him. that's what they aare arguing. senator cruz is going to of the misunderstanding. we'll see. especially voters in real need have learned from their experience who was on their side. not always delivering but who is on their side. which party is working the other side of the street. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. >> thanks, chris, and thanks to you for tuning in. i'm live tonight in miami. tonight's lead, bringing down the house. president obama's confident about the future and calling out the obstruction in washington. >> if day in and day out what we confront is obstructionism for the sake of objestructionism an what appears to be an interest

only in scoring political points or placating a base as opposed to try and advancing the interests of the american people, then we've got to find a way to work a way around that. and one of the best ways to work around that is to have a democratic counsel of representatives. >> fighting obstructionism. it's defined his presidency from day one. they plotted to destroy him from day one, though. it was the big tea party takeover of 2010. they vowed to take down the president. they vowed to repeal obama care. it was a brash in your face type of politics but it's failing. michele bachmann is retiring before she's voted out, allen west and joe walsh could hold on to their seats but they don't learn. senator ted cruz, who once said

president obama is the most radical president ever is ticking off the next generation of right wing heroes. >> you come up with names like marco rubio, mike lee, rand paul, pat toomey, like scott walker. and here's what gives me so much optimism. if you look at this generation, i refer to this new generation of leaders as the children of reagan. >> the children of reagan? those guys make him look like a hollywood liberal. the president has remained focused on jobs, on fairness, on equal rights. he's winning and feeling confident. >> we've got a great chance of taking back the house and i'm going to be working tirelessly wherever i get the opportunity to make the case to the american people that our ideas are the right ones for growing the

middle class. >> joining me now are krystal ball and dana milbank. thank you both for your time. >> thanks for having us, rev. >> krystal, the president is bringing it. i mean, what's his strategy here? >> well, i think you spoke very well to the strategy. i mean, unfortunately, we are at a place where there is a very limited amount that we can actually get done in terms of focusing on a recovery, on our economy, building a long-term sustainable economy for the future. there's very little we can get done while we have a republican house of representatives. john boehner doesn't have control of his caucus. it's still ruled by the extremes. so the best thing they could possibly do is to take back the house in 2014. now, we should stipulate that is very much an up hill battle, not only because the incumbent president loses seats, but also because of redistricting in 2010, because of the way that

the districts are drawn, democrats would likely have to win 55% of the popular vote to take back the house but i think physical republicans go way too far instead of focusing on the scandals, which is jobs, which is prosperity for the future, they do risk having a blowout. >> dana, the president spoke very confidently about taking back the house but he still left the door open to compromises. watch this. >> part of my task is to constantly continually reach out to the other side to try to find common ground, to look for those republicans who don't think compromise is a dirty road. and so any opportunities i have to do that, i will seize them. >> even in his confidence, reaching out to republicans. any chance they will reach back? >> he's been doing these charm offenses for a while and so far

all it's netted him is a few nice dinners at the jefferson hotel. but it's a very delicate balance that he's got to strike here. he's trying to make deals with senate republicans, particularly on immigration and such. but he's also got to fight to try to regain control of the house and, as krystal pointed out, that's going to be very much an uphill battle. the problem is, the more he fights to take back the house, the more he antagonizes the republicans he needs to work with with tin the senate. the less red meat there is to try to take back the house. it's got to be a very delicate dance he's doing. >> but it seems like the american public is fed up with this tea party stuff but let me ask you, dana, the president does seem like he's not kidding about working with republicans. it's reported that he's expected

to nominate former bush official, james comey, to lead the fbi. this is not the first republican that he's put in a key position, dana. he's nominated other republicans in key positions. chuck hagel, robert gates as defense secretary, ray lahood as transportation secretary. he even named jon huntsman as ambassador to china. how can republicans claim the president doesn't work across the aisle when he's named all of these republican to key posts? >> it's funny, there may be a republican in good standing but as soon as the president embraces them or god forbid nominates them, they become ryan knows, republicans in name only. comey is a republican but he was very tough on albert gonzales and that warrantless wire

