machine that rolls ever onward, hopefully to oblivion. thanks so much for watching. chris matthews and "hardball" is next. it's the economy, stupid. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with that very point. it's the economy, stupid. everything i've seen in politics tells me this. we can argue issues every night here, but i know from experience it's how people feel about their own circumstances, whether they're working or not, how prices are doing, interest rates that determine whether they get to take the family out to dinner on friday night or get to buy new shoes for the kids. whether they get to go intsomewe fun on vacation. the numbers are looking better.

the value of your house is heading upward because the average selling price is up 10%. your 401(k) is probably doing better if you're retired because the stock market is. you've got a better chance of finding, also holding a job right now. the unemployment rate which still ain't great has come down from where it was down to the mid-7s. when somebody calls up, a pollster, for example, asks whoever it is how you're doing, you're more likely to say president obama is doing a better job on the economy and that's what's going on right now. will it still be going on next november when we have the next congressional elections? we'll see. jim cramer is going to help us. he's the host of "mad money" weeknights at 6:00 on cnbc. u.s. congressman steve israel is chairman of the democratic congressional committee. thank you, gentlemen. there's strong indications the u.s. economy is on the upswing right now. gross domestic product rose 2.5% in the first quarter of 2013. the deficit is projected to be down, or only down to 642. it was in the trillions. that's nearly half of what it was in 2010. meanwhile, the dow jones, adds i

said, is finishing the month up 3%. consumer confidence is higher than it was. ever since july of 20 07. and home prices, as i said, are up about 11% over the last year. it's the biggest increase in home prices in seven years. today the president emphasized measuring the country's progress on the economy is more than just about the stock market. it's about how ordinary families are feeling. he made it clear the economy is, indeed, picking up steam. let's watch him. >> over the past 4 1/2 years, we've been fighting our way back from a financial crisis and an incredibly punishing recession. the good news is today our businesses have created nearly 7 million new jobs over the past 38 months. the housing market is coming back, the stock market has rebounded. our deficits are shrinking at the fastest pace in 50 years. people's retirement savings are growing again. the rise of health care costs are slowing. the american auto industry is

back. so we're seeing progress, and the economy is starting to pick up steam. the gears are starting to turn again and we're getting some traction. >> let me go right to jim cramer. you know your stuff. i was thinking that opening question is my favorite tonight. i hope you can answer it. the economy is getting a little better. it's hard to sell but it is getting a little better. will it still be better come next november? >> yes. as a matter of fact, a lot of things you talked about at the top of the show, consumer confidence, house prices coming back, these are going to lead to more jobs in the fall, lead to more consumer spending. it's the begin of what i think could be a good time and the jobs will start coming in the next six months. >> this has been a long testing, difficult period for people. this has been a long, long slog now for years now. since the financial crisis. what does that do to the business cycle? is there still a business cycle where you can say it's only going to last so long, enjoy it while it lasts before the next recession? is there any way to measure how long this recovery that you say is going to get better is going to stay better?

>> well, we still don't have any small business hiring to speak of. we don't have small business creation. we don't have large commercial real estate projects. those have to happen before i can say that we've even started the cycle. chris, what's happened is we're not as bad, it's not as tough as it's been. it can get better, but there are still many things that are not working for people. we are still seeing only okay retail sales. we are not seeing the job creation that we'd like. you mentioned that. you know what, it really does start to feel better now. it is better than it was, chris. you can really -- the president's got it right. >> well, let's take a look at that. steve israel, congressman, i want you to look at these numbers. they're good for your party and good for the house running. the president's job approval on the economy, specifically, is ticking up. according to a recent "washington post"/abc poll, 48% say they approve of the job he's doing when it comes to the economy and jobs. specifically. it's up four points since last month when a majority said they disapproved disapproved. now, how does that translate? my sense is it's environmental. people feel better about their

own lives. things are getting better. they can buy a few things for the family. they're more likely to like the party in power. like, in fact, like the president's party. >> well, i agree with you, chris. thank you for having me on. look, home values are going up. the deficit is going down. there's still a middle class that feels squeezed. jim is right, we can do better. so our message to house republicans in the 2014 congressional elections is very simple. don't screw this up. we need to build on our progress and not engage in more partisanship. we need to push solutions instead of ideology. and so as long as house republicans make the decision that they will no longer obstruct economic progress, that they will choose progress rather than partisanship, things can get even better than they are now. >> let me bring up something with jim cramer now. i want the congressman, you're chairman of the campaign committee for the democrats. you want a majority to pick up the 17th seat so you can get the full majority in the house. jim, this is a question, i don't know if we talked about it when we bumped into each other in puerto rico a while back. this is my saw. this is what i believe in.

