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firing at this time of the morning. >> shutout to christy who is sleeping in anchorage, alaska. ♪ you just called out my name ♪ ♪ and you know wherever i am i'll come running. see you again ♪ >> a night at the white house. dedicated to music legend carole king. president obama honored king a friend of the show here with the gershwin prize. she is the first woman to receive the gershwin prize an honor held by paul mccartney, stevie wonder and paul simon.

amid all this, the president took moments to address the tragedy in oklahoma. >> of course, as we gather tonight to present this award, our thoughts and prayers remain with the wonderful people of oklahoma. they have suffered mightily this week. and while the road ahead will be long, their country will be with them every single step of the way. eventually, life will go on and new memories will be made and new laughter will come, new songs will be sung. >> nice event. great for carole. good morning, joe. >> fantastic. good morning. yeah, fantastic for carole and, boy, she certainly does deserve it. one of the great song writers of our time. any time you have an event in the white house, the president is obliged be a republican or democrat to talk about what is going on in oklahoma and the suffering there.

this was scheduled, though, and they went ahead with it and congratulations to carole. mika, an awful lot to talk about. of course, the cleanup in oklahoma still continues. we have got -- boy, explosive irs hearings on the hill continuing to go on and on. of course, some breaking news yesterday afternoon about drone strikes that, obviously, is going to change a few minds, i think, at least on capitol hill about just how expansive that policy has been. >> with us on the set to talk about all this, we have national affairs editor for "new york" magazine john heilemann and msnbc political analyst and visiting professor at nyu, former democratic congressman harold ford jr. >> good morning. >> editorial director for the national journal group ron fournier and in washington msnbc senior investigative correspondent lisa myers. president obama is expected to lay out a broad vision for

american foreign policy in the speech later today, including a shift in the way the u.s. uses unmanned drone strikes. according to "the new york times" president obama signed new classified guidelines limiting strikes in pakistan, yemen and somalia. the move follows revelations that the u.s. has killed four americans outside the battlefield including a radical muslim cleric anwar al awlaki. hundreds of low level afghanistan and pakistani militants were killed and none who had apparent al qaeda affiliation. >> why did we get the information from the justice department yesterday, ron? and is this yet another

revelation the obama administration would prefer not to have come out? >> i think so. let's step back and set aside the ovebvious questions. is it right for the president to kill american citizens and is it possible the citizens were killed by accident? give the president credit for stepping back like he said he was in the state of the union address and deciding that he needed to change the policy. and limit drone strikes to when it's the last case scenario and to justify publicly to the american public why he is doing this. i would love -- and i look barred to the day -- when the president does the same thing with the leaks investigation when he stands up and explains to the people why it's okay to call journalism a conspiracy and why it's okay to snoop on the associated press and how he is weighing our liberty verse our security on those cases. >> we are going to get --

>> explosive charges coming out yesterday there as well. john heilemann, let's talk about the president and the shift in policy and, of course, these revelations. we find out now that four americans have been killed and what does that mean for the president politically? not just with republicans but especially with his own democratic party on capitol hill? >> i think, joe, this has been an issue that has been getting increasingly contentious and taking a long time for the issue to come to a head. we talked about it many times on this show. there are obviously huge concerns for a lot of people about this program on both the left and the right. and this is one of these issues where because it goes to core issues around weighing, as ron said, the balance between security, liberty, issues of transparency, issues of a new kind of war fare that is going to be the way in which a lot of

war far, not just by the united states, but a lot of countries around the world because of this technology is getting waged going forwards. these are big issues and debate them the next 20 to 30 years. we are just starting now and, obviously, turn up the temperature to a very high burn on that. >> the president frames this later today. the investigation into the targeting of conservative groups. by the irs, it ran into an obstacle on capitol hill yesterday when lois lerner the woman at the center of the scandal declined to testify. >> i have not done anything wrong. i have not broken any laws. i have not violated any irs rules and regulations and i have not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee. while i would very much like to answer the committee's questions today, i've been advised by my counsel to assert my constitutional right not to testify or answer questions related to the subject matter of

this hearing. >> there were just a few people who weren't too happy to hear that on capitol hill yesterday. lerner's statement and her refusal to provide details enraged several house committee members. she quickly dismissed hearses fr -- herself from the hearing. >> she just testified. she just waived her fifth amendment right to privilege. you don't get to tell your side of the story and not be subbed to cross-examination. that's not the way it works. she waived her right to the fifth amendment privilege by issuing an opening statement. she ought to stand here and answer our questions. >> chairman of the house oversight committee daryl issa is exploring his options to bring lerner back to compel and testify. any possibility that being done after pleading the fifth, joe? >> it can be done and she can imp come back and plead the fifth again. lisa myers, will we see issa go after her again and bring her in

and have her plead the fifth again and having members say she waived her right? >> chairman issa says he is consulting with range of people on that. the lawyers i spoke with last night who have experience in this area say they believe that that opening statement, while not ideal, but she did not waive her constitutional rights. and, you know, the republicans have also a balancing act here. i mean, if you just call her in back in for no reason other than to make her take the fifth again and again and again and again and again, republicans could be accused again of overreaching. i think what lois lerner did yesterday is make herself the face of this scandal. "the washington post" gave her four pinocchios which is about their worst rating in terms of credibility. we also learned yesterday that the irs had far more information about this targeting a year ago than they have let on. in addition, we learned two

things. we learned that a manager from washington holly pass was in the -- many of the interviews that the i.g. did with folks in cincinnati. so she knew the testimony about the targeting before it came out in the i.g. report. secondly, the irs did its own internal investigation about a year ago and found that there was, indeed targeting. so for this last year when they have told congress absolutely nothing, they had much more information than they claimed to have had. >> yeah. all right. look at the "the washington post" today, this is where white house counsel kathy rumler comes in. she was given a thumbnail sketch of the findings that the irs improperly targeted tea party and other skeveni ideservive gr shared with white house aids and they agreed, according to "the washington post" it would be best not to share it with president obama so this as well chain of events that lead people to question what is going on and

look at what rumler did and her job is to protect the president but, ultimately, did she? >> she will have to answer that question. she is one of the best and most tenacious litigators in the country and it's curious to me why that may have happened if those string of events are correct and i have no reason to believe they are not. we will have to wait and see. i think lisa touched on it well. unfortunately, lois lerner has become the face of this and this does not bode well with the white house with these new facts. three questions remain. who directed them to do this at the irs. still not clear. when they learned this was happening and what did they do to stop it and what measures did they put in place to assure this kind of targeting didn't happen again? three, are there other types of targeting happening at the irs? i'm sure taxpayers are watching and wondering things had been done against them or had been against them the few few years and opening up important questions for the irs. >> important questions. how the white house shows they are looking into this seriously

is important as well. >> it really is. it doesn't help a lot, mika, the story keeps changing. from the story that the white house gives jay carney to give to the press corps. it raises so many questions and we are finding out not only did the president's chief counsel inside the white house know about this, the president's chief of staff new about this. that is about as close. that is as close as you get to the president of the united states himself and got a question for ron. ron fournier, is it plausible that you would have the president's legal counsel whose job it is to protect him on issues like this, and the president's chief of staff, is it plausible they would both know about this investigation and say, you know what? we are not going to tell the president of the united states there is a scandal brewing over at the irs. >> this is in the past few weeks that they knew. >> the past couple of weeks she didn't tell the president that i take them at their word.

the adviser of the president said that the press is treating this like they are acting like firg skating judges and i'm really not as interested in what the president knew two weeks ago. i'm more interested in whether or not the president or anybody working on his behalf in the white house or at the campaign had directed the targeting during the campaign. that was months ago. we shouldn't assume the answer is yes but we sure as hell shouldn't assume the answer is no. >> but that -- that is -- at the end of the day, though, ron. the end of the day, ron, the question did -- i want to pass this around the table. isn't the question whose idea was this? where did the idea come from? show us that e-mail. show us the day the policy was proposed and who proposed it. isn't that the important key in who signed off on it? >> it's definitely important and goes that their credibility. i think the most important thing who was it behind -- >> targeting of conservatives and was it anybody in the white house or the campaign?

and it's possible the answer is yes, we need to find out. >> i think that is right. on the question of what has happened once the scandal broke, the notion of preserving plausible deniability, that is something we have seen in the white houses for a long time. >> yeah. >> senior aids who decide this is something we should insulate the president from for political reasons and happens all the time in white houses. republican and democrat. the core issue here about the integrity of the irs is an issue. it's not about what happened since the scandal broke. the issue is how -- what has gone on at that agency over time and has there been, as ron said, has there been political pressure, political finagling gone on over the course of this time? that is the core of the issue that goes to what the basic issue is here around the integrity of this very american institutional. >> the second point to your question is the lack of credibility at the white house definitely. >> wait. you're talking about the lack of credibility on the white house, mika. we keep getting news every day that certainly we would have

people in middle american who weren't connected to a party closely and not ideological and say, wait a second. doesn't make sense. heard news yesterday the justice department is pushing back on that james rosen, fox news reporter, who was investigated for espionage against the united states and chuck todd said, it was an example of the white house criminalizing reporting. he actually -- it was reported that his parents' phones were also -- their records were seized as well, tapped. the feds came back and said they didn't do that, but now rosen is saying they did. a real back and forth in this battle but this goes to the heart of the administration. >> you can't make journalism a conspiracy. that is chilling and it's already having, as you know, joes, it's already having an affect on our ability to be able to report on national security issues. it was already tough enough in

press, gotten criticism for laying down on iraq and not exposing the lies and desepgsces on iraq. generally the opposite is true. it's not that the press corps is for war. the problem was it's awfully hard to do this kind of reporting. it's a tight-knit community. the irony here president obama, by raising jihad against the press has made it more likely we will have what he calls dumb wars. >> lisa myers, at this point, the allegations that the home of rosen's parents were being tracked is being denied. but what we do know about the a.p. phone records and other reporters, where does this rate? we were talking to some people last night about which is the most troubling of these, quote, scandals. i would say the irs one is really politically tough and terrible for this white house, but this a.p. story is the one

that is more chilling down the road. >> it's chilling also now -- i agree with ron. i've already seen, in dealing with people, they are much more cautious about even some of the most basic discussions. they don't want to have a trail of contact. so it is having an effect. i think the irs is a bigger scandal. the irs goes to the heart of our government. >> yeah. >> and we not only don't know how this started. we know that mid level managers knew about it for a long time. and we know that for a year the irs essentially knowingly lied to congress and no one came forward. there was no whistle-blower unlike the state department on ben ghazi, excuse me, when three people risk their careers because they thought the truth was not coming out. here in the irs, there is nothing but silence. >> we will be revisiting these

all throughout the morning. we want to get to the latest in oklahoma. the damage estimate from the storm tops $2 billion with 13,000 homes damaged or destroyed. but it's the front page of "the oklahoman" says it all listing the names of 24 people killed along with their photographs. the youngest victim, a 4-month-old. and 9-year-old jenae hornsby was one of the seven students who died at plaza tours elementary. >> i was just hoping maybe, you know, she might have just been unconscious or, you know, but i was hoping that she was alive. >> on wednesday, the school was opened to cameras for the first time and what wasn't destroyed was simply no longer there. >> this goes into their cafeteria. this is their lunch room. the storm came from this way.

