this afternoon, and we're already overwhelmed by your response. thank you for watching. have a peaceful memorial day weekend. but don't move. chris matthews and "hardball" is next. true commander. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. actually in new york. let me start tonight with this. president obama showed the guts yesterday to put the terrorism threat in perspective. it is a threat, he said. it is not a threat to american existence, nor is it a strategic threat in the way the soviet union once was. put more sharply, we americans don't have to take an ends justifies the means approach to national security. we can do what works and fits with our values and international law.

we can protect ourselves without denying the very freedoms we cherish. under bush/cheney, especially cheney, the country was forced into a war against a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and posed neither a strategic nor an existential threat to us, a war cheney justified as if it did. we were on a war footing. that was the national mindset the neocons and fellow hawks knew they could justify everything from torture, to war, to propaganda, manufactured, of course, in the vice president's office as well. the aluminum. the notion that saddam hussein had a mysterious airplane that would deliver nuclear bombs on america. dick cheney sold the notion of an unending orwellian war on terrorism as if it were a country somewhere, a country called terrorism when much of what he accomplished from putting troops in saudi arabia, to fighting an unjustified war in iraq, to waterer boarding did less to subdue terrorism than it did to give our enemies pictures and causes for war. well, obama is acting to fix that, putting the terrorism threat where it belongs, as a

serious danger that should keep us on the alert but not squash individual freedom or open national debate. david corn is national bureau chief for "mother jones" magazine. patrick murphy is a former democratic congressman from pennsylvania and first iraq war veteran to serve in the united states congress. both are msnbc contributors. let's take a look, gentlemen, at what president obama said yesterday. let's take a look at this part where he rejects the war on terrorism nostrum. >> neither i or any president can promise the total defeat of terror. we will never erase the evil that lies in the hearts of some human beings nor stamp out every danger to our open society. but what we can do, what we must do, is dismantle networks that pose a direct danger to us and make it less likely for new groups to gain a foothold. all the while maintaining the freedoms and ideals that we

defend. and to define that strategy, we have to make decisions based not on fear but on hard earned wisdom. >> david, i think there was a lot of truth in that report yesterday. i didn't realize it until i heard it again. in this element, a couple elements, actually three of them here come to mind. this idea that terrorism, some country somewhere called the united states of terror, we go to war with it. stamp it out like we did nazi germany and that was the end of the war. everybody surrenders, it's all over. no, it's in people's hearts and minds. the desire to blow up an airplane, the desire to kill yourself to kill other people. it's in your hearts and minds. the notion he can actually stamp it out as if, you know, you can get some sort of insect repellent and take care of it, or the notion that we're ever going to get completely gone with it, and if we don't, then we can't stop the war and the war footing. i thought he put it in perspective in terms of who the enemy is, what the threat is, what can be done about it. i think just about every way he put it in the proper perspective. your thoughts. >> it might be six to ten years too late, but i do agree with you that he was trying to

address a new realism when it comes to terrorism. in short term, the message was don't freak out about this. it is a challenge, but the real targets are the international networks which may be different than having some lone wolves or guys that do terrible things in boston or london. and that there -- i thought what was really interesting was watching him grapple with the dilemmas that even dealing with terrorism on a less cheney-like footing still entails. whether it's, you know, dealing with detainees or dealing with drones. and, you know, i think there are still a lot of details to be fleshed out. he wants to have more oversight and a less expansive drone program. what are the details there? the fact he's putting this out for public discussion and showing some -- uncertainty is not the word -- the fact these are issues to be grappled with is something we never would have seen under the bush/cheney administration. i think it's a mature approach

and good starting point to fill in some of the details. >> you know, pat, you were in the war. i respect you for that. thank you for your service over there. let me ask you about the mindset of cheney. this guy, he certainly was running the bush administration in terms of national security using his lieutenant rumsfeld regarding that over defense. this idea that we're in sort of a 360-degree situation where everything is terrorism, everything dominates our life. this is sort of who we are. we're sort of in that world of terrorism. it seems to be something i can't see he enjoyed, but he certainly relished that world that he could fight. your thoughts? >> two things, chris. one, terrorism is a tactic. so let's be very clear, you can't have a war against a tactic. number two, chris, you know why he was the mastermind between the past wars, dick cheney? because if you look up the military industrial complex in webster's dictionary, you will see dick cheney's picture right next to it. the guy, you know, of course when it was his war, when it was