i look at the numbers. the low interest rate now. you can get money if you've got a good project. you've got a public employment that's gone way down. it keeps going down. the number of people who work from the government. no matter what the b.s. comes from the right says, it's coming down, the number of people working for the government. there are a lot of people who are skilled out there who are out of work right now. why doesn't this administration do something big the way ike did it in the '50s? why don't we rebuild and build this country to begin to catch up to asia where they have the bullet trains and europe where they have the bay that goes 350 miles an hour and it feels like you're sitting still. berl berlin. it's a modern city. they have civil engineering o i bridges which is beautiful, trains that are spectacular, a new subway system. why can't we compete with old europe and new asia in the kind of structure we build for our economy? >> well, chris -- >> why not? >> when ike did it, he had the support of the democrats.

the democrats were in favor of the interstate highway system. what was amazing, the republicans gave more resistance. his own party. i don't think the president can go into congress and say, listen, we want to do something big when the republicans want him to do something small. this is not the time when we have an eisenhower in the white house and democratic group of people -- >> let the republicans know the biggest no in history, let them be the no party, but the president is the building party. i want to go back to steve israel. the congress nan. your party, you're for immigration reform which is a mixed bag. it helps hispanic people, helps some people. it's not one issue that grabs the whole country's attention and says, we're going to rebuild this country and look like the rest of the world again instead of falling behind. why not? why don't we call it the obama bill? >> he's tried. >> where? what's the name of the bill? what's the number? give me the number of the bill. >> the republican party has said no. >> i don't see it. >> let me ask you a question, chris. >> i don't see it. >> if only a few dozen republicans were willing to vote for a hurricane recovery build

to rebuild homes and businesses that were devastated in superstorm sandy, they couldn't even bring themselves to rebuild homes and businesses that were destroyed by a storm. what makes you think that they're going to be willing to make bold and big investments we should be making in rebuilding 153,000 bridges falling apart? >> i'll give you my answer to that. ever since harry truman, they didn't get health care but we got votes on it. we finally got it under obama. you can fight for things and not win. a lot of good people like hubert humphreys fought for civil rights. they didn't get it until '64. they fought for it. everybody knew where they stood, darn it. why can't the democratic party stand for jobs, at least? let the other party say no and have the jobs party against the no party. why are you so squeamish about that? >> $4 trillion in public works projects. $4 trillion right now in bridges and tunnels that every other country in the world would love

to be able to put people to work. why not propose it? why not propose $4 trillion? interest rates are real low. the government can borrow the lowest on earth. our country is the most solvent country on earth. you're right. >> congressman israel, i'm going to go back to my problem. the french which george w. with his limited i.q. made fun of the french all the time because they wouldn't back him on his stupid war. go to france, if you only get one vacation a month, go watch the train systems over there. you're under the english channel about 20 minutes. what do we got? amtrak. it's like a buckboard. i said it last night. the rickyiest old trains in the world. i like it because you get to relax for a couple hours. but it is an old system. why can't we compete? >> we can. we can compete. reid felix wrote in "bold endeavors" every economic crisis this country has ever faced has been solved with one thing. building things. america needs to get back into the business of repairing and recovering. look, when the president of the united states tried to take us out of this new depression with the american recovery act, what did republicans do? they voted against it and did

everything they could to take it down. now, look, now is a chance for republicans to quit trying to obstruct, stop trying to get in the way of infrastructure and help us make progress. we can have a republican and democratic bipartisan infrastructure investment bill. we're waiting for republicans to work with us. we can create 47,000 jobs for every $1 billion investment in infrastructure. we can do it now. the republicans need to start compromising and get away from ideology. >> a great new york democrat, ad man, used to say replace the smell of decay with the smell of construction. dirt being moved. stuff getting done. huh? >> natural gas. if we did it, we could smash opec, put 2 million people to work, clean the skies, lower carbon dioxide. the president is kind of, i don't really care. >> big is what's missing. for four years republicans criticized democrats in the u.s. senate for not putting out a budget. this year the democrats did put