so the actual tornado came through this way which those are all brick houses back there. this is the gym area. more classrooms. portables out there that are just gone. >> joining us now the weather channel's mike bettis who is live from moore, oklahoma. >> good morning to you. >> reporter: we know today is the last day of school in moore and each of the schools will have remembrance ceremonies. and the victims will be laid to rest. you hear more miracle stories how people made it through this tore risk tragic tornado. one of the stories is what happened at the tinker credit union. 22 people inside that bank 14 employees and 8 customers, they rush inside the bank vault as the tornado sweeps over the top of the bank. they emerge coming out to a bank that no longer exists but it's that bank, hard and steel,

reinforced with rebar and cased in concrete and this thing could take a missile blast and survive and it survived that tornado. not a single scratch on a single one of those 22 people that were inside that bank. i mean, when you consider that the bank is completely gone. it is just great reaction, great thinking by the employees to get everyone in there. we have seen this happen before. we saw the same thing happened in joplin, missouri, where in some snainstances the bank vaul was only left. the bank vault was there and nothing else left in several blocks. happened this happen in katrina when the bank was gone and the only thing left was the vault. i got to tell you we are hearing these stories each and every day and people riding out the storms in bank vault or a bathtub and their lives are changed and they are alive and i think they are thankful they came out with their life and can replace everything else. >> rebuilding with shelters all around is the big issue. president obama will be on the scene there in moore, oklahoma, on sunday. mike bettis, thank you very

much. let's turn now to msnbc meteorologist bill karins with more. >> sometimes tornadoes, they are just not fair. they do strange things that we can't explain. the one image that i'm taking out of this is this ten-ton tank we now found out was actually lifted up and deposited a half mile away. ten tons! so that is how strong the winds were and how strong this tornado was. now let me show you this image from the bowling alley in moore, oklahoma. the building complete destroyed and all but the seven pins were still standing at the end of that bowling alley. so many pictures and images out that make you shake your head. last night we had some storms rolling through. still a couple of more around moore, oklahoma, but none are severe but a little bit of light rain out there this morning. later on today, unfortunately, we do have a chance of some isolated tornadoes but not in the moore area. moore west portions of oklahoma and also north texas, al ril low, wichita falls, abilene and

lubbock, we will have to watch you later today. also in the northeast, we have had a lot of nasty storms as of late. once again, this afternoon, not tornadoes but large hail and damaging winds possible from washington, d.c. outside of philadelphia and right up through pennsylvania, into upstate new york. not a tornado outbreak today but just isolated. >> all right, bill karins, thanks very much. see you soon. still ahead, senator tom coburn of oklahoma joins us. also rnc chairman reince priebus. ted cruz shows he is not afraid to stand up to the establishment in a really big way. that is ahead in the political playbook. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. ♪ to thank our military familie. walmart and operation homefront are thanking them by offering a little help when they need it the most. operation homefront provides assistance to our servicemen and women when they have unforeseen difficulties. [ mcmahon ] i was first introduced to operation homefront when we found out we were having a baby. even when i'm gone, she has a helping hand.

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the morning papers at 25 past the hour. from our parade of papers the "orlando sentinel." a chechen man linked to the boston bombers was shot and killed after a confrontation with the fbi. law enforcement say the

27-year-old who came to the u.s. in 2006 was preparing to implicate himself in the two bombing suspects in the killing of three men after a drug rip-off went bad and that is when todashev attacked the officer with a knife. from "the washington post." officials in washington, d.c. are saying it may take until friday to repair a large sinkhole jamming traffic in the area where traffic is already horrible. locate at 14th and f streets near the white house. it opened up on friday and reached 15 feet below the road. the sewer company is working to determine the cause of the sinkhole but the sewer line was built in 1977. could be part of the problem there. "the miami herald." a man rested in a murder plot

for dialing 911 and talking about the crime wheel police listened. on the recordings scott simon can allegedly heard of shooting a man to death after getting into an altercation earlier in the day at a waffle house restaurant. >> how many times have you ever dialed 911, mika? >> i've been known to butt dial. >> 911? geez. >> they should add the term on just for stupidity there. >> talk about bad luck. >> i think, yeah. >> he had called 911 before. >> exactly. >> how many -- >> you're killing people. >> you're killing people and you have 9:00 preprogramm11 prereco phone? >> you sit on it a lot, it goes to 911. >> a story here. someone call the bronx p.d. >> no, no! here with us is mike allen with the morning playbook. ted cruz expressing his lack of

faith in his colleagues on the senate floor. he did it once again. tell us what happened. >> it is, mika. first out last night, "the new york times" best seller list for june 2nd, two weeks for now, "obsessed" by mika brzezinski. >> i didn't know that. ted cruz talking about budget negotiations and not raising the debt ceiling and then what happened? take a look. >> the senior senator from arizona urged this body to trust the republicans. let me be clear. i don't trust the republicans. and i don't trust the democrats. and i think a whole lot of americans likewise don't trust the republicans and the democrats because it is leadership in both parties that has gotten us in this mess. >> mike, mike. what? i just -- i don't know. maybe joe ought to chime in.

joe? mr. cruz, is this just sort of -- >> it's going to be a hell of a lot of fun from ted cruz is standing in line in the cloak room to get hot dogs. >> yeah. >> how do you -- >> what do you do with that? >> this is a guy that, obviously, has decided he is going to be a lone wolf and you can be a lone wolf. no. on the house side. you go in the cloak room, eat hot dogs or sandwiches or whatever. any way. mike allen, this guy is obviously got no interest in working with any of his colleagues. he's certainly the people of texas are going to find out in a very rude way that pissing off 97 senators basically saying you're the -- this guy is more self-righteous in politics than jim and tammy faye bakker were in religion. somebody apparently hasn't told ted cruz he wasn't the first elected to the united states senate. i can't believe this will do

anything but devastate his effectiveness and hurt the great people in texas in the long run. >> senator cruz does not see it that way. we had debated, joe, whether or not once he got to washington, whether he would go native, whether he would learn to go along, whether he would learn to work with leadership. it's clearly seen he is not. reports off the weekly luncheon with republicans he goes against the leadership there and has helped to build senator cruz's brands with national republicans. next week is the featured speaker of the republican party of new york! can you imagine? new york republicans want ted cruz to come and be their speaker! and it's because he is a great draw. people are fascinated by him. they had a silver elephant dipper. at the same time he is fighting washington he is very popular around the country. it's a new motto.

>> the thing is, john heilemann, it's one thing to go native. you don't have to go native. i certainly didn't and certainly anybody who followed me in washington would say i was one of the continued of seven or eight agitators. but you just don't go out of your way to insult everybody in your party and say that basically you're the only one that is conservative and to be that self-righteous. >> joe, one of the things i like about you is you still haven't gone native even to this day. look. you come into the united states senate and you look at it as an institutional if you're a freshman and look at it one or two ways. either this is a place you might want to make a career whether that is to one term, two terms, three terms, four terms but you're thinking about your long-term future within the institution and crafting legislation and getting things done or look at the senate as a branding vehicle. this is an institution i'm going to use for a brief time to elevate my stature on the national stage within the

ideological media is what you're going to do and turn yourself into a national figure. you don't care about relationships in the senate because you're not trying to get things done there but things done for yourself. i think ted cruz is not thinking about a second term. he is thinking about four years from now. maybe he might run for re-election once but not looking for a long-term future in the senate. he thinks putting himself in a place as he said yesterday apart from both parties and aligning himself with a populace grassroots is where his national future is and he doesn't care when he ignores his colleagues or pisss them off as you said. >> the loser is the people. >> that's fine. >> i'm not approving of it. just trying to analyze it. >> no, i understand. i'm just saying it is exactly what barack obama did but barack obama didn't offend everybody and basically say he was better than everybody at least when he

was in the united states senate. he thought it and they found that out after he left, but he didn't say i'm better than you to their face or go on the floor. but i'm always said, just to be very clear, i've always told people that followed me in congress, they said give me the advice and ask -- i said, listen. it's fairly clear when you go in, there are two doors and only two doors. there's the insider door and there is the outsider door. and when you go in, you can decide to be part of the establishment, you can decide to be part of the leadership, you can decide to be the ones that go to the all of the fund-raisers that raise all of the money and do the dirty work for the leaders. if you go in there, you got to go in there 100% or you're an outsider and ted cruz has done. you're an outsider. dick army, when i was in congress, he didn't like me. john boehner didn't like me. newt gingrich. the leadership didn't like me because i decided i would be an

outsider and vote the way i wanted to vote and go after them hard when they spent too much money but, at the same time, i was quietly making relationships with basically everybody else in the house. so people in my district didn't get punished for my conservative activism. that is not happening here and i think at the end of the day the big loser are going to be the great people in the state of texas because ted cruz has gone to texas as a political branding device instead of being a leader to help people in that huge important great state. >> politico's mike allen, thank you so much. coming up, a gruesome attacks on the streets of london and the prime minister says it might be terrorism. also hid jim miklaszewski joins us with david sanger and mark

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investigators still looking into a deadly attack on a busy street in london yesterday in broad daylight. a british soldier was the target and it's now being investigated as a terrorist attack. just a warning. the images are graphic.

