eric holder reaches out to major media outlets and gets media silence. >> we've got a trillion reasons to pay attention to what's happening in the senate. let's say they have a full place. >> i'm s.e. cupp. when we saw the headline why some men are losers, we both knew the journalists inside us had to dig deeper i can't wait to see that. facebook's mark zuckerberg is all up in the debate. america's relationship with "the cycle," all love. attorney general eric holder has extended an olive branch of sorts. a number of them are not impressed. holder invited washington bureau chiefs from television and print to meet with him and discuss rules on warrants and subpoenas

for reporters' records as part of leak investigations. the catch? the meetings with holder must be off the record. the associated press, "the new york times" and others won't be attending. the a.p. claims it wants any meeting to be on the record. meaning they could publish stories about it after. holder's offer comes as he faces continued scrutiny over the validity of this claim he made in testimony to the house judiciary committee earlier this month. >> with regard to the potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material, that is not something that i've ever been involved and heard of. or would think would be a wise policy. >> republican congressman james sensen brunner has been one of the harshest critics. he appeared with andrea mitchell earlier this afternoon demanding once again that the a.g. step down. >> either holder did sign off on an allegation that rosen violated the espionage act or he

didn't know that was in the jaft that was filed in the court. and he doesn't know what's going on in his own department. eat case, he ought to resign and, he has lost the trust of congress and the american people. >> let's get some perspective on all of this from a journalist who knows a thing or two about covering scandals. nbc news veteran tom brokaw who was white house correspondent at the height of watergate. ari has graciously offered to sit at the kids' table so we could have fun here on the set. thanks to you, tom, and thanks to you, ashei. >> i was under the impression this was the kids' table. >> you may have caught us there. i want to talk about to start with, the public perception of this scandal. there is a new quinnipiac poll showing that only 15% believe that the ap investigation is a pressing controversy. and they looked at that vis-a-vis the a.p.

investigation, benghazi and the irs targeting of conservative groups. is this story more of a mideast fascination because it is about the media than a public interest story? >> the public is not interested and doesn't make it unimportant, frankly, at this point. i think that there are very important issues that are involved here on both sides, by the way. the government feels very strongly that it was a violation probably of the espionage attacks. there was intel that they had developed on a very short term basis that they didn't want the north koreans to know about at a critical time. it got out. they went and had the reporter and the source in my judgment. and a ham-handed fashion. and then the explanations afterwards took a very circuitous route. what he said publicly, what the white house is saying.

i believe this meeting this afternoon should bring in the press. let the sunshine in. let's hear what the press institutions have to say. when it does happen, it does take on proportions in news coverage because it is about us. and i had used the phrase before, we have glass jaws of we swing away and someone takes a swing at us and we go down with the first punch. this is a case with more come opponents to it. i recommended people read walter pitchingus online looking at what the circumstances were for the justice department to move. and i would hope that we can get this resolved. i do think that this administration has held very tightly on to information that really ought to be in the public arena. and they're very difficult to deal with for working report orders a daily basis to get what they want to out of the administration. >> i think the general public might not understand the implications of the a.p. story. if you think we're better off

knowing about watergate and abu ghraib and iraq, this should matter to a lot of people. the media has pretty scathingly indicted eric holder in the past few weeks. in addition to the complaints about this off the record meeting, national journal, for example, has a headline out. seven reasons why the media should not keep eric holder's secrets. do you see the media turning on holder and the administration over this? if so, to what effect? >> the attorney suggests they had a position in favor of them at some point. what i do think is that i've been aware, and i'm not a working report he there on a daily basis. i'm in touch with the work in washington press corps. for some time they've been very frustrated about their ability to extract information that they think legitimately belongs in the public venue. what a lot of people don't understand is what happens in cases like this very often. you develop information. the administration finds out that you've got it.