out a budget. the next step, of course, were for the democrats and republicans in both houses to get together on the agreed upon budget and hammer out a deal. for some senators like ted cruz, that idea sounds almost sinister. talk about being a no person. let's watch cruz. >> senior senator from arizona urged this body to trust the republicans. let me be clear, i don't trust the republicans. and i don't trust the democrats. and i think a whole lot of americans, likewise, don't trust the republicans and the democrats because it is leadership in both parties that has gotten us in this mess. >> is nothing sacred? that's what they're selling. nothing. fellow tea partyer mike lee of utah also said it was a no go having a budget unless democrats agreed to republicans' demands upfront. there's a negotiation. let's watch. >> the american people do not trust secret backroom deals and neither do i. unless and until the american

people are assured that we will not sneak a debt limit increase into the conference report, i will happily continue to object. >> you know, mr. israel, congressman, i do not understand what these people -- i can call them all the flanames in the wo, it won't make any difference. i'm going to restrain. i worked on the senate budget committee for senator musky for three years. what is the secret treaty thing this guy is talking about? >> i have no idea. it's another conspiracy theory from the far, far right. this is why bob dole a week ago said he couldn't make it in the republican party. ronald reagan couldn't make it in the republican party. tip o'neill had differences with ronald reagan but managed to -- for four years republicans have criticized democrats for not passing a budget. democrats have passed a budget say, let's negotiate. republicans are saying they won't negotiate. again, we need progress and not

part zanship. >> jim cramer, what a great man you are. thank you so much. 6:00 on cnbc. thank you so much. of course, i really like this job. u.s. congressman steve israel has done a great job for the democrats. coming up, he's back. mitt romney once again speaking out against president obama and talking about hitting the campaign trail for republicans. my secret suspicion, i think he's harboring a secret plan. talk about conspiracy. to go about it again. plus bait and switch is a tried and true trick beloved by the right. remember how they used 9/11 to get us into iraq? michele bachmann is trying to blame the so-called cover-up in benghazi that people got killed in benghazi before the cover-up. bait and switch forever as long as bachmann is around. can a politician overcome being turned into a punch line? that's the question facing texas governor rick perry. and also one of dan quayle's advisers out there still around has some advice for perry tonight on the sideshow.

finally let me finish with bait and switch number, and how you can see right through it. this is "hardball." friday night. the place for politics. [ female announcer ] love. it's the most powerful thing on the planet. love holds us in the beginning. comforts us as we grow old. love is the reason you care. for all the things in your life... that make life worth living. ♪ ♪ sweet love of mine whoa! hey, we got a weather alert for this location... golf-ball sized hail and damaging winds are on the way... kids... eh, don't worry. it's tornado-proof. anyway, i'd put the car in the garage and secure these things. they could become flying debris. kids! watch this. [ beep ] [ children screaming ] [ car alarm chirps ] awesome. [ male announcer ] mobile weather alerts from your home insurance? that's allstate home insurance.

great protection plus helpful tools to make life better. talk to an allstate agent... [ doorbell rings ] and let the good life in. you're going to love this. we have new polling on hypothetical matchups for 2016. for that, we check the "hardball" scoreboard. according to a new quinnipiac poll, hillary clinton is the candidate to beat out there. she leads jeb bush by eight points. that's not a lot. it's something. 48%-40%. against rand paul hillary clinton has a slighter lead. actually it's 49%-41 skt, the exact same lead. clinton's numbers are starting to come down, of course, but she's still running more than 20 points ahead of the republicans among women. and they're the biggest voters out there. women. that makes a very big difference. now let's look at how joe biden would fair. jeb bush beats biden. rand paul, four-point lead over biden. 43%-49%. paul is definitely growing out there in stature. we'll be right back. in a timely fashion and within budget.

