we constantly monitor the web so if any of your personal information is misused, we're on it. ♪ ow. [ male announcer ] call 1-800-lifelock or go to lifelock.com today. a good sunday to you. and i'm richard lui in for kcrag melvin. here's what's happening. >> we're trying to minimize the invasions of privacy, keep them to an absolute minimum and only focus on targets that really pose a threat. >> the top u.s. intelligence chief declassified details about the government surveillance program. james clapper pushing for a criminal investigation how this first leaked out. plus, a new republican endorsement of the senate gang of eight's immigration plan and another republican predicts

passage in the senate. the support hinges on tougher border security, and this -- >> if the judge says we're picking a jury monday, we'll start picking a jury monday. we start opening statements, whenever she does, we'll be ready. >> the george zimmerman trial, that begins tomorrow. the defense is pushing for a third delay. a live report from the courthouse coming up. let's begin with our political headlines for you. new hampshire senator kelly aot, today will support the senate gang of eight, before her vote in play. the sixth republican to publicly bat the bill at this point. >> i've looked at this very carefully. our immigration system is completely broken. 11 million people living in this country illegally, in the shadows. we have a legal immigration system that isn't meeting our needs to grow our economy. and so i looked at this careful, as thoughtful and bipartisan solution to a tough problem and said, that's why i'm going to support it. >> new questions raised this morning over why susan rice used

the talking points that she did when speaking about the attack on the u.s. consulate in benghazi. former cia director general michael hayyden said it appeare they observerly crafted in her words. >> most unusual, cia was writing the talking points. on a good sunday morning on the talk shows you get policy talk. on most sunday mornings you get political talk. neither of those are intelligence talk. so why is the intelligence organization writing when the page is blank? >> the firestorm continues over the newly disclosed government programs on internet and phone call activity. on "abc this morning" dianne feinstein defended that practice. >> they believe that the balance between privacy and national security is out of wack when these programs. your response? >> well, of course, balance is a

difficult thing to actually identify what it is, but i can tell you this -- these programs are within the law. >> well, the practices of the nsa may be not legal but are they an invasion? joining us now with more on this is alex warty of the national journal and amy stoddard of the hill. good sunday to both of you. while feinstein has been asportive, we've been watching her comments over the last week, democratic senator udall voiced concerns on cnn. listen to that and get your response. >> i expect the government to protect my privacy, and it feels like that isn't what's been happening. again, there's a line, but this, to me, the scale of it and the fact that the law was being secretly interpreted has long concerned me. i'm glad we're having this debate. >> so, secretly interpreted. there are those secret fisa courts and determining how the law should be carried out.

what do you make of secretly interpreted? >> i think what we learned this week is that it is not a surprise that this has been going on. and that it's necessary for our own national security, but it is also the work of the entire government. all three branches are involved, known about it and approved and monitored this program. now, going forward what you are going to see is a reaction to the public polling. i think most americans i spoke to this week expected that this has been going on, and don't all uniformly have an aclu libertarian reaction about privacy concerns. there are some, but it has not been drastic. if that appears to be the case you'll see bipartisan momentum in the congress about opening this up and writing some new rules, but if you talk to members of both parties, you'll find consensus that this is just what we live with and the founding fathers certainly could not anticipate people being radicalized over the internet.

>> an exclusive interview with msnbc's andrea mitchell, and james clapper who pushed back against "myths" as has been said of the program. listen to what was said. >> we are under strict court supervision, i have to get strict, and permission to actually look at that. so the notion that we're trolling through everyone's e-mails, and voyeuristically reading them or listening to everyone's phone calls is on its face absurd. we couldn't do it even if we wanted to, and i assure you, we don't want to. >> now, when we look at this here, alex, that was followed by the release of this three-page document from the dni. what is the most detailed explanation on the program so far, at least. will this help calm that storm? maybe some of the criticism coming from some members of congress that a.b. was talking about? >> clearly, a concerted pushback today and the first real pushback since a lot of these stories broke earlier this week, and i think a.b. touched on it.

