hi, everyone. i'm tamron hall. "news nation" is following the questioning of more potential jurors in the george zimmerman

case. their faces cannot be shown on tv, but the questions their asked and their responses certainly can be heard. take a listen. >> you say you don't have an opinion about the case. i'm saying, what were your impressions? i'm assuming everybody has an impression. >> when i saw the scars on the back of his head, i didn't know -- i figured he got a pretty good beating. somebody had to defend themselves. i figured it was a pretty rough fight. >> even before february, thisqñx event that's now in your mind, the stand your ground law, i would like to talk to you about that. so what do you remember about what you heard about the stand your ground law? >> well, when we're talking about my memory, it's hard for me to differentiate -- well, i remember reading and what i know about it. >> the painstaking process is expected to last at least two weeks. out of the initial pool of 500

potential jurors, we're just learning 41 have been dismissed so far. george zimmerman has pled not guilty in the murder of trayvon martin, claiming he shot the teenager in self-defense after martin attacked him. trayvon martin was unarmed. let's go live to nbc's kerry sanders outside the courthouse in sanford. so again, we knew that this would not be a quick process, but kerry, 500 potential jurors, 41 have been dismissed. we're on day to. >> reporter: exactly. so i think it's going to move perhaps even slower than many thought. the initial idea was they might be able to sit a sex-member jury here with alternates in about two weeks. now, let's talk about those dismissals. they're called dismissals for cause, which means both the state and defense agree that the way these people have presented information about themselves is a reason to just not have them even be part of the jury. it may be -- we have not been actually given the actual questionnaire that they're filling out, but it appears to

be, based on conversations in the court, that one of the questions on there is, do you have an opinion about this case? it may be that people are answering that question with a direct answer about what their opinion is. that would be a cause to have them removed from the potential jury pool here. there was one juror out of that 41 who was released yesterday. that was an elderly gentleman, 65 years old, who had played in a garage band for some time and was hard of hearing and had to wear some sort of hearing apparatus to hear what was going on in the courtroom. while they did not specify the reason that he was released, it may be just that the technology there could be a problem. remember, there are some 911 calls that the jurors are eventually going to have to listen to. >> that's right, kerry. thank you very much. joining me now, criminal defense attorney john birds. we should also mention george zimmerman has sued nbc

universal, the parent company of this network, for defamation. the company has denied the allegations. john, i have a few your clips of questions to the jurors. this is talking about the concern of being on this jury and being in a sense responsible for whatever verdict is ultimately reached. let me play it. >> what if i am chosen and we make a decision and a friend of mine, even a family member, very strongly opposes the verdict we render -- >> right. >> you know, like, would i alienate that person? >> sure. >> how would i handle that, you know. >> john, that is really a new world order in this world of twitter and facebook and post-interviews by jurors. the concern of the aftermath. we certainly saw it after the caylee anthony trial, o.j. simpson, and others. jodi arias. the audience, if you will, at

home lashes out at the jury if the decision is reached that they are not happy with. >> that's a legitimate concern. and it's one that happens in a lot of cases. we often ask jurors how is this going to -- can you make a decision that might be negative toward the people in your family, and how would you handle that? many people have said it has been a concern of theirs. at the end of the day, everyone has to deal with that question. i think that you cannot give them a foolproof answer because people have reactions to it. the question is, how important is it to them? if it's too important for them, therefore causing them to make a decision one way or the other, they should be excused for cause. >> in the intro, we played another potential juror that talked about what he knew as fact versus what he thought he heard on the news. b-35 talked about these rallies last year that were heavily covered, potentially rallies that helped result in where we are, which is now this trial.

let me play the exchange between potential juror b-35. >> a whole lot of indiscretion and angry people and picketing people and a lot of news media. >> sure. okay. we have all kinds of amendments. how did you feel about it in terms of people having rallies around here? did you form an impression based on that? it was proper, not proper, what kinds of things went through your mind? >> not really proper or improper. they can do what they want as long as it's peaceful. >> do you think it's inappropriate what they did? >> i think maybe it was overdone. >> john, what is your thought as a defense attorney on that line of questioning for that juror? >> well, from my point of view as a defendant in this case, that might be a juror that i might want, in large measure because the testimony or the comments really are suggesting that the people making the

rallies, they may have been trayvon martin people, so therefore they're saying, look, whatever happened was over the top, it was inappropriate, and they were maybe more prejudiced against my client than necessary. >> but would it seem that potential juror has already formed a strong opinion here? >> it certainly would suggest they have a strong opinion about the type of conduct that was taking place. i don't know that i necessarily think they formed a strong opinion about the case itself. from the lawyers' point of view, each of them have to try to put that aside to make sure that's not reflective of an opinion about the facts of the case. they could be totally saying that, look, i didn't like the activity that was taking place in terms of the rallies, et cetera, et cetera. that doesn't mean that trayvon was right or that mr. zimmerman was right. so you want to hone in on the person some more and their state of mind in terms of his opinions, whether or not they're concrete about the case itself. that's ultimately what matters. do they have an opinion and can they set that aside?

