so the russians say in five years they'll be able to clone a woolly mammoth. we want to know who or what you would clone if you could. >> robert writes, our forefathers, so they could kick the blank of all the current office holders. >>holders. paul writes elvis and andre says let the cold war begin. >> my favorite is let's reanimate mike barnicle! sorry, guys. mike is not here today so i can take that shot. "morning joe." have a great weekend, guys. it begins right now. ♪ ♪ the city streets are empty now the lights don't shine no more ♪ >> you are known well there. >> good morning. it's friday, may 31st. with us on the set msnbc political analyst and visiting professor to nyu, former congressman harold ford jr.

ma mackinaw is his favorite sign. and also josh green. talking this morning about women power about why men are people too. >> finally! >> finally, somebody speaking out for the impressed man. and in washington, columnist for bloomberg view a man who has been impressed so many years, al hunt, he's with us. mika, a little known fact. a lot of people don't know that willie and i, 65-68 were together in nam. >> this is going to end up in the holiday inn on 57th street somehow. it always does. >> we have our reunion of the guys that went through, we were into, you know, what -- i can't call it what we called it, okay? you're in the bucket, man. but, any way so, willie, he is still doing it. i kind of got out of shape.

got out of the game. smoked a few. they still call willie back and they say, hey, willie, we need your help in this secret location. so willie showed off yesterday. >> what? >> what are we looking here, willie? that is old army training. >> that is a tough mudder they call that. it's one of these adventure races. that is the end of a long obstacle course. it's a greed up quarter pipe. let's be honest. i was up at the top every time. i he wasn't getting a lot of help. >> what are they doing? >> who is that? >> here is the thing. i'm a big man. >> you're big! >> 6'4", 210 and asking a lot. >> willie! >> will you please catch him? who is up there not catching you? >> there are a couple of tough mudder guys who eventually stepped in to help me and yank me up. i think this is the one where i finally get up there. >> this is like a recipe for -- >> there it is! >> come on now. i got the orange shirt guys

helping me. >> they put someone in who put you up? >> natalie, matt and al got up on the first try and took me six times to get up there. >> some things are skewed. >> i really wanted to help savannah. her problem she went barefoot. >> what is she doing? >> we jumped in an ice bath and she took her shoes off and just killed her. you got to have shoes. eventually everybody made it up to the top. those are incredible. i've done one in real life a spartan race, a tough mudder but it was fun yesterday. >> i talked to a doctor. i think the medical term is you broke your ass, right? >> i did. thank you for remembering. >> it was awkward. >> i quite literally broke my tailbone. >> that's not good. >> congratulations. >> well, thank you. >> that brought back some memories, huh, willie? >> oh, gosh.

>> mackiknack island, we are hanging out respect. you go there and hang out? smoke cigarettes at the bar, on the porch? >> "the new york times" wrote did it as detroit's dabos and you were a centerpiece of it. trying to get you. up there a few years. i went to law school in michigan and michigan is important to me. >> we met the president of the university. >> president coleman who is working hard at the school. a race up there which is big in detroit because the challenges the city is having. detroit is making a comeback. the optics aren't great nationally in some of the pieces but home prices are coming back and downtown is coming back and a lot still needs to be done. >> you look at the fact that some of the communities are really messed up right now. you look at the business, like 11 billion dollars being vest

invested in detroit. >> you say they have you back. they said you kept coming back. >> they say you come back three years in a row, they can't keep you away. you know what keeps you there? velcro. we tried to get rid of him and can't get rid of him. >> there is harold again. i guess he is speaking. >> what happened? >> the mets swept the yankees! >> t.j. is taunting me in my ear. >> interleague play 16 years in a row and the mets have never swept the yankees. they were 18-29 before it start. what is going on? >> they played two at yankees stadium and two at citifield. the yankees have been playing above their heads all year. the entire team is on the dl and caught up to them in that series. a long season. we will be okay.

>> i know, t.j. it was a four-game sweep, man! >> let's get to the news. >> unbelievable. >> can we, please? >> it's a long, long season. >> series starting for you and mika tonight with the sox. >> oh, my gosh. i know. there is also a great story in "the new york times" talking about how the republicans are trying to figure out exactly how to run against president obama. talking about running against president obama and real signs of wang. don't look at the broad story. you are confused about that. it's a resizing bras. >> what? >> and it's on the front page because people like you stop' look at it and they buy the newspaper. that's why it's on the front page. if i can finish a very important point. it reminds me of '66. but, any way, we overreached. >> really? >> in 1998. we were so sure. the republican party, very important for my republican brethren. you don't have to listen to me. god knows you haven't and you've

lost election after election. you go ahead and do that if you're comfortable with it. apparently you are. any way we overreached in '98 and made the '98 midterm about bill clinton. the republican national committee going around to all of the scandals and we got thrashed and the first time since 1822 "the new york times" reports today that the party in the white house picked up seats in the second term. now we have got poll numbers we are going to show you. barack obama's numbers are upside down right now, right? some of these scandals that is causing a flip. he remains an extraordinary popular person with the american people and if the republican party think they will expand their base by attacking barack obama they are going to be mistake. it's not how you do it. they have to lead with policies and so it's a fascinating story. >> you have the romneys coming up kind of hitting at the administration. >> they are coming out. if i'm the romneys, i hang out

in la jolla. >> play golf. >> play golf. body surf. i count my money in my braj, right? >> right the car elevator all day. >> if i were romney i'd fill it with cash and watch that thing go up and down and up. i go that is my money in that car. wouldn't you? >> bring friends over to look at the car. >> hey, look at my car! >> we are seven minutes in. >> you do know you have $3 million in 100 dollar bills packed in that car. i go, why, yes, i do. >> you'd put caramel all over yourself and roll around in it. >> i did it that last weekend. i'm saying if i were mitt romney what i would do if i had that money. >> we will start with economic news. two days ago, the dow hit another record high but according to a new analysis by the federal reserve, that's nothing for most americans to cheer about. this is what we were talking about here. six years after the peak of the

recession american households have rebuilt less than half of the wealth lost during the slow down. according to the analysis households lost nearly 16 trillion dollars of weather from the start of the crisis through the final quarter of 2009 and despite the appearance of recovery, the same households are only gained back 45% of that wealth lost. the report also showed that the improvements were mainly for wealthy families due to the stock market gains and recovery for lower income families has been even weaker. >> we had a couple of days, we had steve rattner on. he had his charts and he came packed with his charts and talking about how things were going so much better for people on wall street but there remains, willie, we have seen it time and time again the past years, there remains a huge sdicket between wall street and main street. >> the recovery is great if you're rich. if you're invested in the stock

market you're doing great. the people if they are lucky enough to get a job they have to take a job much less than the one they had. wages have stagnated and the middle class is not recovering at all the way the top 1% of the country is. >> al hunt, are you with us? >> i'm with you, mika. i haven't read that bra story. i'm still focusing on willie going up the pole. >> wow! let's try bring you into the conversation. he's been kind of -- >> he is kind out of it. >> yeah. >> bras and poles. >> even if you recover 45%, you spend most of that time trying to pick up the pieces. there is such a huge gap here between the rich and the poor. the great economic news we hear on the dow with housing and bigger indicators has nothing to do with what is happening in america. >> there really is a huge gap. disposable income for most average americans declined when

you just run inflation the past ten years. certainly has declined for people on wall street. there really has been a very uneven recovery. there are signs that it's getting better. i think the deleveraging has basically improved a great deal. housing prices which affect almost everyone are rebounding. but there still is a very uneven recovery and you had an income and a quality gap larger than almost anyplace in the world to start with and only has been exacerbated. >> what do you want them to do? >> i don't know. >> stand on the corner and hand out cash? >> the best thing we can do is elect leaders that help grow the entire economy. it's not a top/down answer or trickle down government. it doesn't work. >> i agree. when we talk about wall street,

lloyd -- is a small chas of people to al's point. people who are invested in the market. more and more people invest. you have this enormous and growing and unfortunate disconnect between the growth and the market and above 15,000 enpeople who don't have the still set to participate. education long herm that ha to be a part of. the jobs created are not dependable for a long period of time and don't help people begin to build and find -- >> jobs are back on the -- are make ago lot less on average, josh, are they not than when they lost their job? >> that is true. another reason why the middle class hasn't really participated in this recovery and big reason for that is home prices essentially have been stagnant. a lot of middle class people have wealth tied up in their house and they are under water. good news this week home prices are up 10% and they are expected to keep going that way and as

that recovers middle class people will help recover a little bit but you can only so far with a well paying job. >> home prices is the single biggest investment that -- >> and savings vehicle. >> the savings rate has gone up in the country but the challenge is people aren't able to create wealth because of that disposable income number that al touched on has not risen. how do banks and large corporations deal with this? create an environment where growth comes back and i think the conversation in washington has been a stale and narrow one because more cuts or more spending cuts or tax increases when there should be a bigger focus how to you perform a tax code and deal with this energy revolution and a way to create better paying jobs. >> you see the romneys are back in the news? >> i saw that. >> ann is coming out staying some stuff about the president. >> the romney's -- >> mitt is talking about he is inviting some rich people out to la jolla to talk to them.

look at the money in my car. good man. good man. >> yesterday, ann romney weighed in -- >> he is a really good man. why are you guys laughing? >> he's a good man. he's a good man. >> car elevator. >> i'm telling you, if i had that much money, i would do it too. >> it's friday. >> speaking of cars. it is friday so i can really go off. okay? you want me to tell me my dream last night? >> yes, tell me about your dream last night. >> a weird dream. >> a weird dream, man! so i'm on this bus. we are going around the bus. i go up to tell the bus driver i want off the next stop, right? we are weaving through traffic. the bus driver is sleeping. >> oh, my gosh. >> is sleeping. >> what? >> i nudge him. he goes, what? i said you're sleeping and you're going through traffic. you sleeping? she is like the bus drives itself. i go, it's one of these new

fanningled the bus drivers itself bus, right? i wake up this morning, harold. it's freaky. what is on the front page? i just had this dream last night, my friend. carol merril here. what is on the front page? but the united states of america is approving these cars that drive themselves. >> too bad there is no infrastructure for them to drive. >> my dream was ahead of its time, willie. you may say that i'm a dreamer. but i'm not the only one! all right? >> i'm going to have to ask you to leave. >> special brownies? >> mika, the romneys are back in the news! >> that is kind of weird. i'm having a dream and then look at this! >> oh, my god. okay. there is so much news to cover. >> i'm walking dead. that is freaky, man. the romney's are back in the news. >> they were staug about the scandals in white house. take a look.

