♪ i'm a hard, hard worker... ♪ membership rallied millions of us on small business saturday to make shopping small, huge. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. it's the economy, stupid. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with that very point. it's the economy, stupid. everything i've seen in politics tells me this. we can argue issues every night here but i know from experience it's how people feel about their own circumstances, whether they're working, how prices are, interest rates, determining whether they get to take the family to dinner friday night, buy shoes for the kids, go

somewhere fun on vacation. in other words how happy things are at home. right now the numbers are looking a bit better. the value of your house is probably headed upward because the average selling price is up about 10%. your 401(k) is probably doing a little bit better if you're retired because the stock market is. you have a better chance of finding and holding a job right now. the unemployment rate which still ain't great has come down from where it was down to the mid 7s. when somebody calls up and asks how you're doing you're more likely to say president obama is doing a better job on the economy. that's what's going on right now. will it still be going on next november when we have the next congressional elections? we'll see, jim cramer will help us the host of "mad money" week nights at 6:00 on cnbc and the chairman of the democratic national committee. thank you, gentlemen. there are strong indications the economy is on the upswing. gross domestic product rose nearly 2%, 2 1/2% in the first quarter of 2013. the deficit is projected to be

down to, down to 642 billion. it was in the trillions nearly half of what it was in 2010. meanwhile, the dow-jones is facing the month up 3%. consumer confidence is higher than it was since july of 2007. home prices are up around 11% over the last year. that is the biggest increase in seven years. today the president emphasized that measuring the country's progress on the economy is about more than just the stock market but how ordinary families are feeling. he also made it clear the economy was picking up steam. let's watch. >> over the past four and a half years we've been fighting our way back from a financial crisis and incredibly punishing recession. the good news is today our businesses have created nearly 7 million new jobs over the past 38 months. the housing market is coming back. the stock market has rebounded. our deficits are shrinking at the fastest pace in 50 years.

people's retirement savings your growing again. the rise of health care costs are slowing. the american auto industry is back. so we're seeing progress and the economy is starting to pick up steam. gears are starting to turn again. we're getting some traction. >> let me go to jim cramer. you know your stuff. that opening question is my favorite, hope you can answer it. the economy is a little better. hard to sell but a little better. will it still be better come next november? >> yes. as a matter of fact, i think a lot of things you talked about at the top of the show, chris, about consumer confidence, house prices coming back, these are going to lead to more jobs in the fall, going to lead to more consumer spending. it is the beginning of what i think could be a good time and the jobs will start coming in the next six months. >> this has been a long test and difficult period for people, a long, long slog for years now since the financial crisis. what does that do to the business cycle? is there still a business cycle where you could say it's only

going to last so long, enjoy it while it lasts before the next recession? is there any way to measure how long this recovery you say is going to get better is going to stay better? >> we still don't have any small business hiring to speak of, small business creation, no large commercial real estate projects. those have to happen before i can say we started the cycle. we're not as bad, not as tough as it's been. it can get better. there are still many things that are not working for people. we are still seeing only okay retail sales. we are not seeing the job creation that we'd like. you mentioned that. you know what? it really does start to feel better now. it is better than it was, chris, and the president has got it right. >> let's take a look at that. steve israel, congressman, look at these numbers because they're good for your party and probably good for the house running. the president's job approval on the economy specifically is ticking up. according to a recent "the washington post"/abc poll 48% say they approve of the job he is doing when it comes to the economy and jobs specifically. it's up four points since last

month when a majority said they disapprove. now, how do you -- how does that translate? my sense is it's environmental. people feel better about their own lives. things are getting better. they can buy a few things for the family and are more likely to like the party in power in fact like the president's party. >> well, i agree with you, chrisment thank you for having me on. look. home values are going up and the deficit is going down. but there is still a middle class that feels squeezed. jim is right. we can do better. our message to house republicans in 2014 congressional elections is simple. don't screw this up. we need to build on our progress and not engage in more partisanship. we need to push solutions instead of ideology. and so as long as house republicans make the decision that they will no longer obstruct economic progress, that they will choose progress rather than partisanship, then things can get even better than they are now. >> let me bring up something with jim cramer now. congressman, you're chairman of the campaign committee for the democrats. you won a majority to pick up

