workweek. knowing payday is two days away. only four days to get to update my facebook instead of the usual five. best part is being a day closer to the weekend showdown between >> this weekend, yankees stadium, i'll be there saturday night. i'll be up in the nosebleeds when joe and willie are getting table service. maybe they'll let me come visit them. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ >> what do you think of your party? of the republicans today? >> i think they ought to put a sign on the national committee doors that says closed for repairs. until new year's day next year. >> you described the gop of your generation as eisenhower republicans, moderate republicans. could people like bob dole,

ronald reagan, could you make it in today's republican party? >> i doubt it and reagan wouldn't have made it. >> okay, bob dole giving his point of view about the state of the republican party or lack thereof. we'll have more on that coming up. good morning, everyone. it is tuesday, may 28th. why did you have that funny? they just seemed a little lost. >> i'm not -- i'm not arguing with you. >> okay. it is 6:00 in the morning, john heilemann and i haven't introduced you and you're mocking me? >> i'm not mocking you. i thought you were describing the republican party as having no state whatsoever. i thought that was devastating. >> is it may 28th? >> it is may 28th. >> oh, my god. it's only may 28th. >> with us onset we have john heilemann, director of the earth institute at columbia university dr. john sachs. it's good to have you all onboard this morning.

even you, heilemann. did you see joe was on the best dressed list? and willie. you're so best dressed. i don't get joe, though. he's dressing right now. and i don't think it's best dressing. >> who's best dressed was that? this is the man who invented the morning fleece, right? and he's right now putting his pants and shirt on and i'm sure his tie will be on backwards. >> when you see him in the off hours, joe can put it together. >> really? >> he's got the fleece and the frayed polo shirt from pensacola. >> you ask lewis how he steamed a pair of pants. >> not sure i want to hear this. >> it was all bad in the back of a car. i don't really get it, but we can maybe have "vanity fair" on to discuss. you know what i think the list is? only guys in news.

not the best dressed guys in news, only guys in news. they named everybody. >> it's well known "vanity fair" has a pervasive alcohol dependency problem. >> true. >> i don't know what you're -- >> they're all drunk over there. >> okay. anyhow, we'll take a closer look at the list coming up. we'll ask joe about it. >> good weekend, mika? memorial day? >> i saw "kinky boots." it is the best broadway show i've seen in years. has anyone seen it? >> no. >> you have to see this. cyndi lauper did the music. this cast is one of the greatest casts on broadway in a generation. they are fantastic. every single person is there because they should be there. it is just -- i had my family there and everyone was in hysteri hysterics. >> oh, my. >> this is when jordan roth came on the show. remember that? that was fun. but the show was much better,

trust me. best dressed, huh? >> there's one of america's best dressed men. >> i was busy getting -- >> yeah. mika says it's the best show in a generation. she hasn't been to a broadway show in a generation. >> you have food. >> of course i have food on it. the readers like that. >> the readers. >> the readers like that. they're voting for this "vanity fair." >> oh. >> every guy in news because they can't find anybody so you ended up on it. >> i beat anderson cooper. if you're anderson cooper and you look that good and that put together, what do you think about the readers from this morning i wear the same sweater from september through july. >> i understand anthony mason. >> mas can dress. >> they all can dress. >> yeah and like -- really? >> just that little wave your doing there, joe. >> you know what it is, i know you're not interested in taking

a picture of me, it's about mika. you're standing next to mika and hey -- and nobody wants -- >> no, they wanted to see you. >> well, you keep a distance where you can be cropped out so it's just mika. >> exactly. i am painfully aware when i go out and people start taking pictures, dr. sachs, i don't need to know they don't want my picture. they want mika's picture. >> it's a good bet. >> and you know, it's kind of like sort of my -- you've got to know how to play these things. it's kind of pr because if you go out and, hey, look, you're going to embarrass yourself because nobody wants your picture, okay. it's kind of like pr, speaking of pr, if you're going to do, pr, mika. >> yeah. >> you've got to do it like our friends at rutgers. >> right. just wipe the slate clean. screaming and yelling and saying horrible things, horrible things. >> too rough around the edges. >> a lot of people say let's

bring in a woman -- >> a mom. maybe someone soft and sweet. >> and things are going bad. >> right. >> she'll know what to say. >> she'll have a seat. >> warm touch. >> it'll be like the oracle, you know, in the matrix. some cookies. right, willie? >> yes. >> that's what's happened at rutgers. >> thank god they turned the page. >> how did you go matrix on that one? >> it's good for the school. >> right. you're a jersey boy. >> you got rid of mike rice. everybody remembers the video. >> too tough on the kids. >> baseball player, you're no good. >> so they bring in julie herman, the athletic director. highly regarded. >> a woman's touch. >> a woman's touch. >> but now there's more trouble. >> what? >> two months a of this video surfaced of mike rice, the basketball coach pushing, shoving, rice was eventually

fired by the university, athletic director resigned. they replaced with julie herman, an assistant a.d. at louisville. now herman facing her own allegations of abuse. >> what? >> the newark "star ledger" is reporting a group of female volleyball players at the university of tennessee are alleging she verbally abused them when she was the coach of the team in 1996. >> she couldn't have said anything half as bad. like this guy they got rid of called the players nit wits and losers. >> in a letter written by the 15 members of that tennessee volleyball team from 1996 -- >> okay. -- >> they claim she called they will, quote, forgive the language here, whores, alcoholics and learning disabled. those are quotes from the letters of the players. >> did she call them separately? or is that one sentence? if it's one sentence, the

grammar is really bad. >> not focused on the grammar here, john. other allegations, including yanking players by their jerseys, forcing them to wear workout clothes inside-out to a restaurant after a loss. asking a player if she was going to lose the game for the team and lightly hitting her in the stomach with the back of her hand. a discrimination lawsuit -- eventually fired her. >> they've got that on video. >> she's invited. this lady goes, i got invite my boss to the wedding and her husband's like don't do that. i've got to do it. don't do it. and so they're in there and they've got the wedding video and from what i understand because, you know, i look at a lot of these things on the weekend, right? videos, yes, i love them. and in this one, she goes up to the lady who just got married, the kids from the orphanage love it. and she goes, don't get pregnant. i sure would hate for things to

go badly for you at the office? here's a video i was watching saturday night viewing. >> i'm very proud of you. i'm very excited about it. hope it's good tonight you've been waiting for a while. hope it's not too good because you'll be back in february and see any surprises in the office and all, and hard to have a baby in there. i wouldn't mind it so much. anyway, have a great honeymoon, love you. hope it went well, see you soon. >> well -- >> she's joking around. >> the woman whose wedding that was was later fired but herman says she was fired for performance not because she got pregnant. all of this came out because of the "star ledger," the "star ledger" got that video. rutgers president says he stands by julie hermann. >> of course they do. because that's what they do at

rutgers for 4 1/2 days. we're going to talk about that lady. that's very fascinating. we're going to have a reporter on. isn't that exciting? >> yes. >> we have a lot of news to do. >> yes, we do. that was terrible. thank you, willie, we'll look into that with the reporter for the "star ledger" coming up. with months to go before open enrollment begins for obamacare, there's good news for the white house coming out of california. the state has revealed the prices for the health care plan under the affordable care act and the rates are lower than previously expected. however, the president's signature piece of legislation still faces an uphill battle when it comes to winning over voters. a new cnn poll finds 54% of americans are opposed to the law. that number is relatively unchanged since the bill was signed into law three years ago. 35% oppose the law because it is too liberal while 16% say it's not liberal enough. meanwhile, if you already have insurance through your employer, you may still feel the effects of obamacare.

the "new york times" reports many companies are looking to avoid the so-called cadillac tax which penalizes companies that offer high-end health care plans to the employees. some employers looking to cut back on costs, meaning some of the more generous health care perks you enjoyed may be a thing of the past. the burden of making sure the affordable care act has a smooth rollout falls on the shoulders of secretary health and human services kathleen sebelius. the hill says several democrats are already concerned over sebelius' handling of the bill since it became a law three years ago. acknowledging any missteps could tip the scales of the 2013 midterm elections in favor of the gop. >> john heilemann, i'm sure you're hearing it all the time. i heard it, max baucus came in, talked to us before he retired. said there was the number one concern next year, implementation of obama care. they don't think they're up to it. they think the law of unintended

consequences is going to blow up in the democrats' face. what do you think? >> well, i think it's absolutely obviously a political concern for democrats. because this law has not -- almost, most of the provisions have not gone into effect. so most people don't understand what it is and we still don't know what the economic consequences are going to be. there's the level of uncertainty still hangs over it and the politics of it were miserable for the administration throughout its passage. until people start to feel in a significant way the benefits of the law, whatever benefits those are, the political support for it is going to remain tenuous. and so in this period of transition into the law, it remains politically vulnerable. >> it is interesting that 16%, willie, actually wanted to be more liberal. you look at those numbers. there are a lot of times during the vietnam war where a majority of people in america disapproved of the handling of vietnam and it was america's most unpopular war. well, a big chunk of those people wanted us to be more

aggressive, more engaged in vietnam. you've got the opposite case here. >> it's interesting if you look at that number 54% oppose the affordable care act according to the cnn poll. i wonder how much people understand to begin with about obama care. if you ask anybody in this room what are the particulars of obama care, i'd be shocked if anyone could tell you exactly what it means next year. >> no, absolutely. the difference between this and, say, the prescription drug benefit under medicare that was passed under bush is everybody basically understood, all seniors did that you can sign up with an insurance company and get drug coverage. and when you look back on that, there was a lot more money appropriated by congress to implement a much more simple proposal than obama care. and i think the way they organized obama care, the president and this plan are at the mercy of the states. and where you have governors who

really want to implement it, california's a good case, colorado, oregon, washington, my hunch is the implementation is going to go well. but in states where republican governors are very hostile to it, it may not go very well. and yet the president's going to be on the hook for that. so it's going to be complicated. >> it is going to be complicated. it's also going to get really complicated. stories coming out in the "new york times" that i don't really -- i'm having a hard time getting my arms around as far as intel, political intel. we're going to talk about that in one minute. >> political intelligence firms. that was in the washington post yesterday. >> where the white house preps hedge funds on certain items. we're going to talk about that in one minute. first, some news over the weekend that -- >> yes. >> i don't know if mike murphy was happy about. the republican strategist. >> he's fine with it. according to "politico," mike murphy was the man behind several pro gun reform ads

produced for michael bloomberg's gun group. murphy reportedly worked on spots defending republican senator pat toomey and this ad which is critical of democrat mark prior. >> when my dear, innocent friend was shot to death, i didn't blame guns, i blamed the system that makes it so terribly easy for criminals or dangerous mentally ill to buy guns. that's why i was disappointed that mark prior voted against comprehensive background checks. on that vote, he let us down. tell mark pryor to take another look at background checks because we're tired of being disappointed. >> murphy defended his role in the ads saying, i'm proud to support comprehensive background checks just like the nra did in '99. >> mike murphy, obviously, has been a guy that has supported candidates that win.

