it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. a good saturday to you, i'm richard lui in for craig melvin. here's what's happening. i pray for him that can get better and better and better, as is the best -- the best man in this country. >> nelson mandela is hospitalized for what government officials are calling a serious lung infection. we go live to south africa.

also ahead for you -- >> when it comes to those cybersecurity issues like hacking or theft, those are not issues that are unique to the u.s./china relationship, those are issues of international concern. >> president obama is meeting with the chinese president right now. how the revelation of a massive surveillance program in the u.s. could complicate questions about china's cyberspying. day three of the pretrial hearings in the george zimmerman case. jury selection just days away but the judge must first decide if voice recognition analysts can testify about a crucial 911 recording. we start today though for with you developing news coming out of south africa. nelson mandela shall the iconic south african president and the leader of the fight against apartheid is in the hospital in serious but stable condition. he is being treated for a recurrent lung infection

overnight. wefz a correspondent in johannesburg. what are you hearing now? >> reporter: a great deal of anxiety here and right across south africa. we know that nelson mandela was taken from his home here in johannesburg, to a hospital, a private medical facility, less than an hour from here in pretoria. we are told he is in a serious but stage condition and part lit anxiety is the fact that officials who were known being rather secretty about his condition, using such language, describing him as being in a serious condition. he is suffering from recurrence of a lung infection. it was the same type of lung infection that caused him ton admitted to the hospital twice in march of this year and once around christmas of last year. we know his wife was due to be addressing a summit in london today. she canceled thursday morning

when he began to become ill and since then, we are told that his condition deteriorated early this morning when he was taken here from his home but we are told that though he is serious, he is in a comfortable position and his friends say that he really is a fighter, richard. >> he certainly s thank you so much live from johannesburg for us this day. our other top story, president obama is meeting with the president of china, xi jinping, the second day of a crucial summit between the two leaders. leading the agenda, cybersecurity and u.s. concerns over a series of hacking incidents originating from china. some have reportedly infiltrated u.s. weapons systems. nbc white house correspondent kristen welker is in california traveling with the president. kristen, any word on a common ground regarding hacking policy? >> reporter: rich chaurd, good afternoon. i think what the white house is looking for out of this sum submit a recognition on the part of china's president, she gin ping that it does, in fact, bear some responsibility for some of

these cyberattacks. u.s. officials say the united states has suffered billions of dollars in intellect wall property losses due to suber hacking, that they say many relate back to the chinese government. china has been on the defense, they have consistently dees myhood having anything to do with cyberattacks in the united states and we heard some of that defensive witness last night when the two leaders spoke out. she jinping saying chain new has been the victim of cyberattacks as well. president obama acknowledged this is a broader are issue than just one that exists between the united states and china. he called for rules and common ground in moving forward to really crack down on this widespread problem. here's more of what president obama had to say last night after meeting with china's president. take a listen. >> in some ways, these are unchartered waters and you don't have the kinds of protocols that have governed military issues, for example, and harms issues, where nations have a lot of

experience in trying to negotiate what's acceptable and what's not. >> reporter: now, president obama was also pressed on whether or not the recent revelation that the u.s. government's surveillance of phone and foreign internet records really undercut his argument to china about cyberattacks. he made the point that he sees these as two separate issues. he says he does not think these are two parallel issues. that has also been at the backdrop of this summit, richard. just a note about the ven venue, where this is all being held. being held at the sunny lands resort in rancho mirage, california, a 200-acre estate built by the annenberg family and part of the reason that the white house wanted to hold the summit at that location was to foster a more candid, open dialogue between the two leaders. they will have spoken for more than six hours over the past two days that's really unusual for two world leaders to come

together for that long in that relaxed setting, they are hoping that will lay the groundwork for a better working relationship moving forward. the white house saying they are encouraged by the fact that president she jinping agreed to have the summit here and he invited president obama to a similar summit in the future. >> a warm 11 a.m. there in southern california. kristen welker, thank you so much. >> indeed. >> absolutely. >> thank you, richard. google and facebook are facial down claims the government has direct access to their servers yet power point slides accessed by the "washington post" puts into question those denials. the slides the post published showed how the nsa allegedly intercepted internet data on services controlled by nine internet companies you see there, the program called prism t monitors internet traffic in realtime, watches for suspicious e-mails, pictures and the documents and it folks on

foreign communications that often pass through u.s. servers. craig miller, national security correspondent for the "washington post" joins us now. thanks for being here. >> sure. >> the latest headline is direct access. do -- does the government have that to these internet companies? they say no, right? >> the companies have said no and i think that this is coming down to some hair splitting you of how we describe this access here. nobody is disputing that the government is getting the data that they need from these companies but the companies are disputing how direct that access is. and there's some language surfacing today that suggests that it's copies of this data that are being furnished to the government. so, it's -- you know, not exactly clear but the slides that the "washington post" obtained did indicate that this was direct access to the servers of all these firms. >> effectively t could be a box next to a box is what you're saying? >> exactly.

>> the line out of these reports, any americans' e-mails or video chats monitored through prism? >> what the u.s. government is denying, insisting does not happen, u.s. -- that u.s. citizens' e-mails and videos and so forth, none of that content, they say is being collected, except in instances, they have a basis of suspicion, going to the court for a separate warrant, that these are -- this is a program, the prism program, as it's called, that targets foreigners. >> got t so, let's move on to the other big story, also digital. phone surveillance. nsa phone sur veil against going on, that program the white house saying they are not listening, just gathering data of the call. but nbc has found that there have been accidental interceptions, according to former u.s. intelligence officials. >> yeah. that's not surprise. u.s. official, u.s. intelligence officials will always admit that there are cases where there's an inadvertent collection and the question what do they do with that? right, rich charged, the denials

here, the government emphasized that the u.s. is not listening into the con tint, not accessing the content of u.s. citizens' e-mails or phone calls but they are collecting massive amounts of meta data and meta data is the information on the location of the call the duration of the call, the number that you're calling and that reveals a great deal about our daily lives without getting into the content of our communications. >> so, who is policing this entire process? >> well, two things really. you have a special court that was set up in the 1970s to oversee wiretapping programs in the united states, design dshd built around foreign tell jones issues and then you have committees in congress and members of congress who were briefed on these programs but that's problematic. i mean, over the past several year, you have had a couple of key senators who have tried to raise concerns about this very program that was -- that surfaced this week and they are bottled up, they can't talk about it publicly. so, that oversight is really limited. >> goes back to 2007, 2008.

do we know anything about the efficacy of these secret programs? >> i think the government is -- there are indications the government is preparing to release some new information today that would indicate that some of these program helped intercept plots, including the arrest of an alleged plotter named zazi several years ago. but you know, we have also heard from senators, including senator wyden of oregon, who are publicly now saying they are not convinced of the effectiveness of these program and of their necessity. >> you were also report really, "washington post" is reporting, 1,477 items last year from the prism program, for instance, that went into the president's daily briefing and it was remarked that that's large number. the "new york times" editorial this week, lashing out though at what has been happening. the president specifically, they said this, "the administration has now lost all credibility on this issue, mr. obama is proving the truism that the executive branch will use any power this

is given and very likely abuse it." any hint that these programs will be mothballed or changed in the last 15 seconds we have here? >> no no indications. i think we are going to have a debate about it that we haven't had so far but it would an uphill climb to get significant changes because they do appear of some serious support in congress, wide, bipartisan support in congress. >> great stuff, greg miller from the "washington post." thank you. >> thank you. a big announcement, what the new york mayor says just hours ago. plus -- >> challenge today is to create a lawful system of immigration thatselves the national interest and admits those people into our country who are most likely to be successful, most likely to prosper, most likely to flourish. >> the senate debate on the immigration bill heats up this week, just as a new poll shows most importants still back the pathway to citizenship. you are watching msnbc, the place for politics. [ pizza dodging man's mouth ] ♪

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here's your political headlines on saturday. frank lautenberg was buried friday with military honers in arlingt arlington. this morning, newark new jersey's democratic mayor cory booker announcing he would be running for lautenberg's seat. he said washington needs the kind of turn around newark has gotten. >> we have raise the the quality of life, changed city, despite the cynicism of so many who believe real change here in newark was possible this is the truth of newark, i tell you right now that there is another? i america that needs some change.

a month-long debate on immigration reform began on the senate floor. some say the legislation allowses for amnesty. in his weekly address, president obama said the bill is not perfect but hoping to have it on his des bike the end of the summer. >> the bill isn't perfect. it is a compromise. nobody will get everything they want, not democrats, not republicans, not me, but it is a bill that's largely consistent with the principles i have repeatedly laid out for common sense immigration reform. >> on one side, we have seen some bipartisan camaraderie in

the senate and gangs of eight so called gangs of eight working on immigration reform. on the other side, the bill's debate got off the ground with a heavy dose of on six yesterday. here is alabama senator jeff sessions. take a listen. >> in truth, the bill is amnesty first and a promise of enforcement later. >> joining me now, lynn sweet of the "chicago sun-times," jackie kucinich of the "washington post" and reed willson at of the national journal's hot line. good to see all three of you. lynn, kick it off, is it amnesty first, as sessions is claiming here? >> absolutely not. the politics are such in the house and the senate that republicans will have to be convinced the security provisions are put in place. now there's a debate on what that means but no one who knows the politics of this believes

that the future of this bill can be rosie if they don't give assurances for security and no one really seriously is talking about the -- you know, senator called an amnesty and this context, a bit of a charged word. so no one's talking about doing that first. the both -- both paths are being pursued at the same time. >> got it. jackie, sessions consistent with this message. a loner hitting the idea of amnesty on this debate. does the bill lose a vote or two because of his statement so far? >> i don't think sessions is a linchpin here. i don't think his statements are really influencing any votes. i think there is a group of seine hours to do believe this is amnesty or political reasons going to oppose this bill. the real test for this bill is going to be in the house at the end of the day, because it seems like some senators are coming over and they will get 60, whether they get up 2070, that's the question, in order to put more pressure on house

