♪ i'm a hard, hard worker... ♪ membership rallied millions of us on small business saturday to make shopping small, huge. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. good morning from new york. i'm steve kornacki. the new york star ledger reported last night that the woman who came in to fix rutgers university after a coaching abuse scandal was herself accused of verbally abusing players as the women's basketball coach at university of tennessee 16 years ago. and the long, long a waited new season of "arrested development" debuted on netflix early this morning, which means hard-core fans right now are on episode 11

possibly enjoying the chicken dance. right now i am joined by marin koegen, and a former member of hillary clinton's staff in the u.s. senate, richard kim, executive editor at the nation.com. and a senior editor covering national politics at the atlantic. president obama will meet more people in moore, oklahoma today after the tornado that killed 24 people. high school graduations were held in moore yesterday. attendees held up a photo of teri long while they walked across the stage. long was one who died in the tornado. none of these events were political in nature, but the political actions to it have revealed an area of tension in tea party republicanism. one of the most conservative states in the country will be relying on federal funds to address this disaster.

earlier this year, tomko burn and jim imhoff voted against the package in hurricane sandy. he said this won't change his attitude, that it should be matched by spending offsets, that is, by cutting money from something else. many lawmakers disagree, including democratic senator mary landrieu from louisiana, a state who has seen its share of storms. same with tom coburn from oklahoma. coburn and his colleagues may not have to vote a funding bill this time around. they have more than $11 billion in its disaster relief fund. probably enough to help oklahoma, but natural disasters like this won't stop happening. we've hardly heard the last of this debate. i guess that's what's striking about this is, initially when we had the disaster this week, i think there was an assumption that that means we're going to have to go to congress and look

for some kind of disaster bill, and it happens this time, the damage is in such a concentrated area compared to sandy where it spread out over all these different states. it even went to the caribbean for sandy. the price tag is not going to be as extensive. but it does feel like we address these things on a case-by-case basis, whether it's katrina, joplin, missouri, whether it's sandy. this time there's enough money in the fund, but i feel like we have this debate once a year where there is a disaster and we're like, wow, we need the federal money, but we should off s offset the money. it seems to me a foolish way to address a disaster. >> going back to something you said, these senators did vote against that initial package and then they're saying, well, we don't need any more money, but you have the money there because of the fact that people overrode your vote and put the money into fema. what's also very startling is they sort of are confleeting

these offsets with bund ling and putting some of this money into bills, but that may not necessarily be relevant. the scary part about it is they're referring to these packages as entitlements. and i think that's truly unfortunate, because these are people's lives and neighborhoods that need to be rebuilt. these aren't entitlements and you shouldn't demonize these people that actually do need the help. >> the tea party jest in general ends up getting addressed toward disaster relief. >> i think what we're seeing in oklahoma is a naturalization of the disaster relief fund strategy where you have the moneys there so they can be distributed really quickly on the ground without having to go back to congress. unfortunately, in sandy, the funds had run dry by the time sandy hit new york, and so i think it's possible that in an era of climate change where we're seeing more more dramatic weather events that we might need to have more money set

aside for natural disasters. >> and because of fema, the budget is being cut by 8.2%. the national weather service and noah which played a dramatic role and got out warnings which gave people time to go underground or in shelters, they already have a 10% vacancy rate at the national weather service, so the sequester and austerity regime is really going to impact this. it just so happens that it doesn't this time around. we'll see what happens in hurricane season. >> it's because the fund was somewhat replenished when the sandy relief package went through. part of that was to sort of have this set-aside money for events like this. i want to go back and play a before and after. this was jim inhoff back in september when the sandy bill was on the senate floor. >> i come from oklahoma. we have disasters all the time. we have our tornadoes. they're very, very serious, and, of course, we take care of the

problems when they come up, we do get some federal help, but nonetheless, we analyze what the damages are and what was caused by the particular disaster and not just use that to open the door and have something in there for everybody. $16 billion, and there's something for everyone in there. >> i mean, he's actually -- he's prescient, in a way, he's acknowledging this is what his state faces. he's saying, this bill is full of waste, but this is what he had to say after the disaster did hit his state. >> that was totally different. they were getting things -- for instance, that was supposed to be in new jersey. they had things in the virgin islands, they were fixing roads there, they were putting roofs on houses in washington, d.c. everyone was getting in and extorting the tragedy that took place. that won't happen in oklahoma. >> i love how he said virgin islands.

it sounded like a foreign aid bill. sandy did impact new jersey. there were roofed damaged. there was a fund in alaska that was a tsunami damage from japan. are there things in there not directly sandy related? that's different from saying there was waste or unnecessary. >> the tea party kind of feeds on -- i think there is sort of this knee jerk assumption that most americans have, that the government is big, but it's bloated and full of waste everywhe everywhere. there is an assumption this is where the waste is, this is why your taxes are high. the money is being squandered because there is an extra billion dollars in this package. this is not where the cost of government is. this is not what makes taxes over 30% for some people. we're talking about the defense department or something. that's where big money is. >> that's absolutely right. this goes to sort of the fundamental question about what do you think government does? and you're absolutely right.

this is not what costs money. i mean, when people get into situations, and i was with then-senator clinton during 9/11. this goes back to a fundamental understanding or assumption of what you want your government to do at times when you most need them. >> i just want to jump in here because part of the problem here is that there is sort of a toxic legacy of fema from the bush administration, right? we know that fema gave no-bid contracts to republican companies, companies like hal burton. carnival cruise lines got a no-bid contract to house hurricane katrinaie v ie vaevac. coburn has been consistent, along with barack obama, who was the first to point out the carnival cruise lines contract. >> coburn is going all the way back to he's a member of congress when the oklahoma city

bombing happened in 1995, and he was articulating the same position back then. >> this delegation is one of the most conservative in the entire country between senators coburn, imhofe, and you have the house as well. the impetus is going to be on them if they believe there needs to be offsets and spending elsewhere to come up with those cuts, pass them immediately and get everyone to agree with them. the funding is there this time, but it's not going to be there all the time. >> coburn was on "morning joe" this week, and it was interesting how he kind of explained this. i want to play what he said and talk about it. >> we've got too much government now. what you've already seen in oklahoma is a complete voluntary response. almost $50 million have been raised and given for the cause down there. you've seen tremendous neighbor to neighbor response where less than 25 people had to spend the

night in the shelter for everyone who was displaced because neighbors are helping neighbors. you watch how we'll handle this. we'll clean up, we'll get by and we'll rebuild. and what we'll say is, if you want to help us, fine, if you don't, we'll take care of it ourselves. >> just that basic "we'll take care of it ourselves" is the tea party attitude towards government, and i think back in the stimulus when that was going on in 2009, you had public governors rejecting federal money, coburn has been consistent. this has been his position his entire political career, but i think what's different over the last -- he came to office 20 years ago. this is very prevalent within the major political party. this is the position of the movement. this is what the republican party is saying, and it's not only affecting disaster relief, it's affecting the entire government. >> i do think with the case of oklahoma, there is something specific going on there with tornadoes which does allow for neighbors helping neighbors because they're discreet, they have a path that ends and they

don't cover an entire city like a hurricane does. oklahoma is number one in disasters. we'll be dealing with oklahoma disasters sometime soon again, i'm sure, given their history, and it's just a matter of imaginetive capacity of tornadoes which do have these violent pathways. >> when you talk about offsets, where is that money coming from? i want to talk about that after this. active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain and inflammation. plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function so moving is easier. celebrex can be taken with or without food.

