>> the president left a lot of questions as to where the county actually goes. >> the speech was a mix of defensiveness and contrition over the choice he is has made. all of which he had argued -- perhaps morally conflicted. what struck you as the tone of this speech? >> i have maybe said the same thing in a slightly different way on the one hand, there's barack obama, a constitutional law professor, somebody who basically approaches this from a liberal point of view. ive he was in the senate, talking about his own policies undeniably i think would be very critical. there's also barack obama as president and like all presidents he's concerned about

preservings presidential power and presidential prerogatives. he's trying to reconcile these two, that's what this important speech is all about. it's a statement of his own good intentions. i'm on the side of the good guys here even as i'm wrestling with very complex questions. >> let's talk about some of the specifics of this speech. karen joins us as well. just wired up coming out of a briefing in the white house. karen, thanks so much. we were talking about the president and the fact that he did seem in his speech yesterday to sometimes seem a little bit morally constricted. >> imagine a future ten years from now, or 20 years from now when the united states of america is still holding people two have been charged with no crime on a piece of land that is not part of our country. is this who we are? is that something our founders

foresaw? is that the america we want to leave our children? >> is it clear, karen? he has talked about this since the first time he tried to run for president. is this time going to be different? >> i think what you heard in those lines was the whole speech. not only the politics -- and what his legacy is going to be and this promise about guantanamo bay was so important to his presidential campaign in 2008 about the kind of leader he was going to be. can he do this? you know, i don't think the politics have changed, but i think at this point he's probably feeling a certain urgency that maybe he wouldn't have been feeling in the first term. >> the navy brig in charleston,

south carolina. you can't help but wonder how this is going to go over with senator graham. >> the reason we can't close guantanamo bay is that we don't have a plan to close it. you have to have a plan. we're not dealing with people who planned to rob a liquor store, but these are terrorists. >> it's why he retreated from that goal. there's no question of what his preference is, there's no question what his intentions, all things being equal would b but this is a question where all things are not equal. he's had a very difficult time sort of navigating the different powers hire. he thinks closing down guantanamo is an important enough policy. >> there's also another pretty

sticky issue for him and that's one of drones. and the question is, is he going to add a drone court, is he going to use an independent review to oversew the use of drones? yeah, you know, it was interesting because he very clearly said there was going to be some kind of review, some kind of policy. i don't think any of us know if it's because it's still a work in progress or if this is somehow classified. but the drone program itself is still relatively popular with the american people, in that they see it as a way of not putting u.s. troops on the ground as much or in harm's way. but he's looking at the history book. >> will it be viewed, when we

have time to look back on it years hence as a tweak in the way we approach things or is this hitting the reset button? >> well the recent politics was interesting and history was interesting is that you never know the way the ball bounces. i do agree with karen, this was met as an historic statement, one that president -- oh, that was an important statement of american values, but it's also a very high risk statement. if we were in fact attacked next month, next year, even a couple of years, this statement would likewise being seen in an historic light, but it would be seen in a light of naive today or complacency. words matter and i think in many ways this was a brave speech but a high risk speech. >> i want to bring in adam schiff. we'll get to some of the

specifics but i want to ask you big picture first of all because "the washington post" quoted you that it raised questions as well as answering some. >> this is probably the most powerful portion of the speech, that he wants to close guantanamo. what happens to those people where there's not sufficient evidence or the evidence may be tainted by how it was gathered to prosecute them and they can't be sent back to another country and the president was very clear about that, that this is something that's going have to be worked out. and in each of the areas, this is a question that was left open. talking about bringing to an end the kind of global war on terror and having a more focused authority to protect the country going forward. i think the president was

talking to the american people in very sophisticated terms as he should, he doesn't talk down to the american people. the answers aren't going to be crystal clear, but we're going have to work our way through this, it's not the same threat we faced on 9/11. >> you heard what john mccain had to say and saxby chambliss said that the president's speech will be viewed by terrorists as a victory so. part of their argument and my question for you is is this administration making too many changes too soon? have we jumped the gun? >> i don't think so and the changes to the droen program as well as the changes in the guantanamo gay situation. we're at a crossroads, we're going to take a different path,

that's appropriate to do in light of the changed nature of the al qaeda threat we face, and maybe i'm looking at the glass half full, while some of the reaction like saxby chambliss was disappointing, others i am excited about. i think the president should look at that as a window to opportunity. what do you do about those difficult detainees that you can't retry and you can't repatate, but the door is open to close guantanamo and i'm encouraged by what i heard on that. >> i want to shift dpeers and ask you about lois learner. we know that she pled the fifth refusing to talk about the