the question, is this going to translate into any real public outrage? and i think that's kind of questionable. the question is, sometimes you get this in washington where the media is maybe a little more focused on something than the general public. that's not to say it's not important. certainly it's an important story. but we at the national journal actually did a poll this week where we asked people, you know, do you expect your electronic communications, something like e-mail, to be private and overwhelming, people said, no, we don't, actually. maybe that's alarming in its own right, but it does speak to the idea that people seem at least in a post-9/11 world not to expect any privacy, or expect some national security concerns to come in and therapy willing to trade some of their own privacy for that. look, i mean, these stories and what they revealed i think for most people, more far-reaching than a lot of people knew about, and certainly raised eyebrow, certainly mine. we'll have to see if that

translates into anything, but you have to be careful sometimes that the big story in washington is not necessarily the big story in the rest of america. >> true. does the rest of america care about this narrative we're talking about here? a.b., back to d.c. for a second. congressman mike rogers, senator john mccain, both saying that these practices are very important to tracking down terrorists. how much detail? you know, i'm mentioning that three-page document released. we're getting more from james clapper. how much detail should be released to make americans, those who might care and those who do not understand what is happening here? >> well, again, that's going to depend on the reaction. they've actually told us, congressman rogers, they've already stopped live plots and prevented attacks. so what happens when something like this is revealed is that we're less safe, because our enemies are now aware of our tact tactics. it's not a good thing. you can see pushback from

clapper and others in the administration, because they don't want to reveal more. they don't want to talk about it anymore. the more we share with the world the less safe we are. again, it will have to be a result of conversations members have at home in the constituents that they represent before we see a real successful push to open it, you know, wide up. >> yeah. a fine line, a.b., you're describing there. alex, finish with this. you recently wrote that republicans are mixed on immigration right now. as it relates to the 2014 election? and when you look at these leaks, that we've been dealing with over the last week, how might this go forward into the mid-terms? >> well, look, i think that remains to be seen. whether or not, you know -- what's going to matter for the election? something like integration, or gun control, and probably still first and foremost the economy are going to matter a great deal more. again, i think whether or not this is really caught on to the public's view and privacy is going to become a major issue. look, i think there's an outside

chance if we want to talk about the national security state and what is appropriate now that, to keep us safe versus keeping everything private. you know, you can see some of that debate. i would be skeptical, though, that that's going to be a major electoral issue for the midterms. >> it has not yet fallen into clear partisan divide here as we've been watching. thank you so much, alex, a.b. appreciate it. have a good weekend. >> thanks. as we mentioned, new hampshire republican senator kelly ayotte announcing hours ago she would support the immigration plan. a huge boost to backers of the bill since only a handful of republicans have come onboard so far. senator rand paul, however, sang a different tune on fox this morning. take a listen. >> the thing is, what they have in the senate has zero chance of passing in the house. so why not come to a conservative like myself and say, he's willing to work with you. why not work with me to make the bill closer to what would be acceptable in the house?

i'm really trying to make immigration work, but they're going to have to come to me and they're going to have to work with me to make the bill stronger if they want me to vote for it. >> california congresswoman judy chu joins us, the chair of the congressional asian caucus. madam chair, good to see you. paul, as you heard there, saying that senate republican support by ayotte's may pass the bill in the senate but it's the house where the real middle will be found. do you agree with that? >> i think that the senate bill shows that you can reach a compromise, and it is my hope that house republicans will see that this is the right bill to pass. >> will you do as he asked? will some members of the house go to him to find that middle ground? >> i believe that they will. there already is a bipartisan group in the house. there are various pieces of legislation going through. obviously, the house will have to have input into the overall bill, but i do believe that the senate is doing a solid thing by

getting that compromise ahead of thyme. >> what's your when you see senators like senator rand paul become more involved in the immigration bill? does that help or hurt the process as it moves forward into a crucial can bunch of weeks ahead? >> he is willing to engage. so that's great. but i tell you, i was most encouraged by senator ayotte's announcement today. to me that says that, that senators are thinking carefully about this and people on the republican side are saying that this is something that must be done. >> because border security was one of the key elements of immigration reform bill for senator ayotte, and she was, her vote was in play. did that surprise you when she came out this morning on ap sunday to say, i am now for it? >> i was very encouraged, and i would say that shows the good work that the senate is doing to move this bill forward. >> you know, on uni vision, senator marco rubio said this, we translate. we'll have a lot more than 60

votes but we're going to have to work at it. so we've seen him kind of go back and forth on the bill that he helped to actually write that is being considered. does 70 senators saying yes mean more to your republican colleagues in the house than, say, 60? >> i would very much hope for a super majority of votes on the senate. i think it would sandy greend a signal this is a viable bill. >> is he being presumptuous in counting those chicks before they hatch? >> it can only be a good thing to have that kind of a strong vote. it would be unprecedented. especially for something like immigration, which hasn't gone forward in two decades. we need to have that strong vote, and i believe house republicans, of course, will have their input, but it will start in the senate. >> now, you recently wrote about your disappointment in the family provisions taken out of the senate bill, and you wrote this in politico in an op-ed.

