where are the jobs? >> thank you, mr. speaker, where are the jobs? >> mr. president, where are the jobs? >> our businesses have created nearly 7 million new jobs over the past 32 months. >> the construction elevator confidence in the economy is climbing to new levels thanks to the grit and the determination of american people, folks are starting to come back. >> ordinary folks, they do their jobs. the notion our elected leadership can't do the same thing is mind-boggling. >> you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth? >> we in the republican conference remain committed to emphasizing working families? >> they took our jobs. >> are we serious? >> this week, we will be repealing obama care. >> you blew it. >> that's who the republicans are. >> it needs to stop. >> you no he what, we're going back to work. ♪ good evening. welcome to "the ed show."

i'm joy reed in for ed schultz. "the guardian" newspaper in london has released the self-dub described leaker. >> they are looking at 1 billion phone calls a day is what i read in the press. >> it indicates how vast and massive the nsa is in terms of sweeping up all forms of communication. >> my main concern is that americans don't know the extent to which they are being surveiled. >> people are concerned about this mountain of data that you have. >> if everybody knew the phone numbers were being kept by the nsa, maybe the terrorist would start using pony express. >> let me quote rush limbaugh, my beloved. it is not line colonel sanders

is collecting this information. >> this is what we objected to. what our founding fathers partly fought the revolution over. the nsa is overshadowing more important issues like gun control. on friday, a man armed with with an assault rifle killed five people in california. he fired hundreds of rounds before being shot and killed by police inside the library. this is one of many shootings that happen in our country all the time. what is congress doing to solve the problem? nothing. this could be why only 6% of voters think congress is doing a good job compared to 64% who rate its performance as poor. another reason the numbers are low, jobs and the economy. americans have been very clear. they care about job creation. they want washington to be 100% focused on fixing the economy. believe it or not, even republicans know this. that's why house majority leader, eric cantor, had this to

say on tuesday. >> you hear a lot about the desire for the taxpayers and citizens of this country, for congress, for washington, for the white house to be focused on jobs and the economy. >> hold it right there, mr. canter. your party has spent the past several years trying to repeal obama care and curtail voting rights. the white house has put forth a jobs bill you won't even consider. no thanks to republicans, the u.s. economy added 175,000 jobs in may. overall, we have seen 39 straight months of private sector growth under president obama totalling 6.9 new jobs. job losses under george w. bush. the blue bars start when president obama took office. how much better could we have done if republicans spent more time working on the economy rather than blocking the president. so far, john boehner's 113th

congress hasn't brought a single jobs bill to the house floor. they have been focused on one thing, trying to hurt president obama's immanly with these so-called scandals. even during there so-called solution for america jobs conference, aeric cantor couldnt help himself. >> house republicans remain to fulfill our obligation in light of the abuse of trust reflected in the actions of the irs and elsewhere throughout the administration. >> there has been anabuse of trust on the part of this administration toward the american people. all of this has occur, specially at the irs is something that strikes americans as completely unacceptable. it is the obama irs. here, you have a neutral instrument of government like the irs being used to go after

political opponents. that's not what we do in american. >> cantor spent 32 seconds talking about jobs during the jobs press conference. that is a great-looking banner behind him. cantor offered no tangible solutions to create a job. he did spend 2:15 talking about the scandals. now, during president obama's first term, republicans obstructed and damaged the economy to try to deny the president a second term. now, they are using these so-called scandals to slow progress. the american people are sick of it and they want congress to get back to work. get your cell phones out. i do want to know what you think. what's more important to you, scandals or jobs? you can text "a" for scandals and "b" for jobs to 62422 or go

to our block at edmsnbc.com. now, i am joined by ari melber, joan walsh and jonathan alter. >> do republicans believe that they can run out the clock on the 2014 election, focus on white house scandals and conversely, is the white house worried that's exactly what they are going to do? >> that is the state of play now. the only language they understand are election results and pressure from constituents. the election results, for instance, are why there is less gridlock on immigration reform. they are moving toward some kind of deal. this is a story that i try to

tell. there was 71% of latinos that voted for obama. the republican party understands why they can't succeed in the future if they can't cut that margin. that's why there is progress on that. on jobs, they didn't get the message. the president needs new strategies for putting it to them. >> come to an infrastructure conference if you want anything built in your district. he needs to go over their heads and say to the people in their states and districts, do you not want your roads and bridges fixed and go and visit them and put pressure on them the way he is starting to do on their obstruction on judges. so he must join this fight. as i explain, i try to pull back the curtain on what happened over the last couple of years. he got reelected. he can fight. >> is the white house a victim of the economy's success?