targeting of tea party groups. if this was your company, if this wasn't the government, would this person have been out right fired? what do you make of all this? >> i think they would have been fired and i don't think we can have confidence in her leadership. she's decided not to resign and i'm sure that we'll follow whatever processes need to be followed, we need new personnel, we need a new level of confidence in the irs. we need them to do their job. we can't have them walk away from the need to make sure that we go after some of the sham groups that are hiding under 501c4. i'm not sure we can have the confidence in the leadership of learner and others that they do that. there were serious questions raised as to whether she disclosed to the congress. and that means that the congress

couldn't have enough confidence in her either. >> you know, karen, the cato institute had some stats on this. one in 5,000 nondefense civilian federal employees was fired for caused. and in a u.s. federal study, the federal government fire people at 1/5 the rate they do in the private sector, what is that about? >> the government is one of the few place where is you still have strong unions in play. but there's a complicated factor here for lois learner and that's when eric holder opened that criminal investigation. the stakes became very, very different. it almost guaranteed that she could not testify in congress at least not without a grant of something like limited immunity. i'm not clear here if there was

any criminality. but the fact that there was an open criminal investigation going, really does in fact limit her options and puts her in an entirely different kind of jeopardy. i think to resign right now, her lawyer is probably telling her would be to lose any -- >> i wonder if her lawyers were the ones who also told her to make this statement which made the members of this economy pretty happy. just to remind people, let me play a little bit of what everybody saw on wednesday. >> i have not done anything wrong. i have not broken in laws, i have not violated any irs rules or regulations and i have not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee. >> so that's the thing people were talking about, john, how she can go out there and say she didn't do anything wrong and

then plead the fifth? >> once she makes any statement at all she's effective lly waiveded her right not to incriminate herself. i'm glad she made the statement. i think there is a very compelling human drama, somebody who was laboring in total obscurity, with a normal life like everybody else finds herself at the center or a major national storm. and i see a woman there who's trying to protect her personal have a great holiday weekend thank you. breaking news right now out

of london, where police have arrested two men on suspicion of endangerment of an aircraft. an airline official says there was a security threat on board the plane, possibly a bomb threat. that flight was headed from lahore in pakistan with 300 people on board. it was diverted to london's stamsteady airport. some terrifying moments as two cars plummeted into the cold waters of the river. remarkably, no one was killed although three people did go to the hospital with minor injuries. when i felt the water rushing in, and i kind of came back to a situational awareness looking around, when you looked at all the carnage of the metal around you, i assumed that was

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wall street and -- -- touched off a firestorm after "the washington post" obtained this video where he says you will never see as many great women investors or traders as men because they have babies. >> and as soon as that baby's libs touch that girl's bosom, forget it, every single

investment idea, every desire to understand what's going to make this go up or going to go down is going to be overwhelmed by the most beautiful experience which a man will never share, but that emotive connection between that mother and that baby. and i have just seen it happen over and over. >> joining me now is "the washington post" reporter who uncovered the story, jana johnson and lyn povitch -- how the women of "newsweek" sued their bosses and changed the workplace. jenna, give us the background for people who don't follow wall street, who is paul tudor jones? >> he's a legend. he's made a lot of money over the years, he's the found over tudoo investments and he's also

well known in fill lant by -- by investing in health care, food programs and education. >> 104th i think on the forbes richest list, so somebody who's been very successful. but people who were watching this in the newsroom were absolutely stunned that he would say this, and there almost seemed to be like a nervous laughter in the room, don't you think. >> exactly. if you just watch the body language of the men who are on stage with him, they all kind of seem to be shifting away from him. but none of them said, you're wrong, paul, that notes the way it should be. >> lynne says if a woman doesn't have a baby she -- >> first of all it reminded me

that women are too emotional to be as they used to say emergency room doctors, litigators, pilots. >> when i started, they weren't credible enough to do real news. that was the barbara walters things that she had to fight through. but he said these women were capable traders. what he's saying is life happens to all of us, and are you willing to lose a very talented and very capable ememployee because there are distractions from time to time "if you look at marissa mayer who had a baby not very long ago, she's very focused on yahoo. >> and carol sander who is famously goes home at 5:00 or 6:00 she goes home to her family

even though she's working later. >> he was saying particularly for traders, he said it's not for managers, although if you look at wall street, it doesn't have a good record. women are at the top of those trading firms. i think the whole idea of restructuring and retraining, redefining these jobs is what has to happen. >> joe did release a statement. it reads in part, my off the cuff remarks were in regard to global macrotraders who were on call 24/7. life events such as births,