tapping. >> right. >> he's a law and order kind of guy. in other words, he's exactly the sort of guy who should be running the fbi and it will be -- it's so hard to imagine there being any opposition to him. but it is very also clear that no matter who the president is nominating it's not buying him goodwill with republican sdpls now, talking about republicans, krystal, the new generation of republican leaders certainly are not toning down their rhetoric. listen to this. >> nobody questions his legal authority but i think he's really losing the moral authority to lead this nation. >> i think president obama is the most radical president we've ever seen. >> in the months to come, i'm really going to focus on repealing obama care. >> they seem to be just as out there in terms of rhetoric and charges as the tea party group that we see go off to the wild,

wild yonder in this last cycle. >> and i've got to tell you, as a democrat hoping that we do take back some seats in the house, i hope they keep it up because they are so out of touch with what the american people think about this president. it's the same mistake that they made in 2012 in the election, thinking that the entire american population suspected the worst of him just like they do and it's a total mistake. the thing that americans are focused on is the economy. they are not as concerned about these small scandals that the republicans have been so focused on. they are certainly not interested in a 38th vote to repeal obama care. they want to see actual governance. our government working together and none of those guys that you just showed has any interest in that. >> you know, dana, you would think as krystal says that, that

after the election of 2012 where it was clear she stated that the american public was not where they were in their opinion of the president or the style that the tea party far right was coming that they would restrategize and come back with another strategy or that the more moderate republicans would take charge but it doesn't seem like they either can or they are willing to take charge and kind of push this kind of wow far right very, very ugly rhetoric to the background of the party. >> well, be patient, reverend. as ted cruz says, these are children of reagan. as children, we have to sometimes give them time to get around to this point of view. the party has said what needs to be done. it did its own autopsy. it said what direct needs to go and the problem is, you can't control people like rubio,

people like rand paul, people like cruz because they are not answering to the electorate at large. they are answering to a small sliver of it in terms of that tea party base in very red states. so, you know, the president's popularity has remained relatively high and as long as the economy continues to improve, as it has been, that popularity is not going to be dipping no matter what these guys say. >> well, i guess i have to be patient, dana. but my mother was a little more stern with raising her children. krystal and dana, thank you both for your time. >> thank you, reverend. >> catch krystal on "the cycle" weekdays at 3:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. coming up, george zimmerman's lawyer will be here for a live interview. you won't want to miss this. and first, it was mayor bloomberg. today, a threatening letter sent to president obama over gun control. and we know exactly why that

right wing scandal machine is working so hard. big news on that. and i've got my e-mail ready for you, "politicsnation." friend or foe, i want to know. stay with us. are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule.

the first technology of its kind... mom and dad, i have great news. is now providing answers families need.

gestarting may 20th atts participating bay area stores. ♪ have you joined the "politicsnation" conversation on facebook yet? today people were talking a lot about the ricin-laced letters sent to president obama and mayor bloomberg. nora says, all sane and responsible gun owners should be very angry at the ones that threaten others with death. laura says, "actions like this only make people even more determined to fight the gun lobby and the gun control laws." rodney says, "if ever we needed

background checks, this is a perfect example of why. we've got more on those letters and the escalating gun control debate coming up next. [ agent smith ] i've found software that intrigues me. it appears it's an agent of good. ♪ [ agent smith ] ge software connects patients to nurses to the right machines while dramatically reducing waiting time. [ telephone ringing ] now a waiting room is just a room. [ static warbles ] to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again. and now i've got to take more pills. ♪ yup. another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? ♪

for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪ [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. the gun control debate is heated. but it's taken an ugly term, from threatening rhetoric to physical threats. the fbi is testing a letter that may have been laced with ricin, sent to the president of the united states. threatening him if he continued to advocate for gun control. the text of the letter was