and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen, naproxen and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning. they all may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death. this chance increases if you have heart disease or risk factors such as high blood pressure or when nsaids are taken for long periods. nsaids, like celebrex, increase the chance of serious skin or allergic reactions or stomach and intestine problems, such as bleeding and ulcers, which can occur without warning and may cause death. patients also taking aspirin and the elderly are at increased risk for stomach bleeding and ulcers. don't take celebrex if you have bleeding in the stomach or intestine, or had an asthma attack, hives, other allergies to aspirin, nsaids or sulfonamides. get help right away if you have swelling of the face or throat, or trouble breathing. tell your doctor your medical history. and find an arthritis treatment for you. visit celebrex.com and ask your doctor about celebrex. for a body in motion. you know, from our 4,000 television commercials.

yep, there i am with flo. hoo-hoo! watch it! [chuckles] anyhoo, 3 million people switched to me last year, saving an average of $475. [sigh] it feels good to help people save... with great discounts like safe driver, multicar, and multipolicy. so call me today. you'll be glad you did. cannonbox! [splash!]

so i mentioned the idea of offsets, and tomko bu coburn al calls for this when he's in his home state. he says, if we're going to take money for disaster relief, we'll take something else from the budget so we're not spending anything new.

i think it's worth a pause and asking, when he says this, where in the offset is the money coming from? it's not coming from the military, it's not coming from entitlement programs, medicare or anything like that, it always comes from non-discretionary, and i think it's a pattern here where republicans -- and they don't have control of the senate, but they have managed the last few years to really chip away at programs like meals on wheels, head start. every time you have a budget review, you have the sequester, all of this eats away at that portion of the budget, and when tom coburn says offsets, that's what he's talking about. >> and ryan had them cutting fema almost 40%. it is, in a sense, demonizing people that actually need this kind of help and need this kind of aid. and going back to before 9/11,

what struck me is when the senate would come in and take a look at the damage, they didn't understand how people lived. they would say, those office buildings, right? actually, no, those are apartment buildings. people live there. they have no idea how people live, so when you're trying to make a projection in one state and say, i've never lived in new york, i think this is what they need, it's wrong but that's what you see all the time. >> when you look at it, it raises the question, the republican party, there is a divide in the republican party where there are republicans who represent states where the attitude towards government is a little different. but there are republicans in oklahoma who have a different attitude about this, and i want to play sound from one of them here. this is tom cole, congressman. his hometown is moore and this is what tom coburn had to say about his offset idea. >> i don't want to spent a lot of time on this.

i voted for hurricane sandy relief and there's always a better way, maybe, to do things. but when a disaster happened, the people on the ground need to know they're going to get help. if we can do that in a prudent way, i want to do that. but at the end of the day, my objective is to make sure the people get the help they need in a timely fashion. >> tom cole's background is he ran the republican committee for a few years. he's someone a little more aware and attuned to attitudes outside the tea party base of the republican party. again, it's also his hometown, but he also voted for sandy aid. so before it affected his hometown, he also had this position. it's striking to hear him raise that point. >> when he said, i voted for sandy, he's sort of pleading empathy. he's a little different in this delegation because he's been there a lot longer. i think he's a little conservative but he's also a pragmatist. it's funny what you mentioned

earlier about republicans chipping away at the spending. they don't have the senate, they don't have the white house. a lot of these tea party guys are new and frustrated they haven't been able to get anything done, so you see them attacking these small things. >> in this particular thing, the funding for disasters, there's not a separate bill. they are really laying down that their consistent on this, and that is playing to the tea party base for the primaries. this is all rhetoric here, not actually substance. >> right, right. and again, it's interesting, too, that it's oklahoma because i sort of think a couple states could qualify. oklahoma is sort of the capital of the tea party line. this is probably the most conservative state in the country and this is a message that still has resonance. that basic we don't need the government attitude that t tom coburn doesn't need the government is a reflection in this state. >> the republican party is not a national party right now.

they're a party that represents very deeply culturally homogeneous districts and they represent the people who live where they live, and they don't want to represent the nation as a whole and think about how to govern an entire nation, a diverse, populous, differently constructed. >> you talk about the frustration, when you have a guy like governor christie who spoke at your convention and then you get upset when he hugs the president when he comes to visit your state, that epitomizes it, in my position. >> that's great, because we can talk about coburn, we can talk about imhofe, we can also talk about a republican with a dramatically different attitude on this whose state benefits from this and whose state has contributed benefits. you know who i'm talking about. we'll get to that next. now available for use in the keurig k-cup brewer. always good to the last drop.

now available for use in the keurig k-cup brewer. are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule. the first technology of its kind... mom and dad, i have great news. is now providing answers families need. siemens. answers.

to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. that was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again, and now i gotta take more pills. ♪ yup another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪ [ male announcer ] this may, buy aleve and help those in need.

it's memorial day weekend, which is sort of the traditional start of the summer season. in new jersey, the traditional start of the summer season on the shore, and, of course, the

context for all of that this year was this was the first summer season after sandy. governor chris christie was there last week. they had this giant ribbon cutting to officially open it. not everything is back to normal, but there is significant progress because of the federal aid that christie was sort of instrumental in bringing about. i want to revisit that for a minute. this was chris christie when republicans like tom coburn was holding up sandy aid, this was chris christie earlier this year. >> there is only one group to blame for the continued suffering of these innocent victims. the house majority and their speaker, john boehner. this is not a republican or democratic issue. national disasters happen in red states and blue states, in states with democratic governors and republican governors. we respond to innocent victims of natural disasters not as republicans or democrats but as americans.

or, at least, we did until last night. >> sandy aid package obviously eventually did get through, but the problem is we should not respond to as democrats and republicans. the risk here is it's becoming something we respond to as democrats and republicans, and christie represents the most vocal force of the republican party who is keeping this from becoming the litmus test in the republican party that happens every time there's a disaster. he got major points for this in new jersey. i'm not sure in the national republican party he has. >> it's interesting how the tone changes between congressional republicans and republicans that have to sort of govern the whole state or govern at a national level, and that really sticks to this point about house republicans having to ger gerrymander in these states than governors who have to govern on

a state scale. >> you've got this sort of erosion of the northeastern republican and sort of rockefeller republican. we can debate whether or not christie represents that, but the emotion of that i think definitely plays into the region. >> where that rubber sort of hits the road with that is with the medicaid expansion and the health care exchanges. you have governors who are in charge of their states and those states would benefit from implementing these changes in the medicaid expansion. and they just refuse to. it will be interesting to see if they stay in power as executives in these states. >> we've talked about that a lot, how sort of the red state/blue state divide every election night is really now rearing its head when it comes to public policy. gay marriage we talked about, the medicaid expansion is another one, and disaster aid, the governor of blue state new jersey will welcome disaster aid. again, it became an academic issue in oklahoma this week because they'll have money from

fema, but who knows if they hadn't. christie was at one of these beach openings this week and he was basically asked about the idea, hey, look, some of these guys in oklahoma tried to hold up funding for you, what do you think about giving funding to them? this is what he said. >> two wrongs don't make a right, angie, and i would urge all the members of the congressional delegation in new jersey to support swift and immediate aid in whatever amount is deemed necessary for the people of oklahoma. this is not a time for political retribution. what this is is to bring our country together. >> and he was also asked about, you know, president obama. he praised president obama a week before the election for his response to sandy, and he was asked if he regretted that, and he was asked about the white house, how the white house and the administration sort of followed up on the promise to help on sandy. he said, i have no complaints about that, no regrets about the previous election. again, i look at what's happening on the jersey shore this weekend and it's mostly good news. there are lots of issues with the cleanup but it's mostly good news.

