f a heart attack or stroke. use caution when driving or operating machinery. common side effects include nausea, trouble sleeping and unusual dreams. with chantix and with the support system it worked for me. [ male announcer ] ask your doctor if chantix is right for you. this morning my question, what can we learn from the first lady's response to a heckler? plus, the growing social movement in carolina. my report from the ground. and the 11-year-old speaking truth to power and winning. and first, did you notice a little something different about the president this week? we call it swagger. ♪ swagger, swagger ♪ i got my swagger back good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. mark the date now because it will be the most important day remaining in the obama

presidency. november 4th, 2014. it is the last chance democrats have to retake the house with president obama still in office. the last chance president obama has to get his legislative partner, nancy pelosi back in charge on the hill to move forward his agenda. too soon you say? 17 months away? well, don't tell that to president obama because this week he made it clear, game on. republicans want to block judicial nominations here are three for you all at once. how about some in your face choices for a national security adviser and u.n. am bos tor dor. that was on wednesday. vote to repeal my piece of the domestic legislation 37 times? well, on friday president obama went to california to tell everyone that his law is already working and republicans just

have to deal. >> and my suggestion to them has been let's stop refighting old battles and work to make this law work the way it's supposed to. >> first, let's talk about the president in the midterm. presidents don't gain seats in midterm, they lose them. that may be conventional wisdom, but it's not all right. the model is not just midterm elections, but second-term midterm elections. elections have consequences. they're supposed to give the voters what they want. in 20 st 12 voters wanted more president obama. partisan redistricting prevented them from getting it. obsession other so-called scandals. and most voters would rather tune out than listen to the media partisan bickering coming from the people who were

supposed to be doing the country's business. if this sounds familiar it may be because it happened before. back in 1998 when the republicans rejected governing in favor of scandal promotion worthy of the supermarket tabloids. that strategy of all scandal all the time cost them dearly in the midterms. in 1998 democrats with a democratic president gained seats in the house. now granted. presidents george w. bush and ronald reagan lost seats midterms. this is not so much the president loses seats but the republican's party tends to lose the seats. he essentially said my name may not be on the ballot, but my policies will be. >> well, it turns out that we're sheing in the states that implemented themselves to this law correctly, we're seeing good news. competition and choice are pushing down costs in the

individual market just like the law was designed to do. >> it may sound like measured policy talk, but it's pure electrical defiance. this week's wall street journal poll shows that it remains unpopular. check that. wildly unpopular. 49% of americans think it's a bad idea. only 37% polled think it's a good idea. that's the worst since polling began in 2009. worst than during distortions about what the aca actually was. worse than when the tea party wave brought republicans to power in the house in the republican's first term midterm election. so no doubt republicans have been winning the messaging fight on this one. maybe you remember the ad showing the elderly couple who were denied health care. the attack ads has been 5-1

versus ads defending the law. why go out of the way to make the piece of legislation at the all time most important point the centerpiece of his party's strategy? what is the strategy of democrats owning obama care? what if -- what if it turns out that president obama knows something that a lot of americans don't? like his point that in california insurance companies will return 45 million dlarz to small businesses and authorities because of obama care. the average planned premium is now expected to cost $1600 less than the budget office forecast in twooip. republican officers once opposed are now scrambling to get their states on board with the medicaid expansion plan. what if president obama with the open enrollment now less than four months away, what if he knows that the law will work? but he doesn't know it will work. he can't. until we get to full

implementation and probably a few years after that, no one can know for sure. yet, here he is, betting everything that it will work. and there is one word for that kind of audacious, swagger. joining me this morning, editor of the "washington post" want blog ezra klein. and professor of religious studies and graduate chair of religion at the university of pennsylvania. maria theresa kumar, the ceo of voter latina and the director of the secular coalition for america. thank you all for being here this morning. >> thank you. >> what do you make of this? is this a policy move? the only way it is going to work is to get them signed up? >> here's what i make of it. i'm ecstatic we get to argue about the affordable care act. i've been waiting for years to

get back to this point. i thought something the president said in those remarks is really the thing to focus on. in the states trying to implement this correctly we're seeing it work. that's true. oregon, washington, california, maryland, we're seeing really great things there. we tend to think of policies either working or not working. either we do it and it's good or we do it and it's bad. every state sets up its own exchange. either they do it or the feds do it. and you can have a state like california -- arnold schwarzenegger was the first in the states. they're getting the word out. it could work really well in california. then over in texas. >> louisiana. >> the medicaid expansion isn't going to go into effect at all. the big question about the

affordable care act in 2014. if it works, great, in the states trying to make it work, great. and it's a disaster in the states trying to make it a disaster. does that make barack obama look bad or does that make republicans in texas look bad? and in particular hispanics in texas want to get the medicaid expansion. they just got perry. >> but it's also very political. in order for it to work, it needs 2.7 million young people in the roles. latino population is 14 years younger than the average american. then there are two republicans in the central ral lee up for grab ls. you know who is eligible to vote now? latinos. he is going to try to tout the affordable care out. but it's purely political.

he needs to get congressional members stacked in as soon as possible. he knows central california, that no one other pays attention to is there. now he needs to go to texas. texas has the largest population of eligible latino votes and goes toe-to-toe with rick perry and says i care about you. you need insurance. you're young and you're going to help carry this forward. >> part of what is fascinating is we see the snoegs thoo people a against obama care. some people think it's too liberal. but there's also a group of people against it because they think it's not liberal enough, not progressive enough. in many ways when we break down the affordable care act, this is a set of policies initially put forward by republican lawmakers, some now voting 37 time against the acc. >> i agree. i worked in the senate in 2003

and 2004 for senator sessions under bill fritz. i would say 80% of what is in the affordable care act, the republicans in the senate wanted. the medicaid expansion was a little une zir. the mandate, everybody knew it was required to make it work. i know that it's a step in the right direction. but it's so confusing. it's so hard to understand and comprehend for the average american. but i know the president is doing the right thing. he needs to educate people. i think he's just had it. he's worked so hard. he finally delivered what the country needed. and so there's not this gratitude out there and people don't really understand it. but they will in the end. >> almost a lack of celebration. part of what is surprising to me is the idea that now it's passed. now it's upheld by the supreme court. it certainly has limitations. but we were in fact working for multiple decades to get some

sort of health care reform. and now the president almost has to go and say hey, hey, for 30 years you said you wanted this. we got it. get on my side on this. now the president has to say, look, this is going to be good for everyone. i think this is a moment to drive the state through all these states that don't want to do this and have gutted their health care systems. in texas you don't have birth control. planned parenthood has been gutted. these are the same people are going to need health care. and one of the things i'm worried about with young people is there's been a lot of talk about how much money it's going to be and we should just pay the fine instead of getting health care insurance. this is a moment to say you really need to buy into this. it's also going to help the

plan. that's the important piece. >> we have to take a break, but when we come back i want to talk to you about rational self interest. both at the individual level and the governor. some of the p president's most surprising allies. you are not going to this believe who is supporting the affordable care act right now. swagger. ♪ look what mommy is having. mommy's having a french fry. yes she is, yes she is. [ bop ] [ male announcer ] could've had a v8.