they call and say you can't use that because it will compromise national security. make your case is what the reporter or a journalist or the editor says. they make their case. sometimes you say, that's a pretty strong case. we'll hold it for a while. i think that happened in the case of the a.p. they held it for quite a while. then they determined that it was in the public interests to know about it. that the administration had not entirely made the case. the administration came after them, hammer and tong. no administration that i know, democrat or republican, is happy with the press. a., generally, and b, feel very strongly they ought to protect any secret that they have developed behind the closed doors. that's not how it works in a democracy. >> with the a.p. and the irs scandals, we their word watergate thrown around. are these watergatesque? >> no. they're not. it was a constitutional crisis of the highest order.

of a lot of the president's men went to jail. the president himself lied. he destroyed tapes, it is pretty clear to me, the 18 1/2 minute gap. he tried to invoke the cia and the fbi in covering up a crime that was conducted on his behalf. so for political purposes, i can see why people would make that. peggy noonan wrote recently that the irs scandal was the worst scandal since watergate. and it occurred to me, i was covering iran-contra during the reagan administration when she was working for that president and we were funding a war illegally. we were trying to make a deal with the iranians at the time. that was a pretty big scandal, quite honestly. abu ghraib was a big scandal. and no one was really held accountable for it. so this happens in every administration. and it is happening again. >> and tom, you were saying earlier that there are times when the reporters have to make their case in a national security context. negotiating really, back and

forthwith the government over certain disclosures and reports. one big difference lately, of course, with wikileaks and the bradley manning trial starting next week, the government feel they don't have anyone on the other side of that table and there are many reports, as you know, the justice department in a range of investigations has gone after leakers and potentially journalists, caught up in these investigations. much more severely. out of that concern. the feeling that they are losing the negotiating partner that they once had. how much of that in your view, and from your history, do you think is a different context for this today? >> well, i think that is a different context. it is the new world in which we're living. so much information is out there and flying around and wikileaks is a perfect example of that. what was quite striking to me about wikileaks is that there was that enormous dump that went on for some time of classified documents, documents from various embassies around the world, and then when you read through all of them, there were

very few aha moments, frankly. it was anything that you read that you said, the government clearly is doing something that it promised not to do. this case will play out and it will be a template, i suppose, of sorts for the future. and the digital world in which we now live of. >> yeah. it is remarkable in a way that there wasn't actually more there in that massive dump. while we have you here, you have a new project airing on the military channel. brokaw files. let's take a look at that. >> moments before takeoff, red shirts signal him to lift his arms clear of the controls as they activate his weapons. in the final seconds, the all clear. the shooter presses the button. the massive jet is propelled from a standing start to 175 miles an hour in just 2.5 seconds. jack is airborne, headed for

afghanistan. >> looks amazing. brokaw files. >> not too long after that, i was in an f-14 going up over afghanistan in the back seat. that was one of my favorite pilots, mike is jack who was a great guy. we spent 48 hours on the uss stennis and the war zone. 5,200 people on board doing their job 24/7. >> what is the effect on the body when you go from 0 to 175 in two seconds? >> that's not the big impact. the big impact is when you go come back. you go from 175 miles to zero. you just stop like that. i have an anatomical description of that that i can't repeat on television. >> thank you. >> in the break. >> tom brokaw, thank you so much as always. and do not miss the brokaw files produced exclusively for the military channel by nbc's peacock productions tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern. up next, there has been a huge change in who is keeping track of all our household finances.

hint, it is the ladies. what hasn't changed, what people think about it. we will spin "the cycle" rolls on for thursday, may 30th. i'm in my work van, having lunch, next minute i'm in the back of an ambulance having a heart attack. i was in shape, fit. i did not see it coming. i take bayer aspirin. [ male announcer ] so be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. see your doctor and get checked out.