his generation's war in vietnam, you know, he got four deferments and said he had other things to do, better things to do. now, let's be straight. he took us from focusing on bin laden in afghanistan to an unnecessary war in iraq. and especially this weekend, on memorial day, when we look at 4,400 american lives killed in iraq. 58,000 american lives lost in vietnam. we need to make sure that we're being tough and smart when we talk about the true threats to our country. >> over nearly a decade dick cheney has been incapable of recalibrating his decision on how america deals with the threat of terrorism. on "meet the press" in 2003, when the wounds were relatively fresh and the iraq war was months old, cheney gave an infinite timeline for the ridiculously named war on terror. let's listen. >> from our perspective trying to deal with this continuing campaign of terror, if you will, the war on terror that we're

engaged in, this is a continuing enterprise. >> well, in may of 2009, speaking at the american enterprise institute, this is really bringing coal to new castle, cheney remains stuck in his black and white view of the terrorist threat. incidentally, cheney began his speech moments after president obama finished his own speech defending his anti-terrorism policies. let's listen to cheney. >> here's the great dividing line in our current debate over national security. you can look at the facts and conclude that the comprehensive strategy has worked, and therefore, needs to be continued as vigilantly as ever. or you can look at the same set of facts and conclude that 9/11 was a one-off event, coordinated, devastating but also unique and not sufficient to justify a sustained wartime effort. but in the fight against terrorism, there is no middle ground, and half measures keep you half exposed. >> and on the day after

president obama told the country osama bin laden had been captured and killed, actually killed, abc's jonathan carl interviewed cheney. let's listen. >> are we safer now? >> i think so, but it's a kind of situation where we need to preserve our sense of vigilance, if you will. we need to stay just as vigilant as we have been. >> let me go back to david. i mean, this is an important transition from cheneyism to obamaism. obama's fighting the war because we have to fight it because it's something we can handle and also be americans at the same time. cheney saw it as an all encompassing reality he stepped into and wasn't actually upset with being in. he seemed to be at home in it. just that he seemed to relish the experience of fighting it and he seemed to like this notion that it would never end and that it would be an ex-potentiex potentipo ten existential threat. as if it threatened america's very existence. that got into a blood system where everybody began to talk

like that. the idea there would be bombs dropped with nuclear bombs. the idea we'd be facing 9/11s every weekend. this was out of proportion to what we faced. >> of course it led to such excesses of waterboarding and torture. you know, i think the comment you just played from the aei speech which was eight years or so after 9/11 in which he said there are no half measure, all or nothing, shows the mindset. the world doesn't tend to work in all or nothing terms. i think what the president was doing yesterday, i liked the word you used at the beginning, chris, was putting this in perspective. everything in life is often a balancing act. you could have -- we could go even further on security measures at airports and elsewhere than we have gone so far if you want to try to have more security. but we have to balance that against freedom and liberties and civil liberties. and cheney was basically arguing apt at aei, you go all out or it

doesn't matter. yesterday it was interesting when obama started talking about, there are different types of terrorism. there are these international groups we have to target and there are the small cells we may not be able to do much about before they strike. and we have to keep all this in that perspective. something that dick cheney, we're not talking about george bush, you'll notice here, never really talked honestly to the american public about. >> yesterday president obama and his speech took a clear-eyed view i think at the terrorist threat ahead of and the danger, by the way, to the united states of distorting that threat. let's listen. >> in years to come, not every collection of thugs that labels themselves al qaeda will pose a credible threat to the united states. unless we discipline our thinking, our definitions, our actions, we may be drawn into more wars we don't need to fight. >> there we have it, pat. the we of what we can do here. i've always thought, i'm not an expert, but i've studied this story like everybody has, that

the claim and purpose of al qaeda was draw the world into an east/west war. everybody involved in this and it would never end until there'd be something established and that was their goal. to the extend we show discipline and refuse to engage in war against islam which i think the president and george w. bush was quite clear about, i think we have a chance to narrow it down to the number of people we have to fight. we have to avoid stopping creating war posters. they can be used to recruit people. they can be used to fire up people in this country. we've seen this. we just saw it in boston. people getting fired up by what we did in afghanistan or iraq and using that as a basis for their own radicalization. >> that's right, chris. that's why you and david are exactly right when you're saying putting it in the proper perspective. let's be very clear. barack obama has been an ass kicker when it comes to al qaeda. he took out bin laden. he decimated, took a buzz saw to al qaeda. they are now decimated.