under president obama, we have seen a rebound in jobs. it may not be great but the economy is growing. so the republicans are less interested in talking about that issue. is more difficult for the president to go out and mention on jobs, because people see it happening. >> it is a really weak recovery. so many people in polls, so many people still care with the economy. so many people are still reporting that they or a loved one has lost a job, that someone is in foreclosure. there is still a lot of pain. it is just that the republicans don't care about those people. >> they don't. >> that is not their constituency. they are more amenable to doing something on immigration reform. even there, you are seeing the far right of the caucus bull them back. ran paul says i am the conduit through which a deal must be made. i love that idea. >> he will also be suing.

>> he is very pleased with himself. >> when rand paul is pretending that he is the voice of reason and perhaps conciliation on immigration control, you know on immigration reform, you know this bill is in some trouble. >> probably trouble in the house too. ari, we do have this situation where you have the rand pauls who are probably looking to run for president. you have a lot of pre-presidential 2016 politics mixed in with 2014 politics. it seems like we have a recipe for absolutely nothing getting done. >> the challenge for the white house is to try to build penalties in to this system. jonathan was talking about what moves, in terms of the pressure. i went and counted all the house votes that have been held this year. 211 votes. by my count, there was only one related to jobs at all, sort of returning veterans jobs program. so 1 out of 211 is really bad, really, really bad. a failing grade. what the white house has to do is really build that message and basically say, we see you.

we see what you are up to. we see you can't get anything on the floor. i'm not talking about what they have to pass. you can't get the floor votes. in the senate, you have a shadow of filibuster. that has to be stronger for those that want to criticize and make some pressure. the president is having a conversation with the american people. it got big-footed by the nsa stuff. he is trying to constantly talk about jobs in his jobs bill. republicans are having a totally acce separate conversation about barack obama being a monster. this doesn't sound like a whole lot of forward movement on the most important issue to americans. >> the press has a short attention span. >> and is more interested in the republican conversation. >> what are you talking about? >> scandals have a short shelf life. even if they are ones that

people like me care b the press scandal, the nsa scandal, a month from now, they are not going to be dominating the headlines. >> republicans will come up with a new one. >> they have to get traction on certain things. at a certain point, you can bring some pressure to bear. another important thing to remember when progressives get depressed, look at the glass half full. imagine if mitt romney and paul ryan had been elected, the story that i'm telling in my book is compelling. we dodged a bullet once. we can dodge a bullet again. >> i want to give joan the last word. >> i think you are being a little bit too op ttimistic abo the short attention span of the press. they get distracted by bright, shiny objects. >> they creatively worded

e-mails. >> what are the consequence. we are not near the election. >> it is time off the clock. >> it is exactly that. >> time off the clock matters. >> if you get your forces aligned properly, if you light a fire under the members with the kind of communication harry is talking about, you can make things happen. what bothers me is a sense of fatigue about trying, thinking new ways. >> we are going to continue more about one of the bright, shining objects that is sort of making news. when we come back, we will talk about that latest bright, shiny object. joan, jonathan, ari, please stay with us. remember to answer tonight's question at the bottom of the screen. share your thoughts on twitter at edshow. up next, the man that says he is the source of the documents from the nsa data program. he shares the reason for the leaks. our reaction to the latest news coming up. ♪ c'est aujourd'hui ♪