the 17 sets, you can get the full majority of the house. i don't know if we talked about this in puerto rico a while back but this is my saw, what i believe in. i look at the numbers, the low interest rate now. you can get money if you got a good project. you got a public employment that is going way down and keeps going down. the number of people working for the government. no matter what the right says it is going down the number of people who work for the government. a lot of people are skilled out there and out of work right now. why doesn't this administration do something big like ike did back in the 1950s? why don't we rebuild and build this country to begin to catch up to asia where they have the bullet trains and europe where they have the 350-mile-per-hour transit and it feels like you're sitting still, the channel, the english channel, germany and berlin, a modern city. you'd think they won the war. they have civil engineering on bridges which is beautiful, spectacular trains, a new subway system. why can't we compete with old europe and new asia in the kind

of structure we build for our economy? >> chris, when ike did it he had the support of the democrats. >> yes. >> the democrats were in favor of the interstate highway system. i don't think the president can go into congress and say we want to do something big when the republicans want him to do something small. this is not the time when we have an eisenhower in the white house and a democratic group of people who want to go with it. >> let the republicans know, the biggest no in history, the no party but the president is the build party. the problem is on immigration reform it is a mixed bag, not one issue that grabs the whole country's attention and says we're going to rebuild this country and look like the rest of the world instead of falling behind. why not? >> you are absolutely right. he's tried. >> where? what is the number, the name of the bill? >> let me ask you something,

chris. >> i don't see it. >> if republicans, only a few dozen republicans were willing to vote for a hurricane recovery bill to rebuild homes and businesses that were devastated in superstorm sandy, they couldn't even bring themselves to rebuild homes and businesses that were destroyed by a storm, what makes you think that they're going to be willing to make them bold and big investments that we should be making in rebuilding the bridges falling apart? >> ever since harry truman the democratic party stood for health care and got votes on it, people said we got to get it. finally we got it under obama. you can promise things, urge things, fight for things and not win. a lot of good people like hubert humphrey since 1948 fought for civil rights and martin luther king. they didn't get it until 6:4 but they fought for it and everyone knew where they stood darn it. why can't the democratic party stand for jobs at least. let the other party say no. then you can have the jobs party against the no party. why are you so squeamish about this? gee whiz.

>> $4 trillion in public works projects right now just in bridges and tunnels that every other country in the world would love to be able to put people to work. why not propose it? why not propose $4 trillion? interest rates are real low. the government can borrow the lowest on earth. our country is the most solid country on earth. you're right. why don't we try it? back to my problem. the french which george w. with his limited i.q. made fun of the french all the time because they wouldn't back his stupid war. go to france. if you only get one vacation a month go watch the train systems. look at the channel. you're under the english channel for about 20 minutes. we got amtrak. it's the rickety old train. i love it because you get to relax for a couple hours but it is an old system. why can't we compete? >> we can compete. it was in the book bold endeavors every economic crisis this country ever faced was solved with one thing, building things. america needs to get back into the business of repairing and

recovering. when the president of the united states tries to take us out of this near depression with the american recovery act what did republicans do? they voted against it and did everything they could to take it down. now, look. now is the chance for republicans to quit trying to obstruct, stop trying to get in the way of infrastructure, and help us make progress. we can have a republican and democratic bipartisan infrastructure investment bill. we're waiting for republicans to work with us. we can create 47,000 jobs for every billion dollar investment in infrastructure. we can do it now. the republicans need to start compromising and get away from ideology. >> a great new york democrat ad man used to say replace the smell of decay with the smell of construction. we know what the smell -- dirt being moved. stuff getting done. >> chris, natural gas. if we did it, we could smash opec, put 2 million people to work, clean the skies, lower carbon monoxide, happen like this. but the president is kind of, ah, i don't like it.