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welcome back to "hardball." well, big question for you out there. has anyone been missing mitt romney? it's been six months since he dropped from the public eye, but failed presidential candidate mitt romney resurfaced this week, speaking to the "wall street journal" in advanced of a planned comeback of sorts. "the journal" reports, "mr. romney said in an interview he plans to reemerge in ways that will help shape national priorities. as a first step, the former republican presidential nominee plans to welcome 200 friends and supporters to a three-day summit next week that he will host at a utah mountain resort." i think it's park city. "he's considering writing a book," by the way according to this account "and a series of opinion pieces and has plans to campaign for republican candidates in 2014." it sounds as if romney wants back into politics in some way. does the party and his future candidates want romney as part of their path to victory? john is a republican consultant who ran rick santorum's presidential campaign last year. david corn is washington bureau chief for "mother jones" and

msnbc political analyst. question. we haven't had candidates run again after losing a general election i think since next, before that, add lay stevenson, before that, tom er and harder in a tv age. it's hard to come back and say, give me another shot. is romney peek-a-booing his way back in? >> the only thing i could see him running for is the u.s. senate in michigan. i'm going home, going to run for the senate. let's remember, romney has won four times and lost three of those. so the other problem is he has no ideological base. nobody sits there and says -- >> no romney-ism. >> there isn't. i just don't see how he reenters. i almost feel sorry for him. he sounds like someone coming out of retirement that's not sure to go on a fishing trip or build a backyard deck. >> i wonder whether, this could be bipartisan, this phenomenon, because so much exposure you get, david. even, say, john kerry, i don't want to brag because you never know how it ends up.

he seems to be doing a super job as secretary of state. even if there wasn't a hillary running potentially. is it something that's in the water now? there's so much exposure. you just can't come back from a defeat in a general election. >> i think that's probably true particularly in our 24/7 nanosecond tweet every second of every moment world we live in. romney in particular, he wasn't much liked by the people who voted for him the first time. the last six months, how often have you heard anybody say, huh, i wonder what mitt romney thinks of this? so he was kind of a placeholding candidate. >> his wife has probably been thinking of it every hour. >> listen, yesterday she got out there and started blasting the obama administration saying there's no trust because of the irs scandal. i'm still waiting to see their tax returns. so they can, you know, be bitter and talk about writing a book, but i think ultimately it doesn't matter much and it won't affect john's business here as he goes forward with rick santorum or anybody else. >> well, he's still banging away

at obama. he told "the wall street journal," here it is, "the extraordinary disappointment of the president's second term is where the opportunity was greatest. he proposed the least and continues to campaign as if there's another election and there isn't." let me go to the other guy. byron york, i like reading this guy in the "washington examiner." it's easy to read. wisconsin governor scott walker is his new guy for 2016. i think it's for real. i think he is a bridge builder, this guy. this is what they wrote in the byron wright column. "talk to iowa politicos who supported mitt romney around the last time and talk to politicos who support anybody but romney and ask what they think about walker. you'll hear a lot of positive things from both sides. no those who like romney and didn't. here's the thing that impresses republicans looking for a candidate. scott walker has done things. as part of the gubernatorial faction in the 2016 field the list includes christie and jindal. walker not only has executive experience, he used executive authority to achieve a goal

conservatives, to break the hold public employee unions have on government in many states." ed schultz fought that fight on our network all the way through. scott walker might be the bridge between the chris christies and the people on the other side, the ted cruzs, because he's from part of the country your party has to win, the midwest. >> byron gets stories nobody else does. this was one of them. what i look at is, who's going to come out of iowa? there's going to be three, four people out of it. if it was today, you'd have rand paul, santorum, and you would have scott walker. all of them fit the bill of somebody who will resonate all across the state and do well and all of a sudden you're off to the races. i think a lot of these other people you mentioned are going to have trouble playing in iowa. >> let me go back to you on that, david. from the other point of view, progressive point of view. i don't think anybody going to beat hillary in the current environment, the economy. nobody is going to beat hillary i don't think. she's not going to have to take the heat for the economy, where she can benefit from the clinton economy from the '90s.

