because i have to mol phi around everyone around and me and let them know i won't rob them. no matter how good i am at that i still know i may end up dead. that does it for "the cycle." martin it's yours. >> tourre, you're a teddy bear. thank you so much. if you wouldn't mind, please send your colleague ari melber over here because we want his opinion on the nsa. the president, you invited a debate on civil liberties and national security. and now you've got one. >> you can't have 100% security, 100% privacy and zero inconvenience. >> when did the government suddenly become our psychoex-girlfriend. >> people want their government to do this. >> they certainly don't want to find out after an attack that something could have been done. >> don't troll through a billion phone records.

>> the notion that we're trolling through everyone's e-mails is on its face absurd. we couldn't do it even if we wanted to. >> green walt says he's got it all and is an expert on the program. he doesn't have a clue. >> his massive spying program. >> who is edward snowden. >> he's a hunted man right now. >> i'm no different than anybody else. we've got a cia station just up the road. i'm sure they're going to be very busy. >> this 29-year-old holed up in some hotel room in hong kong. >> the nsa has filed a crimes report on this. >> there are some tradeoffs on this. i welcome this debate. ♪ >> we begin with one of the most significant leaks in united states history. and the 29-year-old tech specialist unveiling himself as its source. former cia employee edward snowden says that he's the man who leaked information about a

vast security agency surveillance program. he told british newspaper the guardian" that it was an act of conscience. >> i'm no different from anybody else. i don't have special skills. i'm just another guy who sits there day to day in the office watching what's happening and goes, this is something that's not our place to decide. the public needs to decide whether these programs and policies are right or wrong. >> going by the code name verax or truth teller in latin, snowden says he copy the top secret documents from his job at an nsa station in hawaii working with defense contractor booz allen hamilton. a company that's won billions of dollars in secret government contracts in the past decade. telling his supervisor that he needed to be away for a few weeks to seek treatment for epilepsy, he hopped a may 20th flight to hong kong where he is said to be holed up, seeking political asylum.

possibly from iceland or ecuador. snowden told the guardian he has carefully considered the consequences of his actions. >> i could be you know representdered by the cia. i could have people come after me. they could pay off triads or any of their agents or assets. we've got a cia station just up the road and the consulate here in hong kong. i'm sure they're going to be very busy for the next week. and that's a fear i'll live under for the rest of my life, however long that happens to be. >> if that sounds a little like a pulp spy thriller consider a degree of his treatment may rest on public perception. for his part, director of national intelligence james clapper utterly rejected those who would hail him as a hero in an exclusive interview with andrea mitchell. >> i think we all feel profoundly offended by that. this is someone who for whatever reason has chosen to violate a

sacred trust for this country, the damage that these revelations incur are huge. >> with federal authorities launching an investigation, the white house refused to comment on snowden in particular. but welcomed a discussion about the balance between the nation's security and privacy concerns. >> he believes, as he said on friday we are finding that appropriate balance but he welcomes a debate. certainly if that were to lead to building a consensus around changes, he would look at that. >> that debate is only growing more heated with word that the full house membership will have the opportunity to attend a briefing on nsa surveillance tomorrow afternoon. we have breaking news and for that we go to nbc news national investigative reporter michael isikoff joining us from washington. what have you got? >> there's some new figures, martin that really show just how dramatically the government has used this controversial and

obscure provision of the patriot act section 215ing to obtain all these records that we're now hearing about. remember, it was that 215 provision that was the basis for that verizon court order that was disclosed by guardian that opened the door to this entire debate. it turns out the justice department had just recently filed a report with the congress saying that in last year, it had used that provision 212 times. that is a 900% increase from the number of times it used it in 2009 when president obama took office. and just to take you back a little further when this patriot act provision was first enacted, there was great controversy at the time because people feared it was so broadly worded you could obtain library records by

invoking this provision. and then attorney general ashcroft released the statement in 2003 to tamp down the controversy and he said in that public statement the number of times section 215 has been used to date is zero. and he underscored it by putting a big zero next to the statement. so we've gone from public statements assuring the public that this provision has never been used at all to these new court orders, 212 times last year including orders so broad they include the release of millions of phone records of individual -- of americans' phone calls. >> that's an enormous increase. thank you, mike. let's get right to our panel. steve clemens editor at large for the atlantic joining us from miami. here with me in new york fresh off his regular gig is ari melber. ari, there are dearcally divergent views of the ethics behind mr. snowden's decision to