secondly, he has properly put forward the obama doctrine which is a shift to the counterterrorism doctrine. to be very specific, not nation building. we're focusing our efforts on nation building here at home. chris, you know why that's important? look what happened last night in the state of washington. a bridge collapsed. look what happened 5 1/2 years ago in minnesota. a bridge collapsed and 13 people were killed in minnesota. there are 75,000 bridges that are structurally deficient in our country. are we waiting for your kids or my kids to be killed? it's time to start nation building here at home. start bringing the troops home from afghanistan. refocus our efforts on the true threats but most importantly on nation building here at home. and not continuing this military industrial complexion that bush and cheney started. >> well said. thanks for coming on. patrick murphy, couldn't agree with you more. david corn, thank you, sir.

coming up, where is the irs scandal going from here? big question, actually. open question. the official overseeing the mess had been removed from duty. the acting director has been forced to resign. are the critics left now with anything more than their conspiracy theorieses? plus when he couldn't sell his tootty fruity ice cream, he offered to fight any in the house for $1. he refuses to join his fellow republicans. also why one republican congressman, has ronald reagan to thank for him becoming president. let me finish with ted cruz's wish for an all-out political war. this is "hardball." the place for politics. that i needed to make one of those tech jobs mine. we teach cutting-edge engineering technology, computer information systems, networking and communications management -- the things that our students need to know in the world today. our country needs more college grads

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for that we check the "hardball" scoreboard. a matchup with hillary clinton, catch this, senator paul keeps is close. it's hillary in iowa 46%. rand paul 42%. that's a four-point lead for hillary. look at this against vice president joe biden rand paul is ahead by five. 44%-39%. florida senator marco rubio doesn't do as well in iowa. he trails hillary by nine. rubio does have a one-point lead over biden. 40%-39%. these are close and exciting. we'll be right back. and within budget. angie's list members can tell you which provider is the best in town. you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare. now that we're expecting, i like the fact that i can go onto angie's list and look for pediatricians. the service providers that i've found on angie's list actually have blown me away. join today and find out why over 1 million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust.

welcome back to "hardball." 14 days ago is when irs official lois lerner disclosed the irs improperly scrutinized groups. that's an honest assessment. instead of getting out in front of the criticism and playing offense, the white house crowd made the key mistake, it's not immoral, but it was a mistake of thinking what the president didn't know wouldn't hurt him. there's no doubt that's cost him. let's take a look at the bigger picture here.

we now know they botched the chance to jump on the wrongdoing when senior staffers got wind of the issue. okay. that's true. the administration responded on multimilli multimilliple levels ever since. may 10th is when the president learned of the is rs targeting of the tea party from news reports. may 15th, the irs commissioner resigns under pressure. a day later the president names a new commissioner, and instructs him to conduct a top-down agency review. the next day the white house holds a pair of pr strategy meetings with former advisers. all smart people. monday white house press secretary jay carney comes clean with a more detailed timeline of what administration officials knew and when they knew it. wednesday carney strikes an apologetic tone with the press admitting the white house mishandled it here. yesterday, things came full circle and lois lerner was placed on administrative leave. she's off the job for a while. robert gibbs is a former white