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welcome back. we've been talking about the president's swagger on display this week thean the democratic party's risky calculation to make the president's health care law a centerpiece of next year's election. but democrats underestimated the intensity of the opposition before. look at the medicaid provision. who would have expected states to refuse to expand medicaid

under the affordable care act when it's such a good deal for them? usually the feds pick up between 50% and 85% of the bill. but the aca expansion is different. the federal government will pay 100% of the cost for the expanded population for the first three years, and after that no less than 90%. so it's a great deal for the states. they get billions of federal dollars for a program that takes up a big, and often the biggest chunk of state budgets. and yet many republican state lawmakers refuse to expand made kad because it's part of the hated aca. 15 governors say they will flat out refuse to expand medicaid. that's the states in red. other states are weighing the option. and in the rest in green, the governors support expanding medicaid. but some republican governors just can't say no to the money and are aggressively supporting a medicaid expansion. and that led to serious fighting in arizona.

in arizona, jan brewer, no fan of the aca, made good on her threat to veto any legislation sent her way until the state house passes a budget, including a medicaid expansion. in ohio, governor john kasich went so far as to invoke the name of ronald reagan. in florida, rick scott asked his legislature to expand medicaid. and in michigan, governor rick schneider is going to pass a bill expanding medicaid before they leave for the summer. is this just rational self interest? >> here is a bag. we brought this giant bag, and behind us a truck of free money for you, free money. would you like in of it? there was a study that looked at the 14 republican states looking to not do it. they calculated the states would lose $18 billion. they would have to spend an extra billion dollars above what they would normally do for compensated care. they're not just saying no to

free money. they're putting an extra burden on them because medicaid is paying for a lot of hospitals that treat the uninsured. they're not going to get the payment if they're sending medicaid back or sending the expansion back. they're going to have a lot of hospitals closing. the system is going to get worse. they are not just refusing free money, they're actively hurting their system. that's why you see jan brewer and rick scott and others making such a big priority of this. they're real dollars. they generate jobs. >> they're large retirement communities. they're voterses. when you look through that lens, of course they don't want to upset the base. other states are not retirement communities. >> so what am i to make now of this war between republican governors.

some like mine, bobby jindal, we may be a poor state, we may have a lot of people who need this, no, hands off obama care. >> well, i think most republican governors will come around. and mainly for assisted living and long term care. >> is this the difference? the elderly, there's not that same sense of problematic taking of government dollars that we see when we talk about poor people, african-american communities, those dollars are politicized in a way for the elderly they are not. >> when they were doing these laws in florida, the republican party went actively to assisted living facilities to register

them. they have already given back to the system. and who is their base? >> and talk to me about the connection between aca as a policy and the potential to help them shift. you talk about them a little bit in california. is this also not wanting to move latino voters? >> well, in order for you to sign up to exchange, they also provide you with the opportunity to sign up and register to vote. and 80% of them get on the voter rules and turn out. so if they do that, it's a new law. and you facilitate it but get individuals who may not ask. >> i got to say, when i'm looking at the pie chart and we ask people how people think their families are going to fair and 30% say we think worse off.

19% saying better off. and 39% saying not much difference at all. as a a broad point, one, the answers for most families, you're not going to notice. if you're rich you're going to pay higher taxes. one point i want to make on the issue is a really interesting way in which obama care is tied in with immigration reform. in the house, it's that house republicans want to lock anybody moving from undocumented to trying to get onto the path to citizenship. particularly obama care. so let's say that you are making 400% or 300% of the poverty line you are not eligible for the

subsidies that everyone else can get. i believe marco rubio came out and says, yeah, he agrees with that. so now you have a possibility where the way republicans will actually blow up immigration is in addition to blowing up immigration reform, the way they are going to blow it up is to say that immigrants should not be able to get affordable care act subsidies. it's not just that you have it happening in states with a heavy latino population, which is particularly heavily insured. that doesn't seem like great long-term politics for the republican party. >> it's not great long-term policies. we need more people to pay in than not, right? it's going to backfire on people who are middle age and taking care of elderly parents. and so the squeeze is not just going to be a population of 60

and over, but maybe 45 and older. >> yeah, the sandwich people. >> i also wonder about the decision that the republicans made to label aca as obama care, with the sense that obama would be radio active. when you look at his approval numbers, they have remained pretty standard. sort of half and half. no matter what is coming out. it feels like almost labeling it obama care may allow him his position, going out there and rallying for it to bring up the numbers of aca. >> i think in the end it will be built on how it all works. most people aren't going to notice. a few people will be really hugely helped. the big context for what they're doing, a lot of democrats for a long time said why is the administration not selling the law? why are they not out there every day? and it's what they looked into.

they need to go in and tell people how it's going to work. then they get mad. they try to go online. they can't. they can't get subsidies. this summer because they're coming in the fall and the exchanges activate in the summer, this is when it's all going to wrap up. this will be a popular law in good politics if it works. people need to know about it. they need to sign up. they need to time the salesmanship right. it's about this upcoming summer. that is going to drive how the law works in 2014. >> i love this. the other big presidential play this week was a judicial play. when you talk about swagger, three, three all in one day. i loved it. [ male announcer ] erica had a rough day. there was this and this. she got a parking ticket...