>> i think there is breach of trust that we, as all americans, feel right now with our governments. if we look at the three scandals that are going on right now, and in particular i saw the polling numbers with -- how people upset with the irs scandal, is we have to have trust in our government. we have to ble that they are doing the right for us. we feel like they are breaking our trust. it's deeply troubling. >> i turn to the bus driver and i'm saying, what are you doing? >> yeah. what are you doing? >> mitt -- >> what is he doing? what is he doing? >> i don't know. i don't really know. >> mitt romney is also back in the public spotlight revealing plans to campaign for 2014 republican candidates. in an interview with the "the wall street journal" romney speaks out against the obama administration echoing his wife ann but also taking it a step further saying, quote, even more disappointing than the controversies has been the lack of a clear agenda in the first 100 days.

the only thing that has come forward is immigration reform which is very important and that has been done entirely by the senate. we are now over a hundred days and we have yet to see any particular agenda. >> i've heard enough. al hunt, what is going on here? shouldn't the romney's hang out in la jolla a couple of more years before they start weighing? >> i think the hope for most republicans rned around the country. i want to hear who the republicans are who want mitt romney to campaign for them. after 2008 and 2012 he is supportive of immigration reform and a shame he didn't tell voters about that the last election. >> he almost did, al. he almost did in iowa, actually. then he decided instead he would go the opposite direction and lamb blast rick perry. we talk to some of their close friends the past couple of days

who say we love the guy and always has but he is in the prong profession. >> a wonderful family. >> he can turn businesses around and should not be in public office and having him out and having ann romney out on "cbs this morning," i don't think it's helpful for the republican brand right now. we have an election to run in 2014 and they need to win that election. if they want to quietly write checks, he can do that. >> he can do that. >> thank you, al. >> we will get back to al on some of these stores. >> the bra stories. >> and rutgers goes from scandal to new crisis. there is more, is there, on julie hermann? would they do this to a man? >> yes. >> what has she done? is it that bad? >> there is a pending lawsuit in

kentucky! >> that's bad. >> they didn't know about that? >> sexual discrimination. i think that is -- >> let's find out. >> they lost because the school -- they appealed and they won. the challenge was that there was a coach there who complained about discrimination from her track and field coach and. claims that jewel herm julie hee was fired. >> they said she was fired because of -- >> isn't it still pending in kentucky? >> they are waiting to see if kentucky state supreme court -- >> if you got -- >> as they stand, she won. >> sexual discrimination? >> on that, you should probably, if you got to serve, i think they had like 873 people on this search vetting committee. somebody should have figured out that she had a case for sexual discrimination pending in a state court!

>> the real failure was them and they didn't know this and do this is a bomb. >> the fact they didn't know about the larry from the volleyball team in the '90s. >> calling them quite a few names. >> much more coming up on "morning joe." also coming up -- >> we really should have al hunt in more on the next block. keep him focused because he wonders off into the field reading about bra stories. >> former governor jon huntsman will be here and david axleroad and eugene robinson and david gregory. his books has inspired many. "straight flush"'s author will be with us. form governor howard dean has some choice words in our show yesterday for the daily collar. >> howard was a little -- >> he was explosive. he was like this on the set.

>> i loved it. >> i thought he was great but he made himself very clear. lashed out. first, let's go to bill karins, a mild man, with a check on the forecast. bill? >> yesterday, we survived another dangerous day in the midwest. we had a couple of injuries but we didn't have any fatalities. no devastating tornadoes but today is another dangerous day. unbelievable. the sixth day in a row. the atmosphere this morning is so prime for these storms. we are already watching severe storms around kansas city. a miserable morning commute there in the metro kansas city area. flash flood warnings in effect. late today, the storms spread. areas of yellow once again. same spots as yesterday, chicago, peoria, indianapolis, st. louis and then watch the area in red for the potential of tornadoes maybe a few strong tornadoes, oklahoma city, watch out. tulsa. all the way up there to the ozarks. as far as the sflooged goes on the mississippi we are expecting that crest on tuesday. this will be the eighth highest water level ever recorded in st.

louis. the forecast today and east coast you're okay until sunday. the middle of the country, you do not clear out until sunday. that is when our string of storms will end. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. ♪ i shout and scream i tell the gang ♪ i am an american success story. i'm a teacher. i'm a firefighter. i'm a carpenter. i'm an accountant. a mechanical engineer. and i shop at walmart. truth is, over sixty percent of america shops at walmart every month. i find what i need, at a great price. and the money i save goes to important things. braces for my daughter. a little something for my son's college fund. when people look at me, i hope they see someone building a better life. vo: living better: that's the real walmart.

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live look at new york city. time to take a look at the morning papers. beyonce is mad. >> what is she mad about? >> they tried to make her back side look smaller, apparently. >> i hate when t.j. tries to do that for me. >> 25 past the hour. >> very proud of my heritage. how fat i am. >> yes, you are. you look a little better.

"the washington times." all x-ray body scanners had been removed from all u.s. reports citing security concerns. why? what did she say? passengers felt the skacanners were a violation of privacy. oh, great we have been in 800 of those. >> exactly. >> i don't get it. >> "usa today" the price for grilling a hamburger or steak will reach historic highs. due to several droughts which has impacted cattle feed. >> "the washington post" josh welsh was suspend fred school two days for pbiting his pop tat into the shape of a grandpa. >> he has some very talented teeth. how do you do that? seriously. >> it wasn't all bad news for josh. >> that looks pretty good for josh. >> on wednesday, josh received a lifetime membership from the

nra! this is just awful. >> josh said he did not know what it meant to have a membership, nor was he aware of what the nra stands for. >> that's funny. that's funny. the "chicago tribune" and chicago sun times laid off all of their 28 full-time photographers and now utilize reporters and freelancers. there was a picture that was taken by a photographer of the photographers when they learned they are losing all of their jobs. it's heart breaking. >> on the cover of this week's "parade" magazine america at its best featuring all american ideas for enjoying the coming summer season with kelly ripka

and michael strahan on the cover. >> in speedos by jim vandehei's above ground pool. >> let's go to mike allen with a look at the playbook for politico. you want to reveal that cover for us today? >> all i can say, collect the whole set. >> can't wait to see that. >> and what i have to say is happy friday. >> there it is. the weekend officially begins. talk a little politico.com. after targeted by gun control advocates senator mark prior of arkansas is pushing back on his own. the first for any democratic senator up for re-election in between. let's take a all right. they are reasoning ads against me because i support president obama's gun control bill. nothing would have prevented tucson, arizona or jonesboro or

aurora. i want to have solutions to gun violence by protecting our second amendment rights. i am mark pryor and i approve this message because no one tells me what to do. >> a billionaire trying to live our lives out in the country? >> willie, i think that is right. here you have a u.s. senator who is running as an outsider because of these ads by mayors against illegal guns. the mayors group has lots to say and say they will continue to run ads against people who voted against background checks and these other measures. we have to paws and say how early this ad is. 17 months until election day but senator pryor here who is one of the most vulnerable senators in the country trying to both bolster himself after these shots from the bloomberg groop

but scare off a challenger to congressman tom cotton of arkansas, one of the most successful young house republicans taking a look at this race and so an ad like this has a bunch of functions. >> al hunt, there are parts of this country, are there not, where an ad from mayor bloomberg's group will backfire after he is going after a candidate and may help that candidate to put himself as an outsider against a manhattan billionai billionaire? >> arkansas is at the top of that list as you saw from that ad. i think problematic for any of those people is gabby giffords were to come in and point out those votes. mark pryor is a nice man. he may even be a good senator. i think that ad was a little bit disingenuous but probably pretty effective. >> mike allen with a look at the political playbook, have a great week. >> enyou too. >> things were chippy during last night's heat and pacers

game. lebron took over and outscoring the indiana pacers by himself in the third quarter. show you how a close game turned into a blowout next in sports. people join angie's list for all kinds of reasons. i go to angie's list to gauge whether or not the projects will be done in a timely fashion and within budget. angie's list members can tell you which provider is the best in town. you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare. now that we're expecting, i like the fact that i can go onto angie's list and look for pediatricians. the service providers that i've found on angie's list actually have blown me away. join today and find out why over 1 million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust.

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time for some sports. we begin with the nba playoffs. miami heat hosting the pacers in game five. the bird man chris andersen of the heat and tyler hans bro had to be separated. 30 points for the lebron. heat take the lead with the victory and they can close this out if they win on the road in indiana on saturday night. a lot of interleague baseball last night. yankees trying to avoid a keep against the mets. marlon byrd sends the ball deep to left top of the third. second deck. two-run home run. yankees were limited to four hits over seven plus innings. the mets complete the four-game

subway series sweep. the mets past milwaukee for third worst record in the national league but they did sweep the yankees. philadelphia and red sox. red sox win. jacoby ellsbury of the sox breaks a team record with five stolen bases. he stole five bases. here is one for the highlight reel in anaheim. dodgers struggling a bit but carl crawford with a nice dafg cat diving catch here. he slides into the wall. made the grab and angels did win the game 3-2 and dodgers in last place. chicago and cubs starting pitcher travis woods steps up to plate with the bases loaded in the fourth. again, this is your pitcher. he launches one deep to left. grand slam. he also gets the win on the bump. the cubs went on to win 8-3. pirates and tigers. bottom of the 11th inning. score tied at 1. bases loaded and pittsburgh's

russell martin drills one. the pirates are 34-20 with the second best record in all of baseball. we will see how long that lasts. they have been kind of doing this the last couple of years. >> somebody told me it is the best baseball field. >> i've never been to pnc park. people say they love it. >> get in my vw van. >> people rave about it. >> a sound bite in the tease. that means he has to stop talking and you start talking and he stops talking. >> do they still call it three rivers stadium? >> you can call it that. >> i believe it's pnc. >> let's go when the montreal expos play them. i love those uniforms. >> traditional rivals. >> let's try and dodge right! coming up next on "morning joe." >> willie stargell. >> i love that! >> good friend and man of the show. >> we love him.

>> switch to decaf. >> to which governor dean said? >> he is a right wing. >> daily caller is a propaganda organization. >> come on! >> it is. >> daily caller's matt lewis joins us next to defend himself against governor dean's comments yesterday. >> with his jacket! complete with froot loops! [ female announcer ] are you sensitive to dairy? then you'll love lactose-free lactaid® it's 100% real milk that's easy to digest so you can fully enjoy the dairy you love.