and he's won some races. and i suspect that it's going to be people like mike murphy that are going to help us as a republican party get the middle of america back again. but, still, he's going to be hounded for the rest of his political life by extreme members of the nra. extreme members of the nra. >> and mike murphy has never been a strategist who has worked for -- he's not someone who is very associated with far right candidates. and he's someone who has acknowledged publicly he doesn't understand some of the dynamics of the far right in its current incarnation. he's not a tea party guy. i think this actually is i think probably the badge of honor. it's the kind of thing he's done a lot of. this kind of middle of the road republicanism over the course of his career. >> yeah, and also, there's always outside of new york the connection with michael bloomberg. >> right. >> such a terrible thing for republicans, supposedly. i think mike murphy is just fine

with that association. >> yeah, he's never shied away from standing up for what he believes in and probably won't be popular with a lot of people. this folds in a little bit with the clip we played with bob dole talking about the state of the republican party about how it swung right to a large extent and he's bob dole himself said he's not sure he would be electable or very popular candidate in the state of kansas today. >> i remember when i was fighting -- not fighting but reading the things that people were saying on twitter during the background check battle. people saying i was a left winger and -- ronald reagan supported this and the brady bill and this and, well, reagan was a rhino. >> really? >> the guy that created the modern republican party is not conservative enough. according to these howlers, as he said, on the far right, they are such a minority. sure, you know, 12 of them go out and they vote in these, you know, congressional primary races.

never enough to win presidential races, so the party has to decide do you ever want to be in the white house again or not. it's very simple. i like winning, i'm different, i am a rhino in that respect. my dear howling friends, i like to win. in fact, i do win. that's just what i do. when i -- i go out, say how do you get -- i don't know if you knew this or not, the idea in elections is to get more votes than the other side. >> i think there are some people who don't know that at this point. >> i know there are some people that don't know that. did you see this "washington post" story? >> i'd love to get it in before the break. it's so good. >> what is the obama administration doing here? >> i don't know. it raises some questions. i'm not sure what else could have been happening at these meetings. >> this is bizarre stuff. >> in washington, the race for political intelligence they're calling it is heating up. as investors are looking to cash in. the "washington post" is reporting there's a rise of

consultants who specialize in providing government information to wall street and in some instances, directly from the white house. these are political intelligence firms they're called. "the post" singles out -- >> insider information basically. >> the post singles out officials who are allegedly providing information to investors related to the president's decisions on health care related issues. but the article goes on to mention, there are similar interests from several other industries including defense, agriculture and energy. lawmakers and federal investigators are looking into whether or not investors are gaining access to confidential information. and if so, that information is being used on the markets and tracking the markets to find out if there's a tie. >> they're giving them insider information. i'm not -- not -- >> i don't think that's -- >> not saying this is -- >> can't say that. >> -- classical legal sense of the word, but that's what they're doing. this article talks about

bringing in hedge fund people and corporate types to say, hey, this is how we're going to implement this. and they pay for these services to get this access so they can go back and make investments. >> you think the white house would be a little bit more careful than doing briefings for a hedge fund, or for these firms that are being paid by the hedge funds to get one day advance information or the political briefings. it's all another enormous waste of human time, energy resources to game the system. it's not different from anything else. >> is it not ethical? >> well, i think it's stupid, first of all, for the white house to be playing this game. >> does it concern you, though? does this line up with everything else you've talked about about washington being bought and paid for by hedge fund types? wall street? by lobbyists? >> well, i think it confirms this hedge fund industry, the way it's completely unregulated, the way it goes for insider

information. the number of criminal suits against it, the reckless gambling it provokes. this is a big deal. >> explain this if you will, it's your paper, and you know everything about everything. >> yeah, take responsibility. >> absolutely, joe. >> i'm going to be asking you about the blondie cartoon next. what's going on in this article? what's the story at the white house? >> well, my sense -- and i didn't write this article, i should say for your viewers, but my sense is what's happening in washington now is that every single thing somebody does someone has figured out how to sell it for a lot of money to someone else. and i can't tell from this story whether people learned anything at these briefings that they wouldn't learn watching your show. and there are a lot of times when people go to meetings of this sort, not because they really want to learn something, but because they want to be able

to say afterward they had access to somebody or they got the inside scoop whether it can help them or not. having said that, i find that public officials, especially in the democratic white house are under pressure both ways. on the one hand, i agree with jeffrey sachs, this whole thing is unseemly to me. and on the other hand, how many times has obama been accused of not reaching out to business, not spending time with wall street people. i think they're going to get hit either way. personally, i'd rather him turn meetings like this down. >> exactly. >> yeah. turn them down. willie, we've got inside information we want to pass along too. going to otb, seventh race, who is going to win? what dog is it? >> look at the eighth puppy. >> all right. >> number eight in the seventh. >> number eight. >> heilemann? that's like -- >> i'm coming back.

this story, there's -- >> no, i was talking about -- >> oh, the puppies, whatever dog willie's betting. >> you have three seconds to say something important. >> i just, you know, industry trade associations and government affairs groups take meetings at the white house all the time. >> yeah, they turn out badly. >> that may be true. but it is the case that the administration talks to business. business wants to know what the administration's doing. the idea that there are specialty firms doing this for hedge funds. you may not like in general there's that kind of inner play. >> should a hedge fund manager be able to go to the white house the day before something breaks. the day before everybody else knows what's going on, they have access to the white house. >> not if there's market-moving information about it. but we all assume that pharmaceutical companies talk about it. the question is what the nature of the information is. coming up next. we've got a lot going on.

david axelrod will be here. i'm sure, willie, david axelrod is making tons of cash. he walks out of the white house now, and he's like richie rich. >> i booked him at 9:00 last night. please don't ruin the work i've done. >> he takes it out to his ford f-150 and dumps it in the back. >> stop. all right. later, drone strikes are not just for the united states anymore, we'll tell you how the drone business is expanding to militaries across the world and why it's making u.s. leaders nervous. >> who would've seen this coming? and up next, the top stories in the "politico" playbook. good morning, east coast, we saved ourselves a memorial day weekend with that beautiful day yesterday. but all the attention in the middle of the country, more possible tornadoes and a lot of flooding too and major rivers, even the mississippi river. this morning, the worst weather

in the country by far rolling through the state of missouri now into illinois and you're getting soaked from davenport to peoria, springfield the rain is beginning. spreading into chicago at the peak of your morning rush hour. not going to be pretty in the windy city as we go throughout that peak driving time. as far as today goes, severe weather, if you live in detroit, toledo, cleveland, chicago, kansas city, just st. louis, northwards up to the quad cities. back down through most all of kansas, western oklahoma and western texas, you have a chance of severe storms today, damaging wind and hail will be widespread. only a few tornadoes, there's a better shot of more tornadoes, maybe a few strong tornadoes wednesday afternoon and evening. that'll be in areas of nebraska, kansas, once again in oklahoma and west texas. and we'll continue that right through thursday. and if you're on the east coast, get ready. hope that ac is working. you went from snowy weather in the northeast and cold conditions on saturday to a heat wave. look at washington, d.c.

high temperature 90 degrees all the way out through saturday. that heat will eventually arrive in the areas like new york city. you're watching "morning joe" on this tuesday. memorial day's here and we're talking with mayreen about the walmart low price guarantee backed by ad match. breyers, vanilla? it's for the kids. sure it is! okay, that price? walmart will match it at the register. i didn't know that. oh, wow! that's the walmart low price guarantee! save time and money this memorial day. bring in ads from your local stores and see for yourself. for aveeno® positively radiant face moisturizer. [ female announcer ] aveeno® with soy helps reduce the look of brown spots in 4 weeks. for healthy radiant skin. aveeno®. naturally beautiful results. (girl) w(guy) dive shop.y? (girl) diving lessons. (guy) we should totally do that.

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possessing of a destructive device. police were tipped off to his plan to blow up his high school by a t911 call and found six bombs as well as detailed plans of how to kill. the kids at the school, mika, it was actually was patterned after columbine. he had information on those attacks too. let's go to the "huffington post," general electric announce nay plan to invest billions of dollars into fracking and will open a new lab in oklahoma. ge believes it will improve upon fracking methods, making the process safer for the environment. >> the revolution is underway, it's going to be massive over the next decade. ge, obviously, reading the stars and moving quickly in that direction. from "the daily beast," senator john mccain has become the highest ranking member of the u.s. government to appear in syria. secretly visiting for several hours. met with leaders of the free

syrian army and other leaders. they asked for more american assistance including heavy weapons, air strikes and no-fly zone while he sneaked over the border and made that visit on memorial day. and from our parade of papers, "the baltimore sun," a fire broke out on the third deck of the royal caribbean ship grandeur of the seas. seriously? >> no. >> took crews about two hours to put out the flames. look at that. the next cruise on the ship was canceled as the ntsb and coast guard investigate the fire. no one onboard was hurt. i'm sorry, it doesn't make sense to me, cruises, can i be mean? i don't mean to be. i've been on one i didn't get it. everyone ate a lot. >> speaking of eating a lot, the "new york post" has a story on this guy, $156,000 salary, i think. >> wow. oh my gosh. >> he eats a lot. there are pictures inside too. >> what is he doing? >> and sleeps a lot. >> what is he doing in the

pictures? >> well, it's three or four action shots, they're going to put him on big gulps and you can collect all four right here. right there. >> he is sleeping in every picture. >> yeah. so anyway. there you go. that looks like a heck of a job. and the new york mets come back and beat the yankees last night. let's go right now to willie geist and "politico." >> let's get a look at the "politico" playbook with jim vandehei. >> good morning, willie. >> good morning. your lead screening on the website is about john boehner. you take us behind the curtain and tell us why the speaker's power in congress may be shrinking. how is his power different than it was two years ago? >> it's a lot different. we had an extensive interview with him late last week. and it's clear those days of him trying to work with the president on a grand bargain are

over. and those days of him trying to lead his conference by saying, hey, this is the right thing to do. he's saying now i have to listen to the will of my conservative caucus and that means i'm going to sit back, wait to see what they want to do on issues like taxes and spending. and most importantly, what they want to do on immigration. everyone thinks immigration's going to happen in this town. i keep cautioning them, like we did on gun control to really pay attention to this conservative caucus on the house side that boehner has to run. he says the bill has no chance of getting a majority of votes. and therefore would never get to the house floor. it needs to be changed a lot. and he's saying, listen, i'm going to listen to what my members want to do. and what they're hearing, they don't like the pathway to citizenship unless there are severe triggers included -- to make sure there's enforcement of the borders. and they because of these scandals, nobody -- and controversies surrounding the white house, they say their members trust -- their trust in government is fading more and

more. it'll make it harder for them to believe those triggers will happen. >> he says you're missing my style. i don't have to be out there beating the drum every day. it doesn't need the heavy hand of the speaker all over everything. was he resistant to the idea he stepped back a little bit? >> what he would say is i'm dealing -- i'm a reality-based speaker. and i think joe would understand this. back in the day, it was great to be a leader because you had earmarks to hand out. members cared what congressional committees they were on. they wanted your endorsement, help in your elections. now the moderate conservative doesn't want any of that. they don't like earmarks. they don't want the endorsement. they don't want to be seen sometimes with their leaders because the rank and file back home doesn't like the republican leadership. it's hard to be a leader today compared to ten or 15 years ago. and the thing that boehner's trying to debate is at what point does he step in and try to lead a conference that doesn't necessarily want to be led.

all of this got kicked up a couple of weeks ago. and so there's been a lot of debate about his authority ever since. >> and speaker boehner in the interview you talked about how difficult it is now to lead from top down as he found trying to get a bargain together with the white house. jim vandehei, right at the top of politico.com. john boehner's shrinking power. coming up, rutgers university stands behind julie hermann despite the allegations we told you about earlier that she abused former players of tennessee while she was the volleyball coach there. we'll talk to the reporter at the newark star ledger who broke this story next. more "morning joe" when we come back.