republicans who may oppose this bill. >> let's whip this a little here, all three of us. reed, senator marco rubio, comments mixed on the bill that he helped to form here. behind the scenes this is the question, right, what is he saying to get hawks like sessions and mike lee on board? >> well, i don't think it's so much sessions and mike lee marco rubio is trying to convince, i have think it is people like dean heller and rob portman, the sort of legislating caucus of the republican conference in the senate. it is going to be fascinating to watch how some of these agriculture state senators are voting are, jerry moran and pat roberts from kansas and watch how their house colleagues vote. in a lot of cases, not going to be surprising if we see the ag state senators voting for this bill, putting pressure on their members of the house delegations in those same states and seeing a lot of those house members vote willing against because the pressures of a primary campaign at the moment i think are a lot

more sort of heated for and costly for a house member than a senator. >> good points all. lynn, we mentioned a couple of issues here, pathway to citizenship, lgbt couples, out during the discussion of the debate during the judiciary committee and when they were debating this very issue, family reunification, health care access, as mentioned earlier, which of these might, if you look at it, which of them might be tracking to possibly up end this bill? >> i think the politics are such that controversial provisions that may be dropped along the way so there is nothing that jetson jet s -- jettisons the bill. frank linger the it's ruck is the lgbt reunification. i don't know if that is the term they are using but the path to have couples united here, i think the one most at jeopardy at this stage. >> you know, jackie, we have got all these controversies we have been talking about the last

couple of weeks here, that pulse away from the messaging coming out of the white house. how might these controversies, the irs and the nsa, help or hurt the bill's momentum? >> you know, it's been helping. in a lot of ways, it helped the bill get through some of the critical stages with the committee. all the attention was off of this bill so they could just work and there wasn't -- there wasn't as much pressure. now that the focus -- now that the they are debating this on the floor, going to be a little bit, see increasing focus on this, from the public. and especially when you have bills like steve king's that passed last week in the white house, that would end with -- it would rescind the president's executive orderer for allowing dreamers to stay in the united states. so, i think there will be pieces that draw public attention and that -- i mean, it depends on which chamber we are talking about, whether that helps or hurts the bill, i guess the long and short of t >> reed are you were mentioning this a little bit earlier,

talking about the midterms coming up, 2014, latino -- not passed this year, which political party you think will be most responsible for the outcome. the 500 late team niece were polled in this, 9% said it would be the democrats' fault, 39% said it would be republicans' fault and 48% said it would be the fault of both parties together. how heavily did the 2014 midterms weigh on how these opponents of the bill are going to be making their case? >> let's not forget there are two different kinds of elections in 2014 i said earlier, a primary contest in which members of your own party, the ones you are voting and general election, immigration is still sort of a third rail like raising the retirement age would be in a democratic primary, so is

comprehensive immigration reform on the republican side a lot of people come out and sort of take that very hard line stand, including marco rubio, by the way, who was a part of this bill, a part of the gang of eight. rubio even backing away a little bit over the last week or so from his own bill. surprised me, i talked to new mexico governor susannah martinez, the daughter of immigrants herself, family emigrated to the u.s. in the last century, even she wanted a border security first measure instead of a comprehensive approach, like the one we are seeing from the gang of eight. fascinating to watch, the republicans especially, try do the -- the larger picture is immigration reform is good for the republican party but might be bad for individual members of the republican party who would then have to go back and face voters at nome a primary. >> reed, jackie, lip, thank you so much. great discussion. >> thank you. coming up, hunger around

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coming up, nelson mandela is in a south african hospital. we will have the very latest on his condition. plus, the supreme court is expected to hand down a new ruling on monday. what the court could rule on the most important civil rights law ever passed. [ male announcer ] citi is over 200 years old. in that time there've been some good days. and some difficult ones. but, through it all we've persevered, supporting some of the biggest ideas in modern history. so why should our history matter to you? because for more than two centuries, we've been helping ideas move from ambition to achievement. ♪ and the next great idea could be yours.

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storm got to new york. here is a look at other stories making the news now. nelson mandell virginia back in the hospital today. he is reportedly being treated for a serious lung infection a spokesman for the presidency says the 94-year-old is breathing on his own. police in southern california are trying to find out what made a gunman kill four people and injure five yesterday in santa monica at a community college. the gunman was shot and died at the crime scene. a texas woman in custody today in connection with the mailing of three letters containing ricin to president obama and new york city mayor michael bloomberg. the judge in the george zimmerman case is trying to determine if analysis from the

911 call on the day of the shooting should be admitted as evidence. yesterday the prosecution presented two experts. today, the defense's turn to call his own witnesses. zimmerman pled not guilty to the death of martin. he claimed self-defense. jury selection begins monday. ron mott joins us from sanford, florida. good day to you. >> reporter: as you were coming to me, they have taken a break in court. so the second of an expected three witnesses for the defense has now come -- has come off the stand by the name of george donning ton, an electrical engineer. earlier, they had a voice expert on, but george donning ton is questioning some of the science that the state's witnesses were using to say that they could not only identify a voice on that 911 call as trayvon martin but also you could hear words and make out words. this morning, one of the defense witnesses said it was absurd to make the conclusions that the state's experts made on the stand yesterday. take a listen and see what he

had to say this morning. >> my view in this case is that recording isn't even remotely syncable, comparison purposes f it had been submitted to my lab just for prosecution agency, it wouldn't have even gotten to first base. >> what the state's witnesses are saying is that you can make out, once you pull out of that 911 call, the callers a voice and the dispatcher's voice, you can then isolate some of the screams that you hear and compare those to george zimmerman's voice taken from the re-enactment that he did and compare them. basically what they did, richard is took george zimmerman's virks ran it electronically into the frequency range of the screams on the 911 call and the one expert for the state said it is clearly not george zimmerman. did he not say definitively that it is trayvon martin, said rather conclusively it was not george zimmerman.

the second state's witness, made the most declarative conclusions in the case you can not only is it trayvon martin but you could hear him saying things like i'm begging you and stop right before the gunshot is heard on that tape. and also hear a defense motion they would like the state to be banned with regards to certain words like profile, vigilante, wannabe cop. he confronted trayvon martin. they want the defense -- the defense wants the state barred from using those phrases before the judge. back to you. >> thank you, ron not on the george zimmerman trial. appreciate that a note on the story, george zimmerman has sued nbc universal, the parent company of this network for defamation. the company has strongly denied its allegations. we know we will be hearing rulings from the supreme court on not one but two days this week, one decision ex-specced

before the court's term ends in late june, a verdict on the voting rights act of 1965. the law is widely considered the most important piece of civil rights legislation ever passed by congress. according to nbc's pete williams, if the court were to strike down part of the law it would dramatically reduce the federal government's rule in overseeing voter discrimination and a wide portion of the nation. now, the court had come close to doing this in the past. joining us now is mike sacks who covers the supreme court for the "huffington post," attorney tom goldstein of scotus blog, which partnered with nbc and msnbc, kathy come ton gonzalez, senior attorney and director of voter protection for the advancement project, a human rights organization. mike, to you first, shelby county, alabama, wants this to be ruled unconstitutional and there's two parts to this. >> right. so, there is section 4 b and section 5 of the voter rights act 1965. second 5 coversthe preclearance provision all covered jurisdictions, much of the

south, those go to the federal government or permission to change the voting booth or something, anything minor. the other bit is the formula for which the federal government looks a the who needs preclearance. that is i think the one most likely to be xraut niscrutinize >> outdated? >> right it doesn't represent today's demographics i. >> arguing the law is constitutional, solicitor said thousands and thousands of changes in people's ability to vote could be made if this law is overturned. that u.s. solicitor, what was -- what was he aiming to state and what are some of those examples? >> what he is trying to do is really highlight the breadth of the court's rule, if it does say that section 5 or that part of section 4 are invalidated so that local jurisdiction, for example, one in the south that has a history of discrimination doesn't have to get preapproval for change in the voting system and really be anything, could be

something as simple as where a polling place is, moving it out of a neighborhood, for example, that is more accessible to the minority population, changing district lines, the thing about section 5 so important and makes it vulnerable it is incredibly broad in the range of voting system it is applies to. >> kathy, which states, we talk about the broadness of this which states most affected by the ruling? >> states across the south and southwest but also parts of alaska, parts of new york city because they have also had a long history of discrimination in voting. section five's formula actually was set to address that history of discrimination in voting. so, these jurisdictions even over and over again have enacted voting changes. they seem minor but since its inception it has stopped over 1500 discriminatory voting laws.