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and that's why when diet and exercise alone aren't enough to lower cholesterol i prescribe crestor. [ female announcer ] crestor is not right for everyone. like people with liver disease or women who are nursing, pregnant or may become pregnant. tell your doctor about other medicines you're taking. call your doctor right away if you have muscle pain or weakness, feel unusually tired, have loss of appetite, upper belly pain, dark urine or yellowing of skin or eyes. these could be signs of rare but serious side effects. is your cholesterol at goal? ask your doctor about crestor. [ female announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. because all these whole grains aren't healthy unless you actually eat them ♪ multigrain cheerios. also available in delicious peanut butter. healthy never tasted so sweet. also available in delicious peanut butter. what that's great. it won't take long, will it? nah. okay. this, won't take long will it? no, not at all.

how many of these can we do on our budget? more than you think. didn't take very long, did it? summer is here, so are the savings. that's nice. post it. already did. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. get 3 bags of earthgro mulch, a special buy for just $10. ♪ this is sri rigilly right w nonsense. >> what? >> wait a minute. what are you talking about? >> a right wing conservative nut case. this is crap. who gives a damn? why do you -- this is why i don't read editorial pages because i don't give a damn what these people say. >> matt lewis. >> good friend of the show. >> he loves juices and loves

america. >> governor dean needs to switch to decaf for just this morning. >> he is a right wing fruit loop too? >> they are a propaganda organization. i read the daily caller. you got conservatives and there is right wingers. the right wingers are all about propaganda. conservatives have a set of principles that don't happen to be the same as mine but they are reasonable and you can do business with them. >> all righty now. >> he was supercharged! >> he must have gotten my -- >> i think that segment was brought to you by red bull. >> it might have been. joining us from washington, senior commentator at the daily caller, matt lewis for the must read opinion pages. >> are you now matt lewis or have you ever been, sir, a fruit loo

loops? >> he is that. >> are they on your keyboard, cheetos? >> out of his mom's basement. this works perfectly. >> yes, it does. eugene robinson, the gop is too juvenile to governor he says. farp right conservatives including at any time cruz and marco rubio and others refusing to allow the senate to point its representatives to the conference. promising fight since they are pointed by the gop controlled house are hardly going to be flaming liberals. instead the party seeks not consensus but crisis. this is no way for a 2-year-old to act, much less the self-proclaimed world's greatest

deliberative body. >> they are upset that three guys are stopping this budget the democrats finally passed on the senate so they can get a crack at paul ryan's budget. do you think they have a point? >> look. you know, we always fight over these little things, but i think here is something to keep in mind. sometimes what we think are these petty fights that are about nothing, there is actually a larger strategy involved. and, you know, the suppression about how politics is like making sausage, you don't want to see it being made. i think back to -- here i am changing the subject. all of these scandals surrounding eric holder, the e-mails that came out about ben ghazi, that was part of a bargaining position with the white house because they were holding up an appointment so the republicans looked like they were just being childish and playing petty politics but they actually had an end in mind. when i see these things

happening behind closed doors, i want you sometimes there is a method to the madness there. give them some credit. >> al hunt, of course, what matt lewis is talking about is nominations being held up and they demanded in ben ghazi e-mails and they got it and it opened up a lot of the inquires that are going on right now, information that americans need to know. in this case, though, there was that classic "the new york times" shot this weekend of john mccain just glaring at marco rubio and marco staring and say, okay, i'm going to pretend you're not there glaring at me. mccain and other senior republicans, conservatives, are so angry that mike lee and marco rubio and ted cruz are holding up a budget from going to conference after democrats hadn't passed a budget in four years. >> and were criticized rightly for it. >> not only that. every campaign last year, the

gop tried to put their democratic opponent on the offensive saying you can't even pass a budget and it was effective in some plays. there was pressure and they did pass a budget. there was no justification. you can argue you won't cut a deal but the idea of not even going to conference, i'm not quite sure i understand matt's logic there. it is an ugly process but you got to begin it before it can become ugly. >> matt, it's very interesting. you look at mike lee doing this. that makes a lot of sense. he's an outsider even in his republican party. that's how he got elected running against an incumbent famously. ted cruz is on his own path. he just said publicly i don't trust the republicans and i don't trust my own party. marco rubio, that is sort of one of these -- which one of these don't belong. he is more mainstream and kind of comes out of the jeb bush area. he is being progressive for

republicans on immigration reform. very interesting to see marco rubio that far out on the cliff coming from a state has gone from barack obama two times in a row, isn't it? >> right. let's me say first of all, i do have to say these sort of imaginations that happen and i think the conservatives are very concerned about the debt and raising of the debt ceiling. i think there is something to be said for what the conservative caucus is trying to do in the senate. but, look. i think that marco rubio because he is out on a limb on immigration and i actually think he is doing the right thing on immigration but it's incredibly risky and he is spending a lot of political capital to do it. i think on everything else you're going to see him go to the right. >> he has got to be supercharged, doesn't he, matt? >> he has to prove to the base. >> to prove to his base, okay, listen. i'm a little more flexible on immigration but i'm one of three republicans that are standing with my finger in the dike

stopping the explosion of debt. >> right. you're going to see it not just on that but on whether it's gun control or any other issue. marco rubio simply cannot afford to be unorthodoxed rye now on any other area. and i'm not suggesting that this is solely political strategy. i think in terms of the rhetoric and in terms of the symbolism he has to go to the right on everything else so he can do immigration. >> that's a great point by matt. >> it is a good point by matt. >> we have to go to a tease now. coming up on "morning joe," former governor jon huntsman will be joining the table. >> stay with us, matt. >> donny deutsche is having a tough time dodging questions about that video that may or may not exist. "news you can't use" is next. hey, what's going on here? do you want the long or the short answer?

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k-n-a-i-d-e-l. knaidel. >> you are absolutely right. >> what is the significance of this kind of accomplishment for you this year? >> well, it means that i am

retiring on a good note. >> what are you going to do now that you're retired. go play golf or what? >> i shall spend the summer maybe, the entire day, studying physics. >> goodness! >> what i want to do this summer. >> that is 13-year-old arvin bayside hills here in the city. he is the national spelling bee champ. his winning word is knaidel also known as a dumpling. he says he will use the 30 thousand cash prize for college. some of the best moments came from those who sadly did not win. a few of our favorites. >> c-a- >> may i have the --

>> raboni. >> the best word i use to describe myself is swag, swag, s-w-a-g. >> part of the speech, please? >> b-o-t- -- oh, gosh! >> no! >> sorry. >> he slaughtered that word, didn't sunny good job, caleb. >> good job. again, here for the third time. >> m-i-n-n-e-l-i-e-d-minnelied. >> i love those kids. spelling bee parents are intense and kind of ironically pageant parents. check out the guy on the left side of your screen pulling out the binoculars to watch one of the spellers during the final. >> it's big. you need those things.

>> what is up? talk toronto politics. >> we saw toronto recently. >> so goes toronto, so goes your home for toronto politics. "morning joe." >> the mayor is refusing to back down. >> why should he? >> he was intermediate smoking crack cocaine something he denies. the mayor addressed the local media days after losing his time communication aides and his chief of staff. >> also always said to my staff, new opportunity arises, take it. i've been interviewing candidates all week. and i look forward to hiring new staff as soon as possible. thank you so much. >> have you taken any illegal drugs since you've been mayor? >> anything else? >> have you tried to obtain the video, sir? >> anything else? >> the deputy mayor says he believes -- is that accepted? >> nils? >> sir. >> anything else? >> anything else? >> wow. mayor ford previously said he

would not let the media which i described as, quote, maggots interfere with his ability to run the city. he is up for re-election next year. >> i think this guy has a future. he thought that presser was about his staff and the minute he stopped talking, crack cocaine but he denies it completely. >> where is the tape? >> i haven't seen any tape. >> gawker has the tape. >> i thought gawker was trying to get the tape? >> they are trying to get the tape but -- >> watch this. >> he is nimble on his feet. my gosh! >> that is a tough week. >> that's a tough week. >> anything else? anything else? >> oh, my god. >> listen, willie. i think when the history books are written by toronto politics and a book on the history of toronto politics, 1864 to 1914. one of the most fascinating periods, right? prewar. and i think we are going to find

this guy was framed. like blagojevich was framed. we could go down the long list of it. >> republicans want a scandal. >> that's a scandal. >> all right. >> he denied this. >> i want to see the tape! is there a tape there? >> no. >> if you're asked point blank if you use crack and you can't say no. have you ever smoked crack? no. okay, good. >> seriously? you don't open the door to him. >> what is next, willie? >> you got to shut the door. >> look who is standing over there? the author whose book is at it again and not seen here and ben takes us inside the online poker industry. here is what i was talking about! up next, here we go! look at this. governor jon huntsman and donny deutsche together again! keep it here on "morning joe."

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we'll help you get there. ♪ you know what? this is not going to go well. a live look at the white house. bloomberg view al hunt and daily caller matt lewis are still with us in washington. joining us on the set and starting things off very badly already the chairman of deutch incorporated, donny deutch and

jon huntsman. seriously, donny? >> we tried to find and eraser in the makeup room for donny but nobody could come up with one. >> it's a head and shoulders. look. you guys are so good looking. can we get a side-by-side shot? >> look at that. >> a shout-out to his daughter who i did her show who is so brilliant and so wonderful and -- >> please don't call her what you called my daughters, okay? that was a problem for me. >> i tried to wear some new bling because every time donny is on, he has some bling. that is a nice watch. >> i was going to get a nike running watch but then i remembered i don't run. >> it was a wristband from donny

from a nightclub he was at last night. >> ladies night at the blarney stone last night! >> speaking of politics. i was here, i think, the first time the governor was here, it was during the race. and we sat for about 15 minutes. he walked off and we looked at each other and said why is he a candidate? we looked at each other. after listening to the buffoonery, the governor comes own and makes sense and we turned to each other and said what are they missing here? >> you know who is the happiest he wasn't a candidate? >> who? >> the obama administration. >> yes, they were, actually. we have a lot to talk about this morning. you said matt lewis is still in washington, d.c. wearing his jacket of froot loops. i thought you held it together all right last segment. >> thank you. can i say something, though, about governor dean? i should defend the daily caller. >> he called you a fruitcake.

go ahead. >> first of all, i wonder -- i would ask governor dean if he would say the same thing "the huffington post," or the new republic. i would point out the daily caller he says we are a propaganda outfit. we wrote a story showing nice letters he wrote to president obama during the campaign that didn't help him as a republican. we wrote about michele bachmann's migraines. i want to defend the "daily caller." which i think is a good outfit. governor dean, we are celebrating about a ten-year anniversary running for president and i don't think he gets the credit he deserves. i think he really paved the ground that barack obama ended up capitalizing on. you know, he was the first guy who was able to criticize

president bush over the war but not come across as like a wimpy dof drove. the 50-state strategy. as much as howard dean -- i will repeg evil with good here and say i think that he is underrated his political impact in america. >> that's not very caffeinated. >> it wasn't. >> i like it much better when howard is foaming at the mouth. he doesn't name anybody. >> waiting for his head to explode! >> i love him. >> but fair enough. >> jon huntsman, i want to go to you and al hunt next. a great story in "the new york times" talking about republicans how they try to figure out how to pretty much president obama going into 2014. the president is a whose approval rates-the-ratings are upside down. republicans like myself remember

