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gambling and booze and the other half i would spend foolishly. >> eddie dexter, two words. he i like this one. captain crunch. "morning joe" starts right now ♪ >> i'm curious to get his thoughts if you've seen them through news reports on representative michele bachmann announcing she would not seek a second term. >> i game from the oval office and i can tell you that subject did not come up so i don't have a response from the president. i think we all -- we all wish her well in her future endeavors. >> that's nice. good morning, everyone. >> it's may 30th on a thursday. welcome to "morning joe."

did you notice peter xarnlalexa he even tilts his head when he asks jay carney a question. >> did he go to that same school? >> is there a school that teach you how to tilt your head when you're reading the news? i love peter. >> does he do the lean too? willie? how? >> p.a. is my man. >> i love p.a. >> he is so usa. >> how do you do that? >> i don't know. >> the anchor lean and tilt? how do you do that? >> i love me some peter alexander. that's all i know. >> look like he could barely help himself there. >> the "new york post." willie, gotten off the weiner and gotten on the mayor. same thing. look at the daily news. >> that is horrible news and we will get to that in a minute. >> talk about that soon? >> uh-huh. >> what also we got? >> with us on the set is former governor howard dean and maggie

haberman of politico. i can't believe you have three little kids and do this. you should part of our discussion coming up about the new change in the american family. the national journal's ron fo n fournier and from "the new york times" jeremy peter. >> lot to talk about. >> did you see this? they are looking very closely, "the new york times" at the president's vacations. >> traveling. in a time of sequestration. >> i'm not sure. >> i tell you what, for me personally. >> they do have some nice vacations. >> i believe this sequestration talk is nonsense but get the president out of the white house. get him out of the bubble. and like you said before the show, when a president is on vacation. >> they are not on vacation. >> the president is never on vacation. >> it's just way of making sure they don't lose their family. >> right. you don't lose your family.

also kind of cliche. you know what? i think maureen dowd was talking about first ladies and someone said of pass nixon that all she really did for her husband was really well was make peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. maureen dowd made the point, if that helps the president of the united states, i may not have all of the facts right, but if making a peanut and butter jelly sandwich is part of a routine that puts the president in a good place, people complaining about this president golfing, i mean, i'm looking at an executive here. chief executive here, howard. if it puts you in a good place, golf, if like playing croquet helps you relax and clears your head, you know what i'm saying? i don't like them trapped in the white house. i don't like them trapped in the governor's mansion. let them get out there. >> you're talking to the wrong guy. i don't have any hobbies like

that. >> i don't either. >> my hobby was watching my kids in soccer and doing their best to control my outbursts at the referees! i was a bad hockey father! >> you know what? i can find better referees in alabama and arkansas and arizona! it never goes away, does it? you can't relate and i can't either. i love work. i love my kids. i love my family. i love work. but they don't play hockey in alabama or arkansas. >> dude, do i live in alabama now? >> don't you live in southern alabama? isn't that your district? >> it's called l.a. >> lower alabama, that's right. >> howard is not helping me out here. i believe presidents should do what presidents need to do to get in the right frame. >> interesting "the new york times" would cover there store. eric holder is trying to

make amends with the press. at the request of president obama, holder has agreed to meet with journalists this week as a part of his policy review of the d.o.j.'s leak investigations. however, "the new york times" associated press and "huffington post" will not attend because the justice department has asked for the meeting to be off the record. executive editor of "the times" released a statement that reads in part this. it is inappropriate for us to attend an off the record meeting with the attorney general. our washington bureau is aggressively recovering the department's handling of leak investigations at this time. holder is under heavy criticism from lawmakers who believe he may have committed perjury during his may 15th testimony on capitol hill. >> with regard to the potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material, that is not something that i've ever been involved in, heard of, or would think would be a wise policy. >> you know, mika, just days

after making that statement, of course, we learned about eric holder personally signing off on james rosen, that deal. willie, let's talk quickly about "the new york times." jill abramson led the way. not going to meet with him and not going off the record. the a.p. and "huffington post" followed up and when i first saw it, i was like wow. i think it may have been the right move. >> a.p. saying they will send a representative to the meeting. i think just these after the fact concern for the feelings and the rights of journalists are unconvincing to many public indications like "the new york times" and not put themselves out there. off the record, they don't want to be spun i think is the bottom line. if you want to talk to us, it's on the record. >> yeah. i think the concern they have is politico is actually going, i believe. but i think the concern they have is that journalists get used as props, right?

>> right. >> essentially, look, it's not so bad. you can't complain because you get to attend this meeting and we explain it to you. i think those protesting it is there is a concern and if it's n the record, what is the point. >> ron, you got caught up in an exchange on twitter. woodhouse began by saying the media forfeits their right to complain. >> you responded by saying nothing forfeits that right especially when it's about the boous of civil liberties by the ferguson. woodhouse said the meeting is to fix things and asked how not attending helps which is a good question too. to which ron replied the meeting would be happy to happened on the record saying the journalists are not the attorney

general's confessors or advisers. a great exchange. >> it is. it's tough, doesn't surprise us coming from you. if your kids ever play hockey, you will be as tough on the referees as howard dean does. this episode, what went down late in the afternoon underlines the problems of the a.p. story, the fox story. >> right. >> you have reporters suddenly becoming much tougher in their stance towards the obama administration and this played out yesterday. >> i started tweeting before the d.o.j. said they wanted to have this off the record. i predicted they would ask it off the record and started urging the media not to fall for it. >> how did you know that would happen and fall for what? >> i've been in the town more than five minutes. not the first time i've seen the media be used as props and not the first time i've been used as a prop. and just knowing how ham-handed

and tone deaf this administration has been dealing with the media, i wouldn't be surprised at all, i wasn't surprised at all when they decided this had to be off the record. here is the problem. >> a couple of weeks before a jay carney press conference? didn't they pull everybody off? explain to us, who haven't been reporters in the white house, on the white house beat, what does the white house try to do? why do they take you off the record? you said you're not going to fall for it. jill abramson is not falling for it. falling for what? >> off the record in washington means it's a secret. it means even if you show me pictures of a senator with sheep, i can't do anything with it. >> that's unfortunate. >> exactly. i'm not a priest. my job is to report what is happening. why would i want to be a part of especially a meeting with a bunch of other journalists on a topic that is a secret?

attorney general snooping on news organizations want us to keep it secret and starting with that is a problem. our job is supposed to be shining a light on the darkest corners of government and fighting for transparency. how can we be complacent with a meeting with the attorney general that we be reported on and tell the public what happened? if i'm a bureau chief and i go in and have this private meeting with the attorney general and i go back to my newsroom and i have to face my reporters who are supposed to be finding out what happened in that meeting, do i tell them and break my record with the administration? do i not tell them and let my reporters get beat because they have talked to someone else who -- i've been a part of these conversations and including on air force one that were off the record and they ended up not being off the record. >> ron, i get it. i also understand the position that "the new york times" is taking, especially in this case. but let's just talk plainly here. have you ever an off the record conversation as a reporter doing

your work? you're telling me you've never been off the record with anybody in doing your research? >> no. actually i'll tell you one time i was off the record with bill clinton on the way to oklahoma city the day after the bombing and mike mccurry insisted to the press corps it be in the cabin this and off the record or psych background he called it. the president of the united states told us under all of those conditions one of the reasons for the bombing was that the right wing radio had demonized bureaucracy and bureaucrats and that hate language leads to what happened in oklahoma city the day before and we were sworn not to do it. one did a pool report from the rest of the white house press corps that wasn't on the plane. reporting back to their colleagues. many reporters, obviously, didn't have anything to do with that deal but they got the pool report and they thought this was too important to sit on. they reported it. then i had explained to my bureau chief while i was on that plane was that costing the news

organization a lot of money and my job was to report on the president, yet i kept that very important news secret. >> howard? >> i don't have a lot of sympathy. i like ron fournier. he is a very ethical guy. this is kabuki. i was told by a washington reporter who wasn't kidding saying it won't be in tomorrow's paper but it's okay for sunday. i don't have much sympathy. >> that's right. >> i've seen it happen. when i was running for president, we got hosed by the press numerous times. i don't mind that. that's part of the deal but this is a war going on and there is a war between every politician and every member of the press. i agree with you. i think the press is absolutely essential to have a government that is open but i have no sympathy for reporters. it's a tough -- >> why pretend it's off the record? why say it's off the record? let's do in this in the light. first of all, if he wants the media's opinion he can read everybody's editorials. he knows what the media thinks about this. if he wants to pick marty

barren's brain -- >> that's not the point. >> i think he wants to -- my guess is he thinks there there is a lot of things that need to be explained that can't be in the paper the next day. i think his request is legitimate and i think what jill abrams did is legitimate. this is a tough business and people have to make their decision. but whacking the president and attorney general is wrong and i'll stand up for the politicians on this one. >> jeremy, on capitol hill, obviously a lot of concerns among republicans. they are talking about eric holder's testimony regarding the a.p. investigation. now they are claiming that he may have committed perjury. take us behind that story. >> i think what you're seeing going on here for a long time now have been two parallel stories. i mean, in most of america, people saw eric holder as the president's attorney general. they didn't think much about him. in fact, when people were asked in a cnn poll last year if they knew who eric holder was, a third of the americans didn't