so, these jurisdictions eve

>> mike, your reporting, have you found the same ton true, based on what she said there? >> they think it is incredibly cost prohibitive for them to go to the federal government and say this is -- you want us to do what you're saying, change everything prophylactically? it costs so much. the flip side of what is going on, if section 5 or 4 b gets struck down, what remains of the voter rights ability is section 2, requires any plaintiff, allows any plaintiff, nationwide, sue anyone that is making what they say a vote-diluting or discriminatory voting practice. in doing so the states, municipalities, counties, the governments challenged will still have to spend a lot of money do a good amount of defense work to make sure that they are scot free when it comes to voting. >> that is a major economic impact, what you are talking become the legal process will

then come into play? >> yeah. ultimately, depends who is going to be paying up front, is it going to be a plaintiff who is saying this is xragt against me or the state, the federal government and prove that their practices are not discriminatory? >> kathy, have there been certain minority groups more vocal than others about protecting the law than you have heard so far? >> no advancement project is a multiracial organization and we have actually worked on behalf of african-americans and late team knows and asian-americans and i know other groups have borked extensively with the native american community. so we are all in a strong coalition together. and making sure to try to protect section 5. waiting with bated breath to see what happens with this decision and another decision coming out of arizona. and i wanted to add, these states actually could bail out of section 5 or 4 b coverage very easily. i used to work for the department of justice in the voting section. all they have to do is prove that they have not discriminated within ten years and then the

justice department bails them out, they would no longer be covered new york longer have to submit their voting changes for preclearance. on the other hand, the groups like our non-profit group would have to do section two litigation or use other legal tools certainly not going to give up, but that's very cost prohibitive for us and for the jurisdictions and for voters. these are our most fundamental rights, certainly voters of color with concerned but all americans are concerned about this assault on voting rights and why in the world the supreme court would think that the voting rights sang the no longer needed. this might be a part of it tom to you, according to purks past three presidential elections, few americans reported problems or difficulties in voting, some of the numbers that we have got coming from pew for the 2012 election, when asked did you have any problems or difficulties voting this year? 4% of whites said yes and 2% of

blacks said yes. how are the numbers affected by this law? >> i think civil rights advocates would say this is a lot more subtle than someone being excluded right at the door of the voting booth, for example. they are talking about changes in poll locations, changes in lines. but the polls do, i think, drive, in part, the supreme court majority u its fundamental point is look, it's been decades since these groups -- these jurisdictions were originally identified. congress needs to update that list because it's operating unfairly on a lot of the country that doesn't engage in that kind of discrimination. >> quickly to all three of you, tom what do you think the outcome's going to be? >> i think the statute is going to get struck down, sorry to say for civil rights advocates, this court signaled several years ago and had real concerns about the law. >> mike? >> yep. court said congress fix this three years ago, congress zupt didn't fix it court will this time strike down the preclearance provision or the formula congress uses, congress won't do anything about it and we are not going to see this come back.

>> and to you, kathy? >> we are hoping for a win. we are still hoping for a win. you never know until the courts makes its decision. as justice sotomayor said, shelby county, alabama, recently discriminated in voting, is not a good plaintiff. so we don't think this is the case that justices like justice kennedy would want to make their legacy on in order to strike down one of the most important civil rights protections in our nation's history. so we are hoping for a win, see what happens. >> kathy, mike, tom, thank you so much for your perspective today. >> thank you. flashback, george orwell's novel "1984" chronicling government surveillance marks the anniversary of its relief today as the nation learns of a real-life digital dragnet. this weekend's big idea, we profile the program feeding house to a suddens with food that would otherwise be wasted and it comes from leftover cafeteria food.

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in the abstract, you can complain about big brother and how this is a potential program run amok, but when you actually look at the details, i think we have struck the right balance. >> that was president obama yesterday defending his administration's controversial data collection efforts, as referenced there, as you heard to big brother, brings us to today's flashback. big brother, made famous by george orwell's novel "1984", the book about a government always watch willing was published 64 years ago today n 1983, just a few days before the actual year 1984, here's what nightly news had to report about orwell's predictions. >> onlily, it was called "the last man in europe," a science fiction tale by a little known english author, george orwell. just before his book was published, orwell decided to change the title, took the year he wrote it 1948 and reversed

the last four digit, 1984 with that rather casual act, he cast a pall on 1984. tonight, a look at what is as we enter 1984. >> reporter: life magazine gave it an illustrated review you total surveillance by the total state, big brother, total violation of persons, houses and effects by the all-seeing telescreen which could not be turned off n the 35 years since the book has been published in 60 languages and one movie, big brother has become a universal demon lurking in almost every new technology. >> george orwell's 1984" published on this day in 1949. fighting food waste while feeding the hungry, we talk with the group's co-founder who calls today's big idea a no brainer. r it's not a candy bar.

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fighting waste and feeding people, a win/win and today's big idea, a network of students who recover food from college dining halls to feed those in need. the students see no reason that leftover food should go to waste. it was founded in 2011 by ben simon, the food recovery network, starting at the university of maryland, college park and now reaching 21 college campuses. today, they have collectively donated 166,354 pounds of food that otherwise would have been wasted. let's bring ben simon, founder around executive director of the food recovery network, who is here with us today. boy, those are some really big numbers there. what tipped you off to this and then the idea and how you decided to move forward on it? >> absolutely. yeah. thanks a lot for having me. so i mean, you asked what tipped me off, i mean, it was really what ticked me off is, i mean, just seeing the food going to waste. and i think it's this natural, human visceral reaction to seeing good pizza, that's

basically how it started. we were at the dining hall, towards the end of the day. >> it was being thrown out >> >> getting thrown out. we asked the worker, he introduced us to the manager. >> how does this work then, the process? you see the pizza, you take it from, i guess, you're talking about the commons, right? >> right. >> and what happens? >> so we work very closely with the dining service at each of the college campuses that we're on and they basically bring out the food that was prepared that day but not sold and we have our volunteers in there usually takes place at night, we basically package it in the trays, put the top on, put it in a thermal food delivery bag and just drive it straight down to local non-profits that feed the hungry. >> how many hours does it take? concerned about freshness, right? >> absolutely. >> as well as keeping it safe to eat? >> absolutely. so, our absolute maximum is two hours, just to be 100% food safe. >> yep. >> but usually only takes about 45 minutes. you know, about 20 minutes to pack the a.m. the food, 25 minutes to drive it down, it happens really almost instantly. >> that is fast.

you could be doing all sorts of different things with that sort of efish shen cism how many people you have working for you >> food recovery network is usually one of the largest on campus service projects at each of the college campus wers on. at the university of maryland college park where i go, we have 200300 volunteers on campus, all across the country, we have got about 1,000. >> another concern of yours is methane, 25% of all methane emissions responsible, you're saying, because of wasted food, goes land, if i et cetera? >> a lot of people don't know this methane is actually one of the top -- one of the top emitters of methane is food waste, just rotting in landfill and so, the epa estimates that of all the food that goes to waste in america, which is 70 billion pounds of food every year. >> 70 billion? >> 70 billion funds to. >> if you captured was -- captured 15%, yields 25 million people getting fed, right? one of the numbers out there. >> that would cut hunger in harl. >> pope francis kind of

liningened this idea. >> an al life. >> consumerism has accustomed us to waste but throwing food away is like stealing it from the poor. >> steal willing from the poor. >> from the poor and the hungry there. you tack on to that the fact that you estimate over 75%, as you were saying there of the food in the united states does not have a food recovery program, right? >> 75% of college campuses. >> campuses don't have to a food recovery program. >> 97% is the stat i was getting to, 97% of that 70 billion stood going to landfill and incinerat incinerator, landfills, releasing the methane gas. >> how are you getting all the colleges? >> spreading quickly, got a huge investment from set deck sew foundation, support from others such as meade family foundation, we are basically hiring full-time staff. it's just a dream come true, we are settle nothing an office space at university maryland college park and bringing on, creating five jobs, an amazing thing. >> the man with the green t-shirt that says food recovery network, fighting waste, feeding people, thank you so much, ben simon. >> thanks so much for having me

h. >> you bet. have a good day. coming up, whipping at all costs, 20 of baseball's best players face allegations of steroid use. the largest on what would be the largest drug case in u.s. sports history. see what are being called the most important comeovers in congress. we have got the pictures. you hurt my feelings, todd.

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we constantly monitor the web so if any of your personal information is misused, we're on it. ♪ ow. [ male announcer ] call 1-800-lifelock or go to lifelock.com today. good after near, i'm richard lui in for craig melvin. you are watching msnbc, the place for politics. here's what's happening. >> he's fight. he has recovered many times from very serious conditions and he will be with us. >> right now, nelson mandela is hospitalized, government officials saying he has a serious lung infection. we have a live report from south africa shortly and talk with new york congressman charlie rangel about his special relationship with the civil rights hero. also ahead for you -- >> you can't have 100% security and also then have 100% privacy

and zero inconvenience. >> a massive invasion of privacy or keeping americans safe? the president addresses revelations -- or rel vations of a massive surveillance program while he meets face to face with the chinese president in california today. right now, a hearing just wrapping up in the george zimmerman case. the judge faces a crucial decision days before the trial begins. nelson mandela rushed to the hospital overnight when his lung infection deteriorated. row hip catch rue is live. any update at this hour? >> reporter: no update in the last few hours, a great deal of anxiety here in johannesberg, an hour from here. nelson mandela thought to be treated today.

nelson mandela considered to be the father of this angst, many people concerned about his condition. we know he was returned here from his home in johannesburg 1:30 a.m. south african time to the hospital. add recurrence of a lung infection, the same infection that led him to be hospitalized twice in march and again before christmas last year. she was supposed to be in london for a speech but she canceled on thursday when he became ill he has 24-hour here at his home but clearly, doctors felt he would be better cared for by being transferred to a hospital. he was taken to a private medical facility in pretoria very early this morning, no update so far today, but clearly, the language very serious, he is described as being in a serious but stable

conditio condition. >> what do we expect in the coming days based on his medical condition, any understanding when he might be released, perhaps? >> reporter: everyone here is hoping he will be leased within the next few days but the government here are being inkblid secretive, they say they are doing that to try to protect the privacy of nelson mandela and his family swim, during previous hospitalizations, there was a very small amount of information and he was eventually released each time after a few days, a week or so this time, everyone clearly hoping for the same thing, one of nelson mandela's closest trends in the last hour said that mediba, to use his tribe name is, a fight and everyone is playing for him.