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we continue to track a tornado warning in oklahoma. let's get back to the meteorologist. >> all eyes have been on oklahoma because of the outbreak last week. now we are seeing the potential for the set-up of another outbreak. we already have two tornado warnings in effect right now. the first expires at 2:15 central time. and it is just north of oklahoma city. and you can see the skies look

angry. and they certainly look like they are trying to produce some of that rotation. and so far, the reason why these tornado warnings have been issued is because the doppler radar indicates that there is some sort of rotation within these storms and there is certainly the possibility that we could end up with the tornadoes actually touching the ground. the one that expires moments from now is just north of oklahoma. it is in central logan county. it is moving northeast at about 25 to 30 miles an hour. you can see near guthrie there and it is also producing large golf ball sized hail. the one just to the northeast of this, the tornado warning is in effect until 2:30 center time. in northeastern oklahoma. it is actually sitting just nine miles west of pawnee and moving east of 25 miles an hour. it is a line of storms like this that we will keep an eye on. that is where that chopper is

right now near these storms just north of oklahoma city and across northeastern oklahoma where they are certainly going to keep an eye on the sky for these possible tornadoes. the way they issue the tornado warnings, it is either if one is spotted on the ground from a spotter or from local police or area authorities. or if it is spotted on radar and indicates some sort of rotation. obviously the rotation was indicated on the radar looking at those very angry cells moving east northeast across oklahoma at about 25 to 30 miles per hour. and then you send out the spotters and you see through the chopper here that, now you just watch the sky and it certainly could dip down and produce that tornado. a tornado is actually when a funnel cloud reaches the ground. the tornado warning is issued. it is in effect until about 2:30 this afternoon central time. it an area that doesn't need any more of this severe weather. that's where the line of storm is setting up. it is an area where we could end

up with these storms through late this afternoon and into this evening. and tornado warnings most likely will be popping up throughout the afternoon and evening. we also already have a tornado warning in western arkansas right now as well. and again, it is not just the tornadoes but the torrential downpours. the line and it is also the very large hail. we already have reports of golf ball size hail. we could see larger hail over the course of these storms. and again, that tornado warning in effect in oklahoma. the first will expire likely unless it is reinstated. moving toward that area toward h nompb hominy, oklahoma. the storm chasers are out to see what develops. >> thank you very much. i know you'll keep us posted. we'll turn to some interesting new numbers that caught our eye today. a new study says there is a

record number of women. 40%, to be exact, who are now the main providers for their families back in the '60s, it was just 11% of women who were the sole or primary bread winners. this rise of working moms still get mixed opinions from the american public. only one in five people think working mothers with young kids is a good thing for our entire society. who is to say what's good for any family? we'll talk about that here as we spin. >> all right. >> are you ready? >> i'm excited. you teased it really well. >> this is a fascinating study. it obviously goes to economic questions. one of the most considering subsets, if you look at who are the people that are primary bread winners with the female being the primary bread winner position. what you see is african-american families overrepresented. about 10% of that people, where the woman is bringing home the money are african-american. by contrast, in areas when you

have men as the primary bread winner, it is only 5%. so part of what we're seeing is a split where it can be a good thing, it can be an empowering thing and a feminist thing for women to be playing this role. and it also scrambles some of our gender norms about masculinity. but also often it is not by choice. in many cases people need to earn more money for the family. >> and part of that is black women are having a hard time getting married. >> okay. whether they're home or working, making a lot of money. i think the empowering thing for women is in the choice. if they get to choose whether they are working or home raising families. and unfortunately, too few women get to make that choice. too few women have the luxury of making that choice. they either have to work to bring in an income or they have to stay home because that's the expectation within their family dynamic. the great emancipation of women from their master husbands and

first wave feminism and then the great emancipation from the home and second wave feminism, good things but incomplete. the real emancipation comes when women can return to the home and not be judged by other women. and that is still being negotiated. as ann romney learn last year of she came under fire for talking about the economy when she was just a stay at home mom from another woman. so it has been a real gap. and i don't think the circle of feminism will sufficiently close until that is reached and addressed and dealt with. so far it has been a real failure of feminism. >> and women are sort of judged no matter which choice they make and given all sorts of guilt if they are trying to balance the two. then they're never a good enough mom or never a good enough employee or they're, you know, heartless and they don't have children and they're just ambitious and focused on their career or why are they letting themselves down and not using all of their productive tal