nbc's michelle kosinski reports. >> move back! move back! >> reporter: in the middle of a day in a busy working class neighborhood next to an army barracks and near an elementary school a scene of such raw violence few cobble it. >> look at the guy. dead now. >> reporter: people here say a young man who nbc news has confirmed was an active british soldier wearing a charity help for heroes t-shirt was walking along the sidewalk when two men in a car drove into him and got out and started stabbing him with multiple large knives. >> they were hacking at the poor guy. chopping him and cutting him. >> reporter: some say the victim was decapitated in the attack and they approached people in the horrified crowd. one made a long political statement weapons still in his blood-covered hands. >> we swear by the -- we never stop fighting you until you leave us alone! >> reporter: when police arrived, witnesses say the men charged at officers who opened fire. both were hit.

now in hospitals. >> absolutely awful. joining us now from london, nbc news correspondent anna bell roberts. the talk of this being a terrorist attack. give us the latest in terms of the investigate and any more details around what happened? >> reporter: good morning, mika. david cameron, the british prime minister, chaired a meeting of the emergency national security committee this morning and he is speaking about now giving his reaction and the government's position on this. the two suspects spent the night under armed guard in hospital. meanwhile, here at the scene forensic investigations going on and a lot of police activity. the main focus of this investigation is going to be whether or not these two men were acting alone or were they part of a bigger organization. were they lone wolves or being receiving directions from a bigger group. of course, that is key. but really, mika, here there is such a great sense of shock that

such a brazen and harrowing attack could happen in broad daylight at a busy road junction behind me and the two perpetrators stood around waiting 20 minutes or so for the armed police talking to the onlookers and getting their photo taken. this is a mixed community, mika. there is great concern that here and in other communities up and down the country, there could be retaliatory attacks and this could trigger some kind of spiral of violence. so a great concern here in london today. >> i take it, given the fact that there is video of these people, the suspects talking, that is there anything known about who they are and their connections to terrorist organizations in any way? >> reporter: no, nothing as of yet. there is some supposition on twitter and other social media. some people have put names forward but nothing is being confirmed by the police. all that we know so far is that

a house in lincoln shire in northern england has been raided by police this morning. they are investigating there and the police have confirmed that that action is linked to the attack here yesterday. but as of yet, very little information except for the fact as already mentioned that the victim was a serving soldier based in the barracks very near to where he lost his life. very little has so far been confirmed and the police have issued a statement asking people not to speculate until more information has been relieved, mika. >> fair enough. anabel roberts, thank you so much. up next the must read opinion pages. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. ♪ [ jennifer garner ] why can't powerful sunscreen feel great?

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a live shot of the white house at 45 past of the hour. it is time now for the must read opinion pages. we have a couple of. i'm going to start with ron fournier in the "national journal." you say this. in politics as in life when you constantly change your story even on small matters you so doubt about your credibility and competence. in different ways each of the so-called obama scandals revolve around the issue of trust. the president's greatest asset is his credibility. if this pattern of spinning and shifting stories continues, it could become a liability. the central question of the irs scandal is whether obama advisers at the white house are within the re-election campaign orchestrated or new about targeting of conservative groups. they say the answer is no. i have no reason to think they are lying. i also have no confidence that they know.

i think, you know -- two issues with that scandal, ron. one is the white house officials who did know and wanted to preserve that so-called plausible deniability over the past few weeks which i think allowed them to get played and allowed the story to come out in a different way and for the president to hear it on the news, i don't think his team helped him and i still don't think they are lying if that makes any sense. >> no. he has been very poorly served. let's take the most benign interpretation of all of these scandals the irs was merely incompetence and rosen thing was ov overzealousness. give them the benefit of the doubt of that? they have destroyed their credibility in the way they handles these issues. it's the core of any presidency as i wrote there. >> john heilemann? >> one of the questions that always occurs that i think about it is that we always see second-term administrations become scandal plagued. >> yeah. >> what do you think, having

covered washington for a long time, what is that? is it just kind of inevitable thing over the course of time stuff creeps out or the best people on the team leave? why do we always end up here? >> i think it's partly that and stuff creedshe. . there is an arrogance. pretty cool to win re-election and told twice you're a great american. >> next one from "the wall street journal". while the white house this is what my concern is that these scandaling or situations at the white house is dealing with have opened them up to such criticism and totally taken the focus what we need to be doing as a country. while the white house continues

to pedestrian peddle the story of a driverless train wreck. look ma, no hands. mr. obama has since given the yefgs that he sits atop a federal government which he does not and could not possibly control. lisa, playing into exactly what his critics have been fighting for in many levels pertaining to big government and health care and other issues. >> absolutely, mika. one of the casualties of the white house trying to keep the president's distance from these various issues is he looks like he is not in charge and that no one is in charge. you listen to people from the agencies. they are not in charge either. they don't know what is happening beneath them. at the same time, we're -- the federal government is embarking on this massive new health care program and important part of it will be administered by the irs and i think it gives pause to anyone, liberal or conservative,

who cares about what the government works and works efficiently. >> how do they prove that then? how do they prove it still functions and it works efficiently and -- >> they have to fix these things. lisa said something a few minutes ago about which scandal was the worse in many ways. i agree with the irs because it's something that touches every american. everyone understands it at some level. comes back to the question that ron raises at the end of the day i think having these problems fixed. we have heard every official from the irs say they did nothing wrong but we all know something wrong was done and no one is taking responsibility for it. i think the white house and the president certainly has this answer that he didn't know but it begs the question of the "the wall street journal" editorial. who then do you hold accountable if you're a taxpayer, a voter, if you're a donor or a pedestrian, if you're a hard working american who is held accountable for what is happening here? no one. >> it will never happen again. >> ending this block on a different note. this is the "the washington

post." oklahoma needs help, not ideology, after the tornado. representative tom coburn who lives in the neighborhood was talking about a call he received from president obama. i realized how strange it is these days for politicians to speak in human terms about someone in the other political party. especially if that someone is named barack obama. imagine a solid conservative republican declaring that obama did something kind, thoughtful, and gracious. this takes courage in the gop these days. new jersey governor chris christie learned as much last fall. he was ostracized by large part of the right and pronounced unwelcome at march's conservative political action conference because he praised obama's response to hurricane sandy. there is still that terrible disconnect in times of disaster, we need unity and this president, i think, made it very clear he meant well after sandy and does after oklahoma.

>> chris christie is viewed as a leader. >> absolutely. >> he is running ahead in a fully democratic state in new jersey for re-election. he had to do what is best for his state and his residents and if you have to question that, you have to question their role in american politics and efforts to bring out the right efforts in government. >> tom coburn was one of the few oklahoma republicans to vote for -- >> both christie and peter king came out to urge congress to support relief right away for oklahoma which they should. >> president obama has done a remarkable job in handling these crises. >> we will be talking to senator tom coburn at 8:15 how the debate of getting relief and money aside for disasters is being debated in washington. on tomorrow's show from hit comedy "arrested development." i'm so excited! i can't stand it!

emmy nominee jeffrey tambor will be on the set. we are so excited about that. all stations come over to mission a for a final go.

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this is my neighborhood growing up. a middle class kid in brooklyn. i thought we had it all. playing stick ball late into the night. look. i made some big mistakes. but i've also learned some tough lessons. and i hope i get a second chance to work for you. thank you for watching. >> don't. i want to -- just be quiet! i don't want to hear from you! front page of "the new york times." >> like in the late '70s in brooklyn? i don't really think so! stick ball! >> ron fournier, thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. >> stick ball? >> coming up next. >> neighborhood in '78, '79, '80. >> he is having a hard time getting a team together but if someone can revive that political career, and i think someone can, that person will be a magician.

rick stengel reveals striking photos of the storm damage in moore, oklahoma. it's part of a special issue of "time owe "time" magazine and andy serwer will join the conversation. we will be back more with much more "morning joe." [ male announcer ] erica had a rough day. there was this and this. she got a parking ticket... ♪ and she forgot to pay her credit card bill on time. good thing she's got the citi simplicity card. it doesn't charge late fees or a penalty rate. ever.

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i have not broken any laws. >> who said anything about breaking any laws? no one is accusing you. we want to know what happened. the white house sent the irs a letter demanding its paper work by may 21st and today is may more than that. so right now, they are probably going through those papers and then -- i'm sorry, what is that? really, they didn't send it in? the irs didn't send it in? the irs missed their filing deadline. is that what we are hearing? >> very good point. top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." john heilemann is still with us. and joining us is "time" managing editor rick stengel. incredible photos in that issue. the managing editor of "fortune"

magazine is andy serwer. we will get to him in a moment. joe, we need to get to the top headlines of the day. which is the more damaging scandal for the president? yesterday today we set the scene about revelations with drone strikes. >> no doubt about it. you have a lot of people asking that question. what is going to be tough for the white house. well, i don't think it's that simple. the answers aren't that simple. >> no. >> obviously, for voters, it's going to be very tough to deal with this irs scandal for some time because the irs does touch so many people out there so they can relate to this sort of abuse. politically that is problematic. >> that's my worry, yeah. >> i think the bigger long-term problem for the working white house has to be the breach of trust with a mainstream press corps that has largely been sympathetic to president obama

and his administration and his policies. they are now seen as being heavy handed. how many reporters have we heard the past several days from nbc, great reporters who have been doing it for a long time like lisa myers and we heard chuck todd yesterday talking about the -- making journalism criminal affair. they are actually starting to see their sources dry up, afraid that they are going to be connected to this story if they are whistle blowers because the white house has seized phone records of, you know, so many reporters. so i think in the long run that is really going to hurt the white house with the press corps and make operating over the next three years very difficult. >> let's lay this out methodically. the top story pertains to this in a way. president obama expected to lay out a broad vision for american foreign policy in a speech later today including a

shift in the way the u.s. uses unmanned drone strikes. according to "the new york times," president obama signed new classified guidelines limiting strikes in pakistan, yemen and somalia. places that are not active war zones. the move follows revelations that the u.s. has killed four americans outside the battlefield including a radical muslim cleric anwar al awlaki. he was the only one who was specifically targeted. last month, mcclatchy newspapers said the obama administration has targeted and killed low level pakistani militants many of whom had no parent al qaeda affiliation. joe, it's interesting. as we follow the drone angle over the past few years, the criticism or just reaction has been how aggressive this president is compared to the last administration in foreign policy issues. >> no doubt about it. this president has been much