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an interview with the source of the leaked documents in the nsa program was posted by "the guardian." edward snowden describes his decision to release information from an undisclosed location in hong kong. >> when you are in positions of privileged access like a systems administrator for these sort of intelligence communities agencies, you are exposed to a lot more information on a broader scale than the average employee. because of that, you see things that may be disturbing but over the course of the normal person's career, you would only see one or two of these instances. when you see everything, you see them on a more frequent basis. you recognize some of these things are actually abuses. when you talk to people about them in a place like this where this is the normal state of business. people dent not to take them very seriously and move on from

them. over time, that awareness of wrongdoing sort of builds up and you feel compelled to talk about it. the more you talk about it, the more you are ignored. the more you are told it is not a problem until eventually, you realize that these things need to be determined by the public, not by somebody who is simply hired by the government. snowden went on to describe why he thought this program was dangerous to every single american. >> even if you are not doing anything wrong, you are being watched and recorded. the storage capability of these systems increases every year consistently by orders of magnitude. to where it is getting to the point you don't have to have done anything wrong. you simply have to eventually fall under suspicious from somebody, even by a wrong call. they can then use this system to go back in time and scrutinize every decision you have ever made, every friend you have ever discussed something with and attack you on that basis to sort

of derive suspicious from an innocent life and paint anyone in the context of a wrongdoer. >> i am joined by ari melber, joan walsh and jonathan alter. i will stipulate i didn't think there was anything that newsworthy in the interview other than he is in hong kong. that's where he is hiding out. the interview wasn't contentious. it was an interview by a supporter of his, a sort of soft interview. i thought in that answer he got to what the potential real sort of worry is about in these programs, which is they are collecting all this huge amount of data. an inefficient way to do law enforcement in the near term. if you ever wanted to go back and look at something someone did before, you can string together the bit of someone's life. >> i think the question is whether there is the proper oversight and accountability. the history of expansive surveillance in america is an ugly history. it was the fbi counter intelligence program that was

used to is your vail martin luther king and the black panthers and muhammad ali, anyone who is a critic of stop and frisk, understands why many of us have such a premium, we put such importance on having systems to check police power. >> can i go back on one thing before you go further? this was first disclosed by james reisen in 2006. i thought, warrantless wiretapping, not a good thing. what people on the liberal and libertarian side said, if you want to do this, get a court order. here we have the supposed scandal, which was the leak of the court order. now, we've had the government go and get the court order. we say, wait a minute, that is not good enough. >> no court order. >> it is one the people of good will can disagree on. i was calling it the time for individual court orders, case by case.

the administration under bush and now under obama through the nsa has implied to congress that these were relatively individualized. they, for example, said, in 2012, there were 200 or so business record requests. the reason why this is really significant as a leak, i would agree it doesn't seem to be illegal under what we understand about fisa. one record request reaches millions of business phone lines, millions of verizon customer lines. then, when we look at the history of what happens when you don't have individual oversight, when it has ballooned, yes, with the cooperation of both parties that led us to the war in iraq. the fact that the national security state is bipartisan doesn't make me feel any better. the history, the reason this is important, even though republicans have clearly been self-interested and clearly opportunistic in the way they approached it, none of it speaks

to the same thing we talk about when we look at stop and frisk and the way criminal disparities work. all these work together in the fact that we need individualized oversight. >> i am glad you missed the stop and frisk piece. in the fiscal world, the nondata world, you pick up 40 black guys because one black guy robbed the store and you have the victim identify them in a lineup or go through and stop and frisk every black guy in brooklyn, because you want to find one. there is this physical metadata collection. the court order that was demanded by the left is what happened in this instance. you and i have talked about this before. i am kind of struck by the extent to which this guy, mr. snowden, and in general, those who have been critical of the administration, have attempted to get the barack obama administration to be the administration they perceive when he ran. they say if he was going to be this, if he isn't this, we are going to act. i am going to do a leak or something else to force the

administration's hand to mold them into the obama administration i wanted. >> i see an element of that, joy. i think these are important issues. i think what ari said was true. i don't think even members of congress knew what these court orders were saying. >> the intelligence committees did. they were briefed. >> they were briefed and some of them were quite anxious about it and wanted to talk about it. i get a little peeved with the president. we are having this debate because of that's leaks. if you don't like or trust snowden and you want to impeach his character, whatever, that's fine. i am not saying you are doing that. people are doing that. ha he has access to the kinds of secrets you are talking about, the breadth of this dragnet. >> has there ever been an incident where the fbi has produced the court orders?