know. on the right you see this story that is out there as eric holder the most corrupt attorney general basically since john mitchell. you had congressional republicans going after him. the first attorney general ever held in contempt by the house of representatives. that story never really jumped the tracks and never became a mainstream story. with the disclosures about the a.p. phone record subpoenas and going after james rosen, i think you're going to see this story really becoming a much bigger deal. >> maggie, obviously, a lot of -- the thing is, i mean, i don't know if we have a situation here with the republicans with the boy who cried wolf. eric holder was sworn in. it seems like the investigation began on the swearing in itself. it's one after another after another. yes, a lot of smoke there fast and furious, this, that, and the other. but, at this point, it seems like for the first time the justice department really seems to be taking on water here in a big way. >> oh, yeah. absolutely. i agree with you. i think there has been all of this smoke and i think you saw

holder play to that in the hearings recently, right? he basically made clear he felt victimed by isa and thought they were disrespectful to him and he used that very effectively. i think a legitimate point holder is making off the record meeting to explain why they are doing what they are doing but the concerns some of the press corps -- this is an investigation into whether there was an overreach or this is a complaint about whether there was an overreach into what the press does so that is why there is some line being drawn. >> howard, is there an overreach with the justice department? >> i think the press is thin-skinned and good at dirk it out and lousy at taking it. what you're seeing -- >> we hear that a lot. >> oh, my god! we are above reproach and trying to do only the right thing. they are getting a dose of medicine they dish out to politicians every day. i'm with ron and maggie. the role of the press is

absolutely essential in a free society. >> there is a difference -- i'm not going to disagree with you that reporters can often not quite take what they get back but there is a difference between whether -- a question whether there is an overreach aimed at chilling people talking to the press and the press being able to do its job which is not the same thing. >> and we are having take debate. >> it's a good debate. >> i'm going to be harold ford here for a second. i agree with ron and howard and maggie. i really do. i do agree with ron but, at the same time, howard, it used to shock me how newspapers would beat the hell out of me and other people every single day. and if you ever went after them, they would if, this is a challenge to the first amendment of the united states of america! they are -- i had a newspaper that would write crappy editorials about me every day and then i started fighting back. i did a couple of different

things. they said you can't talk about it's a chilling effect. you sit there going, give me a break! they sit there talking, you know, they are the most powerful institutions in the land. politicians are, you know, are led around by the nose. there is a politician in me speaking right now. i put on my political hat. you know, it's amazing how i would -- there would be editors that would go, you know, i'm just -- i'm just protecting the first amendment. you got all of this power and i've got -- you sit there going, you have more power in your pinkie and what you decide to put on page unof the editorial page than i will ever have as a congressman. >> only 10% of the people who read the editorial page are smart and already know what they think. the real power in the press is the people who write the stories which turn out to be editorials. >> yeah. >> bitter politicians. >> i'm going to say it right

now. >> let's be blunt about this. minnesota, mississippi, missouri, montana! >> you're doing them in alphabetical order, that is pretty good. you take "the new york times" which is extreme representable paper you go down the fourth paragraph and the reporter is putting their opinion in without labeling it an opinion. >> conservatives are complained about "the new york times" doing that for years. >> you can't write without putting your own feelings in there and you can't identify -- >> let me go to jeremy quickly. look what has happened also with the white house. an poimt for the fbi director of a republican, a guy from the bush administration administration. i'm wondering is this the obama administration trying to reach out to republicans on the hill in a time of trouble sf. >> i don't know. i think you saw this with chuck hag hagel, right? look how that turned it out. i'm not saying this nomination

is as troublesome as chuck hagel. i want to go back to the point going off the record. i think this is actually about a larger problem, which is how systemized off the record interactions have become in washington and on the campaign trail with reporters. i think that is why you're seeing organizations like "the times" object to this. >> exactly. >> you have press secretaries insisting on anonymity for divulging national security. we are talking about routine as a matter of fact demand for anonymity and that is ka krcorr to the news gathering process. i think a lot of them are saying we will not sit there and allow senior administration official to basically spin us. >> exactly. >> yes.

except now you're choosing not to know. >> no. we are choosing not to know and not to be able to tell the public about it. howard is exactly right. this is a very important balance that the government is trying to strike and has been trying to for 12 years. but it needs to be debated in public, not between a bunch of bureau chiefs and the attorney general. we have to be able to tell the public what is going on in these conversations. >> ron, thank you so much. just so you guys know the guidelines of this, ron, this entire first block has been off the record. >> you got it. >> you're not to write about it. >> put in sunday's paper, though. >> unnamed source in a news organization. >> i don't think it's as simple as that. ron fournier, thank you so much and jeremy peters, thank you. maggie haberman, thank you as well. >> we are thanking everybody! where is everybody going? >> i thought maggie was going to be here for a while. >> maggie, hang out. bob mcdonald will be with us coming up and tom brokaw and

catherine rampell and joanna coles. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> three weather stories today. more tornadoes to deal with, flooding in the midwest and the heat wave has arrived on the mid-atlantic. yesterday was 90 degrees. all of the hot air arrived for d.c., baltimore, philadelphia and didn't make it up to new york city today but it will today. 92 degrees as far north as hartford. the forecast is here to say through the upcoming weekend. 90s for d.c. all way through sunday. monday, we get cooled off with thunderstorms. now, yesterday, 23 more tornadoes and thankfully no significant injuries and no

fatalities from those. most of the tornadoes stayed over rural areas. that's the way we like it and hopefully it will happen again today. we have torrential rains through kansas city and st. louis top time all-time floo flood on the mississippi river, that, friends s a big deal. more severe storms likely, unfortunately, for you in oklahoma. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. i want to make things more secure. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting

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>> hammerin' hank aaron. amazing man and i grew up an atlanta braves fan and remember april 8th, 1974 when he broke babe ruth's record from mobile, alabama, from my hometown. an incredible man. a class act. a trail blazer in every way. i was going to say he would have made jackie robinson proud. he did. >> i'm looking at the style section in "the washington post." you always this go first, you know. from the time wit streaming in. "arrested development" other shows make ago comeback. jeffrey tambor will be a co-host here. >> we couldn't get him off the set the other way. >> from our parade of papers now. the seattle times. army staff sergeant robert bales will plead guilty to the murder of 16 afghan citizens to avoid

the death penalty. he is accused of carrying out a premeditated massacre in kandahar province when most of the victims were unarmed women and children. if the plea bargain is accepted presentencing in september where he will face life in prison without the availability to face parole. >> largest act w. >> marque journal sentinel. a new study out of georgetown not all college degrees are equal when it comes to landing a job. they focused on the arts at 9.8% graduates in health and scientific fields are faring much better with employment raid at 4.8%.

>> james lipton revealed in an interview with "parade" he worked as a pimp while he was in paris after the end of world war ii. if i had a nickel for every camera man on "morning joe" could tell that same story, willie and i would be at the dog track right now. lipton explained when he ran out of money, a prostitute he befriended told him he would be able to stay. >> why does this store keep going on and on and on? >> if he became a pimp which he did for an entire year! lipton, however, does not condone prostitution, kids, if you're watching. i'm saying, quote, if you can't earn it on your own, then you don't deserve it. my god, willie, in fact, you've got that actually plaque up right outside your office. >> hello! >> on pimping. you can't earn it on your own.

>> sitting right here! >> can you imagine lipton, an eloquent man. >> i wonder if guys would come to him and come with a stack of cards. would you like veronica or a mercedes-benz. >> >> jim, you got a story up off michele bachmann announcing she would not run for re-election. your calling. the fall of the conservative fringe. first of all, how do you define the fringe? i take it based on the timing of the story, you put michele bachmann into that group.

>> i think we can safely put her in that group. a creation of these celebrity politicians and thought this was a dominant strain of politics. the trunel is the political market seems self-correcting. sarah palin, herman cain and others have been wiped occupy politicians and essentially kicked out by voters or knowing voters would reject them. there are limitations to just being a celebrity on fox and just being a celebrity with the grassroots. most voters find that stuff repulsive and don't find it the type of politics they want and leaders in congress hate it. these guys are impossible to control for leadership. >> interestingly enough our guys say republicans had an improved chance of holding this district now she is gone but she got what she wanted. she will be a forever a popular speaker, a big fund-raiser and we have another piece up by alex burns, a clever story about the

playbook for doing this. go on tv. say something bottambambastic a tacked attacked on the left. >> get you a lot of attention and raise a lot of money but a short shelf life. >> like bachmann and he go for the gold right away and running for president and part of why she burned out the way she did. >> running for high office is a part of the playbook. >> it can be and i think it accelerated her public life our politics. >> splan is not nearly as relevant today as she was two years ago and almost irrelevant to the daily debate about politics. michele bachmann might get speeches and fox interview. >> you've been tracking anthony weiner as he runs for mayor here in new york city, covering, tracking, whatever you want to

call it. new anthony weiner same as the hold. >> i think is genuinely sorry he hurt his wife and sorry he had to resign his seat but in the end of the day he enjoys fighting and pugnacious and not average of being tough around the edges and he is voting on the idea people don't care. the people are not looking for him to essentially beg for forgiveness. >> you tracked him down yesterday? >> as it were, 11:30 at night. he wants it clear. >> he can win, right? >> you know something? we are going to see what happens in three months when people sort of remember what happened and the nolvvelty wears off. kristen quinn, can she come back? weiner is 15% and was clearly a

floor. i'm not sure how high that ceiling is. >> the politico posse, jim, mike, maggie, thanks. >> thank you. coming up, chicago go for sudden death overtime in a game seven? perhaps most of exciting game in all of sports. do or die. mets putting a hurt on the yankees in the subway series. all that in sports next. ♪ feels so right all stations come over to mission a for a final go. this is for real this time. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one.