>> big is what's missing. for four years republicans criticized democrats in the u.s. senate for not putting out a budget. this year the democrats did put out a budget and the next step was for the democrats and republicans in both houses to get together on the agreed upon budget and hammer out a deal. for some senators like ted cruz that idea sounds almost sinister. talk about being a no person. let's watch him. >> senior senator from arizona urged this body to trust the republicans. let me be clear. i don't trust the republicans. and i don't trust the democrats. and i think a whole lot of americans like wise don't trust the republicans and the democrats because it is leadership in both parties that has gotten us in this mess. is nothing sacred? that's what they're selling. fellow tea partier from utah said it was a no go having a budget unless democrats agree to republicans' demands up front. there is a negotiation.

let's watch. >> the american people do not trust secret back room deals and neither do i. unless and until the american people are assured we will not sneak a debt limit increase into the conference report i will happily continue to object. >> you know, mr. israel, congressman, i didn't understand these people -- i can call them all the names in the world and it won't make any difference. the fact is i worked on the senate budget committee for senator musky for three years. you went to conference with the house. you agreed upon something with all the press there, all the cameras there. what is the sacred treaty thing this guy is talking about? >> i have no idea. it's another conspiracy theory from the far right. this is why bob dole a week ago said he could never make it in the republican party. ronald reagan couldn't make it in the republican party. democrats had differences. your friend tip o'neill had differences with ronald reagan but they managed to pass budgets. for four years republicans have said they met. for four years republicans have criticized democrats for not passing a budget. democrats now have passed a budget and said let's negotiate.

now republicans are saying we will not even negotiate. again, we need progress and not partisanship. >> well, the democrats shouldn't have a hard time beating the fringeies out. jim cramer, thank so much. 6:00 on cnbc. thank you so much. of course i really like this guy u.s. congressman steve israel. he's done a great job for the democrats. coming up he is back mitt romney once again speaking out against president obama talking about hitting the campaign trail for republicans. my secret suspicion i think he is harboring a secret plan. talk about conspiracies. to go at it again. you know he got close but he'll try this time. plus bait and switch is a tried and true trick. now beloved by the right. remember how they used 9/11 to get us into iraq? michele bachmann uses it as an art form and tried to blame the so-called coverup of benghazi on the fact people got killed in benghazi before the coverup. figure that out. you can bet it'll live on. bait and switch forever as long as bachmann is around. can a politician overcome being nurnd a punch line? that's the question facing texas governor rick perry.

and also one of dan quayle's advisers out there, still around, has advice for perry tonight on "the side show." let me finish with bait and switch. you can see right through it. this is "hardball" friday night the place of politics. [ musick ] i knew there were a lot of tech jobs available out there. i knew devry university would give me the skills that i needed to make one of those tech jobs mine. we teach cutting-edge engineering technology, computer information systems, networking and communications management -- the things that our students need to know in the world today. our country needs more college grads to help fill all the open technology jobs. to help meet that need, here at devry university, we're offering $4 million dollars in tech scholarships for qualified new students. learn more at devry.edu. the day building a play set begins with a surprise twinge of back pain... and a choice. take up to 4 advil in a day or 2 aleve for all day relief. [ male announcer ] that's handy. ♪

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welcome back to "hardball." big question. has anyone been missing mitt romney? it's been six months since he dropped from the public eye but failed presidential candidate mitt romney resurfaced this week speaking to "the wall street journal" in advance of a planned comeback of sorts. the journal reports, quote, mr. romney said in an interview he plans to reemerge in ways that will help shape national priorities. as a first step the former republican presidential nominee plans to welcome 200 friends and supporters to a three-day summit next week that he will host at a utah mountain resort. i think it's park city. he's considering writing a book by the way according to this account and a series of opinion pieces and he has plans to campaign for republican candidates in 2014. it sounds as if romney want back into politics in some way but does the party and future candidates want romney as part of their path to victory? john brayvender is a republican

consultant who ran rick santorum's campaign last year and david cornin washington bureau chief from mother jones and msnbc political analyst. we haven't had candidates run again after losing a general election since nixon before that stevenson before that tom dewey. it is harder and harder because you get so over exposed when you lose. it is hard to come back and say give me a shot, think better of me. is there any chance romney is peek-a-booing his way back into a run? >> the only thing possibly running for is as u.s. senate in michigan. but let's remember romney has run now four times and lost three of those. so the other problem is he has no ideological base. nobody sits there and says romney is -- >> there isn't. >> so i just don't see how he re-enters and i almost feel sorry for him. he sounds like someone coming out of retirement that's not sure to go on a fishing trip or build the back yard deck. >> i wonder whether, this could be bipartisan this phenomenon because of so much exposure you