1998 and we were so sure the clinton scandals were going to carry us over to the promise land and, instead, focusing on bill clinton and bill clinton scandals and not just monica. i wasn't focusing on her. i was focusing on weapon cells to china and big contributors and big fund-raisers where bill clinton would good into the white house and all of these people from foreign countries. one time there was so many foreigners in there, he said, today, is a day that we in the united states call presidents' day and where we celebrate our presidents. there were so many scandals you couldn't keep up with them. we focused on that and, as a result, but not focusing on policies, the times reports this was the first time in 1998 since 1822 that the party empowered the white house and their second term picked up seats. we killed ourselves.

newt gingrich is run out of town. >> they don't care about the scandals that are playing out. i think the irs thing really bothers them because that gets to the heart and soul of probably the most regulatory body in this country and its ability to kind of manipulate politics. i think that is a very dangerous trend and where it goes, it's hard to know. but i think that's a frightening prospect. beyond that, ben ghazi, bad as it is and the call for impeachment, tht no, sir what the american people are going to vote on. they will vote on whether or not this country is able to get back on its feet. >> that's what they want to hear about. >> you look at another headline today. people still haven't recovered half of what they lost. >> that's right. >> when we went into a recession back in 2008. >> we have a whole generation of young people in this country who

don't remember when america worked. i grew up in an america where you could put a man on the moon, where you could win a world war and you could bring an end to the human geno project. i look at my own kids coming up and they haven't seen an america that works. it's always been dysfunctional. i think a lot of voters are saying prove to us that america works and the ideals we grew up believing in are still relevant. give us a growth program and show us that this country can get on its feet and prove that this energy revolution is real and we can recover our manufacturing base which i think is a real prospect for this country and it's all out there ready for the republican party to embrace in a big, bold, optimistic inclusionary type of statement. >> i think it's going to happen, governor. but washington has to get out of the way. i think we have so many great things to look forward to the next decade. al hunt, it's fascinating. you look at the three, whatever scandals, controversies,

whatever. the irs, ben ghazi, the a.p. we journalists are focused -- we reporters are focused on the a.p. story because it impacts us. you look at polls, though, that is the story americans are least concerned about based on the latest polls. republicans are focused on ben ghazi. real strong party and conservatives because that reinforcing their believe about this administration and hillary clinton and cover-ups during election time but americans aren't as focused on that, but as the governor says, it's the irs scandal that seems to bring both sides together that probably is going to pack the biggest punch as we move forward. >> joe, i agree. i think the one that resonates with people out there and concerns people. i think if republicans think that scandal is going to be their road to a majority party, they are crazy. you talked about the scandals of '98. whatever they were these pale in

comparison. i think your point about 2014 is right, but i don't think the republicans are -- they really can't resist it because there is an article of faith that when midterm elections are about a turnout what turns out that base a hatred for barack obama and i think what raises money on both sides is that extreme negativity. i think they will not heed your advice and i think it's very obama centric. >> when people talk like this, i do this and i do that. i was there before. i've done this before. like i warned barack obama in 2009 and 10:00 and you heard me and they said i was a right wing nut and i said you're lurching to the left and this is what clinton did. you're going to have a republican congress. well, they ignored me and we got a republican congress. did the republican congress go

too far to the right? be careful. you're doing what we did and reelect that democratic president who got you elected and now here we are. it's amazing how the obama administration, the tides of this administration line up with the tides of the clinton administration and now we're in the age of scandal. and now do republicans learn from the past? it's not -- it's like a decade ago. it's not that long ago. do they overreach? >> i wish we taped it ten days ago when i was here and everybody was hysterical around table. a day or two after the irs. i said exactly what we are saying here now. if you go on to the number seven train now and you go, joe -- you said, donny, you don't go on the number seven train. voters don't care about this. >> they care about the irs. >> but they understand it's not a partisan. the irs are a bunch of creepy guys but unless barack obama is on the phone going, hey, let's

go after those super pacts, the american people don't care. they understand government in various areas is corrupt. they don't care if reportseers e being eavesdropped. a scandal is the best thing that happens to the democrat. this takes our eye off the ball and they can't help themselves. they salivate versus a ted cruz who the other day was up speaking about optimistic and versus a chris christie. there is a way to pivot off of this stuff and say it's about incompetency and we need better leadership versus evil. it's incompetency versus evil. >> matt lewis, the fact the public isn't excited about these according to polls, i agree with you that people are more worried about their jobs and doesn't mean we ignore them. we take these individually and they are all very important. is the irs picking on certain groups for idea logical reasons?

is the department of justice reading the e-mails of reporters? what happened in ben ghazi and getting to the truth of that? >> fox news reporters? >> these are important questions to answer so we can't separate those two. maybe the public isn't excited and fascinated about them but they are things we need to talk about and sort out. >> the part of journalism is talking about stories that matter and whether or not it's good for the public. this isn't about scoring points. it's about if somebody did something illegal or unethical they need to be held accountable and frankly we need to set that standard as a warning to the next guy, to the next administration that we do have the rule of law here. but, look. i also want to say this. i think that while we have to take these scandals incredibly seriously, republicans ought to be careful about trying to go after barack obama because i do believe that he -- i don't know what it is. some guys look like a crook like

richard nixon looked like a crook and guys like ronald reagan and i think barack obama, like him or not, he seems like a good guy and i think that it's almost a fool's errant to try to take him down. chris matthews wroo a book a few years ago called "hardball." he had a rule don't get mad, don't get even. get ahead. i think republicans ought to take that advice when it comes to politics. >> that is a great line and the first time in many years that fr anybody ever said take advice from chris matthews so thank you for making a little bit of tv history here. >> it is a good book. >> it is a great book. matthew kennedy's book is a great book and chris is working on one right now. are we allowed to? >> no. it's not our place. >> we will have him on to talk

about it. take a look at this in the religi"the wall street journal." members of the democratic party saying the president has to do a better job surrounding his agenda. talking about all of the scandals and how it plays into different parties and their politics. former clinton labor secretary robert rice says he needs to articulate a clearer vision of why he wants to do in his second term and connect the dots between initiatives and former clinton press secretary dee dee myers saying they need to do more and need to know they need to do more. it's a nonstop process every day of how you tell the story. >> both sides are saying the same thing. you and i and other republicans who like winning elections want to run the white house again. >> that's a good thing, joe. that's right. >> not everybody on our side really cares about that. they would rather run around and screaming and get rich off of that resentment and raise money off of the resentment but those

of us who want to win we need a message. we need a message moving forward on how to make this country great and grow the economy and how to get the middle class back engaged in the economy. the president has got the same problem. democrats saying what is your problem? he got shot down on guns, immigration is in trouble right now. what is the president's plan for his second term? >> well, i don't know that he has a plan and the plan needs to be one thing and that is growth and jobs and our nation's competitiveness but that is not going to happen. >> why is it not going to happen? >> i don't think he has the ability in him to -- what is the best thing for the irs scandal right now? to be talking about tax reform. how do you fix the irs other than defunding it? you clean up the tax code because that keeps the irs in business. we need to clean it out,

deductions and loopholes and all of that stuff. why not having a conversation about the most important aspect of competitiveness which is your tax code. >> if you can't clean up this little mess. >> that should be the core of the republican discussion. >> i want to talk about what the governor just did. he said the president is a good man. but there's no leadership there to get us to where we need to. that is the play. it's not look how evilly or dishonest he is. nice guy, doesn't have the chops, let's go. those are the exact words the governor said is the playbook. >> 75% of americans like the guy. >> he is a good guy. >> some guys are dislikeable but he seems like a good husband and good father. >> i don't think he is dishonest. he is over his head. >> but republicans should completely let the president do what he is doing and let these things be investigated and let the evidence go where it goes and we should be focused on a

completely different agenda for this country and not look back and rebuilding the opportunity ladder which impacts every american and talking about growth prospects because the only thing that matters is this country in a position to pay its debt and handle its financial obligations 20 years from now? with a rising china and world influx we have the competitive framework in place or we don't. the more we delay, the president is meeting with the head of china. what are they going to talk about? two major players on the world stage today. we have got a lot of big thinking to do about how you secure america's role in the world and a big part of that is economics. >> al hunt, do you have a question for jon huntsman? >> i think it's very interesting and i think your points are right on. do you see any republican in washington who is following your advice right now? >> i see a lot of governors across the country who are doing what needs to be done on the

economics. i look at governor snider in michigan who, by the way, i gave my economic ten-point plan to when i was governor. he is doing a great job. i look at those who were engaged in education reform. you can't talk about economics without talking about congregation reform. you have models of success that are happening in states around america and it would be great for the republican party to say, look at what is happening under republican management with republican principles. we are nailing it on a economics and we are nailing it on education, we are creating a more competitive environment. >> what is wrong with the republicans in washington? >> i think there's a much different environment on capitol hill in washington, d.c. i've seen this with the no labels work as well where now we have got 75 members, republicans and democrats, who are a part of this problem solvers coalition did you ever think we get 75?

probably a hundred. they get to washington and they want to do something for their people but they are immediately divided and put in camps and assigned to a team and never able to get together to actually talk through these big issues and to figure out solutions going forward to solve problems. i think a culture is created around conflict. the blame game and finger pointing where out in the states as governor it's a pretty liberating place to be. you either succeed, you either deliver for your people or you're put out of business. you have to keep your eye on the ball and focus on the issues that matter in people's lives. >> it's remarkable you had to create a problem solvers coalition. thank you is what the congress is supposed to be? i want to ask you quickly. what did you learn about the republican party during your presidential run what it takes to win? donny said there were conservatives and republicans who couldn't believe you could get higher in the polls than you really did. >> i was a perfect messenger.

we got in late and all kinds of issues involved. we have a primary process much different than the later general election environment. we have got to do something about bringing our party together around common themes that allow for the primary process to accept people who might be 80% with them as opposed to 100% with them. ronald reagan what did he use to say about the 8% friends? that has somehow be a part of how the republican party remakes itself but it isn't about the party doing autopsies. this is nonsense. nobody cares what a bunch of consultants have to say about the republican party. it's republican leadership that rises up in the grassroots and probably a governor or somebody who has a model of something to prove under their leadship they could change the world and they will drive the republican narrative toward a rebuilt party. >> it's always personal.

a guy named bill clinton when he showed up in washington. >> i was just getting out of school to 1980 and the optimism that reagan brought and bill clinton, same thing in '92. that's how it's going to remake itself. >> governor jon huntsman, thank you so much. you make a lot of sense. >> great to see you. >> thank you. >> the conversation continues on afternoon mojo where governor huntsman will discuss the united states complicated relationship with china. watch his web exclusive later today and mojo.com. thank you, al hunt and matt lewis. up next, david gregory and u nen robinson join the conversation. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. [ female announcer ] now you can apply sunblock