enlts. so there's all kinds of guilt that women face over this. but getting back to the overall trend which is more and more women being the bread winner, the primary bread winner in their household. first i think you're right to underscore. two very different demographics here. one is single mothers and one is thewise are outearning the husband. in that group it is largely a upper middle class white phenomenon at this point. but we are going to see more and more movement in this direction. and you know that by looking at young women who are already in most major metros outearning their male peers if they are childless, i should add. that reverses once they have kids. they're earning more bachelors, masters and doctorates than their male peers. and one of the thing that was really interesting in this particular study is among newlyweds, the wives were more likely to have higher educational attainment than the husbands. women are getting a better

education. they're staying in school longer and so they're having higher earning potential. >> another part of this is i think an often disappointing response from men who are being outearned by their wives, in that they feel threatened. as if their masculinity is being challenged because their women are outearning them. and liza talks about this on the richer sex we had on a long time ago. that sometime the women responsible by not working or responsible by repromotions that would further vault themselves beyond their husband. or sometime they just do the work and feel unappreciated at home for being bread winners. i knew a couple once where the man lost his job for six months. the woman was able to take care of the family but that led to him being emasculated and then them breaking up. and i understand. for men, providing is part of being a man. right? but we have to be big enough to understand, if a woman can outearn us, that's good for the whole family union. >> i don't think our society has any idea how to deal with this.

either at a policy level or a cultural level, as you're underscoring. >> it is an important point for to you make because you are so masculine, to have a masculine man like you make that point is huge. it moved me. and i can't speak for the audience or anyone else. >> sure can't. >> while i can't speak for the audience, we did ask some of you about this. we posted the new research on our facebook page and asked what effect do you think this has on american families? belinda, drama-free daniels says i guess i'll bring home the bacon and he can cook it. sounds like you're keeping it real. >> as long as there's bacon, i'm happy. >> drama-free is a great nickname to put on your facebook page. we hope it's your real name. stop by our facebook page. give us your thoughts. up next, a trillion-dollar bill that affects everything from the food on your table to your kids' lunch to the air we all breathe. so why is not anyone talking

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you don't have to live on a farm to appreciate the farm bill. in fact, some of its biggest impacts are felt far from the field. everything from food costs to healthy options to how it gets to your dinner table. there are implications for renewable energy and your paycheck. it seals like something congress could really make a meal out of, right? well, before we dig in, here's some back ground. congress has been debating a new farm bill for five years. that's right. five years. mostly because everybody split when the check came. a trillion dollars. that's the price of the legislation being debated right now in the house and senate. 1 trillion. up nearly 50% for what passed in 2008. but our next guest believes the current bill is already too lean. let's get to the main course.

i'm sorry, maya, really, sorry. thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> so let's start with the basics. tell us why this bill is so important. where is it right now in the negotiating process? >> well, each house has passed a bill. that's the important thing to know. whether or not there will be legislation, we all hope there will be some. the bottom line is, this is important because at the end of the day, this is about everything from how we grow food to how it gets to our table. so whether it is school programs, whether it is nutrition support for people who are struggling to feed their families by the end of the month, whether it is how and what kinds of foods we are producing on american land and whether or not we're contributing to a bad environment or a good one. all of that gets wrapped up in this bill. >> well, let's talk about everything that gets wrapped up in this bill. is it going to be able to help

people get healthy food? as a lot of us know, a lot of people, especially in class, it is very difficult to get healthy food from anywhere around them. they may be surrounded by fast food restaurants. in new york we call them delis where you cannot get quality food. so is this farm bill going to be able to help us get through that? >> that's the $1 trillion question. one might say. so whether or not there are many, many amendments and many provisions in the farm bill. one of the reasons it is so large. it covers so much territory. we've been spending huge amounts of money in the farm bill to subsidize large corporations and large farms to make money, whether or not they're producing crops and having bad weather. the question is, are we going to spend that money to make sure people can get healthy food. we've had a four time over we've seen an increase in obesity rates in people aged 6-11.