get, david. >> right. >> even john kerry who i think is doing -- i don't want to brag because you don't know how it is going to end up. he seems to do a super job as secretary of state but nobody thinks of him coming back in 2016. even if there wasn't a hillary running potentially. isn't something that is in the water now, so much exposure, you just can't come back from a defeat in a general election. >> i think that is probably true particularly in our age where we can tweet in every moment of the day world we live in. romney in particular wasn't much liked by people who voted for him the first time. in the last six months how often have you heard anybody say, huh, i wonder what mitt romney thinks of this? so he was kind of a place holding candidate. >> his wife has probably thinking of it every hour. >> listen, yesterday she got out there and started blasting the obama administration saying there is no trust because of the irs scandal. i'm still waiting to see their tax returns. so they can be bitter and talk about writing a book but i think ultimately it doesn't matter

much and it won't affect john's business here as he goes forward with rick santorum or anybody else. >> still banging away at obama in "the wall street journal", quote, here it is. the extraordinary disappointment of the president's second term is where the opportunity was greatest. he has proposed the least. he continues to campaign as if there is another election and there isn't. let me go to the other guy. byron york. i like reading this guy in the washington examiner. i read them all in the morning. the examiner is easier to read. i start with it. a nice shopper. anyway, wisconsin governor scott walker, his new guy for 2016. i think it's for real. i think he is a bridge builder this guy. he has conservatives buzzing. this is what they wrote. talk to iowa politicos who supported mitt romney around the last time and then talk to politicos who supported anybody but romney and ask what they think about walker. you'll hear a lot of positive things from both sides. those who liked romney and didn't. here is the thing that impresses republicans looking for a candidatement scott walker has done things. as part of the gubernatorial faction in the 2016 field the list includes christie and

jindal. walker not only has executive experience but has used authority to achieve a goal. conservatives have pursued it for years to break the hold public employees have on government. ed shulz from our network fought that all the way through. the bridge is seen as too moderate and the people on the other side, ted cruz, because he is a governor and from a part of the country your party has to win the midwest. >> byron is a good writer and gets stories nobody else does. this is one of them. i look at who is going to come out of iowa? there will be three or four people. i believe if it was today you'd have rand paul, rick santorum, and you would have scott walker. i think all of them fit the bill of somebody who will resonate all across the state and do well and then all of a sudden you're off to the races. i think a lot of these other people that you mentioned are going to have a lot of trouble playing in iowa. >> let me go back to you on that. from the other point of view, a progressive point of view, i don't think anybody is going to beat hillary in the current

environment of the economy. she's not going to have to take the heat for the economy where she can benefit from the clinton economy for the '90s. she has a lot of horses going for her politically. but if they're going to put together a candidate who will get 40, 45, 47% of the vote and not get blown away i would state scott walker is the kind of candidate or rubio. >> two words about scott walker. rick perry. or sarah palin. these are both governors who were touted as being wonderful candidates once upon a time and until you get out there and start mixing it up, there is no way of knowing. scott walker, you know, had this very hard fight in wisconsin. >> are you serious? do you really think he is in the same intellectual lead as -- >> what i'm saying, listen, is until someone gets out there on a national stage, people really are writing columns going on and on about how rick perry was just going to waltz in and take the nomination in iowa and

everywhere else. you remember those columns. >> i know and it was premature because both weren't ready for primetime but scott walker has been through this fight with schultz and the labor unions. i don't think he's a lightweight. >> not saying he's a lightweight but it is a long way to go from being a competitive national candidate and i'm not sure iowa is the be all and end all. >> you are reminding me more and more of jack germand in the old guys, the guy who says well you know it's way early, too early to make these judgments. you're getting old, my friend. >> here's what i would say. i had a front row seat for all of the republican primary presidential race last time. i saw the herman cains come and go, michele bachmann, even perry. actually i think scott walker is much more credible and brings more to the table probably than they did and i think he has a much better chance of doing well than they did. >> what about the guy we like around here, christie? >> first of all i'm not -- >> too far left for the party?