identical to two ricin-laced letters sent to new york city mayor michael bloomberg, a leader for gun control. nbc news, anyone wants to come to my house will get shot in the face. the right to bear arms is my constitutional god given right and i will exercise that right till the day i die. what's in this letter is nothing compared to what i've got planned for you. mayor bloomberg told reporters the threats wouldn't make him back down. >> the letter was obviously referred to are antigun efforts and 12,000 people are going to get killed this year with guns and 19,000 are going to commit suicide with guns and we're not to walk away from those efforts. >> joining me now is congressman

emanuel clever and david corn from "mother jones". >> good to be with you, reverend. >> congressman, this is pretty disturbing. what do you make of these ricin-laced letters? >> well, first of all, they are acts of terror. and the people who sent those ricin-laced letters to the president and mayor bloomberg and to the office of the mayors are no better than the chechen brothers who bombed boston. they are no better than any low-down criminal gangster mob-like terrorist in our country. what people need to keep in mind is that words take meaning. with any act of violence, particularly if it's a public act, they are preceded by words, whether it was the holocaust in germany, or which in our

tradition it was a resurrection. those acts were preceded by words and a lot of people contributed to this because they were making all kinds of statements about the president and mayor bloomberg wanted to come and take their gun. and so we see that in what just happened. >> now, when you look at the fact that we heard violent threats from folks on the right over gun control before, i want you to listen to an nra board member and celebrity gun rights activist ted knew jent. >> i knew you were going there. >> barack obama becomes the president in november again, i will be either dead or in jail this time next year. we need to ride into battlefield and chop their heads off in

november. >> the barack obama gang who believes in we the sheeple and is trying to reimplement the tear ra knee from king george that we escaped from in 1776. anybody that wants to disarm me can drop dead. you can take it, which ever -- >> now, you say you knew i was going there, david, but i played this because this is a man who was invited to the state of the union address of the president by a republican member of congress. >> a leader of the nra, featured at all of their conventions and radio shows and such. he's not the only one. i tell you, i get e-mails, conservative mailing lists almost every single day still saying that barack obama is coming to take your guns away. you know, rand paul and others

contributed to these sort of democr demagogueing away. and so it does create an atmosphere which is a false atmosphere, as the congressman noted, in which people who are more paranoid, maybe psychologically troubled who hear this stuff and they hear the extreme rhetoric and they decide it's time to take extreme action. i don't worry so much more about the president or mayor bloomberg, but a mail handler, somebody is going to get harmed in an attack like this who has nothing to do with anything. it's really quite dangerous when the rhetoric gets so extreme and people have to take responsibility for it. >> congressman, you know, we've reached a milestone in gun violence today. i want to give you these figures because sometimes i think people

don't understand the gravity of this issue. in the casualties during the entire iraq war, we lost -- we had 4,488 united states casualties. but as of today, there have been 4,499 gun deaths in this country since the shootings at sandy hook, 4,499. since sandy hook elementary school, just 5 1/2 months ago. i'm sorry. that's 4,502 deaths since sandy hook. that is unbelievable. more people have died to gun violence in this country since sandy hook. this is since sandy hook, than died in the iraq war. united states citizens. >> we are the leading nation on planet earth and we are creating an atmosphere in this country where we are interested in

laying out the most obscene rhetoric, the most violent of rhetoric and we are essentially saying, we don't care if people have mental disabilities. they ought to be able to get a gun. and the figures you just cited should cause this nation to erupt in anger at what's going on and then we need to redirect our anger, try to support the president's effort to get a background check the president's not breaking into anybody's home. the president has a pretty nice looking home there in washington. and we had a lot of people out here who are sick, who are eating this stuff up, who eat this ugly language that we hear up and they do it -- people like senator paul, they know better.