6-year-olds to 11-year-olds. one of the reasons, senator gillibrand from new york has asked for financing which would help get supermarkets and grocery stores financing for them in communities that we call food deserts which basically means, communities that actually are a long way away from stores that sell sufficient produce, vegetables, the kinds of things that keep us healthy and reduce our obesity rates. so there are provisions in some of the bills coming out of the senate. we'll see if they survive. that's really the question. >> on that point about obesity, one out of three americans are obese, officially. it is an epidemic. in your view, how much of that is the government's fault? >> well, i think if you look at it, certainly there are multiple reasons. if you look at the farm bill, one of the things we've done over decades is we've six diesed five crops. we've essentially the government has said, we will pay farmers to grow or not grow or protect them

against losses for corn, soy, wheat, the reality, these become filler products in prepared foods like high fructose corn super, soy lecithin, thing that don't have great nutritional value and end up in our food. if you live in washington heights here in new york which is a largely latino neighborhood, what you will do is you will pay, have a choice between paying $1.39 for a pack of mac and cheese or $3 for a slimy head of letus. you tell me which you would pick. some of that because we haven't subsidized fruits and vegetables. nor have we done enough to get local farmers able to get their products into the communities that need them. there are important provisions, including one from sherrod brown that would help to do that. as well as the healthy food financing initiative. so there are policies. it would be a shift. we need more of it. that is why we can't turn away from funding good food for people now.

>> i don't want the lettuce. >> and you will pay for for the slimy lettuce. >> farmers are worried about the cost of their crop insurance going up and it is life or death to a farmer. what is being negotiate on both sides to keep crop insurance affordable? >> it is one of the issues that is kind of new in this farm bill. meaning taking away direct payments for some of the thing we were talking about. soy, corn, and having crop insurance. one of the thing that's important to know, a lot of that crop insurance, it depends on which bill passes. in the senate we'll cap crop insurance for very, very wealthy farmers who won't go out of business. the question, are we going to get that crop insurance to farmers who actually need it. one of the provisions we want to see is that there is more crop insurance for farmers growing

fruits and veng tagetables. >> all right. s.c., well done. >> i take my chances. >> totally gratuitous. >> thank you so much. great information as always. >> thanks for having me. up next, did you see the video of the billionaire investor guy who said, babies are a, quote, killer to women's focus on wall street? it turns out he is right about one thing. "time" magazine's reporter joins us to explain.

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some brokerage firms are. but way too many aren't. why? because selling their funds makes them more money. which makes you wonder -- isn't that a conflict? search "proprietary mutual funds." yikes! then go to e-trade. we've got over 8,000 mutual funds, and not one of them has our name on it. we're in the business of finding the right investments for you. e-trade. less for us. more for you. the fund's prospectus contains its investment objectives, risks, charges, expenses, and other important information and should be read and considered carefully before investing. for a current prospectus, visit etrade.com/mutualfunds. please reflect in the make-up of the panel, rich, white middle aged men and what it takes for someone different to have a seat at the table and finally share their voices from a powerful place. >> you will never see as many great women investors or traders as men, period, end of story.