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joining us from washington now is the moderator of "meet the press" david gregory. we have pulitzer prize and columnist of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. welcome to the conversation. >> good morning. >> gene says the gop is too juvenile to governor govern. what do you mean by that, gene? that makes me sad. >> well, yeah, i know. i'm sorry for mincing my words there. no. you know, what are they doing? they are chasing these supposed scandals and they are refusing to move forward with the budget they demanded four years in the senate. these are kind of tantrums at a time when, frankly, the republican party could be making political hay and also doing good things for the country if they would like talk more like

huntsman just did and less frankly like the republicans we have in washington now. >> they would also be doing good things for the president and i don't think they want to do that. >> isn't it striking, listening to jon huntsman talk? >> yeah, it is. >> here's a guy, gene, that eric erickson had news yesterday. he was one guy who said, hey, i'm a conservative. i'm a bedrock conservative. you look at jon huntsman on the issues and he is more conservative than anybody else in the race. yet, he never got accepted by an establishment that really seemed to value resentment over governing and over conservative record. those are the guys. guys that look like that. i've got bad news for my party.

guys that look like that, guys that talk like that, guys that don't scare young pets and little children, those are the guys that win and i will repeat it again. the suburbs of philadelphia. the i-4 corridor. the suburbs of columbus, ohio. denver. those are the guys that get elected president as republicans. a reason why ronald reagan won 49ed states and dwight eisen hauer won 49 states. they were conservative but they knew how to present themselves. >> and they were not angry, resentful people. and jon huntsman is not angry or resentment. had he a fascinating phrase in the last segment. he talked about rebuilding the opportunity ladder in this country. and that really, that was really res nationonating with me becau is something the president talked about when i go around the country and give speeches, i

talk about that and that is something we could agree on as a project, that we could find common ground to take that sort of approach, donny is the expert, but i think that sells a whole lot better than trying to convince people that barack obama is -- >> isn't the problem that kind of project in the united states congress seems very difficult to get going? it's because of the coalitions in congress and politics in congress and why you hear so many republicans talk about the strength of the governors that coming out of the states, that was true on the democratic side as well with bill clinton, with george w. bush, the chief executives who, you know, tried to get a project like that going because i think for as much as republicans are focused on the irs on ben ghazi and on those issues that are going to be good fodder for 2014 it is also republicans who are engaged in immigration reform in the senate

and who are moving that forward. so, you know, there is that work being done. >> david, the pentagon papers lawyer james goodell writes this in the daily beast. it's time for eric holder to resign. asking courts to treat journalists as criminals under is the espionage act has only been asserted once before holder started using it. the difference between nixon and holder is nixon failed in his effort. nixon could not create the precedent that reporters could be treated as criminals. holder has. he should resign. david? >> a couple of issues here. one, what i don't understand on the politics of this is why the administration has done something and then not defended it. if you're going to treat the

leaking of classified information as a serious crime which it is and they believe it is and you gto to the lengths t do it, i don't understand an attorney general saying maybe we ought to take a different look at this. i just don't understand the wishy washiness of the administration including the president on this who on one hand says it's a very serious balance to effect and these are serious crimes who now wants to have all of this reviewed. i guess the second point is how then do you investigate these kinds of crimes? this is what i think is so troubling to journalists the idea you could be named as a coconspirator in an affidavit but then not be tried. lawyers will tell you this kind of thing happens all the time and you could also be tried if you were not listed as a coconspirator in an affidavit like this. it's a question of how these kinds of crimes get investigated

by the government. >> gene robinson, so how do republicans balance this? how does the white house balance it and let's follow up on what david just said. how does barack obama get out in front on this and not seem wishy washy on something that has sparked almost universal outrage? when you got the guy who is involved in the pentagon's papers saying eric holder should resign, the administration is behaving worse than richard nixon did, what do they do? >> first of all, i think that's where the focus should be. who set the tone here? who set the policy that we're going to go after leakers as aggressively as we possibly can? it seems to me that policy was set by the president and executed by the attorney general. so i think president obama should own that, should explain it and then if he now believes

it went too far or was a mistake or whatever, then also explain that and try to create this framework for talking about national security and the public rights to know at a time of perpetual war against terrorism or whatever. he wants to create the framework so let's get on with it. >> i think they are trying to, off the record, though. david gregory, thank you. who are your guests this sunday? >> we will talk more about this in terms of how you deal with intelligence information, national security leaks. mike rogers chairman of the intelligence committee and chuck schumer on this matter and how immigration and the rest is going. >> eugene robinson, thank you as well. >> thank you, gene. >> great to have you. the new generation of alpha dads. is it possible that men are better than women at solving the work life dilemma? >> i'm working on it right now. >> it's the cover story.

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♪ i want to turn to a study and then pew research showing that women have become the bread

winners in this country. >> three-quarters of the people surveyed recognized that having moms as the primary bread winner is bad for kids and marriage and reality shows us that is the truth. look at the natural world. the roles of a male and female in society than other male typically is the dominant role that female is not antithesis or not competing. it's a complimentary role. >> you're seeing the disintegration of marriage and men are hard hit by the economic recession and women weren't. >> bottom line it undermines our social order and it my, in fact, be doing that. >> sometimes art just needs to speak for itself. you let it flow over you. >> tell me that was real, right? >> those guys talking about -- >> it wasn't "saturday night live." >> can i ask the devise around the set here? donny. >> yes. >> if my spouse wants to make

more money than me, i'm good with it! i won't wake up at 4:00 every morning! i'll take care of the kids. i love kids! >> what the heck was that? >> cave man. >> climbed out from under the rocks that there are more women graduating college today. they are the superior gender. >> you talking about women? >> women. only reason i was so successful is surrounding myself with women in my business department. the fact this day and age you could have men talking that way is stunning. >> yes! >> hold on. men are a generational divide. >> we really are. >> eric is a good friend of mine. he is 65 so he is from a different. >> animal. animals. i thought that was interesting. >> we're in a transition here. for a lot of guys, it's difficult. >> i would then counter and try and take what they were saying

seriously which is very difficult for me. but i will just tell you i'll try to counter their arguments and say the problem with our society or social order or whatever else it was that we were so concerned about was them! the cave men! who can't take it! they can't handle it! >> come on. >> you know it! >> fortunately there is a more enlightened breed of men coming up. >> and counter what we are seeing. that was pasty white menstrual! they are lost! >> they are struggling through a tumultuous time. >> it's hard, isn't it? >> our editor sheila wrote a great story about alpha dads, struggling working men like women do juggle the work life balance, not a story that the fox panel is likely to enjoy. but it's great look at how men who want to be dads, who want to have alpha jobs, you know, they

don't have a sheryl shanedbeand some iconic figure leading the way. it's how they make a good of it without giving up. >> who would be like a good example of great sort of alpha dads? >> i think we could -- >> him. >> i'm serious. >> my god. donny deutsche? >> funny you said that about compromising the work. i'm in a different place in my work life' not working a hundred hours a week and have two little girls at home. i wouldn't trade it for the world. in my life curve i figured out how to do both and still have an exciting career and sharing with my family. >> i think it's harder for men in a way. you have the stereo types of a stay at home dad who is a loser and constantly getting notes from his wife. >> i have friends who both work and have young kids. one is not staying at home and

one is not, it's no that. that conversation yesterday is so disrespectful and hard to hear because it completely ignores that we live in an era and world where women are more educated than men? >> where both parents work. >> mika, you're a perfect example of this. >> exactly. >> jim, your husband, like this guy. >> works 12-hour days. >> we are talking about the book party talking about him. every time he sneezes. he has 30 emmys and one of the top investigative reporters and you guys share the kid. you're on the road aechlt. >> bringing up teenage girls and driving them everywhere and driving them everywhere and connected with their lives. >> it's a division of responsibilities. if you just say, okay, raising a family requires x as far as time and finance and emotion and energy and what not. then you have two people who are vital and working it's just sharing of resource. >> let me just say in my home,

we never had the conversation you do this, i'll do that. we both just do it. >> but for men in particular, i think it's also a professional struggle. it is not as easy if you're a man i think to go into your boss and say i want to work part-time and stay on this career track. >> or i have to leave at 6:30 because i have to have ab a concert. my point now that i'm not working full-time crazy i can do that. when i was building my agency, i couldn't do that so is there a challenge for men, no question about it. >> can we play that again? >> just the natural order. >> we are going to go to break. we will be right back with more "morning joe." thank you so much. >> ben messrick is coming up. >> recognized that having moms the primary bread winner is bad for kids and marriages and reality shows us that is the trunel. look at the natural roles of a male and female in society and other animals, the male typically is the dominant role,

the female is not antithesis or is not competing. it's a complimentary role. >> you're seeing the d disintegration women and men hit in hard ways that women weren't. >> bottom line it could undermine our social order. >> it may, in fact, be doing that. ready?

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if you go over, you win. if the dealer goes over, they lose. it's the most popular card game in the world. >> it's a game of memory. cards drawn of the past. once become the future. >> the best part, it's beatable. >> are you talking about counting cards? >> no. i'm talking about getting very, very rich. >> that was the scene from the 2008 film "21." adapted from ben messrick's book "bringing down the house." ben joins us now. out with his latest book high risks and high rewards. the true story of six college friends who dealt their way to a billion dollar online poker empire and how it all came crashing down. donny? >> this is an incredible story. the fact that these kids are from montana. are these mit guys?

a bunch of guys from university of montana and hard scrabble backgrounds and one was so poor he sold a cow to buy his first car. they played poker in a bar and put it online and earning a million dollars a day and moved their frat to costa rica. crazy girls and things college kids would do there. the united states government it illegal and they are fugitives now. one turned himself and doing 14 months in prison doing an online gambling site. >> what is legal and illegal? >> it got very fuconfusing. when they started the company nothing illegal about it. in 2006 made it illegal if a state could show it was legal in that state. these guys kept in business in 2011 and brought down on something called black friday where the department of justice

raided these sites and shut them down. it's still not clear what is legal and illegal. >> they were in costa rica. >> that is legal, right? >> it's legal there in most countries in the world. but if you play from here the movement of money from you to them became illegal. >> illegal for the person sending the money? >> no. you can play poker online and it is not illegal and owning a site is not illegal but if money moves from a player in state where it is illegal to a company where it is legal the person who receives the money is now committing a crime. bank fraud with no actual fraud. but it is now becoming legal in the u.s., legal in nevada, legal in new jersey and slowly will become legal but these guys will still be facing indictments on something that is no longer illegal. >> back to gambling like bringing down the house, what are the differences here? some people say you're just repricing a similar story. >> not similar at all. the f.i.t. story was a group of geeky kids who essentially found a way to beat vegas. these guys became the house.

college kids, frat brothers, kind of jocks and they built a poker empire overseas so it is that exotic locale. and, you know, the absurdity of poker law and online gaming laws is what got me into it. we were all lining up for powerball tickets a couple weeks ago and these guys are going to jail for -- >> are they criminals? >> i don't think so. i don't think they should be. as long as it's regulated, as long as there is an age limit people should be allowed to play poker. it is one of those gray areas of our world where gambling, some people think all gambling should be illegal. some people think some gambling should be illegal. i don't know where you draw the line. >> the story line includes kind of a wild lifestyle. >> there was one of the biggest broth els in the world was a couple blocks from where they built their house. they moved their frat to costa rick anchts right down the street from a brothel? >> love stories, we all love stories about young guys who play a bit outside the line, go like this, and crash. >> yeah.

the great american stories of people who built something out of nothing and had it taken away. then huge money. a million dollars a day coming in. >> wow. >> joe scarborough money. >> there you go. >> mitt romney money. >> all right. the book is, "straight flush" the true story of six college friends who dealt their way to a billion dollar online poker empire and how it all came crashing down. thank you so much, ben. >> you've done it again, ben. >> i like the hair. >> the hair is -- >> good hair. >> i'm trying to raise the stock market with this hair. >> i like it. >> you're doing a good job. still ahead former white house senior adviser david axelrod will join us. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ female announcer ] love. it's the most powerful thing on the planet. love holds us in the beginning. comforts us as we grow old. love is the reason you care.