leak. it's clear what he did was illegal. what happens to him now? >> what happens to him having made this confession, this rather dramatic public confession in the legal standing they will still have to put together a case and refer that investigation to the department of justice. there be diplomat sit involved. >> james clapper has said there's an investigation going on. >> it won't be his job. he will have to turn that over to the justice department which handles all reports of unauthorized leaks although this one being a very significant one. and then they can try to get a sealed indictment or a public grand jury indictment. they can seem to have him extradited to the united states. all of those things being a sequential process. >> do you think that's likely there will be pursuance of this individual if terms of extradition if he's overseas? >> based on past cases and the intensity of the pursuit of leakers who had not been identified, it would seem they would definitely do everything to go after him. i say ta carefully because i am not privy to rt roing out of the

justice department regarding their plans. but yes, they went after bradley man hog had not released any information about himself. they found him and that he pursuing a life sentence and court-martial against him which i've been critical of because i think it would be an overzealous prosecution although he did apparently leak materials and should probably get punished for that. >> steve, we heard edward say he's no different from are anyone else. he didn't finish high school. he's discharged from the army after breaking his legs in a training accident. he started at the nsa as a security guard before being hired by the cia. how does this individual along with some 12,000 others at bows , booz allen alone come to have access to this type of information? >> astonishing from where you sit. if you're in washington, d.c. and you are active in national security and intelligence circles, what we've seen happen in places like the subpoena a

and the broad different bureaucracies that comprise the intelligence community is many of them have been privatized. contracting in the intelligence world is very lucrative. and so you've got large operations, dan nan priest did a beautiful job in the washington post last year documenting much of the growth of the intelligence industrial complex. and so it's not surprising at all that someone like ed yard snowden would be part of that process. i have known air force personnel working in the national geospace needle agency in their air force uniform and retired and got the same job as a private contractor working for one of many of the various defense contractors. this is not unusual. >> steve, just after just three months, this individual had that kind of comprehensive access? >> well, that is remarkable. you know, someone needs to look at this. when we see john kerry unable to get people vetted for jobs in the department of state. >> right. >> and you look at somebody who moves at lightning speed through a clearance and vetting process for a job, you know, holding

america's most treasured secrets, that is an unusual thing. so that's something that does deserve a lot more scrutiny. >> but it goes to the point just raised which is often these people are coming out of government service and if you're in the clandestine service, there may never be a public paper trail what else he has done. it goes to the overclassification point. sometimes these issues are presented, as well. you're either for security or for civil liberties. no, when there's 4.9 million security clearances and when anything of any value or potential embarrassment to the government in many cases is classified, then you are asking for a security and surveillance state that is almost eating itself. that goes separate from the civil liberties concerns that i have raised. >> i was slightly surprised by this individual's reference to the fact that he fears for his life and that an he may be pursued that he's gone to hong kong because in 1997, hong kong was a british protect rat.

we just had the chinese president visiting on american soil. would the chinese government not be minded to assist by providing access to this individual in hong kong? >> well, that could happen. he could also be potentially taken in in a legal process where according to treaty he would be returned. it wouldn't even have to necessarily reach what the chinese government policies are. the point though not relevant to the president who has talked about using the law to deal with it, but there have been people including some republican who have spoken about how people like julian assange should be assassinated. whatever you think of this individual, the fact that he's responding to a climate where leakers or potential whistleblowers, not saying he's one yet but where leakers are targeted in that way, he's speaking to singh that is a real problem and that includes statements by u.s. government officials. >> receive. >> china and the united states are trying to improve relations right now. let's just deal with this. when we've had high profile dissidents in china before

whether i i have hillary clinton have tried to extract, china she is these people as sets. if he have returned in some sort of arrangement between hong kong, china will extract something from the united states as part of that arrangement. this won't be something that is solved kick will i in my view. >> steve and ari melber, thanks you for joining us this afternoon. coming up, the raging cajun himself, james carville makes his debut on this broadcast. we want to talk about the blundering speaker boehner and the house gop. so stay with us. it's monday. a brand new start. your chance to rise and shine. with centurylink as your trusted technology partner, you can do just that. with our visionary cloud infrastructure, global broadband network and custom communications solutions, your business is more reliable - secure - agile. and with responsive, dedicated support,