more aggressive in drone war fare than the previous administrations. that's caused a lot of problems with civil libertarians and especially when americans start being killed. rick stengel, "time" magazine looked into this a month or two ago and it was your cover story. what should we make of the president's announcement later on today he is going, i think, by pressure, because of pressure, be forced to change his drone policy? >> joe, one of the things we discovered and i think we have all seen that the drone policy in some ways is the face of the united states abroad in pakistan and afghanistan and many other areas. as far as the united states brand, i think it was not something they thought was something that was great in terms of representing the u.s. obviously, there are internal guidelines and regulations about it but i think from a pr perspective, i think, the idea of scaling back so this is not the face of the u.s. abroad is

something that people probably think is a good idea. >> okay. we are going to be following the president's words on this later today. let's turn to the irs. the investigation into the targeting of conservative groups by the irs ran into an obstacle on capitol hill when lois lerner the woman at the center of the scandal, she declined to testify. >> i have not done anything wrong. i have not broken any laws. i have not violated any irs rules or regulations, and i have not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee. while i would very much like to answer the committee's questions today, i've been advised by my counsel to assert my constitutional right not to testify or answer questions related to the subject matter of this hearing. >> lerner statement and refusal to provide details enraged many

house committee members. she quickly dismissed herself from the hearing drawing criticism from congressman trey gowdy. >> she just waived her right to the privilege. you don't get to tell your side of the story and not be subjected to cross-examination. that's not the way it works. she waived her right to the fifth amendment privilege by issuing an opening statement. she ought to stand here and answer our questions. >> chairman of the house oversight committee daryl issa is exploring his options to bring lerner back to compel and testify. >> i got to tell you the agencies i worked with they are the most responsive. you could sit down and talk to them and say i think you're pushing my constituent too hard on this issue. they are very responsive but they have always been demonized for a lot of different reasons. i always reminded people that the irs agents aren't the ones that write the tax code. it's the members of congress who

write the tax code. so there are. we need to say there are a lot of great professionals that work for the internal revenue service across america who have to be just as horrified by what was going on in this cincinnati office as anyone. you just wonder how did this office get so out of control and how do they have leaders like this lady who has misled the american people from the very beginning? >> yeah. what an unsympathetic position. you know, we just saw her pleading the fifth. this is something mafia chieftans do in front of congress and not somebody from the irs. everyone wants to know the real story and want her to come clean. how bad could it be? i'm sorry. you need to tell what is going on here and to do otherwise is just ridiculous and the irs is just going to continue to be a

pinata and, obviously, it's not just right wing groups that are upset with this, but every american citizen should be upset with this. >> fwhat is frustrating, joe, everyone concedes here something went wrong, yet very little information as to where and how it began. that shouldn't be that hard to find, should it? >> no doubt about it. i will say the white house communication efforts, john heilemann, have been abhorrent the past several weeks. ben ghazi they don't get the story right and jay carney is caught misleading the american people and continues to mislead the american people and lie to the press corps about all of the revisions. i like jay and he's a really good friend of mine. i'm not talking about his morals and let other people what you

should antishouldnd shouldn't d. when you have to revise stories day in and day out, day in, day out, you start asking who is in charge of the communication shop? who is in charge at the white house and why is the president allowing this to go on? this irs story is another great example of just sheer incompetence of the white house to get their story out in a clean, effective way and these are the days that you go, where have you gone? i'm sorry. what was the great clinton white house press secretary? >> mike mccurry. >> where are you, mike? mccurry would tell them, hey, i can't tell you right now. i don't have all of the answers but i'm going to come back and tell you later. this white house seems to just be bumbling through one problem after another and not handling it very well. >> john heilemann, i would say this is the one area. there is a lot we can't claim to

know because they won't tell us. but we do know a little bit about pr and how to get a message out and it is confusing to watch this sort of just snowball, especially the irs one which is so damming. it's just bad. whether anybody did anything absolutely on purpose, which i guess we can debate and find out about in the future, you know when you hear that this has happened and you're inside the white house or anywhere near it, you know this is going to be politically terrible and it needs to be handled on a communications level. >> look. i don't really like the notion trying to priorize these issues. they are all important issues. the issue with the a.p. is important. >> just talking about communications. >> yes, yes. but i think they are connected. because in the long run, over the course of the next three afteryears, the white house has to operate with a really important constituency which is the press corps.

at this moment the combination of what seems to be the white house's efforts to undermine the press on the a.p. front and rosen front, in combination with the mishandling of chronologies and story lines on this irs issue are creating an overwhelming sense of hostility. >> what i'm talking about. >> one is a pr problem and another a problem they seemed to have kind of wage war on sources and the press but in both cases, they create a situation where it's going to be very hard for the white house to continue to operate effectively if it's at odds of the national press corps. you can't operate in that environment. >> we are talking on the same level here. let's get the latest on the tornado. the damage estimate from the tornado in oklahoma tops $2 billion with 13,000 homes damaged or destroyed. rick, they have amazing photos in your issue entitled "16 minutes."

which has an caption on the cover destruction of the tornado. what do you see? >> a beautiful picture of horses that died but the theme, the cover is this idea that national weather service station in oklahoma basically, you had from the moment they knew a tornado was going to touch down in that area, basically, you had 16 minutes to find some kind of shelter. one of the things we looked at is just how difficult it is to predict when a tornado is going to come and what it's going to do. tornadoes by their very nature are capricious and unpredictable. even though the national weather service has increased by 30 times the computer power they have in that station in oklahoma it's still not enough. still gives them only a few extra minutes rather than something like even half an hour would be radically different. we have people saying not only the national weather service but

computer scientists saying it has to increase by a hundred times the amount of computing power it has in order to get half an hour's notice. at the same time, we looked at the fact that even though these things are not predictive, the regulations in moore, oklahoma, don't require people to have basements, don't require them to have safe houses. only the schools and buildings built after 1999 have any kind of regulation that requires that kind of thing. so there are a lot of issues that actually could be fixed and repaired. >> looking inside the issue, the photographs, the other ones who have our unbelievable -- i want to show you some photographs some some of our crew. maybe future "time" magazine photographers. they came down with us through the night and this is first light after the night after the tornado struck and there are pictures really, some what are iconic of the moments that we saw down there. this tree that we reported from

with just, you know, huge pieces of siding from homes wrapped around it and, again, some of the things we saw as you pointed out, how indiscriminate. look at the toys on the shelf. a tornado can be while it rips apart homes and literally forces them to fly into the air like twisted tiny pieces of degree ev -- debris that are huge and bill karins showing that ten-ton tank. >> it was lifted out of the air and deposited someplace else like a couple of blocks away from a bowling alley where the pins are all disturbed in the lanes. >> unbelievable! >> it's just, you know, it's kind of astonishing thing. >> yeah. it does really being there gives you a sense of just how precious life is and how quickly things can change. so the issue of "time" magazine again this week is "16 minutes." that's how much time you have to save your life. amazing how many lives were

saved. >> yes. >> it is. we move to "fortune" cover. amazon not so secret war on taxes. tell us about it, andy. >> we have been learning about apple and its tax strategy this week with tim cook testifying in front of congress. amazon is another issue but also a multibillion dollar tax situation. there are estimates that 11.4 billion dollars states have not collected the past couple of decades and a large portion of that is from amazon. you probably know that if you buy things online, you don't have to pay sales tax right. item. >> in your state, in many states if that company doesn't have a physical presence in your state. amazon has gone to great lengths to try to avoid collecting sales tax. there are 45 states that have sales tax and only collects in about 17 of those states. in many cases, it does have a physical presence in terms of

large warehouses, but it set up these warehouses in separate subsidiaries. does this sound familiar? >> yes. >> apple. these separate subsidiaries and claiming therefore it's a separate subsidiary it's not part of amazon and therefore it doesn't have to collect taxes. a state official in texas presented amazon with a bill for $269 million that it said the company owed to the state of texas. the company decided -- amazon decided to pull its warehouse out of texas and trying to settle back and forth in indiana and south carolina. >> do they feel they need to pay that? >> they have now settled but they have now decided to set up warehouses and money sort of gets circulated back. >> they are moving. >> this has been an issue since the dawn of the web. the issue of collection of sales taxes has allowed people to get into businesses they couldn't have gotten in before but a question when would this be resolved? at some point the piper has to

get paid. what do we all have to start paying sales taxes? what is the regime that will govern it? >> the states have tried to organize themselves and get together and tried to work with walmart and best buy and big box stores but different agendas and unable to agree. it looks like a national law in congress that will mandate that all internet companies will have to start collecting sales tax but amazon is pushing back and other companies well like ebay are pushing back on it and it's creeping slowly but i think the next couple of years you'll see a national law that will affect that particular point. >> andy, thank you. that is fascinating. the new issue of "time", rick steng stengel, is "16 minutes." we will be looking for "fortune" cover story. jim miklaszewski reviews the president's speech today on drone policy. and david sanger and mark

mazzetti will also join us on "morning joe." we're here with sonya

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joining us from tfrom the pentagon is jim miklaszewski. national security correspondent for "the new york times" is mark mazzetti author of the book "the way of the knife cia and secret army a war at the ends of the ear earth." in new york is david sanger the author of "confront and conceal obama secret wars and surprising use of american power," which is out in paperback. good timing. jim miklaszewski, at the pentagon, we are dealing with a couple of issues today as we get ready to hear from the president on these issues and that is the use of drones being scaled back and also the killing of

americans with drones. jim? >> everybody is making a big deal out of the fact that the president is likely to announce in his speech as we understand it that a large part of the covert drawn program that is conducted for years by the cia will now be shifted over to the pentagon and it's being hailed as a move that will increase transparency in terms of what the u.s. is doing and in that drone program. but i can tell you, you know, for years the u.s. military has been conducting air strikes. they have launched missiles off of ships into yemen. and there was one scene where both that was revealed by wikileaks where general david petraeus was sitting with the president of yemen and they were joking about the fact that yemen was taking credit for these air strikes when they didn't have the assets. i don't believe for a minute in covert operations that the transparency at the pentagon is going to increase in any measurable effect. >> let me go to mark mazzetti