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welcome back to aur conversation about the president's second term swagger. we told you last week about the president's plan to nominate three judges to the dc circuit court all at once. it's a dare. daring republicans to block them all. and he did indeed nominate three judges this week. take a look at this image. do you notice anything? yep, he's not just filling the court, he's diversifying it, too. swagger! all right. so i am fascinated by this decision. this president has had a tough time getting all of his judicial nominations through. so this time this extremely important court, he puts three -- he puts forward three nominations -- assume because when you can't filibuster all three at the the same time. >> yeah, you can't filibuster all three at the same time. second, it gates away from the argument that you don't have enough women. you don't have enough minorities. you don't have enough of this or that. it also puts it in the face of

republicans to say do this. just come at me on this. and if you come at me on this, you are going to get it, and you're going to get it hard. when he did the nominations, i thought, yes, finally. this is what i wanted you to say for five years. i wanted you to get in your face and challenge them. >> it's part of what we have seen this week. it was a tough week for the president in certain ways. i promise i'm not talking about all the verizon stuff. that's tomorrow. but that's been part of what is so interesting about how aggressive he's being. to put three names forward to the court and have them all be nonwhite men struck them as exactly what much of the base has wanted, a kind of more aggressive president. >> and these are individuals that feed a lot of the stuff before it goes to the supreme court.

he needs big ones right now. it's a matter of how to get back on agenda. he needs gun control. he needs environment. he needs to figure out infrastructure. that is only going to happen if he engages with the republican party by doing what he did. this is my mandate. going after them and making sure he channels a little bit of lbj and what he does so well. combat in congress and then going to the district and talking to the american people. he needs a little bit of both. >> to make one point about this question, i don't agree that mitch mcconnell doesn't believe he can filibuster three judges at one time. >> he's like, try me. >> i think he will be fine with it. what is really important is it deals with the bulk of regulatory action.

and one thing that congress can't work with effectively is if he does turn to regulatory action. and the big places he's going to do is climate change. the epa is going to come out with a series of rules regulating power plants and possibly coal. it's going to be big aggressive efforts and one of the big questions is do they make it through the courts? if you put three democratic appointees on the courts x that makes it likely to get flu. so in terms of wins, it's not just about popular ones. it's about affecting the heating of the earth over time. >> wow. i want to pause on that. you're like, there's politics and then there's impacting the heating of the earth. and one thing here in terms of big wins what they are trying to create pathway for is troo actually doing something very big on climate change. that would be a huge change eefb

if it didn't go directly through congress. >> i would like to add i think obama will come back with a threat to get the senate to change the filibuster rules if they do go and filibuster all three of them. i would be surprised if they did. of course, they do need to vet them. there have been mistakes in the past on the republican side and the democratic side with judges that have been put forward that were not appropriate and issues came out and they withdrew. so they need a close look at them. i'm surprised if there was a move to filibuster all three of them. and risk having the rules changed on. >> it's appropriate. it's constitutional. when we are seeing the filibusters from low level administrative appointees, then we know something else is going on also. my favorite, favorite swagger move in terms of nominations this week is coming up. two bold choices. i can't believe they're back on the scene. love it. mine was earned in djibouti, africa. 2004.

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my favorite presidential swagger moment of the week, this press conference on wednesday when president obama nominated susan rice to replace tom donalan national security adviser. watching rice accept the president's nsa nomination was easy to think that in removing herself from consideration for secretary of state, she actually ended up exactly where she and the president always hoped she would be. just to up the ante, the president nominated snan s samantha power. she may be better known for a comment in an interview in 2008 when she was adviser to the obama campaign. you remember when she called then senator hillary clinton a

monster. the president's decision to embrace both rice and power was a serious in your face defiance move. clearly he's refusing to let his political opponent have a final say over who is and is not serving in his administration. and this is another piece of evidence that demonstrates good girls make friends and fearless women make history. i can't believe samantha power and susan rice are back. that was intense this week. no? am i making it up? sthafs a lot. >> the fact that they are both in such positions to change the course of the human rights agenda is incredible. and it goes back to what you were saying earlier. he is planting sides to his legacy is in 15 and 20 years from now. that's incredible. >> and to your point about there was some critique. there was a picture where

valerie jared's leg was in the picture. and not just women, like bad ass women. strong women. >> i think it really sends out a message because part of what happened is when susan rice and the benghazi thing happened, they really tried to vilify her. now by bringing her back, this says i am not afraid of strong women. i am not afraid to appoint them. you are going to have to deal with it. and for a lot of people watching the administration, this is long term. we need more women in the higher level positions of authority and power so the tone of things can change. it will be very different having a woman as opposed to a man. all of these changes that he's making are a different end road and republicans have to step up to this, too. this is a fact.

they really don't have that depth on their side for women who are able to be appointed to these positions. >> the first, no relation. not that we want to centralize women. michele bachmann is not susan rice. we have seen senator gillibrand talking about sexual assault. was it indicative? was it a reminder? i want toe listen to another woman who made her voice heard this week. >> while you are so dedicated and determined not all commanders are objective. not every single commander necessarily wants women in the force. not every commander believes what a sexual assault is. not every commander can distinguish between a slap on the ass and a rape because they merge all of these crimes together. >> so here on this question of military, of chain of command, of sexual assault, all of the

sudden you have a woman's voice like the senator and it reveals what happens when you don't have a female senator. >> i am very pleased and impressed by power going to the u.n. she has a strong background on lgbt rights, on women's rights, on freedom of religion. >> and one might argue the monster comment is indicative she won't make a good diplomat. it wasn't a diplomatic moment. her stepping down from the campaign at that time when she was a skilled and talented person was difficult for a lot of folks. it was stunning to see him stand there with both of these women. >> compare to this his national security and foreign team when he came into office. back then a set of things happened. first off the national security and his campaign folks didn't feel he was totally credible on

the issue. so they brought in hillary clinton saying you had a set of folks who were not necessarily obama people. these are his people. even the people that republicans and maybe the democrats don't like. but in a very significant way his team. kerry was an early endorser in 2008. it's hagel, who was close to him in the senate. it's rice and it's powers. this is obama creating the national security team. he doesn't feel he needs to appoint people to prove something about him. he is appoint people who want to be there. >> in west wing, bartlett takes c.j. craig. i love west wing. >> streaming on netflix. near you! that's right. watch it on tv. the first lady is next. she got a little swagger of her own. discover card.