house press secretary. he was part of the may 17th white house strategy session when the smart guys came in and smart women. joy reid, also smart. she's with grios.com. still an independent lady on the outside of this business. robert, you've been in there. i don't know how much you're privileged to say about that strategy session. it does seem to me based on news reports, i'm like the president here, based on news reports, you folks suggested getting this threat as fast as you could, whatever was left to put out, and basically clean house as best you can then start focusing on positive efforts like creating jobs. don't just sit there in the water taking heat and taking hits. was that roughly what you guys were advising? >> i don't -- i wouldn't dispute that. i think the white house clearly has, as you said, regained their footing even from just the beginning of this week. i think they've come, as you said, full circle, in now dispatching for leave lois lerner. i think they're in a much better place certainly than they were two weeks ago but probably even,

chris, in a much better place than they were just two or three days ago. >> let me ask you, joy, from the outside. maybe he's being too kind. i think he's a bit too kind. i think lois lerner, somebody should have outlawyered her. the idea she's getting paid full time without having to do any work is going to bug some people. at least she's off the job and not there involved in tany way f the mishandling of the files. >> lois lerner this covered this in the beginning, told the employees to change the criteria, not to do it anymore. she sort of awkwardly tried to get it out during the bar association speech. she also probably has some civil service protections. that also is an issue here. these are career employees except for the two appointed people at the top. the general counsel and the general sort of the leader of the irs. these are career civil servants. it's not easy to cashier them whenever you want. we want there to be a distance

between the white house and irs so they're not directly right on top of telling them what to do. >> you really think the american peel are going to let the president off the hook because he can't fire a bunch of people who did some stuff wrongs? they're going to say liberals gave them those work rules. that's what the voters are going -- by the way, as long as they're there, it's a problem for the president and all democrats. >> but the thing is is that i think most americans are still not at the point where they're paying, number one, a supreme amount of attention to this. >> three-waquarters of the american people think it's inappropriate. >> in the pew poll last week, a third are paying attention. mostly are republicans. it's a partisan issue. >> 44% of democrats think it was -- so it's almost 50/50. >> one thought. because it's the tea party, number one, which isn't popular, right? then number two, because this is a matter not of somebody saying something unpleasant about the president and then getting audited which all americans can relate to. now you have the question of people seeking tax exemption. where this is definitely going if you look at the inspector

general's report, george has said the next place should look is should people be getting a tax exemption? republicans have said, let's be bipartisan. everybody's ox gets gored in part two of this story. >> can we talk politics here instead of talking this thing you're doing right now? half this country's on the right by definition. maybe a third is on the hard right right now. they think -- they mistrust the federal government. now they get wind of the fact the federal government is targeting their crowd. you tell me that's not a problem politically for the president to harden up his opposition, to enthuse them, energize them, get them to hate him? now having handy evidence? that's not a problem? >> i think there's a part of the country that already hated the president. >> who's more likely to vote in 2014 now? the people really ticked at him or the people mildly still in support of him? >> now you get to a point. >> that's what i innocent. >> republicans were already at war -- they operate like they're in a association. the other side smelled blood in the water.

this came out at the same time they were looking at benghazi, "ap." the opposition to the president is geared to war. the white house typically has not been. i think they looked flat footed. >> let's get back to the expert on the inside. robert, how can they improve their situation henceforth? if they've begun to come out of the problem, the ditch they were in, i think they're climbing out of the ditch right now. is there any way they get all the way out of this ditch unless there's a good significant number of removals of people in the irs where this problem is? i think charlie rangel or somebody said it's a cancer, it has to be removed. unless that's removed, the whole federal government is perceived as guilty. >> i think that's correct. i think this first administra administrative leave should just be the beginning. i think the acting commissioner should drill down and figure out why this happened, who was involved and get them out of the irs. let's be clear, chris. if you're a progressive, we're not going to hold the white house forever, right? eventually there's going to be a republican president and we don't want politics to enter

into the irs tax code regardless of what party you're in. i think -- >> i think especially for democrats who really, you know, if you're going to be the government party, the ones who really believe in the positive nature of federal government activity, you aught to be the governing party as well. you ought to be good at what you believe in. that's something i always go back to. the democrats have a much bigger stake in making government clean and effective and useful to people because they want it to be used. republicans don't mind disasters because they just tell people, hey, you're right, there are a bunch of clowns back there in washington, or worse than that. >> not to mention, this is -- you're going to see this -- you've already seen it enter into the health care debate. >> already. >> you're going to see this in virtually every debate. the republican talking point will be if the administration can't control the cincinnati office of the irs, how are they going to do blank? how are they going to secure the border for immigration reform? how are they going to implement health care reform? so this is a dangerous issue that has to be dealt with. the good news for the president is voters don't hold him responsible for having caused this problem, but like in a