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time for some sports. a classic hockey rivalry and a classic game last night. chicago and detroit playing game seven of the conference finals. chicago had the best record in hockey coming into the playoffs. facing elimination last night. pick it up in the third. game tied at 1. blackhawks score at home. 1:47 left. the crowd goes crazy and looks like that could send them on but hold on. the refs had blown the play dead for this fight that broke out between two players. goal waved off! hometown crowd is stunned. we go to overtime and o.t. it's brent seabrook finds and open

lane and buries the wrister and deflected there off the skate. tough break. blackhawks come down after three games to one in the series and held off detroit and play the l.a. kings now in the western conferences finals and they will host that series. baseball and mets getting the best of the yankees in the subway series. one day after beating ma an know rive -- mariano rivera in walkoff fashion. mets have a chance now to sweep the four-game series tonight at yankees stadium. >> that never happens. >> two in citifield and two at yankees field and they are about to sweep all four. we will seen. the scene in texas last night. thunderstor thunderstorms facing them to put the tarve down. they chased that thing all over the field. no makeup so far.

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from roofers to plumbers to dentists and more, angie's list -- reviews you can trust. i love you, angie. sorry, honey. ♪ 42 past the hour. a live look at the capitol on a beautiful thursday morning in washington, d.c. here in new york we have former mccain senior campaign strategist and msnbc political annist steve schmidt and howard dean is still with us. "the washington post" this is michael gersin. eric holder giving justice a bad name and says in part this. justice department officials attributed holder's actions to the, quote, withering pressure to investigate leaks from both within the intelligence community and the congress. so the weather vain complains about the wind.

attorney general could not survive a pelting hail of interdepthal memos. at times he has displayed the legal sense iblets of a flower child and other points pursued the broadest attack freedom in decades. hold holder's signature not ideology. he spent five years learning from his mistakes. it's been an expensive education. pretty searing. this is rich lowery writes this. what eric holder has done is so troubling to everyone including eric holder that president obama has ordered a review of justice department policy to be undertaken by the single most appropriate man for such a task eric holder. eric holder has a tight july 12th deadline to report back on eric holder. ah! let's hope he can imagine to be fair minded to eric holder despite his bitter

disappointment about learning about his practices. i would say the president is thin-skinned in this and they are reaching out and putting themselves out there trying to explain what happened and also saying not everything that happened was good. >> that needs to be changed. >> is this fair? >> no, this is silly right wing nonsense. "the national review" is silly. >> what are you talking about? >> right wing conservative nut case. they claim that -- let me -- the national review? let me just be blunt about "the national review" they claimed last week that i said that the death of four americans in ben ghazi was a joke. what i said that was that the investigation was a joke. this is crap. who gives a damn? this is why i don't read editorial pages because i don't give a damn about what they think. >> wow, the whole segment. >> steve schmidt? >> i think the criticism is fair

of eric holder on this. and look. when you talk about republican nuts. we have one retired last night. >> yes, you did! >> the people are writing this are not republican nuts. this is legitimate criticism. he is the attorney general of the united states. he acted without restraint, without discretion, without good judgment. >> if i can just say, rich lowery and michael gersin not serious people. >> serious people. he acted with terrible judgment on this. this is a absolutely outrageous assault on the first amendment, the freedom of the press, and if you had inserted the word bush after president instead of obama on this, i can't begin to imagine, you know, what the reaction to this is. >> howard? >> without -- i would take out the word outrageous and i would agree. i think is there a problem here. this is what i predicted a couple of weeks ago when they

had the irs scandal which turns out not to be a scandal. the ben ghazi which the republicans have been pedaling a year and a half. this is the up wione that stick. i'm on the side of the presses. i'm not on the side of their hin skinn thin-skinned. but the fact is the first amendment -- >> could you add whiny too? >> yeah. >> but the first amendment really is important. without the first amendment, this democracy doesn't survive as long as it has. we have had a pretty good run and because of the first amendment but this is a legitimate debate because here is how it must look to holder and obama, okay? major important stuff is being leaked by members of their administration. what they chose to do is find out where the phone calls are coming from so they looked through press phone calls to find out who inside the administration was talking to them. now, i think this is a

legitimate area of debate and i probably going to end up coming down on the side of the press not because they are whiny and complaining even because the first amendment is really important. on the other hand, if i'm obama or eric holder, i got a problem because my intelligence is being compromised. this is a tough issue. >> tough balance. >> it is a tough balance issue. >> okay. so question for you over something you just said earlier, steve, but to a point that was made earlier which i think is a bigger point here. there is this whole underworld, massive underworld off the record conversations that has gotten completely out of control and we all need to take a look within before we sit there and judge completely. >> that's true. a good point, mika. press themselves say let's go off the record when they want to know something and put it in the papers as unnamed source. that is crap. >> how dare you talk to me off the record. let me ask you this. you asked if bush was replaced in there. would they be reaching out and trying to deal with the press and trying to help them understand what happened there? >> probably would have been impeached already! >> i know.

>> oh, no. this is like -- i think this can be seen a couple of different ways which is why this conversation is so rich but i will say there is an article in theory eric holder and the administration are trying very hard to explain that, yes, we made a lot of mistakes. here is why we were doing what we were doing and they have to do it off the record because of obvious security concerns. >> but, steve, isn't it true, though, i founds this to be a great irony. these democrats that get swept into office by acclamatioacclam fawning members of the president, whether it was the clintons or the obama. for some reason, they are the most thin-skinned of all. the second the press actually starts doing their duty the day after, they help sweep them into office and get them elected. suddenly, these democrats that are used to having rose petals thrown at their feet for an entire campaign are stunned that the press actually wakes up and said, wait a second. we probably need to do our job now that they are running the

country. then they get thin-skinned and they are shocked! shocked! >> he is the beneficiary of the most positive press coverage in the history of presidential campaign. >> outrageous press coverage. >> the press in a lot of fundamental regards has not done the diligence on this administration that they have done on other administrations. and certainly in every instance, the president gets the benefit of the doubt. so when you look at the irs situation, for example, you know, the premise that nobody in the white house knew what was going on and there is no evidence in the white house directed it and i'm not sugge suggesting that there. if it was the bush administration, senior white house officials would not have gotten the benefit of the doubt. it would have been asserted that it was directed out of the white house. >> all right. >> by the way, let me say karl rove was twisting of the wind.

every friday for a summer, karl rove, we heard, oh, today is the day he is going to be indicted. when the press knew and fitzgerald knew it wasn't he, but a close associate of colin powell that leaked valerie plame's name. >> steve schmidt, thank you so much. ahead, bob mcdonald makes a surprising new announcement on voting rights in his state and he joins us straight ahead, along with naacp president ben je jealous. "news you can't use" is next. s ] no, no, no! stop! humans. one day we're coming up with the theory of relativity, the next... not so much. but that's okay -- you're covered with great ideas like optional better car replacement from liberty mutual insurance. total your car and we give you the money to buy one a model year newer.

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oh, my god. >> time for a little "news you can't use." as you know dennis rodman was the great ambassador of the united states to north korea. going places where no american had gone so much before. he spent quality time hanging over there with kim jong-un boy leader over there. this is called "vice" on hbo. they say the show wasn't a gimmick. they said dennis rodman was not their first choice for the mission. >> who was? richard holbrooke? >> good guess! >> any other?

>> bill richardson. >> he would be perfect for it. >> dr. brzezinski? >> my dad! >> they got rodman but who they wanted and reached out to was the greatest basketball player to ever live, michael jordan. the quote from the head of it, this project said jordan was not independence. >> yeah. >> good thing jordan didn't say yes. so we could be treated to some of this. >> when you said you loved kim and think he is awesome were you aware of his threats to destroy the united states and his rah jej regime to surrender the record on human rights? >> i don't understand what he is doing and couldn't condone that by saw people respect him and his family. >> aren't they forced to? >> i say no, because i think he is going to change something. he's a great guy. if you sit down and talk to him, perception.

>> -- >> a great guy who puts 200,000 peep in prison camps? >> it's amazing how we do the same thing here. >> we have prison camps in the united states? >> we don't but this is all politics, right? he loves basketball! i said the same thing. i said basketball. he want obama to do one thing. call him. >> he wants a call from president obama? >> that's right. he told me that. he said, if you can, dennis, i don't tell i don't want to do war. >> he said in the past he would destroy the united states. >> i just think that is coming from his father. >> but it sounds like you're apologizing for him. >> i'm not apologizing to him. he's a good guy to me. my friend. >> someone who is hypothetically is a murderer and is still a murderer. >> guess what? what i did, what i did, was history. >> jordan would never have worn that blazer. >> what the heck? >> no way. no way! >> that was like an online "snl"

thing, right? plis tell me. >> george stephanopoulos interviewing rodman. that is like interviewing triumph, in 2004. >> that was supposed to be funny. >> but karl was debating the dog. i went like this. t.j. did a split screen. that actually happened. trium triumph, the dog, do a split screen! bernstein is like this. >> i can understand after watching that clip why we are so upset taking ourselves so seriously with the attorney general. >> still ahead, the great tom hanks joins us on this very set to talk about his broadway play

"lucky guy." coming up, rahm emanuel. more "morning joe" when we come back.

