you say to folks who question how much money the federal government should put in to what they might consider to be a local disaster? >> well, you know, again, i think that's congressman cole and we had a congressional delegation here yesterday, we toured the area. >> both of the senators, u.s.

senators. >> yeah, we had the senators, all the congressmen, they were all here the governor. that was impressive they came. something for them to hash out on their end. i know as of yesterday, i know of $10 million in private money. other things they're fixing to happen. as oklahomans, we're resilient, we stand together, we'll take the federal money, the house pazed a deal yesterday for $45 million here in the state legislature. i'm sure the governor, i'm kind of out of the loop. i haven't been back up since all of this happened. but whatever doesn't come about, we'll stick together and we'll make it work. that's the kind of people we are. >> i've spent most of my time in this neighborhood and i haven't found a person yet who has said to me they're not going to rebuild. is that the attitude you're hearing throughout the community? >> yeah, we've been through this a few times through the years. and moore always comes back. there's always that, oh, people will move out. but it's a good community.

i didn't see anybody move. i think people will build back. we always have. >> i've seen you quite a bit over the past 2 1/2 days or so, how are you holding up? >> good. i guess i've got my game on. i don't know. >> do you think it maybe hasn't fully hit you yet? >> i've been through this kind of on the other end of, you know, debris removal, rebuilding, you know, my family is in the construction business. and so i've seen a lot of different aspects of this. i've experienced a few other tornadoes and so, you know, i do have to say that with some, you know, plaza towers i was there when they were fixing -- pulling some of the children out and i had to choke it back and i had to tell somebody later, you know, i'll go home and cry tonight. i can't do it today. the people need me. so my emotions will have to wait a little bit. one thing i'd like to share if

i've got time. >> sure. >> feel free, any of my constituents, anybody, my cell phone number is 405-593-5312, call me on that or you can call my assistant at the capitol and her number is 405-597-7436. any contributions, anybody that needs anything, water, food, a place to stay, we want to help you. that's my job. that's what i'm here for. >> and they've said they have so many people who have responded. they're asking people not to come, which is a testament to the good will of the people throughout this area and throughout the country. mark mcbride, thank you so much. and good luck moving forward. >> you bet. thank you, chris. >> thank you so much. i want to bring in frank keating who was governor of oklahoma in 1999 when this city was devastated by another powerful tornado that killed 46 people and damaged or destroyed more than 8,000 homes. governor, good morning to you. >> good morning, chris, and

thank you very much for being in oklahoma. this means a lot to us. two of my three children live in the greater oklahoma city area. my son chip is there with the salvation army volunteering throughout the week. you may bump into him and he'll give you a free cup of coffee. >> it's been nice because we've taken advantage of some of those offers over the last couple of days. the outpouring has been remarkable. how does monday's tragedy compare with what you dealt with in '99? and are there lessons from that that could be used here moving forward? >> well, remember, chris, oklahoma city greater oklahoma city has been around for about 138 years. the two more serious destructive tornadoes in the history of the city, really, i've never seen a tornado. here i'm an oklahoman and served as governor for eight years.

those two tornadoes were the may 3rd, 1999 tornado that tore through moore and ef-5, and the same velocity tornado this time on may 20th. deja vu is a terrible word in the french language, i should say, and our dictionary. but it has happened and they've gone through this before. we've gone through this before. i think what has to be done, obviously, is go through the lessons learned map. first off to make sure that people don't drop their property and casualty insurance when they pay off their home mortgage. a lot of people think well, the bank makes me do that i don't need it anymore. well, things like this prove you do. also to make sure you take another look about the construction, quality, and the sustainability in high wind environments of schools or wherever the sheltering place site is. and obviously to coordinate the giving, to try to realize that