i kay -- i sat down excuse swivel james clapper, the man in charge of all 16 u.s. intelligence agencies, including nsa and cia. we talked about the charges that the agencies are invading people's privacy and the affect of all this on national security from his perspective. >> we are very, very concerned about it. it is gut-wrenching to see this happen. because of the huge, grave damage it does to our intelligence capabilities. of course, for me, this is a key

tool for a preserving, protect the nation's safety and security. every one of us in the intelligence community you most particularly the great men and women of nsa, are very -- profoundly affected by this. >> how has it hurt american intelligence? >> while having this debate, this discussion, all this media explosion, which, of course, supports transparency, sway gre -- which is a great thing in this country, that is a double sword. and our adversarieadversaries, they bin fit, as we speak, they are going to school and learning how we do this. so, that's why it potentially has -- can render great damage to our intelligence capabilities. >> at the same time, when

americans woken up and learned because of these leaks that every single telephone call made in the united states, as well as elsewhere, but every call made by these telephone companies that they collect is archived, the numbers, just the numbers and the duration of these calls, people were astounded by that. they had no idea. they felt invaded. >> i understand that but first, let me say that i and everyone in the intelligence community, also citizens who also care very deeply about our privacy and civil liberties, i certainly do let me say that at the outset, i think a lot of what people are reading and seeing in the media is hype per bowly. >> clapper says the national security agency filed a crime report asking the justice department for a criminal investigation into the leaks. clapper gave us examples of terror plots he says were averted because of these

intelligence program. i will have a lot more of our conversation on sunday today and sunday nightly news as well as on our msnbc shows and mon at 1:00 on andrea mitchell reports. and of course, online. richard? >> andrea, can we expect congressional calls here to limit these intelligence gathering programs in the future, based on what you have learned? >> already hearing from congress, even from the intelligence community -- committees and even from supporters. dianne feinstein, went to the intelligence korngt the fisa court, and asked the fisa court report more frequently or at all on what it is doing, back when they were reauthorizing this in december. the court refused. clapper said she has now asked him to report in a month on ways they could narrow the scope of what they are vacuuming up without hurting national security. >> with that exclusive interview with james claerp, thank you so much andrea mitchell, nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent. thank you. bring in new york congressman charlie rangel here

with us. you just heard what james clapper told exclusively to andrea mitchell. what's your action. he used the word hyperbole, do you believe it is hyperbole? >> no question. they have used everything they could think of for programs in terms of investigation and the fact that there's scandals. always has been hist tore clay close line to have to make decisions between national securities and the freedom of the press. quite frankly, i don't think anyone was disturbed, the president made it clear, and i don't know that he has, that we have to do these things and it was cleared through the congressional intel jens committee to accumulate this information, not to listen in, but to accumulate this information because that is the best way for us to deter rearist plots, now, if there's some report they're wants to get a

pulitz pulitzer prize, i don't know. >> you heard what andrea asked james clapper and that is about americans' perspectives and responses to this report that they feel they were being investigate. how would you respond to that? >> depends how the question framed. no one want theirs privacy interrupted by anybody, not their father and mothers, strangers, certainly not big brother, the government, but the question was framed, do you have any objections that the federal government will keep a log of the telephone calls that you and all americans have made in order to assure that we are doing all that we can to stop terrorist attacks against this beloved country, everybody would say you count me in. i don't like the idea, but i don't like the idea of terrorists, i don't like the ideas of intruding into america

and killing people and destroying our symbols. >> on the issue of congressional calls to make a change here to do something, how will you respond to efforts that might be made here? >> i was trying to make efforts when we had the patriot act and presidents, republican and democrats have always asked for the authority with oversight by the intelligence committee. i heard carefully that the president has said that the house intelligence committee, which is controlled by republicans, was fully aware of this operation. as a matter of fact, i'm pretty certain that the chairman of that committee has already said he supported the president in what he was doing. so, they have a balance, i really don't like overreach in terms of the privacy of americans. >> you're on board with this, on board this though. >> i'm on board with this because this president has demonstrated a success in terms of war against al qaeda. i mean, he's got bin laden, retracting the troops from these

areas i don't like the idea of how we don't have a draft. i don't like the idea of how presidents, republican and democrats, just put our troops in harm's way without the constitutional authority. this president is unwinding. he is with drawing and very fortunate, god blessing, with his administration, in terms of not being attacked. >> you heard the director of national intelligence saying that, hey, somewhat embarrassed about this, not liking what is happening right now. what's your sense of the dni, the director of national intelligence and how do you react to his discomfort with the way things have happened and your confidence in the dni and what he has done so far in this case? >> when people see the tools that you have that are supposed to be secret and they are over the front page of every paper internationally, i don't blame them for feeling awkward around embarrassed. >> you have confidence in the dni? >> i do. but then again what choices do i have?

what choices do americans have you bet your life. i have confidence in the president of the united states and his administration against al qaeda. and certainly, if you're going to put that up against this isolated case with -- which involves a reporter, we have to take a look at this to make certain that this was warranted. but to be excited about this and to attack the president, you know, we should attack the people that are attacking us, not the president of the united states. >> i want to play sound from the president, take a listen. this is what he said regarding this issue. >> now, the programs that have been discussed over the last couple of days in the press are secret in the sense that they are classified, but they are not secret in the sense that when it comes to telephone calls, every member of congress has been briefed on this program. >> were you briefed on this and when were you briefed on it? >> i don't know whether i was

personally briefed on it. they do have these briefings. i try not to attend because i don't want to know a secret that's gonna show up in the "new york times" the next morning, but i tell you this, i did hear the republican chairman of the intelligence committee say on national television that he knew about it and if the congress knew about it, then we may have to review the procedures. >> you voted against it in 2007, not briefed on this since then is what your sea saying? >> no i haven'ted. the fact i voted against the law doesn't mean the enforcement of this section of the law. i thought it was overreaching. but at a time that america's being threatened, i'm not going to micromanage the security of the united states based on my emotional and political beliefs. and you have to have some confidence in this president. quite frankly, if it was a different president, i might take a different look at the legislation. >> very quickly, i do want to

shift gears. we talked about this last hour you have a special relationship with nelson mandela. tell us about that. >> he is god's gift to humankind. whenever we really think that there's a terrible meanness in the world and they present to you a man that's been in jail for 27 years and he comes out, without bitterness, and welcomes the minority of his country to share the leadership with him. instead of having the confrontations, unfortunately, that humankind has had on this planet, he brings people together that have murdered or destroyed him and his families, i think that -- >> there you are with him. >> all prayers have to be for nelson mandela. he is god's gift to the world. it shows what we can do in following his role. >> so many froengs rooting for him. i know this coming week is your birth day. got a small little something for you.

happy birthday, congressman. going to be 63? >> no, i hope you got 83 of these. >> 83? we couldn't fit it on the desk. >> thank you. >> but happy birthday. >> i really appreciate this >> >> congressman rangel, thank you so much. have a good week ahead. >> all right. president obama and china's president, xi jinping are concluding their two-day meeting in palm springs today. hint agenda there is cybersecurity. the summit the president took a diplomatic tone. >> bring in foreign policy fellow at the brookins

institution. let's start with this one. how important is it for the two leaders to discuss the cybersecurity issues face to face and perhaps come to some middle ground? >> i do think it's incredibly important. as the president noted, these are unchartered waters, we do have regular discussions about military matters and foreign trade matters but these issues of cybersecurity new and there's been very little dialogue between the two nations formally. >> you co-authored a report for the brookings institution, writing that the government is spending too much time aplaying cold water metaphors to cyber c cybersecurit cybersecurity. how serious is the threat from non-state cybercriminals?

>> a significant threat. let's remember that non-state cybercriminals can cooperate with governments. what we are often seeing in these attacks and these thefts attributed to the chinese government, working through third parties and cutouts with sort of unaffiliated groups. >> the u.s. criticizes china, developing cyberattack strategies that we have been discussion. you have written about some of those programs. what can you tell us about its u.s. cyberstrategy in dealing with this? >> look, the fact of the matter is they tried to steal our secrets, we try to steal their secrets. we are probably just a little slick tatter so we haven't been caught as often. that's why you're not seeing quite the uproar in china, the chinese government made a lot of objection what is they see as u.s. inviews it is happening in both directions. >> what's going to happen from these discussions? is china likely to cut back on its cyberactivities without expecting -- is getting something from the united states

in return here? >> that doesn't sound like any negotiation i have ever been part of. >> how do you see this turning out then? >> at least got to be the sort of equivalent of a red phone, got to be an ongoing dialogue about what's going on. i think there can be some cooperation on common threats, common crime threats, child pornography, things of that nature. >> noah, thank you so much from the brookings institution and the danger room. searching for motive in a deadly california shooting spree. the suspect is dead leaving police scouring nine crime scenes looking for clues. also ahead -- >> in the year 2001, 2002, 2003, i experimented with a banned substance that eventually triggered a positive test. i stopped taking it in 2003 and haven't taken it since. >> that was alex rodriguez back in 2009 and now the league is reportedly investigating the mvp and almost 320 other high-profile players accused of using steroids.