>> let me play one more excerpt from the questioning of potential juror b-7, who used an interesting word, which was offensive. let's take a listen. >> i haven't heard enough of the tapes. i think -- i find it, you know, offensive that people would, you know, say something like that about a dead man or someone who's been through what mr. zimmerman had. >> so this person referring to -- and i'm assuming the media coverage of some of the things they saw offensive about what they would say about trayvon martin and what george zimmerman has been through. if we're reading into what he's saying, she's showing some kind of empathy for both sides. if that's an accurate depiction of his words, would that be a great potential juror? >> sure, it could be. it certainly means this juror sees the case in a broader context and that he understands that there's positives on both

sides and negatives on both sides. he's prepared to look in the middle of it. he's a person who starts off with sort of an unbiased state of mind about this. each side could probably feel comfortable. given consideration to the other answers he had, certainly on this area, it seemed he would stay in the box for now without knowing the other questions. >> just quickly, now that we're looking at about 40 potential jurors dismissed here, is that about on schedule for a case of this nature, which honestly could not be really compared to anything because of the dynamics of the law, the guns, race, and all of these other issues. >> there are a lot of facets here. i don't know it's consistent with any other. i would be concerned if i was trayvon martin. i would want to know who these 41 people are and whether or not there's a statistical issue here that more blacks are being disqualified at this period or not. sometimes people get disqualified very early, and it

skews the jury panel in a statistical, negative way for african-americans. that part could be troubling to me if i'm the prosecution. >> all right. john, thank you very much. and developing also right now this hour, the full senate is about to take its first vote on the landmark immigration reform bill. the vote is on a motion to proceed. it needs 60 votes to allow the senate to formally begin debate. those votes are, at this point, almost guaranteed. now, earlier today at the white house, the president surrounded by law enforcement officials, business leaders, and also elected officials, said there's no reason congress can't pass a bill by the end of the summer. but republicans say the bill as it stands needs to be tweaked. >> now, this bill isn't perfect. it's a compromise. and going forward, nobody's going to get everything that they want. not democrats, not republicans, not me. but this is a bill that's

largely consistent with the principles that i and the people on this stage have laid out for common sense reform. >> at the risk of stating the obvious, the bill has serious flaws. i'll vote to debate it and for the opportunity to amend it, but in the days ahead, there will need to be major changes to this bill if it's going to become law. >> joining me now, nbc capitol hill correspondent kelly o'donnell. kelly, what's the feeling there today? is this just the beginning? certainly we can learn a lot from this full senate vote about to take place. >> reporter: it is a beginning, tamron, but it is a critical kickoff for the real work of what we've all been hearing about, talking about for many months. how do overhaul the immigration system. you get agreement between the parties that the system as it stands now doesn't work very well, that it is really in line for change, but how to make that change. so democrats want to see action that would allow for legal status and what would ultimately

be a long path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants here now. it could take 13 years, for example, for someone to get to that point. republicans raise the issue of border security. they want more specific certainty about what steps would be taken in advance of granting legal status, even short of citizenship, because they're concerned that without that, without enforcing the border more strictly, that it would bring another wave of illegal immigration. they don't want to see that happen. there are loc of other points to debate, but if you break it down to the crucial issue, it really is about border security, and it's about the impact on economic conditions for jobs because there's a guest worker element to this, which would be a big change in how things work. >> which honestly, kelly, listen, we've talked a lot about this. you've lived in d.c. i'm from texas. those issues are not new. they're not different concerns. it existed when george w. bush attempted immigration reform. they're not new today.

>> reporter: true. the issues and problems have been well-documented for a very long time. where it gets complicated is we're talking about a thousand-page bill at this point. it really is the details. for example, right now it says that the department of homeland security has six months to come up with a plan to improve border security. republicans want to see something more specific than that. there's so much detail that will make a real life and life-changing difference for people who are waiting for answers. we expect to see some of the young people who are called dreamers who were brought here illegally but have lived their lives in the united states, we expect them to try to put an emotional face on this as well. it will be a long three weeks with lots of details. there is a bit of a hopeful spirit that progress can happen. >> all right. thank you very much, let me bring in "usa today" columnist raul reyes. i want to play what republican jeff sessions had to say about

the bill and why it should not pass. let's play it. >> you have special interests on top of this big monstrosity. the sponsors producing legislation for us today will not say amazingly how many people they expect to enter into our country if their bill passes. why not? you don't know or you won't say? either one is an indictment of this monstrosity. and that's why it cannot pass. >> the heart of his message is that there is special interest riding this. we're seeing special interest from both sides. this is the first time that if you're looking at, you know, one part progressive or liberal, one part conservative, the mix for the first time regarding immigration debate seems to be about balance when you look at people who want this to move forward.