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up next we'll tell you why the romneys are back in the news taking shots at the obama administration and we'll explain exactly what is going on here. we'll be right back. mine was earned in djibouti, africa. 2004. vietnam in 1972. [ all ] fort benning, georgia in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation.

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good morning. it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast 5:00 a.m. on the west coast as you take live look at new york city. it is friday morning. you're lying in bed, willie your recommendation? >> get up and get to work. >> stay there. i wouldn't go in at all today don't go in. your boss has been -- seriously, too much. i don't know how to say this politely. i'll just say it this way. if you are not in your bed alone, really don't get up. >> all right. >> seriously. do i have to even tell you this? stay in bed.

back with us onset. harold ford jr. you know, mika, a little known fact. a lot of people don't know willie and i, 65 to 68, were together in nam. >> okay. this is going to end up in the holiday inn on 57th street somehow. it always does. >> if i can just say we have our reunion of the guys that went. i can't call it what we called it. okay? we were in the bucket, man. but anyway, so willie, he's still doing it. i kind of got out of shape. >> got out of the game. >> out of the game. smoked a few. they still called willie back and they say, hey willie, we need your help in a secret location. so willie showed off yesterday. >> what? >> what are we looking at here? >> is this willie? >> that's old army training. >> that is a tough mudder they call that. one of these adventure races. that's the end of a long obstacle course. it's a greased up quarter pipe so they lube it up. >> oh, my.

>> the real problem was, let's be honest, i was up at the top every time. i wasn't getting a lot of help. >> who is that? >> here's the thing. i'm a big man. >> you're big. >> i'm about 6'4", 210. that is asking a lot. >> willie. >> will, you, please, catch him. who is up there not catching you? >> there were a couple tough mudder guys who eventually stepped in to help me and then yanked me up there. i think this is the one where i finally get up there. >> looks like a recipe for a -- >> there we go. there it is. >> come on now, y'all. >> i got the orange shirt guys helping me. that's the key. >> put someone else in who actually helped you out. >> they got, natalie, matt, and al got up on the first try and it took me six times to get up there. >> something is askew. >> yes. then i really wanted to stay and help savannah. >> i'm sure you did. >> her problem was she went barefoot. >> what is she doing? >> we jumped in an ice bath so she took her shoes off and that

just killed it. no traction. >> you've got to have shoes. >> but eventually everybody made it up to the top. those things are incredible. i've done one in real life, a spartan raid, like a tough mudder, they take the life out of you. really hard. that was fun yesterday. i talked to a doctor. i think the actual term is, the medical term is you broke your ass. >> yes i did. thank you for remembering. i quite literally broke my tail ban. >> that's not good. >> congratulations. >> well thank you. >> we're going to start with economic news. two days ago the dow hit, yet, another record high but according to a new analysis by the federal reserve that's nothing for most americans to cheer about. this is what we're talking about here. six years after the peak of the recession, american households have rebuilt less than half of the wealth lost during the slowdown. according to the analysis, households lost nearly $16 trillion of wealth from the start of the crisis through the final quarter of 2009.

and despite the appearance of recovery, those same households have only gained back 45% of that wealth lost. the report also showed that the improvements were mainly for wealthy families due to the stock market gains. recovery for lower income families has been even weaker. >> and we had a couple days ago steve rattner on. rattner came back with the charts and was talking about how things were going so much better for people on wall street but there remains, willie, we've seen it time and time again over the past couple years this huge disconnect between wall street and main street. a huge disconnect. >> we see the dow go well up over 15,000. the recovery has been great if you're rich. if you're invested in the stock market you're doing great. a lot of that wealth is people, if they get -- they're lucky enough to get a job after they lose their job they have to take a job that is much less than the one they have. they accept lower wages. wages have stagnated. they're not -- the middle class is not recovering at all the way

that the top 0.1% of the country is. >> half way back, al hunt, even if you recover 45% you spend most of that time trying to pick up the pieces. there is such a huge gap here between the rich and the poor and yet this great economic news on certain levels will be here with the dow, with the housing, with bigger indicators. has nothing to do with what is really happening in america. >> there really is a huge gap. real disposable income for most average americans has actually declined when you adjust for inflation over the past ten years. it certainly hasn't declined for lloyd blankfein or other people on wall street. there has been a very uneven recovery. there are signs it is getting better. the deleveraging has basically improved a great deal. housing prices which affect every -- almost everyone -- are rebounding. but there is still a very uneven recovery and you had an income and quality gap that was larger than almost any place in the

world to start with and has only been exacerbated. >> isn't there any responsibility on the part of those doing extremely well on some of the bailed out entities to focus on this in some way? >> what do you want them to do? >> i don't know. >> hand out cash? >> we talk about wall street the best thing we can do is elect leaders that help grow the entire economy. it is not going to be a top down, trickle down answer or government. it just doesn't work. >> harold? >> i agree. we talk about wall street we talk about it much more broadly. lloyd blankfein is one example, a very small class of people to al's point. people who are invested in the market, willie's point, the problem is you have this enormous and -- the growth in the market above 15,000 and people who just don't have the skill set, education has to be part of it. you look at better paying jobs, creating jobs but the jobs

created are not dependable for a long period of time and certainly don't help people begin to build and find a way to the middle class. they're making a lot less on average are they not than when they lost their job? >> i think in the big picture that's true. there is another reason why the middle class hasn't really participated in this recovery. a big reason is that home prices have essentially been stagnant. a lot of people have wealth tied up in their house. they're under water. the big news this week though year over year home prices are up 10% and are expected to continue. as that recovers middle class people will recover but you can only go so far without a well paying job that is the single biggest investment all americans enjoy. >> and savings vehicle. >> and the savings rate has gone up in the country but the challenge is people aren't able to create wealth because of the disposable income number al touched on has not risen. how do banks deal with this? how do large corporations deal with this? you got to create an environment where growth comes back. i think the conversation in washington has been a very stale and narrow and predictable one,

either more cuts or tax, more spending cuts or tax increases. there should be a bigger focus on how do you reform the tax code, how do you deal with the interview revolution and the way we continue to create better paying jobs. >> you see the romneys are back in the news? >> i saw that. >> anne is coming out saying some stuff about the president. >> okay. >> mitt's talking about he's inviting some -- >> they have their pnls. >> -- inviting rich people out to la jolla to talk to him. >> could be very interesting. >> look at my car. look at the money. >> oh, gosh. very nice -- >> a good man. >> yesterday anne romney weighed in on the multiple -- >> he is a good man. he is a really good man. why are you guys laughing? >> the recovery. >> he's a good man. >> enjoying it. >> if i had that much money i'd -- >> it's friday. >> speaking of cars, it is friday so i can really go off the rail. you want me, mika, to tell you about my dream last night?

>> tell me about your dream last night. >> a weird dream. >> it was a weird dream, man. so i'm on this bus and we're going around. i go up to tell the bus driver i want off at the next stop, right? we're weaving through traffic. the bus driver is sleeping. >> my gosh. >> is sleeping. i nudge him. what do you want? i go you're sleeping. what are you doing sleeping? she's like, the bus drives itself. oh, it's one of these new fangled the bus drives itself buses right? so i wake up this morning, harold, and it's freaky. what's on the front page? i just had this dream last night my friends. what is on the front page? but the united states of america is approving, mika, these cars that drive themselves. >> well, too bad there is no infrastructure for them to drive themselves. >> my dream was ahead of its time, willie. >> yeah. >> you may say i'm a dreamer.

>> yeah. >> but i'm not the only one. >> all right. i'm going to have to ask you to leave. >> special for the show? >> mika, the romneys are back. >> all right. >> that is kind of weird though. >> it is. >> having this dream and then look at this. chills. there is so much news today. >> like the walking dead. that's freaky, man. the romneys are back in the news. >> take a look. >> i think there's breach of trust that we as all americans feel right now with our governments. if we look at the three scandals going on right now, in particular i saw the polling numbers with the -- how people are upset with the irs scandal, we have to have trust in our government. we have to believe that they're doing right for us. we feel like they're breaking our trust. it's deeply troubling. >> i turn to the bus driver and i'm saying, what are you doing? >> yeah. what are you doing?

>> she says one of these new fangled buses. why is she doing that? >> i don't know. i don't really know. mitt romney is also back in the public spotlight revealing plans to campaign for 2014 republican candidates. in an interview with "the wall street journal", also in the interview romney speaks out against the obama administration echoing his wife, ann, but also taking it a step further, saying, quote, even more disappointing than the controversies has been the lack of any clear agenda in the first 100 days. the only thing that has come forward has been immigration reform, which is very important, and that has been done entirely by the senate. we are now over a hundred days and we have yet to see any particular agenda. >> all right, all right. i've heard enough. al hunt, what is going on here? shouldn't the romneys just kind of hang out in la jolla for a couple more years before they start weighing in? >> i think that would be the hope of most republicans around the country. i want to find out who those republicans are that want mitt romney to come and campaign for them. i am pleased, however, joe, that finally after 2008 and 2012 that

he is supportive of immigration reform. it's a shame he didn't tell voters about that in the last election. >> you know he almost -- he almost did, al. he almost did in iowa actually. and then he decided instead he'd go the opposite direction. and actually lamblast rick perry and call him a liberal on immigration. he is tone deaf, remains tone deaf. nice, likeable people. we talked to some of their very close friends over the past couple days who say we love the guy and always have but he's in the wrong profession. >> a wonderful family. >> he can turn businesses around. he should not be running for public office. i would just say, having him out and now having ann romney out on cbs this morning, i don't think it's helpful for the republican brand right now. we've got an election to run in 2014 and we need to win that election. >> if they want to quietly write checks, al, i encourage that. >> he can do that. okay. thank you, al.