this is many people in the moore area are fragile financially. it's a modest income environment. so i'm doing -- as a matter of fact what a lot of oklahomans are doing right now, just the state representative mentioned it, i'm dialing for dollars, trying to help people find the salvation army, which is hugely important in all of this, the red cross and other charities because we need help. as you can see, there are a lot of people that have nothing including the clothes on their back. >> well, let me ask you about the federal help. i've seen the estimates of about $1 billion in damage here and clearly federal help is going to be needed. there has already conversations about the two u.s. senators who have in the past voted against federal disaster aid for other areas saying they want those expenditures offset by other spending cuts. what would you say to tom coburn? >> well, i think that is in

theory a sound proposition. if you're going to have to spend money on something else, you spend less money on something other than something else. but the reality is that federalism debate, the interstate commerce debate belongs in another forum in another place because if we help each other state by state, whether it's a natural or manmade disaster, then we ought to follow that consistent pattern. if on the other hand, later in a more deliberative moment we decide that, no, the state will pay half or a third and the federal government will pay 2/3 or more modest amount, fine, let's have that debate. private insurance will step up, the state will step up, the rainy day fund, taking one fund to put in this need will be done. the federal government i would expect, fema does a great job during the oklahoma city bombing when i was governor, during the may 3rd tornado in '99 in moore when i was governor. fema was all over it.

so all of those are federal and state assets, they are american family assets working together. obviously if you can spread out the payment if a particular state asks for far more, they want to finish other building products and not address the immediate needs of the people, that's another debate. i think right now look around you. those are 20,000 people effectively homeless and to the extent we can help them, we need to as a human family. >> governor frank keating, thank you so much. >> thanks, chris, and thanks again for being here. >> well, it has been a pleasure, the people of moore have been so kind and welcoming. when we come back, we will have more news on the other side. [ female announcer ] doctors trust calcium plus vitamin d

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back in new york city, msnbc headquarters. learning that a deadly shooting overnight in orlando connected to one of the boston marathon bombing suspects. pete williams has been watching that for us. pete, what's the latest on that? >> law enforcement officials say the man shot in orlando, florida, by an fbi agent was not suspected of playing any role in the boston marathon bombings. instead, they say the victim whom they've identified as 27-year-old todashev was being questioned as part of the effort to find anyone with contact with tamerlan tsarnaev, the older bombing suspect. they said he spent some time in the boston area, he was a mixed martial arts fighter. tsarnaev, you may recall, was a boxer. they say he confessed to the agent in florida that he played a role in a triple murder in 2011 in which three men were murdered in an apartment in massachusetts.

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we're getting some breaking news into msnbc, we are just learning that the oklahoma insurance department saying that preliminary tornado damage, their estimations now saying it could top $2 billion. now, when you look at previous disasters, there have been records set from $1 billion to $3 billion, $2 billion certainly within that range. again, the oklahoma insurance department saying that preliminary tornado damage estimations are some $2 billion are and more. this is 10,000 people have been

affected, over 230 individuals that we know at the moment are injured. and we have 24 confirmed dead. this as they move to a different stage on the ground there in moore, oklahoma, today, wednesday, this happening two days ago at around 3:00 in the afternoon. that's going to wrap up this hour of "jansing & company," for chris jansing reporting in moore, oklahoma, i'm richard lui, thomas roberts is up next. stick around. ♪ oh, what a lucky man ♪ he was ♪ ♪ oh, what a lucky ma-- [ tires screech ] [ dog barking ] [ male announcer ] the passat. a 2013 iihs top safety pick. designed with other drivers in mind. ♪

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here in moore on day two, a dawning of a new normal for many people here in this city. we've moved locations, closer now to the intersection of southwest 4th and telephone road. you'll recall that's across the way from the 7-eleven where four people perished in early reports from this storm. there are stories of hope, stories of survival coming out of this. i've had an opportunity on the ground here to speak to so many people, so many wonderful people who have been kind enough to share their stories. stories of what they've seen, but stories of their appropriate shell shock about just how much they've had to bear witness to, but the fact that they were able to walk away, many of them with their families intact. >> i just dove under the sink and felt something fall on my back, maybe the stuff fell on my leg, pinning my feet and i felt the sink fall and hit my head and shoulder. >>