"like any compromise important provision was lost in the give and take of negotiations. the current bill is weakened by the fact it limits the ability for some parents to bring their children here and imbeenenating the rights for silllings to sponsor their brothers and sisters." is there a deal breaker for you? >> i am still hopeful we can have the sibling category as well as the adult married children category fully contained within the bill. we are pushing as hard as we can. i do have to say, though, that the senate bill has many good things that will provide so much relief for immigrants across this nation. especially in its reduction of the family visa backlogs. >> would you vote yes to the bill as it stands right now? >> as it stands now, i believe that it does provide so much relief and, yes, i would support it. >> okay. thank you so much. congresswoman judy chu, appreciate your time. >> thank you. up next, nuns on the bus.

>> so join us, join us as we nuns on the bus, all of us, drive for faith, family and fairness! >> see? we didn't make up that title. what they call themselves. a group of nuns taking a less than traditional role of activism pushing for activism on the road. taking a mission cross country and a fiery mess at the french open today. security tackles a flame-carrying man just steps from tennis star rafael nadal. that video and who won. you're watching msnbc. humans.

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nuns on the bus is group of ordained catholic sisters, controversial topics are not new to this group. they've hit the road for the affordable health care act and the ryan budget plan and they say they are promoting social justice. today the nuns on the bus are in san antonio, texas. their bus left ellis island may 28th and is expected to cover more than 6,500 miles to california hitting at least 15 states, 53 events in 40 cities. sister campbell doesn't look tired at all today. the head of the nuns on the bus movement and joins me live from san antonio, texas. are you tired, sister? what's it like living on a bus that amount of time? >> a little weary-making, but i'll tell you, all the people we meet along the road that care passion lit about this issue, the stories we've heard and how this issue touches 100% of the nation really keeps us going. it fuels our spirits and keeps us alive, but every now and then we do need a nap.

>> nothing like being on the road and seeing the wond every of the country. you're no stranger to politics. you spoke at the national convention last september, pushed a number of social agendas as was mentioned. now immigration. what's personal to you about immigration? >> what's personal to me is that my religious community was founded by an immigrant woman who came from hungary to los angeles, and ended up working with mexican immigrants and the hungarian immigrants at the time. our roots as a religious community are immigrant roots. but the other thing is that stories we have heard along the way of fear at every turn, of fear of a dream student who was brought here at the age of 2, and now has her driver's license and fears something will happen to her parents. so she drives her parents every place. the fear that workers have that their jobs may disappear, because they don't know what's going to happen. fear is not good for our nation, and we know that we're better as

a nation if we step away from fear. we reclaim community, which is what our nation is about, and that we work together to fix our problems. that makes it really personal for me. >> and that is your theme about fear. a question about this, and this got stripped out of the current bill being entertained, but would you support the bill if it included support for lgbt couples? >> oh, this bill is so complex that what we're looking for is a bill that gets through with comprehensive immigration reform that includes a path to citizenship for the 11 million here. there's so many details we could argue about, but we'll really focused on -- >> does that mean yes, though, sister? >> it means i'm after this bill! that's what we want. we are so heartened that republicans and democrats are together. so there's going to have to be a bunch of compromises to get republicans and democrats even talking to each other. so let's get this bill done. then other changes can happen afterwards in amendments or

moving other pieces forward, but let's do the basics now. >> watching some pictures of you on the road here. so impassioned in your speaking, and you know, sometimes there's been criticism of what you've said in your group in the past by church leadership. sometimes taking on extreme stances and one of the quotes was radical feminism. >> yes. >> is church leadership onboard with your latest project here as you're on the road? >> oh, the amazing thing is we stand with our bishops. we have had three bishops come to actually to our events. i was stunned. the bishop of boston sent aer will of welcome and the vicar of religious came and read the welcome letter. from bishops in charleston and all along our route. so we stand with our bishops. that's what's we say is that standing with our bishops we've gone labor and the chamber of commerce standing together. we've got the, even i understand grover norquist endorsed comprehensive immigration reform. we've got everybody cooperating