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♪ live shot of new york city as the sun comes up over the big apple. welcome to "morning joe." the top of the hour. howard dean is still with us. joining is "time" managing

editor rick stengel. we will get to the new issue of "time." another good one in a moment. we will start with the news, though. attorney general eric holder is trying to make amends with the media but his efforts is being met with a tiny bit of resistance from the press. at the request of president obama, holder has agreed to meet with journalists this week as a part of his policy review of the d.o.j.'s leak investigations. however, "the new york times" associated press and "huffington post" will not attend because the justice department has asked for the meeting to be off the record. executive editor of "the times" jill abramson released a statement that reads in part, quote. it is inappropriate for us to attend an off the record meeting with the attorney general. our washington bureau is aggressively recovering the department's handling of leak investigations at this time. holder is also under heavy criticism from lawmakers who believe he may have committed

perjury during his may 15th testimony on capitol hill. >> with regard to the potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material, that is not something that i've ever been involved in, heard of, or would think would be a wise policy. >> just days after making that statement, of course, we learned about eric holder personally signing off on james rosen, that deal. jay carney yesterday rejected the claims that holder misled congress adding the president has confidence in holder's abilities as attorney general. >> howard dean said i don't want to look on twitter right now because they are going crazy. we are going on twitter. alex burns with politico and calls the press thin-skinned. what did matt lewis say? >> good man and good reporter. >> we love him. >> he loves jesus and america. >> governor dean to switch to

decaf for this morning. >> he is a right wing fruit loop too? >> that is a propaganda organization. >> we love him. >> he may be but i ready the detail caller. i know what is on there. you have conservatives and right wingers. the right wingers are all about propaganda. conservatives have a set of principles that don't happen to be the same as mine but they are reasonable and you can do business with them and how i differentiate that. >> i think it's a good point that howard makes. >> if only the right were as pure as the left when it came to the media. >> i grew up when the left had all of the crazies and today the right has all of the crazies, most of them. >> oh, my friend! i think they are evenly divided. you brought up a good point last hour about the policy behind this. this is a critical debate. of course, everybody loves the scandals and they love the chase. the press loves that. it's not just conservatives.

liberals when a republican president the press is sort of like everybody is chasing him but let's talk about the important policy underneath this. >> the thing about this one is the press is involved as a player here. >> by the way, you think this is the big one? >> i've always thought that. >> this is the most important one. the irs one is the red meat. >> the president didn't know anything about it. ben ghazi has basically been beat up. i don't know why the republicans keep pushing this. they have been doing it for a year. but this stuff, the subpoenaing the records of the press and/or listening to their phone calls -- or getting their phone calls, so forth, that's a serious issue. the interesting thing for me is, one, we have made the point the press is involved as a player in this so they are acting as a player and they are thin-skinned and outrageous and saying, blah, blah, blah. the nature of the debate is a

really important debate because the first amendment is absolutely critical to the future of any democracy and it straits a strong one from a weak one. the first thing parties do to take a democracy to be less democratic hugo chavez who was less democratically elected was take over the press that disagrees with him and shut them down. it's an important debate. on the other hand, you have the president of the united states who has a sworn obligation to uphold the national security. leaks coming out of the military being published in the press about sensitive negotiations with the cia is doing in afghanistan and he has to figure out how to stop those leaks to preserve national security. it's a very, interesting, difficult problem. >> it's fascinating. rick, obviously, off the record conversations happen all the time between the media and government and other entities but they do require a certain benefit of the doubt to have them, correct?

>> yes. >> yes or no some? agree with jill's point of view. >> does he receive that to have the off the record conversation? you could argue the attorney general is reaching out to help the press understand how they got to this play. >> i think it's the principle. the principle being we are covering this organization, this person and that we, our readers, we don't want something off the record. >> i have to say. hold on. don't you think six months ago they would have taken this meeting? >> possible. >> a lot of news organizations, a separate subject, have come to a new decision about being unnamed sources. they only use it in circumstances where it's absolutely impossible to get somebody on the record. i go back to what the governor was saying in terms of the press now. i'd be even more narrower about it. the supreme court has said in

bransburg versus hayes the only time you must force a journalist to reveal a situation is when there is no other possibility of getting that information any other way. in the case of the a.p. story, storms the it seems to me there were other ways to get the information what the justice department needed and wanted. it seems an unfortunate way to wrangling the press to get this information. >> let's skip. i'm going backwards here. you got a cover story on rahm emanuel. we will not go to that first because i know he is watching and we don't want to make his brother ari first. a very provocative piece in here and i love the title. why gitmo will never close. >> those are exclusive pictures we sent a photographer there for a week. mike crowley wrote the story. the item even if guantanamo were to close the problem is the idea

of guantanamo lives on. in other words, what happens to these prisoners, this one category of prisoners who have never been charged, who are suspected much being terrorists and who have -- are basically exempt from so much of constitutional law and what happens to them. they are prisoners, in theory going toward no matter where they are. whether in the continental united states or in guantanamo bay. >> howard dean, gitmo has been the vain of progressives since president bush -- >> many of them are still probably dangerous to the united states of america. here is the problem that any democracy has to live with. if we don't have a higher standard how do we set the example which we have set the last 200 years of what a good democracy should be like? so, unfortunately, while these guys, for the most part, pretty

awful, if we treat them the way they would be -- the way people get treated in their own country why are we better than their own country? that is the rub. >> if we shut down gitmo and send them to another country that treats them worse. >> here is what we are worried about. what happens if we shut down gitmo and take are sent to another country and they take up arms and killed other people. >> that has happened, 25%, 30%. >> i don't think it's quite that high but tsh. >> i'm a politician. could be 87 to 94% actually. >> gitmo never should have opened in the first place. i do think we have to close it because there are other ways to deal with these people. we ought to be able to send them to life without parole. >> the president said that last weekly. the war on terror like all wars has to end and one way it has to end is you treat the prisoners of that war the way you treat prisoners -- >> i'm not for nonviolence in

this area if we adopt the same methods as the people who we oppose, we are not going to be any better than they are and that is a problem. >> houvered, yward, you say we of the people at guantanamo are pretty awful. why don't we bring them up on charges? >> they are in a bind. in order to do that if you bring them to a civilian court they are entitled to cross-examine the witnesses and then you have to reveal the witnesses and you've revealed a whole lot of intelligence of your intelligence network and people get killed. americans get killed as a result that of or crab lators in iraq and afghanistan get killed. this is now that you open this, it's a noit mayor ightmare to t it closed. >> we have now ignored ari's brother long enough. a guy making tough choices on crime and he is making tough choices on kaeducation and not e

most popular guy in this sprawling center that is a nightmare to government. >> he is making a lot of tough decisions. he closed 50 schools. announced closing of 50 schools last week and the largest school closing than any stip. he says will affect chicago the next two or three decades and whether it will be the world class international city it should be. one of the things i said well is to be a good mayor in a city, you have to alienate people. he is not afraid to make enemies and he is making some enemies and doing things he would argue that the daly did not do because they sort of moved along to get along whereas he is making difficult choices that have to be made. >> what is surprising is the stats you guys bring up. 40% of chicago, the suburbs, haven't been affected at all by crime and haven't been affected by murders. the problem is in a small section of the southern and

western part of the city and, what, 5%, 10% of the property owners account for an overwhelming majority of crime. >> yes. in fact, we quote the police commissioner saying that it's even more microscopic than that. they have identified, i think 434 young men who are the particular causes of this problem and they want to isolate it. the murder rate did spike last year. i think they had 500 murders in 2012. this seemed kind of thing might even derail the mayoralty. he has focused it on like a laser and the murder rate has improved the last six months. but, again, it's a local problem. not a citywide problem. >> you mentioned the schools closing. that was a tough, ugly fight with the teachers union. has that relationship been aemeded at all? >> no. the stuff is that the teachers

union is causing rahm i wouldn't call my worst enemy. it's one of those tough choices because he would argue and i would argue this is the case that in the long-term benefit of education for kids in chicago is to close these underperforming schools. in the short term you have parents who feel like where is my son or daughter going to go? this school seemed to be okay but it's a very hard decision and as we know from new york city dealing with the teachers union is not easy. >> in the nation, in your nation section, the fascinating story about a party at war with itself over gun control. democrats strititrying to figur exactly where they are on guns. >> in a way rahm is symbolic of this. one of the things said in the story is rahm is taking on the

left wing of the democratic party and speaking of guns. a story not told a lot is the issue of guns in places like chicago is not about automatic weapons. it's about handguns. those murders are not committed with automatic weapons but with handguns. even the entire automatic weapon background check legislation in terms of how it affects chicago and urban areas, rahm would would say that doesn't really matter. >> for rahm, assault weapons don't matter and it is the handguns. the background checks and begun trafficking and it's critical. you hear staesks only 3% of people who commit crimes commit it with their own guns. let me ask you going back to the eric holder story because this is a story that howard dean wants to talk about for three hours. >> joe, i think you want to talk about. >> no, it's howard today. >> it's his vehicle to attack conservatives. >> right wingers.