>> he's got like cars and garages. >> we'll get back to al on some of these stories. the "new york times." >> also, rutgers goes from scandal to -- there isn't more is there on julie herman? is there more? >> there may be. there may be. >> there is. >> is this fair? >> other players. >> would they do this to a man? i just want to know. >> yes. >> really? is it that bad? what has she done? >> if i'm not mistaken -- >> there is a pending lawsuit in kentucky. >> that's bad. >> they didn't know about that? >> i think that's what "the times" -- >> she lost -- they front on the front go round. the challenge was that there was a coach there who complained about discrimination. >> yes. >> her head coach, that the plaintiff claims julie herman and louisville tried to brush it aside. she sued. they won at that level and they

overturned. >> they said she was fired because of -- >> isn't it still pending in kentucky? >> they're waiting to see if the kentucky state supreme court will take it. >> still ahead on "morning joe" would you know how to spell canagle? a 13-year-old kid from new york did. taking home the trophy for the 2013 national spelling bee. why he says he is now ready to retire and do some other things. up next, david axelrod. what is wrong with you all? david axelrod and joe conason join the conversation but first bill karins who really should retire. >> he should. >> i wish. >> seriously. >> we'll help you out. >> that's pushing it. good morning, everyone. here's the deal for the weekend. we are going to see an end to our severe weather threat thankfully. yesterday 16 tornadoes, a bunch here in areas of arkansas. pretty much to the west side there of little rock and as we go throughout the day today the same exact areas once again are going to be looking at the threat of severe storms.

already this morning torrential rain on i-70 right through missouri. flash flooding, the big issue right now outside of kansas city. and then as we go through the afternoon hours we'll do it all over again. a new complex will form. chicago looking at major delays late today. even detroit, indianapolis, st. louis we could have flash flooding problems. but the tornado threat is an area of red. we call it the moderate risk sel severe storms. traveling 44 today the storms will form near oklahoma city and then be super cells with the potential of strong, violent tornadoes, maybe only one or two. that's all it takes. we'll track those during the late afternoon and early evening. looks like local time probably 5:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. is the greatest threat time there. the forecast for the weekend all the bad weather in the next two days is still right over the mississippi river valley and then by sunday all that nasty weather gets to the east coast and, finally, after about six days in a row, the midwest will dry out and then we'll watch the rivers coming up. you're watching "morning joe"

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welcome back to "morning joe." former senior adviser to president obama, now director of the university of chicago institute of politics and an msnbc contributor david axelrod here onset. the editor of national memo.com

joe conason. donny deutsch is still with us as well as brian shactman. joe conason today on national memo.com his column is watergate amnesia, the nixonian slur, and other big lies. part of it he writes this. let's state this very simply so everybody will understand. i'm trying to read it with the contempt joe would read it with if he had a southern accent. the notion that barack obama is nixonian or that his administration's recent troubles bear any resemblance to watergate is the biggest media lie since the phony whitewater scandal crested during the republican presidency. but yet we have this morning "the daily beast." the pentagon papers lawyer james goodall actually talking about it is time for eric holder to resign and saying actually he went beyond what richard nixon did by actually criminalizing journalism. is this a lie? >> i have to say i have the highest regard for jim goodall,

my lawyer when i worked at the new york observer. he is a great lawyer. he has a little off the deep end. i don't think he is lying because i think he really believes it. i think other people like mitch mcconnell say this and they know it is not true. karl rove. >> how do you square this up with a guy you have deep respect for saying that actually -- >> i'd say that why jim in his professional life is a first amendment absolutist. you need people like that. that doesn't mean everything he is saying is -- >> should eric holder resign? >> i don't believe eric holder should resign. i don't think there is any reason for him to resign because we need to look at -- here is the question, joe. does the government need to keep any secrets? does the government need to keep any secrets? >> well, that's a false choice. >> well, wait. right. so of course they need to keep some secrets. what should they do to keep a secret? if somebody is leaking from in the government, important information about sources that we have in north korea, sources we have in al qaeda and yemen, that is endangering them, what

is the government -- i say this as a journalist. what is the government supposed to do about that? >> obviously a balanced statement. axelrod, let's pick up on this statement. the pentagon papers lawyer james goodall says it is time for eric holder to resign and you've heard the conversation, i'm sure you read the article. he says this is not nixonian because nixon didn't even go this far. how would you respond to james? a lot of your good friends in the media who are really offended by what is going on. >> on the face of it, it's not true because nixon used those powers to go after political enemies, to go after what he considered enemies in the press. you know, these leak investigations started because people were accusing the administration -- people in the administration of leaking information to make the administration look good. >> look good, right. >> so it is a completely different situation but i think joe gets to the fundamental point, which is we have to find a way to balance what is an obvious concern, which is we

can't let sensitive security information into the public domain if it is going to threaten people in the field, threaten national security operations. on the other hand, we also have to balance that against the freedom of the press, which is so fundamental to who we are. the question is what kinds of policies do we need to enact in order to make that happen. the president and others have supported this shield law. is that strong enough? are there other things that need to be done? should there be an independent bypass so that if you want to subpoena records that you have to go to a judge. >> right. >> which is what the shield law says. i think all of those things -- that is the -- >> absolutely not. >> you say absolutely not. he was carrying out his responsibilities, joe. did he over reach? >> i think that, well, you know, i'm always uncomfortable with the notion of a reporter being named as a coconspirator in a

petition. i'm not sure i know that the assertion was made it was only done once before. i don't know whether that is -- i don't think that should be the case. we should not hold the reporter responsible for doing a reporter's job. >> should eric holder take this so far as to apologize to this guy, this james rosen guy for naming him and this -- as a possible coconspirator in an espionage case? do you think that might help? >> well, i'm not sure if this is a matter of assauging mr. rosen's sensitivities. >> the american people. >> it is really a matter, joe, a matter of this is what the law permits and how do we go about this in the right way moving forward based on these experiences? i don't think what eric holder did, anything that he did was, you know, against this notion that somehow he had, you know, criminal -- we should have a

prosecutorial -- >> you say making you uncomfortable. i wonder if it made the people feel uncomfortable, right. >> yes. guess what? i think we ought to -- that's why i think we had these meetings, there was a big to-do about who would go and who wouldn't go and so on. i think it is constructive to have discussions about these matters and put ideas on the table about how to best proceed from here. that would be the constructive way to approach this situation. >> so, donny mirks question is this apology thing, not about james rosen, not about sensibilities. just about you're in administration. you've obviously over reached, eric holder now telling people he feels uncomfortable with what happened here and he looks at the press reports like wow, did we really do that? don't you think it would be a great -- i think just a pr move to say you know, we over reached. we screwed up. i apologize to james rosen and his family. >> i tell you what i would do. >> this is pure pr. >> pure pr. david can't say this. i would say i'm the attorney general of this country.

i care about one thing. protecting you the american people. in reality the american people could give a hoot if they are looking up a journalist's skirt. if you say to the american public you know what? sometimes we do have to punch and look a little bit because these leaks put our men in danger. these leaks put us in danger. there is not one american that is going to raise a hand and go i stand biry james rosen. there are a lot of grays here. i have one job. i'm the guy on the fence. i want to protect this country. the last thing i would do is apologize. >> he does not just have one job. as attorney general gonzalez was taught, you have more than one job. it's not just protecting the american people from harm. you also have to balance that with protecting the constitution. >> i appreciate that. but on the politics -- >> you appreciate that? >> i do. donny is right on the politics. what have you to notice -- the big difference in this administration is they're not

doing that. they're not going after national security. they are not playing that card of patriotism. we might have gone too far. we were over zealous because we are trying to protect the american people but, you know, keep in mind what the difference is here. the attorney general when richard nixon was president called up the reporters at washington post and said if you don't stop investigating us, drunken at midnight, katy graham, the publisher, the sainted katherine graham the publisher is going to get a piece of her anatomy caught in a big fat wringer. a direct threat. they went after their fcc licenses. there were physical threats against woodward, bernstein, and mrs. graham. that is nothing like this. that's why these comparisons are outrageous and ridiculous. >> a drunk guy who is attorney general. okay? >> but actually, i mean, i think they would rather take those verbal threats and actually be named as possible

coconspirators. >> silly here. >> i'm saying this is actually more serious than some drunk mid yot calling people up at midnight, actually naming somebody as a possible coconspirator in an espionage case. >> they are not indicting any reporters. >> david, you know, you talk about maybe an apology but we know the american people care about this less than benghazi and the irs. we know conservatives are going -- as a former journalist we know if the subtle intent was to spook the media no matter what is said, i don't know what real changes will be made but it already served its purpose. to me as a journalist that is a major problem and i don't see any real change that is going to turn that around any time soon. >> let me say this. i don't think it is going to spook the media at all. >> it already has. we have stories anecdotal stories, sources drying up left and right. >> that is a different matter. let me just say last summer everybody was clamoring for when are they going to shut down the

leakers? now some of the same people are calling these whistle blowers and rallying to their defense. some things can't be public because they will jeopardize national security. the question is how do you do that responsibly? look, there is no responsible news organization that isn't going to continue to plow away. i've said before when officials would threaten me my newspaper would put them on the front page every day just to send a message. i don't think the ap, the "new york times", certainly not fox news, they're not going to pull their horns in because of this. but it may discourage some people who take a sworn oath that they're not going to release highly classified information. it may persuade them they shouldn't do that. is that really a bad thing? >> again, as a former journalist, a guy that loves journalism, loves chicago, obviously some sad news.

chicago sun times yesterday laying off all of their photographers. >> unbelievable. >> wow. >> stunning. look, i grieve for what has happened in the newspaper industry. i grew up. i was raised, literally, i started two days after college at the chicago tribune and those folks raised me and it was the end of the front page era. the story was everything. they threw resources at it. they backed their reporters up and it was a wonderful place to be. but the front page era yielded to the bottom line era and the realities of changing times and technology and now the question is how do you make money by doing good reporting? and there are all kinds of consequences to that but this was really stunning. if you live in chicago the notion to see that happen at a paper that's been such a foundational institution in the city was really depressing.

>> but a reality, not an economic story but a technology story. >> david, we appreciate it. >> good to see you guys. >> david mustache, bring it back. bring back the mustache. >> come on. if i can make another million you know. >> like chris christie losing weight. it's part of the whole thing. your mustache. >> you're worried about chris christie losing weight? >> yes. it's going to affect his brand. i don't think he should do it. >> like you and shaving. >> i took an ounce off. >> bring it back, buddy. >> all right. beef might be off the menu at your barbecue this summer. we'll explain why. prices are going to be explodi g exploding. talk about that when business before the bell continues. oh, he's a fighter alright.