to make this happen. is time is now. that's why we have a cute text thing where people can text 877877 and put in the message nuns and you get my voice after a second text message, and what you do is, i encourage you to call your senators and we'll put you through. it's fabulous. >> you are on the road, focusing on voters and constituents in the areas you're hitting, but isn't the d.c. where you need to be changing views or affecting views based on this topic? >> i'm a lobbyist in d.c., but what i know is the only way that senators votes are going to change is if we, the people, speak up. so that's why we're on the road. i say we're creating a healthy tsunami of political power on the part of the people. we, the people, know that the 100% will be better if our senators in the senate solve this problem and we're putting pressure on the house as well to make sure that the house of representatives takes it up and votes through a comprehensive reform that includes a path to

citizenship. >> sister campbell, in san antonio, texas. beautiful town. enjoy it there, and get a couple of naps along the way. you've got a while to go. >> we certainly do. thank you so much. >> appreciate it. up next, a cruise with conservatives. a chance to vacation with the likes of a former republican congressman, and bush 41's chief of staff. we'll tell you about this gop getaway. ♪ [ agent smith ] i've found software that intrigues me. it appears it's an agent of good. ♪ [ agent smith ] ge software connects patients to nurses to the right machines while dramatically reducing waiting time. [ telephone ringing ] now a waiting room is just a room. [ static warbles ]

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when two of the world's most powerful leaders sit down to dine you know the menu has to make a drool, just a little. this weekend when president obama and the chinese president broke bread together the white house called in a celebrity. bobby flay, a menu included lobster tamales, porter house steak and cherry pie. the shout-out on the pool report. now we're all hungry. and president obama stops in.

massachusetts voters vote in a special election june 25. the president's push for markey comes after he and gabriel go squared off in a debate. she's a navy s.e.a.l. and political newcomer. a lot of fodder to late-night comics. listen to this. what's going on? the white house is looking into phone records, checking our computers. monitoring our e-mails. when did the government suddenly become our psycho ex-girlfriend? when did that happen? when did that happen? >> former republican congressman alan west may have the best summer gig yet. he and an slew of prominent republicans including former chief of staff to george w. bush john sununu will set sail as speakers on a norwegian cruise ship. the all-star lineup of conservatives headlines the national review cruise, which leaves port august 1. last we checked, cabins are still available. and basketball star jason

collins, first openly gay active player in pro sports marched yesterday in boston's gay pripd parade. hashtag be true, a t-shirt he wore. and massachusetts congressman joe kennedy. and george zimmerman on trial. the nation debated this case nearly a year. now selecting a jury tharstarts tomorrow. how did the jury find six impartial jurors. and nelson mandela, spending the day in the hospital. the four time since december.

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a look at top stories now. an arrest in the building collapse in philadelphia. police there say that sean benshaw the backhoe operator allegedly responsible for the collapse turned himself in yesterday. he did not post bail. six people died and another 13 injured when the building came down last week. take a look at this.

a shirtless man with a sparking flare interrupted play at the french open this afternoon. rafael nadal is walking the other way. ran out on to the court in the middle of the men's final. nadal up against federer. security stopped him, put out the flames. play resumed. nadal winning in straight sets. his eighth french open title. that fire not making a blink at all. broadways big night. tonys start in a few hours across from our studios at, noal radio city music hall. neil patrick harris is back for the ceremony four the fourth time. top runners, "kinky boots." and nelson mandela remains in the hospital receiving visits from family members. live in johannesburg with the latest. >> reporter: hey, richard. good evening. in fact, nelson mandela's

children and grandchildren were seen entering the hospital where it's thought she being treated today and his daughter seen leaving and smiling. every time nelson mandela has been hospitalized, he has recovered, and returned to his home here in johannesburg, but this time for the first time doctors are describing his condition as serious. nelson mandela remains hospitalized this morning, a day after he was rushed there by ambulance in the middle of the night. >> the president has called on the nation to pray for nelson mandela during his hospital stay. >> reporter: suffering from a lung inflation, a dplant repeatedly hospitalized him. many shocked that the last time they saw mandela looking frail in this video from the south african broadcasting corporation in april. now he is said to be in a serious condition. though she able to breathe on his own. >> his condition deteriorated to the point where it was found necessary to hospital him. she in a hospital in pretoria now.