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you know what i worry about? i worry about baseball being affected, as a game pushing the whole thing. and what it's been through in the last 15 years. and that's my concern. but i always worry about my players. always. >> that was new york yankees coach joe girardi reacting to report out this week that could derail the careers of one of his most prominent players. this week, espn reporting that major league baseball was going to look into suspending as many as 20 major and minor league baseball players based on their connections to the biogen cis lab, a miami clinic that was rumored to have supplied performance-enhancing drugs to a group of professional athletes. al lengths rodriguez of the new york yankees and ryan braun of

the new york brewers are some of the big names who might allegedly be on this hot seat and the league could try to suspend them for 100 games. joining me now is a sports writer at the nation and steve ol nick, a sports attorney as well. dave, why is this clinic we are talking about here, biogen circumstance cooperating with mlb with major league baseball right now? what's in it for them? >> they are being squeezed left and right. major league baseball was involved in a lawsuit against anthony tony bosch and the biogen cis clinic because they said the clinic interfered the contracts of major league baseball players by supplying maybe two, three baseball players with performance-enhancing drugs. by many press accounts, anthony bosch is nearing bankruptcy, if he is not there already. the price of defending himself against major league baseball is something he could not afford. similarly, the u.s. attorney's office in southern florida has opened up an investigation of

tony bosch and major league baseball has said that they are willing to use their influence, and they have said this publicly, with the u.s. attorney's office to get them off the back of tony bosch as well. so there are frank lay lot of things that make him a witness that's to put it mild lakers little bit problematic. >> scott, it appears on based on what we have been hearing at the moment that some play course face, what, 100-game suspensions without taking a drug test. how is that going to work out? >> well, yeah, i mean, a lot of these guys potentially, they are going to be suspended for 100 games and going to have to forego the money also. so then your going to have to go through the whole appeals process, once again that takes time and as you can see, a lot of these guys, i mean, they are paid large sum of money, such as a-rod and ryan braun, nelson cruz. >> by the way, you're not scott, you're steve, but -- thanks for answering any watch scott was going to be here but he decided not to be here, steve, thanks for not bringing that to tens n

attention. but i did. perhaps there should be a legalized way for ball players to use performance enhancing drugs within a framework,st what you described, governed by the mlb. and you write, "that this solution won't please the purists who reverse a game that never exists. it won't please the anti-steroid furies who think that the behavior of children are determined in patch loafian fashion by the actions of major league baseball player bus it's time to stop the madness and decriminalize the game." would fans accept this? don't they care about this? >> it's interesting, they seem to accept it in basketball. they seem to accept it in football where there's really next to no either fan outrage or even an intensive drug testing policy in either of those sports. it will have baseball that's developed this intense atmosphere around performance-enhancing drugs. frankly, do you polling of fans,

not as big an issue as purists would like to believe. it is not decriminalization and legalization, my point is the system is broken. if it wasn't broke reason, the two or three dozen players kinged to the biogen cis clinic would have come up dirty on a drug test but they did not, which said the incent advisization to cheat is very intense and the ability and breadth of ability to beat the test is also very intense. >> you think it should be a health issue end stead? >> it should become a public health issue because any doctor will tell that you there are dangers obviously with performance-enhancing drugs and steroids, the danger is abuse and not use, the danger when they are not done under the auspices of a doctor, the danger when taking with masking agents to beat test he is so there's got to be a way to make it more safe and more say for the professional last leets, many of whom take these honestly for training and healing, not so much to aid their contracts and statistics. >> steve, talk about some of the ideas that were brought up there by dave, you know, he sort of

hinting toward nfl contracts, you know, mlb contracts are fully guaranteed, nfl contracts are not. should some requirements be put into effect here? would that help here? >> 100%. if you actually strengthen and have a lot of the -- in terms of tightening the actual restrictions around a lot of these contracts a lot of these guys wouldn't do it. right now, yeah, if you cheat but you still get that $100 million contract, you're still gonna get paid. so you have to do something. because if you don't, it's just going to be ongoing consistently, every single year. >> go ahead, you were going to say something there. >> steve makes a very, very good point because you look at a player who turned up here, like melky cabrera, for example. melky cabrera has got an second lease on baseball life that's been farm suitically aided. he just signed a two-year $60 million contract after the being suspended for 50 games last year around missing the san francisco giants in the playoffs and the

world series, not being with his team. only after that got a two-year $60 million contract from the blue jays. the message, like i said before, crime pace, incentivized so greatly to actually use because the gap between playing in the minor leagues and from a salary perspective is the difference between making $1,000 a month and $100,000 a week. up next, a bad hair day donald trump's hair maybe the most famous combover, show you what are the most important combovers of congress. you watching msnbc a lot of people think fiber can do one thing and one thing only... and those people are what i like to call... wrong. take metamucil. sure it helps keep you regular but it doesn't stop there. metamucil has psyllium, which helps lower cholesterol, promotes digestive health,

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most important combovers of congress, their words but just tell you about the top three. we begin with this do from massachusetts congressman, ed marquee, which buzz feed describes as wavy and illustrious. number two michigan senator carl levin, a according to buzz feed, sports a full court press and the top goes to ohio congressman steve shabbat using you the round the world tech evening in, popularized by the king of combover, donald trump. all the way around the head according to what buzz feed is saying there. not everybody is happy. for instance, congressman pole his saying surprised, not flattered to find out i'm on the list of 23 most important combovers and followers saying it was a bit of a stretch to put him on that list a little bit on the political playground for you. the president's second term over? the impact of a string of controversies on the public's

perception of president obama. you are watching msnbc, the place for politics. you know throughout history, folks have suffered from frequent heartburn. but getting heartburn and then treating day after day is a thing of the past. block the acid with prilosec otc, and don't get heartburn in the first place. [ male announcer ] one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn.

i'm a richard lui, a quick luke at stories making news now. a story we have been following all afternoon, nelson mandela back in the hospital. the fourth time in los angeles than a year that the 94-year-old has been hospitalized. his condition is being described as serious but stage. police in southern california are looking for a motive this morning, figure out what made a gunman kill four people and injure five others yesterday at a community college in santa monica. the alleged gunman was shot and he died at the crime scene there. pretrial hearing its in the george zimmerman case just finished for the day. a florida judge listening to testimony for two voice and audio experts called by the defense team but a third witness was unable to testify because he got stranded at a airport. he will be called back next week for that the judge had been expected to decide today whether voice analysis from a 911 call from the day of the shooting

could be admissible at trial. george zimmerman has pleaded not guilty to the shooting death of trayvon martin, claiming self-defense. the trial set to resume on monday with jury selection. the latest rel vations about government surveillance programs are emerging the president in yet another round of controversy. all-star team here. perry, starting with you, you wrote a few days ago the president was still holding onto his popularity. you said here that this is good news for obama who has found himself under siege from not only republicans but the press and even fellow democrats over allegations that the department of justice improperly seized the phone records of journalists from ate associated press and fox news and the internal

revenue service, targeted conservative tea party groups for closer scrutiny. perry, how do you think the new electronic surveillance disclosures, we look at them and learn more about them will affect the president's standing with people, with voters? >> i think two questions, how is it standing with voters and probably not very much. his approval rating you 48% right now. it was 47% a couple months ago, stayed pretty steady among things like the ap phone records, which as a journalist, i'm very concerned about. voters tend not to look at the issue the same way we in the press or people in congress do as well. that might be the case again with the phone records from verizon and facebook and google in terms of surveillance programs. i don't think the voters will be as outraged as the press and members of congress r it happened two days ago, haven't had polls since then. my suspicion is voters will not

be as outraged as you think they could be. matt, look forward to 2014 may be too early to do that, will this affect democrats who might be going up for re-election? as you look at this tough decision for the government balancing again individual rights, what the government has to do? >> regardless of all the scandals that happened in the last month or so, two months, no matter what happens, second term presidents always get wiped out in their midterm elections. the only last 13 second-term presidents the only one who didn't lose seats is bill clinton and because republicans overreached for the whole impeachment things. party switched congress. >> happiness anyway? >> always happens anyway. we have the a daily stunning revelation, the irs won and in particular, these this week, hits people where they live, everyone deals with the irs. i have a verizon account.

so it affect ounce a visceral level. >> facebook, apple, all these brands and names all used to dealing with? >> i would presume this is not going to help president. always more popular than his policies from the beginning. this remains true. going to be a weaker politician going forward. lame duck earlier? >> yes. >> how does the president's support of the program affect his base, those that consistently support him, as matt was alluding to here? >> there was a poll that came out a couple years ago in the "washington post" that showed, you know, in the light of september 11th, certainly now after the boston bombings, americans actually kind of, you know, have a collective sigh about the fact that we have really intense surveillance policies that we are using to combat terrorism. i think host americans realize, like the president said, we can't be 100% safe and have 100% convenience at the same time. i don't really think that that -- i agree with that perry, i don't think that is really going to hurt the president in

terms of his base. in terms of his. with the american voters. >> will that ever change? >> in 2007 and 2008, there is a popular politics available in this country for people who stand up and say i reject the false balance between security and lint. we have a constitution for a reason. we have gone bonkers since september 11th, there was a popular poll tinges for that back then. i think a popular politics going forward, but not led by this president because he has changed his attitude. >> the campaign for 2016 coming up, the democratic side and the republican side, i think there will be a more robust discussion going forward, not about obama but the next presidential candidates, how they would even -- do they support the kind of broad security state that we

created under bush and obama? hillary clinton support? we know rand paul doesn't already a debate going forward. not one now. >> good points there. also, perry, stay with me, some members of congress have been disputing president obama's assertions that congress was fully read in on the data of the operations. political friday reporting, on instance, its conversations with senate majority whip, dick durbin, saying committees had access to information about the program bus the average member of congress likely wouldn't have been aware of the breadth of the telephone and internet surveillance programs. we were talking with congressman charlie rangel a moment ago, he was saying that he had not heard about this program at all. is the president's credibility on the line based on he saying that and members of congress saying no we are not privy of this. >> there's two problem with the argument. the first is that being briefed

about something by the nsa or by doj and reading about it on the front page "the new york times" are very different thresholds of dodge. i expect members of congress are wary about these briefing ares asking direct questions. "the new york times" an objective source on this thing versus the doj wants to show these programs are more limited. a lot of new members from congress not voted on these things, 2010 and 2012, departy republicans if the patriot came today, i think they would oppose it not sure the congress of today approved the big brother programs in their mind that the president says they have. >> brain trustees, stand by. we are going to go for a quick break. up next, president obama meeting the chinese president face to face for the first time and they pledged a new model of cooperation after decades of diplomatic ups and downs. you are watching msnbc. ♪ [ agent smith ] i've found software that intrigues me.