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risk includes possible loss of principal. we couldn't have any real conversation about swagger this week without mentioning this. first lady michelle obama at a private fund-raiser on tuesday dealing with protester from the lgbt equality group gets equal. >> right now today, we have an obligation to stand up for those kids. and i don't care what you believe -- we don't -- wait, wait. one of the things that i don't do well is this. do you understand? >> so, if you don't think that sounded too swaggerish. consider she came down to speak with her, demanding that the president sign an executive

order prohibiting contractors they later said they were taken back by the first lady's response. you wrote about this this week. i want to start by saying, of course i support and have said repeatedly we must have this sort of law. but on the other hand, i appreciate how she managed the heckling. >> i do not support heckling the first lady. out of turn. at a private home with a lesbian couple there hosting. it was really out of pocket and very disrespectful. the moment i realize it made a turn when she was said i was taken aback. it's like, you sort of made the first lady as though she's not a real person. a real person who can feel, who has feelings, who would come down and speak to you one on one, and what she did was

absolutely right. but the whole thing afterwards is all the reactions on twitter, everybody had a meltdown. we're all like, you go. you do this. but at the same time, there are others who say, oh, no, she was absolutely right. >> but this is the danger that has always been the pleasure and pushback of an african-american first lady. a recognition of what the store owe types are that exist for black women. such that we appreciate the way she is navigating the space of being first lady in the entirely unique body. but we also know she can be relabed sapphire. and so we both want her to do what all of our mamas would do which is to say, i know you did not interrupt me. we can talk, but not right now. we also know the risks for her, but not for all of us are quite

different than they are for any other first lady. >> i think what you're saying is right. the way she handled it -- and she always handles it with grace. and what did the heckler expect to happen? you wanted her to continue talking while you were heckling her? she provided the space that you were asking for, and then you didn't want to fill the vak yup. of course you're going to be embarrassed. you should have been in the first place. >> i also want to say f we did get a statement, when we told them we were going to be talking about this. they said get equal has engaged president obama and his administration in many ways to help an lgbt workplace administration. they will help lgbt find jobs. we deeply respect the first lady as a powerful political leader in our country and came to her this week to ask for help.

again, i am a huge supporter of this policy. but the angst of building the coalition at a moment when many african-americans did their part came out from the naacp. the president coming out on marriage equality did their part. >> and what's a little strange is this was a private setting in a private home. the heckler had a chance, an opportunity to speak with her without the chaos. you were in a private home in a private setting that you could have talked to her. >> i think the heckling happened out of desperation. this would help them in a little bit. and they had successes early on with don't ask, don't tell being

repe repealed. but also maybe the first lady is positioning herself to run for office perhaps. >> i'm going to leave it on that. i would eat that with a spoon and ice cream. i would love that. she has repeatedly said the is not interested. but maybe, and that would be all kinds of swaggerific. thank you to my guests. i hope you all come back and hang out with me again soon. maria is staying for more. coming up, the man playing ostrich to the civil rights moment of our day. my letter is next. coming, north carolina. brothersd where we've switched their fruits and veggies with produce from walmart. it's a fresh-over. that's great. tastes like you just picked them. so far, it's about the best strawberry i've had this year. walmart works directly with growers to get you the best-quality produce they've ever had. all this produce is from walmart. oh, my gosh. i'm shocked. [ laughs ] i know where i'm going to be shopping for strawberries now. find fresh berries and all your quality produce backed by our money back guarantee.

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we've been talking this hour about the swagger exhibited by president obama this week. on monday 151 people were arrested as part of the latest moral monday. an ongoing grassroots movement against a radical right wing agenda in the state's republican-led general assembly.

now we are committing our entire next hour to talking about these courageous individuals, but i thought we should start with a letter to one north carolina man who is not moved by their efforts. dear governor pat mcrory, it's me, melissa. i can only imagine running a state cannot be easy. when you add pesky demonstrators your job becomes harder. because they are not willing to standby and watch the e registration of their hard fought freedoms. harder because you can't be bothered with hearing their grievances or meeting with them. on tuesday you told reporters i am very pleased it's been non-violence. say what governor? really? who did you think would be posing a risk of violence? the clergy in their collars? the disabled in their wheelchairs? the elderly who were present to observe? or were you expecting them to pull out knives and shank somebody just because they're from the state chapter of the

naacp and the advancement project. your state has a long history of protegss by black and brown folks. including one by a famous civilized student at a lunch counter. governor, if you would bother to meet with your constituents, maybe you would learn why they are gathering every week. >> >> they have decided to be robin hood in reverse. they're the george wallace of the 21st century. george wallace stood in the door of opportunity. they are now blocking voting rights and blocking health care opportunities and blocking jobs and whatnot. but it was all done with the hope -- we said come back to the constitution you swore to uphold. >> so here's the point. you may be a republican governor, but you represent all of the people of the great state

of north carolina, not just the members of your party. not just those who agree with you. when you refuse to meet with concerned citizens you show a callous disregard for what democracy is supposed to be. you have a choice of what kind of southern governor you want to be. you can go down in history like governor kerry sanford or like governor orvalt man who ordered the arkansas national guard to prevent the little rock nine from entering the school in 1957 because the movement is growing, and if you thought you had your hands full with moral mondays, get ready because witness wednesdays are coming. you may want the protesters to go away, governor, but they are just getting started and so are we, sinsincerely, melissa. when we come back at the top of the hour we're going in on north

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♪ welcome back. i'm melissa harris-perry, and i want to take you inside the growing political protest now under way in north carolina. one of the handful of battleground states with the power to turn the tide on national elections where in 2008 early voters delivered the state to president obama. for the first time north carolina picked a democratic president since 1976, and in so doing, forced north carolina from a red state to a blue in national elections. and then last year the state went to mitt romney by the slimmest o f margins, cementing north carolina as a toss-up, where it's anybody's game in 2016 and beyond the ghox is enshrined in the constitution. it takes it from thomas

jefferson's monument to the sanctity of individual liberty. the declaration of independence. section one on the equality of rights and persons in the north carolina constitution reads we hold it to be self evident that all persons are created equal. there are certain inalienable rights and among them are life, liberty, the enjoy mimt of the fruits of their own labor and the pursuit of happiness. but all of that began to change in 2010 when for the first time since reconstruction a republican majority empowered by big money and gerrymandering gained control of the state asemiblif. along with that came an agenda that threatened to take the state in a sharp radical right turn, pushing it from moderate roots to deeply red ultra conservatism. all that stood between those policies and the people of north carolina was the person i called the thin blue line.