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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us on the set, craig wolf, one of the reporters who broke the story of athletic director julie hermann's mixed past at tennessee. we talked about some of the details at the top of the show. 15 players from the '96/'97 volleyball team put this letter

together accusing her of calling them names, some physical abuse, i guess. >> and rough names, by the way. >> is there any evidence outside of this letter that other players from her past have accused her of abuse? or is it just this one team that we're talking about? >> no, my article talks about players from past teams, past -- before the 1996 team that also, you know, ran into difficulties with her. >> verbally and physically abusive? >> it was really verbally and emotional and mental abuse is what the players are saying. >> what are they saying? >> things like forcing players to come to practice while running a fever. you know, forcing them to do push-ups during games in front of their families as punishment.

depriving them of food and showers after losses. but it's not just that that they're talking about, but as they regard as constant screaming and humiliation of them. >> that sounds familiar. >> how do they not know about this? >> that's the real question. given what they'd just left behind, you think they'd be diligent beyond diligent combing through her past? did they not know she had a bit of a reputation? yesterday she herself said, yes, i was an intense coach. i was not an abusive coach, but an intense coach. did rutgers not look deep enough into her past? >> they did not make the phone calls that i did. and when i say that, i'm not trying to suggest that what i did was an act of genius by any stretch. i picked up the phone and doing basic reporting 101, i called former players and that's how i

discovered it. >> that would be called like checking references or looking into the person to make sure it's the person you want to hire. >> yeah, correct, they did not look past her job at louisville. >> so you were -- what you were just like hanging out and you could either go easter egg hunting with the family or say, hey, i'm going to check on this athletic director. that didn't happen. did you get a tip? >> in today's story that i wrote today, the co-chair of the search committee said three days before the hiring was announced, she went on google and did page searches and did not find tennessee. so that was her kind of last-minute check. >> were you tipped off, though, is what i'm asking? >> absolutely not. >> you decided i'm going to check out her references? >> absolutely, yeah. >> craig, in your reporting, you mentioned forcing players to do

push-ups during games in front of crowds or parents. >> yeah, in front of their parents. >> did you uncover any parents who complained about her behavior during various times? >> not yet. my focus has been on players, former players. though they say their parents were -- are just astonished that rutgers picked this person. and it's that, by the way, which really spurred these women on. these women are scattered across the country. they have very full lives. they have young children, they have careers. and, you know, that this is really organic on their part. >> mike, if you look -- the question answers itself. if you look at the fact that 15 college women signed a letter that was this controversial at the time, you -- would you not assume -- would we not assume they're talking to their parents saying, hey -- i'm sure that's

next. >> you imagine what you'd think as a parent. >> oh, my gosh. >> there's also something to her response, which you report in the story. when the players present her with this letter. >> she said she doesn't remember the letter. >> she says this is their account. >> how could you not remember the letter. said they gave the letter and filed these complaints, she looks at them and says i choose not to coach you guys and walked out of the room. that's the players' account of the story. >> wow. >> do you know whether the rutgers a.d. job when it became open. was it their choice not to interview o.j. simpson or anthony weiner for the job. >> that would be the first question i'd ask. >> tomorrow's story, all right. thank you so much for being with us. amazing story, i'm sure we'll have you back. >> craig, thanks so much. coming up next, mika's must-read opinion pages. more "morning joe" in a moment.

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47 past the hour, live look at the white house on this tuesday morning. time now for the must-read opinion pages. we're going to read e.j.'s in the "washington post." i'll read a small portion of it and you can explain more. the obama riddle. he's an antiideological leader in an ideological age. a middle of the road liberal skeptical demands. a politician often disdainful of the tasks that politics ask him to perform. he wants to invite the nation to reason together with him when nearly half the country thinks his premises and theirs are utterly at odds. doing so is unlikely to get any easier. but being barack obama, he'll keep trying. e.j.?

>> well, thank you for reading that. i mean, barack obama might well identify with kermit the frog, it's just not easy being barack obama. i mean, he is crosswise to so many things in the country right now. in particular, he is presented by republicans in congress as some kind of ultra left winger when people on this show know how often people on the left have been impatient with his efforts to get grand bargains. and jim vandehei was talking about john boehner. if you -- if joe scarborough were in this particular republican caucus, he would be seen as a socialist. i mean, this is a very different time that obama has to govern in. trying to be a middle of the road liberal.

he's cast as an ultra leftist. >> i'm sure you love hearing that. >> i tend to disagree. but, just -- could i ask e.j.? >> why do you think he lets himself be passed that way. it is surprising because he is a centrist and he has allowed himself to be painted in another way. so what does that say about the politics of it? or the -- his ability to define the agenda? >> well, i think that there is a limit to his ability to define the agenda right now. it's not so much his ability to define the agenda as his ability to define the political spectrum. what you have i think is a conservative movement in america that's gone way to the right of where it used to be. as bob dole said in that interview before the show. and then a lot of times, the media goes along with this redefinition of a political spectrum so someone who is a moderate liberal.

look at his health plan. the health plan is not some big government takeover. it's more conservative than richard nixon's health plan. it's more conservative than the late john chafee. >> given the latest sort of scandals, the three different ones on whatever category you put them in from moderate to severe doesn't help this president sort of define himself and not look completely far over to the left and have enemies far on the right. >> yeah. i think, though, at the end of the day, when it comes down to strong leadership whether you're talking about president obama at the white house. you know, ronald reagan really was a conservative. he was very pragmatic. but he was a very strong leader. and he stretched those arms out and he pulled you -- you did not want to be on the outside of ronald reagan's grasp. you could say the same thing about fdr. you could say the same thing for a few years about bill clinton. it's the same thing with john

boehner. listen, yes, there are very conservative people in the republican party. the difference between this very conservative part of the republican party and past conservative parts of the republican party, whether when i was there or in '66 in the reaction to goldwater. you had strong leaders. you had strong leaders that can say, you know, john boehner is not a strong leader. he's not, i like john. but nobody when john was picked said, oh, man, he's going to be like nancy pelosi or he's going to be like newt gingrich, or he's going to be, you know, he's going to be a strong -- just not a strong enough leader to call somebody into the office into what tip o'neill would do. and this is how it works on capitol hill. you cross me, you know what, you can hold your press conferences, but i promise you, i'm not going to forget and i'm going to stay

after you. and i'm going to make sure you hold all the press conferences say i'm the worst guy in the world, but i'm going to lean in and stay on you and make your life a living and breathing hell. good luck. do you want to deal with me or go out and hold a press conference. you're going to be tweeting from home for a couple of years. i'm going to spend the next two years killing you politically. so, e.j., with all due respect, my pushback here is this, just like americans want strong leaders in the white house, members of congress even though they complain about it, they want strong leaders running these dysfunctional institutions, and when they have them, and when they have a strong leader with a vision, they follow. a lot of people didn't like nancy pelosi, but they didn't cross her because she was a strong, democratic powerful leader. >> you know, i don't disagree

you could have stronger leadership in the house, but john boehner disciplined a bunch of people at the beginning of this congress and didn't do him any good. and i think the difference between the newt gingrich conference you served in and now, there were a lot more genuinely moderate liberal republicans. people like jim sheas. it was a much more diverse caucus. >> it was. >> if newt gingrich wanted to make a move to the center, he had some room to do it. eventually the conservatives got impatient with that. john boehner has a caucus that's, i think, nothing like the one you were in. >> no, no, but he's got a majority of people there who still want to win elections. and a majority of people that can turn to a smaller group if they have a leader to follow. you can restore order in a place like that. still ahead on "morning joe," the authorized biography of margaret thatcher.

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our thanks to e.j.dionne, coming up next, there's a reason why joe is standing right now. >> my legs hurt. >> he realizes he sits too much and it's killing him, literally, we'll tell you why after. >> she has an article that if you sit down, you die. and you're sitting down. >> paul krugman -- >> i'll come to your funeral. >> i'm having a heart attack right now. >> okay. paul krugman -- obama care shock, will the health care rollout be good or bad for the president and democrats? dr. zeke emanuel joins us to talk about that. >> did you see what "the economist" said? >> sitting down, oh. >> we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] citi is over 200 years old. in that time there've been some good days.

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♪ all right. welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle. >> you've got to do it -- >> and john hoojon heilemann ar with us. eugene robinson, and in boston, former white house adviser for health policy, vice provos. >> dr. zeke emmanuel joining us. we're going to talk about obama care.

but i found this article about sitting too much. being the new smoking. >> i've heard of this. i've heard of this. >> tell me if any of this is wrong, doctor. >> all right. >> sitting at work or home for hours at a time could be cutting years off your life. it's not just trouble for our tushes, keeping your cheeks planted poisons on the rest of the body, as well. says a dr. from ohio state university. sitting is the new smoking. the doctor weighed in after researchers discovered that serial sitting slows the metabolism and increases the risk of a heart attack and stroke. slugs who roost on their rumps at least 11 hours a day increase their death risk by 40%. sitting also -- >> okay. >> wait, there's more. >> sitting also suppresses the production of a molecule which would otherwise metabolize fats. makes your butt big. >> i think that moving around and exercise is always a good thing.