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brain trust, aisha moody mills from the center for american progress, perry bacon jr. as well as matt welsh, aisha, leading off with you, let's move the issue here of china. can the u.s. afford here, with can they afford to taken a adversary y'all approach to china here? >> i don't think any intention to taken a adversarial approach to china. we should think about the fact there is a huge ethical difference in the way we view a variety of issues, be they human rights issues, be they cybersecurity. i think the tone appropriate to take with china is one that kind of backs up and says, all right, look, we know that we have differences on what we think intellectual property is and how we manage our intellectual property rights. and so, let's have a conversation that's constructive about that as opposed to get down into the finger pointing of, well, you're stealing from us, we're stealing from you. let's talk about how we can find some common ground on the rules, international rules that you

will govern intellectual property in general. i think we should be more diplomatic. >> world's two biggs economies. per ray new gallup poll found 55% of americans consider china as a friend or ally but a recent pew poll finding a different result here. it showed that 52% of americans van unfavorable view of china. you look at these numbers here, perry. do the conflicting results show that americans may not know as much about china as they might be able to? >> i think we generally know americans know very little about foreign policies, what most polls show, probably goes beyond china to other nations as well. interesting part of this summit, particularly the president's having, we generally think the president, like matt said earlier, not going to have a loft influence in terms of moving things in congress in the second term but i think he can do things on foreign policy, he's a lot of free rein there.

a lot with the chinese in terms of signer sicyberwarfare, if th make advances there a big thing for the president. >> talk about xi jinping coming to the united states, chose california as opposed to the east coast, the east coast where all the population is, obviously, washington, d.c. and new york what do you make of that, is there an udity opportunity for china to improve based on americans' perceptions of chinese? >> one would hope so i don't see it is a huge political discussion anymore. some in the 2012 election, the republican side, a bit of sort of china baiting. obama has been more of a china basher on the stump than a lot of democrats have been in a generation. among the american public at large, you don't hear a lot of talk of red china anymore. people aren't as obsessed with the country. think more in terms of this is where my apple gets made and i

feel kind of queasy about the relationship that they have with their workers so i'm not sure this is on the front burner of anyone's sense of foreign policy. i think we are all more concerned with terrorism, global economic slump than we are with a lot of these issues actually in discussions with the chinese. >> matt, aisha, perry, stand by the brain trust returns in a bit with this week's biggest brain. we will tell you who has it. ♪ ♪ wonder if i gave an oreo ♪ to somebody out there who i didn't know ♪ ♪ would they laugh after i'd gone? ♪

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. and now as promised we're going let one of our regular brain trust guests have a moment. it's time to find out who is the biggest brain amongst or brain trust. you guys ready for this? >> yeah. >> aisha mills. >> nice. >> today she has been crowned the biggest brain. these other two guys also on the screen really smart but today aisha you get the crown. tell us what's on your brain rchl this week the senate armed services committee held its first hearing in a deck kate to address the military sexual

assault kriefgs. assault in the military climbed by 34% between 2010 and 2012 and shockingly only 23% of this results were prosecuted yesterday. opponents have tried to downplay the issue. so let me set the record straight here. military sexual assault is not a woman's issue. more than half -- 53% of victims of sexual assault in the military are men. and, no, it's not gay men who are the problem. all of the data show that repeeling don't ask don't tell has not contributed to the increase in sexual assaults committed against men. and lately opponents suggest that women serving in combat should expect to be sexually assaulted by their brothers in arms by some twisted right of passage. it's time to start blaming the

victims. the brai men and women who serve this country deserve much better. >> all right. aisha thank you so much for that. perry your response first here. one of the key points she brought up were man that half, 53% of victims of sexual say salt in military men >> i did not know that. it was a very interesting to hear everything she said. one thing i want to note it's not a woman's issue. that this shows an adversity of in congress. you see the people who are really demanding the issue and demanding change from the pentagon, it's the female senators. they are holding up the military and really bringing new voice to an important part of this process. >> matt, response. he's the biggest brain today. >> it's a crisis that needs to

be addressed forth rightly. i mean the long arc of sexual assault in this country thankfully is that it has been going down over the last three decades thanks in part to a lot of awareness an criminal justice reform. >> where do you expect this to go? >> i am so thankful that senator kirs ten jill brand has been on the horn about this. we're not sure what. we no that the air force has appointed a woman to head up the investigations on sexual assault. the fact that only 3% of the reported cases were prosecuted last year is also a huge part of the problem. there's really no accountability structure in place around sexual assault and i think that's going to change. >> so perry as was mentioned there are several prominent women senators a that are pushing some action on this, lawmakers pushing action on this. why don't we see more prominent male lawmakers also getting on

board with this. >> there are male lawmakers. don't mean to isolate the issue that way. the leading voices on the issue -- in general there is some accept tense in general from the male. obviously there's more to accept kind of the military says it should be done this way, justice should be this way. the decision of who to procute and how is the chain of kmant command on a current law, she's trying to make sure that the jag offices are in charge of prosecuting. it's a change where the i think the female senators have a little more credibility to say we want to break out what the pentagon has been doing in the past. >> one thing it shows is correct me if i'm wrong nal hearings are good things. you can air things out that need tore discussed, popularize issues that everyone doesn't know about. >> thank you very having the

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wrong in the society. >> equal pay for equal work, first thing he did. >> they don't want the decisions made in washington. >> your science is wrong about your facts are wrong. >> it sets in place the possibility for these types of things to occur. ♪ i just want to be okay, be okay, be okay, i just want to be okay today ♪ >> my mother always told me people do and say stupid things when they're scared and that's about the best reason i can come up with explain how it is that the conservative war on women did note actually end on november 6, 2012. not only are we women so powerful that we can quote shut the whole thing down if we get pregnant from a legitimate rape, we're also responsible for the demise of the american society. that was the decision that a number of conservative men

discovered. the woman sl the primary or sole breadwinner. then we heard that not only can rape be legitimate or not. when it happens in the military some thing it's hormones and drinking. what conservatives still don't understand that is across our country women and some men not only feel and erosion of respect an personal likt with this kind of conversation but a description of america that is just ignorant of the reality of how we're living our lives in 2013. if they just pull the covers from over their frightened eyes they would recognize women have been working out the home for the past decades. it's actually been the women's salary that's helped hold the family together in most cases. when you kus educational programs like head start, you're cutting programs that help men

and women be more proactive parents. how about when you restrict a woman's access to her legal right to abortion care you are leaving her at the mercy of a murderous monster. or that when when you put women in a box, you put men in a box too, men who want to balance work an family, to nurture their family not because they're submissive but because as president obama pointed out time and again it's part of being a good father and being a good husband. with me now my very first guest on my show is democrat senator from california, barbara boxer. so great to have you with me. thanks for you time this afternoon. >> i'm so excited to be our very first guest among many, many to follow. >> we're going to talk a little about the never ending war on women in a moment. i just want to start because

obviously there was a horrible shooting event yesterday in sant monica california. get your thoughts on that. do you think this will reinvigorate the conversation about gun regulations. >> let me start out by saying i send my love and support to those who wur sufrg as a result of this. honestly i don't know where we're headed. if we didn't do the right thing after the last unbelievable slaughter of the innocent children in sandy hook, i worry about it. however we never give up, never give up hope. and i know the families all across the country and thousands since sandy hook are not going to give up. if this continues to be abissue and senator reid says this isn't going away. every single think this happens i think it does give us wind at our back and we're not going to forget about it. >> one of the things it seems

that women have been part of the driving force behind the korgs, men too but you really had women getting out there. women like yourself are part of really driving the conversation in the senate and taking action on military sexual assault. i know you were instrument tall in those horrible tail hook scandals some time ago. >> yes. >> were you surprised from what you heard from the testimony this week from some of the men? >> i was not surprised. i unfortunately was not surprised. i wanted to be surprised. i wanted them to own this. i wanted them to say, you know, we've looked at our friends in canada, australia, united kingd kingdom. we know they took all of these very difficult cases of felony assaults outside the chain of command. it's working. by the way it is working in

those countries. we should move forward. they didn't do that. they're fighting for the status quo. and they keep saying it's about discipline. well they failed on this. >> yeah. >> tail hook was when i was in the house in the 1980s. and i remember thinking to myself, this will never happen again and and it happens over and even. just now today i learned of yet another case where a two-star general was removed from his position because he didn't investigate a sexual assault case. i don't know all the details. it goes on and on and on sfl. >> right. >> if the military is about discipline, there is no discipline when you've got thousands of these felons walking around, which is what you have because there's 26,000 cases of sexual harassment, sexual assault and only a fraction of those, 10% get reported. >> i couldn't help thinking looking at the image of the

women senators sitting there asking these questions. it did feel like a positive because obviously when we had anita hill testifying it was row of men and frankly they were not asking the right questions. and i felt like this time we had the right people asking the right questions. and particularly i was so glad to see senator ma kas kill instead of todd akin. >> of course. this last election was great. i predicted it would be the year of the women. i did it on msnbc. for me to sit there and see the committee with so many clel lent women who are articulate and dedicated, they won't let this be swept under the rug. we're going to have a struggle ahead to get this out of the chain of command. there's no reason for people to say it won't work. it works. we know it works. >> thank you so much for your

time here today senator boxer and thanks for being my first guess. >> i'm very excited. >> i'm joined by two of my favorite women, shanna williams and april ryan is the white house correspondent and p thanks so much for joining me. >> thanks for having us and congratulations on the show. >> thanks so much. so i want to start with you, shanna, because again listening to the level of conversation this week i was disgusted and surprised that it seems like the gop has not gotten the memo that at least don't talk about some of these things if you can't say it better, just withhold. >> yeah, no they clearly haven't gotten the message. obviously we at ultraviolet are our members are totally upset about the rhetoric coming out of the republican party. i tell you what they're more