i also look at chris christie and say, that's going to help him in his election this year. his popularity is almost dropping every time this happens in the republican party nationally. >> it's pretty shocking to me, actually, because they just will not embrace their own. and you're right, this is a reelection year for him. there is some controversy because he's a in some tourist ads, but this really can only help. >> that's right, there is this $25 million ad campaign, come to the engineer sh. >>jerry: -- jersey shore and it sort of stars. >> chris: -- it sort of stars chris christie. he said, it would be weird if i wasn't in this. >> standing up and being national figures that are very much appreciated for what they're saying right after national security or natural disasters, but it will be interesting to see whether or not that kind of popularity carries over if he runs for

preside president, you know, where he will be confronting a base of voters that is much like what is like in the coburn districts. >> i guess that's the issue, the chris christie of 2012 and 2013 who is thinking, i have to run in new jersey in 2013. we've seen that happen to politicians many times. in fact, immigration reform and the forces behind it, that's next. e transforming and the revolutionizing. it's enough to make you forget that you're flying five hundred miles an hour on a chair that just became a bed. you see, we're doing some changing of our own. ah, we can talk about it later. we're putting the wonder back into air travel, one innovation at a time. the new american is arriving.

[ female announcer ] for everything your face has to face. face it with puffs ultra soft & strong. puffs has soft, air-fluffed pillows that are dermatologist tested to be gentle on your skin. face every day with puffs softness. orren g. hatch, the man who was sworn into the senate when "happy days" was one of the most popular shows in america voted for immigration reform this week. sort of. he voted to move it out of the senate judiciary committee. it will still be a while until it moves to the senate floor. still, it's a really big deal.

also depressing. two other republicans on the committee, lindsey graham and jeff lake voted for the bill, too. but they were part of the gang of 8 who voted for the bill before it went to the committee. hatch was a surprise. he was a conservative republican, he wasn't part of the gang of 8 and nobody knew what he was going to do. and he voted yes. that yes vote was really a big deal because it made the committee's vote look lopsided and bipartisan. 13-5 was the final tally. that suggested that conservatives like hatch will end up supporting it when the senate votes on it, so the senate will also look bipartisan and lopsided. this is critically important and here's why. the way washington works, and works is a relative term in this day and age, the way washington works right now, the only way to get big legislation enacted is to rack up a big bipartisan majority in the senate. not only to get the 60 votes you need to break a filibuster, but to get more than that. when that happens, it isolates the house and turns up the speaker on john boehner and his

republican conference. here's this deep, broad, bipartisan support. are you really going to let it die? this is invithe violence agains women act, how it got through this year. that is roughly how immigration will get through if it gets through. so that's why it was such a breakthrough to have orren hatch cast that vote in the judiciary this week. now let me look at debbie downer. when you look at what it took for orren hatch to cast that vote, what it took to support that reform in a committee vote, then the story explains why almost nothing important happens in washington anymore and why that's probably not going to change any time soon even if immigration reform does get through. let's wind the clock back three years, to may of 2010. it was the utah state republican convention, and it was where hatch watched as the other

republican senator evaporated on the spot. that was bob bennett. he had been in office for three terms. he was very conservative. the tea party was rising and bennett had worked with t.a.r.p. and worked on a health care bill with democrats. the vote was taken. bennett got 26%. and that was it. his career was over right there. and/orren hatch was a witness to all of it. he knew right away he would be the tea party's next victim unless he changed his ways, and unless he did it quickly and dramatically. hatch has always been a conservative, won a seat in 1996 running as a reagan republican against the old nixon/ford regime, but he was also interested in governing which meant compromising occasionally, working with democrats, sometimes speaking his mind. before there was a tea party, orren hatch put his name on a bill with ted kennedy, who was a close friend, to create the children's health program. he signed on with the original mandate. he proposed an early version of the dream act. he even tangled with jesse owens

with the act reached the senate floor. >> i never heard once in this chamber anybody say to the homosexuals, stop what you're doing. do you realize that if they would stop what they're doing, there would not be one additional case of aids in the united states of america. >> senator, i don't agree with that. there wouldn't be among homosexuals, but there certainly would be other cases because of the prevalence of the disease right now. >> i don't agree with him that if all homosexuals quit having homosexual contact that that would end the aids crisis. i don't think it would. >> that's the orren hatch the world knew until the tea party started winning, something that scared hatch. he was up for reelection in 2012 and he wanted to keep his job. so he changed. he went full tea party. orrin hatch, a guy who was okay with the original mandate called

it a dumb ass program, a piece of crap, a mon stros ty. the dream act, he called it a ridiculous pact among aids. he was trying to become the most hated man in this godforsaken country. it meant shutting down every and any instinct he had to compromise, to legislate, to do the real work of a united states senator. and it worked. hatch survived 2012. he won six more years in the senate. and that gave him just enough space, just enough political cover to vote for the immigration reform bill this week. in a committee. without attaching an amendment with no guarantee he'll vote on the floor in an era when there

are voices couraging republicans to work with the democrats. it took years for orrin to take this one tentative step and he's not alone. congress is full of orrin hatches these days, which is why i'm not holding my breath waiting for the next big breakthrough. i want to talk about the compromise on the democratic side after this. my mother made the best toffee in the world. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business.

my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. [ female announcer ] stress sweat is different than ordinary sweat. it smells worse. get 4x the protection against stress sweat. introducing new secret clinical strength stress response scent. get 4x the protection against stress sweat. if yand you're talking toevere rheuyour rheumatologistike me, about trying or adding a biologic. this is humira, adalimumab. this is humira working to help relieve my pain. this is humira helping me through the twists and turns. this is humira helping to protect my joints from further damage. doctors have been prescribing humira for over ten years.

humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. for many adults, humira is proven to help relieve pain and stop further joint damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal events, such as infections, lymphoma, or other types of cancer, have happened. blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure have occurred. before starting humira , your doctor should test you for tb. ask your doctor if you live in or have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. tell your doctor if you have had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have symptoms such as fever, fatigue, cough, or sores. you should not start humira if you have any kind of infection. ask your doctor if humira can work for you. this is humira at work.