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all right. 35 past the hour let's get to business before the bell now with cnbc's michelle caruso carera. >> may, it looks like it will be the sechkt month in a row the major averages finish in positive territory, a great run for stocks. there is a lot of debate about what is happening. are we at the so-called

inflection point because interest rates have started to rise sharply. don't get me wrong. they are still historically low levels but ben bernanke when he testified last week, everybody is still debating what did he say? he is the head of the power reserve, has the power to move interest rates. is he going to ease up, try to think of it like a beach ball submerged under water. for example a 30-year fixed rate mortgage is at 4%, above 4%. six months ago you could have gotten 3.5%. we have to see what happens. cost of mortgages going up, so is the cost of beef. 3.51 a pound up sharply from just 18 months ago. there is a drought that has led to a lot here with cattle being produced. people still like to eat beef for their big barbecues. we're seeing beef highs we haven't seen and as you can see in "usa today" when it's on the cover of "usa today" you know it is a huge story. >> big story. michelle caruso carera, thank you. have a great weekend. some people are doing really well. why can't they just -- brian shactman, all your fault. >> my fault.

up next is america losing its faith? georgetown theology professor, father kevin o'brian joins us with why americans say they want more religion in their lives. faith on fridays is next. ♪ i' 'm a hard, hard ♪ worker every day. ♪ i' ♪ i'm a hard, hard worker and i'm working every day. ♪ ♪ i'm a hard, hard worker and i'm saving all my pay. ♪ ♪ if i ever get some money put away, ♪ ♪ i'm going to take it all out and celebrate. ♪

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(guy vo) we got a subaru to take us new places. (girl) yeah, it's a hot spring. (guy) we should do that. (guy vo) it did. (man) how's that feel? (guy) fine. (girl) we shouldn't have done that. (guy) no. (announcer) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. all right. joining us from washington for faith on fridays is georgetown university chaplain father kevin o'brien. very good to have you on the show this morning. >> good morning, mika. good to be here. >> even better if we had a mike on you. >> the thing is, that's the problem with the liberal, godless media. they go okay. we're going to invite somebody to talk about faith. we're just not going to give him a microphone. >> we're not going to give him a voice. >> a jesuit. >> we go to t.j. seriously so the research family council can

see who is responsible for this promotion on tv? t.j., all your fault. >> it's my fault. i apologize. >> why do you hate religion? >> forgive me, father. >> i don't. father is fantastic. i think he is ready. >> is he ready now? >> great. >> thank you. >> hey, father. how you doing? >> hello. >> okay. we can hear you now. fantastic. they actually got your mike. okay. now we're all ready to go. >> all good. >> so, father, we saw in the gallup poll this week something very interesting and it poses a real challenge. more than 3/4 of americans say religion is losing influence on american life. at the same time 75% say american society would be better off if more americans were religious but you have two different trends. people falling away from the church. >> and we were talking before the break about people needing

it now more than ever, given hard times. so it is certainly -- the reason we do faith on fridays and we bring in different voices, and, of course, this voice we're hoping to be able to hear. father, are you there? >> he can't hear. he can't hear really? >> i tell you what. we're going to go to break and we'll be right back. can we get some -- somebody here as a director that actually loves jesus? seriously? loves god? anything? we'll be right back in a second. . there was this and this. she got a parking ticket... ♪ and she forgot to pay her credit card bill on time. good thing she's got the citi simplicity card. it doesn't charge late fees or a penalty rate. ever. as in never ever. now about that parking ticket. [ grunting ] [ male announcer ] the citi simplicity card is the only card that never has late fees, a penalty rate, or an annual fee, ever. go to citi.com/simplicity to apply.

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get to washington, d.c. for faith on fridays. georgetown university chaplain father kevin o'brien. are you all there? have the forces of evil been swept away? can you hear us? >> yes. the mute can speak the deaf can hear. >> amen. all the people said? >> amen. >> which means of course t.j. is not working. >> yeah. >> we were talking to you about a recent gallup poll. more than 3/4 americans say religion is losing its influence on american life. at the same time the same 75% say we'd all be better off, america would be better off if more americans were religious. i guess the first question is, why do we continue to see americans falling away from the church from the synagogue, from the mosque? >> yeah. or the christian churches. i think the people feel sometimes alienated from religious institutions as they do from governmental

institutions. when we get too fixated on ideological division i think in the churches we have seen some, certainly in the catholic church the sexual abuse scandal has disaffected many. and what the churches and the synagogues and mosques need to do is get back to the basics. in our case to preach the gospel. to focus on what we're most deeply about. i think people yearn for meet i -- meaning. they are yearning for some answers to very human, very deep questions. >> i'll ask you if you were a politician what are you about? what is the church mainly about? what is your mission that has been lost over the past 30 years? >> the message. >> yeah. i think our message, i think i take a cue from pope francis who i think in his style the last couple months is really getting back to basics. he is, in the case of the christian church, he is preaching the gospel of jikesus christ. talking about the poor, helping people find meaning in their lives, inviting people to

encounter jesus. for the christian that's a very attractive message. in the mosque and the synagogue the same thing. the more we get back to the basics of our message, the less distracted we become by scandal and ideology the better we are as a religious institution. i think people are longing to hear that. >> joe conason, obviously you are not a public but i saw you when we were talking about the new pope. >> yes. >> here is a guy who seems he actually lived the life jesus talked about in matthew 25 when he talked about when i was hungry you gave me something to eat. when i was thirsty you gave me something to drink. when i was a stranger you invited me in. talking about visiting people in prisons. focusing on the hopeless. >> my wife is catholic and we have a statue of st. francis in our kitchen. a little icon of st. francis because that's our favorite saint. and i think it's very important that the new pope is sending a message that i think appeals across religious lines. as the father said, about the

poor, about the responsibilities of big institutions to everybody in the world. and i think it's clear he is drawing huge numbers in rome every time he speaks. because his message is appropriate to this time. certainly on economic issues. >> mika, you are a catholic obviously. >> yes. i think like many catholics i watched the scandal unfold with great disappointment and discouragement as a catholic. but i still hold my faith very tightly. yet, father, you look at the numbers of americans who have no faith at all. i believe it's growing rapidly and it's one in five. one in five people in the american public. and a third of adults under 30 are religiously unaffiliated. how would you explain that? and is there room for the catholic church to do some work? >> absolutely. i mean, you're right. that is the pew form of survey from last december.

a fifth of all americans say they are not affiliated with any religious institution. i mean, a small portion of those are agnostic or atheist but most describe themselves as spiritual but not religious. that is they're seeking some answers. they're longing for something to touch their heart. they're longing for god and not finding it in any one particular religious institution. i think for anyone in the religion business like myself that it is a call to us to above all listen to that longing. they are longing for god. i think we do better when we listen first to what that longing is about and then share our tradition. let me go back to st. francis of assisi, the pope's patron saint. listen, i'm a jesuit priest. i'm proud to be a jesuit. he took the name of st. francis and it was st. francis who said, preach the gospel and only if necessary use words. to the extent that we are -- >> i love that line. >> to the extent we are living our faith no matter what it is, it is the better proclaimers of

that faith we will be. >> steve large ent one time told me, steve is a very devout christian but he didn't go around, you know, he didn't wear it on his sleeve and he said his favorite saying was along these lines. he said, it came from mother teresa, which was, work as if there is no such thing as prayer. and pray as if there is no such thing as work. and that's the line -- lead by your example. >> it is so intimidating. i'm jewish and you are in an interfaith relationship but all the people in my sort of band are spiritual but not religious. that's the line they get all the time that father o'brien just said. they are so either intimidated by the church or the synagogue because they don't want to be part of some rote rhythm that doesn't feel like it has a real soul to it some people say. what do you say to the people that are searching but are so intimidated or don't really respect the contemporary approach of these institutions? i don't know how you get them back. >> well, i think what gets them

back or what invites them back in is a real call to humility. that is, the churches must be in a more listening posture. that is to invite and welcome. and this is what this pope, st. francis, i think the reason why he has, pope francis has spoken to so many people across the religious traditions is that he is a humble man and he is in this listening posture. remember when he came out on the balcony above st. peter's square the first thing he did was to ask for the people's blessing. and the world was quiet for a few moments as he received their blessing. i think all of us in my business of religion would do better when we listen first. and i think people -- they have a story to tell. they have a longing to express for the transcendent, for god. the churches and religious traditions have something to tell them but before speaking we have to listen first with all humility. and i think this pope is leading the way frankly for me he is making me a better priest if i just follow his example.

>> joe? >> it's interesting, father, the pope said something the other day about, that i think addresses what brian was talking about. he said atheists can meet the church and where they will meet the church is in good works. he said atheists actually can be, can find grace, which was a remarkable thing for a pope to say. >> absolutely. and, you know, other popes and religious leaders in the catholic church have said sometimes those nonbelievers or seekers do a better job at their faith rather than those who just go about speaking their religion but not living it out. those actions have got to be coupled with belief for us to truly be examples of faith. >> well, thank you so much for being with us, father. >> you're welcome. >> i just ask really quickly, we've had a lot of scandals in the church. do you think that the catholic church's position with americans might be bet fer you guys ex-communicated mike barnicle. would that help? >> no.

mike is my friend and he is a georgetown parent. we want mike. >> just joking. mike actually gave me fascinating trivia. we were coming on and he said that you and i actually went to law school together. that you were a year behind me at florida. >> i think i was a year behind you at florida law school but i didn't see you on the law review, joe. >> seriously? you have just helped yourself and a lot of people that don't like me. no i was not on the law review. i was playing music. i was in a band. that is my excuse and i'm sticking with it. >> father o'brien thank you so much. >> great to have you here. >> thank you all. >> barnicle is a great guy and of course his son goes to georgetown. exactly. we'll be right back. i've always had to keep my eye on her... but, i didn't always watch out for myself. with so much noise about health care... i tuned it all out. with unitedhealthcare, i get information that matters...

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dominant role. the female is not competing. it's a complementary role. >> you're seeing the disintegration of marriage. you're seeing men who were hard hit by the economic recession in ways women weren't. >> bottom line, it could undermine our social order. >> and it may in fact be doing that. >> too much. >> social order is going to be undermined if somebody works and i get to stay home? i want that. i want that. what's that? >> do those gentlemen or whatever we should call them, do they know that women work there? i'm just wondering. >> they have wives i assume. >> what is up? >> proper context. all good men. >> all good cave men. with important things to say. >> cave men are men, too. thank god for me. what are you doing? >> i got to check out the new poll more closely. sounds more interesting than i

expected. >> something you don't usually hear on "morning joe." >> i found out why you didn't make the law review and that was important to know. >> yeah. >> played too much music. >> you guys have a great weekend. thank you so much for watching this week. we really do appreciate it. mika is still recovering from what she saw. >> oh, no. i'm good. >> if it's way too early it's "morning joe." stick around now. the legendary luke is straight ahead. with the attorney general still trying to put an uproar to rest, president obama tries to break a streak of tough summers. starting today with a push on student loan interest rates. coal case. with less and less used in the u.s. energy companies are looking overseas for customers. we'll tell you how one country in the northwest corner of the u.s. could be crucial for the future of the world economy and the environment. and the gangster who spent 16 years on the run and once called alcatraze