she's got a lot of horses going for her politically. if they're going to put together a candidate who will get at least 45%, 47% of the vote and not get blown away, scott walker is the kind of candidate who can do it or rubio. >> two words about scott walker. rick perry. or sarah palin. these are both gocvernors toute as the wonderful candidates once upon time. until you get out there and start mixing it up, there's no way of knowing. scott walker, you know, had this very -- >> are you serious? >> -- hard fight in wisconsin. >> are you serious? do you expect me to buy that? do you really think he's the same intellectually as the other two candidates? >> what i'm saying, listen, what i'm saying is, until someone gets out there on a national stage, i mean, people were writing columns going on and on about how rick perry was going to waltz in and walk away with the nomination in iowa and every place else. i mean, you remember those columns, chris. >> i know, and i know it was premature because both were not ready for primetime. scott walker has been through

the fights with schultz and the labor unions. i've gotten a good look at the guys. i don't think he's a lightweight. >> i'm not saying he's a lightweight. that's a long way to go from being a competitive national candidate. i'm not sure iowa is the be all and end all. >> you're reminding me more and more of jack jermand in the old days. the politico guy who says, well, you know, it's way early there, martin, it's too early to make these judgments. you know, gee, you're getting old, my friend. i mean, go ahead. >> here's what i would say. look, i had a front-row seat for all the republican primary presidential race last time. i saw the herman cains come and go, the michele bachmanns and even perry. actually i think scott walker is much more credible and brings a lot more to the table probably than they did, and i think he has a much better chance of doing well than they did. >> what about the guy we like around here, christie? too far left for the party? >> i'm not convinced he's going to run. number one. i just truly am not. i'm going to get on the record, i'm not convinced hillary clinton runs anymore. i said a month ago she was.

i'm saying here on the record, i'm not convinced she does. >> where's the betting window? a lot of people like to call -- >> i'm assuming -- >> i know a lot of people would like to get a piece of that. >> this is not my republican talking points. i'm just telling you, i think that she's got some more problems. >> what do you mean problems? >> i know you think this benghazi thing is nothing. >> not benghazi. >> i'm just telling you. >> you know what, if there is an issue there, she'll run to beat it. because the one thing she won't do is run away from it. >> we've seen the clintons evercome a lot more than this benghazi nonscandal. i afree with john, though, i'm not sure she's made up her mind to run yet. there's no way of knowing. it won't be because of benghazi. >> all you have to do if you're hillary clinton, you get two for the price o one. she stands next to bill. i'm running this time, he's going to help. i'm running. remember how good it was back in the '90s? everybody's going to say, i liked it. >> i tell you what, i'll go further. i do not think either clinton or biden will be the democrat nominee of next time. i don't know who it will be.

i think it will be somebody younger. >> around here we say democratic candidate, by the way. you said democrat. >> i could say progressive if that makes everybody happy. >> anyway, we're putting this guy down. i want to remember this. hillary ain't running and neither is the other guy, who's not running. >> biden is not going to get the nomination. >> he's not going to run i don't think, if hillary runs. i think chris christie is running, going through this operation and this national exposure, i think he's running and i think he would be a great candidate to watch. i don't know if he's too east coast. thank you. david corn. you got your little thing in there for rick, by the way. up next, can a politician ever come back after being a punch line? talk about a punch line. rick perry. oops. they said never say the word "oops" in the operating room. we'll be right back.

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think about to the 2012 gop primary, the one candidate that might fit the description, politician turned punch line. it's texas governor rick perry sealing the deal with one word in that debate. oops. well, the "l.a. times" turned to history to try to answer the question, could perry be texas' comeback kid? they zeroed in on dan quayle who had his share of embarrassing home moments in his electoral career like what he said in 1988 about the holocaust. >> it was an obscene period in our nation's history. it is something that we must study. no, not our nation's. but if world war ii, i mean, we all lived in this century. i didn't live in this century, but in this century's history. it is a point of history that this nation, our nation, understands. we did not have, matter of fact,

we fought hitler. >> reminds me of one of those beauty contests, people that shouldn't be going for anything. anyway, the "l.a. times" asked a former aide to dan quayle about the future of perry. it's david beckwith, an austin communications consultant who spent four years in the white house working with vice president dan quayle. once it happens, he said, it's almost impossible to reverse. next, greetings from joe biden. the vice president on a trip through south america right now making stops in brazil, colombia, trinidad, and tobago. the white house posted a check-in video from his visit to a flower farm down in colombia, one that exports more than half of its output to the u.s. biden had advice for married men everywhere. >> my wife is extremely partial to flowers and roses are her favorite.