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immigration reform package. and while one republican snorkelly ayotte says she will now join democrats in supporting the bill, other members of the gop may attempt to load it down with unbearable anticipates particular with regard to border control that it collapses under the weight of the impossible. senate majority leader harry reid told univision he will not accept any such amendments. ultimately the question is whether any bill can make it through the rudderless power vacuum created by speaker john boehner in the republican-controlled house. on that point, senator rand paul has volunteered his services as a mediator. >> there needs to be a conduit. i am the conduit between conservatives in the house to don't want a lot of these things and more moderate people in the senate who do want these things. i'm trying to make immigration work but they have to come to me and they're going to have to work with me to make the bill

stronger if they want me to vote for it. >> joining us now is democratic strategist james carville. good afternoon. >> good afternoon to you. >> rand paul says he is the way the truth and the conduit that no reform shall pass but through him which is rather a vang role. i thought jesus christ was the mediator between god and man. can conservatives block this bill's ultimate passage? >> i think it's ironicing that john boehner who is like a crafty experienced republican has decided to sit this thing out and rand paul would basically within a couple of years in the united states senate is now front and center and declared himself the power broker of the republican party. i don't know if the republicans would go along with that, but i do think that it is indicative of the problems that they're having. and i'm anxious to see this whole thing unfold. >> ted cruz is another senator who's against this bill. he won't rule out a filibuster. in fact, he now smells a

conspiracy. take a listen to what he told jeff zelany. >> the path the white house is going down i bleen is designed for this bill to fail. it's designed for -- >> intentionally for politics. >> yes, because it's designed for it to sail through the senate and then crash in the house to let the president go and campaign in 2014 on this issue. >> now, cruz says in that interview that the president will be blamed if the bill fails. but which polls is cruz reading that say hispanics will blame the president if immigration reform passes? >> because cruz is -- look, rubio who is pushing this is running for president. >> right. >> rand paul who wants -- claims he wants to broker is running for president. cruz is opposing this is running for president. this is so lovely, you can't imagine how lovely it is. and by the way, if you're a republican running for president, you blame barack obama for everything because the

people who are going to vote in the iowa caucuses and the south carolina primary blame him for everything anyway. so that's actually good politics on cruz's part. >> so you think that these three ultimately are deliberately saying and an of theaging their positions purely in relation to 2016 and with no regard for the problems that the republican party has just experienced with 72% of hispanics voting for the democratic nominee for president? >> look, i don't want to go into people's vote is. but cruz does not wish rand paul well. and rand paul does not wish marco rubio we. you know what i mean? it's all kind of inside politics here. from a strict lit political point, a significant number of republicans say look, we've got get this thing through because we can't clobbered like this with the hispanic vote again and a lot of them say, why are you

doing this? the hispanics are not going to be for you anyway. the democrats will get credit as they should. they've been pushing this forever. you're going in the wrong direction. so you have a big huge fight in the republican party about this. and you can see where it's coming pr. >> it's remarkable. but doesn't this ultimately come down to the hapless speaker john boehner being able to corral the house gop? and is there any scenario where the final house bill is passed by a united democratic party with enough republicans? >> that's the only way it will probably pass. >> you can forget for the rest of this congressional session? >> i think that boehner right now who is actually kind of a decent guy. he's probably too sane to deal with house republicans. that's kind of a burden that he has. he possesses the burden of sanity in being the leader of the house republicans. but boehner is going to have to decide will he sacrifice his

speakership which will probably cost him the speakership if he decides to bring the bill up with a most unanimous democratic support and enough republicans to get it across the finish line. that's not going to sit well with majority of his caucus. >> sir, wouldn't that be the morally right thick for the speaker to do in these circumstances? >> well, i certainly think it's the morally right thing to do. but again, this is politics we're talking about here. you and i's definition of morality probably doesn't jehaw what ted cruz is telling about morality. look, i think if we have 13 million people in this country and we've got to have -- not only is it moral, it's common sense. it's a way that you kind of got to deal with the problem that you have. it's the aim way that ronald reagan dealt with it 1986, 1988. it's always sort of been there. soto you and i, it's not only