divorce, death of a loved ones and other emotional highs and lows are obstacle toss success. he went on to say that he has encouraged his three daughters to go into trading although i wouldn't necessarily say that this was an apology, would you, jenna? >> no, it's more of a clarification on what he said, and at the university of virginia, he did make clear that he was talking about traders. later he said global macrotraders, a very specific job. >> when you look at -- what year did you file the suit at "newsweek." >> 1970, 40 something years ago. >> so we're still having this conversation? >> and i think the work families who are still primarily

responsible for taking care of children without any pup liblic private support. >> i'm wondering if there is a conversation among women in your workplace when you were able to obtain this tape. it wasn't easy to get, was it? >> the whole event was off the record. the dean of the commerce school asked everyone to not talk about what happened, to not share what had been talked about there on facebook or twitter or with journalists. but the university did make a recording and we filed a freedom of information act request and that's how we obtained the video. we're really upset about these comments and we're really upset

that students were sitting in this audience and listening to advice that, you know, women are capable, women can go into this profession, but if they have a kid, they're probably not successful, they're probably not going to be able to continue. so this is something that women in the university of virginia circles have been talking about for months now. but for people who weren't in the room, hearing that video gives you a fuller understanding of what was said. it really is about the perception that member in power make it difficult for women to get power. that they come up with reasons and you can say, well, this is abo about women in highly specific jobs, but there are amount of men who make a lot of money and

hold positions of power for whom they hold off the cuff kinds of comments. >> there's no question that there are certain companies and professions that are still run like old boys' clubs. but if you want to be an enlightened employer who gets the best out of their employees who are talented and skilled, this is not the way to do it. >> but he it's certainly not a creative guy about how to run his business. >> jenna, thanks so much for coming up. beginning in january, the boy scouts of america will allow openly gay members. yesterday the scouts voted to change the

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now that's what i'm talkin' about. [ male announcer ] invest in your heart health with kellogg's raisin bran®. . to politics now where we're waiting for the president to deliver the commencement speech. speaking of graduates, the house voted along party lines on a bill to deal with student loan rates. the idea isn't popular with democrat who is want to continue current interest rates of 3.4%. and now, the president giving the commencement address at the naval academy. forgot his speech. now he's going to come over.

let's listen. >> thank you, governor o'malley for the kind introduction. thank you all for your incredible leadership and our extraordinary navy and marine corps teams. to vice admiral miller thanks for what you do for all the fact sku cullity and staff. so the moms and dads who raised your sons and daughters to seek this life of service. the members of the class of 1963, veterans who have guided these mid shipmen along the way. today is also a tribute to your

support and your patriotism and i know that the class of 2013 joins me in saluting your service as well. to the entire brigade of mid shipmen, you embody the highest virtues of this venerable institutions, and yet i know that some of you have enjoyed your time at other local institutions like mcgarveys and armadillos. but today's a day of celebration and also forgiveness. and so in keeping with tradition, i declare all mid shipmen on restriction for minor conduct offenses are here

absolved. as always, admiral miller gets to decide what's minor. some of these guys are laughing a little nervously about that. obviously most of all, it is wonderful to be able to celebrate this incredible class of 2013. this has special meaning for me as well because the united states naval academy was the very first service academy that i had the privilege to address as president. on that spring day four years ago, most of you were still in high school, finishing your senior year or finishing up prep

school. you were a little younger and i was too. you had your entire naval academy career ahead of you. the joy of i day, wonderful hair cuts, stylish eyeglasses, and all th-- high volume and very close range. when michelle brought our daughter sasha here for a visit, she got a somewhat different reception. she was just in elementary school, but it seemed like the navy was already doing some recruiting because as she went

through the doors, she saw sasha obama class of 2023. so you never know. today each of you can take enormous pride for you have met the mission of this academy. you have proven yourselves morally, living a concept of honor and integrity. this includes treating one another with respect and recognizing the strength of every member of your team. you're the most diverse class to graduate in naval academy history. and of the many proud young graduates today, 13 will serve on submarines. you've proven yourselves mentally. i know some think of this as a

small engineering school, you have not only met its rigorous standards, you have helped this academy earn a new disthingation, the number one public liberal arts school in america. and you have proven yourselves physically. a climb of two minutes five seconds. now that they put the grease back on, no one will ever match your time. more importantly, last month i welcomed coach kane back to the