democratic governor bev purdue and her veto stamp. that broke the election of pat mcrory put republicans in control of the state legislature for the first time in more than a century. when the flood gates opened, they unleashed a torrent of laws aimed at radical information. rolling back the progressive policy on everything from education, voting rights and criminal justice until one monday in mid-april, a small but determined kor rus of voices came together on the grounds of the legislative building in raleigh. they started to speak out against the policies of the north carolina republican leadership calling out the immoralities of the laws. each week the voices have grown louder and greater in the numbers until the weekly protest known as moral mondays transformed into a movement with a peak this past monday of more than 1,000 people.

and this week i was right there with them. i travelled to north carolina to see firsthand the work of this group of people from north carolina. hours before i sat down with the man at the head and the heart of this movement. reverend william barber. >> we have to go forward together. not one step back. >> we have a series of bill including voter i.d. requirements and doing away with same-day voter relation strags and a bill that would penalize parents of college students who vote where they attend school. a bill whose numerical name, sb666 is not lost on reverend barber. >> i got to do it because you all are pushing these buttons. but i'm going to put a label on it to at least say this is just pure wrong and evil and immoral.

and the bill said that if your daughter or my daughter were to choose to go to school outside of where we live, and they exercise their right to vote, which is the law in the city where they go to school, you would lose your $2500 tax credit, which is a poll tax of $2,500. >> packing away the social safety net is also a forum on the republican leadership's agenda. they shortened the window of time during which workers can receive them. despite that north carolina has the fifth highest unemployment rate in the country. >> on july 1st in north carolina, 165,000 people who lost their jobs from no fault of their own, who have been engaged in long-term work will lose their unemployment. >> he also added north carolina to the list of a 15 stated that opted out of st medicaid

expansion allotted by the political reform health care act. >> in the first two weeks of the session. not 500,000 people on medicaid. not 500,000 black people. not 500,000 white people. 500,000 poor people and disabled children. >> i was going to say mostly children. >> in a state with 1.6 million poor people and 600,000 of them are children. >> well, the protesters still have a lot more to say about the policies of the north carolina legislature. they'll be back at it again monday as the campaign moves to the second week. here talking about an actual movement and the policies that motivated it is a professor of law at north carolina central university school of law and legal counsel for the naacp north carolina chapter. maria theresa kumar, an msnbc

contributor. ari, author of huerding donkeys. and judith brown dianes, codirector of the advantage project which has played an active role in organizing the protests. thank you all for being here. professor, being there on monday is one of the most meaningful things i've had the opportunity to do in a long time. tell me what finally moved this group of people to action. >> well, it was a combination of things. looking at what the republican majority was doing to poor people. to people without a voice. and having absolutely no compassion about what they were doing. at the same time that the governor is cutting medicaid. cutting back on unemployment. the governor is raising the salary of his closest advisers.

he just hired someone this past week and gaf them a $38,000 raise and they cried poverty. they're talking about redoing the tax system, which shifts the burden of paying tax from the rich to the poor. making people pay for taxes on services. if you're a beautician, for instance, they would have to collect tax when they do your hair. >> which means both that a working person like a beautician is going to have to raise their prices and if you're an ordinary person paying that, then you're in the circumstance of basically paying a sales tax on that service. the number of things going on in north carolina is part of what is stunning. every time i talk to one of the organizers, like, that was one i hadn't even heard yet. right? what is happening --? >> they're piling on. >> yeah. in this purple state.

long a purple state. where sometimes they would have a democratic governor but a republican vote for presidency. suddenly there's a mandate to move to the right. >> this is total extremism because they see the numbers. they see what's happening. we've had more african-americans retiring and moving back to north carolina. the latino population is growing. it has one of the highest rates of increases in asian americans. when you she that coming, the you're the folks in power who need to keep power who are rich and you want to keep rich, then what you do is you start to move as far to the right as you can. and so it really is piling on. every day it's something new they decided they have to do that really hurts working families in north carolina. >> and as much as it's new, it is also from a standard playbook. we talk about them in wisconsin. they all seem to be coming at

the same time. this doesn't feel like an indigenous north carolina call from the people for these policies, it feels important as a big right wing agenda. >> i think north carolina is the new wisconsin. both in terms of what the legislature is trying to do here. to physically fit the state and put it on it but also in terms of the progressive resistance. and north carolina is not getting the coverage that wisconsin got. i'm really glad you were able to go down there. people should care about what's happening here. north carolina is the future of the country. north carolina looks like what the rest of the country will look like and is increasingly look like in terms of demographics. it's the forefront of being a new south state, people don't think of when they think of the south, but it's moving there. they are trying to move it back to the old south. >> when we say old south, part of the reason i wanted to read that constitution is that was the constitution that was written during reconstruction. it's not like, oh, they're trying to turn back to this the

'50s. they're trying to turn back to this the 19th century at this point. >> it's not just north carolina. they're trying to do the exact same thing in arizona, in all the southern states. when you look at the electoral map, it's all in the south. they recognize that they are in power. they want to hold onto power. they want to at the same time by piling on, they want to confuse the electorate of where they shouldn't be concentrating. and at the end of the day it goes back to really depressing folks that are already depressed to make sure they are not fighting. the fact that moral mondays are such a diverse group of americans, that makes it exciting. the first time they said president obama was an accident. the second time no, this is america. >> the part about piling on is people confuse because really every day you're like, how could this be? so i guess it was friday that

was the law that allowed death row inmates, the racial justice act, was rolled back. tell us what that law was. >> well, the racial justice act was in effort to help those people who were on death row to challenge the sentencing that they received based on prosecutorial misconduct, which occurred many times, or some discrimination in the selection of jurors. and it was a nar minded deal that we worked on for years to achieve and we finally got it. it began the implementation phase and cases were heard in court where we were able to demonstrate there was widespread prosecutorial conduct in several cases there. there had been discrimination in the selection of jurors. and those inmates who were involved had their sentences reduced to life.

now, that's very important for us because we have known forever that this has been going on. but with the racial justice act we were able to establish it as a matter of law in court and now they want to smsh that bill so you're unable to demonstrate that that has occurred. >> everyone stay with me. like the money protesters in north carolina, we are just getting started, reaction from the ground is next. >> they're depending on us to give up. that will not suffice. we have to stand up. [ male announcer ] this is kevin.

to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again. and now i've got to take more pills. ♪ yup. another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪ [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. ♪ because what you dont know can hurt you.urance, what if you didn't know that it's smart to replace washing-machine hoses every five years? what if you didn't know that you might need extra coverage for more expensive items? and what if you didn't know that teen drivers are four times more likely to get into an accident? 'sup the more you know, the better you can plan for what's ahead. talk to farmers and get smarter about your insurance.