natural disaster, they expect him to fix it. >> by the way, this gives credence to all the loony tune arguments out there. i'm not going to say people are loony tunes, themselves. if you're somebody out there like michele bachmann, for example, saying, oh, may have all these secret health records on you, they're going to spread them around and make you a fool to all your neighbors. that is credible to people on the right and the center right right now because of this problem over at the irs. i'm sorry to say these things. i'm not happy saying these things the last two or three weeks. >> right. >> but they're true. >> weren't they going to say that, anyway? >> it's called evidence. after watergate, it meant something. thank you, repoobert gibbs. i'm older than you. joy reid. thank you. i know you went to harvard. up next, do we have ronald reagan to thank for barack obama's presidency? wait until you catch this logic of iowa congressman, yes, steve king. it's coming in the sideshow. this is "hardball." the place for politics.

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ha! well, back to "hardball." now to the sideshow. president obama spoke at the u.s. naval academy in annapolis. he gave the commencements address. anyway, but he hit a slight snack before taking off an marine one. hint. here's what we usually see before the president boards the helicopter. here's what happened today. i like to see that humility. the president back tracked to shake hands with the marine he ignored. remember when the gop candidates couldn't stop praising the thing reagan had done? fishes around for reasons why president obama got elected and

now he thinks it might actually circle back to ronald reagan, himself. it's all to do with the 1986, well, it was the immigration act. he calls it the amnesty act which granted amnesty to immigrants who arrived in the united states before 1982. here's stephen king. >> there's something like 15 million people in this country, not discounting deaths and those that might have gone back, that were the beneficiaries of the 1986 amnesty act. so i just pose this question. does anybody think that barack obama would be president today if the 1986 amnesty act had not become law? i don't believe barack obama would be president today if ronald reagan hadn't made the most colossal mistake in his career in signing the 1986 amnesty act. he let me down that day. >> another comment on history from the guy who thinks president obama is an illegal immigrant, himself, came here after being born in kenya, that's what he thinks. next, when outrage goes awry. pennsylvania republican governor tom corbett was asked whether he had any latino staffers,

himself. >> do you have staff members that are latino? >> no, we do not have any staff members. if you can find us one, we will. >> either one of you want to come to harrisburg? >> here's a great quote. if you can find me one, let us know. in fact, the spokesman later said corbett does, in fact, have one latino staffer. this comes a few weeks after corbett suggested one reason for pennsylvania's high unemployment rate is that employers can't find job candidates who are able to pass a drug test. and this is the governor of the state. finally, yesterday marked former congressman anthony weiner's first day on the campaign trail as a mayoral candidate. it was a crazy one. even people who couldn't have cared less about his campaign found themselves in the brouhaha. he was blocking a subway entrance in new york, according to the "new york observer."

"the situation got so bad at one point two police officers were forced to intervene, escorting mr. weiner and reporters away from the entrance." the tweeting scandal that forced his exit from congress in the first place was not absent in the first place. one bystander said, "instead of a hug i really wanted a text." interesting bystander. anyway, the madness followed weiner on to the subway. one person in the crowd advised "stay off facebook and all of that. leave that alone." this candidacy, as i said the last couple days is a disaster for new york, a disaster for the democratic port aartyer a. society. progressives love the family feud going on in the republican party. john mccain is taking on the tea partyer partyers. ted cruz, well, he's going after everyone. that's ahead. you're watching "hardball." the place for politics. this day calls you.