they are feeding it to people who don't. >> you know, david, you've got people even calling for -- there was one guy, a right-wing activist who recently canceled an armed march on washington and now he's calling for the american revolution. he writes -- and i'm quoting adam kokish, the activist that did this. he wrote this, a new american revolution is long overdue. this independence day, it shall take a new form as the american revolutionary armly will march on the governors of these 50 states immediately initiate the process of an orderly dissolution of the federal government. should one whole year from this july 4th while the crimes of the government are allowed to continue, we may have passed the point at which nonviolent revolution becomes impossible. this is dangerous stuff. >> reverend, this is a big

country. we have a lot of unhinged people in it who are able to get attention and if he gets 5,000 people to sign up for his effort to overthrow the u.s. government, that doesn't surprise me. to me the more troubling thing is that you have leaders, political leaders who play footsy with this. when you have michele bachmann talking about the tyranny death panels, obama care, things like that, and then you have people like john boehner who are not calling out those members of his party, it's a spectrum. the guy you just mentioned is all the way on the far right, whatever far end of the spectrum. as you get closer, you get closer to the michele bachmanns and john boehner and you see there is a whole environment, so of an infrastructure of ideology that allows this stuff to percolate and spread much wider than it should and it's the more

responsible people and the adults that are letting these wildfires rage without distancing themselves and the party from it. >> congressman emanuel cleaver and david corn, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you, reverend. coming up, just 11 days ahead of george zimmerman's murder trial, i have a lot of questions. mr. zimmerman's lawyer is here live. stay with us.

ok s o i' 've been having ok s an affair of sorts o i' with greek nonfat yogurt, loaded with protein 0% fat that thick creamy texture, i was in trouble. look i'm in a committed relationship with activia and i've been happy and so has my digestive system. now i'm even happier since activia greek showed up because now i get to have my first love and my greek passion together, what i call a healthy marriage. activia greek. the feel good greek. ♪ dannon more... step! [ mom ] my little girl...she loves to help out on big jobs. good thing there's bounty select-a-size. it's the smaller powerful sheet that acts like a big sheet. look! one select-a-size sheet of bounty is 50% more absorbent than a full size sheet of the leading ordinary brand. ♪ i got it! [ mom ] use less with the small but powerful picker upper. bounty select-a-size. and try bounty napkins.

i'm in my work van, having lunch, next minute i'm in the back of an ambulance having a heart attack. the emts gave me bayer aspirin. it helped save my life. i was in shape, fit. i did not see it coming. my doctor recommends i take bayer aspirin to help prevent another heart attack. [ male announcer ] aspirin is not appropriate for everyone so be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. i've lived through a massive heart attack. i don't take life for granted. see your doctor and get checked out. ♪ there was this and this. she got a parking ticket... ♪ and she forgot to pay her credit card bill on time. good thing she's got the citi simplicity card. it doesn't charge late fees or a penalty rate. ever. as in never ever. now about that parking ticket. [ grunting ] [ male announcer ] the citi simplicity card is the only card that never has late fees, a penalty rate, or an annual fee, ever. go to citi.com/simplicity to apply.

on february 26th of last year 17-year-old trayvon martin was shot and killed. in 11 days, george zimmerman will be on trial for killing trayvon martin. [ male announcer ] this is george. the day building a play set begins with a surprise twinge of back pain... and a choice. take up to 4 advil in a day or 2 aleve for all day relief. [ male announcer ] that's handy. ♪ [ male announcer ] that's handy. all stations come over to mithis is for real this time. step seven point two one two.

verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers. she's always been able it's just her way.day. but your erectile dysfunction - that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache.

to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. vo: ta friend under water is end usomething completely different. i met a turtle friend today so, you don't get that very often. it seemed like it was more than happy to have us in his home. so beautiful. avo: more travel. more options. more personal. whatever you're looking for expedia has more ways to help you find yours. some brokerage firms are. but way too many aren't. why? because selling their funds makes them more money.