so my advice to all of you married men, no matter how long you've been married, continue to court your wife if you know what's good for you. finally, michigan governor, republican governor rick snyder tries his hand at outreach for female voters. "detroit free press" reporter cathie gray tweeted a picture of pro-snyder pictures from a conference yesterday. a play on marshmallow peeps from easter with the words "i'm a rick chick." let's see how that one plays, anyway. up next, it's the right wing's favorite tactic, the bait and switch. and no one did it better than michele bachmann. that's ahead. you're watching "hardball." the place for politics. i see you have allstate claim free rewards,

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i'm amanda drury with your cnbc market wrap. stocks close out may with a selloff. the dow falling more than 200

points. talk of a correction. the s&p 500 dropping by 23. the nasdaq composite losing 35 points. consumer spending slipped in april for the first time in nearly a year. economists did expect the gain, however, for may, consumer sentiment soared to a near six-year high as americans began feeling more optimistic about the economy. and that is it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. have a great weekend, folks. now it's back over to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." bait and switch. it's an old trick, of course, that's now being used by the right wing. take an issue that fires people up then switch it to a different target. they did it with the swift voting of john kerry. they took anger about his anti-war stance after the war and then used it to attack his actual war record. bush and cheney, of course, did it, in the way they handled 9/1

9/11. michele bachmann, who announced she's stepping down this week after her term ends in 2014 was a master at bait and switch. in her announcement, video, she gave us another great example of how the game is played. listen to what she says here about benghazi. it comes while she's listing her accomplishments as a u.s. congresswoman. pay close attention to how she phrases the president's culpability on benghazi. let's watch. >> making publicly clear this administration's outrageous lack of action in benghazi, libya, and the subsequent political cover-up which resulted in the deaths of four honorable, dedicated public servants. >> so did she wiz that by like a fast ball or curve ball? did you catch that there? it was the cover-up of what happened in benghazi that killed the four people there in the benghazi incident. it doesn't make any sense, but we've gotten so used to it, people just listen to it, absorb it and don't think.

joy reid is managing editor of grios.com. msnbc analyst. ryan grim is the washington bureau chief for the "huffington post." he me start with you, joy. i've spent a lot of time trying to find out how they get the wizes past people. and they do it real quick. so they appeal to people's emotions about 9/11, fair enough. they even sing country western songs about it. all of a sudden you remember how you felt? all of a sudden we're fighting in iraq. that has nothing to do with it. you're legitimately angry, so let's bait and switch. take that anger and switch it to iraq. they did it to screw john kerry. of course it was a good debate what he said about the war, vietnam. i can disagree with the way he said it. they go after his war record which was up blemished. they take the thing you can legitimately be mad about and whack the other person with it. there's bachmann in the screwiest one ever saying this alleged cover-up of benghazi

killed chris stevens and the other three diplomats, going back in the machine and killed them somehow before the incident because of how the cover-up was handled. it doesn't make any sense, but i can hear the people going, yeah, yeah, that sounds good, that sounds good. anyway, bait and switch. i'm looking out for it all the time. your thoughts. >> absolutely. it's funny, it's kind of fitting that michele bachmann was the person who took the tea party inside the house of representatives. she was one of the main people who did it. because the tea party is the ultimate example of this, chris. remember the original supposed complaint of the tea party were the bailouts. we bailed out the big banks. that's what supposedly got it going. what they did was they came out and immediately turned all that anger, all that frustration, all that fear about the economy on to the victim. it was a deadbeat homeowners. it wasn't the banks, it wasn't wall street. it wasn't the people that fund the tea party. the big corporations that are really behind growing this movement out of a so-called grassroots into really an astroturf movement. it was the poor, the 47%. and they've managed to sustain

that since 2010. and this is a tactic i think comes from talk radio. we're seeing a republican party that doesn't have solid policy prescriptions, but what they do instead is just tweak emotion. talk radio is brilliant about this. you're mad, we're going to tell you who the real culprit is. it's not big business, it's not wall street screwing you over. it's these people. directing it the at the immigra immigrants, directing it at the president. they're good at it. so is michele bachmann. >> it's the idea of bait and switch. the basic idea is you're a car dealer, a great car here, paid 1,000 bucks for it. it's only a couple years old. you get to the lot, it's not there. we have these beauties over here. they're selling you something else. they get you on the lot and sell you something you didn't even know you're thinking about. they take legitimate anger and flip it into something else. >> yeah, joy's point is a good one that they went from bailout and switched elsewhere. what they really put it on was obama care. and if you notice, that's the switch, too, on almost everything is obama care.