not only do we want a court order but a publicly-induced court order to describe the law enforcement in process. >> it is a secret court. barack obama's position on this has not change the. i went on msnbc debating glen greenwald at the time in 2007. obama took the position it should be legal, through a court. the law is important. what everyone thinks of the merits of this snookiping progr. the law is important. this is why this whistle blower, mr. snowden, he acted out of conscience. if he did come back to the united states, he would need to be arrested. otherwise, the law doesn't mean anything. where people like me were getting upset was when the reporting of the leak was criminalized or the effort by

journalists was criminalized. the leaker, if you are working for the cia as he did or the nsa, you are taking a oath. if you break the oath, you have to suffer the consequences. that's why he is in hong kong. you have to say in his defense, he has decided he will never live in the united states again. that's a big decision to make when your 29 years old. >> at the same time, ari, i come back to this again, i think there was an attempt to portray this as being exactly what george w. bush did, something outside the bounds of the law, when, in fact, the law at requested, he voted for the 2007 act that made this go through the fisa court. >> there is a clear difference. what we had under george w. bush was warrantless surveillance of the con ten. several senior republicans, including james comey and robert mueller threatened to design. i am not a big fan of the

"huffington post" running a merge of bush and obama faces every six months. having said that, those of us that look at the treatment of marginalized community, police abuse and national security abuse, haven aacute awareness to not have individualized oversight. >> a different conversation. >> it is not the same at stop and frisk. >> let me just finish my point, john. my concern is that when you look at the fisa court, which was ornlly built to do individual oversight. sometimes after the fact. put the wiretap down. within 24 or 72 hours, run it through. it was case by case. the point isn't to say it is the exact same as mayor bloomberg stop and frisk is a literal surveillance. >> if we don't individually oversove oversee it, we leave that temptation for the next president. the fisa court was set up in '78. the first time they ever turned

down a request was 1999. we had gradual intrusions to where we had physical searches added. this has always been a court that essentially rubber stamped whatever the security was. i have a big problem with that and a big problem with the slippery slope between spying on foreigners, which the nsa was set up to do. this is what their mission is. suddenly, we are starting to spy more on people. >> these are phone calls and international trend. >> you want them to have the leeway to go after the bad guys. you don't want to create a situation where we can't do that. we need clear, more public words of the road. >> one is we are not going to send all our court orders to brazil. >> somebody else said this. when you are balancing freedom and security, you want them to collect as little as possible to be effective. you want them to tell us as much as they possibly can in a mock

sich democracy. i think that has shifted. i'm not holding barack obama personally responsible above all presidents to make this happen him sieve. now that we know this, we need to have more transparency. >> obama does try at least -- i try put these in historical context. imagine if romney was president, he would be saying this guy should be shot at dawn. obama is at least wrestling with the balance. >> i think when we are having this conversation, i think we all need to have a conversation about the information we are proactively sharing with corporate america. the other side, the flip side of this story, we are either not knowingly or freely sharing much more data about ourselves with corporations that are doing god knows what with it. i think that's a conversation too. hopefully, a whole big conversation. a multi-faceted

metaconversation. >> that's the word of the day. >> ari mel ber, joan walsh and jonathan alter, thank you so much. a tea partyer in texas spills the beans on the gop outreach. you won't believe this one. plus, would you let this man be responsible for your children's education? teachers are standing up and saying no. our plants [ both ] we're foodies. [ both laughing ] but our plants were starving. [ man ] we love to eat. we just didn't know that our plants did, too. then we started using miracle-gro liquafeed every two weeks. now our plants get the food they need while we water. dinner's ready. come and get it. no one goes hungry in this house. so they're bigger, healthier, and more beautiful. guaranteed. with miracle-gro anyone can have a green thumb. and a second helping. [ both laughing ] when you feed your plants... everyone grows with miracle-gro. if you have high cholesterol,