>> i'm not convinced he is going to run number one. i'll get it on the record. i'm not convinced hillary clinton runs anymore. i said a month ago she was. i'm just saying here on the record now i'm not convinced. >> where is the betting window? a lot of people like to call in bets. >> this is not my republican talking points. i'm just telling you i think that she's got more problems. >> what do you mean problems? >> i know you think this benghazi thing is nothing. >> oh, no. not benghazi. >> i'm just telling you. >> you know what? if there is an issue there she'll run to beat it because the one thing she won't do is run away from it. >> we've seen the clintons overcome a lot more than this benghazi nonscandal. i agree with john though that i'm not sure she's made up her mind to run yet so there is no way of knowing. it won't be because of benghazi. >> all you got to do if you're hillary clinton, you get two for the price of one. she stands next to bill. i'm running this time. he is going to help. remember how good it was back in the '90s? everyone is going to say, yeah.

i liked it. >> i'll even go further. i do not think either clinton or biden will be the democrat nominee next time. i don't know who it'll be. somebody younger. more exciting. i could say progressive if that makes everybody happy. >> we're putting this guy down. remember brayvender. hillary ain't running and neither is the other guy. >> biden is not going to get the nomination. >> you know what? i think chris christie is running. i think going through this operation and this national exposure, i think he is running and would be a great candidate to watch. i don't know if he is too east coast. thank you, john brayvender and david corn. you got your little thing in there for rick by the way. up next can a politician ever come back after being a punch line? talking about a punch line, rick perry. oops. they said never say the word "oops" in the operating room. [ male announcer ] need help keeping your digestive balance in sync?

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back to "hardball" now the "side show." think back to the 2012 gop primary the one candidate that might fit the description politician turned punch line. it's texas governor rick perry sealing the deal with one word in that debate. oops. the l.a. times turned to history to try and answer the question could perry be texas's comeback kid? they zeroed in on dan quayle who had his share of embarrassing moments in his career like what he said in 1988 about the holocaust. >> it was an obscene period in our nation's history. it is something that we must study. >> you said the holocaust was in our nation's history -- >> no, not our nation's but in world war ii. i mean, we all lived in this century. i didn't live in this century but in this century's history.

it is a point of history that this nation, our nation understands. we did not have, as a matter of fact, we fought hitlerism. >> ha. reminds you of one of those beauty contest people that really shouldn't be going for anything. anyway the l.a. times asked a former aide to dan quayle about the future of rick perry. quote, it's david beckwith an austin communications consultant who spent four years in the white house working with former vice president dan quayle. he considers himself an expert on the difficulties facing a politician turned punch line. quote, once it happens, he said, it's almost impossible to reverse. next, greetings from joe biden. the vice president on a trip to south america right now making stops in brazil, colombia, trinidad, and tobago. the white house posted a check and video from his visit to a flower farm down in colombia one that exports more than half its output to the u.s. biden had advice for married men

everywhere. >> my wife is extremely partial to flowers and roses are her favorite so my advice to all of you married men, no matter how long you've been married, continue to court your wife if you know what's good for you. >> finally, michigan governor, republican governor rick snyder tries his hand at outreach to female voters. detroit free press reporter kathy gray tweeted a picture of pro snyder stickers from a conference yesterday. a play on marshmallow peeps from, you know, easter, with the words "i'm a rick chick." let's see how that one plays anyway. up next, the right wings' favorite tactic the bait and switch. no one did it better than michele bachmann. ahead. you're watching "hardball" the place for politics. s mission i upgraded your smart phone. ♪ right. but the most important feature of all is... the capital one purchase eraser. i can redeem the double miles i earned with my venture card to erase recent travel purchases.

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good morning everybody. here's what's happening. tornadoes slammed oklahoma city and its suburbs earlier tossing around cars and debris. at least five people are dead. thousands are without power. the forecast is more dangerous conditions ahead. the woman held in mexico on drug charges has been released. she spent nine days in a mexican jail. more newsmagazine at the top of the hour. welcome back to "hardball." bait and switch, an old trick of course, now being used by the right wing. take an issue that fires people

up and switch it to a different target. they did it with the swift boating of john kerry, took anger at his anti-war stance after the war and took it to attack his actual war records. bush and cheney did it in the way they handled 9/11. they took the anger about that attack and used it to sell the country on a war that had nothing to do with it, iraq. michele bachmann who announced she is stepping down this week was a master of bait and switch and in her announcement video gave us another great example how the game is played. listen to what she says about benghazi. it comes while she is listing her accomplishments as a u.s. congresswoman. pay close attention to how she phrases the president's culpability on benghazi. let's watch. >> making publicly clear this administration's outrageous lack of action in benghazi, libya, and the subsequent political coverup which resulted in the deaths of four honorable, dedicated public servants. >> so as she whizzed that by you