>> right. and to his point about the special interests, on his side, say the side of post-immigration reform, you basically have a small but very vocal minority who generally does not favor more immigration. the other, quote/unquote, special interests on the democratic side, these are evangelicals, this is the tech sector, business, organized labor. what they're calling special interests on the democratic side really does represent a very broad cross section of the american public. >> the democratic side and the republican side, though, you had churches as well. conservative churches down south saying it's time, let's do it. so again, looking at the mixture of the folks coming together who if they're special interest groups, they're from both sides. >> true. and those special interest

groups represent so many people. the two big challenges that i see going ahead to these next few weeks, as kelly mentioned, they're going to get the votes on this to go ahead. two big challenges. one is for the republicans to just decide whether or not they can accept a reasonable path to citizenship for undocumented. >> is reasonable 13 years? >> that's what they have. there's maybe a difference of opinion on it, but that's the proposal. the largest challenge for the gang of eight, the bipartisan group of senators who put this together, can they hang tight, keep their unity, and keep it going? i believe they faced something like 300 possible amendments. they kept going. as the president mentioned, not everyone is happy. i'm the first to say this bill is imperfect. there are things wrong with it. the big test, can the gang of eight maintain the unity and keep the momentum going? because it is there. >> let me bring in republican congressman of arizona. thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> as we've said, the 60 votes

needed for today seems likely. everyone is looking for the number 70, as it might put more pressure on your colleagues in the house who may be ready to stand firm and stand in opposition of immigration reform, even if it passes the senate. >> well, the bigger the margin for passage in the senate, the more pressure is on the house to do something reasonable, not to try to sabotage or torpedo any effort toward comprehensive reform. so, yes, the vote and the number of senators voting to move forward is an important vote because it sets stone for the rest of the debate. >> we know as we move forward, the process turns to the amendment process. one amendment is one that should be heavily watched and deals with border security. what is, in specific terms but brief terms, the best route ahead to reassure conservatives in the house and of course right now in the senate that the

border security issue is duly addressed? >> well, i thought in the legislation that we have -- the senate has before it, it's addressed and addressed robustly with money, with timelines -- >> the six-month timeline you're referring to? >> yes. with the ability to enhance security that is already the highest in u.s. history. >> i want to stop you there. it's already the highest in u.s. history. so is this discussion about more border security just smoke and mirrors? if we are, in fact, at the highest level we've ever been, what more can you do? >> i don't know -- you know, i think we're talking about symbolism. i think we're talking about doing something beyond so we look strong. i hope sessions, cruz, and cornyn see there's momentum to pass something and don't attempt to scuttle any effort to

terribly unreasonable requests. >> give me an example of unreasonable. >> 10,000 to 20,000 extra border patrol agents on the southern border, additional environmental and health laws, additional resources directed at not dealing with the problem at the ports of entry, but dealing with the problems in a much more interior way. all these issues are you're layering money on top of money, money that we have not audited to see if it's actually doing the job it was intended for. i understand the symbolism. i don't approve of it. but we get to a tipping point in which the issue of security is going to be used as a hammer to try to kill the whole idea of comprehensive reform, and i think that's very dangerous. >> congressman and raul, i really wanted to talk with you more, but we have breaking news. thank you. breaking news unfolding in turkey. dramatic images coming in to us

out of istanbul hours after police literally moved in to the town square there where protesters have been there for now almost two weeks. those demonstrations have been happening. coming up, we'll have a live report. nbc's richard engel is on the ground. he's witnessed riot police move into that area, firing off tear gas canisters at the protesters. it has been an up-and-down day. we're now seeing literally scenes flare up in that square in istanbul. we'll bring you richard engel after a break. plus -- >> as was the case yesterday, i am not going to discuss the subject of a recently opened investigation. >> jay carney not directly answering questions last hour at the white house about the search for edward snowden. we'll have the latest on where he might be, charges that could be coming, all of the latest developments. plus, more relatives visit

former south african president nelson mandela. this is the second visit from his ex-wife in two days. we'll have much more on his condition this hour. and join our conversation on twitter. you can find me at @tamronhall. [ male announcer ] this is betsy. her long day of pick ups and drop offs begins with arthritis pain... and a choice. take up to 6 tylenol in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. all aboard. ♪