as we were just saying, with orrin hatch's support, the gang of 8's immigration reform package cleared the judiciary on tuesday with a bipartisan 4-5 vote. but in reaching that bipartisan majority, a big compromise was forced, one that put two democratic constituencies against each other. it all happened after senator patrick leahy of vermont, chairman of the committee, introduced a bill that would add

protection in the law to treat them as equals with straight couples. >> i don't want to be the senator who asks americans to choose between the love of their life and the love of their country. this gives a segment of the americans that who they loves is a travesty and ripping americans apart. >> they warned that the vote would shatter the gang of 8's opinions. >> we all know this is going to blow the agreement apart. i don't want to blow this bill apart. >> they've made it perfectly clear, if plain words and on multiple occasions, that if this provision is added to the bill, they will have no choice, as senator graham said, to abandon our collective effort and a once in a generation effort to pass comprehensive immigration reform will be finished. >> and so senator leahy,

recognizing that the amendment would not succeed and having forced his democratic colleagues to explain their opinion in public, withdrew his vote. who is at the table now is marin coburn of the new republic, and we have richard kim of the nation and garon of the atlantic. this is a definition, i think, for democrats on this committee of just a wrenching compromise. just from a very basic sort of, you know, political coalition perspective, you have two key cogs within the democratic co ligs that were baf -- coalition that were pitted against each other, and you were forced to choose between them. you saw feinstein urging democrats that we have to be pragmatic about this and we can't satisfy both. let's make sure we satisfy at least one. >> i think the fate of that

showed that it gave the law that the whole thing isn't bipartisan at all. the numbers are bipartisan, but if you look at the sausage making on this, it's happening inside the republican party. if it went straight up for a vote in the senate, it would get 54, 55 supporters, clear by a healthy majority, but it won't get a vote in the senate. it didn't even get a vote out of committee in the chamber that the democrats control, right? and that set of ratios show democrats are sort of ornamental on this process. the left flank is defined by the republican numbers of the gang of 8. you have in the center orrin hatch, people like pat toomey that they're trying to convince, and senators cruz and grassley on the right. and that's really where the arguments are happening, and it's sort of a shame that because of the filibuster, you have the majority of people in the senate are sort of on silence of the whole process. >> it is the filibuster's party, obviously, because now in the senate, basically the rule is 60

for everything. if you don't have 60, you're not going to get anything done. but the second component is the house. the new sort of formula for passing anything is huge in the senate. you get 60 in the senate and it's five republicans joining the house saying, the whirhino republicans did that. i'm not joining that. but yeah, the discussion is the republicans get to set the terms as long as they control the house and as long as it's 60 votes in the senate. >> that was a problem the way things went down with these compromises, you say, in the senate, is that there was no compromise. this was a side issue from the start, and when i was talking with rachel tiven, the head of immigration equality, after the senate's judiciary committee this week, what she said was that she wasn't so upset with chuck schumer and senator feinstein this week as she was that he didn't make a harder press for lgbt occlusion back

when they were crafting the bill. >> and others, i put this statement up, this is the doma project on schumer and feinstein, and what you saw in the intro there. this was the moment that required courage and leadership. the most vulnerable members of our community relied on senator schumer and senator feinstein to stand up for us and end decades of catastrophic and irreparable harm to our families caused by doma and our exclusion from u.s. immigration law. think about the logic behind what schumer and feinstein did. if they were pushing for this from the beginning, is there some way markco rubio would be involved in this? >> that came from those who helped craft the language for the families act, and what they

saw this week was that this issue that had been since democrats began talking about comprehensive immigration reform several years ago. sam same-sex couples were a part of that discussion. and then all of a sudden this week, on tuesday, they were told, well, no. not really. and i think that where that left a lot of temperature krats feeling was exactly what richard described, which was that this isn't the bipartisan comprehensive bill that democrats had been fighting for all along. >> which is the dilemma, you know, immigration reform is the big thing that might get through, but it's a dilemma for anything, you have to get right now republican support if you're going to get anything through the senate and you have to marginalize the house if you're going to get to the house. if you're going to get that vote in the senate, if you're going to get republicans to vote for it, is there any way you can include the lgjb provision and

still get that number? >> it could still get back the senate, at which time it would be useful for democrats rather than have it go to the floor of the committee. a 4 vote would put republicans on record with an anti-gay vote probably just weeks in advance of the supreme court decisions. it still wouldn't get it into the bill, but it would be more politically useful for democrats as a failure. >> right. >> the question is, what happens in that vote? i mean, does -- if it fails, that means that is chuck schumer going to vote against that provision in order to satisfy the other members of the gang of 8, or is it going to be a situation where because it's not going to get above the 60 votes, the gang of 8 is okay with them voting that way? >> i think that's the idea, it's a symbolic effort to put on record the phobia of most of the republican party minus susan

collins who supports this. >> that 60 vote thing now also tends to apply to these amendments. it's not a straight-up vote in the amendment. i guess if they had the amendment, it would almost be for show. that's the dynamic we talk about with republicans. by and large we have republicans who are trying to satisfy republican audiences and republic cab constituencies. at this point is there a political incentive for them to do that. you mentioned a supreme court ruling is coming down, and i think that affects it. i want to talk about that after this.

thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it.

kids are like sponges. they soak up everything. especially when it comes to what you say and do. so lead by example and respect others. you won't let prejudice into your home. the more you know. he mentioned we had the supreme court ruling coming up in a few weeks and potentially getting rid of doma, and chris, i know you wrote about this week there are some sort of complicated legal questions here, but the possibility is this entire debate over whether lgbt families should be included in the reform bill could be mute if doma is thrown out.

>> if section 6 of doma which prohibits the senate from honoring same-sex marriages is stricken down this june, then the provision that same-sex couples can't get green cards with their spouses because of doma becomes applicable, and at that point the entire idea of needing a separate law for same-sex couples does become mute. in some cases there will be people living in states where they maybe can't get married, they can't afford to travel to a state to get married that still provides difficulties. the underlying basis for why the uniting american taefamilies acr the secondary amendment that chairman leahy introduced that would recognize marriages specifically becomes taken care of. >> so they would be forced, without any act of congress, the congress would be forced to

recognize same-sex couples. >> i'm sure the obama administration would say, would be allowed to. all of a sudden, now same-sex couples -- currently if a same-sex couple applies for a green card based on their spouse, they're denied. or actually, now they're pretty much put into abeyance because the obama administration is probably hoping they'll be able to grant those green cards. >> does that change administration to administration? if republican president rand paul comes in in 2016, can his administration start reversing that? >> if doma section 3 is struck down, and if a future administration attempted to stop granting green cards to same-sex couples, then couples would have a lawsuit on their hands. >> so it would be tied up in court. the dilemma, like i said, just for the senators this week is so fascinating, and it might be that the democrats were a little more willing to not pick the

fight on this one because of the pending doma decision. but another thing i wanted to just say, this is gabriel rona is the american prospect and he was talking about, do you vote against this bill now if you believe in lgbt equality, and he invoked the example of russ feingold who invoked the legislation of 510. they had to appease frank -- scott brown. a bill that would be about $20 billion was not there, not part of this decision because he would not stand on the table. these are the decisions you have to make. this is what legislation looks like, these kinds of

compromises. >> if you just say no to everything that's not perfect, you're ted cruz, basically, and i think the democrats don't want to go down that route. at a certain point, you have to govern. there is an opportunity before them to arrive at something that will take 11 million people to a different legal status and really change their lives, and there's a greater opportunity to do it now than there has been in 25 years. if the democrats don't do that -- we don't even know if this will make it to the house. if the democrats don't take the opportunity to keep this going, that's 11 million people who are left hanging. and i don't think they can do that in good conscience. >> i know graabriel got a lot o flak for suggesting they should take one for the team, and a lot of gay activists were angry with senator schumer and feinstein this week. the people affected are also gay and immigrants, right? all these people in these

national couples have the same pa pathway to citizenship that straight immigrants do, just not the marriage one. they have also a vested interest in getting this bill passed, any kind of immigration bill passed with the pathways to citizenship. >> we were talking on the show yesterday about fdr and the new deal and all the wrenching compromises that he had to make, and you can talk about the advancements that african-americans made because of the new deal, and it's true, fdr was looking to do that. fdr also drew some lines that in history don't look good, but at the time anti-lynching laws came up in 1938. fdr wouldn't put his name on it because then he said, that would cost me the south on every vote i need to save the nation's economy. so he made that kind of a brutal compromise that may have been necessary at the time. >> i don't think -- i think it is important to note that none of the lgbt advocacy groups have said that if same-sex couples

aren't included, this bill should go down. they have supported the legislation, and it's put them in a difficult -- i mean, i think they've been put in the difficult position that you described the democrats being in, because they don't want to be seen as torpedoing this bill. >> we'll keep this going right after this. come on, sulley, it's the last play of the game!