first and then david sanger. your book, mark, gives a thorough account of how america now pursues its enemies with killer drones and special operations troops. give us a sense of the effectiveness of this strategy as we look toward some change in policy here. >> well, the strategy has -- no question killed off the senior layer of al qaeda and al qaeda has existed on 9/11, 2001, is a shadow of its. i think a lot of the criticism of this policy has come from the loring of the bar for drone use and using the drones against people who are not associated with al qaeda. using drones in yemen and somalia and pakistan against lower level figures and the backlash this was caused and potential blow back and radicalization on the united states. i think many people in the obama

administration realizing this is a -- >> that is sort of the balance here, whether you create more hatred and friction or taking them out. >> i think what you're seeing here is the limits of what in the white house in the first term they call the white footprint strategy and that was essentially to use drones, to use cyber, and to use special forces and anything that would avoid being requiring that you send in a hundred thousand troops to a country for five or six years, and now what they are discovering over time while tactically you could justify any drone strike, when you add all of them up together, you add it up with an impression of the obama administration where the drone became the symbol of america and i think they are having a hard time living with that. what you're not hearing in the speech, i think, is much discussion of cyber, and other things they still haven't

figured out how to put the constraints on. at least on drones they have had four years to think about it. >> harold? >> according to "the new york times" the drone policy will talk about a continuing and eminent threat. based on what we know publicly and and the analysis has has been given so far, do you think they veered far outside of that policy prescription they are going to lay out today over the last three or four years when you talk about the use of drones? or will they be able to make the case -- i've been -- i've been -- i've defended their use of drones, publicly stated but i'm curious with the new policy how far outside of it do you think they have veered or been the last four years? >> on the drone side, you know, they moved back to a greater alliance on the signature strikes. they would see a motorcade that looked like it was a group of insurgents but they might not know necessarily exactly who was in it. i think that it's interesting in the speech today to see how closely the president comes to addressing that question but

sounds like they are moving away from those and that might be a significant limitation. >> jim miklaszewski? >> yes, question for mark. by the way, mark, congratulations on your book. you know, i think there are probably details in there that the president didn't even know. but a question for you. do you have any sense on how willing the cia is to give up at least a large portion of that drone program? because there have been these turf battles constantly between the pentagon and cia over covert operations. >> thanks, jim. the -- there was -- there was a little bit of fight in the cia about just how much the agency should give up. it does appear that john brennan, the new cia director, was pushing to move the bulk of drone operations out of the cia but there's still a constituency in the agency. a large constituency that wants to do this. the counterterrorism center, which has grown dramatically the last ten years, has become sort

of the beating heart of the cia. they are ones that do the drone strikes. so taking that out of the cia moving it to the pentagon has caused -- kraufed friction with brennan. just because it moves to the pentagon does not mean this great new era of transparent and at the same time, it doesn't mean the cia is out of the drone business. they not be pulling the trigger in some places any more but a large bulk of the analysis and targeting that lead the intelligence work that goes into the drone strikes will continue to be at the cia. so it's -- you know, again, the details here are important, because the cia is not at all getting out of the drone business. >> okay. before we go, i want to get to one other story. jim miklaszewski, sexual assault has been a topic of discussion in the military and now reports of another related incidents at west point. this time, a sergeant was accused of secretly filming female cadets?

can you tell us more about this story? >> you know, these stories appear to be endless but this time, there were 12 female cadets who were the victims who were allegedly covertically videotaped by a sergeant first class who actually was one of their -- one of their leaders, a staff member who is charged with looking after the well-being of these cadets. quite frankly, it sounds like something out of a will farrell movie. it's so sophomoric and something you don't expect out of the military leadership. i can tell you, though, for the first time earlier this week, i sat down with three senior military leaders in an off-the-record session and i can share this part of that. not once during that conversation, mostly about sexual assault, did one of them blame the victim, blame society, blame the system. they blamed the leadership which was refreshing to hear for the first time. so i think all this piling on,

the publicity and pressure from capitol hill to change the way the military justice system pursues and prosecutes these cases is taking hold finally. will they be eliminated? of course not. but some trust has to be reinstilled within the military to allow parents, quite frankly, to send their daughters into the service and the econoacademies. >> thank you all. david's book, on confront and conceal is out now on paper back. thanks very much. up next, rnc chairman reince priebus will join us. i'll ask him a little bit about cruise control as well.

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♪ the senior senator from arizona urged this body to trust the republicans.

i don't trust the republicans and i don't trust the democrats. i think a whole lot of americans likewise don't trust the republicans and the democrats because it is leadership in both parties that has gotten us in this mess. >> and we are glad to have you. here with us now is chairman of the republican national committee reince priebus. there is a need for cruise control in washington? >> i think ted speaks for a lot of americans who are sick and tired of everything. >> is ted helping himself in terms of being effective in washington? >> i think he is representing a voice out there of people that, quite frankly, are tired of everybody. i think that is true. i think you all can agree with that, that there are lots of people out there that get tired of politics and tired of washington, d.c. in general and just saying, look, i don't trust anybody. i don't think that is an unreasonable position for someone to take. >> a position the leadership

should take? from the state of texas a leader in energy space, their senator recognizes one of the bright minds is in the senate is that the tact that a leader should be taking? i know that sentiment exists. i hate for my teacher to say in my school these kids are children and i can't manage them because they are kids and they want to eat cake all day and pie and ice cream. >> sometimes it is leadership to stand up and say, listen, people. i don't think anybody here is doing a job that i feel is appropriate for the united states senate or the united states congress. now, i don't agree with that entire assessment but that is ted cruz's opinion. he has a right for that opinion and you served in the senate and you know -- >> i wish. >> -- sometime the body is dysfunctional and he is frustrating a lot of frugs.

>> you kn >> i think a position he is taking that is not unreasonable to a lot of americans. >> we have the three big issues that are -- the irs scandal and a.p. story and some other questions that the white house is dealing with today. given the fact that there have been some problems, i think, in communication and, obviously, some issues with the irs we can find out whether they were purposeful or not, but right now, even with how the white house is handling this story, what is the strategy on the part of republicans? what are you saying? >> i think that the republicans and democrats too now. they are involved in investigating this. i think you have to connect the dots. i think daryl issa is doing a pretty good job to figure out what the truth is. i don't think that lois lerner did herself a scandal with any favors by pleading the fifth amendment yesterday which whether you agree with it as a basis of law or not, compliimpl

some criminal aspects of this investigation. >> that is not -- >> i get it, john but when you plead the fifth after you claim that -- >> it doesn't -- >> i didn't understand. >> just to be clear. >> you don't need to plead the fifth if you've done nothing wrong and come forward. >> that is not true. not what the fifth amendment says. >> i know it's not. >> you're asserting the opposite. >> no. because if you have an administration that says they have done nothing wrong and this is just a bunch of low level people in cincinnati, and then you have lois lerner come forward and plead the fifth i think it raises question and that is the only point. >> the whole -- is questions. >> listen. i've watched the two segments you've had before me. you've all hit the nail on the head. the question is we have a lot of questions and a president and an administration that claims they want to get the bottom of this and it appears as though that we have a president and an administration that can't get a handle on the facts. now, that's a problem. >> so i would --

>> you've all agreed with that assessment. >> but that is different than what you said. there is a difference. >> i don't gre with that but the first part i do. >> the media and reporters, that's their job to ask the questions and i guess the question for you would be wouldn't you want -- listen to charles who given what just happened between you and john heilemann, i'll read this. note to gop. ben ghazi stop calling it watergate or et cetera. first it might well be but we don't know. history will judge. second, over hypering will only diminish the importance of the scandal if it doesn't meet presidency breaking standards. third focusing on this plays in the hands of democrats desperately claiming this is nothing but partisan politics. let the facts speak for themselves. they are damming enough and some would argue the other issues the white house is dealing with as well that advice would apply. instead of attacking. >> listen. i would agree, and i've said this. we have been out in public. you have to allow the evidence

to come into play. you have to connect the dots. i've said a week ago, look. you don't call for impeachment until you have the evidence. now, i'm entitled to have an opinion that i think it's evidence of political war far gone amuck on behalf of the administration. i'm entitled to an opinion that this is -- this is political guerrilla war far and lawlessness but the extent how far up it goes the evidence has to come and i think that is right. >> mr. chairman, let me ask you this question. >> i understand that. >> you used two of the phrases. >> i just used it. >> can i just ask the question? >> yeah. >> okay. >> you used two phrases just now saying we have to wait for the facts but i'm entitled to my opinion and before we have the facts just wait. you then said it's lawlessness and guerrilla war fair and obama is in the middle of. you say we need to have all of the facts before we can determine whether president obama is in the middle of it and

now you're asserting the fact he's in the middle of it. that is your public tweet. >> i would say -- >> consistent with that. >> i would say it is consistent. when i start out an investigation and say it's low level employees in cincinnati and then you find out there are senior level people in washington. then pfeiffer goes on five sunday morning shows and says the white house didn't know anything about this and two days later you figure out that the chief of staff actually knew about it. you have a hundred and, what? 15 visits from shulman to the white house and 132 democratic senators pleading with the irs to investigate this. and the chief of staff of the white house is now involved or at least knew about it when -- two days earlier pfeiffer said they didn't know about it. >> i thought you said you have the facts you need. >> i don't. >> if you don't have the facts you need why are you saying he's in the middle of it? >> you don't think the administration in the middle of this or the white house is in the middle of this?

they have already admitted it. >> you say obama is in the middle of it. >> they have admitted it. >> dan pfeiffer said the chief of staff was aware of it in april and he was not aware this was going on at the irs. >> how do you know? >> i'm going on what pfeiffer said. if you have something different you need to share it. >> what i am saying. >> pfeiffer didn't say what i think you're suggesting. they were worried about the white house in april but not worried whoever directed this and if that information comes in i think some of your assertions have greater white. >> clearly -- >> facts you're -- >> first of all, clearly the administration is more involved and has more knowledge of this than the original -- they originally put out there for the public. number one. when your chief of staff was involved or at least knew about it and then claimed that they didn't, i think that is a problem. >> new or different things legally. >> look. >> being candid. >> great. you can play this semantics all

day long. the fact of the matter is -- >> hold. >> you disagreed in three segments in a row. you disagreed in three segments in a row that the biggest problem with this as of right now is that it appears as though people around the president knew about this issue, were not forthcoming with the information and it appears to the rest of america that we have a president who is not in control of the government and administration around him. now, either at best for him, he is totally out of control. and doesn't know what is going on which is a problem. or he actually knew it was going on, or people so close to him knew it was going on and they were protecting him the entire time. >> that is a long way for the president -- guerrilla war fair and lawlessness. >> it's political lawlessness and political guerrilla war fair, it is. >> i thank you for coming on the show. we have two stories here we are

dealing with and we have been talking about for several days now. that raises a lot of questions about what was happening inside the white house. >> indeed. >> quite frankly, that can lead to ashersertions that -- >> when you're in my shoes and you have the irs targeting conservative groups and tea party groups and any person critical of the white house, what would you think? give me a break. >> i actually worry more about the communications aspect of this because i think i have more trust in this administration than you do and i cannot believe how it's been handled. >> thank you. >> i really think it should have been flagged early and just clamped down on. rnc chairman reince priebus, good to see you. >> i'm happy i did it. >> unicorn ranch again in fantasy land. >> i next history of the new america. author george packer joins us with his new book describing what he calls a super power at