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i'm eamon javers with your cnbc market wrap. stocks end the week little changed. dow manages an eight point gain. s&p and nasdaq finer flat. procter & gamble gained more than 3% after it said it was bringing back its former ceo. a different story for sears. shares slid 13% after it posted a wider than expected loss. and orders for durable goods rebounded last month rising 3.3% following a steep slide in march. that's it from cnbc. first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." after this week, there's no hiding just how dysfunctional the republicans on capitol hill have become. the issue was a usually routine

vote on the budget. what played out on the floor of the senate over several days showcased a party at war within itself led by ted cruz of texas, rand paul of kentucky, mike lee of utah and marco rubio of florida. the tea party wing shows no interest in governing. in fact, they win points with the base for obstructing things from getting things done in washington. what an interesting political party. john mccain the most outspoken of the old guard republicans couldn't hide his frustration and anger. h he called cruz's objections to a conference committee on the budget bizarre. on wednesday cruz fired back and raised eyebrows with his strong critique of both democrats, and catch this, his own party. republicans. >> senior senator from arizona urged this body to trust the republicans. let me be clear, i don't trust the republicans. and i don't trust the democrats. and i think a whole lot of americans, likewise, don't trust the republicans and the democrats because it is leadership in both parties that

has gotten us in this mess. >> well, there's demagoguery for you. listen to how mike lee explained his opposition to forming a conference committee. this is just to get the budget done. they've attacked the democrats for three years for not having a budget. when they did have a budget, they said you can't operate. let's go. >> the american people do not trust secret backroom deals. neither do i. unless and until the american people are ensured we will not sneak a debt limit increase into conference report, i will happily continue to object. >> he's objecting to the house and the senate coming together in an open meeting covered by c-span and any press that want to go in, any public that want to tgo in. there are no backrooming. he completely made that up. let's watch. here's mccain hitting back. >> if the senator from utah wants to get rid of the, quote, backroom, all of the other adjectives and adverbs that he used, then what is the process? what is the process? how do we reconcile legislation

that's passed by one body and the other body? there's -- that's what we've been doing for a couple hundred years. >> will the senator yield for a question? >> all i can say is has the senator from utah have another way of reconciling legislation between the house and the senate? of course not. of course he doesn't. of course he doesn't. of course he doesn't. maybe the senator from utah ought to learn a little bit more about how business has been done in the congress of the united states. >> mccain's right on that one. how deep is the rift in the republican party? you saw it i think. what exactly are ted cruz and his friends up to? chris cillizza is managing editor of postpolitics.com and an msnbc contributor. michael mccauliffe for the "washington post." being on the senate budget committee for three years and watching them do it in a bipartisan fashion especially in the senate and going to the conference with the house and getting things done, actually limiting spending and controlling taxes, they actually

got the job done. for three years they haven't gotten the job done. just as they're starting to do it, this cruz crowd comes along and basically want to screw the whole thing up and not get anything done under the false premise that people meet between the house -- they're going to somehow raise the debt ceiling without having to go back to both houses and getting it approved by the very republican house which wouldn't approve such a deal and even the democratic senate would have a problem with it. chris cillizza, we usually think alike in understanding how washington works. what is cruz talking about besides his own demagoguery? he seems to be blowing a horn for the hard right by saying i'm against government. >> let me add one point to your points, chris, which are right. which is if it went to conference committee, house republicans passed a budget bill, they would have people on that conference committee who presumably wouldn't just vote to allow the debt ceiling to be raised. look, what's going on here, i was watching all the clips and thinking back. people say the senate, it's gotten so much more

conservative. there have been many conservatives in the senate. jesse helms was as conservative from north carolina, as conservative as most of these guys. but there's a belief among ted cruz, mike lee, rand paul to a certain extent, though i don't know if i'd put him in that group, that the senate as an institution has basically failed. it's the jim demint argument. jim demint is the prejenetor of this. the way things have been done in the senate are by nature, therefore, wrong. that's why you hear ted cruz say, look, i don't trust how this is going to work. i think mccain and others say what's the alternative here? but it's a rejection of the institution, chris, i think more than it is anything about who's a conservative versus who's a moderate within the republican party. >> you know, michael, i don't know why they don't wear uniforms like the code pink people do or other political group. show up, we're here to screw things up.