which makes you wonder -- isn't that a conflict? search "proprietary mutual funds." yikes! then go to e-trade. we've got over 8,000 mutual funds, and not one of them has our name on it. we're in the business of finding the right investments for you. e-trade. less for us. more for you. the fund's prospectus contains its investment objectives, risks, charges, expenses, and other important information and should be read and considered carefully before investing. for a current prospectus, visit etrade.com/mutualfunds. there's just 11 days until the start of george zimmerman's second degree murder trial. he stands accused of killing trayvon martin. he's facing the possibility of life in prison for the death of the 17-year-old which happened on february 26th of last year. mr. zimmerman has pleaded not guilty and claims he shot trayvon martin in self-defense. that claim of self-defense will be the heart of the case. joining me now is george

zimmerman's defense attorney, mark o'mara. mr. o'mara, first i want to thank you for coming on the show tonight and i look forward to having a candid and respectful conversation about this case. >> thank you, reverend. great to talk to you. >> let's start with the night in question. let's listen to the part of mr. zimmerman -- let's listen to part of the tape of the 911 call when mr. zimmerman and a dispatcher. when the dispatcher talks about him pursing trayvon martin. >> [ bleep ] he's running. >> he's running? which way is he running? is. >> down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. >> which entrance? >> the back entrance. >> are you following him? >> yeah. >> okay. we don't need you to do that. >> okay. >> now, how can mr. zimmerman

claim self-defense if he was the one with the gun and he was the one pursing trayvon martin, even after he agreed with the dispatcher that he didn't need to follow him. >> the question is when he was pursing him and if he continued to pursue him. the question is not really one of whether or not any pursuit then allows violent response. the florida law, ignoring stand your ground because it doesn't really apply, florida's self-defense law says you're allowed to respond with force with life force and when that force gets to force likely to cause great bodily injury, you can respond with deadly force. so if you suggest, well, mr. zimmerman was at one point pursing, following trayvon martin, then he can't argue any type of self-defense, that's just not the law. it really comes down to what

happened when the two individuals, the two people got together and what happened at that point which would justify either one of them doing something to the other. >> but you can't dismiss how they got together and if they got together, based on the pursuit of mr. zimmerman, and a pursuit that he was advised by the dispatcher not to do and which he agreed not to do and did anyway, that would also set up the framework of how they got together and what transpired when they got together. then you can't come back with only one alive and say, i was defending myself. >> i understand that perspective but you have to understand that there is no evidence whatsoever and the state has not brought forth any evidence to suggest that mr. zimmerman was following trayvon martin after the dispatch said you don't have to do that because mr. zimmerman's response was okay. there's no evidence to support that he continued to pursue. i understand what you're saying

if he did, but there's no evidence to support that. >> okay. so when he said okay, you're saying that that was -- that he did not follow him after that? is that what you're representing? >> well, knowing the evidence, i'm trying not to get into specific evidence because that's truly for the trial. to respond to your inquiry, there's no evidence that the state had and i asked the investigator at the april 29th hearing at the beginning, i said, do you have any evidence to support that george zimmerman continued to pursue trayvon martin? he said no. i also asked the question, do you have any information to suggest that george zimmerman started the physical confrontation. there is no evidence of that. obviously there is a gap that we won't know. we'll never know precisely what happened but being that it's the state's -- >> that's maybe why he said he didn't have any evidence because there was only two people that

we know of there and one is dead, it's very difficult for him to get from the one claiming defense, that kind of evidence. all right. you -- let's go to another piece of evidence. >> sure. >> that bothers a lot of people. a key evidence is the screaming heard on the -- on a witness 911 call, which the prosecution says is trayvon martin. let's listen to that tape. >> i think they are yelling help but i don't know. just send someone quick please. >> okay. does he look hurt to you? >> i can't see him. i don't want to go out there. i don't know what's going on. >> they are sending. >> help! >> do you think he's yelling help? >> yes. >> all right. what is your -- there's gunshots. >> now, both a prosecution expert and martin's father say

it's trayvon on the tape. how can mr. zimmerman claim self-defense if trayvon martin is the one screaming for help? >> well, again, tracy martin when he was first asked about that said it wasn't trayvon and then at a later date he said he listened to a cleaned up cop tea it was trayvon martin but there's never been a cleaned up copy. that's to answer one part of it. you also mentioned that the state expert said it was trayvon martin and they actually didn't say that. if you look at the reports, they suggest that at times there was trayvon's voice and at other times, particularly before the shot, that it was george zimmerman's voice. i had mentioned before that i thought this case was going to be easy in the sense that i thought that tape was going to be easily determined to be one or the other screaming. i may have had my thoughts but my opinion doesn't matter. i thought it was going to be