whoa, wait for me! oh no! my mom just cleaned this place! calm down, squishy, this'll be easy to clean. [ female announcer ] swiffer wetjet pads have the scrubbing power of mr. clean magic eraser. they trap and lock away even monstrous messes

to make tough cleaning a breeze. now that's clean. wow. scottie! we won! uh-huh, uh-huh. mom?!! [ female announcer ] swiffer gives cleaning a monstrous new meaning. monsters university, in theaters, in 3d. hello from new york. i'm steve kornacki with marin copyland, richard kim and new york magazine. we talked about a bill the senate faced this week, a tough choice where patrick leahy offered an amendment to the immigration reform bill. it would grant the same rights to gay couples as straight

couples had. chuck schumer, who is at the art of crafting this gang of 8 compromise kind of led the way. diane feinstein joined him. al franken also chimed in where they were making the case, if you support immigration reform, you can't have immigration reform without that. in watching that kind of choreography, it struck me how that gang of coalition on both sides has really stuck together. you've had republicans who are trying to peel off marco rubio and trying to offer ways to get him off of it and he's fought them off, and here you have democrats basically doing the same to their base. >> yeah, i think it was watching the -- i mean, there were points at which senator graham was saying, senator flake was saying, look, we've taken it from our side on some of our amendments and we've stuck with you, which i think was sort of a

key note that, like, as these votes come up tonight, you better stay up with us as well. they did, actually, they did vote on that would deal with family unification, and that was a situation where those same people where senator durbin and senator schumer said, we need to protect the gang of 8 and voted against it. >> the collusion of the gang of 8 is really something to watch, especially for people who were there for the 2007 immigration fight really know to stick together on things. i think they recognize. when lindsey graham says he'll walk, listen. if marco rubio says he'll walk, listen. the people who went into this fight in 2007 just don't want to go through this again. >> it is amazing. we had the last comprehensive immigration reform almost 30 years ago, in 1986, and this is

an issue that has really been on the agenda now in washington for a decade, and really, if it doesn't happen now, it's not going to happen. >> i think also what you're seeing, you know, because of the cohesion of the gang of 8 debate and most of the democratic party being on board for this already, no matter what the final bill looks like, is that the tea party is really making an effort here to kind of sandbag the whole process and that's really grassley and cruz. there is an interesting kind of cruz/rubio match-up for the presidential primary, and one of them is going to be rubio can pass this and be a signature piece of national legislation, and cruz is looking to take it down. that's what happens every day in that committee. >> richard, you said at the start of this, like it or not, fair or unfair, republicans really are, sort of, at this point you have to get republican support to get through the senate and you have to have the republicans put this up for a vote in the house. the question is how do we get

there? the wa"washington post" was talking about how marco rubio is approaching this, how his staff is approaching this, and they are monitoring how much the conservative host is spending talking about this. marco rubio has given the subject 12 minutes a day, in england, 35 minutes. this is where your agenda is set, basically, in the conservative movement. it sort of trickles down from there, and if you're marco rubio, you have to be terrified that they're going to turn this into something like they did in 2007 where this is a litmus test issue for republicans. this is what he's fighting against right now. >> and i give rubio -- i mean, i give him a lot of credit but he's been going to conservative radio hosts, he's been going to activists, he's been going to members of his own party in the senate and trying to keep everyone on board. it is kind of remarkable that this freshman republican is playing such an instrumental role. but, you know, the house is

going to be the real test of that, because they're not likely to be impressed with anyone, i think, unless he goes down there and sort of holds each hand individually and says, yes, it will be okay. it will be a real test for him, i think. >> and rubio, what he's doing, it may work for him for 2016, but he's really doing something for the sbentire republican par. they need this bill if they're going to be a national party, if they're ever going to win the presidency again, they need this bill. so rubio is out there. and people who want to think it's in their interest to tank it for their 2016 interests are wrong. they're just wrong. >> it becomes one of those shortsided/longsided things. if it is a litmus test, it could help your chances in 2014. many of them are worried about the next presidential primary rather than the next general election. >> and marco rubio has his eyes on the prize for having a party that is viable nationally. senator cruz is not an adult

republican. i think that's really clear when you look at what is happening day by day on this bill, that he really is only playing to the base on this issue. >> i think that's true and we've seen that with gay rights issues, is that rubio's language about the reasons why the same-sex couples amendment shouldn't go through and couldn't be a part of it were almost always gauged in terms of the impact this would have on others. he has used very nuance language about the way that he treats gay people that i think is notable, and we will see especially after june, depending on how the supreme court rules sort of a model for how i think republicans are going to be looking at gay issues moving forward. >> uh-huh. another interesting thing dairk i'll put this up, too, that there was a letter this week from 100 conservative economists. and they were talking -- this

was to republican congressional leader, and they were urging government reform, glenn hubbard, he is a romney adviser in 2012. this is sort of the holy grail of supply side economics. and they're all weighing in and it speaks to maybe that's something that kind of breaks -- that can break the instinctive republican economy, maybe that's something that can pressure john boehner to put this on the floor. >> they're getting a lot of things for that. it's already the most secure border you could possibly imagine. they're getting visas for high-tech workers. they are really getting a lot out of the bill by its con stipt waenss. . utah is a state with sort of a growing high-tech industry.

so the expansion of the visa program for high-tech workers chls that was sort of his price and it got in there. that's what i was talking about in that long read. that's lejs lagt, right? you can say, hey, it's interesting to see that happen from a guy like orrin hatch, and we haven't seen that from any republican in the last few years because the political calculation has just been instruction and instruction. are there any issues besides immigration we can see that attitude on? >> i think the republicans, the adults in the room, as you said, richard, see that the vote in favor of immigration reform and the voices for immigration reform are potentially more powerful by the time we get around to 2016 than the tea

party will be. and they're making that judgment by deciding which side of this they're coming down on. >> i think all they need to do -- all they need to say to their conservative opponents of immigration reform is, how many national elections do you want to lose? it's becoming increasingly clear about immigration reform is going to be a huge party? how many elections do you want to lose. >> but then the flip side of that question is, document to lose your next primary? house district, if you sign up for this, you get all this direct money from the conservative grass roots, and at the heart of the dysfunction in washington is you look at the republican house. those are members who aren't thinking, right, about the next national and the next general

election. they're thinking about the next primary election, and it breeds the kind of mentality we talked about. i want to thank marin coburn, steve greidner. how apple avoided billions in taxes. that's next. ♪ now roundup has a new sharp-shootin' wand ♪ ♪ i'm sendin' them weeds to the great beyond ♪ ♪ roundup yeha! [ whip cracks ] ♪ ♪ no need to pump, just point and shoot ♪ ♪ hit 'em in the leaves, and it kills to the root ♪ ♪ 'round fences, trees, even mulched beds ♪ ♪ 'cause the only good weed is a weed that's dead ♪ ♪ roundup yeha! [ whip cracks ] [ male announcer ] roundup... [ whip cracks ] with the new one-touch wand. [ agent smith ] i've found software that intrigues me. it appears it's an agent of good. ♪