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[ male announcer ] moving object detection. ♪ blind spot warning. ♪ lane departure warning. safety, down to an art. the nissan altima with safety shield technologies. nissan. innovation that excites. ♪ welcome back to "the ed show." the first question is from florence whitfield. why is eric holder hounded by the right? florence, that's a really good question. i think the reason he is hounded is because he is a proxy for barack obama and because he is the chief law enforcement official in the country. he is the center of all their fears, whether it is on gun control, protecting voting rights from all the people that

want to follow black voters around and make sure they are not voting too much for obama. all that gets concentrated in eric holder. our next question comes from steve wallace. voting rights section 5, will the supreme court uphold or strike it down? this actually is a question that really kind of makes me nervous. i don't have a lot of trust in the five majority members of the supreme court. i think if you see something on affirmative action that looks like it is going down, then you may see the voting rights act at least upheld in part, because john roberts doesn't want to be a villain. he will try to make at least one of those two laws stand in large part. a lot depends on which comes first. if you see affirmative action going down, you can have some hopes that the guts of the voting right will stand. that's my answer. thanks for the answer and we will be right back. you have the potential to do more in business.

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welcome back to the ed show. jury trial for george zimmerman, accused of second-degree murder, begins tomorrow. prosecutors say he profiled and followed the 17-year-old. zimmerman says he shot him after he physically attacked him. preliminary hearings focused on audio evidence, specifically on four audio experts that describe their methods and their conclusions about a 911 call in which someone can be screaming for help. zimmerman listened as the call was replayed during the hearing. >> does he look hurt?

>> i can't see him. i don't want to go out there. >> does he keep yelling help? >> what is your number? >> that sound of the final moments of the confrontation between george zimmerman and trayvon martin and the question of, who was screaming for help, zimmerman or martin, could be crucial in the case? defense and prosecution experts disagree on whether there is enough audio to draw a conclusion at all. joining me to discuss the case and what we can expect from the trial is kendall coffey, former district attorney for florida and now an attorney in private practice. always great to talk to you. >> thanks for having me on. >> last weekend going into yesterday, these audio experts that testified, two on the prosecution side, twoen o the defense, disagreed about the methodology, whether or not you can draw a conclusion on who was screaming on that tape, if you have less than 14 seconds of

audio. how indecisive will that be in the case and what does the judge have to go on? can she just allow only one side audio experts in and exclude those of the other? >> it is difficult to overstate the importance of this evidence. the prosecution doesn't have a truly overwhelming case. this he need this evidence. the other witnesses to the scene apart from george zimmerman only have small glimpses or heard small pieces of what happened. more pieces to the puzzle to create questions rather than answers. this is vitally important evidence. the judge has to consider whether the methodology of the prosecution experts has sufficient scientific acceptance to be allowed. if the judge allows it in, you can be darn sure the defense experts will be challenging the prosecution testimony every step of the way, accusing them of junk science, saying it is not reliable. this 345irmay, in terms of the pre-trial rulings, may be one of

the most important of all. >> the other thing i think is going to be really important that mostly people, including yourself have said, that is going to be key is jury selection. they have to get down to six jurors and six alternates. how important do you think jury selection is going to be to the outcome of the trial? >> it is always important in any trial. it is specially important here. among the minichallenges, is finding jurors who don't already have pre-existing beliefs in a community that's been drenched in title waves for pre-trial publicity. the law doesn't require an empty mind but only an open one. what the judge has to determine is how much exposure to pre-trial publicity is too much. the end of the day, what some judges do, joy ann, is simply say, if the juror can say, i will be fair and impartial, whatever i've read, i will judge the case only on the merits submitted to trial, based on that, a lot of judges will deny

a cause challenge. it is going to be very difficult, one of the reasons why jury selection could go on for weeks. >> each side can essentially challenge jurors outright. they can say, i exclude this juror without explaining why and then they can exclude for cause. can you explain that a little bit? >> you have an unlimited number of for cause challenges that will center mostly on pre-trial publicity. others could say it is too much of a hardship for an individual juror or a juror has some connection to some of the parties or attorneys in the case. the other category of jury challenges is something called peremptory challenges, automatic strikes. each side up to now is indicated to get ten per side. remember this, joy ann, in the current law, if one side is seen as using these peremptory strikes in order to exclude members of a particular minority. that can be challenged.