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with us is george packer. he's out with a new book, the unwinding, the inner history of a new america and you talk about how everything could fall apart at the seams. set up the problem, first of all. >> this book is a portrait of the country over the last generation through stories of famous americans and americans no one has heard of. my sense is there was a deal that prevailed in this country for half century which is everyone had equal opportunity and a place and that circle had to widen because it didn't include a lot of americans throughout that period. what has happened, it seems to me the institutions that supported ordinary americans and their aspirations have eroded over the last generation, the period covered by the book. and the characters in the book find themselves more and more on their own as they try to realize their dream. as if the deal between elites

and ordinary people in this country is off. >> we have talked about a lot in the show the disparity in the country between rich and extremely poor. >> income inequality, we talk about it a lot. it is not just numbers. it is vast and nothing seems to stop it. it gets bigger and bigger and now at 19th century levels of disparities. it is as if the middle class is shrinking where we will be a nation of rich and poor and that is not a democratic society. >> no. >> i think i'm looking forward to reading it in its entirety. what are the fundamental things that need to be wound up for the unwinding to begin and is it government, business, society? what are the forces that can bring about those fundamental changes? >> there are many good policy books written. this is not a policy book. it is a narrative. it is a history from the point of individuals. i would begin with a sense of

shame, a sense of responsibility. the fact that apple this week, one of our most respected corporations turns out to be hiding billions in profits off shore is a symptom of the fact that it seems both business, government and ordinary people, none of them feel as if they need to play by the rule because it is a sucker's game to do so if nobody else is. so tax evasion is a chronic problem. during the housing crisis, getting in on a mortgage was a problem across the board and a lot in tampa where that was a particularly serious problem. i think basically a sense that we need to see that we're it in together and that we have obligations to each other and the short-term narrow self interest can be destructive. i think wall street is a great example of how that played out. >> you look at famous people in politics, but also in the media and jay-z, his rags to riches story, and how he is an example of the unwinding.

>> jay-z is a great figure for our time. he's absolutely central to our culture. his story seems to show that anybody can come from anywhere and make it in this country, which is an old american dream. his story shows that with talent and a willingness to break the rules and to play for yourself you can make it to the top. he has enormous talent and also idolized gangsters and styled himself as a pop gangster and that is a rags to riches story that doesn't rise with the middle class. it rises out of the housing project. >> people without talent that have made it to the top in this generation, as well. i turned to john. >> who she is referring to. >> there are a lot of peril in this moment but there is also

promise. talk about briefly stories in the book that talk about the way in which this has been an empowering emancipating period for people, too. >> we are in the age of entrepreneurs. the idea you can attach yourself to an institution and live your life through it is gochbl that is terrifying for people that don't have the tools, ability and education to make it on their and. dean price of north carolina, he grew up in the bible belt in a rather poor, rural area. he turned himself in to a entrepreneur of biofuels. seeing biofuels for school buses with the fall of tobacco and textiles as the answer there. and a long time auto worker in youngstown, ohio raised three kids on her own as youngstown collapsed because of the steel mills she made herself as a community organizer and made

youngstown a place where she could give people tools to survive. in the absence of institutional support people are forced back on themselves and find there is tremendous resources inside. i think there need to be structures that support middle-class people, as well. >> the book is "the unwinding." george packer, looks great. thank you for being on the show this morning. >> my pleasure. tomko burn from oklahoma is joining us "morning joe" welcome right back. [ male announcer ] when you take shortcuts,

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good morning. it is 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. on the west coast as you look live at new york city. back with us on set is john, haro. president obama is expected to lay out a broad policy. including the way that the u.s. use unmanned drone strikes. president obama signed classified guidelines limiting strikes in pakistan, yemen and somalia. places that are not acting war zones. it follows allegations that the u.s. killed four americans outside of the battlefield including anwar al-awlaki. he was the only one specifically

targeted. last month mcclatchy newspaper said they killed many militants many who had no apparent al qaeda i filluation. joe. >> obviously an explosive issue. why didn't we get the information from the justice department yesterday and is this another revelation the obama administration would prefer to have not come out? >> i think so. let's step back a bit. the obvious question is it right for the president of the united states to kill american citizens and is it possible that three american citizens were killed by accident. ? give the president some credit for stepping back. weighing, liberties versus our need for security and decides he needs to change the policy and

limit it to last-case scenario and justify publicly to the american people why he is doing this. i would love and look forward to the day when the president does the same thing with the leaks investigation and explains why it is okay to call journalism a conspiracy as he did in the rosen case and why it is okay to snoop on the associated press and how he is weighing our liberty versus our security on those cases. >> we will get to -- >> some explosive charges coming out yesterday there, as well. let's talk about the president. the shift in policy and of course these revelations. we find four americans have been killed. what does that mean for the president politically, not just with republicans but especially his own democratic party on capitol hill? >> i think, joe, this has been an issue that's been increasingly contentious over the koufrs of the past months and what always struck me, it has taken a long time for the

issue to come to a head. obviously we talked about it many times on the show, there are obviously huge concerns for a lot of people about this program on both the left and the right. this is one of these issues where because it goes to core issues around weighing, as ron said, the balance between security, liberty, issues of transparency, issues of a new kind of warfare that is going to be the way in which a lot of warfare, not just by the united states but a lot of countries around the world because of this technology will get waged going forward. these are big issues we will debate the next 20 to 30 years. we are just starting and it will turn up the temperature to a high burn. >> the president frames this later toechltd. now to the investigation in to the targeting of conservative groups by the irs. it ran in to an obstacle on capitol hill yesterday. when lois learner, the woman at the center of the scandal

declined to testify. >> i have not done anything wrong. i have not broken any laws. i have not violated any irs rules or regulations and i have not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee. while i would very much like to answer the committee's questions today, i have been 5d vised by my donnell assert my constitutional right not to testify or answer questions related to the subject matter of the hearing. >> there were a few people who weren't too happy to hear that on capitol hill her refusal to provide detailors enraged several house members. she quickly dismissed herself from the hearing drawing outrage from a congressman. >> she just waived her fifth amendment right to privilege. you don't get to tell your side of the story and not be subject to cross-examination. that's not the way it works she

issued an opening statement and she ought to stand here and answer our questions. >> the chairman of the committee says she exploring his options to bring her back to compel to testify. any possibility that can be done after pleading the fifth, joe? >> it can be done. she can come back and try to plead the fifth again. i guess that's a question, lisa meyers, are we going to see issa go after her and bring her in and have her plead the fifth again and have members saying she waived her right? >> chairman ie s >> chairman isaid -- for no reason other than to make the fifth if you call her in again

and again and again, republicans could be accused of overreaching. i think what lois lerner did yesterday is make her herself the face of the scan d.a. the "washington post" had given her four pinocchios which is their worst rating as far as credibility. we learned the irs had far more information about this targeting a year ago than they have let on. in addition, we learned two things. we learned a manager from washington, holly paz was in the -- many of the interviews that the ig did with folks in cincinnati. is so she knew the testimony about the targeting before it came out in the ig report. secondly the irs did an internal investigation about a year ago and found tluz there was targeting. the last year when they told congress nothing they had more information than they claim to

have have had. >> looking at the "washington post" today this is where white house white house counsel comes in. she was given a thumbnail sketch of the findings that the irs improperly targeted tea party and conservative groups and shared it with dennis mcdonough , herod. and shared it with white house aides and they agreed it would be best not to show to it to president obama. this leads people to question what is going on and look at what she did and her job is to protect the president but ultimately did she? >> she will have to answer that question. she's one of the most tenacious litigators in the country. it is curious why it may have happened in that string of events are correct. i have no reason to believe they are not but we will have to wait and see. lois lerner has be become the face of this. this does not bode well for the white house. the questions remain who directed her to do this? it is not clear.

when they learn this is happening what did they do to stop it and what measures did they put in place to make sure this doesn't happen again? and are there other types of targets happening? i'm sure taxpayers watching that are audited wonder whether or not there are things that are being done or have been done against them the past few years so it opened up a pandora's box of questions. >> and how the white house shows they are looking in to this seriously is important as well. >> it really is. it doesn't help a lot because the story keeps changing from the story that the white house gives jay carner to give though the press corps. it raises so many questions and now we find the president's chief dmonl the white house know about in the president's chief of staff knew about. this that is about as close -- that is as close as you get to the president of the united states himself.

got a question from ron, is it plausible that you would have the president's legal counsel who's job it is to protect him on issues like this and the president's chief of staff, is it plausible they would both know about the investigation and say, hey, you know what, we are not going to tell the president there is a scandal brewing at the irs. >> in the past few weeks? >> it is possible in the past couple of weeks she didn't tell the president. i take them at their word on that. but the adviser of the president said that the press is treating this as figure skating judges and downing the minutiae. i'm not interested in what the president knew two weeks ago. i'm interested in whether the president or anyone working on his behalf had knowledge or directed the targeting during the campaign months ago. i'm not going to assume and we shouldn't assume the answer is yes but we shouldn't assume it is no. we should be focusing on that.