>> yeah. >> and almost all of us have the experience we sit for 40 minutes and we sort of are sleepy. >> yeah. >> right. getting and moving around is really important and exercise is very important. >> sounds so simple. what you're saying, zeke, but we have a society that actually is sitting for long periods of time more and more. >> let's go to news. thank you. >> this is news. >> that's why they also develop that walking desk so you could stay active while you sit. >> so zeke's brother ari because he's crazy, ari, actually his desk, he's got a treadmill. >> i want to see this. >> while he's on the phone swearing, throwing f-bombs. he goes, i can throw f-bombs, run, type. he does it all. in defense of sitting. think about this. in defense of sitting, i mean, our founding fathers signed the declaration of independence sitting. >> yes. >> right?

>> i don't know. >> the magna carta signed, king john was sitting. >> lennon/mccartney. >> when they wrote, whether it was yesterday or tomorrow never knows, or "i want to hold your hand." >> you don't know that. >> sitting, sitting, sitting. >> that's not true. sitters of the world unite. >> she's talking about serial sitting. they're saying you shouldn't be sitting eating cereal all day. >> no. >> "usa today" headline, a lot of people talking about this. media's concerned that the white house is trying to criminalize journalism. criminalizing journalism. this story goes on, james rosen, fox, of course, "a.p." before that. it's a total mess and it's still driving. >> it ought to. because i mean the -- the -- not the intent of their actions, but the diligence of the justice department's reactions going

after a newspaper report. gathering a news story. >> can i ask you? you brought up the justice department. does anyone think the justice department should be the one investigating this or the irs? should the -- the justice department this dysfunctional, i'm dead serious. gene, let me go to you on this. should a justice department that is involved in the irs dust-up and especially this reporting dust-up, should the justice -- i mean, would we want john mitchell investigating john mitchell's justice department? >> i don't think it's john mitchell's justice department. >> i think in this area, i think it's as bad as john mitchell's justice department. when you look at what they did on fox news. >> i don't think it's as bad but i've written a column about it. i think it was bad, but not that bad. but should anybody investigate themselves, i don't think that's good practice. and the question is, you know, how do you do it.

who should be doing the investigation. i suspect, i think we know what the investigation will find, which is that this administration has been overzealous, certainly to a fault in pursuing what i considered normal journalistic activity. and in tracking down leakers they've prosecuted more than other administrations combined under the espionage act and i hope now this has all come to light and people are talking about it, i hope they get it. >> so here's what veteran journalist and long time washington reporter bob schieffer had to say about the way the obama administration has handled the press. >> it's reached the point if i want to interview anyone in the administration on camera from the lowest level worker to a white house official, i have to go through the white house press office. their chosen spokesman turns out to to have no direct connection

to the story at the moment as was the case when susan rice was sent out to explain the benghazi episode. that's what we and you the taxpayer get. and it isn't much. i'm glad the president has asked the attorney general to review whether his investigations into leaks is having a chilling effect on journalists. it shouldn't stop there. the president needs to rethink his entire communications policy top to bottom. it is hurting his credibility and shortchanging the public. and how about someone other than the attorney general whose department is so deeply involved. that makes no sense to me. >> the other side of this, we're focusing on the journalist side, which is obviously critically importa important. >> anybody who sees something wrong or unethical or bad for the country that says your boss, the government is watching you.

>> what some may call whistle blowers. the administration has been comprehensively bad on this topic. i do think that the rosen case really is a separate and egregious instance. i mean the court filings in that case are chilling. the nixon administration, past administrations have talked about the notion of trying to accuse journalists of committing crimes. none of them have done that before. >> until now. >> i believe this is the first case in which the administration has gone to court and claimed a journalist who was doing his job by receiving information from the government was committing a crime. that's a first, i think, and it is -- if you look at the documents, it is a chilling thing. >> it is really chilling and this is the sort of thing that

richard nixon would -- but john mitchell would never ever file a subpoena in federal district court trying to get information accusing a journalist of espionage. that has happened now in the obama white house. >> well, there's a specific connection, in which he would articulate, we should do this with the s.o.b., we should do that, we'd never do that, saying, yeah, right, we'll get on it. it was like listening to a crazy person who was like, okay, fine, we'll ignore it. in this one, the web they cast. if you read what they did, the reporters' parents were perhaps subject to surveillance and things like that. it's incredible to read. >> and monitoring the

journalist's comings and goings. >> and the source. >> the entire thing is disgraceful. i don't think we should in any way suggest that the comprehensiveness of the crimes of the nixon administration committed were not of a different category because it reached across -- >> right. >> you're talking about this one area. >> this is a frontier of the obama administration has crossed -- >> it's important to say, we're not comparing president obama to president nixon. but in one area, talking about criminalizing the press. they have done things that no other administration, not even the nixon administration. >> bob schieffer's right. >> it can't be eric holder. >> let's move on and zeke, this is for you, with months to go before open enrollment begins for obama care, there is good news for the white house coming out of california. the state has revealed the prices for the health care plans under the affordable care act and the rates are lower than

previously expected. however -- >> that's good news. >> yes. the president's signature piece of legislation still faces an uphill battle when it comes to winning over voters. a new cnn opinion research corporation poll finds 54% of americans are opposed to the law. that number is relatively unchanged since the bill was signed into law three years ago. 35% opposed the law because it's too liberal while 16% say it's not liberal enough. meanwhile, if you already have insurance through your employer, you may still feel the effects of obama care. the "new york times" reports many companies are looking to avoid the so-called cadillac tax which penalizes companies that offer high-end health care plans to its employees. some employers are looking to cut back on costs. meaning. some of the more generous health care perks you've enjoyed may be a thing of the past. there are changes coming. the burden of making sure the affordable care act has a smooth rollout falls on the shoulders of secretary of health and human

services kathleen sebelius, and several democrats are concerned over sebelius' handling of the bill since it became a law three years ago acknowledging any missteps could tip the scales of the 2013 midterm elections in favor of the gop and there's always been concern that people haven't understood the law. >> we like kathleen, but we are reporting, willie geist, we're reporting. it's not up to the task of facing all of the challenges that are going to explode in 2014 when this law comes. >> and the thing about it, zeke, it varies from state to state. if you can distill it down. about what obama care does and does not do, what does it mean at the beginning of next year for let's say your state where you're sitting.

>> i think it's very important to realize that about half the states are implementing their own exchanges where you'll be able to go on and shop and get insurance and about half have said they're not going to do it and leave it to the federal government and hhs. that's about the best way of thinking of it. and the states that have done it taking on the initiative like california and colorado, and maryland, they're really making very good progress they've been able to bring down rates and cheaper than people expect. they're working very hard and people that have seen their website think it's really fantastic. i think they do have a very confident team that can handle it. i think the most important thing about that cnn poll in my opinion is only a third of people, roughly, are against it for the ideological reasons that republicans support. 16% were against the bill, 17%

were against the bill because it didn't go far enough. >> that's an important thing for us to point out because we always see these numbers, but it is important, gene, i was talking about vietnam and vietnam when you had a majority of people opposing the president's handling of vietnam. whether it was johnson or nixon, there was always a large chunk, 20%, 25% who said we're not doing enough. that's the case here on the other side where, yes, a majority oppose obama care, but only about a third oppose it for conservative reasons about 15%, 20% oppose it because it doesn't go far enough. >> that's right. and we never break those figures out and we really should. i actually had a question for zeke, which is about the public relations campaign that's necessary to get people to sign up for insurance. thatst what the administration is going to be about this summer, i think, leading into the fall and congress is trying to essentially defund that will

the administration have the resources to get that message across? you know, coast to coast. >> i think you're absolutely right. it's a very important message and the republicans are trying to make it very difficult to actually get the bill implemented and get people to be aware of it. and i think the administration's task is to use every bully pulpit it has to inform people about the options. they have four months, june, july, august, september and october 1st, people will be able to sign up for insurance and get a subsidy if they're under 400% of poverty. one of the things i would emphasize is, at least initially we don't expect everyone who is uninsured to get insurance and to sign up. but for many people, this will be a very good bargain. they'll be paying 10% or 15% of the true cost and they'll get a very good insurance plan. the last thing i would say that if people want to see what it's like, they can go to the

massachusetts connector which is an exchange and see what the options are like. and you'll, i think, be very pleasantly surprised by how many choices people have, the amount of information you can get. and you can see the future already in massachusetts. where, by the way, 70% of the population is very happy with what they have. >> with romney care, right? >> and they've been able to insure up to 98%. >> he -- when i said romney care. >> he says you will. that's what he said. >> that's right. it was -- >> go ahead. >> he introduced it, again, as i've been saying for a long time, it's a republican idea that obama embraced because he thought it would be effective and it allows innovation and now you see the republicans being against it. it's a kind of very confusing world. and similarly, similarly, the states that aren't implementing their own exchanges are the republican states. another confusing element of the world. >> well, we had news yesterday,

politico reporting it the texas legislature shut down any efforts to implement obama care in texas. rick perry didn't want to do that anyway. >> and texas is a place where a quarter of the population is uninsured and they stand to gain hugely by introducing the bill and getting people insurance. >> there are a lot of republican mayors i talk to, a lot of republican hospital administrators that are very concerned about the impact. of them not getting the medicaid money. all right, hey, zeke thank you so much for being here. thank you for coming to mika's party in washington, d.c. and we look forward to seeing you in philadelphia some time soon. >> absolutely. we'll see you there. >> my parents found him amusing. >> i don't know what that means. that's better than what they find me. >> that's true. eugene, stay with us. still ahead, drones for sale, why one says the remote

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oh, 23 past the hour. >> surprise. >> i hope you were enjoying. >> very important. with us now, the moderator of "meet the press" david gregory. and nbc news senior investigative correspondent lisa myers. and here with us onset, msnbc political analyst howard feinman. >> i want to get to what bob dole had to say over the weekend. that's fascinating. >> yeah. >> but david gregory, let's talk right now about what lies ahead.

a story yesterday talking about immigration reform that republicans lost round one. but in the senate, but you hear that conservative republicans in the house are ready to throw down the gauntlet. that pathway to citizenship is just going to be a hurdle that may be too high. >> and i think it's interesting going back to the immigration debate in '06 and '07 when president bush tried it. the issue there among conservatives was, again, the concept of amnesty. here it has lessened somewhat but still a question of sequencing. if you're going to do enough border security, can you do that -- should you do that first before you get to this question of providing a legal pathway to citizens? so i still think even in the senate, it faces somewhat of a difficult road, maybe it's 50/50, maybe it's slightly better than that. but the house becomes more difficult. obviously the senate's so important because they can get a lot of votes there, it could

have influence over what happens in the house. despite the fact we've been talking for months about whether republicans and democrats feel the need to do this politically, it faces that hurdle over that pathway. >> and you know, this weekend, i thought gene robinson, there was a fascinating article, "new york times" about the battle between marco rubio and basically the rest of the united states senate. john mccain, especially being tough on rubio, but you see rubio and ted cruz seem to be jockeying for 2016. that's a very dangerous game for marco rubio. he doesn't represent texas, he represents florida. and i'm surprised that marco has put himself with mike lee and ted cruz who can survive this and win. but now he's one of three people that is blocking budget negotiations. he's on the other side of immigration reform. he seems to be playing a very high-risk game of politics here.