there is a whole protocol on a process for doing so. it is entirely possible that some of those issues may also arise over the next two weeks. >> there has been some discussion about the racial composition of the jury. this case has also become divisive in terms of political ideology, left and right. is it possible for a prosecutor or a defense attorney to attempt to exclude someone based on ideology? can they even ask about political ideology? >> i think they absolutely can and they should. i have no doubt that prosecutors are not going to be crazy about having people on the jury that absolutely love guns an absolutely believe in stand your ground law. that's going to be something that will be developed through jury questioning. like a lot of clear divides in attitudes about this case, the attitude toward gun and gun ownership is one of the big ones. it will have impact in jury selection. >> in your experience in trying

these cases in florida, how long does it take? do you literally have to question all 500 members of the jury pool. is it up to the point where you get 12 and then you stop? how long could it take? >> different judges has different procedures. what would generally happen, a large group, not all 500, a large group would be brought in for general questions. that might be conducted by the judge. at some point, groups will be asked questions by individual attorneys to drill down on it. it is projected to go two weeks. pre-trial publicity. strong attitudes and divisions within the community. this is going to be one of the most difficult jury selection processes that ever took place in florida. >> that is maybe the understatement of the day. thank you so much. i am sure we will be talking to you throughout the trial. really appreciate you being here. >> thank you. >> well, george zimmerman has sued nbc universal, the parent company for this network, for defamation. the company has strongly denied his allegations

up next, a tea party republican accidentally tells the truth about who should be voting for his party. you want answers. >> i want answers. >> i want the truth. >> you can't handle the truth. >> our pretender comes clean after the break. first, tonight in our survey, i asked you, what's more important to you, the scandals or jobs? 7% say scandals, 93% say jobs. both tylenol and bayer back & body are proven to be effective pain relievers tylenol works by blocking pain signals to your brain bayer back & body's dual action formula includes aspirin, which blocks pain at the site. try the power of bayer back & body.

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when we take away the late fees and penalty rate? no one misses them. the citi simplicity card is the only card that never has late fees, a penalty rate, or an annual fee. ever. go to citi.com/simplicity to apply. everything is bigger in texas, including pretender. tea party leader, kenny manual son took an approach to voter outreach questions that was honest but not too encouraging. >> what are the republicans doing to get black people to

vote? >> well, i'm going to be real honest with you, the republican party doesn't want black people to vote if they are going to vote 9-1 for democrats. >> tell us how you really feel. better yet, let's see how the gop is supposed to feel. >> we care about every voter, the rnc cannot and will not write off any demographic, community, or region of this country. >> rice previs republican autopsy. >> if i would have said who do you think the founders of the naacp think they were republicans or democrats. would everybody know they were all republicans? you know more than i know. i don't mean that to be insulting. i don't know what you know.

i am trying to find out what the connection is. >> ken emanuelson words tell a very different story. they mix no bones about mixing racial division with their politics. if the gop wants to pretend their feelings are any different than emanuelson's, they can keep on pretending. the thing i learned from my parents, life isn't fair. you don't have to accept that it isn't fair and shrug your shoulders and say, that's how it is. it should be fair. the most powerful idea in the universe, the basis of all progress, the eangine of everything that's good. the movement for marriage equality is to look for the status quo and look at unfairness and justice and say it is not okay for it to be this way.