moral it's sane. but that's not what these guys kind of are looking at. that's not the vantage point they're looking at it from. boehner is you know, a man who has to make -- if this gets to the senate which is not clear it will survive a filibuster but assume it does, he's going to have to make hard decisions about how he does this and his future. they're not going to be easy. >> not at all. james carville, thank you so much for joining us today. stay with us. we have much more on the fate of mr. snowden and the reaction of the white house in today's top line. stay with us. >> you have a contractor that has been hired who is then hired this 29-year-old who is now holed up in some hotel room in hong kong claiming to be the defender of democracy somehow in the people's republic of china. we don't know the answers right now. >> identifying himself with bradley manning. how many simple ingredients

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jury selection began earlier today in the trial of george zirmman for the 2012 fatal shooting of 17-year-old trayvon martin. a charge to which he pled not guilty claiming self-defense. and we should note at the outset at that time defendant george zimmerman has sued nbcuniversal for defamation and the company strongly denied his allegations. the family of martin made a statement at the courthouse earlier today. >> we are relieved that the start of the trial is here with the jury selection. as we seek justice for our son trayvon. and we also seek a fair and impartial trial. >> meanwhile, robert zimmerman junior, the brother of the defendant, took an opportunity during a recess to answer some questions from the media during which he expressed his desire that this trial not take place at all. >> it's my suggestion that the state doesn't have a case.

they have gone on the record saying the state knows it has a weak case. i believe it's an improper charge all together. i wish they would withdraw it. i'm confident they're not going to meet their burden. >> of course, the trial will be happening at this point. we'll keep you informed about all the latest details every step of the way. stay with us. the day's top lines are coming up. [ man ] her parents didn't expect her dreams to be so ambitious. italy? oh, that's not good. [ man ] by exploring their options, they learned that instead of going to italy, they could use a home equity loan to renovate their yard and have a beautiful wedding right here while possibly increasing the value of their home. you and roger could get married in our backyard. it's robert, dad. [ female announcer ] come in to find the right credit options for your needs. because when people talk, great things happen. because when people talk, hoo-hoo...hoo-hoo. hoo-hoo hoo.

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argument. >> i'm just another guy who sits there day to day in the office and goes, this is something that's not our place to decide. the public needs to decide. >> today with the computers you press a button, you get some brilliant computer geek and all of a sudden everything's exposed. >> this is the way totalitarian states are created. >> the very right wing mentality. the government should know everything that citizens and a free society are doing. >> there won't be a jew alive on the planet today if hitler had this technology. >> i came in with a healthy skepticism about these programs. i will provide our intelligence and law law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to tracken an take out the terrorists without undermining our constitution. how are we striking this balance no more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. >> there are tradeoffs involved. it is not what is necessary to defeat the terrorists. >> understand the need to make sure people discuss and debate whether or not i've got the authority to do it. >> we're happy to have that

zeebt. >> what the obama administration has done is massively more expansive than what bush did. >> i'm troubled by it only because the enemy listens. >> you can't have 100% security and also 100% privacy. we're going to have to make some choices. >> we're collecting your calls but not studying them. okay, we're studying them but we're not listening. yes, we're hiding in the back seat of your car but we're not going to strangle you. >> let's get right to our panel, political reporter for "the washington post" nia-malika henderson joins us and the washington bureau chief for the "huffington post" ryan grimace here. if i can start with you, anyia, the nsa situation is producing strange bed fellows. senator lindsey graham supporting the program. many progressives are upset the president is not who they believe he presented had himself to be when he first ran in 2008. is that a fair assessment? or shouldn't up with expect policy adjustment once a

candidate actually gets into the oval office? >> and that's exactly how the president described it. he said he came in with a healthy amount of skepticism for these programs, for the role that the government plays in terms of keeping americans safe but also in some ways surveilling citizens and essentially he saw the intelligence briefings and decided to not only keep these plans in place, to also expand them and expand oversight. that's what jay carney and the president has said, too. again, we have this strange nexus people not only michael moore saying that snowden is a hero. you had glenn beck saying the same thing. then you have people on the right also saying that they have concerns about who this guy is, who snowden is, why he had access to this information. should in fact, a lot of this information be warehoused by the government or should it be private companies that warehouse some of this information or are around verizon and the telephone calls. i think what we don't know yet