>> well, it is high risk. rubio is all in on immigration. this has become his signature issue. and so, at least in the short and medium term. his career rises and falls on what happens to this legislation. and it is an uphill battle. i think he remains convinced that the logic for the republican party, for the future of the republican party as a presidential party, as a party that can win the white house depends on whether or not immigration reform gets through. and i think he's going to continue pushing that idea. >> is that why, howard, he's going so far out on a limb in these budgets? to be in a republican party that has complained for four years about harry reid not passing a budget in the senate rightly, i think it's shameful what the democrats did in the last four

years. they pass a budget and now marco rubio, mike lee and ted cruz. and again, the last two there are not going to be punished. they'll be rewarded at home politically for that. but marco rubio being one of three senators saying we are stopping this budget from going to conference so we can start negotiating over the paul ryan budget. that is pretty radical politics. >> well, i think marco rubio is walking a very thin line here. because on the other hand, by being so far out in front on immigration, he's taking on the tea party on that issue. but i think he's got to get -- >> is he overcompensating? >> well, he's compensating, we can decide, but he's compensating the other way. tea party emotions, we wrote off the tea party in a sense a year ago or two, but they're back and they basically run not only the house, but the senate. and the reason they're running the senate in part is that mitch mcconnell, all roads lead to kentucky for me. but mitch mcconnell is the

republican leader. he's up in 2014, his campaign manager is rand paul's former campaign manager. mitch mcconnell's got to get right with the tea party. he's going to offer procedural help to people like rubio and cruz and lee, or at least not punish them for doing what they want to do to get right with the tea party. >> and rubio's part of it. and of course, you bring up mitch mcconnell. it's important to remember, mitch mcconnell worked hard against rand paul. he's a smart politician. >> now they're partners. >> yeah, they are. well, here's bob dole on fox news sunday talking about the state of the republican party. let's throw this into the mix. >> what do you think of your party? of the republicans today? >> i think they ought to put a sign on the national committee doors that says closed for repairs. until new year's day next year. and spend that time going over

ideas and positive agendas. >> you describe the gop of your generation as eisenhower republicans, moderate republicans. could people like bob dole, even ronald reagan, could you make it in today's republican party? >> i doubt it. reagan couldn't have made it. >> bob dole, obviously, lisa myers, slowed down, but bob dole is still bob dole. funny guy. and we talk about 2014, so many things going forward. will the republican party be ready for 2014? a lot of people say no. they've gone too far right. but you look at the irs scandal and i think we can call that a scandal. you look at that, look at fox news investigation. criminalizing journalism as many progressives have said. that causes problems for the

democrats, as well. where is irs investigation right now? >> this week, joe, going to be mostly behind closed doors because congress is out on the house oversight committee is going to be interviewing some of the mid-level irs employees, some from d.c., some from cincinnati. we're going to get our first sense really of how forthcoming the irs is going to be because at the end of the week, there's the sweeping bipartisan document request from the senate finance committee. are they going to comply fully? it asks for any communications with the white house about anything having to do with the irs. whether individuals actually got other attention from the irs in terms of personal or business audits. there's not going to be a lot showing this week, probably the most serious phase of this

investigation as they try to move it forward beyond the testimony of senior officials. >> it is great material for the republicans for sure. having said that, give us some perspective on bob dole's remarks about the republican party? >> he's not the first to say them. he's an important voice to say them. could've made it, you know, politically in this party. but times do change and the party changes and the party reacts to different realities that it faces. this is a republican party, there are sections of it, but the tea party sentiment is to be more restrained in projecting u.s. power. that's as a result of iraq and afghanistan, and certainly the spending of the bush administration from taxes to prescription drugs and elsewhere is something that created a tea party even though the bush folks

say that caricature is just that, something that's overblown. but i think there's something important here about the tea party success in the midterm elections last go around is something they want to try to replicate. that has an impact not just on congress, but on policy. that's a far cry from impacting national elections, and what the republican party has there still has to be worked on. >> one of the things you said a couple of seconds ago, i think people find striking. we'll find out whether or not the irs will be, how forthcoming the irs will be. and people hear that and think, the irs, well, aren't they an agency of the government? don't they report to the president of the united states? what is the story in their forthcomingness? so far, we have not learned much. they claim not to know and when it was proven they did know,

they had reasonably lame excuses as why they didn't inform congress. and you've got lois lerner on administrative leave with pay. a lot of us would like to be on administrative leave with pay. >> sounds like a good deal for me. would you mind talking to phil griffin. i would love that july and august off. >> me too. you could play a lot of golf. >> exactly. i like that. >> okay, david gregory. lisa myers, thank you so much. >> i've never understood that. you know, i've been at msnbc for a long time now, those guys that would get shows, two shows and everybody say, boy, that sucked and pay them $2 million a year for three or four years. i try to be bad. i'm not bad enough. i'm going to keep trying, though. >> am i bad enough?

phil griffin? i need to try -- >> still ahead on "morning joe." >> it's getting bad in the next segment. the only biography authorized by margaret thatcher under one condition, it wouldn't be released until after her death. we'll talk to the author about that, charles moore. and up next, the new era in the drone wars. what if every country controlled the technology? >> we'd be bombed every day. i'm the next american success story. working for a company

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imagine a world where every country has drone technology with the ability to name someone a terrorist and target him any time and anywhere. according to one south african arms dealer, that could become a reality. and here with us now from london to explain, nbc news foreign correspondent and correspondent for nbcnews.com. you've been covering this. give us a sense of how much this potential could become a reality. >> hi, mika, good morning.

look, the u.s. has been incredibly reluctant to share its drone technology with countries around the world. and we had the president's speech last week effectively saying they're going to rove back a bit from armed drone attacks, particularly in nonwar zones. but the question, is it too late? because what we've done is look around the world at countries and arms manufacturers that are looking at building their own armed drones. you can talk about china, you can talk about turkey. in particular, as well, south africa, i went and visited a country that are openly saying they're going to build or want to build an armed drone that won't be as sophisticated as the reapers or predators of the u.s. it will have a reach of about 250 kilometers and won't use satellite technology. that's an advantage if they do make this because it will be cheaper and less sophisticated to run. you won't need satellites. >> so, first of all, just time line, how far off is this reality? and the concern that drones can

get into the wrong hands? >> they are saying it will take six months of testing ahead and they are owned by the south african government and will need to want it to go ahead. there are very few armed drones around the world at the moment. the question is, whether or not, though, countries are going to start getting them at some point and that's going to escalate quickly. >> howard, just the beginning. >> well, i'm curious which countries we're talking about here. which entities. it doesn't have to be countries, but entities. who are we talking about who might first get their hands on this kind of capability that the united states has shown to be so dangerously effective, shall we say? >> yeah, exactly. that's the question. i mean, when we spoke to general dynamics they didn't want to talk about particular clients and reiterated that the south african government will be careful about who they sell to.

but they did talk about africa, the middle east, there had been some reports about saudi arabia, for example. again, they say they will be very careful about who they sell to. but it's a good question. particularly as this technology gets cheaper. that's the issue, i think. >> well, anybody in the world. any country can buy arms at any point in the day. if iran can develop a nuclear weapon, clearly iran could develop a drone. >> right. and the thing about drones, i mean the crucial thing about drones, the u.s. has discovered is that because they are manned, it enables you to kind of fly this armed flying machine into any territory that it can reach into another country's territory at no risk to any of your own people. that's the real advantage for countries. you can just throw this thing out there and target somebody if

you choose to and it doesn't necessarily even have to be in your own territory. >> all right. kier simmons, you can find the full piece on nbcnews.com. thanks very much for being on the show this morning. up next, it's a biography 16 years in the making authorized by the iron lady herself. author charles moore joins us with his long awaited portrait of the life of margaret thatcher. and david axelrod will join the conversation. we'll ask him about the roll out of obama care. more "morning joe" in a moment. kids are like sponges. they soak up everything.

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have only one thing to say, you turn if you want to. the lady's not for turning. >> two months since margaret thatcher has passed away. the man that spent 16 years writing this portrait of thatcher's life. former editor of the "daily telegraph" charles moore. titled "margaret thatcher: the authorized biography." and probably the falklands -- her power, wasn't it, charles? >> that's correct. that was her most complete victory and put all her troubles behind her and she was able to get on and run things the way she wanted. >> she was -- she was a divisive figure. she and reagan were very close, but you know, the further americans get away from ronald reagan, the more you hear progressives saying if only

today's republicans could be like ronald reagan. i was struck after she passed away how many commentators from britain would say she was divisive and people couldn't stand her. and say, of course, she had to break the unions. almost like they agreed she had to do what she did but many believe she was too brusk in doing it. >> yes, i think people sometimes worry about the personality, the style. but the legacy is not divisive. for example, you mentioned the unions. in 1979, there were 29 million working days, in 1990, fewer than 2 million. whatever the rhetoric. >> yeah. howard? >> as the conservative party in britain as fondly remembering of her as -- as -- and do they view her as a role model today as they try to get back and run

things properly? >> well, i think they increasingly do. because now in the whole of the west, there are big problems about the crisis of capitalism, what's going wrong with money, where is our civilization going? and mrs. thatcher is a leader much more effective in bad times than in easy, peaceful times, and so people are looking for that sort of leadership again. not necessarily precisely the same policies or style, of course, but that's the sort of longing. >> charles, it's fascinating, you write about how margaret thatcher was influenced by the traditional views of what a wife should be that she would never think of making dennis, her husband, cook his own meals because he was too old-fashioned. so here she was while she was at war with the labor party, while she was at war with the labor movement, while she was at war with the falklands, she would come home and she would be cooking over a skillet, cooking his eggs for breakfast every

morning. >> yep. yes, that's literally true. but i think she'd like to play this double game very effectively of being very much a traditional wife and, of course, taking her husband's name, mrs. thatcher, and, yet, subverting the old order. because she'd conquered all the men, really and the most successful woman politician in -- certainly in british history and possibly the whole history of the world. >> gene robinson. >> you worked on this book for many years, in her last years, mrs. thatcher suffered dementia. i wondered when you saw that coming on and how you dealt with that as you reported the book. >> well, very luckily i was able to interview lady thatcher in the late '90s when her mind was in pretty good condition. in the later years, sadly, you couldn't do that. i would take her out to lunch and have a bit of a chat.