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it was time to engage in a

moral strategy that will u shine a light on this extreme ideological aggressive movement that is happening in the general assembly and to stop it before it spreads worse across the south. north carolina is kind of known as a progressive state. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> so when new york goes backwards it rains on the south. >> this was north carolina naacp president william barber. talking about the heart of north carolina's progressivism and the cross of the legislature is education. this week, the executive director for the institute of southern studies detailed a plan to undermine the public education system writing, last session cuts to schools eliminates more than 4300 teaching jobs. another would e lip nate teacher

tenure. a proposal to shudder at least one unc campus is on hold following a public outcry. joining us is someone from the other side of that aisle. and chairman of the north carolina black caucus. thank you for being here. >> pleasure. >> do the republicans have a mandate for these kinds of cuts in education? >> they are really working hard at ensuring we take our state backwards in terms of education and providing, as you said, vouchers for those who are trying to go a different direction. they want to drupt the education as we know it. we're very disappointed with the direction that they're headed at this time. >> i want to ask you a tough question. i was there. you and i had a chance to meet one another in the state house.

we talked a bit. here is the question i have for you. what is going on with the democratic party? it looks like a republican party that is raining down despair. you have a morals monday movement but then the democrats in the state house, i want to know wharks are you proposing? what are you pushing forward? how are you resisting from the inside? >> i would make it every attempt to keep out members on task. we are legislatures. there are times when we have opportunities on the floor to continue to pound on them about the legislation going forward. the things that they are trying to take out to destroy the people of north carolina. we have opportunities to discuss it. i think we do a good job when we have those opportunities. people talk about us not being in the majority. i think we have been vocal and vigilant. we continue to speak out when we

can to discuss the issues. a lot of the public is not aware of what is going on in raleigh. we stay focused. i miss taking it out to the public. >> judith, i want to bring you in here. this is the local naacp. the national work that you are doing to support this local effort. university of north carolina, one of the oldest state systems in the country. and then these massive cuts. is this where you end up with an interracial coalition that says too far? >> i think it's all of if things that they're trying to do. this is their agenda on steroids. they feel like they have to get it all done very quickly. and so the idea is if they can get rid of all of the safety net for working families, if they can get rid of educational

opportunities if they can keep the money in their own pockets then they have nirvana. but they have a problem. the people are salespeopling up. reverend barber has been visionary about this movement. and the fact you can get a multiracial coalition is because people understand the message. the message of using the moral frame work of both the constitution and the bible coming together. we often don't see these white folks. sometimes poor white folks vote against their economic interests. they have decided to wake up and join in the party. >> hold on with me for just one moment. we're going to have much much more on moral mondays. for a moment we need to go live to newark, new jersey. there's developing news. this week governor chris christie called for special elections after the death of long time senator frank lautenberg. right now the democratic mayor

cory booker is making his long time expected bid for the seat. >> it's very important to me at the outset that i acknowledge the service and the leadership of senator frank lautenberg. as a senator and as a citizen he has been one of the most impactful new jerseyens. he was truly a giant in the united states senate. he was a giant for our state and a giant for our nation. from a service in world war ii, to his asiduous work, we are blessed by his contributions, and i say the generations yet unborn will feel the impact of his leadership and contributions. >> and i'm here today to officially announce my candidacy to be new jersey's next united

states senator. [ applause ] many of you have heard me say a lot that democracy is not a spectator sport. that now as much as in any time we must brick people together. we must get into the complicated arena and take on the difficult challenges. work with conviction and courage to make the countries, the states and communities live up to our hopes, dreams and actions. not justify or citizen doubt in

despair. this has been what i have done with others here in newark. we didn't sit back spouting ideology from the bleachers or cheer for our team or jeer at others for the stands with passionate partisan zip. no. we in newark have been doing things differently. >> to there it is. the mayor of newark, new jersey, actually ended up with an unlikely national profile. cory booker has really become a bit of a national figure. he wants to go to washington, d.c. and be the next united states senator from the state of new jersey. and i am sure we're going to hear a lot more about it on twitter very soon. but right now i want to continue with another local story, one i think really does have national implications. this is the story of what is going on in north carolina. i have the head of the congressional legislative caucus

for african-americans there in the state of north carolina. and i want to ask you another question here. you know, part of what i was watching and what we'll talk about is the fact that people are being arrested. they're being arrested for peaceful protest in the state house. it seems to be because of state house rules. is there something that even as a minority party you all could do in order to allow the people to have the right to be in their own general assembly directing their own representatives without having to fear arrest? >> well, i think that coming back from what they call witness wednesday, and they will be in the halls of the general assembly in a different format, not blocking doors or anything that would cause a problem for them. so they're going to flood the halls on wednesday of this week because it's witness wednesday. they're coming back monday, as you know. clergy are coming this weekend. i sent an appeal to ask him to

meet with the fake leaders of north carolina who have to answer to their people about all of the things that are going hon in the state and, you know, unemployment and all the health issues. i make a personal appeal. i sent a letter to him yesterday to please, if nothing more, meet with the clergy of the state of north carolina who have a lot in this. the parishioners will then try to define answers answers to the questions they're facing each day of their live. >> it seals like a minimal thing to meet with the constituents. >> i would say so. he's the governor of all the people of north carolina, so i would hope that he would act that way. you understand what i'm saying. >> thank you. and tlaung for making the drive and being there to join us today. and now for those of you watching and wondering just how much is at stake with what is happening in north carolina, hear from the woman who knows all too well that these issues

are literally life and death issues. >> through your own election we all really got together. you can see the turnout. we have these pockets where just like any other state, but we're a progressive north carolina southern state, and it just got taken away from us. new rules! introducing volume without fear of clumps. new covergirl clump crusher. big green brush, curved to crush. load on the volume and the curve hugs your lashes tight, destroying every clump in its way. 200% more volume. zero clumps. so be fearless! and crush those clumps. new clump crusher from easy, breezy, beautiful, covergirl. take the challenge! [ male announcer ] everyone has the ability to do something amazing. ♪