upset about are the palsies. the policies like rejecting the violence again women right, opposing an equal pay bill getting in the way of gun violence reform which impacts women very seriously. >> you know, april, the other thing that struck me with some of the criticism that we saw sean some of the commentary that we saw from the pugh study that i mentioned earlier was the default always seems to be to blame women, right? it is women's fault rather than looking at a, what's the responsibility of men and fathers. but b, some of these very same people have proposed and support cuts to the very programs that actually help women and mothers, and particularly single mothers which i know you know something about. >> yes, i am a single mother and proud of it. unfortunately things did not work out in a marriage. you have a lot of people in my boat, the largest number in that study are single mothers. but the problem is that when you

have kids when you are the head of the house hold, you need wic, you need the school programs to feed your children. a lot of times you want to see your child progress into college. they're cutting pel grants. those are the programs on the chopping block. you have to remember that the republican party seems to be behind the curb on women, behind the curb on the black community. it's time in 2013 to keep the traditional ways but change them so they can conform to today. >> i think we have to recognize, and shaun that i know you're working on this, i mean there really v has been a change in the roles of men and women. you see more men staying at home, taking care of their kids. and that is the new reality, right, in 2013? it's not the sort of bizarre

thing. i'm curious to hear what you're hearing about what's being reflected in terms of the level of conversation we're hearing from here when women are being criticized for working outside of the home and that's not the experience of the women you're working with. >> no, it isn't. the reaction to that pugh study saying more than 40% of woman were r are breadwinner in their family is outrageous. men and women have had to work outside the home for decade. when we ask our members and we know that because we polled 450,000 members. what are the issues you case art most? the issue they say all the time is pay equity. the gop is not going themselves any favors when they oppose an equal pay bill next week. >> monday is the 50th anniversary of equal pay. >> so not only is this impacting

women directly, i mean they're clearly suffering because they're not making the same amount or money for the same amount of work. entire families are suffering because the gop is refusing to hold corporations accountable and they clearly don't think this women deserve to make the same amount of money as men. >> this was the other thing that really struck me about the' action, april, is that it really does put men back in this box that says you're supposed to be the sole provider ap as we know because of the last few years because you had both people working that a lot of families were able to not slip into poverty. men care about the work life balance. it's very important to them. they want to be able to spend time with their families. they want to be able to make sure they're balancing the same things that women are concerned about balancing. i feel like we don't talk about that enough. >> that's true. i mean in a perfect world, you know, would have the standard traditional 1950s june cleaver

and husband family nair yo but times are changing. when we talk about times changing you see a lot more men take their kids to the park and to the movies while the mom is at home. that's a great trade off if the man is not able to find work or doesn't want to work and the mother is working, that's a great trade off. we seem to see the trend where more women are in the classroom learning. women -- are becoming more the breadwinners than men from in their home a lot of it has to do with education. men are not going back to school for the education more as much as women are. >> we cannot roll back the clock and sort of put women back in this box, put men back in a box an keep blaming women pep i'm tired of them blaming women for

everything and thane then they cut our programs. i'm tired of that. thanks for you time today. up next, the play. you're watching disrupt on msnbc. a and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

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mother nature's cool like that. citibank mobile check deposit. easier banking. standard at citibank. . >> welcome back. we're going to talk about the political play of the week. politics is supposed to be about getting things done, advancing a cause or an issue through a set of moves. it's a lit bit of checkers in the short term, chess in the longer term, defense, offense and like a game there is usually one play that's made by one side or the other that really sets the tone or disrupts the state of existing play. this week obama's team attempted

to disrupt. they wanted to start on offense in june and they did so with his weekly you tube address. >> congress needs to step up and do its part. >> with win third of house committees conducting hearings and investigations, president obama reminded lawmakers not to forget the people's business like passing laws, a lot of improved infrastructure, help people pay their mortgages. remember those other americans they may not be members of conserve pif 50123 cs but they need your help to. fixing the economy is more important than the irs controversy. >> what i'm doing today is my job. nied the senate to do its job. >> now on wednesday the woman that many believe should spr been our secretary of state

would promoted to be our national security adviser. and gop there's nothing you can do about it. >> suz season the public servant, a patriot who puts her country first. he's fearless, tough. >> cue the outrage. >> in a stunning announcement president obama is appointing susen rice to to be his top national security adviser. is this in your face or what? >> one of the most arrogant decisions of his presidency president obama has a -- >> i don't understand it. she's a capable able person but he went out and lied. >> just as the tied seemed to be turning a new story erupted when the british paper reported that

the obama has been -- that was over shadow the president's need for high speed internet in school. >> good morning. they know who you're talking to. >> a secret government program is tracking your phone call. what is the national security agency looking for. >> everybody is going to wake up going wait a minute, i have verz verizon? what are they doing. >> then we found out the government is mining our online data and tracking our online habits chlg even bigger than we knew the controversy over -- >> the newly revealed secret intelligent operation that could impact every american. >> the new nair ti had a new narrative but the president fought back and defended his counterterrorism programs. >> when it comes to telephone calls, nobody is listening to

your telephone calls. that's not what this program is about. my assessment and my team's assessment was that they help us prevent terrorists attacks. i think it's important to recognize that you can't have 100% security and also then have 100% privacy and zero inconvenience. >> so the play that began this week basically ended as a push. the administration did take some hits but they were very quick to push back with hard and they kept a strong performance by the president himself at the end of the week. unlike the scandals of the previous month they didn't wait to fight back and that's actually the real play of the week. >> the people who are involved in america's national security, they take this work very

seriously. they cherish our constitution. the last thing they would be doing is taking programs like this to listen to somebody's phone calls. >> so next on that subject we're going to ask a very simple question. is the government allowed to keep secrets from the american people? you're watching "disrupt" on msnbc. the usual, bob? not today. [ male announcer ] bob has afib: atrial fibrillation not caused by a heart valve problem, a condition that puts him at greater risk for a stroke. [ gps ] turn left. i don't think so. [ male announcer ] for years, bob took warfarin, and made a monthly trip to the clinic to get his blood tested. but not anymore. bob's doctor recommended a different option: once-a-day xarelto®. xarelto® is the first and only once-a-day prescription blood thinner for patients with afib not caused by a heart valve problem, that doesn't require routine blood monitoring.

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to pause for just a moment. what's a causing the break down. sit a long overdue conversation on our national security and own friday the president knew that he needed to address it. >> one of the things we're going to have to discuss and debate is how are we striking this balance between the need to keep the american people safe and our concerns about privacy. because there are some tradeoffs involved. i welcome this debate. >> all right. the president says we need a debate. let's have a debate. joining me are philip mud, senior research fellow at the new american foundation, former senior intelligence adviser of the fbi and elizabeth go teen. thank you for your time. both of you. >> thank you.

>> i want tot start liz za with you. there's a fundamental question here which is does the government have a right to keep secrets on our behalf in this instance? >> well certainly the government has a right to keep some secrets and i think the example you hear quite often is intelligence sources or sen tif operational details of intelligence activities. those things have to be kept secret. but president obama said it himself we need a public debate on the fundamental questions of how we value our policy, ou effective the techniques are and whether the tradeoff is worth it. we can't have a public debate when the entire program is sha rouded in secrecy including the basic legal interpretation of why this can go forward.

>> one of this things that struck me about the reaction that we're seeing this week, i can remember back in '05, '06 when we first found out about the warrantless wiretap programs that president bush was engaging in, we wanted a fro says. we wanted three branches of government involved, congress needs to be briefed on this and we now have that. so now it feels like people are saying we need more than -- we did say we wanted a process nop. now we're saying we want more transparency. >> as a former practitioner, it's frustrating watching this from the outside. it gives you a migraine. if you don't take advantage of the law somebody is going to say you're not connecting the dots, not using the tools that the congress gave. >> on that point, here's one of the things that struck me again listen to this debate. these are very hard questions. i was thinking to myself, oklahoma. obviously unfortunately we could

not prevent the boston bombings but what if through a program like this something like that had been prevented. when you put it to that kind of test and you say to people, then is it okay, i think that's a much different question. what is it that you actually do with this information when you say, when we connect the dots? >> the story behind this is pretty fascinating. if you for example were the subject of an investigation when i sat at the fbi, one of the questions is who are you? if the foreign security service says you're a bad guy, i want to know what you're doing in new york city. how quickly can we draw a web around you, that and that's e-mail, in the 21st century i can draw a picture of what your conspiracy is more than i could 15 years ago. >> elizabeth we've got a statement actually that dni director just put out this information.

one of this things that's been interesting over the last couple of days is what we know today is little different than what we first were learning on thursday night. so clapper says over the last week we have seen reckless disclosures of intelligence community measures used to keep americans safe. in a rush to public medial outlets have not given the full context, including the extent to which these are over seen over the three branches of government. again i guess i sort of go back to the fundamental question of how do we balance or liberty and our freedom when actually on the one hand you've got a number of companies like foog l and facebook taking in all kinds of information on us to sell us stuff. then on the other hand we find out that the government is collecting this information to protect us? >> well the balance that's been struck in the law is that the government can engage in pretty broad collection of information even about american citizens if

there is a reason to believe that that information is relevant to an authorized investigation. that's a very generous standard that shouldn't be too difficult to meet. what happened in the case of the domestic telephone records is that the government went went beyond that and has collected all american's telephone records and needless to say, not all americans telephone records are relevant to a particular authorized investigation. so i think the problem is that the balance that we see in the statute books is not necessarily the balance that is being struck in practice. >> you know, philip, one of the things that strikes me about that, so some degree it's a matter of do you trust our sbeg jens officials, the people gathering the information to be able to connect the dots but also to act responsibly. the president actually hay addressed that in his comments yesterday. let's play that and then we'll talk about it on the other side.

the people who are involved in america's national security, they take this work very seriously. they cherish our constitution. the last thing they'd be doing is taking programs like this to listen to somebody's phone calls. >> philip, your reaction. >> i got to tell you as many somebody who was in chair i wouldn't trust me. i know i'm not supposed to say that. >> that's not good. >> the point of american government seriously is, i got my butt handed to me by congress on countless occasions. furthermore much as i don't like debates about things that are supposed to be secret out in the media, there's a perfect debate to be had. that is in the 21st century you're on twitter i e-mail, you're texting, what are you comfortable with your government doing. if you're not comfortable tell your congressman to pass a law against it.

this debate is healthy. >> it strikes me that essentially what we're seeing here is that the technology has gotten ahead of the law. so how do we bring that back into greater balance? but you know, again, i guess this balance between we're talking about something that's supposed to be a national security context versus as philip was mentioning, you're on twitter, you're on e-mail. they're collecting dataton you too. >> you're absolutely right. the technology has outpaced the law. we have laws that are are designed that are designed for a world that doesn't exist anymore. so there's something called the third party dock doctrine which says any information you share with somebody else you can't have any expectation of privacy in that information. there's no american in this country who can get through 24 hours without sharing personal information with their internet service provider just by going to the atm. so yes we need to see the law

keeping up a little better. >> thanks to our guests. thank you for your time this afternoon. >> thank. don't be afraid. the government is watching. disrupt the conversation. we always want to hear your comments. tell us what stories you want the hear about. like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. you're watching "disrupt" on msnbc. so i have this front porch. but it's really empty. so, my dad is making me these. i said i'd help. ah, so you're going to need some tools of your own.