is how the public feels about this. there has yet to be a sort of public outcry and uprising about this. it seems we're in this era where americans expect this. we in some ways live our lives on display whether ob twitter or facebook. there seems to be inherent expectation that the government is going to be doing this kind of surveillance. >> right. ryan, senator rand paul has been using the line that the president has lost the moral authority to lead the nation. and he's threatening, as you know, to sue the government. isn't a president's primary moral responsibility to protect the nation as opposed to protecting your and mine privacy? >> well, i think his role is to protect the constitution, right? and you know, we have always been described as a government of the people, by the people, for the people. you can certainly make an argument that this is being done for the people. but it's very hard to make the

case that this is being done by the people. and snowden is -- that's the point that he made. he said look, maybe the people do want this surveillance state. but it should be a decision that is left to the people. not to bureaucrats who have kind of decided that they've taken this power on to themselves and they're going to classify it, not share it with anybody but oh, yes, this is what we're doing. now the president says he welcomes a debate. and i think actually snowden probably won't like the results of this debate nor will probably i and a lot of other people because like nia-malika said, people have gotten very accustomed to being snooped on and living tear lives in public. at least have the debate. at least acknowledge that this is what the government's doing. and if the people say that that's what they want it do, that's a different story. but that's not the case now. it's just being done. >> right.

nia-malika, to that point the president says he welcomes debate about privacy versus security but aren't we talking about a secret program that he intended to keep private basically? >> yeah, i mean, for me anytime says they welcome debate, i'm not sure how much i believe them. >> you think it's the exact opposite. >> in some ways, i think it is. a conversation that was forced on this president. the white house pushes back and says listen, this president two weeks ago or so had a pretty prominent speech about his philosophy about drones and the government's role in that program. this was unexpected for this president. no indication of whether or not he's going to be politically damaged from this. the gallup poll doesn't look like there's much fallout from this scandal. this isn't a scandal but it doesn't look like much fallout from this thus far. who knows if republicans can use this, if democrats will raise this issue. i think on congress you're going to see more calls for briefings

and they feel like they have been left in the dark on this. i think there are about 20 or so briefings over the last 18 months or so. >> i can quickly if i can with you, ryan, does the administration pursue mr. snowden and thus further his heroism in the minds of his supporters or does the white house leave him out there? >> well, it's an interesting dynamic because on the one hand, the white house will say ha it welcomes a debate. and on the other hand, it will be hounding the person that started this debate. so you know, it will be worth watching capitol hill to see if anybody stands up for snowden and suggests that the white house back off of him. but you know, they're going to pursue him vigorously no question about it. we'll -- he'll become kind of a pawn in international relations if he stays in hong kong, he'll become a pawn between china and the united states. if he goes somewhere else, he'll become a pawn in those debates.

so far but there's know question that they're going to go after him. they don't like to be embarrassed and have a record of going after whistleblowers with an extime amount of intensity. >> certainly do. ryan grim andnial, thank you so much both of you. coming up, the president marks the passing of the equal pay act by striking a familiar refrain. >> 59. now it's 77 cents. i guess that's progress, but does anybody here think that's good enough? i assume everybody thinks we can do better. yes, we can.

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signed the equal pay act into law. the purpose to make wage discrimination based on gender illegal. since that time, knock disparity has narrowed from 59 cents to the dollar to a still alarming 77 cents. in fact, the president today cited recent research on the growing number of bread winner moms to explain why there is so much more left to do. >> that's not something to panic about or to be afraid about. that's a sign of the progress and strides that we've made but what it does mean is that when more women are bringing home the bacon, had he shouldn't just be getting a little bit of bacon. >> and joining us now is democratic congresswoman sheila jackson lee of texas. good afternoon, ma'am. >> martin, good afternoon. i'm glad to be with you this afternoon. >> thank you for joining us. we know the number, 77 cents to