white house because you beat, you beat navy and you bought the championship back to annapolis. it's the class of 2013 in your four years by the bay, you have met every test before you, and today's the day that you have been counting down to for so lock, you will take your oath. those gold bars will be placed on your shoulders and as your commander in chief, i congratulate each of you in becoming our newest officers, ensigns in the united states navy, second lieutenants in the united states marine corps. and soon you will join the fleet, you will lead marines. and just as you have changed over the past four years, so too have the challenges facing our military. before you arrived here, our

nations was engaged in two wars, al qaeda's leadership was entrenched in their safe havens, many of our alliances were strained and our nation's standing in the world had suffered and over the past four years, we have strengthened our alliances and strengthened america's image in the world. the war in iraq is over and we welcomed our troops home. thanks to our brave personnel, including our incredible navy seals, we delivered justice to osama bin laden. in afghanistan, the transition is under way, our troops are coming home and by the end of next year, our war in afghanistan will come to an end. and today we salute all the americans who made the ultimate

sacrifice in these wars, including 18 graduates of this academy. we honor them all. now and forever. yesterday i spoke about the way forward in the fight to keep our country secure. for even as we have decimated the al qaeda leadership, we still face threats from al qaeda affiliates and from individuals caught up in it's ideology. even as we move i don't understand deploying large ground armies abroad, we still need to conduct strikes against terrorists before they kill our citizens. and even as we stay vij negligent in the face of terrorism and stay true to our constitution and our values we need to stay ready for the full range of threats from nations seeking weapons of mass destruction to cybercriminals seeking to unleash weapons of

mass destruction. in these tough fiscal times we need to make tough choices at home, including in our armed divor forces, but i want you to know as you enter into what i know will be extraordinary years of service, let me say as clear as i can, the united states of america will always maintain our military superiority and as command never chief i'm going to keep fighting to give you the -- make sure that you are getting the pay and the benefits and support that you deserve.

and i'll keep fighting to end those foolish across the board budget cuts known as sequester that is threatening our readiness. with deficits falling at the fastest rate in decades, it's-time for congress to protect middle class and keeps our military strong because we have the best trained, best led, best equipped military in history and i'm determined to keep it that way and congress should be too. we need you to project power across the oceans. from the pacific to the persian gulf. 100% on watch.

we need you to partner with other navys and militaries from africa to the americas. we need you to respond with compassion in times of disaster like hurricane sandy. and in all your years of service, we need you to uphold the highest standards with integrity and character. with the time i have left, i know it's a little wet. but the superintendent told me that marines and folks in the nave don't mind a little water, with the time i have left, that's what i want to discuss today. it's no secret that many americans have lost confidence in many of the institutions that

have helped shape our society and our democracy. but i'm here to stress to you that institutions do not fail in a vacuum, institutions are made up of people. woe have seen how the actions of a few can undermine the integrity of those institutions. every day, men and women of talent and skill work in the financial institutions that fund new businesses and put families in new homes and help students go to college. we have also seen the misdeeds of some, while the risk taking and putting profits before people sparked a financial crisis and cost millions of americans their jobs. every day elected officials like those on this stage, but also all across the nation devote themselves to improving their communities and our country.

but all too often, we have seen the politic where is compromise is rejected as a dirty word and policies are directed as special interests. and that breeds a cynicism that threatens our democracy. every day our civil servants do their job with professionalism, protecting our national security and delivering the services that so many americans expect but as we have seen again in recent days, it only takes the misconduct of a few. that's unacceptable to me and i know it's unacceptable to you. and against this backdrop, what i said here four years ago remains true today. our military remains the most trusted institution in america. when others have shirked their

responsibilities, our armed forces have met every challenge we have given them. when others have been distracted by petty arguments, our uniformed services come together as one team. even in our military werks have seen how the misconduct of some can have effects that ripple far and wide. in our digital age, a single image from the battlefield of troops falling short of their standards can go viral and undermine our efforts to achieve security and peace. likewise, those who commit sexual assault are not only committing a crime, they threaten the trust and discipline that makes our military strong. that's why we have to be determined to stop these crimes. because they have got no place

in the greate esest military on effort. you're about to assume the burden of leadership, as officers, you will be trusted with the most awesome of responsibilities, the lives of the men and women under your command. and when your service is complete, many of you will go on to help lead your communities, americas companies, you will lead this country. and if we want to restore the trust of the american people deserve to have in their institutions, all of us have to do our part and those of us in leadership, myself included have to constantly strive to remain worthy of the public trust. as you go forward in your careers, we need you to carry fort the values that you have learned at this especially tugs. because our nation needs them now more than ever. we need your honor, that inner