they'll find something you could be legitimately angry about and switch to obama care. sometimes it's the economy, obama care. bailout, obama care. even the irs scandal, marco rubio put out a statement recently that said the only solution to this irs scandal is to repeal obama care. >> yeah. >> that sounds silly, but it follows their bait and switch logic. and their logic is, well, the irs is going to have some involvement in the implementation of obama care. >> pushing that line, too. >> yeah, and it strikes you as just completely bizarre until you can get into that strategy of the bait and switch. and then it makes sense. oh, okay. >> you know why they do that? they can't come out with another argument, what are we going to go with the 40 million people uninsured? they go right back to the e.r. they don't have an alternative. joy, that is the issue, i think. the democrats are never perfect. the democrats are trying to do something. they're not always trying sometimes which i go crazy about, like jobs. you don't even try. they have an incentive to do it because that's their ideology. the other party skips the

ideological argument. they can't win. let's look at this. this is e.j. dionne. i'm a fan of his writing. a great article about michele bachmann. he wrote "bachmannism is far from over. she perfected a tactic well suited to the current media environment. continually toss out outlandish, bracelet charges and eventually some of them will enter the mainstream media." i think we've got it there, where she's in that good-bye speech of hers, it wasn't exactly bipartisan. she's trashing the president, again, for obama, you know -- the only bill she's introduced in her whole career apparently were 37 -- i don't know how many times she introduced the same thing to get rid of obama care. i think that's why she's leaving her seat because at home they know she's not effective. nothing to do with ideology. she's not an effective congressperson. >> the point e.j. dionne makes, it is a good one, she's not an isolated case. what you really do have right now is a policy party in the democrats and emotionalism

party, a talk radio party in the republicans. they haven't proposed, like, a solid sort of tangible new idea that i can remember in a very long time, but barack obama gave them this emotional sort of crucible where they could direct all of their energy and all their anger at this one person. this is the guy who crystalizes everything you hate about where this country is going. so they don't have to have policy. they can do what you do in entertainment. they can constantly harp on something about obama is not right to you, right? >> i've got you wrapped up, now. i have to ask you the obvious question. i know what your wonderful answer is going to be, i think. do you think the ted cruz who was born, nobody denies this, not an accusation which is absurd. he was born actually in canada. >> yeah. >> to an american mother. >> obama was born, and everybody knew it, nobody's ever challenged this, to an american mother. will they then adopt the same approach they took to someone born overseas? they claimed in the case of obama, to someone who was actually born overseas, born in

another country? that is ted cruz. will they attack him as some sort of interloper who is not eligible to run for president? do you think they might? just guessing. >> it's funny, they did it with rubio. as soon as rubio stepped out of line and started to edge toward immigration, you started to hear the same things about him. >> the other situation -- >> this is the perfect head exploding problem. >> what are they going to do with this guy? are they going to let this guy run for president, ted cruz? he's born in canada. >> purely situational ethics. completely situational ethics. >> as long as he says what they want -- >> i haven't heard that phrase since the '60s. situational. isn't that great? in other words, if it's our guy, no problem, wave him in. where was he born? doesn't matter. >> as long as he says what they want, as long as he sticks to their long. >> some of these people think canada is more american than hawaii, anyway. anyway, joy reid, thank you, dear. thank you, ryan grim. always come back. up next, inside the 16-year manhunt for one of america's

most wanted fugitives, whitey bulger. in new jersey all those years. this is "hardball." we're talking massachusetts. the place for politics. i'm on expert on softball. and tea parties. i'll have more awkward conversations than i'm equipped for, because i'm raising two girls on my own. i'll worry about the economy more than a few times before they're grown. but it's for them, so i've found a way. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. ready to plan for your future? we'll help you get there.

a talking car. but i'll tell you what impresses me. a talking train. this ge locomotive can tell you exactly where it is, what it's carrying, while using less fuel. delivering whatever the world needs, when it needs it. ♪ after all, what's the point of talking if you don't have something important to say? ♪ arkansas democratic governor, actually senator, mark pryor has a tough re-election fight in 2014. in his first tv ad he's running against president obama and new york mayor michael bloomberg and expanded background checks for gun sales. let's watch.