the dollar. but on a day to day practical level, what does 77 cents to the dollar mean for the mothers, the women in your district? >> less food on the table, less ability 0 provide for the children as head of household. less money in the economy. we know that parents with young children are some of the largest percentages of consumers because children need, and it's a heavy burden, stressful with respect to housing. anytime you're in an urban setting and certainly in a growing community like mine, housing is the an a premium. unless you're able to get on public assistance and all persons are not, we have something caused the working poor, low income or middle income parents. in this instance, single parents. in many instances women as head of household who have to fight for premium housing. and don't have the resources to have it. >> and can't even be guaranteed they will be paid the same wage

that men are paid. >> not at all. overall in the state of texas, for example, at the end of the year women overall will make $7,000 plus less than men. and they can't be guaranteed. what is even more important is the legal right to petition and protest. obviously, we have filed and passed the lily leadbetter case has become law and the president signed the law. but as it relates to paycheck fairness, the idea protecting women against retaliation we can't seem to get that passed in the united states congress. that means women across america may be in fact retaliated against if they race the question that they are making less for a day's work than what a man is making for the same day's work. >> it's absolutely astonishing. mapp, it's absolutely astonishing that sitting in the house is the paycheck fairness act which would help bring transparency to what men and women are paid for the same

work. one of your colleagues, virginia foxx, has called it and i'm quoting her a liberal plot. another marsha blackburn says and i'm quoting her, women don't want equal pay. can you please help us understand how what they say relates to the ordinary women in your constituency who are only asking for fairness, for parity, nothing more? >> martin, you can view that as the voice of the republican conference and many times, their members are used 0 voice the voice of the collective group and so i fault the collective group for not putting forward that legislation. but i can tell you that that will fall on ears that are not deaf in my community but are outraged. i these are women that get up every day and you find them in many professions from being in the restaurant business to being in the medical business. various individuals that provide

support services are being in the basic services industry where it is not what you would call construction labor. you find them even in construction labor with possibly differing income on different types of jobs that may find men at the same time. so i would suggest that that is wrong-headed but more importantly on this day to honor the legacy of president john f. kennedy who did this some 50 years ago and to be the leader of the world, the economic leader of the world and by the way, the economic is churning and moving no matter what our friends on the other side of the aisle have said, we can overcome sequester by getting rid of it but we can churn the economy by passing minimum wage and passing paycheck pairness >> he sheila jackson lee, thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you for having me. a note on another developing story this afternoon. 94-year-old nelson mandela,

often referred to as the father of mod certain south africa, continues to lie in a hospital room in serious but stable condition. mr. mandela who contracted tuberculosis during his years of imprisonment is suffering from a recurrent lung infections. we'll keep you updated on his condition as the days pass. do stay with us. when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals: help the gulf recover, and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i've been with bp for 24 years.

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>> this isn't always a pleasant experience. it's one that i recognize that you go through as an executive branch officer. the one thing i've tried to do is always be respectful of the people who have asked me questions. i don't frankly think i've always been treated with a great deal of respect. it's not even a personal thing. if you don't like me, that's one thing. i am attorney general of the united states. >> a bit of straight talk from attorney general eric holder who has been speaking at a high school commencement this afternoon. here's hoping he got a bit more respect from the national collegiate preparatory school than he does from the united states congress.

joining us now from philadelphia is professor james peterson, director of africaner studies at lehigh university. professor, does the edward snowden leak take the attention off the attorney general or does it add to his woes? >> this is interesting because i feel like the attorney general has been taking the attention away from the president in terms of the department of justice and the challenges that they've had around leaks and what's been revealed about the kind of information they've been collecting. but you're right that this nsa story has now eclipsed even that. we're not talking about any of those so-called scan das anymore. we're having the range of strange bed fellows conversations where libertarians on the left and right are sort of coming together to critique this administration almost as if this kind of stuff hasn't been going on fortom sim now. so i think the nsa has in some ways moved the mark a little bit off of attorney general eric holder in terms of the ways in which the government surveils

and collects data on the citizens of the united states. >> except the get holder mob does have an can antive recruitment wing as you know. it appears that democratic senator joe manchin may be getting on board. take a listen to him. >> whenever you feel that you have lost your effectiveness or may be losing effectiveness to the detriment of the job that you do even though our a good honest hard working person, you have to evaluate that. >> do you think that applies to eric holder. >> to every public official. >> professor, i won't mention the fact that he failed to get background checks through even % of the population wanted it. with all due respect, isn't the senator suggesting holder's effectiveness is gauged by how loudly his opponents are screaming at him and that surely can't be the measure of how well he's doing the job? >> nothing could be further from the truth. think one, we should look at the hearings that holder has been involved in and the kind of