[ agent smith ] ge software connects patients to nurses to the right machines while dramatically reducing waiting time. [ telephone ringing ] now a waiting room is just a room. [ static warbles ] [ telephone ringing ] now a waiting room is just a room. if you have the right tools. ryobi has over 50 products that work off of one 18 volt battery. and with new improved lithium and lithium plus batteries, you'll get a whole lot more done in less time. plus, they'll improve the performance of every 18 volt tool we've ever made. now that's getting more power for your money. ryobi one plus. the one system that delivers more. available only in one place. the home depot. right now, pick up a ryobi 18 volt lithium ion cordless trimmer for only $99.

on monday, democratic senator carl levin of michigan revealed the bombshell results of a senate investigation to the tax record of apple who managed to avoid paying billions in corporate taxes for years, saying its permanent subcommittee is investigations found that apple used a network of offshore subsidiaries that in many cases had no employees and were largely run by officials at the california headquarters. one of those subsidiaries, called apple operations international, is registered in

cork, ireland. it has not filed a tax form with any government in five years despite bringing in more than a billion dollars this profits. it's beyond what most taxpayers be seen. he criticized. >> the country redivider have no room for creativity. what they also didn't know was that apple has a i'll elevated tax system. a system in which they will. apple cmo tim cook said that paid nerl all that was owed. he also said his offshore cash holdings were justified. >> on you former seb sadier.

>> we use these earnings to fund our foreign operations, such as spending billions of dollars to require equipment to make apple products, and so find our construction of apple retail stores around the world. >> the sheer size and scope of taxes. it will uncover one in september and uncover similar groups so you have to have 40. bloomberg reported in martha american companies may now hold more than $1.9 trillion in cash reseshs overseas. people in both parties seemed to agree that tax code should be reformed, but they disagree over how to do it. it would eliminate the vast

majority on the profits of american companies. lawmakers to the left, like the presidential politics. obama also supporting the tax rates overall in exchange for closing loopholes. i want i want to before you. he has a business, and editor for the "washington post." >> i don't have a background in business, i don't have a background in the corps counsel. it seems to me that apple is doing two things, one is

avoiding to do taxes, and it's not subject to irish foundation, either, so they basically found this sort of sweet spot where there is no taxationier, and yet they're reporting all these profits over there. i don't know the law that well, but it seems to be awfully sneaky. >> i don't consider apple to be an irish company. they moved the intellectual capacity over to rights in ireland. 4% of their work foes, though, is only one percent of the commuter base. that's strart liartling to me. i don't consider them an italian business but that's where its business is. >> where it lowers itself tore tax rurnt as.

every corporation that operates internationally now is looking at what apple has done and is seeing, oh, maybe we should the dime. . the company let's these falls snam. apple will say we're incorporated over here in ireland, and in ireland they tax based on where you're controlled by. apple said, we're controlled over in california. so they avoided taxes on $104 billion in profits over the last four years. an enormous amount. that's probably about $30 billion that could be coming back into the united states in terms of taxes. >> it is what apple did, as sneaky as it looks, is legal, right? >> it's absolutely legal. they took advantage of the fact that american law and irish law simply treat corporate earnings differently and they found this sort of gap between the two systems. what's remarkable is as

aggressive apple has been at this, they are not the most successful companies. apple support on that list that paid no taxes at all, so it's an incredible genius system they came up about, but it's not billions of taxes of. well, the stimulus bill gives a tremendous amount of opportunity to off set any losses. so you can earn profits but not register any accounting profits that are taxable. and that's how you really get down into that zero territory. nothing as what poinl have been able to do. >> particular countries that are able to move money pho different countries depending on which

hotel has the best rate? they can do it pretty quickly and they don't have actual places to move. they're doing this pretty nimbly. that's my question is, if these companies are a model for the way others should operate, how are they able to have personal growth. >> pfizer is an example of that. high-tech companies, drug companies. pfizer generates -- we did a report called corporate tax advisers. they generated about 4% of income in the last few states, and what do they pay for taxes? zero. the reason is they were claiming most of the profit was being generated abroad, because they were taking their patents and

life-as i hadded ful on the basis of where its patent is. >> so you intend the income problem has been jn rated in that part of the country where they pay a low tax. that's why they put it over there to begin with. >> we talk about, though, how that arrangement is legal, and there was an interesting moment at the hearing this week, senator, that took this a step farther. here's what rand paul had to say. >> i'm offended by the spectacle of dragging in investigators from an american company that is not doing anything illegal. i would say what we need to do is apologize to apple, compliment them by the job they're doing. let's look at the company

nationwide. now, someone made the point that apple might be paying less taxes than originally intended, but i have to say, just listening to that, there is a certain lock logic, and you're trying to minimize your tax bill as much as you can, and it looks really bad and shrinky. isn't that what your share hoerlz expect of you? >> i think it is. this is the congress created. he can create a bigger one where you're investigating tax lawyers being intelligent in the way it's written. these companies, as yolanda was saying, they're taking advantage of the fact they don't have any physical contact, but the people involved are still physical.

congress can tax the executives. they should text the people if they think we need more. it sends the message to the average american that the rules are different if you're a small business. what's interesting about the hearing, relatively speaking, these senators were somewhat effusive in their discussions with apple and ceo, and he was able to turn it around in an afterable sort of way. apple is such a huge part of our culture now, nobody is going over there to act out. it tells the small business owner that the rules are different from them. >> a lot of it we're getting

into right after this. [ male announcer ] erica had a rough day.

there was this and this. she got a parking ticket... ♪ and she forgot to pay her credit card bill on time. good thing she's got the citi simplicity card. it doesn't charge late fees or a penalty rate. ever. as in never ever. now about that parking ticket. [ grunting ] [ male announcer ] the citi simplicity card is the only card that never has late fees, a penalty rate, or an annual fee, ever. go to citi.com/simplicity to apply. see, i knew testosterone could affect sex drive, but not energy or even my mood. that's when i talked with my doctor. he gave me some blood tests... showed it was low t. that's it. it was a number. [ male announcer ] today, men with low t have androgel 1.62% testosterone gel. the #1 prescribed

topical testosterone replacement therapy increases testosterone when used daily. women and children should avoid contact with application sites. discontinue androgel and call your doctor if you see unexpected signs of early puberty in a child, or signs in a woman, which may include changes in body hair or a large increase in acne, possibly due to accidental exposure. men with breast cancer or who have or might have prostate cancer, and women who are or may become pregnant or are breast-feeding, should not use androgel. serious side effects include worsening of an enlarged prostate, possible increased risk of prostate cancer, lower sperm count, swelling of ankles, feet, or body, enlarged or painful breasts, problems breathing during sleep, and blood clots in the legs. tell your doctor about your medical conditions and medications, especially insulin, corticosteroids, or medicines to decrease blood clotting. in a clinical study, over 80% of treated men had their t levels restored to normal. talk to your doctor about all your symptoms. get the blood tests. change your number. turn it up. androgel 1.62%.