all we're here to do is heckle. they look like hecklers. i'm sorry. mccain is right. he knows how the government works in it wants to work. if it doesn't want to work, there's a lot of ways to screw it up. these guys are doing it by saying, oh, we can't meet because we might agree. even though it's on television, it's a secret meeting, therefore, we can't have it. i mean, they're just making it up. >> they're playing to their base. they have folks who, as chris said, really think the senate is dysfunction dysfunctional. >> this is the dysfunctional -- >> the temper tantrum is going to make it more dysfunctional. >> they want dysfunction. that's what they're organized to do. they want to stop the meeting of the government, basically. i tell you, it's new. this is new. >> they have an extraordinary situation now where you have republicans bickering on the floor of the u.s. senate, making great video clips for the "huffington post." >> right, for you. let's take a look at reince priebus, my favorite points of interest here. he's scared to death to say anything against the cruz crowd on the hard right because he's

afraid he might get bumped off and no longer be rnc chair. here he is, priebus. >> i think ted speaks for a lot of americans, are just sick and tired of everything. >> yes, but is ted helping himself in terms of being effective in washington? >> i think he's representing a voice out there of people that quite frankly are tired of everybody. i think that that's true. i think you all can agree with that that there are lots of people out there that get tired of politics and tired of washington, d.c., in general. just saying, look, i don't trust anybody. >> that's the chairman of the national republican party. any political party. i think he's a disgrace. your thoughts, chris cillizza. i know you can't use words like that. isn't it unusual for the chairman of the party to justify this kind of crazy iness? >> well, chris, if you asked reince priebus is ted cruz making your job harder or easier? the answer is he's making his job harder. i don't think there's any question about that. when you have this kind of open fighting within the party, they're not in the white house, you have this battling for control of it. what reince priebus is doing in

a way, though, is the only thing he can do, chris, which is ted cruz does represent a significant portion of the republican base who is sick not just of president obama and democratic leadership but is sick and doesn't trust republican leadership in washington. so he, reince priebus is exactly right in what he says, which is ted cruz does stand for a lot of people. that is the problem with the republican party right now. they're not singing off the same songbook and don't have a leader. you can agree with barack obama on the democratic side but it's quite clear he's the leader of the party. there's nobody on the republican side like this. >> this is the way they're going, the republican party, the rand paul crowd, mike lee crowd. rather than a moderate wing of the party like christie and rubio. if they're going to the hard right, they're going to extend the democratic rule of control of the white house for 16 years the way they're going. thank you, chris cillizza. no matter what runs. up next, the one and only

carol king. she was at the white house this week where president obama presented her with the gershwin award. we'll find out what they were chatting about. this is "hardball." the place for politics. ♪ it's too late, baby come here, boy. ♪ there you go. come on, let's play! [ male announcer ] there's an easier way to protect your dog from dangerous parasites. good boy. fetch! trifexis is the monthly, beef-flavored tablet that prevents heartworm disease, kills fleas and prevents infestations, and treats hook-, round-, and whipworm infections. treatment with fewer than 3 monthly doses after exposure to mosquitoes may not provide complete heartworm prevention.

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interstate 5, the major north/south highway on the pacific coast over the skagit river. actually it collapsed last night after a truck carrying an oversized road ran into a girder. three people suffered minor injuries. that's lucky. it's another example of america's crumbling infrastructure. the president should insist congress pass a real jobs bill to get people back to work fixing bridges like that, rebuilding our roads, bridges, everything. we'll be right back. [ musick ] i knew there were a lot of tech jobs available out there. i knew devry university would give me the skills that i needed to make one of those tech jobs mine. we teach cutting-edge engineering technology, computer information systems, networking and communications management -- the things that our students

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by 15, she'd already conducted her first orchestra. by 17, she'd already written her first number one hit, which you've already heard, "will you love me tomorrow?" with tomorrow" with jerry. at this point, all of you are feeling like underachievers. i understand. >> there is president obama pretending to know all about music. carole king is here, recognizing her incredible achievements in music spanning six decades, including hits we all know, i even know them all. "you've got a friend," "i feel the earth move," that's her, of course, "you make me feel like a natural woman," the loco-motion," so far away. i know that one. she'll be performing may 30th for boston strong. and tonight she's here. thank you, carole king. >> it's a pleasure to be here.