composure and stature he's shown as attorney general has been quite remarkable. i think we tend to forget some of the things he's done that have been very effective. remember, this is the department of justice that addressed all of the different tricks that republicans are trying to play in terms of voting rights, that zeroed in on the trayvon martin case and look at the way they funded the stand your ground loss and the department of justice that served this administration at least according to what this administration has asked of the doj. so this he haven't broken any loss as far as we know. holder has not broken any loss as far as we know. he said although -- he hasn't promised to stay for the whole term but he has committed to stay in terms of finishing up what he wants to do. i this he that's getting through this whole sort of leak process and wrestling with his goals for the rest of the administration. remember also, martin, he didn't want to come back for a second term. he was compelled to come back for a second term. his commitment to serve is what brought you back.

i think it's hard to argue whether or not he's been effective with what he's been charged to do as department of justice head. >> professor james peterson, thank you, sir. we'll be back with a word on guns. you do remember the gun debate, don't you? ♪ even superheroes need superheroes, and some superheroes need complete and balanced meals with 23 vitamins and minerals. purina dog chow. help keep him strong. dog chow strong. i am an american i'm a teacher. i'm a firefighter. i'm a carpenter. i'm an accountant. a mechanical engineer. and i shop at walmart. truth is, over sixty percent of america shops at walmart every month. i find what i need, at a great price. and the money i save goes to important things. braces for my daughter. a little something for my son's college fund. when people look at me, i hope they see someone building a better life. vo: living better: that's the real walmart.

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we doth offer so many discounts, we have some to spare. oh, you have any of those homeowners discounts? here we go. thank you. he took my shield, my lady. these are troubling times in the kingdom. more discounts than we knoweth what to do with. now that's progressive. it was around this time on friday that we were getting news of a shooting in santa monica, california. initial reports suggested that a man dressed in black and armed with a semi-automatic rifle had entered a college and had fired several rounds. this image was later released and the identity of the individual was confirmed at 23-year-old john zawahri, but the full extent of this tragedy was yet to unfold. he had starred his shooting spree by murdering his father and his brother at the home they shared. he then torched the building and fled on foot. he then carjacked a vehicle with a female at the wheel and forced

her to drive to the college opening fire and injuring several on a city bus. he fired at an suv killing a young woman who just enrolled in summer courses and her father, a grounds keeper at the campus. he killed a fifth victim outside the library where he was fatally shot by law enforcement. but even more staggering than this individual's list of fatalities was what emerged when the local police chief briefed the media about zawahri's weaponry. >> if one were to give an approximation of all the magazines that we collected were in fact loaded fully, something on the order of about 1300 rounds and that's an estimation, 1300 rounds could have been fired had there not been an interdiction and that person neutralized at appoint time. >> 1300 rounds. even the police chief had to repeat herself because a civilian armed with that amount of ammunition was almost impossible to imagine.

today, 26 families will pass another mel lan colic milestone in the history of gun violence. it was six months ago today that another lunatic walked into an elementary school and started shooting. 20 children aged 5 and 6 were massacred. indeed today a jarring reminder, a brief and portionly lockdown at the newtown schools. at the time, the national sense of mourning was so deep and so wide, that many people felt a line had been crossed and new gun safety legislation was now inevitable. in repeated polling, 90% of the american people wanted background checks for anyone who wanted to buy a gun. but aid i about the lobbying powers of the nra congress couldn't do anything. and on friday, john zawahri walked around the streets of santa monica with 1300 rounds of ammunition. it's a miracle only six people

died in santa monica but don't worry, as long as we do nothing to improve gun safety, the next mass killing is just around the corner. thanks so much for watching. chris matthews and "hardball" is next. ing >> mystery man. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews this washington. where is the young man to gave newspapers all this information about the nsa? better yet who is he? we know so little. didn't finish high school. no college at all. a ron paul supporter. he said he worked for the cia, did undercover work in europe. did he? now he's somewhere in the world where having gotten a big story of government surveillance into print he told us things we