the doctors robert that his condition is serious, but that he's stable. >> reporter: nelson mandela's lungs have been weak since suffering tuberculosis while a political prisoner. his strength helped bring about the transformation of his country, ending the oppressant apartheid sha ream. but she 94 now and his nation worries, concern for the father of modern south africa. a man they affectionately call by his clan name, madeba. >> reporter: the president's office attempting to reassure. >> he's a fighter, and at his age, as long as he's fighting, he'll be fine. >> reporter: nelson mandela faurt for freedom and democracy to end the oppression of his people. now he faces a different fight. >> this is a time where's we need to hold hands and pray for the elderly statesman. >> reporter: with so many around the world praying for him.

and nelson mandela would, of course, say that all this attention on him is misplaced. that many people helped with the struggle against apartheid but he is, of course, richard, so deeply loved here. people here and around the world are willing him to get better. >> around the world. underline that. 8:33 on a sunday there in south africa. thank you so much. at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow lawyers in the george zimmerman murder trial will begin questioning hundreds of potential jurors in this high-profile case. in a rare weekend hearing, zimmerman appeared in court yesterday. lawyers battled over audio analysis of a 911 call placed the night of the shooting. one big shooting, should it be admitted as evidence? that debates continues later this week. nbc's kerry sanders is in sanford, florida. despite decisions on admissible evidence left to be made still, jury selection still expected to start tomorrow jp is that what

you're hearing? >> reporter: yes, start on time as planned. they sent out 500 jury summons to the potential jurors who will begin showing up here tomorrow morning at the courthouse here in sanford. it's an extremely large number, but it's also reflect ive of th high-profile nature. 500 called and alternately whittle it down and choose six jurors for this case. >> so your first name is george. >> yes, sir. >> reporter: during the videotaped police interview, 29-year-old george zimmerman admits he shot and killed 17-year-old trayvon martin. >> i grabbed my gun and i -- aimed it at him and fired one shot. >> reporter: but he has pled not guilty to second-degree murder. >> he says, yo, you got a problem? i turned around and i said, no, i don't have a problem, man. >> reporter: as george zimmerman walked detectives through the events of that february night last year, he acknowledgealed he shot trayvon martin. >> and i just grabbed my firearm

and i shot him. one time. >> reporter: he admits he followed the 17-year-old that rainy night. >> the real suspicious kind. >> reporter: but in its probable cause affidavit, state prosecutors say trayvon martin was profiled by george zimmerman. >> the state has a very weak case, trying to building a case of guilt upon my client when he obviously acted in self-defense. >> reporter: the night of the crime,7-eleven. he was headed back to his father's girlfriend's condo and despite what a dispatcher said to george zimmerman. >> were you following him? >> yeah. >> we don't need you to do that. >> reporter: the watch leader follow and foot. then a commotion and several residents called 911. >> you need police, fire or medical? >> reporter: no one saw who set off the confrontation. who was the aggressor? how was it that george zimmerman's pistol ended up being fired? how did zimmerman sustained

injuries to his head? >> we have george zimmerman, who's alive. you have trayvon martin who's dead, who's not here to tell his story. of course, he's going to blame the victim. >> reporter: trayvon martin's parents say all they've wanted is a day in court. >> this was a minor by any terms. there wasn't an adult and another adult. trayvon thought as a 17-year-old. why's this guy following me? >> reporter: it will take upwards of two weeks, maybe longer. by order of the judge, all the jurors in the potential poll will remain a secret. richard? >> a note on the story, george zimmerman sued nbc universal, the parent company of this network for defamation. the company strongly denied his allegations. more on this story i'd like to bring in former federal prosecutors and criminal defense lawyer jay fahey.