>> depending on the mood, if i want to be -- i want company, i listen to cousin, i listen to all of the old song. if i want to be alone, i listen to all of the pops. you have real you are really played heavily. i hope you're getting royalties. >> i hope so, too. >> your relationship with president obama there, we saw you chatting in the front row. what does he talk to you about? can you tell snus. >> well, i'd like to say that i was telling him what to say in his speech that he gave yesterday but that would not be true. >> great speech. >> it was a great speech and i have been telling my friends on the left, put yourself in his place. but, no, what we were talking about, he whispered to me, what year did you write, "will you love me tomorrow?" and knowing his birth date i said 1961.

>> after all of those years of song writing and recording did one just hit the top and stay there? >> i don't know. you know, it happens. there are many people mortal lented than i am but i am lucky to be where i am. i'm not saying i don't have talent. i'm just saying it could be anybody. so go for it. >> you know, humility is off base on kanl television, don't you? >> not in this party. >> let's talk turkey. i thought the speech was great because i've been fighting with my son and daughter-in-law about this drone thing. i think sometimes you have to be tough and it's better than starting a war and it's certainly better than just sitting there and getting hit. but your thoughts? >> well, my thoughts are that the choices he laid out, he has eliminated choices. he can't do nothing. if i'm in charge of take being care of the american people, my country, i'm going to do something. and that was probably the most effective way that he could think of at the time. and i know there were a lot of problems, which is what he

addressed yesterday. he's taking -- he's actually saying, i'm going to give up some of the power. when have you heard a president do that? >> he's going to restrict the use of these drones in cases involving nonamericans as well as americans. we're not just going to be free shooting. let me ask you about the one i didn't hear fully addressed yesterday. gitmo, guantanamo. there are men, committed islamist terrorists who want to get us, get the west, kill people. but you don't have a case against them. they haven't committed a crime that you can take them to court, maybe certain evidence is tainted. what do you do with them? i think that is a real conundrum for a lot of people. >> there is no easy answer. if there was, i would be making millions of dollars as a consultant. but the point is, even if you have to keep them, there should be a process and congress shows no willingness, or at least the republicans show no willingness to work with the president on a process. the question of where you put

them is -- >> not in my backyard. >> exactly. where you put them is a question. and the other thing is, you talk about what do you do with people when you don't have a case? in our country when you don't have a case, murderers walk and it's horrible. and that does put people at risk. so i don't know -- i'm not saying that's the right answer. i'm saying why it's a conundrum. >> you've been raising money for him, he's a great candidate. he agrees with me on all of these things. he's great on the environment, energy, and all of the issues. >> ed has a record to run on. you know, he likes to make a joke about everybody paths their pockets to see that they have their device when they leave home. >> yeah. >> ed was instrumental in getting these laws, breaking up the monopolies and getting this thing going. he's not claiming to have invented the internet but he's certainly helped create this technique. >> don't expect some senator to vote them later. >> i'm all about turnout in

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let me finish tonight with this. ted cruz of texas is a disaster, not for the party that ran him for the senate. he says he doesn't trust his

fellow republicans. neither does he trust democrats. a reasonable bipartisan agreement itself. no, ted cruz wants all out political war. he wants to bring counsel the budget, forfeit any crown and prefers a chaotic capitol hill where he can stand in the middle of the legislative traffic yelling stop, where he can derail any budget control in order to bring attention to himself. he's come to washington because dysfunction is what he dearly hopes to one day challenge. pay attention to senator cruz because he is the unsmiling contentious face of the nasty hard right fringe of a party that once competed with the democrats to be the party's governing parties. all he wants to do is prove that self-government is evil, impossible, or whatever else will justify his exist ens of a bomb throw we are.

and that's "hardball" for now. have a safe holiday weekend. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. thanks, chris, and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, the gop's setting up shop in scandal town. instead of investing in america, for weeks they have been on a mission to bring down president obama with controversies. and now they are not just doubling down, they are tripling down. the national journal reports that the gop will keep stirring the scandal stew over the memorial break. forget jobs. forget policies. interviews on local television and radio programs, republicans plan to talk about the obama administration's, quote, credibility gap. now, i'll be the first to say that what happened at the irs was wrong. but