go ahead, lon. >> thank you. even though we're talking about big numbers here, corporate taxes are a very small portion of the overall revenue that the government takes in. there's something like 242 billion in corporate taxes collected in 2012. there were a trillion dollars in individual taxes that were collected. so when we talk about this problem and problems with the corporate tax code, et cetera, there are problems overall with the tax code, not just on the corporate side. so when you also think about questions of appropriation, should you bring the money back, you bring it back and tax everybody 10%, that's still only going to gets you if another $100 billion. >> that's one of the debates about something that can be done, is this idea of repatriation for the holidays. standard former tax rate is $400,000. they normally have to pay a 35%

rate but the call is to give apple a chance to bring it back now at a much lower rate. we tried this before, though, didn't we? >> yes. and we've got to get away from this game of repatriation. that sounds patriotic, right? it's tax amnesty. we tried it in 2004. a law was passed that allowed companies to bring back their profits. they brought back over $300 billion in profits at a 5% tax rate. 35% down to 5%. now, most companies aren't paying 35%, but be that as it may. the companies promised they would bring that money back and create jobs. virtually no jobs completed that in 200 # and the money went to stock repurchasing and dividend

payments to shareholders. everybody knows it's a bust and if people try to promote it again -- >> it created incentive, right? it happened once and so they say if we start putting up the pressure again, we're hearing the same call. there are democrats wanting this, too, these are not just conservatives trying to create business. >> and in terms of what benefits will the american public get if these dlaz do come back to the united states, that's actually my big concern. are these companies promised to bring them back? the biggest with question, i hear it from the republican party. we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. no one has it at 35%. i know the argument there

against that is sort of, well, how many are actually paying 35%. functionallily, it's not 35%. but it's so clear -- in 2007, we looked at apple's taxes frks and apple at that point claimed they were paying 20 and what they're paying the state and local governments. >> in their actual -- i saw something, too, their actual effective rate when you account for all the overseas money comes down to 12 or 14% or something like that. but matt, i think you had a slightly different take, though, on what apple should be taxed and what lake -- if you think these companies are going to bring the money back, that's a

fair bring. they pay these out to shareholders. but when you pay your shareholders, the shareholders themselves are taxed. dividend from capitals and games is to look at those investors and to say, you know, we're taxing people. the people can't relocate themselves to ireland on paper. if you live in the is, we're subject to the ir. the corporate company stop, it's quite complicated. there is a reason why companies are all paying for they tircht rates. we do want kpds to be able to make profits and then we had a manufacturing company like them.

politicians always want want odd viz orz. should. capital pm has only gone down over time, it hasn't exactly gone up. >> it just went up this year. >> not significantly. i think that that question is just as volatile and just as controversial as trying to reform the corporate tax code. >> but that also gets to -- what matt klein wrote something about this week, too, which was something like, let's not be having this debate about the corporate tax rate. that's a broken system. let's talk about raising the capital gains tax, let's talk about raising high income tax rates. >> how much would you have. are we talking sky hate rates or? that's. well, senate democrats, the

government roost they sent. . there's lots of ways, the republicans in particular, they say you can't raise taxes on wealthy folks. what matt was just talking about, you could put the capital gains tax rate and the dividends tax rate back to what's called ordinary income, which is the rate you're paying your taxes at. now it's at 20%. it just went up from 15% to 20% in a tax bill to pass at the end of the of the year. you could put it back in a? the ordinary rate it would probably raids your right have. those folks are the ones who can afford to pay more in taxes. i don't think we should let the corporations off the hook.

they have not contributed a dime toward deficit reduction at this point in time. but average americans have had to contribute. the payroll tax went back up. but more importantly, programs are being cut across the board. remember the faa and food safety and head start, everybody is paying to help reduce the deficit. corporations haven't paid a dime and it's time they do. after this. ,

and basil was about to say. >> you were talking about tax breaks earlier, but it seems like with the combination of tax breaks and the taxes that corporations do pay, it's almost revenue neutral. and with respect to the effective tax rate, since the 1960s we've gone from 42% down to about 17%. if we're going to reform this to tax shareholders, my concern is that moves to the payroll tax, that moves to income tax, and everything will have to go up significantly to be able to

cover the shortfall. i'm concerned that if we do any kind of reform that significantly minimizes corporate taxation or completely eliminates it that it's still going to come out of the pocket of the average person in a much more deleterious way. >> john mccain was sort of making that point this week, that anything we are losing in terms of companies hiding out overseas and avoiding taxes, anything we're losing someone else is paying for. it was kind of interesting to hear john mccain. i know thf i know thfls the week he revolted against the republican party. >> samsung is a south korean company. their main competitors in computer manufacturing are from taiwan and china. the multi-national companies, they really are multi-national and they're competing across

nations of t nations. one of the reasons the apple was interesting is because they were an american company. you see a company domiciled in the u.s. and not paying taxes on its foreign profits, people get concerned. but they're also glad those profits belong to an american company. >> you talk about the pride of the senators in a company like apple. it was on full display this week. take a look at this. >> i love apple. i'm apple, i harassed my husband until he converted to a mac book. >> this brutal intellectual property which everybody that i know of applauds. >> what i really want to ask is why the hell i have to keep updating the apps on my iphone all the time. >> i like the yellow protector

that carl levin has on his iphone. but this is the same committee that in one breath is just horribly outraged at hiding the profits and then the next moment it's, love your products of the lo , love your company. >> whether it be someone on the street or someone in the senate, are they going to change their decision-making process because of this. frankly, i don't care that we're going to see this happens. and if you're not going to boycott a company over the way it treats, you're going to boycott the fact that they pay less in taxes? it's something every business tries to do. i think it will be a long time before you see sort of the tide of sentiment turn around. >> the tax issue is a relatively

opaque issue. it's very hard to explain, folks. but this lesson from apple really, i think, illustrated the problem. a great company that has a very good corporate coupulture is do something that may not be illegal but definitely is against the spirit of law. i hope this is a wake-up call for american consumers who -- as i understand, you're paying -- when apple doesn't pay, it means you pay more. >> mall business owner, you're a sole proprietorship. he's paying more in taxes because other small guys on main street. there is a debate which is grullying on several. it may not happen this year because there are lots of competing organizations and businesses. the public has to get engaged in this battle. we've got to make corporations

pay more. >> that's something that the with the himself had to say about that. so you can capture your receipts, and manage them online with jot, the latest app from ink. so you can spend less time doing paperwork. and more time doing paperwork. ink from chase. so you can.