i didn't attack conserve ifs but right wingers and there is a difference. >> was "time" magazine asked to do off the record meeting with eric holder? >> i don't know the answer to that to tell you the truth. >> is that off the record? >> i'm always on the record about things i don't know. >> you know what? i think, yeah, i think a lot of us have gotten calls from the attorney general's office and, ge again, interesting that jill abramson decides they are not going to meet with him and sends a big powerful message. >> then the associated press is following suit but many who are going to be there. "the washington post," among others, said they will be there. >> you look at the front page of the tabloids and we willy and i are very disappointed. >> why? >> because no anthony weiner stories. >> very serious mayor bloomberg got letters with ricin and some

threats pertaining to his position on guns. >> the fbi and nypd are investigating threats against the mayor after a letter containing ricin was sent to him. a similar letter which early tests indicatedin was sent to the doctor of mayors against illegal guns in washington, d.c. spokesman said the writer made threatening reports about the gun control. >> 12,000 people are going to get killed this year with guns and 19,000 are going to commit suicide with guns and we are not going to walk away from those efforts. i know i speak to a close to a thousand mayors in the coalition against guns this is a surge in the country we have to make sure we get under control and eliminate. >> wnbc has more details on the investigation. jonathan? >> the letters were sent to mayor bloomberg and preliminary

tests showed both tested positive for ricin. the first letter arrived here in new york on friday and was found at an off-side screening location before mail is delivered to city hall. tests came back yesterday confirming ricin. a second letter was sent to a lobbiest mark glaze who helps runs mayors against illegal guns the group campaigning with the mayor to change gun laws across the country. that letter was opened by mr. glaze. a white orangey substance came out and preliminary tests show that too is positive for ricin. mr. glaze did not fall ill, although two new york city police officers who reported to the incident felt some illness over the weekend but we are told they are now fine. the mayor says he will not be intimidated and he will continue this campaign. the fbi is investigating. we are told the letters were

mailed from shreveport, louisiana and contain during the time threats against the mayor warning no one is going to take our gun rights away. again, no suspect but the investigation very much under way. for "morning joe," i'm jonathan dienst. >> new ppp polls out this morning about background checks something we talked a lot about the last three or four months. these are southern states. georgia, 71% of voters there according to this poll support background checks and 67% in tennessee. 60% in the state of arkansas. so mantjorities across the sout there. >> no reason not to do a background check. it doesn't take away people's guns except like in the case of newtown don't get them. interesting one was mother got the gun and probably could have passed a background check. there is a disagreement where you should ban assault weapons but we have found common ground on background checks and now you

have to make them work. the cover story of "time" magazine, rick stengel, thank you very much. howard, thank you. still ahead a new study reveals more and more women are becoming the family bread winners but why aren't they earning as much as their male counterparts. our panel will discuss up next. up next, virginia governor mob mcdonald offers a big change to the voters. he is coming up along with ben jealous. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. efs efs for charity, to prove that with soft fabric and waistband, the best protection looks, fits, and feels just like underwear. get a free sample and try for yourself. where over seventy-five percent of store management started as i'm the next american success story. working for a company

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." live look at washington, d.c. on this sunny morning. joining us now from richmond, virginia. virginia's republican governor, bob mcdonald's. bob is for jobs. president of the naacp ben jealous. mike barnicle and brian shactman

join the table as well. >> bob is for jobs is better than bobs for felons. come on! bob, what is going on here? governor, what is going on? this seems counterintuitive here. what is up? is this a trick? >> well, no, first the good news is the unemployment rate is down to 5.2% so we are still for jobs here in virginia, joe. >> 5.2. >> listen. we are a nation of second chances. we believe in redemption and restoration. our rate in virginia is down to 23%. we have able to have a prison re-entry system and get people fully integrated into society. what i announced yesterday is once somebody has done their probation or parole and incarceration and paid their fines and costs and don't have any pending charges we will automatic restore their voting rights and civil and constitutional rights. get them fully reintegrated into society and be a law abiding

citizen and that will decrease the chance to commit new crimes. i think the right thing to do. >> why did you decide to take this step? >> i've been working on this a couple of years. i've restored more rights than any governor in virginia history and improving the system and getting responses in oef days. we try to get a constitutional amendment passed this session with republican and democrat support to automatic restore the rights and that failed and so because of that, i'm using the power i've got as the chief executive under the constitution to automatically restore rights on individual basis for nonviolent felons and a lot of people now will be able to vote and be notary publics and hold office and have their gun rights restored in virginia. >> ben juealous, you call it a courageous step. >> bob and i worked on this for about three years. it's not important if you agree on all things but one thing. important you can come together on. >> why is this so important?

>> this is like a hundred thousand people who got their rights restored yesterday minimum. it could go up to 200,000. virginia is one of two states in the country with a constitutional lifetime ban if you're ever convicted of a felon and the notion what have is a felony has expand is since it was put in place but it was put in place to suppress the black vote. mr. glass, delicate to the 1901 constitutional convention said, i quote, because of this plan the darky will be eliminated as a factor in our state's politics in the next five years. this was literally the last standing leg of the jim crow suppression strategies. this governor came out in january and said it's time for us to overturn this. they push it through the senate. it got stopped in the house so he came out yesterday and said, look. i'll do what i can do and we are talking about a hundred thousand to 200,000 virginians black and

white getting their voting rights restored. we believe in second chances and we believe that voting a right, not a privilege, but a right. >> mike? i. oo governor, what do they have to do? once you've signed a bill, restored their voting rights, but what do they have to do once they get out of jail? do they have to adhere to anything? do they have to fulfill probation requirements before they vote? what do they have to do? >> first of all, i have eliminated the waiting period we previously established of two years from the ends of probatioprobatio probation, parole, or incarceration. we will be able to get records from the state police department of corrections. there won't be an application process so i can do it by the power that i have as the executive under the constitution. we are saying you've paid your debt to society and incarceration, probation or parole is done and you've paid

your costs to fines and rest ugs contusi -- restitution you have possess have most pending penalties, your rights will be restored. you have to be able to give your consent for a vote. this is about participation and democrats through t democracy. i think it's time for them to get back in society so full participants in our society. >> joe, you asked why this takes courage and quite frankly i asked governor kaine doing the same thing and he wouldn't do it. when you talk to the folks in politics the dems is safe on crime. republicans say we think most will vote for the democrats and takes somebody to stand up and say a principle is a principle. it's a principle whether it's good or bad for us or bad or good for my career. if we believe in second chances i'm going to do it because it's

the right thing and that is what the governor did yesterday and why it's so important. >> governor, you, obviously, heard from republicans who didn't think this was such a great idea, right? >> well, some, but listen. i know for 22 years, we have been tough on crime in virginia p.m. i . i'm a former prosecutor. this is a tough place to commit crimes in virginia but, at the same time, joe, once your sentence is done, justice then also requires you to be reintegrated into society and i think our strategy of tough punishment accompanied with prisoner re-entry and restoration of rights is up with of the reasons virginia has one of the lowest crime rates in the nation and i think that is right balance to have justice here in america. >> how is the virginia race going right now? there's been a little back and forth, you are being investigated and a little poking and jabbing back and forth.

some sharp elbows down there say you're a liberal because you signed a transportation bill. how is that working out for you? >> it's fine. i'm strongly reporting the republican ticket. >> the gubernatorial candidate? he has been my lawyer three years and a good lawyer. you don't agree on everything but the reagan analogy if you agree with me 80% of the time you're my friend. we have done good things in virginia on jobs and schools and on managing the budget. we have had surpluses and road fixed and pension system fixed. we have to have a republican ticket. ken will be a good governor. >> what does it say about our party? jeb bush and i were saying a couple of years ago, geez when we ran, we were considered conservative and now you get all of these people thinking -- back when you ran four years ago you were considered conservative. i mean, the curve is like

bending really fast! like, you know, you didn't make it out of a term without people saying you were a rhino, a liberal. >> ken and i see things pretty much the same way. he is going to run a campaign very much like i did to win and that is focusing on kitchen table issues and focusing on jobs, economic development, schools, roads, the kind of campaign he'll run. people said i was too conservative. you're right, four years ago when i got 59% of the vote. that is the model for winning in virginia. it's a swing state. got to appeal to the independents to win but i'm still a conservative and i'm governing like that today. >> 5.2% is pretty good. >> that is great. bob mcdonald and ben jealous, thank you. tomorrow on "morning joe," former governor jon huntsman is joining us. coming up today, actor tom hanks will be here on set. and later possible costas is

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mormon and any accused male mule? she is in a mexican jail accusing of trying to smuggle marijuana from a mexican town to arizona aboard a bus. she and her gary were returning home after a funeral for her aunt a week ago and the bus was stopped and they found marijuana under her seat. they are accused mexican authorities of a setup and her husband just wants it to end. >> it is so bizarre. down here and so different that we are not used to it and this process and it's just -- we just want it to be over and we are thankful for everybody's support. just keep everything keep on making this a lie so people can give us their support so she can be free. she's an innocent woman. i love my wife dearly and can't wait for her freedom. >> maldonado cast doubt on whether the drugs were on the

bus. family members are hopeful maldonado will be freed soon. now a check on the weather with bill karins. apparently severe flooding in the midwest. bill? >> day after day, bout of thunderstorms one after another. check out these pictures from carl sandberg community college in galesberg, illinois near the peoria area. retaining wall must have gave way and water came pouring in. record floods on the tributaries about leading to the big rivers and talk about big nothing to do in the week aid ahead on the major rivers. we will be lucky if we don't have any fatalities this week. good news. we made it through last night. we had 23 estimated tornadoes and a lot in nebraska and a few in texas and oklahoma. no injuries and no fatalities. but a lot of wind damage and hail damage out there through the midwest. we are going to do it all over

again today. as far as the worst of it we are definitely watching now the heavy rain once again going up into the saturated areas, especially here from missouri to iowa. as far as the severe weather goes even chicago a chance of storms. area of yellow risk of severe storms and maybe isolated tornadoes including st. louis and all of the flood zone. one to two inches of rain and if you're caught under the thunderstorms possibility of 4 inches of rain. the headlines next week, the mississippi river, major flood. we are talking the possibility of a top five all-time flood. these records go back over a hundred years in the st. louis area. so that will be the story next week. we have to make it through two or three more days here of tornadoes and then we are going to deal with flooding next week. >> bill, thank you. up next, more women are becoming the family bread winners. why aren't they earning as much that is air male counterparts. we will discuss that coming up. we will be right back.