>> that's the thing. i want to pass this around the table. isn't the question whose idea was this? where did the idea come from? show us that e-mail. show us the day the policy was proposed and who proposed it? isn't that the important key and who signed off on it. >> it goes to their credibility. the most important thing is who was it that use behind the targeting. >> the question of what happened once the scandal broke the notion of preserving plausible deniability. that is something we have seen in white houses for a long time. senior aides that decide this is something we should insulate the president from. it happens all the time in white houses, republican and democrat. the core question is not what happened since the scandal broke. the issue is how, what has gone

at that agency over time and has there been, as ron said political pressure, political fa nagging going on that is the core of the issue that goes to what the basic issue is here around this american institution. >> is the lack of credibility of the white house is the issue. >>. >> of course we keep getting news every day that certainly would have people in middle america who aren't connected to a party closely and not ideological would say this doesn't make sense. we heard news yesterday the justice department is pushing back on james rosen fox news reporter who was investigated for espionage against the united states and as chuck todd said was an example of the white house criminalizing reporting. he actually was reported his

parents' phones were also, their records were seized, as well, tapped. an the feds came back and said they didn't do that. now rosen is saying they did. a real back and forth in this battle. this goes to the heart of the administration. >> you can't make journalism a conspiracy. it is chilling and it is already having an effect on our ability to be able to report on national security issues. it was already tough enough. the press, as you know, has gotten a lot of criticism for laying down on iraq and not exposing the lies and deceptions on iraq. it is not because the press corps is conservative. generally the opposite is true. it is not the press corps is for war. the problem is it is awfully hard to do this kind of reporting. it is a tight-knit community. the irony here is president obama by raising a jihad against the press has made it more

likely that we will have dumb warts because of this. >> the allegations that the home of james rosen's parents were tracked is denied. but what we know about the ap phone record story and other reporters, where dud this rate? we were talking to some people last night which is the most troubling of the quote scandals? i would say the irs one is really politically tough and terrible for this white house, but this ap story is the one that's more chilling down the road. >> it's chilling also now. i agree with ron. i have seen already in dealing with people. they are more cautious about the most basic discussions. they don't want to have a trail of contact. it is having an affect. i think the irs is the bigger scandal because the irs goes to

the heart of our government. we don't know how it started but we know that mid-level managers knew about ate long time and for a year the irs essentially knowingly lied to congress and no one came forward. there was no whistle-blower. unlike the state department on benghazi when three people risked their careers because they thought the truth was not come og out. here in the irs there is nothing but silence. still ahead, building the world's most visited website is only the beginning. google is now tackling everything from eyeglasses that display e-mail to floating turbines that collect wind power. they can do everything. we have a look at the secret lab. and senator coburn of oklahoma weighs in on the federal funding in the wake of disasters. but first a check on the forecast. it has been an ugly start to the

morning in moore, oklahoma, oklahoma city. thunderstorms have been rolling through. under a severe thunderstorm watch. we have a flash flood warning and you feel for the people. a lot of stuff is destroyed this isn't going to destroy much more but you want to get in there. get your possessions, what you can find and the torrential heavy rain is getting everything additionally soaked. and more rain to the north will come to the south. moore, oklahoma, flash flood warning and severe thunderstorm warning. by far the worst weather since the tornado rolled through. here's some of the images i will take with mechl one of the thing that made this one of the strongest tornados i have seen is this ten ton tank picked up and thrown from a farm a half mile away. imagine that. this was filled when it was moved, too. right near is a bowling alley destroyed in moore.

but inside the rubble, in all of the lanes nine out of ten boulg pins sit there like they were placed down for someone to throw the next ball. you get scenes like this from many tornados. this came out yesterday. it was take bin a 19-year-old in his storm shelter as the tornado went overhead. doesn't look like he was in the worst of it but it was bad enough. the tree down to the trunk. he sat there probably with winds 150 miles an hour. just about feet away. at one point you see tires blowing by in the sky. as far as what we will deal with today, i mentioned it is thunderstorming right now in oklahoma city. we are going to see strong storms from burlington to big hamton, scranton, just outside of new york city, wilkes-barre area and washington, d.c. not tornados but strong storms with hail and damage winds. be prepared for that tonight as

dark approaches we could get isolated tornados northern texas and oklahoma. 0 away from the moore area. hopefully they will be in rural areas. we leave you with a shot of st. louis. cool, almost chilly this morning. grab a light jacket. i'm the next american success story. working for a company where over seventy-five percent of store management started as hourly associates. there's opportunity here. i can use walmart's education benefits to get a degree, maybe work in it,

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>> after a disaster our stits zens don't want or need a debate on funding. what they want is help. i want to say this to senator coburn, my good friend. he's not on the floor. i respect his consistency on this issue. even when this tornado hit his state he is still calling for offsets. he has been consistent that madam president, but in my view he's been consistently wrong. >> that was senator landrieu. dr. coburn opposed disaster aid bills in the past because he believes supplemented bills should be paid for by reducing spending on less volatile priorities and we are joined

from capitol hill with senator coburn. good to have you on board. >> good morning. set out your principle. you can't get these these offsets if you don't have this paid for up front you can't give aid if you don't have it paid for up front. perhaps it would prevent loading up disaster bills with other stuff. is that correct? >> yeah, i'd say essentially. what you just heard is why we have $17.5 trillion in debt them porker senators around here who want to spend more for parochial benefits rather than do what is best for the country vote to add things on to a christmas tree package that doesn't have to be paid for. basically it's free money so i want more. the fact is our country is in trouble. i have been consistent -- 1995 bombings in oklahoma city. i was in congress.

we paid for that. we offset it and paid for it. we made a priority choice of helping oklahoma city by cutting spending somewhere else. it is the lamest excuse in the world when we have at least $200 billion worth of waste, fraud and duplication to say, oh, my gosh, we can't do. that we have to borrow the money against the very kids you say you want to help. it is morally wrong, repugnant to me and lamest excuse that plix politicians can use and the reason our country is in trouble, that kind of thinking. >> you understand in a picture like this. we are looking at the tornado damage and recovery sglefrt it is a political game. there's nothing. there's $11.6 billion sitting in a bank account waiting to help people in oklahoma. this is all a game. it's a crash political game because i was asked these questions before we pulled the dead people out of the rubble.

it's typical washington bs quite frankly. >> i understand. and in situations like this where you stand by your position you will be accused of being uncaring. let me ask how to rectify the situation. steve radner on the show yesterday brought up an idea suggested in the subpoeimpson b that we set up a fund. >> people that want to spend money for their own parochial benefit they don't want that. just like the sandy bill. i was for the first $20 billion on the bill. the last 40 billion isn't spent for five years but we didn't have to make a priority choice in congress, we just borrowed against the future and added things on that didn't go through committee. so what you had is an earmarking, parochial benefit inside people that are well connected and that's what happened. it is not about not helping people who have a need.

it's helping the people that have a need and not hurting the rest of us. >> senator coburn if a bill comes to the floor and does not include offsets will you support it and i'd like to get your thoughts on the irs but will you support a bill if it comes to the floor in the senate? >> we're not going to need a bill. we're not going to need a pitch most of the property damage was insured. this is a 250, $300 million cost for the federal government out of the fema fund. joplin was $190 million and they had more damage than we did. it is the same game, washington creating a crisis when none exists when we have $11.6 billion sitting in the fund. it is a nonquestion. >> one more question on this. we just got back from moore,

oklahoma and responsibility for paying for things isn't just on the federal government. i assume you will allow these people to rebuild in their neighborhoods and should you require them to have safe rooms, shelters, bunkers? and for a lot of these people it is cost prohibitive. who pays for it? should you require it? it is free will for them to live there but they have to protect themselves moving forward. >> those aren't decisions that should be made at the federal level. that is decisions of oklahoma. if you live in that area of moore, oklahoma, the likelihood of being hit by another tornado is about zero in terms of odds. the fact is that is not a decision for the federal government. that's a decision for the people of oklahoma. they get to make that decision. look, the death toll was terrible, but it was very low for what we experienced. what's that tell you? that tells you people have

common sense and figure out how to do these things. we don't need a big federal government telling oklahoma what we will put in our homes when we build them or not. but we will make the judgment, make the decisions and if we want to add it to our building code we will do it. >> the odds were the same a week and a half ago and it happened sglen no, the odds weren't the same. >> yes, they were. >> that's completely wrong. if you have had two tornados in 14 years. >> yes. >> and you are saying the odds is the same going forward. >> i don't think so. i don't think the odds increase. >> you need to take a statistics class. >> it doesn't change the odds. you have 11.6 billion and one thing you could do to help them is to help build these thing on top of rebilgd. you are talking about paying for and offsetting you have to talk about what the is the best way to spend the money and wouldn't that ba federal choice, as well. >> what i will tell you is we

don't do a good job of how to spend money. look at the hurricane sandy bill. two-thirds isn't going to help the people in new york. it will help the well connected to heal. part of that is nonsense. we have too much government now. what you have already seen in oklahoma is a complete voluntary response. almost $50 million been raised. and given for the cause down there. you have seen tremendous neighbor-to-neighbor response. less than 25 people had to spend the night in a shelter out of everybody that was displaced because neighbors are helping neighbors. watch how we handle. this we will get by and rebuild and if you want to help us fine. if you don't we'll take care of it ourselves. >> harold ford jr. >> with regard to the irs and yesterday one of the directors, former directors pleaded the

fifth. questions continue to swirl. are you at this moment satisfied with the direction and pace of the investigate toir committee's approach to this and if not what questions need to be answered? >> well, what i would tell you, our whistle-blower sight has lit up and i got a phone call yesterday and one of the things i want to know is everybody that had a significant income that contributed to romney i want to know their audit rate. the indications out of oklahoma are right now if you happened to be a conservative and wealthy and gave to romney you got an audit where you never got an audit before. there are a lot of questions that have to be answered. maybe that's untrue but that is certainly the implication from people that are calling me from oklahoma. >> all right. senator coburn, thank you very much. good to have you on the show again. >> you bet. see you later. coming up, editor of bloosberg business week explains

how googles projects seem wild at first but reshape entire industries. >> anyone tell him to tuck in his shirt? >> next on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] julia child became a famous chef at age 51. picasso painted one of his master works at 56. doris taerbaum finished her first marathon at 50. not everyone peaks in their twenties. throughout their lives. passion keeps them realizing possibilities. an ally for real possibilities. aarp. find tools and support at aarp.org/possibilities.