♪ the middle of this special moment and i need to run off to the bathroom. ♪ i'm fed up with always having to put my bladder's needs ahead of my daughter. ♪ so today, i'm finally talking to my doctor about overactive bladder symptoms. [ female announcer ] know that gotta go feeling? ask your doctor about prescription toviaz.

one toviaz pill a day significantly reduces sudden urges and accidents, for 24 hours. if you have certain stomach problems or glaucoma, or can not empty your bladder, you should not take toviaz. get emergency medical help right away if your face, lips, throat or tongue swells. toviaz can cause blurred vision, dizziness, drowsiness and decreased sweating. do not drive, operate machinery or do unsafe tasks until you know how toviaz affects you. the most common side effects are dry mouth and constipation. talk to your doctor about toviaz.

we were just getting into the broader push for corporate tax reform and it's something the president talked about before. this is a couple years ago but him sort of laying out his principles on that. >> over the years, a parade of lobbyists has rigged the tax code to benefit particular companies and industries. those were the accountants or lawyers to work the system can end up paying no taxes at all. but all the rest are hit with one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. that makes no sense, and it has to change. so tonight i'm asking democrats and republicans to simplify the system. get rid of the loopholes. level the playing field. and use the savings to lower the corporate tax rate for the first time in 25 years without adding to our deficit. >> he's laying out basic broad

perimeters of a compromise there for republicans, like i'll get you the lower corporate tax rate but we have to jump through loopholes. feasibly, is there a way -- you look at this money that responses. can they say, hey, we're charging taxes. >> at some point you might actually scare companies from operating in the united states, but there is clearly a large margin at which you can get more money out of apple and apple is going to stay in california and stay happy. >> we always hear that, scaring them away. what is the breaking point? they have billions of dollars overseas they're sort of afraid to bring back here because of taxes. where wr is that balance?

>> a lot of this is corporate spin. u.s. corporations, their effectieffec actually lower than these tax havens, but is that where we want to go? if you look at comparison for the oecd companies, those companies we compete against, the u.s. is on the bottom in terms of overall taxes. when you add up federal taxes, state and local taxes. this is simply they want to maximize their profits, they want to maximize what they can keep and give to their sharehe holders and they don't want to submit to the and that that needs to change. >> thank you for pointing out that i'm a small business owner. i think i'll take my talents to jamaica. i don't feel bad for apple,

they're sitting on $100 billion in cash. they can afford to pay more. >> the bottom line is that -- the question for the economy is, is this money going to help toward growth? are they being invested back in the economy. now that e and o balance sheets right now. how to solve the disconnect how -- business companies were doing it before me. and where the average person is sort of feeling the improvement in economy, and taets going to be the real question of the economy. >> you were saying earlier about traction. i think maybe the viactr or, because they focus on the company that the standards are there and they are important. one of the things not discussed

as much is basically how do u.s. companies feel about person workers and the fact that american workers aren't up to the task, aren't as thrilled and don't have the same work ethic as some of these foreign workers. and i think that is missing from some of the argument. i want to hear the senators get into that a little more as well. >> in apple, too, one of the reasons apple does so much in china, it's probably because it's a supply chain. it's so much more efficient and things are happening in china that just can't happen in the united states. but it is interesting, too, when you look at apple as -- we think of it as sort of the quintessential american. you think about the big hourhouses and you look at what they employed versus and it's a fraction of what the big auto companies used to be. this is now the big american company, right? >> again, irick, what you're

pauking about. is there something. that's a debate going on now. the economy simply demand that we went through a big recession, people there is a mismatch between the skills that our workers have and that the demand the companies are looking for. >> i'm sorry. i think about that factory in china where apple had to redo their screens and the -- i guess the manager of the factory roused workers who were in the dormitory, by the way. like an old factory town to go ahead and redo these new phones. there is that disconnect. i can't imagine we're going back about that i. >> my thanks to michael jr., matt iglesias and from the "washington post." thanks for getting up. my thoughts on memorial day after this. [ agent smith ] i've found software that intrigues me.

it appears it's an agent of good. ♪ [ agent smith ] ge software connects patients to nurses to the right machines while dramatically reducing waiting time. [ telephone ringing ] now a waiting room is just a room. [ static warbles ] [ dog barking ] ♪ [ female announcer ] life is full of little tests, but your basic paper towel can handle them. especially if that towel is bounty basic. the towel that's 50% stronger. in this lab demo even just one select-a-size sheet of bounty basic is stronger than one full sheet of the leading bargain brand. everyday life? bring it with bounty basic. the strong, but affordable picker-upper.

lenl dairy political commentator

norm orn steinjoining us next weekend. in just a moment melissa harris-perry. on today's mhp. me. i'm joining melissa as she dives in the litmus test on the crucial swipg state of virginia. they're -- that and the name game. who are the members of congress voting to take food off the table of hungry americans. that's melissa harris-perry coming up next. first, a few thoughts on memorial day. on march 26, 2005, landmine exploded in kabul, afghan san killing army master sergeant michael heester. two of his fellow national guardsmen. he was deployed in afghanistan since to 04. he was weeks away from returning home on leave to his wife and

two children in indiana where he was a firefighter for over 13 years. he was 33 years old when he died. today his sister michelle markham remembers him as an honest and forthright man. he didn't just say he believed in something. he showed it. always looking out for the underdog. she wrote in a blog post for the tragedy assistance programs for survivors attacked. 24/p support for those who lost a loved one in the military. she writes, i remember well when memorial day was all about a three-day weekend which would propel us interest the summer. it meant produce stands would pop up along county roads and plastic flower vendors would peddle their bouquets reminding those to pay respects at the nearby cemetery. it meant that school days were over. life was meant to be fun. she said it fills her with a sense of renewal. as the country pauses to remember her brother and those

who made the ultimate sacrifice. for one day, the whole nation remembers our fallen. for one day, they remember our loved ones. for one day, they remember my brother. they mourn with me. yes, she continues, i know it's not really the whole nation doing this. pretty certain it's a minuscule percentage of the population. but i sometimes prefer blind optimism to disappointing reality. tomorrow is the ninth memorial day since michael easter died. as michelle and her family have done for years, they will visit his gravesite. tomorrow is a day to remember michael and all of the men and women who died in combat. as michelle writes, time passes whether we want it to or not. remember the love, celebrate the life, share the journey. how fitting that the root word of memorial is memory. happy memory day, everyone. [ male announcer ] it's simple physics...

a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain and inflammation. plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function so moving is easier. celebrex can be taken with or without food. and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen, naproxen and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning. they all may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death. this chance increases if you have heart disease or risk factors such as high blood pressure or when nsaids are taken for long periods.

nsaids, like celebrex, increase the chance of serious skin or allergic reactions or stomach and intestine problems, such as bleeding and ulcers, which can occur without warning and may cause death. patients also taking aspirin and the elderly are at increased risk for stomach bleeding and ulcers. don't take celebrex if you have bleeding in the stomach or intestine, or had an asthma attack, hives, other allergies to aspirin, nsaids or sulfonamides. get help right away if you have swelling of the face or throat, or trouble breathing. tell your doctor your medical history. and find an arthritis treatment for you. visit celebrex.com and ask your doctor about celebrex. for a body in motion. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality.

at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

this morning my question, why do some members of congress want dhoirn go hungry? plus, the pennsylvania governor who can't find a single latino in the keystone state. and students rallying to save their schools. but first, the gop in virginia is offering a slate of nothing less than right wing nut jobs. good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. after looking to president obama for the second time last year, the republican party was inspired to do a little soul searching. the grand old party took a long hard look in the mirror and realized perhaps it was time to get a little work done. smooth out some of the bumps and