listening to that great report. 1%. 500. wham will they be looking for? >> have you heard much about the case and will that influence you and will you oh beme, the judge, when you get the jury instructions? >> can they do it? >> they can do it. hinckley that shot president reagan, it's going to be hard but can easily take two-plus week but there will be jury picked that will say they can be fair. >> 600, a common number? >> what's not common, in most criminal trials around the country, a dozen on the jury. uncommon that the final people deliberating will only be six. that's florida law. >> let's talk about the speed at which they are moving at. there is the 911 call that decision has not been made on as of yet. that remains out there. and solved later next week. is this moving along pretty quickly? >> relatively quickly. the answer is yes. legal issues, misconduct against

the prosecutors for not turning over evidence. with all of that, a judge a pushing hard. could easily delay the case another week or so as the defense asked for, but this is moving quickly and we have a strong judge that wants it to move quickly. >> based and what you've seen from this judge, your thoughts? >> my sense, she's fair. most rulings pro-prosecutor but the reality is, most judges tend to, they are fair but rulings tend to be more for prosecutors than defense. >> so far? >> so far. she seems business-like and i think will be a fair job and do a good job. >> one asked to use the vigilante, wannabe cop or any word of profile. how might this affect the questioning into that phase? >> i think that the, everyone is concerned that this case has taken on a national identity as

being almost a racial type, a racially charged crime. i think both sides are going to be sensitive to that simply because this is a big case. this is a murder case. someone is sded. however, that sensitively will occur. >> who does it favor? >> more the defendant. in this case more favors the defendant. >> possible limitations? >> i don't think the judge will agree with all. the word vigilante, perhaps not. in an opening statement and especially closing statement, summation, the sides are given great latitude what they can say and describe, and how they can interpret the evidence. so whether this guess stopped or not, i don't believe it will. >> so now, jay, we've got a piece of sound for you. a 911 call that a neighbor placed. prosecutors say you can hear tra trayvon martin's voice pleading for help. let's take ap listen to it. >> does he look hurt? >> i can't see him. i don't want to go out there. i don't know what's going on.

[ scream ] >> he's yelling help? >> yes. >> what is your -- >> okay. so the defense says there's no way to tell what is going on in the background in that sound. how crucial will this be here, jay? >> the answer is, this is a very, very important fact in this case. playing that tape. because the zimmerman family says that's george zimmerman. jimmerman's parents and siblings say that's george zimmerman. trayvon's father said initially it doesn't sound like my son. put that on one side. the fbi listened to this tape and was not able to determine whose voice it was because of the quality of the tape is not good enough. is relatively common in criminal cases to have a voice expert say, this is the voice of the person on the foet, et cetera. when there's a living person and

you can compare a tape with an scamp more. we don't have that. a very important factin this case but i don't know which way it's going to go. >> a lot of moving parts here. in this next week what is key to watch? >> key to watch is the judge making a ruling on the 911 tape, whether they'll allow experts in or not. if the prosecution has experts the defense has experts. one of the other big factors here, if there are no experts, they want to trayvon martin's brothers, sister, on the stand. that may open to gun, somebody that was a little preoccupied with guns and took pictures of it. if that door can get open that will greatly help the prosecution. >> jay fahey, thank you. appreciate your time. up next, the 50-year fight. the equal pay act was signed into law a half essentially ago today. it's our flashback. and defending his decision. new jersey governor chris christie wants a special election costing almosts 24ds

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♪ it was 50 years ago tomorrow, 1963, that the equal pay act was enacted. president john f. kennedy signing it into law the very next day, but by 1970, full-time working women were still only making 62 cents for every dollar that men made. it's improved but the gap is still significant. 's in 2012, full-time working women still earned just 77 cents for every dollar that men earned. the ground for women to make up in 2009 president obama signed his first bill into law, the lily lly ledbetter fair bay act >> equal pay is by no means just a women's issue. it's a family issue. it's about parents who find themselves with less money for

tuition and child care. couples who wind up with less to retire on. households where one bread winner is paid less than she deserves. the last thing they can afford is losing part of each month's paycheck to simple and plain discrimination. >> the lilly ledbetter fair pay act makes filing discrimination suits easier's with women earning less than men, half a century since the equal pay act was enacted. plaque back to this day in 1972 a triple crown sek ksecretariat. the ninth triple crown in history and only two more won since. the last winner affirmed in 1978, and this weekend, nope. no triple crown winner but upset at belmont stakes. taking first place, palace malice. the 3-year-old beatout preakness

and kentucky derby winner. congratulations, palace malice. up next, surveillance scrutiny. how much access does the government really have over your e-mails and phone calls? we ask a senior attorney behind a group working to defend your digital rights. you're watching msnbc. [ male announcer ] with free package pickup from the united states postal service a small design firm can ship like a big business. just go online to pay, print and have your packages picked up for free. we'll do the rest. ♪