like a fastball or a curveball but did you catch it? it was the coverup of what happened in benghazi that killed the four people there in the benghazi incident. it doesn't make any sense but we've gotten so used to it people just listen, absorb it, and don't think. the managing editor of grio.com is very smart to come on this show and msnbc analyst and the washington bureau chief for the huffington post. i have spent a lot of time trying to figure out how they whiz this past people. they get the middle of the road. not knocking people. people that don't do this like we do full-time. they do it real quick. so they appeal to people's emotions about 9/11, fair enough. they even sing country western songs about it. all of a sudden remember how you felt and we're fighting in iraq. it has nothing to do with it. you're legitimately angry so let's bait and switch. take the anger and switch it to iraq. they did it to screw john kerry. of course it was a good debate what he said after the war in vietnam. i can disagree with the way he said it but then they go after his war record which was

unblemished and say oh, get these guys to come around these veterans and dub him for that. you take the thing you can be mad about and whack the other person with it. there is bachmann in the screwiest one ever saying that this alleged coverup of benghazi killed chris stevens and the other three diplomats going back in the way back machine and killed them somehow before the incident because of how the coverup was handled. it doesn't make any sense but i can hear people say, yeah. that sounds good. bait and switch. i'm looking out for it all the time now. your thoughts? >> absolutely. it is funny it's kind of fitting that michele bachmann was the person who took the tea party inside the house of representatives. she was one of the main people who did it. because the tea party is the ultimate example of this, chris. remember the original supposed complaint of the tea party were the bail outs. we bailed out the big banks. that supposedly got it going. what they did was they came out and they immediately turned all that anger, all that frustration, all that fear about the economy on to the victim. it was the deadbeat home owners. it wasn't the banks. it wasn't wall street. it wasn't the people that fund

the tea party. the people, the big corporations that are really behind growing this movement out of a so-called grass roots into a movement. it was the poor. the 47%. and they've managed to sustain that since 2010. this is a tactic that comes from talk radio. i really believe what we're seeing is a republican party that doesn't have solid policy prescription but what they do instead is they just tweak emotion. and talk radio is brilliant at this. you're mad? we'll tell you who the real culprit is. it's not who you wong, not big business, not wall street screwing you over. it's these people directing it at immigrants, directing it at the president. they're really good at it and so is michele bachmann. >> the idea of bait and switch. the basic idea is you're a car dealer and you say you got a great car here. just paid a thousand bucks. it's only a couple years old. you get to the lot it's not there. we got this other beauty and a couple of these and they're selling you something else. that is how bait and switch works. they get you on the lot and sell you something you weren't

thinking about. now they take legitimate anger and flip it to something else. >> they went from bail out and switched elsewhere. what they really put it on was obama care. if you notice that's the switch to almost everything is obama care. they'll find something that you could be legitimately angry about and then switch over here to obama care. sometimes it's the economy. obama care. bail out? obama care. even the irs scandal, marco rubio put out a statement recently that said the only solution to this irs scandal is to repeal obama care. that sounds silly but it follows their bait and switch logic. their logic is the irs is going to have some involvement in the implementation of obama care. >> i think the media is pushing that line too. >> it strikes you as just completely bizarre until you can get into that strategy shall the bait and switch. and then it makes sense. oh, okay. i see what you're doing. >> they can't come out with another argument. what are we going to do with the 40 million people uninsured? they're going right back to the e.r. they don't have an alternative. to play this game -- joy, that

is the issue i think. >> yeah. >> the democrats are never perfect. they're trying to do something. not always trying sometimes which i go crazy about like jobs. they don't even try. but they have incentive to do it because it is sort of their ideology. >> right. >> the other party just skips the argument because they can't win it and say this stupid kind of -- let's look this. i'm a big fan of this writing in a great column about michele bachmann's real legacy. he wrote, quote, bachmannism is far from finished. the minnesota right winger deserves to k memorialized because she perfected a tactic well suited to the current media environment. continually toss out outlandish, baseless charges and eventually some will enter the main stream media. i think we've got it there where she is in the good-bye speech of hers, it wasn't exactly bipartisan, she is trashing the president again for obama -- the only bill she has introduced in her whole career apparently, 37, i don't know how many times the same thing to get rid of obama care. i think that's why she is leaving her seat. because at home they know she is not effective.