easy to determine who it was. all of the experts have suggested how difficult it is going to be to ask to identify whose voice it is. there's none of the state's experts that have come back and said conclusively that it was trayvon or george zimmerman. unfortunately, i don't think we're ever going to have precise evidence on it. >> well, mr. o'mara, you have the state that we are told has an expert witness that says this as well as last year. let's go to another source. "the orlando sentinel," the paper in that area, had two experts saying the voice screaming on the tape was not the voice of george zimmerman. now, there were only two people there. if it wasn't zimmerman, clearly it would be trayvon. doesn't that under cut your case if you have three experts now saying that it was not zimmerman screaming for help that night?

how is he depending himself if he's not the one screaming? >> again, respectful of your position and insight, you certainly are entitled to it, i think the hearings that are going to be held next week, thursday and friday, the judge will have a better opportunity to see whether or not any of that evidence is going to come in and that even beyond that if it does come in the jury is going to look at it, hopefully listen to the tape themselves. they have to make a decision not just on what they hear. i will tell you, it's going to be across the board but i will let you know a that's what all of the experts are going to do. they are going to be across the board. >> go ahead. i'm sorry. >> they also have to take that evidence in conjunction with the forensic evidence. a lot of the forensic evidence suggests that though trayvon martin was fatally shot, he didn't have any other injuries that suggested an altercation yet george zimmerman had a lot

of injuries that showed altercation. as we take out one piece of it, it makes it difficult. i agree, i thought the voice was going to be easy to identify one or the other and it's just not. >> we've had three public experts that say contrary to that. let me go to another issue. >> yes, sir. >> on the night of trayvon martin's death, police let mr. zimmerman go. many of us felt that that violated the rights of mr. martin and which is why a lot of us became interested in the case. did they make the right decision to let him go without a full investigation? >> well, three answers. for those who are very concerned that young black males are treated in the criminal justice system, no. because it looked like they were ignoring the fact that a young black teen was lost or killed and the guy went home. so from that perspective, no. they didn't make the right decision. from the perspective of looking at the statute that says if you

have a belief that he acted in self-defense, you cannot arrest until you get to the point of probable cause. from that perspective, they did the right thing because they waited until they gathered more evidence to decide what to do. and that's not a bad thing. there are many cases where people are shot, people are killed and arrests are not made. the third point is this, and as a former prosecutor, when you arrest the six months speedy trial clock starts ticking. if you arrest on january 1st, you've got to try that client by june 30th and if you don't, he could walk. if in fact as a prosecutor i would say, don't arrest him until we actually have time to build our case, find out what's going on. we can always arrest. we know where he is. we'll get to him and arrest when we're ready to prosecute him. three different perspectives but i certainly understand all three and if it was anything other than a concern for how the community was going to react,

then i think the decision was probably proper to wait on the arrest. >> but mr. o'mara, are you saying then police should have the right to determine whether or not there was evidence of self-defense? because you said that if they determined there was evidence of self-defense, they could not make the arrest. the police in the police station, whether the person is black, white, latino, asian, anyone is dead, how do the police then become empowered to determine whether it was self-defense or not when there's one person dead and the only other western is the one that's alive, how do they become the judge and jury and prosecutor of that? >> well, if you look at our statutes and this is throughout the states, not just here in florida, cops make decisions on probable cause every day and every arrest they have to look at it and say, is there a probable cause here. do i arrest you for a dui because i have information that