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vietnam in 1972. [ all ] fort benning, georgia in 1999.

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general's report site the white house. as another report emerged this week detailing $50 million spent on employee conferences, including 4 million oun one meeting alone and at least $60,000 went to producing a star trek parody and a cupid shuffle dance party. seriously, guys? come on. wasn't the gill gan's island controversy enough? this sounds a lot more like keystone cops than grand conspirators to me. are you scared yet? >> people are upset with the irs scandal. >> the questions were chilling. >> i was shock i was being asked those questions. >> this is arrogance. >> this is arrogance. >> someone needs to be prosecuted. >> to the left, three, four.

>> this is big government kroenism. >> the president's incompetence and lack of moral compass lead many to suggest that he is not fit to lead. >> that's why i became a public servant. >> this is a problem that was coordinated in all likelihood right out of washington headquarters. >> did the campaign of intimidation come from the white house? >> the circus that's happening in the oversight committee or here is simply political theater. >> so you're to blame i guess is the message here. >> just when you thought it couldn't get any worse at the irs, nearly $50 million spent on conferences for employees. >> people are frozen with fear. >> total an ark ki. >> frozen with fear. >> are you scared yet? let's bring in our guests to talk about the irs so called

conspiracy. aim my kremer is chair of the tea party express and jillian is a strategist. thank you so much for joining me on my first show. amy i would like to start with you. this week we saw some folks from different groups testify about what they went through. but over this week and the last couple of weaks some of the groups would not have qualified based on the requirement for the sort of social welfare activities. then we also learned that it turns out more conservative groups were approved than liberal groups which seems to undercut some of the argument here. >> it doesn't matter how many more were approved or weren't approved. i mean the bottom line is the irs went above and beyond its power. they admitted that they were wrong in doing this. and it's a violation of our first amendment rights. it's not just about tea party or conservative. every single american should be concerned about this because a government bureaucracy is being

used to target people for their political believes. >> but again, let's be clear though. let's remember what we're talking about, what we were looking for is whether or not these groups would qualify for a certain kind of tax status and essentially people were sorting the information out based on different words an phrases and trying to determine levels of political activity. there's in evidence that this is you know the white house and this sort of grander scheme. why isn't it boss that this is people being really stupid in the way they were doing their job? >> first of all we didn't know that the white house is. >> we do at this point that's no frot true. >> we haven't gotten to the bottom of it yet. >> there is no evidence. >> karen tell me who is responsible for it. >> okay. we're going to -- you know what abamy in this show we're going to dealing with facts at this point there's in evidence of it so we're not going to say that it is. okay. >> we can't say that they

weren't either because we don't know who was responsible. >> we can't say that the sky was never purple either but we know that it's not. julian i want to switch to you here because one of the things that strikes me, i know you know the law on this very well. you know having been through sort of the independent special prosecutor process myself when i was work thg the clinton administration there seems to be the element of be careful what you wish for because as you know once you turn that on they have very broad powers. and particularly if a number of these groups actually don't qualify, actually aren't, you know, the level of political activity is such that they wouldn't qualify, they're going to be liable for that, right. >> yes, you're right on today karen. i think i would agree with amy that the irs sould not be engaged in selective targeting. >> of course. >> the inspector general found in every piece of evidence indicated there is no white house involvement, so you can

keep saying what when and -- it's an irresponsible thing to say on television. point two is we're learning that many of these groups did not in fact qualify for tax exempt status. one group of california claimed to the irs they would not be involved in any political activities, yet the majority of their expenditures were for radio adds to elect a republican. you're going to start hearing the republicans, their calms for a special prosecutor are going to start dwindling very quickly. many of these groups in fact if they didn't qualify for tax exempt status, which they probably didn't, they may owe bax taxes with, may have made false statement to the rivers, donors would be response, for gift taxes. so i think that the accusations and the rhetoric have gone way out of proportion here as to what's happened. there's no question that the cincinnati office of the irs was wrong in doing the targeting.

>> it came from washington. >> many it didn't come from washington. >> it did come from washington. we have tm. >> amy. >> people said that part of their procedure was to check with certain -- >> refer them. >> refer them to people in washington who were experts in the particular area. >> this is the thing though. >> guys final points to you very quickly. >> ofa move on.com were both very helpful in electing obama in 2008. why was it no one was karnd about this at that time. >> amy aagree with you that groups on the left should have the same kind of scrutiny. that does not change the point that that many of the groups on the right that were trying to get the tax exempt status has not business getting it. if your argument is that the groups on the left should get the same scrutiny i'll agree with you. >> absolutely. >> guys we're going to have to leave it there. i completely agree with you

there shouldn't be any kind of targeting. part of what that is the arms race on both sides that citizens united just really exploded us into a whole new territory where both said are saying i'm not going to disarm if you're not going to disarm. i think the people are disserved by that. thank you so much for you time today. >> congratulations on the new show. >> thanks for having me. yes, congratulations. >> coming up the 5%. your ear watching "disrupt" on msnbc. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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the vast majority of americans actually have no idea what kind of stress we're impose on our service members antheir families. less than half 1% of our country fight or wars for us. they uprupt their lives for another deployment, dealing with the physical and emotional injuries. for families in particular watching a spouse or parent vanish for months knowing that person maybe will come back, maybe they won't come back, maybe they'll come back change. there's a study that shows the

children of deployed parents are showing signs that can dris rupt the development of the brain. the servicemen and women are going to continue to do it for our safety. this is something we're going to be talking about on our show. what responsibility to we owe to them to help shoulder those burdens. i'm really honored to be joined by medical of honor resip gentleman and nbc analyst jack jacobs and the our author of standing by, the making of an american family at a time of war. thank you for joining me. i have someone in afghanistan currently serving so this is a subject that's near and deer to my heart. allison i want to start with you. one of the things in your book that you talk about was sort of the initial process and sort of, you know, crying but not wanting people to see you crying.

>> right. >> why are we so -- i did the same thing. people on the shuttle between new york and d.c. probably think i'm crazy because i have been sitting there with tears down pi face. why are we so ashamed so share that. why do we feel like we have to hide that from people. >> i think traditionally military spouses and military family members were supposed to be as stoic as the service member himself. and i think part of the glamour if that's part of the word was this soism. just in the time i've written standing by i think there's a greater understanding by is vilians of what military families go through. i think the gap that was once huge, i mean when the war started it was a -- people do know people in the service. >> we currently have 66,000

troops on the ground in afghanistan. that number is going to be about that high until we get through the fighting seasons. we're still at war and yet it doesn't flieblg most americans are aware of that. mow do we do a better job of letting people in to share this burden? >> the large proportion of the job, that job should fall on the government but the government of course is no political interest in continuing to pass on the notion that we're not only at war but we're going to continue to be at war. not only are we not reducing the threats to the country, but in fact the threats are greater in number, more widely geographically disbursed. we're bringing troops home but the requirement for troops overseas is going to actually increase and they'll be in far flung destinations that we're not at now anso on. >> that also means families waiting for loved ones to come

home. there's a disconnect for so many in america. >> i'm not so certain. i know how allison feels perhaps because through her efforts and the efforts of other people to make sure that the public understands the problems that military families have, the stresses that they go through are bearing some fruit that the american public rales reallyas some feel for what those stresses are. my notion, my feeling is that the gulf, particularly in terms of numbers, the gulf between the people who are serving and the people who are sbg served is as wide as it's ever been and i think i ooh e going to get wider as we have fewer people actually overseas. >> i think we're going to unfortunately have to leave it there. it's a topic we're going to continue to talk about an "disrupt." it's not going away and in fact we should note that just today three american service members were killed in afghanistan in a green on blue attack.

afgan soldier, this they were training, turned his weapon on him. military and cyst an author allison buckles, thank you so much for joining us today. >> thanks to your attention to military families. >> absolutely. that does it more me on this premier of "disrupt." premier of "disrupt." up next "the ed show." this ge jet engine can understand 5,000 data samples per second. which is good for business. because planes use less fuel, spend less time on the ground and more time in the air. suddenly, faraway places don't seem so...far away. ♪ are proven to be effective pain relievers tylenol works by blocking pain signals to your brain bayer back & body's dual action formula includes aspirin, which blocks pain at the site.

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they even reward me for addressing my health risks. so i'm doing fine... but she's still going to give me a heart attack. we're more than 78,000 people looking out for more than 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. in one of the most arrogant downright reckless decisions in his entire presidency, president obama has selected his ak dasz door to his u.n. as the next security adviser. if he wants to promote ambassador rise, he's going to do it. >> i'm absolutely thrill she'll be back at my side. ♪ >> isn't that shady?