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read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal. here with us now is joanna coles and gilliant tett is back with us and catherine rampell. she writes in part women are not only more likely to be the primary care givers in a family and increasingly primary bread winners too. 4 in 10 american households with children under age 18 now include a mother who is either the sole primary earner for her family. the share has quadrupled since

1960. the shift reflects evolving family academics. catherine, let's start there. the dynamics are not great. >> not necessarily they are making more. an individual woman is making more than she did 40 years ago. really what the data is showing more household are being headed and relied on by em wayne whether or not their actual earnings are going up. for the most part, they probably are. at least in raw numbers. but the issue is that there are a lot more single moms out there. many, many more single moms and a lot more kids are being important to single women and often to women who were never married but -- i'm sorry, children being raised by divorced or separated moms. you also have a rising share of wives who earn more than their husbands. still pretty small by surprising.

>> you have single moms is one issue and rise in bread winners in the family unit in females. it has to do with the way men are leaving the work force. >> at the low end of the economic spectrum what you're seeing is a very alarming situation where a large number of men are dropping out of high school and essentially becoming unemployeeab unemployable. that is very bad. the social stability and essentially what women in many of those community are saying is that men are becoming unmarriageable. >> fantastic. >> further up, you're seeing well-educated women who have degrees and done very well and starting to get jobs that their mothers couldn't have dreamt up. their husband are not working and they may be outearning them.

>> joanna coles, let's go there and cut through it. really have a conversation here about the die namics that play here. >> i thought interesting shifts for marriage we have seen the last 2,000 years. women are asking themselves if you earn more than a man what is the man there for? as catherine said a lot of people think men are unmarriageable. we hear this all the time and we know more women at college now than there are men. 62% of women in college and still not getting to the leadership positions they should be in the work force. so there are a lot of unresolved issues and i went back and looked at the pew research ten years ago and five years ago and

you can see this strong creeping trend which is clearly going to continue. >> you ask the question like what are they there for. i wonder sometimes. >> there are many things. >> shouldn't the answer be coparenting? shouldn't it be running a household and planning the family's future? i don't understand why that is the question. >> men are stepping up to some extent certainly. we talked about this before. the last time i was on the show actually there was a baby on and i think you asked joe to change the diaper. >> yes. >> it didn't work out. >> it didn't work out in that one case. men are stepping up and taking on more household chores and more child care but women are still taking on the majority of those duties. >> interesting actually who you become married is the biggest influencer in your career if you're a woman that wants a job. whether or not you can pass the baton back and forth and whether or not you can have a 50/50

relationship which as we know sheryl sandberg talks about in her book "lean in," but the indicator you'll be successful as a woman. i think a lot of women feel if i earn more and the husband is not pulling his way, bye-bye. >> you remember in the e'80s yo had the movie "mr. mom," with michael keaton. >> if you want to be optimistic about this, you could say that we live in a time of great economic uncertainty. the idea that sheryl sandberg says having a career ladder is outdated and everyone is living with a jungle gym. we have to be creative how we think about our lives and how we are going to earn money and nobody has permanent job security any more. actually two people doing what joe says and actually having a situation where you pass the crib back and forth for part of your life maybe one is earning

more and one the other and you work together as a team and that can be celebrated if it works. sadly, for many families, it doesn't seem realistic right now. >> i'm not sure people are ready for it. >> it's also interesting. if you ask men and women why they are not working men will say because i couldn't find a job. if you ask a woman, she will say i can't because i have children or looking after parents. the stress on the primary care givers and increasingly becoming the bread winners. >> i think the pressure we put on ourselves in society. if we could put up the poll up again as people think is best for the kids. better if mom stays at home. 51%. are we really still here? >> that is an extraordinary reduction if you compare what is going on 60 years ago. 60 years ago 85% of people thought women shouldn't be in

the workplace. when "cosmopolitan" was started the phrase of having it all because the idea of having a home life and a job seemed impossible. now we take it for granted. if you can get a job, you have to do a job you have to do it. >> especially since women are much more likely to go to college and the way the economy is changing having a college degree is much more important for getting a job and holding it down. by necessity women have to pick up the baton and bring home the bacon. >> for me many women are copeers by nature. it is really how the men respond. joe -- >> you are not saying much. >> there should be more men in the battle right now. >> but the thing is and i think this is a radical change. you know, men, the whole thing

about the cave man in the cave going out and slaying the dinosaur and coming back. we have the idea of how men are supposed to act and women are supposed to act. i am 50 years old now. one foot back in the old world you three are sort of part of that world. things are much different for you, i would say and i have a 9-year-old daughter. when she starts thinking about getting ma getting married i will say if you want to go in the workforce fantastic. i want you to do that but before you marry the man you better make sure he is fine with you making more money than him. i think it's a brave new world now. and i think men in their 20s who unfortunately i think are weak and stay at home and play video games and are weak, weak, weak and unmarriable --

>> no good men out there. >> there are no good men throughout? >> there are a few. >> other than my son and his friends. that conversation has to be had before a woman marries a man. >> i think that conversation doesn't happen that often to be honest. i'm at an age where a lot of my friends are getting married and having kids. i have seen them struggle with these conversations because they didn't have them when they got married. the question of who stays home with the kids. some have the luxury of being able to afford nannies but don't. i think there is this assumption that all of this debate has already been worked out. the feminists waves and waves before us have figured it out. >> it is not if you want to go out in the workforce, it is when. >> but if you are in a situation

where you are going to make -- you think you are going to make more money than your male spouse you better have that talk before you get married to make sure he can handle. >> i worked where women have no options. for women to have the option to look after themselves and their children and work is a wonderful luxury and we should celebrate that. you can walk away from a relationship if it is not working and that is fabulous. >> that is part of the reason why divorce rates are up because women are more independent. >> fascinating. you can catch a profile on "cosmopolitan" magazine on "rock center" tomorrow on nbc. still ahead tom hanks is in the house. we will ask him about his play

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this is really exciting. >> you must be a lucky guy. >> i'm a huge fan. >> that is not a wig. that was actual hair. that was the style of the 1980s. i want to see what joe looked like in 1980.

>> we'll find you some pictures. >> it was just an angry drag queen from "kinky boots" which is also up for a tony. >> that is the pilot. >> are you going to come in here? >> that's it, kids. >> thanks for having me on the show. you will have dozens of viewers by having me here. >> look at this. he owns the place. >> tom hanks will be on set. straight ahead. (cat purring) mornings are a special time for the two of you... and you can make them even more special... with fancy feast mornings. mornings are delicious protein-rich entrées... with garden veggies and egg.

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what's your story? >> i am a newspaper reporter and i love my job. and i'm doing god's work. i'm serving the public. >> some day you are going to have your own column. >> you really think so? because i swear to god that's all i've ever wanted. writing a column? in new york city? everything else is second place. and you think it might happen? >> i do. >> when it does that will be a fact. jeez. i got a wife and a kid. you left that out of the story. >> so did you. >> that was tom hanks in "lucky

guy." the play is nominated for six tony awards including best play and best leading actor. >> i'm just trying to act like -- whenever i see you on the morning show you guys are doing this kind of stuff. i'm trying to keep up with with everything that is going on. >> would you like a coffee. >> i saw your hair. >> thank you very much. >> every night on the play we do one of those british morning news where we hold up the tabloid and all the new yorkers have already read the headlines so they are commenting. only the tourists don't get it. >> the greatest gift of the new york post is anthony weiner. >> even anthony weiner. >> i'm glad we hit that reference point. >> do you know -- have you

decided to do this play before norra? >> yeah. >> you were going to do this regardless? >> luckily without any preconceived negotiation. nora and i had talked about it and i'm glad we exchanged that said literally i'm in let's do it. i got an e-mail back that said one word, yea. we knew it was going to happen. >> she kept her illness such a secret. how early did you know? >> that she was sick? >> 48 hours before we lost her. >> all of us who were close to her got very, very little warning. ten days before we lost her we had an exchange with her. we were supposed to have dinner like two weeks earlier. she said i can't. if you need to know my dears i'm

in the hospital and i'm very sick. it went to a silence after that. >> she was amazing in that she was always petite. she was always fascinating. she was also very well put together and always ate three bites of the most delicious meal that put in front of her so we noticed nothing. >> she lived a full life. an extraordinary life. let's talk about "lucky guy." it is just classic nora. journalism, a love story. she talks about wanting to be in journalism and she knew nothing. >> i have a line that is exactly what nora felt. she always knew she would live in a city and work for a newspaper. she never knew which one. she ended up at new york post. >> it was a liberal newspaper. and she was among the first

women to arrive there. >> she was a young girl that she complained had to go cover the arrivalbeetatlebeatles. i swear i hear her scream a question or more of a demand. she yells sing something. and then paul says we have to pay us money first. >> i have known since i was a child that i was going to live in new york eventually and everything in between would be an intermission. she says i knew it would be a place where if you really wanted something you might be able to get it, a place where i might be able to become the only thing

worth being a journalist and i turned out to be a writer. >> that is someone who grew up in beverly hills, california. the daughter of screen writers, highly regarded established in the way studios worked back then. >> the other thing is in new york there wasn't a taxi that moved or restaurant that opened or a scandal that began that she didn't know about before anyone else did. i don't care where it was in the city, upper east side west side, downtown. she knew what was going on. >> she was hot. a young nora ephron in town cause hot. >> tell us about the character you play? >> mike is probably known by some people. i have spoken to people who said he was the greatest in the world and some said i hated him. there was a thing that he said which says writing a column in

new york city, everything else is second place. he wanted to be a guy that you read his column and talked about for the rest of the day. he wanted to be the subject of did you hear what he wrote today. sometimes he was and sometimes he wasn't. i talked to some friends whose dad worked in the police department in the public relations division. they said my dad hated mike with every fiber of my being. >> he wanted to be what everybody else wanted to be. >> he wanted to be the be all and end all. >> i knew him pretty well. talked to him a lot. talked to nora about him. >> love him? like him? hate him? >> he was a complex guy who became more complex. to see the play is a vivid, vivid portrait of who he was. and as tom just said he's the

kind of guy who would miss a subway stop in order to see if anybody was reading them. >> i have notes that were sent to me -- the columnist, a guy wrote a book in which it is only two sentences long but such an obscene note i couldn't repeat it on the air. he didn't like the book. >> that's fair. >> he let the guy know. >> talk about the parallels between the end of his life and nora knowing they might be dying. some people said this is therapy for nora. >> i think nora lived. the work i always did was sort of ripped right out of today's behavior. not necessarily the headlines.