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or if you have symptoms such as persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. since enbrel helped relieve my joint pain, it's the little things that mean the most. ask your rheumatologist if enbrel is right for you. [ doctor ] enbrel, the number one biologic medicine prescribed by rheumatologists. i was accompanied on my business trip to north carolina by my 11-year-old daughter parker. she had questions about the protester who chose to be arrested. she was wondering what motivated them to participate and posed the question to a north carolina organization that works to get pro-choice women elected to democratic office. >> my son was very ill about a year ago, and if he hadn't had access to health care, you know, i don't know what would have happened to him. and i just think it's morally wrong to deny people access to health care. so i'm very upset about that.

and another thing they did right off the bat in this general assembly was to drastically reduce the unemployment benefits. i have a brother that was unemployed for a very long time, and i just think it's not what we should be doing for all the people who through no fault of their own are out of work in this bad economy. >> carol now joins me from raleigh, north carolina. carol, thank you for being here this morning. >> thank you for having me. it was great to meet you on monday. >> thank you. so you were arrested on monday. i think i will never forget the visual image of you all walking in two by two to walk in. the looks on your faces. ultimately, how do you feel now at the end of the week after having been arrested on monday? >> it was a wonderful experience for me. it gave me an opportunity to see inside the wake county detention center.

the thing that i was really impressed by, all of the staff that we encountered at the general assembly, everyone at the detention center were very professional and very kind. so it was a very profound experience for me. the experience of being there with so many other people who had made this decision to be arrested was also very meaningful to me. to talk to people about what was the thing that led you to this be arrested? what was the tipping point for you? >> the point you just made is one that reverend barber makes each monday. the officers are not the enemy. it feels there's a lot of respect. but the fact that you are being arrested in that case. so tell me, what takes you to that place? when did you say i am willing to go down and be arrested?

>> you know, i think i am following a lot of the things the general assembly has done. it was the piling on and piling on. my husband works for the north carolina justice center. they're very involved in fighting for working people, too. every day when we read the newspaper, we can't believe the additional things that they're doing to hurt working families in north carolina. and if i had to think of what the tipping point was. this is my state. and this is our state. and i don't like the direction they're taking this in in so many levels. there is a tipping point where you have toy say i've got to do something other than sit back and watch this train wreck.

>> thank you, i know it took real courage to go down there. i appreciate the work that you're doing. >> thank you for having me on the show. >> the righteousness of arrest as a political strategy, we're digging into that next. >> if there is anyone who is sbept upon engaging in civil disobedience, would you take the center aisle? ♪ [ snoring ] [ male announcer ] zzzquil™ sleep-aid. [ both snoring ] [ male announcer ] it's not for colds. it's not for pain. it's just for sleep. [ snoring ] [ male announcer ] because sleep is a beautiful thing™. ♪ zzzquil™. the non-habit forming sleep-aid from the makers of nyquil®. ♪

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thou cometh and we thy saveth! what are you doing? we doth offer so many discounts, we have some to spare. oh, you have any of those homeowners discounts? here we go. thank you. he took my shield, my lady. these are troubling times in the kingdom. more discounts than we knoweth what to do with. now that's progressive. moral monday protesters are joining a long tradition. a key component of the strategy is to create visibility and win over supporters the righteousness of the cause. attracting media attention and along with it the attention of the people throughout the state of california. fellow citizens handcuffed and arrested while peacefully

dedissenting. i was there as they prepared to be placed under arrest. >> for those who will be arrested, typically they will stand there. they will stay there until the chief comes back, makes his final announcement. unlike the old days, they will not have the metal handcuffs where they snap them around your wrist. i'm sorry for those of you who are looking for that experience. zbr just two hours later, here's what happened. >> you have five minutes or you will be arrested. >> we are here to exercise our

rights. it says the people have a right to assemble together. ♪ this little light of mine i'm gonna let it shine ♪ >> what are people being arrested for exactly? >> well, for exercising their constitutional rights. the mayor was right on time. they had been charged with trespassing in their own house that they pay for. they're being charged with displaying a placard. typically 8.5 by 11 sheet of paper, and for violating the rules. the constitution provides that every citizen has a right to be on public property. this is public property. and to address and assemble, to

direct and destruct their legislature. in no way is it unlawful. what is unlawful is what they are doing to the general assembly and those who came to protest. but this is what democracy looks like. >> look, we talk about the heckling incident earlier. heckling is not a strategy. this is a strategy. there's a table and people sign up. they wear green arm bands if they're submitting to arrests. you have rules about who can, who can't, who shouldn't be arrested. the advancement project is providing a lot of support logistically. what is it like to take these emotions and turn them into sfrj? into a movement?

there's a lot of people who are the architect of the movement. and really you start with organizing. you start with mobilizing. you get people connected to the issues that they care about, that they will keep coming out. then you use media to publicize it. we have a litigation strategy waiting for the moment these pass. then we move onto voting. we're going to vote these people out. >> part of what you saw, they were moving out and the ambulance. they also arrest people in wheelchairs. people with disabilities. they put them on the ambulance and take them to the jail. judith was saying the last piece is voting. but man, that's the first part they came for, right? cutting a full wook from the early voting period.

banning all early voting on sunday. prohibiting a child tax deduction if your kid votes in a town other than yours. photo i.d. laws. enforcing a five-year waiting law. disqualifying the mentally incompetent. >> they are going back to the days of poll taxes and character tests and grandfather clauses. it's shocking what is going on there. and section five of the voting rights act is before the supreme court right now. 40 of 100 counties in north carolina are subject to section five, meaning they have to get your voting changes cleared with the federal government. and north carolina is acting as if section five is already out. what is happening in north carolina is a window into what a post section five world will look like. which is the south and all the rest of the country, but particularly the south, will be emboldened to do as many voter suppression tactics as possible

and to do things that we haven't seen since the end of reconstruction. >> and you wrote about john lewis and his lifetime of legacy and work on this question. >> well, john lewis was arrested 40 times. most notably when he was beaten severely in alabama, which led to this the pes saj of the voting rights act. and the fact that he had to be arrested so many times i think just shows you the persistence of the civil rights movement. and now 48 years later they are on the same battle. look at what is happening in north carolina. and we need it as much today as in 1965. >> stick with us. they know how important north carolina is. i want to address it when it comes back.

they can hear about north carolina raising up. >> it's crazy to see the huge ramt of people that are here. i missed a payment. aw, shoot. shoot! this is bad. no! we're good! this is your first time missing a payment. and you've got the it card, so we won't hike up your apr for paying late. that's great! it is great! thank you. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card with late payment forgiveness.