it seemed -- you'd still get little nuggets of gold. she couldn't remember everything properly by then, but if you mentioned the name from the past, perhaps, interesting things would who was running northern ireland for the prime minister at the time. and after he was killed, the day he was killed, it's in the book here, mrs. thatcher told the bbc, "some devils got him. they must never, never, never be allowed to triumph." do you think his death, the way it occurred, the assassination, way it occurred, did it extend the war in northern ireland and make her just less pliable to coming to a resolution earlier than -- rather than later? >> well, she certainly felt that, you know, while british people were being killed, it was impossible to do deals with anybody who was trying to kill

them. and of course, you mention aaron neve very rightly. she was nearly killed. the brighten bomb planted by the i.r.a. in 1994 came very close to killing her and her colleagues. this was an absolutely perennial problem for her in a most direct and personal sense. >> charles, you had extraordinary access to her, to people close to her, to her letters, on the condition that this would not be published until after she was -- had passed away. what about this book, there's been a lot written about her in what ways did this book cast her in a new light? >> i think there were two big ways. the first is the complete revelations about her early life that come out from private letter she had written to her sister nobody had seen before she writes more about clothes than politics she write about the film she loved and she writes about falling in love. contrary to what she said, she had several different boyfriends before she married dennis. that's fascinating. then there's the political career.

i think what comes out very strongly is though it was absolutely true she was a woman of conviction, she was also a very subtle politician and a cautious one and she knew, you know, when to hold them and when to followed them. she won't admit that she wouldn't admit that pragmatic element but it was very much part of her success. >> never again and people commenting about this and shows how pragmatic she was, like ronald reagan. she crossed a lot of things but she did not go after the british health care system. she knew that was a bridge too far. can i ask you really quickly, in closing, because margaret thatcher, i think from 1979 forward, people didn't think, this is so great, we have a woman who this now prime minister of great britain. she was just such a huge force on the scene, she was a prime minister who happened to be a woman. we forget some time if could you, for american audiences especially, explain how radical it was in that society, that buttoned up, male-centric

society, for a woman to kick down the doors and change the country? >> yes, no, it was quite extraordinary. when she went to oxford university, she wasn't allowed to attend debating society because she was a woman the oxford union. that shows the sort of problem. i think she could only have managed this in an era of failure because they needed something completely different. but i think she brilliantly used her own gender to turn everything around so she could be the -- a new voice, a different voice and a voice that was reaching out to a whole load of voters who weren't interested in the conservative party before and particularly to women voters. so, it was -- the disadvantage she turned into an advantage. >> amazing. charles moore, thank you very much. the book is "marg gretd that much -- margaret thatcher, the authorized biography." david axelrod will be here. >> you think he is going to bring the suitcases of cash? >> pickup truck. >> pickup truck? >> pickup truck. i don't make any decisions about who to hire

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okay, eugene robinson and howard fineman. great having you on. >> thank you, guys. up next, after going through one athlete abuse scandal, you would think rutgers would check

the resume of its athletic director. >> you know what you don't want? you don't want to replace that guy with a coach that would call women really, really bad names. >> i would think abusive behavior is something they ward against. they didn't think of using you the google. willie explains the new problems for the university, next. i am an american success story. i'm a teacher. i'm a firefighter. i'm a carpenter. i'm an accountant. a mechanical engineer. and i shop at walmart. truth is, over sixty percent of america shops at walmart every month. i find what i need, at a great price. and the money i save goes to important things. braces for my daughter. a little something for my son's college fund. when people look at me, i hope they see someone building a better life. vo: living better: that's the real walmart. happy birthday! it's a painting easel!

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good morning, it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5 a.m. on the west coast, you take a live look at new york city, it is probably a very good time to wake up and you get out of bed. yes, absolutely. >> a long weekend. wasn't it a long weekend? >> yeah. >> a lot of people in your neighborhood sipping on pim's cups late into the evening? right? planning their trip to paris this summer? >> that's mika -- >> that's mika's neighborhood. >> very funny. >> at the dog track. >> pbr. >> not what i was doing. back with us on set, we have john heilemann. >> pbr? isn't that pabst blue ribbon? >> yes, tall boys. otb, off track belting. >> pbr at otb. >> to bring it n >> dr. jeffrey sacks is with us. >> if you're going to do pr, mika, you got to do it like our friends at rutgers. >> oh, right. just wipe the slate clean. >> athletic director, he is screaming, he is yelling.

>> terrible to his students. >> horrible things. >> too rough around the edges. >> people say let's bring in a woman. >> a mom. >> maybe a mom. >> huggie. >> soft and sweet. >> an athlete and things are going bad. >> she will know what to say. warm touch. >> be like the oracle, you know, in "the matrix" some cookies there and even mr. smith will have a cookie. right, willie is that -- >> yes. >> yes, that's what's happened at rutgers. >> thank god, they have turned the page. >> how did you get to "the matrix" on that one? >> good for the school. >> good for the school. you're a jersey boy. >> got rid of mike rice. >> he is out. >> too rough. too tough on the kids. >> players, you're no good. >> bring in julie hermann athletic director, at louisville, highly regarded. >> a woman's touch. >> a woman's touch. >> now there's more trouble. >> what? >> two months after this video surfaced of mike rice, the

former rutgers basketball coach -- >> that wasn't right. >> during at his players, rice i was fired by the university athletic director resigned. in an attempt to repair their image, rutgers replaced him with julia herman, assistant a.d. at louisville, now facing her own allegations of abuse. the new york star ledger is report a group of female volleyball play terse university of tennessee alleging that hermann ver vremember is bali a them in 1997. >> this guy they get rid of. >> the members of the group in 1996 claim that herman called them, quote, forget the language here, whores, alcoholic and learning disabled, quotes from the letter of the players. >> no, he did not.

>> call them things separately or one sentence? because if it is just one senten sentence, the grammar is very bad. >> wait a minute, really? >> don't focus on the grammar here, john. others include yanking players by their jerseys, forcing them to wear workout clothes inside out to a restaurant after a loss. asking play officers they were going to lose game for the team and lightly hitting her in the stomach with the back of her hand. the university of tennessee paid 150 grand in a discrimination lawsuit to one of hermann's assistants who alleged hermann discouraged her from getting pregnant and fired her. >> on the video. she is invited, this lady goes, i got to invite my boss to the wedding, her husband says don't do that i got to do that. i got to do that. don't do that they are in there, got the wedding video, from what i understand, i like at a lot of these things on the weekend, right? these videos. i love. they and this one, she goes up to the lady who just got married, the kids at the

orphanage love it just got married and she says don't get pregnant. and -- >> come on. >> hate for things to go badly for you. here is a video that i was watching, i think saturday night viewing. >> well -- >> so, she is joking around. >> apparently got -- >> the woman who was -- whose wedding that was later fire bud hermann says she was fired for performance but not because she got pregnant. this came out because of the star ledger. >> she got pregnant and then got fired. >> rut guess the president there says he stands by julia hermann.

>> because that's what they do at rutgers. we got a lot of news to do >> yes, we do actually. that was terrible. >> that's just not -- thank you, willie. with just months to go before open enrollment begins for obama care there is good news for the white house coming out of california. the state has revealed the prices for its health care plan under the affordable care act and the rates are lower than previously expected. however, the president's signature piece of legislation still faces an uphill battle when it comes to winning over voters a new cnn opinion research corporation poll finds 54% of americans are opposed to the law. that number is relatively unchanged since the bill was signed into law three years ago. 35% oppose the law because it is too liberal while 16% say it's not liberal enough. meanwhile, if you already have insurance through your employer, you may still feel the effects of obama care. "the new york times" reports many companies are looking to avoid the so-called cadillac tax, which penalizes companies

that offer high-end health care plans to its employees. some employers are looking to cut back on costs, meaning some of the more generous health care perks you enjoy may be a thing of the past. the burden of making sure the affordable care act has a smooth rollout falls on the shoulders of secretary of health and human services, kathleen sebelius. the hill says several democrats are already concerned over sebelius' hand handling of the bill since it became a law three years ago, alleging any missteps could tip the scales of the 2013 midterm elections in five of the gop. >> john heilemann, sure you're hearing it all the time. i heard t max baucus came in, talked to us before he retired, said his number one concern next year, implementation of obama care them don't think they are up to it they think the law of unintended consequences is going to blow up in the democrat's face. what do you think? >> well, i think that it's absolutely obviously a political concern for democrats.

because this law has not -- almost -- mosts of the provisions have not gone into effect. so, most people still don't understand what it is and we still don't know what the economic consequences were going to be. there is the level of uncertainty still hangs over it around the politics were miserable for the administration throughout its passage. until people start to feel in a significant way the benefits of the law, whatever benefits those are the political support is going to remain tenuous and so in this period of transition into the law, it remains politically vulnerable. >> it is interesting that 16%, willie, actually want it to be more liberal. you look at those numbers, a lot of times during the vietnam war where a majority of the people in america disapproved of the handling of vietnam, america's most unpopular war, where a big chunk of those people wanted us to be more aggressive, more earn gauged in vietnam h you have the opposite case here, progressives say this doesn't go far enough. >> e.j. dionne is with us in

washington. interesting if you luke at this number, 54% oppose the affordable care act according to the cnn poll. i wonder how many understand about obama care. ask anybody in this room or on the street what are the particulars of obama care, i would be shocked if anybody could tell you exactly what it means next year. >> no absolutely. the difference between this and, says, the prescription drug benefit under medicare passed under bush is everybody basically understood, all seniors did, that you can sign up with an insurance company and get drug coverage. and when you look back on that there was a lot more money from congress to implement a simpler thing than obama care. wait they organized obama came, the president and this plan are at the mercy of the states and where you have governors who really want to implement it, california's a good case, colorado, oregon, washington, my hunch is the implementation is

going to go pretty well. but in states where republican governors are very hostile to it, implementation may not go very well and yet the president's going to be on the hook for that so it is going to be complicated. >> it is going to be complicated, get really complicated. stories in the new york times that i don't really -- i'm having a hard time getting my arms around as far as intel, political intel. we talked about that in just one minute. >> political intelligence firms, that was in the "washington post" yesterday. incredible u >> where the washington -- the white house preps hedge funds on certain items. we are going to talk about that in money minute. first, news over the weekend -- >> yes. >> you know if mike murphy was happy about the republican strategist. >> he is just fine with t according to political, republican strategist mike murphy was the man behind several pro-gun reform ads produced for new york city mayor michael bloomberg's gun group. murphy worked on spots defending senator pat toomey and this ad,