>> the key to measuring is to test. i have heard every argument we should not test. how can you determine whether a child can read at grade level if you don't test? for those who claim we are teaching the test, uh-huh, we

are teaching a child to read so he or she can pass the test. testing is important to solve problems. >> finally, tonight, george w. bush left tonight, george w. bush left us with a strug eneconomy and two unfunded wars but his legacy might be no child left behind. >> get it right! get it right! >> teachers, counsellors, principals an parents staged this massive rally in albany to protest standardized testing. educators are realizing that tests like this work. teachers in seattle successfully boycotted a regional standardized test and won. >> you can try to implement the map test here at garfield, but if it's wrong for students, it won't happen. the focus group has spoken.

it's the teachers. it's the principals. it's the student. the focus group has spoken. >> shortly after that rally. washington state made the standardized test optional for that district. this is a game of inches. teachers across the country say it is worth their career to speak out against teaching against the test. president obama announced funding for faster internet access in schools. >> imagine educators spending fewer hours teaching to a test, more time helping kids learn in new and innovative ways. >> and joining me now is john nichols, coauthor of the book and writer for nation magazine. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> you were at the rally that add huge, massive turn out. what were they calling for. >> they were calling for a moratorium on testing. these are teachers, counsellors,

own surprising number of parents and students came. they say, look, we know we have to test sometimes. we may not like it, but we've got to do it. they are saying there is such a rapid implementation of new testing that we often have situations where children are being tested before the teachers have begun to know how to teach. not teach the test but to give them the broad information they need. it is a mess. and it is a mess across the country. we are hearing horror stories from texas, georgia, upstate new york. stories of children in hospital beds who are told they have to take the test. because the school districts feel so pressured to put these on. the school superintendent in montgomery county maryland has said, this is insanity. he is suggesting a three-year moratorium. >> you are talking about a tri-parte kind of test. teachers tried everything to calm them down, to relax them, because kids were stressed out

because they feel responsible for their teacher's future, right, if they fail. then the teachers whose pay is tied to this, their advancement is tied to it. their school can lose money because of it. and this whole pressurizede environment. my mother was a teacher and she didn't believe the testing advanced learning. >> and there is research that suggests it doesn't. there a school in new york where fourth grade kids were studying deep no novels and history books. but then today suddenly break off and focus on the test. and the question is, it is not, do we get rid of the test. but it is, can we find the proper balance. and if we haven't found it, you're only a third grader once. i have a 9-year-old. you are only a third grader once. if we haven't found the proper balance, let's put it on hold, get it right, before we mess up this year, next year and the year after for kids who don't

have it the year over. >> right. we are giving up art for children to take the test. there are a lot of waivers for no child left behind. but but there is a lot of advancing, more testing, sort of more rigorous testing and financial testing to do more of this kind of learning. >> this is not democrat or republican or liberal or conservative. when you get into kids, and you get into parent thinking about their kids and teachers thinking about how to make it work, you cross a lot of lines and what we are hearing from very conservative school districts, you hear a real discomfort. >> ted kennedy coauthored this no child left behind monstrosity with george w. bush. why is there a believe, whether it is democrats ors republicans? >> well, i think they said, let's try standardized testing.

maybe we can raise scores. give incentive. but also, there is a lot of money to be made in standardized testing. and i'm not saying teddy kennedy fell for this or even george bush. >> who is making money off this stuff? >> there are big testing corporations. corporations like pearson. i was quite struck by the number of people who had signs that mentioned that corporation. >> there is a mention about neil bush, and not saying that the bush family had a financial gain necessarily, but there is a business growing up. not just around the testing but training kids to take the test. there a whole industry for that too. >> at a time when schools are cutting arts education -- i met a girl up in albany. she led 500 students out of her school to protest all of the extra curricular programs being cut.

and boy, if we have all of this money for testing, we ought to have money for arts and gym. >> you said you have a third grader. do you think we need national standards that go across state lines? >> we have to be careful about that. i come from teacher family. my grandmother started teaching at 16 in a one-room school in blue river, wisconsin. i was raised to believe that teaching is an art form and that you reach kids in all sorts of different ways. so i understand the desire for national standards but i would say, let's understand that teachers are very special and how they connect to something we should celebrate and emphasize before we do anything else. >> john nichols, that book is called "dollarocracy". my mother was each teacher and my godmother was a teacher. teachers are very special. i appreciate it. that is "the ed show." ed will be back next week at

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