>> the mayor of new york city is running ads against me because i oppose president obama's gun control legislation. nothing in the obama plan would have prevented tragedies like newtown, aurora, tucson, or even jonesboro. i'm mark priony opryor. i approve this message because no one from new york tells me what to do. >> a ppp poll out this week finds a majority of arkansas voters actually support background checks and more voters say they'd be more likely to vote for senator pryor had he supported the manchin/toomey compromise. we'll see. i'm very suspicious of those polls. we'll be right back. come here, boy.

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welcome back to "hardball." next week in boston, a jury selection begins in a highly anticipated trial of whitey bulger, notorious leader of the winter hill gang, an irish mafia, for his alleged role in and extortion, loan sharking and trafficking and narcotics charges. he's considered folk hero and sometimes criminal at the same time. his brother billy was a major politician in the senate and jack nickelson's role was loosely based on that. >> you become cops or criminals. what i'm saying is this, when you're facing a loaded gun, what's the difference? >> that was from the trailer. next week's trial promises to trump hollywood could imagine. joining me is kevin cullen.

first, explain to the people who don't know it. >> i always say south boston. it's literally a peninsula. it's figuratively an island. it's a place that thinks itself apart from the city. it was a place you didn't go there if you didn't have to. >> it's not on the way to anywhere? >> right. it's very insular and it's very irish even though they were only 50, 60% of the population. when whitey was growing up, even the albanian kids had to sing irish songs in the neighborhood. there's nothing worse than being a rat and that's what this guy became. >> let's talk about whitey because i know his brother billy.

he was big senate president of there. one guy goes the right way and the other goes the wrong way. is there's really an attitude that the only difference between being on the side of the law and against the law is there isn't any difference? >> i think that existed back in the day. i think when we came to power there was a lot of people that believed that. i think that doesn't exist anymore. the people that believe there, i would compare them to the mother of the bombers who says their son is innocent. >> that's crazy talk. i like the town. that was charlestown. a little different part of the town. is this real? this rooting for bad guys up there. >> i think back then it was. whitey southy is long gone.

he's going to be tried -- >> let me ask you. wasn't he a chicken hawk? >> i have no information on that. we looked for that. it was published in previous books. he was clearly a womanizer. one of the fascinating things in our books is this guy is a gangster and fbi informant and killer. he has two domestic situations where one woman doesn't know the other exists for 20 years. he's balancing that life. one of the things that i found out is that he went to see a shrink. >> as we watch this trial, 19 murders involved with. what does that mean they can't finger him in. >> a murder in a rico prosecution, a murder is no different than shaking down a bookie. all they have to do is find him

guilty of two predicate acts. like shooting fish in a barrel. >> they could never figure him. they could never nail him as direct killer. even a guy that put a contract on somebody. >> he's waiting capital murder charges this both florida and oklahoma. they want to execute him but the feds want to take the first shot. >> there's no federal execution? >> there is not. >> can they hold him and keep him from getting executed? can they hold him? >> i don't know. >> this appeals to my love of crime stories. there's something about this that grabs me. i love that. thank you. the book is called whitey bulger. thank you. when we return let me finish with the right wing's bait and

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let me finish with this. think about this bait and switch number they pull on the right. first they find something you don't like. matter that really burns you up. then when you're white hot with anger they present something different for you to hate ore fear whatever they're trying to get you to do. they find veterans in the vietnam war who don't like what

john kerry said in opposing the war. then they take those angry men and said they're angry about him not opposing the war but during the war. we all get angry with the people that plan 9/11. they say we need to attack a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. bait and switch. so easy like taking candy from baby. they're afraid of a nuclear attack when they can't prove hussein had weapons. so they switch to other weapons. since they got us focused on nuclear weapons being in their act the bait has been set. bait and switch. look for it next time you see a pitch from the hawks. that's "hardball" for now. thanks chris and thanks to you for tuning in.

tonight the obama recovery. all you hear inside that right wing bubble is scandal, scandal and more scandal. today the president talked about what really matters. >> the good news is today our businesses created nearly seven million jobs of the past eight months. 500,000 are in manufacturing. we're producing more of our own energy and we're importing less from other countries. the housing market is come back. the stock market has rebounded. our deficits are shrinking at the fastest pace in 50 years. >> folks, forget the side show. this is real promise. the deficit down $800 billion since the president took office. the jobs are continuing to come back 38 straight months of private sector job