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oh hi there. i'm just trying out my new google glasses. i had to make my own because the cofounder of google didn't send me a pair. no big deal. these work just as well. google glasses, what's four plus four? can't see the answer because i don't have my glasses on. serious design flaw, guys. >> pretty funny. joining us is the editor of bloomberg business week. the latest cover about inflatable robots, dork goggles, driverless cars. what's going on inside of google's secret lab? josh and the magazine look in to the answer. it's like they have they have their hands in everything at this point.

what's going on in the secret lab? >> this is a company with a lot of money. it's run by two guys who have a lot of interests. particularly when it comes to science fiction. they love at&t labs and why not roll the dice on some things. it is easy for them to recruit brilliant people and they are willing to fail. >> moon shot factor. >> they call it the moon shot factor because they want to make hardware that changes the world, changes the way people behave. in order to do that you have to be mocked a bit. we have all heard segway for the face. i have worn them. it is like wearing a phone on your face. they are okay with that. they are okay giving it to 1500 developers to start and see what they can make of it and they have a bunch of projects, only some of which they are willing to talk about that they think will change the world. >> different concept to apple which is sort of -- you are

going to tell people what they want because they don't know. >> to some degree. >> and this is flying stuff against the wall to see what sticks. >> apple is a company that likes unbelievable amount of control over the user experience, hardware and everything. that comes from steve jobs. the google guys, i was out there and you see sergei walking around in gym shorts. he's unconcerned about failure. they understand to make something great you are going to break stuff. you are not going to always succeed. >> i'm going deep geek on you here. >> oh, really. >> it is not like seer rock park or belle labs because they are commercial innovations. they are trying to make businesses eventually. part of the question is everyone looks at the search business and at the mobile business and thinks they will be under increasing competition going forward. how much do they care about the fact that something in its portfolio, which i think of it as a venture capital portfolio, how much do they care about one being a huge hit that will help

replace core businesses a few years from now. >> to return to xerox park, they didn't want to make it so somebody could steal it but they are not doing stuff that isn't downstream of product. we asked the guy who is running the lab astro teller who is the grandson of william teller. >> you are not making it up. >> i'm not. he is a brilliant guy but his name is astro. >> that's fantastic. >> astro walked us through how they choose projects. it needs to have some practical thing, replace a technology that it is better than. he didn't say it is going to lead to more search but when you hear what they are doing, driverless cars, google glass. we write about potential for an energy wind kit. a light plane that doesn't fly

but has a teter to the ground. it is about connectivity. the people that are connected to the web and google benefits. it is a long tail between a search yoquery and have a kite the sky. >> people that don't know park, the mouse and steve jobs came out of it. google glass may not be what we eventually have that is usable in our culture and same with driverless cars do they view it in a historical sense? do they look at themselves as pioneers? >> they are egoless pretty much but i think they understand where this could come from and where it could end up. i had the pleasure of sitting down and sergei wanders by and he started to talk about the disruption that could spin out with driverless cars. what we think of is science

fiction, the jetsons. actually when you start to play out what happens, your car is idle 95% of the time. why would you need it if the car can drive to another user why would you need to own a car? what happens to the elderly and blind. what would you do with the down time while your car is driving you to work. what about traffic fatalities and the money spent on roads. to hear it play out, it is driving around mountain view right now. people are stopping and looking at driverless cars. he has potential to be one of the few people that can change the world twice. i think they know that and are serious in their pursuit of this. this is not guys toying around in the garage. this is a real deal. >> don't you need an infrastructure to have driverless cars that would work. >> that's where the rubber hits this road if it were and you have to figure out who will own it, how to regulate it, is it licensed technology what happens when a bad human driver meets a

good computer driver? how do you insure it? there are huge questions. >> could be a problem for segway and that was simpler problem in terms of how to regulate these things on the sidewalks. turned out to be a huge issue. >> consumption will drive the way we legislate this stuff. people looked at the segway and thought i don't know if i want to be the first guy on the block to take my segway to work. fauf driverless car and you as a commuter can get back 90 minutes a day, and you are certain it will work. we will change the way we regulate and drive. >> are these glasses going to be big? they are not out, right. >> they are out to 1500 developers. >> i don't get. i'm sorry. i just can't imagine doing that. >> you will have one in two years. >> really? i don't think so. >> i think is a social challenge there. we have called it the segway for the face, you saw stephen colbert. >> i don't want it so close to

my face. i want to hold and be able to put aside. >> i'm going to bump in to a driverless car. twhaes you will see. >> that is augmented reality. that is in your eyeball. >> oh, god. i don't want that. >> your point is totally right. we all know what a user interface is right now but you don't want it on your face. >> that's literally in your face. i don't want it. >> it sends a message i'm -- >> you will have it. >> don't tell me what i have. >> your daughters will want it. >> you will have it and like it. >> that doesn't make sense. that takes distracted while doing anything to a new level. >> i think a lot of acaptive technology, it is an elevator pitch. can you make the case why i need this immediately? >> no. no. sorry. >> and google glass and driverless cars i'm beginning to get sold. >> we will look. it is stuff thrown against the wall. we will see what sticks. the latest issue of bloomberg

business week hits the stands tomorrow. on tomorrow's show, get this, actor from the show "arrested development" jeffrey tamm bore will be in the studio. i look forward to it. more "morning joe" when we come back. >> you are even scared to ask a girl on a date. >> why does everybody think i'm scared of girls? >> because you are a chicken. >> you are a chicken. >> koo-ka-cha. >> koo-ka-cha. >> i haven't found the right girl and when i do i will ask her out. has anyone in this family seen chickens?

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thank you very much. jobless claims coming in last week, better than expected. 340,000. key we remain below the weak level mark. numbers slightly better than expected. here's the problem. manufacturing data in china came out weaker than expected. that send asian markets tumbling. it has had a huge run the last six or seven months. right now that maybe combined with confusing, i guess is the best word comments from ben bernanke yesterday having futures indicate alg drop. everyone is trying to figure out what he said, basically when will we end the money printing program, quantitative easing. sooner rather than later? we have trying to parse his words. despite today and looks like a negative day for stocks we are well on pace for one of the top five first 100 trading days a

year ever. if we hold on where we are now it could be a top three start to the year to the history of the stock market. a lot has been going on but very quietly the dow has had a monstrous run over the last five months. >> all right. cnbc's brian sullivan. thank you very much. you may want to think twice before buying a snow cone at a ball game. uh-huh. >> uh-oh. >> keep it right here with "morning joe." yeah. you know the average dinner out for a family of four costs over 40 bucks? it adds up! let me show you something. walmart has lots of easy to make dinners. a great tasting meal like this costs less than $3 per serving. and if you replace just 1 restaurant dinner a week, with a meal like this, your family of four can save over $1,500 dollars a year. get out of here! ok, but i'm taking this! a small change equals big savings! get stouffer's family size lasagna or meatloaf backed by the low price guarantee. walmart.

but he with a chuckle replied that maybe it couldn't, but he would be one who wouldn't say so till he tried. ♪ somebody scoffed, "oh, you'll never do that." "at least no one has ever done it." but he took off his coat and he took off his hat, and the first thing we knew he'd begun it. there are thousands to tell you it cannot be done, there are thousands to prophesy failure. there are thousands to point out to you one by one, the dangers that wait to assail you. but just buckle in with a bit of a grin, just take off your coat and go to it. just start to sing as you tackle the thing that "cannot be done," and you'll do it. [ engine revs ] ♪ [ engine revs ] ♪ i' ♪

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brian is going to do sports. a that i need to talk to you. >> i'm going to take my time. >> not sure this is working out. >> last night there was a basketball game. >> you better keep going. >> let's take a look. nba fourth quarter, miami leading by three. take a look. paul george from indiana ties it up. heat leading by two in overtime. the same man takes the same shot. this time he misses and it is fouled. the pacers have a one-point lead. last chance for the heat. what happens lebron, where's the d, a lay up to win a game like that. it inwas an instant classic. they win the first game 103-102. how do you let lebron take the

last shot let alone make the layup on the last shot? >> they had the shot blocker on the bench. >> but still, swarm. >> how about this one, mika, will appreciate this. a little snow cone action at the astros royals game. this is a concessionary taking a break and he has his items to be sold. >> what's on the right. >> a man going to the bathrooms and the snow cones that somebody maybe bought afterwards. the flavors looks like they are intact. i think he lost his job. >> oh, why is somebody filming that? >> what did i do wrong? you did that story too early. >> that's great. i like to see brian be brian but i'm not sure i want to see brian do a paris hilton story. don't you watch our show. >> oh, my god. does she dance on the show. >> do you not know the history here. dude.

dude, you have to go. go do some googling. >> go do googling. >> how can you not know -- >> i'm not a devotee of the show. >> obviously not. >> i'm going to google it. >> whatever i did i apologize. >> there will be a quiz tomorrow. >> what if anything did we learn today? we will find out straight ahead. travel forecast will feature delays in the northeast as thunderstorms roll through. especially late this afternoon in to this evening. that includes d.c., philly, new york through hartford, providence and boston. great lakes is chilly.

high of 55 in chicago. cold rain through mist michigan. much warmer in texas. have a great day. i think she tried to kill us. oh, i can barely move a muscle. i don't have any muscles left. [ sighs ] [ chuckles ] you should really clean your ceiling fan. are you kidding me? you're gonna just throw away the last hour? no, it's only 15 calories. [ male announcer ] with reddi wip, fruit never sounded more delicious. at least i can die happy. [ male announcer ] and hard work won't have to go to waste. mmm. [ male announcer ] with 15 calories per serving and real cream,

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>> what's the name of the paris hilton song. >> something like i want it -- >> just say it. >> be a reporter. >> i want to -- >> yeah. >> dang you i believe was the phrase. >> what did you learn today, brian? >> thank you google. now i know why i should not mention paris hilton anymore. >> right. >> there it is. >> this is circa when. >> circa a long time ago. >> many 1953. >> when i was unemployed a long time ago and obviously wasn't ready for primetime. >> 1989.

torched a script about paris hilton and you are still here. >> love the hair cut. >> thank you. great book, great man, buy this book. now it is time for "the daily rundown" pete alexander taking it away. >> with the white house beating back a barrage of bad story lines, president obama prepares to address controversial issues central to the fight against terrorism. on capitol hill an overflow of outrage as top irs official lois lerner pleads the fifth. republican leaders are questioning whether she forth fitted her right by saying anything at all and founding the white house for what it knew before the story broke. also, alex trebek, talking to the long-time