you're driving under the influence. and in a murder case, was your shooting of this person justified or not, i'll give you an example. if somebody came in to your house, and came at you, you have the absolute right. you would have shot that person and killed him and a cop would come to your face and say, he's in my bedroom, i woke up, had a gun and shot him. the cop would say there's no probable case here. they would not arrest you and they wouldn't arrest you. >> in my house. but we're not talking about in my house. we're talking about trayvon martin going to his father's house, he's dead, the police come, there's one shot, mr. zimmerman had the gun, how can the police determine no matter what mr. zimmerman says, there's no probable cause when you have nothing but one shot, one man with a gun, and they were not in anyone's homes. they were not in mr. zimmerman's

area that could have been violated by trayvon martin. how could they have previously determined if that was self-defense? >> that was an obvious example where you could kill somebody and there be not probable cause to arrest. let's look closer to a case like the zimmerman case. if there is in fact evidence that you acted in a way that was necessary to defend yourself -- i mean, self-defense and even killing somebody is self-defense is allowable if it's justified so when a cops look at this, without -- ignore the stand your ground for a second, the 676 for eakd a second. then if we add on our new statute passed in 2005 that says affirmatively you cannot arrest somebody who acts in

self-defense unless you determine probable cause, they are immune from prosecution, that in florida increases the obligation on the police department to make sure this have probable cause before they arrest somebody. >> you're saying -- but there's not probable cause when you have an unarmed person dead and the person there then decides that he's going to use self-defense, defense to the police and you're empowering the police to determine whether there's self-defense or not? the probable cause is, you have a dead body of an unarmed person and there was no crime, there was no reason that the police could determine that at the scene, that's probable cause. i mean, otherwise anyone in this country could be shot and killed and the police could just decide in the police station will decide whether they go or not.

that's a very dangerous precedent, wouldn't you think so, attorney o'mara? >> i definitely would agree with your perspective. i truly do. because what it seems like it would have given the cops too much power. and if in fact they can look at somebody, look at the circumstances, not do a good job at investigating and say, you know what, this guy is black, this guy is purple, that's not probable cause, you're right, that's an inappropriate decision. but i will say that if we give cops the opportunities to investigate crimes fully and they actually do, it's not a bad way to say you have to have probable cause. now, here's a concern that i think is out there and you just sort of referenced it. if you relate a dead body to probable cause, it's a slightly, more difficult standard because

when you throw on this defense, of self-defense -- and there are a lot of scenario, not just when you are sitting in your house when you say it's obvious this person protected himself. i'm not talking about this case but any case where a person had a right to protect themselves. a rape situation, somebody tries to shoot somebody, nobody would say that was inappropriate them. >> that's the problem a lot of us have here. how can the police determine that there was a reason for this and clearly when it was investigated by a special prosecutor they found and charged differently. let me ask you one other thing and we're going to run out of time. >> yes, sir. >> you put out a lot of stuff on trayvon martin that the judge did not allow yet you say we should go by the six or seven

minutes of that night. you did not have to put that out in public. you could have waited until the hearing. was this to try and poison the public against trayvon martin and clearly your client's past who was arrested twice, trayvon wasn't. that can't be brought up at trial but you clearly put out things like stereotypes, gold teeth and all of that. what does that have to do with self-defense? >> first of all, one of george's arrests was dismissed. the charges were put in place at the beginning of the case, when they put all of the discovery out on their website. they did that and actually it made sense because that was easy access for the media. when we started getting up discovery, then, we put it out on our website. now, let's talk about what discovery is or isn't. if i were to hold on to that information until the hearing or until a trial, if it doesn't get

disclosed to the state. then it never can be used. so the filter is, they have to give me everything. there's a bunch of information they've given me about george zimmerman that i presume they know is never getting into a courtroom and there's a bunch of stuff about trayvon martin that i presume is never getting into a courtroom. but if we don't put out that first round of information, we can never use the more filtered round of what is out there. if i wasn't to tell the state, this is stuff that we saw in twitter, i'll say it here tonight, my hope still is that this man gets tried in the six or seven minutes what happened from that nonemergency call to the end of the emergency call and what happened that night. but here's the problem. if the state goes into george's past, then i get to go into george's proper and positive