>> as soon as that baby's lips touch that girl's bosom, forget it. every single investment idea, every desire to understand, every desire to understand what will make this go up or this go down will be overwhelmed by the most beautiful experience which a man will never share, but that emotive connection between that mother and that baby. >> wow! >> somehow -- i read it. but i hadn't seen it. it is different. it's worse. really? that was paul jones. one of the world's most famous investors with his take on the industry. comments he later walked back saying they were, quote, off the cuff. obviously that was obvious. and referred to a very specific type of global macro trader.

regardless, our next guest says that men and women traders are chemically different and that those difference that's define the generalers could actually help us create rules to build a safer market. and she notes that while the splashiest names in investment and trading for good reason and bad reasons are male, statistics show that women not only keep up in the industry but in many cases outperform their male downer parts over the long term. and yeah, new studies say it might be because they're women. joining us now is the standpoint managing editor, "time" magazine. wow! wow! >> i'm so glad you played the clip. it does have to be heard to be believed. so as you point out in this article, trader turned neuroscientist. that's a thing. john coates debunked this, of course. and men apparently fueled by testosterone and a so-called winner effect are actually more

aggressive than women. women are more even keeled and a uc berkeley study found women outperformed men over time because they make fewer trades. now i see your studies and i raise you a study. harvard did a study that found women were more aggressive gamblers themselves gambled more often, they gambled higher, riskier numbers. what is the difference between gambling and trading? is it just gambling with other people's money that make women somehow more responsible? >> it is a very interesting question. i haven't seen that study so i can't speak exactly to that but i'll explain this research which is really fascinating. what coates has done. he looked at male day traders on a trading desk in london and he found every time they would make a successful trade, their testosterone levels would go up. >> gross! >> wait, this is good stuff. we know from studies that have been done in biology that in the animal kingdom when testosterone

is raised, animals like men get excited. they take more risks. they tend to win whatever next fight or trade they're in. that does have a snow balling effect that can trade those booms and winning cycles that you see the best traders in. eventually, inevitably that risk taking behavior goes too far. that's why almost always, the kinds of guys that you see losing a billion dollars are inevitably the ones that have just come off a big winning cycle. because women have about 10% the testosterone of men, that doesn't happen as frequently. they are aggressive. they can be great traders but they trade differently. >> let's get into that. women of these studies are more risk averse and trade less frequently than the men do so sometimes that makes they will more effective traders. talk about why that is and perhaps even get into if lactation does have an impact on

trading. >> what has been found is that women like to have more information before they make a trade. so it tends, they tend to want to take longer. that's why you see them interestingly, trading for asset managers where you make decisions over the course of weeks and you might hold stocks for years versus, say, working on high speed trading desks at goldman sachs. where you have to make trades in seconds based on very little information and you might be holding the stocks only for few minutes. that's not the style of the average female trader. that said, over the long haul, over five years, nine years, there's plenty of studies that show that risk aversety can actually yield better results. >> really interesting. i know this is an emotional topic for a lot of people so i appreciate you really keeping your emotions to the side even though you're a female. i think paul tudor jones might be impressed with you. >> it is remarkable.

>> my serious question is, in your article you talk about these models to actually do something at a policy level within a company or a government policy. you point to deutsch bank where they're looking at up to five years for incentivizing bonuses, saying that a short term outlook which you're saying the research is correlated with that trading is bad long term regardless of gender. because you don't know if you're doing good things for the bank or for the portfolio unless you wait a while. so tell us about that. >> so if you look at how the financial crisis happened, and how bankers get paid, they get paid on yearly returns. if you think you have a chance of making a lot of money very quickly, but that it might tank your bank in five years. there is no reason for you to wait. you get your bonus at the end of every year. why would you wait and really think about what this would mean over the longer haul? if you expand the compensation periods and you look at how someone has performed over a longer period of time.

the chances are they'll act a little more safely and perhaps in the interests of their client and the interests of the bank. >> and back to the paul tudor jones video, i think s.e.'s face said it all. how common is this view actually on wall street? very few traders are women. is this still a sort of commonly held prevalent view? >> i hate to say it but i think it probably is. i have a lot of friends, we will friends, in investment banking. there aren't as many traders. probably of managers on the asset management side. if you look at high speed traders, maybe 5% women. and i think it is just an environment that maybe isn't so conducive to empowering women. that said, if we start to see more banks taking these kinds of longer term views, that would start to favor women traders and older workers as well who don't tend to have the testosterone driven boom bust cycles as much.