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i wasn't the only one who took a trip to north carolina this week. thursday president obama made his own visit to a school in the tar heel state to announce a plan to connect students to high speed broad band in the next five years. it will likely not be his last, because come 2016 north carolina will be a highly contested political battleground in the race for the presidency. there's a reason this is happening in the tar heel state. >> it was highly protested in california. that's what is happening now in north carolina. north carolina is going to be where the rest of the country

will be in the next 10 to 20 years. demographically speaking. and even single women. what they're doing is throwing everything gns the wall to see what sticks. and then they're going to export to the rest of the country. and you know who is looking really closely at voter i.d. laws, not just arizona and florida, but texas. they're also looking closely at section five. you have 2.5 latinos that are unregistered. 2012 was an experiment on voter i.d. laws. eneverybody worked incredibly hard. we alauded for everybody who voted in protest of the laws. that was just the beginning. a lot of these are passing not just in the eyes of the election season. they are doing an incredible job. >> and i want to point out this isn't a vague bad guy. we know who is behind this.

coke brothers finance candidate onto the wake county school board took over the wake county school board. saw what stuck. art pope is how the governor gets elected and he puts hope in the government. gives him one of the highest positions in north carolina. >> he would have put him in to run the budget. that's essentially what's happening in north carolina right now. and they want to create a society there. a right wing coke-topia, you can call it. only white workerscan vote. there's no public education or health care. so we saw in 2012 an amazing repudiation of conservatives across the board nationally. but on the states if you look closely, a lot of the stuff is still going on. mast where conservatives are focusing their attention. it's really moved to states like north carolina. if some of these states can be

defeated or challenged, it will be harder to export to other state states. >> if you didn't understand it before, go to north carolina and understand how you can have enough money to buy a state legislature, to buy a governor's mansion. and really that we have to fight this issue. because these folks are greedy. they own it. >> they have tried to buy a state. i appreciate you are not letting the sale go through. in north carolina on moral mondays they say forward together, not one step back. thank you to ari and judith. we are going to go one state over to tennessee to an 11-year-old who galvanized his own protest for change and won. our foot soldier is next. thank you, everybody. we went out and asked people a simple question:

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we've been talking this hour about the power of protest. notably in north carolina where a grassroots movement has thousands fighting the oppressive legislative efforts. but our foot sold they are week,

one state over in tennessee, shows that even one person's protest can affect change. 11-year-old marcel nearguard is openly gay and says he was bullied mercilessly in the fifth grade to the point where his parents took him out of school and home schooled him. but just because he left school does not mean that marcel's left his community. in fact, he was determined to change it by speaking truth to power. you see, in tennessee over the past few years state legislatures have introduced several anti-gay bills like the classroom protection act more commonly known as the don't say gay bill which was sponsored by state representative john reagan. now, this odious, homophobic bill was rejected in 2012 but reagan brought it back in an even uglier version this year. in addition to banning school teachers and staff from discussing sexual activity that is not related to, quote, natural human reproduction, reagan's bill required school officials to out students they suspected to be gay to their

parents. thankfully the legislation failed again, but despite all of this, despite his clear hostility to young gay and lesbian students, state representative reagan was selected as the 2012 reformer of the year by a nonprofit organization, students first. this is where our foot soldier marcel comes in. you see, the 11-year-old wrote an essay, he made a youtube video, and started a petition on moveon.org to get students first to rescind the award given to the state legislature. the petition went live last weekend and by wednesday it had reached 50,000 signatures. and it was the plea of that young man and the support he garnered that led students first to issue a statement that they stand with marcel and against the bigotry of the classroom protection act. students first stripped state representative reagan of his award and while marcel is happy that the honor was rescinded, he is not stopping there. after one year of being home schooled, he is returning to public school in the fall and he

is keeping up the fight. marcel told us his goal is to make sure no one else goes through the type of bullying he did, and he is calling for legislation that actually does put students first and prevents bullying instead of codifying it. for fighting homophobia, for taking a powerful bully and saying, no, sir, no, you will not be rewarded for those actions, and for being an 11-year-old who helped adults right their wrongs, marcel nearguard is our foot soldier of the week. and this is our show for today. thanks to you at home for watching. i will see you tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. eastern. we're going to break apart the myths on drugs in america and have a look at summer movies. black folks are coming to the big screen near you. now it is time for a preview of weekends with alex witt. hi, alex. >> thanks so much for that. a new book with a fascinating look at some of the twists and turns of the 2012 campaign.

the trial of george zimmerman begins monday. it's all about whose voice is heard on the 911 tapes. a live report ahead. flash flooding and torrential rains, the remnants of tropical storm andrea, up and down the east coast. in minutes a live update. plus, a fascinating new look at the founder of wikileaks and how he picked up his bombshell information from one american in the military. don't go anywhere, i'll be right back.

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>> we help you get the truth. >> a new and controversial movie about the founder of wikileaks called "we steal kretsecrets." hi, everyone. welcome to weekends with alex witt. developing now the president is meeting with the president of china in california. it's the second day of their two-day summit involving several key issues including accusations of china internet spying on american military and commercial secrets. kristin welker is traveling with the president and joins us. she's in palm springs. what do we know about this meeting that just got under way? >> reporter: well, alex, i think the president and china's president are going to be focusing on the economy, and they will also be focusing on cyber security as an extension of that. we heard from both leaders last night after they had met in a bilateral meeting and then they also had a dinner and according to president obama after last