critical of democrat mark pryor. >> when my dear, innocent friend was shot to death, i didn't blame guns. i blamed a system that makes it so terribly easy for criminals or the dangerous mentally ill to buy guns. that's why i was so disappointed when mark pryor voted against comprehensive background checks. on that vote, he let us down. tell mark pryor to take another look at background checks because we're tired of being disappointed. >> murphy defended his role in the ads, tweeting this, note to traitors, howlers, i'm proud to support comprehensive background checks and the second amendment, just like the nra did in '99. >> mike murphy, obviously, has always been a guy that has supported candidates that win. and he has won some race and i suspect that it's going to be people like mike mur neigh are going to help us, as the

republican party, get the middle of america back again. but still, he is going to be hounded for the rest of his political life by extreme members of the nra. not by the nra. most support background checks. but extreme members. >> mike murphy never been a strategist who worked for -- not somebody associated with far right candidates -- very far right candidates. he will probably wear this as a badge of honor, the kind of thing he has done a lot of this kind of middle of the road republicanism over the course of his career. >> i remember when i was fighting -- not fighting but reading the things that people were saying on twitter during the background check battle, people saying that i was a left winger around a ryan know. you know ronald reagan supported -- this and the grade bill and support assault weapons

band. well, reagan was a rhino. >> really? >> guy that created the modern republican party is not conservative enough, according to these howlers, as he said on the far right, they are such a minority. sure, you know, 12 of them go out and they vote in these congressional primary races. never enough to win presidential races so the party just those decide do you ever want not be white house again or not? very simple. i like winning. i'm different. i am a rhino in that respect, my dear howling friends. i like to win. in fact, i do win. that's just what i do. you know, i go out, say how do you get -- 'cause i don't know if you knew this or not, the idea in elections is to get more votes than the other side. >> i think there's some people who don't know that at this point. >> i know there's some people who don't know that in presidential race. did you see this "washington post" story?

>> dig deeper later but love to get it in before the break. >> what is the obama administration doing? >> i don't know. raises questions i'm not sure what else could have been happening at these meetings but in washington -- in washington, the race for political intelligence, they are calling it is heating up, as investors are looking to cash in. the "washington post" is reporting there is a rise of consultants who specialize in providing government information to wall street and in some instances, directly from the white house. these are political intelligence firms, they are called. >> insider information, basically. >> um, i don't -- i don't know. the post singles out officials allegedly providing information to invooers lated to the president's decisions on health care-related issues but the article goes on to mention there are similar interests from several other industries including defense, agriculture and energy. lawmakers and federal investigators are looking into whether or not investors are gaining access to confidential information and if so, that information is being used on the markets and attract the markets

to find out if there is a tie. >> jeffrey, they are giving them insider information. i'm not -- and that is -- >> you think that's -- >> i'm not saying -- >> we can't say that. >> a classical legal sense of the word but what they are doing this article talks about bringing in hedge fund people and corporate types to say hey, this is how we are going to implement this and they pay for these services to get this access so they can go back and make investments. >> you think the white house would be a little more careful than doing briefings for hedge fund -- for the hedge funds or for these firms that are being paid by the hedge funds to get the one day in advance information or the political briefings. it's all another enormous waste of human time, energy, resources, to game the system. so it's not different from anything else. >> is it ethical? >> i think it's stupid, first of all, for the white house to be playing this game. >> still ahead on morning joke, the end of the nra?

how the once-powerful gun lobby is getting outmuscled by another more determined group. that is the could have over the story of the new issue of "the new republic." david axelrod will be here. >> cash, just buckets full of cash. >> don't impact this badly. thank you. but first, here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> mika, let me introduce you to the tornado intercept vehicle. out there on the roads a couple seasons. they try go through the middle of tornadoes, it worked yesterday, this was northern kansas, that was strong tornado, literally at dark and at night, went through the middle of 150-mile-an-hour winds. it stayed on the ground, as it's designed to do and broke off the wind gauge when it hit 150 on the roof of the vehicle. pretty crazy stuff. they purposely did it and they lived to tell their tale. the vehicle itself weighs about 14,000 pounds. it actually can be lowered to the ground on high drawlic and

has spikes that go into the ground to hold it in place so when it goes through something like this, they can live to tell about t pretty crazy stuff this is a picture of the vehicle here on the road. actually can go 100 miles per hour, diesel powered. as far as the forecast today, rain diving down for new york city, philly, d.c., baltimore. bring your umbrellas today. no severe storms but that will be the sign of things to change. look at d.c., four days in a row, 90-degree heat and humidity going to be turned up to like double what it has been the last couple of days. get ready for ac weather in a hurry. remember how cold it was on saturday? as far as severe storms, nothing much severe out there today, just light severe weather. as far as storms go this morning, detroit, chicago, the real deal will be late this afternoon into this evening, talking from chicago to kansas city, st. louis. if we are going to get any isolated tornadoes, most likely, they will occur thought in western kansas, all sections of nebraska. but as we go throughout the rest of this week, the heat on the east coast and all the severe

weather with us. pinpointing thursday night for our best chance of tornadoes and maybe few strong tornado, watch out in those same areas just hit by the moore tornado, oklahoma city, kansas city witch up and it tulsa. we leave with you a shot of washington, d.c. some clouds and rain today. and then we jump straight into the middle of summer the rest of this week you are watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. hey america, even though she doesn't need them, cheryl burke is cha-cha-ing in depend silhouette briefs for charity, to prove that with soft fabric and waistband, the best protection looks, fits, and feels just like underwear. get a free sample and try for yourself.

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it's reached the point that if i want to interview anyone in the administration on camera,

from the loews level worker to a white house official, i have to go through the white house press office. if their chosen spokesperson turns out to have no connection to the story at the moment, as was the case when u.n. ambassador susan rice was sent out to ex-plant benghazi episode, then that's what we, and you the taxpayer, get, and it usually suspect much. so, i am glad the president has asked the attorney general to review whether his investigations into leaks is having a chilling affect on journalists. but it shouldn't stop there the president needs to rethink his entire communications policy, top to bottom. it is hurting his credibility and shortchanging the public. and to head the review, how about someone other than the attorney general, whose department is so deeply involved? that makes no sense to me. >> okay. that was veteran journalist and long-time washington reporter,

bob schieffer with the way the obama administration has handled the blesspress. joining us from chicago, msnbc contributor, david axelrod. john heilemann, mine barnicle and brian shactman at the table as well. what do you make of what bob schieffer had to say. among all of his points, did any of them make sense to you? >> i think we have to separate out issues. i do think there are regarding the relationship with the media on this leak issue. the notion of naming a journalist as co-spocokocon -- co-conspirator is something i find disturbing. because bob can't work the guest he wants, i'm unsympathetic to

it. >> is it really that simple? is bob schieffer a whiner? suggesting that he is a whiner? >> no i'm not. i didn't say whiner. don't put words in my mouth. >> kinds of like a whiner. you guys since 2008 have more effectively shut out the press with online media than anybody else. not access to the president. >> people who don't have much to say with issue at hand. >> you think it is a bad policy to put out the people you think are jermaine to a story. i don't think he is whining, i think he is doing, from his perspective, what he needs to do, which is nudge more guests to come on his show. but now i do think the other issue is serious. i think mixing the two is a mistake. i do think the other issue is a serious issue. we have to figure out -- a lot of people last summer, we had this discussion last time,

complaining there were national security los angeles and they said they were coming out of the white house. two grand juries were impanel and investigations flowed from that. but we have to separate out how we deal with national security los angeles and how we protect the freedom of the press and the freedom of reporters to operate and certainly this rosen case raises some very disturbing issues. >> what's the most disturbing part of the rosen care the rosen investigation? for you, as former reporter, what are you most disturbed by? >> i don't think, the president said in his speech last thursday, i don't think reporters should be considered criminals for doing their jobs and the job of reporters to uncover fact. the administration is in a different position in the sense that there are national security issues that you are sensitive and do need to be froechblgtd i agree with schumer around graham and the others and the president now on the media shield law who

say a judge ought to make that decision, too easy for any administration to manipulate that. i don't think the administration has. i think these -- these, you know, notions that somehow this relates to nixon and what was done back then is completely wrong because they were operating for their own political benefit and i don't think that's what happened here. but there has to be some way to ensure the integrity of these decision independent of any administration. i do think having a judge make those decisions is the right way to go >> you work really closely with president obama for years in the white house, most of four years in the white house. did you sense -- people said and have asserted in the various issues around leaks, he is personally very troubled by them and that he was -- that this comes from the top, the notion that the president is more sensitive to los angeles and more aggravated by los angeles and more irritated by leaks than

previous presidents. i don't know you don't have past experience in that area. did you see that personally from him he got upset about the notion of leaking, not just on national security, but across the board in your time in the white house? >> i think that he -- i think he is no more disturbed by it than any other president has probably been disturbed by it, but i think the national security leaks are in a category on their own because he lives every day with the responsibility for people's lives and when he thinks they may be jeopardize or national security may be jeopardized, i think he puts that in a separate category. he gets aagraph rate issed by te little los angeles. how you deal with them is an important question because he understands shall as we all should, that the press plays an important role and we need to honor that role. >> okay. so, david i understanding that and respecting that, would your advice to the president be to appoint an independent properties cuter to look at this

rather than having attorney general eric holder basically question himself? >> i don't think that -- i may have misunderstood. i don't think what the president asked holder to do was to investigate. i think what he asked him to do was to review the policies of the justice department relevant to these kinds of inquiries and come back to him and report on those. that's separate thing than an investigation. and i think that review is necessary. he is the attorney general. he has policies. the president is saying to him, i want to you come to me and explain these policies and perhaps alter these policies to conform with what i believe is the right way to go in terms of investigations, i don't know exactly what you would be investigating. i'm not sure anybody will until these cases unfold. so, you know, i would wait and see exactly what the justice department did. all of these things should be a matter of public record once these cases are done, in my view r >> david, in terms of leaks

going from national security to health care policy and investing, the "washington post," of course, discussing some advanced information that might have gotten out to some wall street people before, you know, regarding the legislation. what are your thoughts on the ambivalence about wall street and that story as well? >> well, i don't -- i didn't exactly understand what the purpose of those meetings were. the purpose of those meetings were to assure the financial community about how of the -- of the wisdom behind how this thing is being implicated -- implemented, health care reform. then i think that that there's some value to that. if -- and if these the purpose, you know, it makes sense, if there was insider information to help advantage people, obviously, it doesn't. it wasn't clear for me -- it wasn't clear from that story -- >> just public relation-wise, not saying anything's illegal. maybe it's not even improper. maybe the bush administration

did this but to get hedge fund guys in and give them information seemingly before the information went public and everybody knew about it so they could trade on the market, it just sounds very disturbing. >> well, i -- well, what i think was absent from the story was any explanation from the administration as to why they had those meetings and i think it would be wise to explain that because a there had to be more to it. i don't think anybody in the white house said let's bring these guys and give them some sort of advantage, that would be strange to me, wouldn't comp port with my experience there >> can't ask david to krit shisz trends in the hedge fund world. >> why not? >> david making so much money doing this.