nothing to do with ideology. she is not an effective congress person. >> she is not an isolated case. right? what you really do have right now is you have a policy party in the democrats and you have an emotionalism party, talk radio party in the republicans. they haven't proposed a solid sort of tangible new idea that i can remember in a very long time. but barack obama gave them this emotional sort of crucible where they can direct all of their energy and all of their anger at this one person. this is the guy who crystalizes everything you hate about where this country is going so they don't have tho have policy. they can do what you do in entertainment. constantly harp on something about obama is not right. there is something you don't like. >> i have you revved up. i have to ask the obvious question because i know what your wonderful answer is going to be i think. do you think the ted cruz who was born and nobody denies this, not an accusation which was absurd obama was born in kenya or indonesia. he was born actually in canada. >> yes. >> to an american mother.

obama was born and everybody knew it. nobody has ever challenged this to an american mother. will they then adopt the same approach they took to someone born overseas? they claimed in the case of obama, to someone who was actually born in another country, that is ted cruz. will they attack him as some sort of interloper who is not eligible to run for president? do you think they might? just guessing. >> right. you know what? it is funny because they did it with rubio. as soon as rubio started to step out of line and edge toward immigration you started to hear the same things about him that maybe he is not eligible to run for president. >> what are they going to do with this guy? are they going to let him run for president? he is born in canada. another country. >> purely situational ethics. >> yeah. >> completely situational ethics. >> as long as he said what they want. >> i heard that phrase in the '60s. situational ethics. if it's our guy foe problem. wave him in. where is he going? doesn't matter. >> as long as he sticks to their

line. then he is okay. >> some of these people think canada is more american than hawaii anyway. they're completely cuckoo anyway. thank you. good to have you on. up next, inside the 16-year man hunt for one of america's most wanted fugitives, whitey bulger. brother of billy bulger the big guy up in massachusetts all those years. this is "hardball." steakhouse, where tonight we've switched their steaks with walmart's choice premium steak. it's a steakover. it's tender. good flavor. it just melts in your mouth. mine's perfect -- man! we're actually eating walmart steaks. are you serious? fantastic! that was a good cut of meat. [ earl ] these are perfectly aged for flavor and tenderness. i would definitely go to walmart to buy steaks. walmart choice premium steak in the black package. it's 100% satisfaction guaranteed. try it. walmart choice premium steak in the black package.

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arkansas senator mark pryor has a tough re-election fight in 2014 and in his first tv ad he is running against president obama and new york mayor bloomberg and expanded background checks for gun sales. let's watch. >> the mayor of new york city is running ads against me because i oppose president obama's gun control legislation. nothing in the obama plan would have prevented tragedies like newtown, aurora, tucson, or even jonesboro. i'm mark pryor. and i approve this message because no one from new york or washington tells me what to do. >> all politics is local. a poll out this week found a majority of arkansas voters actually support background checks and more voters there say they'd be more likely to vote for senator pryor had he supported the manchin/toomey compromise. i am very suspicious of those polls.

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metamucil. 3 amazing benefits, 1 super fiber. ♪ welcome back to "hardball." next week in boston a jury selection begins in a highly anticipated trial of whitey bulger the notorious leader of the winter hill gang sort of irish mafia for his alleged role in 19 murders, extortion, loan sharking, and trafficking narcotics charges. whitey bulger is considered both folk hero and criminal sometimes both at the same time in south boston especially. his brother billy was a major politician in the senate up there in massachusetts and jack nicholson's role in "the departed" was loosely based on bulger. here is a clip from that movie. >> when i was your age they would say you could become cops or criminals. what i'm saying to you is this. when you're facing a loaded gun,

what's the difference? >> that was from the trailer. next week's trial promises to trump anything hollywood could imagine. joining me now is kevin collin coauthor of the new book about bulger called simply "white biel jere america's most wanted gangster and the man hunt that brought his to justice." first of all explain it to people who don't know it i always say south bonnett where my eternal side is from and where i lived in the '80s and '90s, literally a peninsula, figuratively an island. it is a place that thinks itself apart from the city. if you don't have to go there you wouldn't go there. a lot of people didn't go there any very recently. not on the way to anywhere. >> no. southy is southy. >> like stnd. >> very similar and very insular. it is very irish in ethos though the irish are really only 50% or 60% of the population. even when whitey was growing up in the '30s and '40s even the