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the government is slamming what it calms reckless disclosure of nsa surveillance programs. jam clapper, director of national intelligence saying the surveillance programs do not infringe on americans' privacy. take a listen. we are under strict court supervision. the notion we're trolling through everyone's e-mails and voyeuristically reading them or listening to everyone's phone calms is on its face absurd. we couldn't do it even if we wanted to, and i assure you, we don't want to. >> that from nbc's andrea

mitchell, in an exclusive interview. a senior staff attorney at the electronic frontier foundation. thanks for being with us. you heard some of director clapper's comments there. you may have looked at the three-page document that was released right after that. does this make you comfortable with the way the government is dealing with access to information in this prism program to internet companies? >> absolutely not. i mean, we have seen similar statements from dni clapper. i remember when he responded to a question from senator wyden, were they collecting information about millions of americans and clapper said, no. and then we see the order to verizon showing that the nsa is collecting information on millions and millions of americans. >> what about the plicrism whap? does the government have the direct access? s what clapper is saying, they do not? >> according to the latest news reports including an nsa ig report leaked to "the washington

post" apparently, the government enters a search query into a computer and then that gets transferred to the companies without the company seeing what the query is, and then they get a response back. that's fairly direct access. >> saying it's trngz ansactionat wholesale. >> a series of requests one after another can add up to a lot of different people. >> and dianne feinstein, chair of the national intelligence committee, listen to what she said recently. >> the program is essentially walled off within the nsa. limited numbers of people who have access to it. the only thing taken as has been correctly expressed is not content of a conversation but the information that is generally on your telephone bill. which has been he would not to

be private, personal property by the supreme. >> so the senator from your state saying that these are fine. she is comfortable with that. but your view? are these legal? >> no, it's not. it's unconstitutional and with all due respect to senator feinstein, meda data matters. if you are a making a phone call to the suicide prevention hot line from the golden gate bridge they have a pretty good idea what you talk and. the information who you call and when you call is tremendously revealing about people and get into areas that can and are protected by the fourth amendment. >> it's been said with social media, all of the record, the online activity, many of us undertake, it's already out there, though? >> people want control over where their information goes. if they choose to share it in a public source, that's one thing. this is about private information. this is about information that people have chosen to share with a restricted audience and people don't want the government creating a digital dossier about

everything they've done and everyone they've spoken with. >> just talking about phone records with the prism program, saying transactional and you're saying it could end up being more. what can the balance be? >> first of all that balance is a false dichotomy. privacy is essential to security. having greater privacy you give people greater security. we saw the failings of the report chinese hacking into google using law enforcement access. the very access that allowed for law enforcement was the whole that created lots of breached security in people's accounts. >> over 1,400 pieces of information were used in the president's daily briefing's that might show that this information is valuable? >> well, were e haven't seen much proof it has been used to thwart attack, but, remember, one of the things we want to

protect and defend, what the president sworn to defend, is the united states constitutional. the values that this country lives by. weekend "can't throw away those values in a moment to be cared. >> thank you so much today. >> thank you. up next, the army suspends a two-star general accused of not reporting or investigating sexual assault claims just as political pressure builds today to crack down on abuse in the military. chris christie calls for a special election to replace the late lautenberg's seat. he's facing criticism. we talk to the author who wrote the book on the governor. and i'm working every day. ♪ ♪ i'm a hard, hard worker and i'm saving all my pay. ♪ ♪ if i ever get some money put away, ♪ ♪ i'm going to take it all out and celebrate. ♪ ♪ i'm a hard, hard worker... ♪ membership rallied millions of us on small business saturday to make shopping small, huge. this is what membership is.

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[ female announcer ] today, talk to your doctor (girl) w(guy) dive shop.y? (girl) diving lessons. (guy) we should totally do that. (girl ) yeah, right. (guy) i wannna catch a falcon! (girl) we should do that. (guy) i caught a falcon. (guy) you could eat a bug. let's do that. (guy) you know you're eating a bug. (girl) because of the legs. (guy vo) we got a subaru to take us new places. (girl) yeah, it's a hot spring. (guy) we should do that. (guy vo) it did. (man) how's that feel? (guy) fine. (girl) we shouldn't have done that. (guy) no. (announcer) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. and a good sunday to you. i'm richard lui in for craig melvin. new information on the surveillance program and new reaction from lawmakers as well. that debates heats up. also ahead -- >> until you see justice being done, until you see co