>> he looks like johnny depp in "blow" with all that cash. >> the new 1%. >> david, we kid because we love. thank you. say hi to susan for us. >> all right, will do so. up next, our guests who think the nr is over with done, kaput. we will ask them why. ♪ ♪ ♪ thank you. ♪ ♪ thank you.

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so to change washington, you, the american people, are going to have to sustain some passion about this. and when necessary, you have got to send the right people to washington. and that requires strength. and it requires persistence. and i see this as just round one. >> that was president obama leaving the gun control debate open after the senate defeat of a proposal to tight background checks. more than a month later where do things stand now in the new issue of "the new republic" looks at how "the nra is going down." joining us now the magazine's editor, frank bother around the writer of the cover story, eric

mcgillis. >> frank, frank, frank, i love you now. >> come on now. >> shared much soccer. >> traveled the world. >> come on now. you did this so liberals could pick up this magazine and hug it. >> so joe scarborough could pick it up and hug t. >> well, they are not going down. you may get background. >> want me to read a piece of alex ease piece? >> go ahead. >> this is how the nra end its 678 for some times now the nra's power has been more entrenched wisdom than actual fact. gun ownership is declining from half of householdless in the 1970s to a third today. the nra is just all mythology, senator chris murphy says, the nra does not win elections anymore. the reason for the gap between per sense and reality is that for many years, the nra has had no real opposition. this has given the debate a strange quality. for gun advocates, the recent challenge has been less about persuading politician on policy grounds and more about trying to convince them that the

conventional wisdom about gun politics is wrong. and then came newtown. that would be -- that would be where everything changed. >> newtown really did change this. and i think it's way too soon to suggest that somehow, you know, this is just one more terrible shooting that happened. senators who voted against the background check went home and got hit hard. >> john mccain said the first time in his 25 years on capitol hill, frank, went home and heard a protest outside and like, oh, god what very done now and he walked outside and there were people handing him roses. >> right. >> yeah. >> it has changed everything but, frank, come on. don't -- i agree. i think there's a parity now in

the fight. are they going down? >>s here t >> here's the deal, my friend. >> come on, my friend. >> not just editor oversell. >> this is editor oversell. you can't handle the truth. go ahead. >> because of what happens with a lobby like the nra, it is the power of the nra is not based on the fact they spend vastly greater sums of money, not the fact that they have more extraordinary lobbyists grecian the palms but based on the fact a perception you mess with the nra, you will pay a terrible political price. to be sure, there is a graveyard filled with the political careers of many, many politicians. >> even actually -- can i just say really quickly though? >> yeah. >> a lot of this mythology about the graveyards filled with those people comes from 1994. i can tell you, i talked about guns in 1994 but also nafta. i also talked about gatt. i talked about bill clinton's tax increases.

i talked about all of the military skirmishes and yes, i had the gun people, the property rights people, but there were like about 12 or 13 different -- it was taxes and it was the christian coalition that drove people over the top in '94. >> once you knock down that mythology and knock down that conventional wisdom in washington, i think you will find a lot of politicians who feel like they have a lot more breathing space to go out on a limb. plus, we even talked about the arrival of michael bloomberg and his vast sums of money. >> gabby giffords as well. >> with people shouting, right? >> here is a question, right? so you can -- there's not a good test case for knocking down the mythology in the sense that if they've won the vote, there's not -- there's no way, you would need to have a test case they didn't have the power, gun control would have to pass and then there would be no political consequences, instead, gun control didn't pass. >> no, no, no, no >> the other side -- >> let me ask the question.

the other side of the scale is you could demonstrate the weakness of the nra for people who voted against this bill to lose, so who's the scalp or scalps that the pro gun control forces, bloomberg forces, are going to pay a price for having vote ready the wrong way? >> their biggest problem right now, they have no vulnerable republicans who voted against the bill. ayotte and other senators not up for a couple of years, the big test case is going to be the democrats who voted against the bill, pryor, begich, they are up next year. you will have major spending against them by the bloomberg folks. that's not the ideal scalp. >> pryor, let's say you take out pryor you get somebody more liberal than pryor who then loses, then you have people going, oh, so, that is a real problem. >> it's why it's so important. >> if kelly ayotte were up in 2014, your test case would be there and she would lose and she would know she would lose. if she doesn't know she would lose, then she's in an alternate

reality. jeff flake is another guy in a state that's more of a swing state f jeff were up in 2014 he would be scrambling to get another vote. i still -- i predict they are going to have after the republican filing dates are passed, they are going to have another vote on capitol hill and these people are going to find an excuse to vote for it. >> the cover story of "the new republic" how the nra is going down. >> classic by mika, between you and me, classic editor -- >> overreach? >> pretty much what frank does. >> stock and trade. >> the "national enquirer" of political magazines. >> oh, come on! all right. >> seriously, vel jennifer aniston on next month. serious. >> i would buy that. >> holy cow. >> i don't think you would say that to your friends at the other magazine. >> i just read it is for the interviews. >> i read it for the interviews. >> not as close of friends. ge is making $1 billion bet

on fracing. how the corporate giant plans to profit on the energy game. that's next in business before the bell. and the mayor of toronto goes on the offensive. >> if you get caught smoking crack, how exactly are you on the offensive? >> how he is defending accusations of crack use and why you could say his relationship with the media is so somewhat strained. we will be right back. hey, look!k! a a shooting s st! mamake a wish!h! i wish w we could lie e here forevever. i wish thihis test dririve was ,

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>> steady. go! >> are you serious? >> i'm serious. >> you e-mailed bradley? >> i did, i wrote no! >> not another one. >> please, god, not a third one. >> they sold a lot. bradley has a lot of money. >> what? >> a lot more money. >> now there's another one. >> huge, but not as big as fast and furious part six, $120 million. "star trek," jj abrams, unbelievable work, epic, i have no idea what epic s ironman 3 -- >> that would be the third part. >> epic is an animated movie. then number six, gatsby. i got to see after tony scott's review you got to see it so over the top, like somebody vomited colors. >> don't. >> was it horrible? >> yeah. yeah. >> god. you have leonardo dicaprio. >> it's horrible? >> he is great. >> he is great r >> how does a director screw up

the great american novel with leonardo dicaprio? >> pretty easily. >> you will value mike barnicle's view of this over tony scott? >> peter travers, "rolling stone" review, the best, one star. >> joe morgan stern kill t >> brian sullivan, we give him five stars, jeffrey tambor hates him. said he was anti-semitic. >> did you see any arrests? >> i did see. >> he did. >> no. >> he keeps saying it on twitter. and yet, brian, he still has your watch. >> i'm going to ask bradley how many -- >> i gave him my watch. it was a gift. i got that watch for $7 in hong kong. he was admiring t >> greater love hath no man.

he is still attacking you. >> such a suck up. >> you guys need to take a little more of your happy juice this morning. what's going on with you? >> all right. >> i wonder what's in those cups. >> personal friend of mine, brian sun vamp you were so great. spill down today's news in six seconds. >> fracing. >> ge getting more into the fracing business. they do not oil they do not drill, who do not actually drive things into the ground but investing billions opening up a new technology center to help sort of perfect this process. ge really transforming itself from what it was into what it is becoming, of course, selling nbc, their stake, getting more into oil and gas, quickly becoming, guys, an energy leader, $15 billion in investments over the last five years in the energy space. >> thanks for that. >> see how good he did that. >> nothing anti-semitic about that >> what are you talking about? >> i didn't see it. i think tambor might be --

>> i think jeffrey tam sbor wrong. >> maggots. then he walks into their cameras. not a good way to play nice with the press when you are dealing with accusations -- >> oh, ow, that hurts. >> more "morning joe" straight ahead. angie's list is essential. i automatically go there. at angie's list, you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare written by people just like you. if you want to save yourself time and avoid a hassle, go to angie's list. at angie's list, you'll find the right person to do the job you need. and you'll find the right person quickly and easily. i'm busy, busy, busy, busy. thank goodness for angie's list. from roofers to plumbers to dentists and more, angie's list -- reviews you can trust. oh, angie? i have her on speed dial. music ... music ...

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the mayor of toronto firing back after accusations he was caught on video smoking crack. the report others website, gawker around toronto star, say they have been allowed to see the video. according to their reports, drug dealers were shopping the video around and on friday, the mayor had some choice words for the press. >> what? >> there's been a serious accusation from the toronto star that i used crack cocaine. i do not use crack cocaine, nor am i an addict of crack cocaine. >> there's a lot of nasty -- i think it's -- 80%. >> little too perceptive. >> 80% of them are nasty son of a guns. >> a bunch of maggots. main i shouldn't have said that. but any ways. >> he did apologize for the maggot call. >> maggots? >> city officials continue to call for him to step down and there's growing unrest in his office. >> really? >> chief of staff fired. press secretary, deputy press secretary quit. it's in a sham dell bell there

is north of the border. >> here we go. >> oh! >> down goes the mayor! >> down goes frasier. >> down goes frasier. let me ask you something. this is a pretty big guy. >> pretty big? >> john heilemann, i thought you told me that doing a a lot of crack actually made you lose weight, trim down. he certainly hasn't. >> certainly a good diet program for some. >> this guy has got to really -- >> really hard core crack addict, become an alcoholic, too. i am an american success story.

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or an annual fee, ever. go to citi.com/simplicity to apply. come back to "morning joe," kids. time for what we learned today. i learned that john heilemann said, you want to lose weight, crystal meth helps slim down a lot more than crack. take that with you. >> lose your teeth. >> jeffrey ham bore -- jeffrey tambor has brian sullivan's $7 hong kong watch. >> i want the mayor to move to new york and run for mayor of new york city only thing missing in the circus. >> a lot of material going on around readers of daily affair voted joe one of the most

fashionable men -- >> seriously? >> you got to be tripping. >> you know what, seriously, the socks. what did you learn, mika? >> there will not be another hangover after this one. >> bradley e-mail t way too early what time is it, mike barnicle? >>s if the's way too early, it's time for "morning joe." but right now, kristen welker. >> good luck. see you later. >> have a great day. thanks, guys. boardwalk bound. amid a wave of washington woes, president obama's first trip after memorial day takes him to the jersey shore to help governor chris christie kick off the summer season. this morning, we will talk to the president's communications director, jennifer palmieri. in florida, george zimmerman is heading back into court at this hour to decide what evidence can be used in his defense in the case of trayvon martin's shooting death. we will go live to the courthouse.