co compass that guides you and tells you that which is right and that which is wrong. never forget that honor, like character is what you do when no one is looking. it's what you'll do when you're in the spotlight, the men and women who are looking up to you to set an example. never ask them to do what you don't ask of yourself. live with integrity and speak with honesty and take responsibility and demand accountability. we need your honor and we need your courage. yes the daring that tells you to move towards danger when every fiber of your being tells you to turn the other way, but even more than physical courage, we

need your moral courage, the strength to do what's right especially when it's unpopular, because at the end of the day, and the end of your career, you want to look in the mirror and say with confidence and with pride, i fulfilled my oath, i did my duty, i stayed true to my values. we need your honor and courage and we need your commitment. it's a sense of purpose that says i will do -- others including those of different backgrounds. it's no accident that our military is the most respected institution in america and one of the most diverse institutions in america. so recognize the dignity in every human being, treat one another with respect. remember that when we harness the talents of every man and every woman and every race and

every creed. finally we feed your resolve. the same -- if you seek an example, you don't need to look far because not long ago, two mid shipmen sat where you sit in 2006 and they inspire us today. here at the academy. brad snyder was the captain of the swim team, he deployed to afghanistan and while rushing to the aid of his teammate, stepped on an ied and lost both his eyes w the support of family and friends that learned to feel his way and move again. and before long, he was back in the swimming pool where he said, i'm free. and just one year later, brad

competed at the london p paralympics. he said overcoming adversity is a decision. you can let that beat you or you can make the decision to move forward. matt lambert was on the rowing team. he deployed to afghanistan with his marine special ops team. matt lost both his legs, he endured a longe and painful recovery. but with his new legs he learned to walk again. he passed his physical test and deployed to afghanistan again, a double amputee back in the fight and matt recently completed his tour, he's back home and he's

looking ahead to many years of service. and reflecting on his journey, his mission to return to his unit, he said he was determined however long it was going to take, it's the class of 2013, i cannot promise you a life of comfort and ease, for you have chosen an ancient path, the profession of arms which carries all the perils of our modern world. and just as classes before you -- >> president obama touching on the war on terror as we expected he would and also touching on the sexual misconduct and the trials and tribulations of all members of the military, he said it takes only the -- called on the class of 2013 to do what they were trained to do which is to lead. so we're going to take a quick break, and we'll be back with more right here on jansing and company. kosher standards that only a slow-motion bite

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the son of a sharecropper who played a pivotal role in this nation's history. here's a look at his story in today's flash back friday. >> i worked out here from the time it was built. >> the year was 1936, the guilded age of train travel. gibson became one of the pullman porters, the largest group of black workers in post slavery america. >> as a porter, you load the passengers, the baggage and shine shoes for the people in the department cars. >> now 70 years later, the tables have turned, this time he's the vip, heading to a ceremony in the oakland to recognize the extraordinary but little known accomplishments of

porters. >> they were actually the foot soldiers in the early civil rights movements. >> it was porters who supported the first black labor yuan i don't think. >> was it difficult? >> yes, very difficult. a lot of opposition. people didn't want the negros to have a union. >> they fought bigotry, ushering in a new generation of black leaders like malcolm x and thurgood marshall. >> you like this, don't you. >> i love it. >> and you can hear more from lee and check out all of our flash back fridays at our website, jansing.msnbc.com. i'll see you here on monday. oh this is lame,

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the boy scouts will allow -- 61% of just over 1,200 delegates. leaders followed the vote with these remarks about what's next in the wake of this deeply divisive debate. >> it's a very difficult decision for a lot of people. but we're moving forward together. >> now the decision has been made, it's time to move forward. and it's time to stand together. >> this will devastate the boy scouts of america. their own estimates show that 200,000 to 400,000 young people would leave the program. >> would you allow your young son to go camping with a scout troop that has three or four homosexual people who are openly practicing? >> well, the vote does not change anything for openly gay leaders like jennifer terrell.

terrell an ohio bomb was ousted as den leader of her son's pack because she is an open lesbian. >> how can they tell little boys that the people that love them and adore them aren't good enough. >> for gay and lesbian parents and gay and lesbian scouts -- >> it doesn't make any sense to tell an 18-year-old eagle scout that because you turned 18, you're not longer fit to be a scout. >> they're calling this a partial victory, but in response to the boy scout leadership, did they give any type of hint that they may reconsider the ban on gay scout leaders in the future? this is just the first step in a larger rollout. >> yeah, quite the opposite, in fact, thomas. we're just outside dallas that, vote held yesterday in grapevine, which is a