>> thank you for proving that trogladyte paul tudor jones wrong. up next, facebook, microsoft, google. some of the biggest name in silicon valley are putting themselves smack in the center of the immigration debate. why and who they're up against may be surprising to you. i want to make things more secure. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you do what you do... even better. ♪ there was this and this. she got a parking ticket...

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if you think the immigration debate is entirely dems versus republicans, you're missing a key plot line that is shaping the legislation, snaking its way through the senate. two major liberal constituencies. some of the unions are nervous about losing jobs to low skilled immigrants. they need to corner the market on the world's most brilliant people. in a recent editorial, mark zuckerberg wrote, in a knowledge economy, the most talented people are those we educate and attract to our country. he has clicked like beside visas but will congress? let's bring in our good friend, david goodfriend. the form he deputy staff secretary to president clinton at fcc attorney general, it seem clear that welcoming more and more brilliant people to our shores and making them american citizens will have a massive positive impact on the economy.

>> inviting more immigrants into the united states generally is good for the economy. you need look no further than the co-founder of google. he himself is an immigrant. he came here to maryland. his family did and he became a brilliant entrepreneur. that's one line of argument, that bringing more people in who are highly skilled creates jobs. the unions are saying, the labor movement is saying, yeah, but wait a second. if there are qualified american who should get those jobs, americans should get those job first before a company is allowed to go overseas and hire somebody from overseas. that's the debate. >> and those two sides of the coin are what people are trying to figure out. there is this fear that we're training foreign college students in these highly technical kinds of skill sets and then they leave and take their skills with them because we're not incentivizing them to stay. and then of course there's the fear that we are favoring these foreign trained workers over

americans who need jobs. what about putting some stem training into the immigration package itself? instead of making stem training separate from immigration, make it part of the package. >> that's a great point, s.e. the fact of the matter is the s.t.e.m. training in the united states is really where this debate should start. >> right. >> let me give you some numbers, okay? the tech community in general produces over 1600,000,000 jobs year that requires a bachelor's degree in science. 100,000-plus a year. colleges and universities produce 40,000 a year. that's the gap. that's the gap. if you can suddenly flick a switch and have more kids major in computer science and have more students qualified for those jobs, the issue would go away. >> sure. >> the issue would go away. >> well, it does strike me there are a lot of people in this economy who are having trouble getting jobs, but s.t.e.m. graduate, highly skilled american graduates, are not one of those groups.

>> right. >> david, also dig into a little bit more what the unions are asking for here. they're not saying we don't want high-skilled immigrants. they're asking for more, making sure that there aren't u.s. workers who could fill those jobs, right? >> that's right. i mean, the labor movement should not be vilified here. they have a good point which is before a company should be al w allowed to go hire somebody from overseas, make that company show that they've really tried first to hire an american. and before you allow a company to hire somebody at a much lower wage, this is, i think, a key point for the labor movement, don't allow low wages from overseas to drive down wages here in the united states. now, the american worker, whoever he or she may be, is going to agree with that. i think the big issue happened, if you want my honest opinion, labor and the chamber of commerce, afl-cio, chamber of commerce, they cut a deal. that's what the gang of eight brought to the senate. and now what you see happening is the tech community kind of comes in from out of left field,

as far as labor's concerned, and brings in something new and kind of blows up the deal that labor struck with chamber of commerce. so the labor movement is trying to get back into that pull position saying wait a second, we're the ones who struck the agreements with the chamber of commerce, don't blow up the deal. >> david, before we let you go, i don't really like the term "tech community." not to be a hater here. these are corporations, companies, right? they're coming in and have this new group, forward us, which zuckerberg and a bunch of other very wealthy individuals are behind and it's got a lot of rhetoric about immigration reform and what's good for the country, but most of the priorities seem to be pretty much traditional business lobbying. unpack for us where silicon valley fits in. are they different than usual corporate lobbying? >> i think they are in the following sense. this is a ticket to getting agreement on overall immigration reform. get h1b visas for high-skilled workers and bring in the