certainly i'm sure that she felt some degree of kinship. she read his obituary in '98 and said this is a fascinating life. george wolf had no idea she was sick. i'm sure there are some lines about in the second act of the play is literally what nora was going through as far as doctor's offices and hospital visits. >> i wonderer how the actors do it in general because it is so emotionally and physically exhausting, twice a day, six days a week. has this especially, emotionally draining to an extent? >> there are 14 of us that share the experience every night. it is a little bit like the basketball tip off. you don't know where it is going to take you. but the power of what george wolf has been able to tame in all of us and also where the

play goes from first act to final curtain really takes us there. there is no small amount of professional show business know how that goes on. i sound like james brown this morning. >> you look exhausted. >> thank you. because i am. and my voice is stressed. by the time i get to 8:00 or 7:00 tonight i will be pumped up and a little more relaxed and will have done the things that an actor has to do. >> i don't want to be oprah here but i think it is -- >> you know what, then you just lost dozens of viewers. they turn to you to be in touch with their feelings. >> we are down to three. i asked you about nora and whether or not this was therapy for her. what about you? it seems this would be a great

opportunity for you to hold on to that relationship a little bit longer. >> no small part about wanting to do it was to hang with nora. it is a great way to spend time. no lie i hear nora constantly. everybody has some very specific noraism. the affection and love that we had for her and the relationship i had with her does continue. >> do you dread, have you thought about closing night? saying good bye to this part? >> that will be a tough night i think for everybody. >> she talks about hanging with nora. we actually were going to pitch a show with nora. she said i can't come back. and i said why can't you come back. she said i'm in malta and we are waiting two days for a part to

come in for the plane. i said that is a way to live, nora. that is a big excuse. that beats i have to take the kids to the baseball game. she was great. >> name the food stuff. she would track down the best of whatever it was anywhere. >> she is in my book. >> i was there the night the guy was putting the sign up. i really thought i was in on it very early, luke's lobsteres. the next day i said to nick, nora's husband. before he could ask me where she said luke's. >> she would say things like have you not had the celery from dell monaco pavilions? >> i'm looking at you waving that comb. >> i was handed to it.

>> that really crystallizes my question right there. you are at the top of the list. >> of? >> most trusted person. what is this? sandra bullock. denzel. where is the president? >> 65. but tom hanks number one. >> who is the top politician on that list? is it number 65. >> i was going to say barack obama. i wouldn't say john boehner. >> that's weird. you offense. you seem like a nice guy. >> how can i monetize this? is there a way to put money in my pocket? is there a way to cash out? >> i like the way you think. >> we are all worried about you going broke. >> for the record don't get too excited about this.

actually judge judy more trusted than any member of the supreme court. >> i voted for her. >> would you mess with judge judy? >> no. >> the whole thing is done in like 40 minutes, too. >> everything can be worked out in about 40 minutes. >> to your point about nora having three bites of the greatest meal ever put before. if we were having dinner about a month before she died. if you sit next to her at dinner you can't eat because she is so curious and intergates you all during dinner. >> she does a thing we have stolen. she would sidle up to me and say i'm thinking of one of these questions. she would have three fascinating questions. i would go over and say number two. and eventually i can see her over there, the conversations. when there would be a lull there

would be the okay. it's time to have one conversation. and the question of the night is who is to blame for blank. and then the next three hours would be animated conversation. >> remember the night we had dinner in los angeles and she said who is the biggest sob you met? the host was not crazy about this kind of dinner table thing. she said i want everybody at the table to describe the house in which you grew up. it lit up the room for the next 90 minutes. people told things that they didn't know about them. >> we would write down our first paying job and then someone would read it and you had to vote on who they thought it was. the most mysterious one was working in a lady's hand bag factory. it turned up nick. his first job was delivering materials. >> much more interesting than

barnacle which is pass the pepperoni. >> that is our dinner party conversation. >> i love it. tom brokaw, you have interesting projects coming up that pertain to the greatest generation. can you tell us about it? >> i want to pay tribute to my friend tom hanks because we have been joined at the hips since "saving private ryan" came out. he has been an extraordinarily supportive member of his generation for all things world war ii including the world war ii museum in new orleans where we spent a lot of time. when i am doing discovery channel has something called the military channel and have opened the brokaw files. we have gone back to the archives. tonight at 10:00 on the military

channel i am on the uss stens for 48 hours. it's a nuclear powered aircraft carrier in the war zone at the time. i go off the deck for six hours over afghanistan in the back seat on a mission, take off and land which is an entirely terrifying experience. saw 5,200 people from the most ordinary seaman to an admiral working together 24/7 in a combat zone. it never stops and it is a very complicated piece of machinery. planes are leaving and arriving. they have to feed everybody. they have 12 garage bands that play. >> how many people are on board that ship? >> 5,200. >> that is about the size of dalheart, texas. >> there was a group charged with maintaining the point when

they came back they get underneath them. it is like a lube job and oil change. two women, three other guys as i remember. different ethnicity. they are a family. they spent all day together, eight or nine hours. they go down into a sleeping quarters not as large as this desk. then their social setting is a card table. they get out lap tops and open it up and share pictures and online education that they are doing. not one of them turned to the other one and said are you a member of the tea party? are you from a blue state or red state? it is get the job done. >> i am struck a dozen years later about the lasting impact of "band of brothers" i'm sure people still come up to you and talk about that. >> it was part of the power that steven ambrose was able to

capture. i remember we had a meeting with the guys who were running hbo at the time and we were fighting for the right in order to show it in the full frame, the full aspect. they said it is a problem with band width and a budget issue. everybody else who works at hbo is going to want to do the same thing. we might as well do it because this is the last time anyone is going to make a mini series like this. now everybody is doing it. we certainly broke the bank on it. i have done it a couple of times. i did it on "apollo 13", "saving private ryan" in a motion picture you get to go into a story and go as deep as 2 1/2 hours will allow you. when hbo gave us ten hours of time in order to go deeper you get into the details that are

much more recognizable to the average folks. instead of seeing mythical icons on screen they see folks that look like their dads or brothers or then. >> how extraordinary did jeffbuke s at the time who made the decision he told us a story asking you guys asking how much it would cost. he said he sort of walked out of the room and called his dad. part of the greatest generation. his dad goes do it. what a risk but it changed everything. hbo stopped being about showing old movies and great steve martin standup routines and started being about doing these huge projects. >> it ends up being like a very big novel that plays out over the course of ten hours. it does become a sort of thing that everybody stays home to watch at 9:00 on sunday nights. >> i don't think i have told you

this but when 9/11 happened i went home at 9:00 in the morning. i was eemotionally and physically drained. i hit the television and "band of brothers" was playing. it got me through the next week. i would watch that and be deeply moved again. i kept thinking if they can do that we can do this. it had that impact. >> we were worried because it premiered before 9/11 and continued after. we thought no one would want to watch more of this and it turned out to be a bit of a tonic for the time. >> don't you think part of the magic of that series "band of brothers" is that really technically emotionally in terms of story telling it is not a war movie. it is a story of the lawyer from illinois who becomes a captain in the army or the school teacher or young kid who

graduated from high school. >> i always wanted to come down to the human tactile things that everybody could understand. i said please find one of the veterans talking about how cold it was. everybody can remember how cold they were. we found an old guy even come christmas time it might be cold outside but it's not as cold as -- oh, my god. everybody can understand what it's like to be outside and not be warm. >> unbelievable. i remember sitting in my home in florida watching. i was like when the hell are they going to breakthrough? i'm freezing my ass off watching this. when you made a decision when you did the pacific. the good guys got killed like the guys you were rooting for got killed. we weren't tearing up.

you made a conscious decision and of course tb wasn't as easy to raise the flags and rally around. looking back, are you glad you made the decision? >> by all means. it is no longer about the victory. it is about the experience. it is no longer about saving the planet which in today's troubled times is hard to comprehend. we wanted to show that these people were literally just like us even no matter the gender who were a long way from home and had no idea when they were going to get back. the counter point that we were able to use is that eugene sledge who wrote probably the greatest war combat memory that existed went through two

hellaceous and never was scratched. he came back and there was nothing wrong with him other than what was going on in his memories. a guy going through that and coming through brings up all the vagaries of the human condition that was about five years that i think you can take anybody right now and say the five years from 1940 to 1945 memorable, affecting pieces of history. you can say the same thing about 2003 to 2008 for somebody else. >> there was a member of "the band of brothers" who became a prosecutor. he came back. i was in los angeles. i didn't know about his world war ii experience. i had a friend of ours played on the ucla baseball team with him bh he was younger. buck comes back. he was a catching before he went away and was going to be a catcher again. they are in the locker room or

shower. there is a big scar on his fanny. they said buck, how did you get that? he said i sat the wrong way. he had been shot. >> buck was humiliated by that wound because he was in the hospital with guys who were truly horribly maimed and were never going to go anywhere and he says i got shot in the ass. >> the play "lucky guy" is showing at the broad hurst theatre in new york. visit luckyguyplay.com. >> pick up tabloids. >> are you going to get rid of the mustache? >> on the 4th of july. >> i shaved off david axelrod's mustache. right there. it was to raise money.