past. if they say he's aggressive, i say he's peaceful. if they go into trayvon's past, trayvon is peaceful, i might be able to say trayvon is aggressive. i truly hope none of that gets into a courtroom. this was a six-minute event. but as a good criminal defense attorney you have to be ready. i've got a lot of arrows in my quiver that i really hope they all stay there and we try this case just on the facts of that night but i just like the prosecutor has to be ready. >> well, i'm out of time. clearly we are going to disagree on the smears that were put out. but you've explained your legal position. i appreciate you coming on and i hope we can have you back. let me ask you this. the family of tray john mar particular and the attorney for the family has said to all citizens that they hope that they follow these proceedings in a civil matter and that we

follow the letter of the law and have even denounced when there has been people that have said things like rewards and vigilante justice. we've heard a lot of ugliness on the other side from even family members. >> there is. >> do you denounce the ugliness and say we should proceed in a civil way and not in the ways that we've heard on any side and go through this process respecting the law since it is a trial and justice that those of us that were concerned seeking innocence in this matter? >> i'm very worried that we have tied way too much to this verdict, whatever verdict it is, that the country is getting divided by the case in that people are going to react negatively to it. so let me be very clear, this needs to be tried in a courtroom. it needs to be tried with the law and facts of the case and everybody, even if they don't like the result, everybody's got to respect it. this is the best system in the world. it will lose its shine if we lose respect in it.

so even though we've had troubles in the past, and you know them better than i, we have to rely on the jury system to do what they do and trust it and live with whatever result that is. >> i take it you agree with our actions that we fought to get it into a courtroom and not the police station to accept that. i accept your endorsement of our rallies. >> i absolutely agree with that. >> george zimmerman has sued nbc universal for defamation of character. we hope to have you back and continue these very frank conversations as well as mr. crump. we'll be right back. ♪

[ male announcer ] pain not sitting too well? burning to feel better? itching for relief? preparation h offers the most maximum strength solutions for all hemorrhoid symptoms. from the brand doctors recommend most. preparation h. don't stand for hemorrhoids. from the brand doctors recommend most. ok s o i' from the brand doctors recommend most. 've been having with greek nonfat yogurt, loaded with protein 0% fat that thick creamy texture, i was in trouble. look i'm in a committed relationship with activia and i've been happy and so has my digestive system. now i'm even happier since activia greek showed up because now i get to have my first love and my greek passion together, what i call a healthy marriage. activia greek. the feel good greek. ♪ dannon i got this. [thinking] is it that time? the son picks up the check?

[thinking] i'm still working. he's retired. i hope he's saving. i hope he saved enough. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. whether you're just starting your 401(k) or you are ready for retirement, we'll help you get there. how much is too much water? too little? until we got miracle-gro moisture control. it does what basic soils don't by absorbing more water, so it's there when plants need it. with the right soil, everyone grows with miracle-gro. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again. and now i've got to take more pills. ♪ yup. another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? ♪

for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪ [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. ♪ all stations come over to mithis is for real this time. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers. my final thoughts on the interview i just had when we come whack. i want to make things more secure.

[ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you do what you do... even better. ♪

in 11 days, george zimmerman will go on trial in this state.

he has the right to a defense. he has a right to explain his actions. but trayvon martin also had rights. and many people around the world of all races, including me, said that the police should not be able to go beyond those rights. and that's what many felt when he was released -- george zimmerman was released and this was not tried in a court of law. now it will be in a court of law and even mr. o'mara said that's where it should be. well, i'm not sure that that would have happened had not the public said, wait a minute, everyone's rights, trayvon martin's rights cannot be violated. i hope that we have a fair and just trial and we'll be watching that. but i hope the public will not use this as a way to go beyond the means of law. i hope that the law will stand up for what is right and we see

that we live in a nation where people cannot just do things and walk away without being held accountable. it is important for this nation that we watch and see how far we've come. that's why we needed to go in a court of law and that's what we sought and then 11 days, that's what will begin to happen. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. choose your weapons. scandals, or jobs? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. politics is what you're talking about. if you're talking about the