albanian kids had to sing irish songs in school. there is nothing worse to the irish consciousness than being a rat, informer. that's what this guy became. >> let's talk about whitey. i know his brother billy. he was a big senate president up there. almost like angels with dirty faces the old movie from the '30s where one guy goes the right way and the other the wrong way. >> very much. >> is there really an attitude in southy i don't care how tough the kids are even as grown-ups but is there really an attitude the only difference between being on the side of the law and against the law is there isn't any difference? >> i think that existed back in the day. i think when he came to power there were a lot of people that believed that and bought the robin hood bologna but that doesn't exist anymore. the people that believe that, you know, i would compare them to the mother of the chechen bombers who says her sons are innocent. >> crazy talk. i like charles tan, a little different part of the town, the old time working class long

shoremen. is this real, this rooting for the bad guys up there? >> like i said i think back then it was. i don't think that exists today. first of all, whitey's southy is long gone. he'll be tried in a courthouse named for old pal joe mokely who grew up in the same neighborhood. >> just drove by it. wasn't he a chicken hawk as a kid? >> i have no information on that. >> you didn't? >> we looked for that. that had been published in previous books. >> that would not make him a very heroic figure. >> he was clearly a womanizer. one of the fascinating things in our books is this guy is a gangster and fbi informant and killer and he has two domestic situations in which one woman doesn't even know the other exists for 20 years. he's balancing that life. i mean, in some respects, one of the things shelly murphy, my coauthor found out he actually went to see a shrink like tony soprano. he was so screwed up in the '80s that he was trying to balance these two women. >> as we watch this trial, 19 murders involved, what does that

mean, they can't figure him, it's a regular charge? >> a rico act, a murder in a rico prosecution, chris, a murder is no different than shaking down a bookie. it's one predicate act. all they have to do is find him guilty of two predicate acts and that to me is like -- >> actions carrying out the conspiracy theory. >> shooting fish in a barrel in this case. there are so many charges facing him. as i said -- >> they could never figure him, never nail him as a direct killer though. even as a guy who would put a contract on somebody. >> they have no -- they could have -- he is awaiting capital murder charges in both florida and oklahoma. they want to execute him. but the feds want to take the first shot. >> there is no federal execution is there? >> not on this case. >> so can they hold him and keep him from getting executed? >> like i said, after the feds are done with him oklahoma -- >> will he throw this? >> i don't know. this isn't about getting acquitted but getting even. >> this appeals to my love of crime stories. it is very sick of me. something about this grabs me. i love all that stuff.

thank you. the book is called "whitey bulger, america's most wanted gangster and the man hunt that brought him to justice." what great macho we got here. thank you. when we return let me finish with the right wing's bait-and-switch game which is really dangerous. we'll try to cut right through it. with the spark miles card from capital one, bjorn earns unlimited rewards for his small business. take these bags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjorn's small business earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth ] why settle for less? ahh, oh! [ garth ] great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. here's your wake up call. [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? [ crows ] now where's the snooze button?

let me finish tonight with this. think about this bait-and-switch number they pull on the right. keep in mind how it's done. first they find something you really don't like. a matter that really burns you up. then when you are white hot with anger they present something different for you to hate or fear. whatever they're trying to get you to do. so they find veterans in the vietnam war who don't like what john kerry said in opposing the war after he got back from his service over there. then they take those angry men and say they're angry not about what kerry said in opposing the war but what he did during the war. nobody notices the trick that's been pulled. the swift boating is completed. we all get angry with the people who planned 9/11. while the anger is still hot they say we need to attack a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. bait and switch. so easy like taking candy from a baby. they know americans are afraid of a nuclear attack but can't prove saddam hussein has nuclear weapons so they switch to

another vaguer threat wmd weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical. since so many countries have them they know that some country in the middle east having them wouldn't get us into a war but since they got us focused on nuclear weapons being in iraq the bait has been set. bait and switch. look for it next time you see a pitch. from the hawks. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being here. hit again. tornadoes sweep through oklahoma with terrifying and deadly results. right before your eyes dramatic and new pictures of tornadoes forming across the plains -- sudden and random. at this hour breaking news with more violent weather in the midwest. good morning to all of you. this news is almost unthinkable today. another huge tornado roars through parts of oklahoma just 11 days since the last one did both bringing death and untold destruction.