maybe i could help you out. >> i don't know if you guys work on -- >> i'm not bad at it. >> i'll be somewhere else on the 4th of july. >> it will look better. >> tom brokaw, thank you, as well. >> the most trusted man in america. coming up next the runner up bob costas is here. bob has more details on penn state. more "morning joe" straight ahead. vo: traveling you definitely end up meeting a lot more people but

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mr. free has been named as someone who was a cooperating individual, a coconspirator in this lawsuit. >> we have given a lot more allowance to louis fry than he did to joe paterno and the other people he named in his report. we don't know what his motivations were. we just know he got it wrong. >> that was the attorney for the paterno family on "costas tonight" last night. joining us now the coast of "costas reports", bob costas. >> happy to be on. this may be and this is an ancient reference, the worst trade since febrock. exit tom brokaw. exit hanks. enter costas. in the overall this is not good. >> we will take costas any day

of the week. you have been on the paterno story. talk about the show last night and the paterno family pushing back on the ncaa. >> my feeling is this. a number of people, not just the people at the fringes, there are always people at the fringes of every issue, a number of credible people are taking issue with the free report. most people have read about it but haven't read the report itself. the former pennsylvania governor issued a review that was highly critical. the family hired him. criticisms have come from other directions. >> what is thornburg's criticism? >> the basic criticism is while there are individual flaws in the report that he assigned motivations especially to

paterno that were pure conjecture. first and foremost in order to avoid consequences of bad publicity that paterno knowingly covered up sandusky's on going abuse of children whereas the paterno family and others would contend there were signs here that might have been missed. it is when all of the pieces of the puzzle have been put together many years down the roadt that we see the full mark of sandusky's heinous activities and paterno was unaware of it at the time and would have had no reason to engage in this kind of coverup. too many people knew about it for a cover up to have existed. if there was an on going cover up. >> do you agree with that? >> i agree -- >> do you understand where they are coming from?

>> i felt they were deserved to be heard. the report came out. the penn state board accepted it. ncaa handed down harsh penalties. penn state accepted it. now there is pushback. i'm not sure which side is right. probably neither side is 100% right. i'm sure the other side deserves a hearing. >> isn't the problem here the fact that they have a chain of e-mails. paterno is not in the middle of it. >> paterno didn't use e-mail. >> he seems to be above it. i don't think nick sabin would be writing e-mails about this either. all we have is conjecture. paterno says we report it to the athletic director. this guy was penn state. it is hard to take away over 100 victories based on that

conjecture. we are in a tough position. >> they are going to contend the ncaa overstepped their bounds. they are concerned with paterno's legacy that he led a virtuous life for the most part and what happened at the end we can debate. was he guilty of a moral failure despite the virtues or was it something less than that as representatives contend that in retrospect he wishes he acted more proactively but at the time he only had a vague understanding of what sandusky was about. >> you agree with with many people who knew paterno well. their contention is if you knew joe paterno, a virtuous man, a religious man, the idea of an underling going to joe paterno and explaining in graphic detail what was going on they wouldn't

do it. they didn't want to shock him. >> mike mcquery, the assistant coach who reported the incident in 2001 with sandusky and one victim said he spared paterno some of the graphic details out of respect for paterno's age and position and gave more graphic testimony to the grand jury and in the sandusky trial itself. out of 48 counts sandusky was found guilty on 45. one of the three he was not found guilty of was the incident in the shower which mcquery reported to paterno and paterno subsequently reported to the higher ups. where i come down on this and have said several times before paterno was never charmged. likely had he lived he never would have been charged. if he was charged almost certainly he would have been exonerated. we hold joe paterno to a higher

standard. if any of us knew only this we knew there was an investigation in 1998 even though no criminal charges came out of it. now we hear something that would have creeped us out that happened in 2001. whether or not there was a rape that took place, he is showering with a boy after hours in a university building. if you knew only those two things about a person, wouldn't you disassociate yourself from that person? wouldn't you say i run this football program. he doesn't have an office here anymore. he doesn't have premium football tickets anymore. >> he was on the sidelines with the boys which for me, how could paterno not look down the sidelines and see sandusky and put those things together? it is all conjecture. you wonder how -- >> could he have known everything in the grand jury report? that is not realistic. did he know the full extent of

sandusky's on going activities? i don't think so. those things would have set off alarm bells for most of us to say jerry sandusky no longer sets foot on our property and no longer can use any of the prestige of penn state in connection with his own name. >> based on what you said obviously the responsibility has to be some on paterno. this is not just about his legacy and about how the school is now and the football program. we put up a full screen of the penalties, four year probation, 100 plus wins, $60 million, scholarships. is there any chance of any of that changing? >> according to the attorney for the paterno family there is a possibility of a settlement. >> the school got crushed on this. >> the school got crushed and the board at penn state is going to be held to account to some extent for accepting the penalties. and there is going to be a claim that they didn't follow up on

their fiduciary penalties. if you all allowing to settle with them you are acknowledging guilt and shelling out more than $100 million and they may claim that wasn't a responsible exercise of their duties. >> you talked about guns famously. it is obviously an issue that means an awful lot to you, right? >> in retrospect i didn't have as much time as i needed to get into the nuances. as a matter of technique i think i could have done better. if i could have rewritten it i could have said if we are looking for perspective on an issue like this. you always hear this puts it in perspective and no one retains perspective after the next play is run. so what i should have said if we

are looking for illusive perspective we are going to have to look at the issue of domestic violence. the effects of football we know it has cognitive effects and has led to tragedies. what about in the short term? does it increase aggression. does it have an impact on impulse control? what aboutt the relationship between athletes and guns? not talking about second amendment rights. guns are proliferating in sports. the head of the nfl players association sent me a hand written note thanking me for what i said. if you talk to roger goodell and david stern, you ask them would you better off if all of your players were lawfully armed or if none of them were armed ever you know they would take choice b because you have a lot of guys carrying guns as a misplaced

symbol of manhood or street cred. almost never does anything good come out of it and often tragedy and folly comes out of it. that was the larger point i was trying to make. i think some of what i said was misinterpreted as a broad side against the second amendment. >> thank you so much. you can catch "costas tonight" on the nbc sports network. >> wasn't he so much better than tom brokaw and hanks? >> i think so. >> this was a trade that turned out very well. >> if i spend for me maybe a year growing a mustache, can i come back? >> would you shave his mustache? >> i want to see it. >> if you do it for charity. >> you name the charity. i can't grow a mustache. >> it would take five years to

grow it. >> you don't have the guts. >> you know, i put myself in a very bad spot. >> thank you so much for being with us. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪ [ agent smith ] i've found software that intrigues me. it appears it's an agent of good. ♪ [ agent smith ] ge software connects patients to nurses to the right machines while dramatically reducing waiting time. [ telephone ringing ] now a waiting room is just a room. [ static warbles ] ♪ there you go. come on, let's play! [ male announcer ] there's an easier way to protect your dog from dangerous parasites.

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here's your wake up call. [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? [ crows ] now where's the snooze button? . let's go to brian sullivan. how are we looking? jobless claims up? down? >> i want to say that i give up trying to understand this market. futures are indicating a higher open. jobless claims were above expectations in a bad way. last week was revised up to where it would have been worst. gdp was revised down because of sequester. economic news is far from good but the futures indicate a higher open again. i want to be on the record as i

officially give up trying to understand what is happening on the stock market. >> i thought he was giving up on us. >> you are all i have to live for. i can't give up on that. >> he can't quit us. >> i can't quit you, joe. >> you didn't have to say that. isn't this usually a bad sign when you have the market exploding to levels that just don't reflect the realities of main street? we have seen this before. we saw it in the '80s. we saw it in the late '90s. we saw it in 2008. >> the federal reserve has insured the stock market of success by one thing. my father is 73 years old. he has no place to put his money except for stocks. bonds are yielding. the technical term is stock. the federal reserve has crushed the savers. the older people who want to save money have a safe

consistent income, they have nowhere to put their money except the stock market. you look at at&t, i'm not plugging the stock. they yield 6%. that is triple what bonds yield. the federal reserve has done a good job of making sure the wealthy have gotten wealthier. if you can buy a home or buy stocks you are doing just fine under this federal reserve because there is no single option for you to go to if you want to save money and get a slight return on it. >> let's get brian sullivan teaching the common man about economics. he introduces a classic economic term first introduced in 1776, squat. >> brokeback economy. >> what? he is not a role model just so you know. >> trouble maker. keep it here on "morning joe." we shall return. story. working y where over seventy-five percent of store management started as

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on the show tomorrow john huntsman will be here on set. what did we learn today? we'll find out up next.

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we are good. >> go. >> get off. >> what did you learn? >> i need some alcohol. >> tom hanks mustache. >> that was gross. >> if it is way too early. under pressure facing more heat from the hill. attorney general eric holder try. extreme weather as tornado threats still on alert. some disaster experts call for a big change in how we prepare. auredskins reject renewed calls to change the team's name. why this time it