dreamers, 11 million undocumented workers and everything else. it is key to the big deal. >> david goodfriend, thank you very much. >> thank you, folks. up next, what krystal had for lunch. >> what? >> that's what she's going to talk about in her rant. of course, there's going to be more in it than that. we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪ water, we take our showers with it. we make our coffee with it. but we rarely tap its true potential and just let it be itself. flowing freely into clean lakes,

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i have a confession to make. today for lunch i had sushi. >> what? >> that's right. me and my nine month baby bump boldly sauntered up to the sushi counter and at 30 rock cafeteria

and ate the sin of prenataldom, raw fish. i may have had a glass of wine somewhere around month six of pregnancy. i know you're shocked at what a negligent mother i am. i already failed my child and he's not born yet. has motherhood been full of guilt? from the moment of conception, the absurdly long list of things you should avoid. god forbid you put on pounds like a kim kardashian. decisions about a birthing process, yourself. are you woman enough to push this baby out without an epidural? that's the guilt and judgment you'll face while pregnant. once the baby arrives, it gets worse. the big ef societal mommy guilt trips is the question of breast-feeding. one mom put it, it felt to me breast-feeding was one of the first real challenges motherhood presented me and if i failed i would be failing my son. i bet a lot of moms can relate to that. i certainly can.

i had an easy time breast-feeding my daughter, but many women don't either for health reasons or logistical reasons. for working moms it isn't easy to go through the ordeal of trying to pump discreetly at work if milk seeping through your blouse and that awkward question where you're supposed to store that breast milk. something tells me the shared office fridge is not the right answer. all that awkwardness, pain, trouble, is worth it because of the benefits breast-feeding provides, right? actually it's not clear. new research from the world health organization finds the short-term benefits of baby breast-feeding are real. the long-term benefits are quite a bit more tenuous. they found little actual evidence of breast-feeding -- against high blood pressure, or obesity. on i.q. they found a modest impact. it bears noting 40 years ago about 75% of moms formula fed their newborns and the kids

seemed to turn out pretty well. it turns out breast-feeding is still a good thing but worth the guilt and judgment we give ourselves? probably not. in fact, it seems like much of our mommy guilt is some weird mixture of our desire to be perceived ad ed as a certain ki mom based on societal norms and not based on science for what's best to for our kids. as for the sushi and wine, in japan, expecting moms are encouraged to eat sushi as part of a healthy prenatal diet. there's no evidence that a small am of alcohol consumed infrequently causes any kind of problem for baby. hardcore alcohol abuse, of course, definitely bad. a glass of wine with dinner on occasion, well, just ask a french mom how problematic that is. let's cut ourselveses a little bit of slack and savor a little soft cheese from time to time. this mom of one and soon to be two is certainly not going to judge. >> bravo. >> that does it for "the cycle." martin bashir, it's all yours. good afternoon, it's

thursday may the 30 presideth. we start with breaking news. there's a tornado warning in effect in parts of oklahoma, many of the same areas reeling from the massive tornado just ten days ago. nbc news' meteorologist dilan dryer is in the newsroom. >> we have severe thunderstorm warnings developing into tornado warnings over the course of the last 45 minutes or so. there are three areas we are watching right now. and you can see where oklahoma city is right in the center of the screen. the storm to the southwest of oklahoma city is not as of right now an official tornado, but there are indications that we could see some lowering of the clouds out that way and that could two into a stronger storm. just to the southwest of norman, oklahoma. if it moves to the northeast as it's doing at around 30, 406 miles per hour, that could be a concern for that area. right now that one is just a severe thunderstorm. then we go n