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right now, an international man hunt is on for edward snowden. meanwhile n a few hour, the entire house of representatives is scheduled to be briefed by intelligence officials about the nsa's program snowden leaked. the entire senate is invited to a briefing thursday. as for the 29-year-old contractor, he was reportedly checked out of the hotel he was staying in, in hong kong.

whether he's still in hong kong is unknown at this hour. as the justice department considers possible charges against snowden and as the intelligence community assesses the damage from his leaks, "the guardian" newspaper's glen greenwald says his paper plans to release more information in the coming days. >> he's a traitor. the president outlined last week that these are important national security programs to help keep americans safe and give us tools to fight the terrorist threat we face. >> democratic senator diane feinstein of california also called him, quote -- or this, an act of treason. bill nelson of florida used a similar word. republican senator lindsey graham tweeted, i hope we follow mr. snowden to the ends of the earth to bring him to justice. joining me now, "washington post" national security correspondent greg miller, who's

leading the coverage on this story. thank you for joining us. >> sure. >> before we talk about snowden, no one knows where he is at this point. the big picture of this when we look at the numbers, according to the government, almost 5 million individuals now hold security clearances. 1 hadn't -- 1.4 million of them top secret. there could be another snowden in the wings waiting as well. >> yeah, and i think that's an issue that u.s. counterintelligence officials are really just beginning to confront. i mean, it's not just snowden but, you know, a few years ago there was a leak from wikileaks allegedly by bradley manning that was similar in scope. the material at the heart of it was very different. these are people at the very outer edges of the intelligence community but nevertheless were able to gain access to piles and piles of sensitive documents. so you're right. there's a question about just how widespread is this threat.

>> you know, it's interesting. the entire house of representatives scheduled to be briefed by intelligence officials regarding this program. i'm curious your thoughts on this briefing. the entire house. will this be classified information? surely, if it is, do they really expect everything said in this meeting to remain there? >> well, the history of these briefings, at least the recent history, has been often a frustrating one for members because of that dynamic that you mentioned. the briefers are very concerned about how much of this will be disclosed immediately in the aftermath as the members leave the chambers. they tend to be even fairly close-lipped even though these are closed-door briefings in which the public is not allowed to observe. >> as we know, your colleague had been in contact with edward snowden. now that he's checked out of this hotel in hong kong, do we know anything about his whereabouts? as he said before, the reason he came out was he felt he'd done

nothing wrong, he was providing information he feels the american public should know to make a determination on this program. >> well, he was in contact with a reporter at "the post" who broke this story after he surfaced over the weekend, but then was not in contact yesterday. i'm not sure where that stands today. i imagine that it might be more difficult for edward noe den at this point to be engaging in those sorts of encrypted chats that were the basis for these conversations for several weeks. >> all right. thank you very much for joining us yet again with the very latest. we appreciate your time. thank you. now let me bring in washington university's law school professor kathleen clark,t( who teaches ethics standards for government officials and government contractors. thank you so much for joining me, professor. >> thank you for having me. >> absolutely. so the focus here, obviously, is whether or not the justice department will bring charges. we're on day two of this conversation. as this has happened, the

gentleman in question, edward snowden, has all but disappeared, which seemed likely from the very beginning. what do you believe is the next logical legal step here? >> well, i believe that the government is currently exploring what, if any, criminal charges they could bring against and if they do bring criminal charge, then they will presumably try to extradite him to bring him back to the united states to face those charges. >> and that process, which we've heavily discussed regarding the treaties and hong kong's willingness to get involved and the length of time even this could take, it's not an overnight one-two solution. it's not as if officials from the u.s. make the call and suddenly this man is on a flight back to the u.s. >> well, in addition to the delays that the united states may encounter, there may actually be a hurdle that the united states will have to get over. extradition treaties often

include an exception for what are called political offenses. if we do prosecute and try to extradite mr. snowden, he may try to event extradition by saying that his crime, if it was a crime, was motivated by politics, by trying to get a political conversation going about the government's surveillance policy. >> as mentioned, he is nowhere to be found at this time, but we discussed whether he would attempt to do the same thing that julian assange did, which is seek help from a consulate, a country nearby. does that seem like a likely option in this situation? >> that i don't know. i don't know exactly where he will go, but i can tell you that the charges that he may face, that the government may bring against him, are quite serious and have sometimes resulted in significant jail time. >> professor, thank you so much for your time. i have got to take our audience right now to the breaking news we mentioned just a short time

ago in turkey where protests in istanbul continue to intensify hours after police in riot gear moved in on demonstrators. let's go to nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel. he's live there on the scene. we've seen the up and down of this day, including that moment where the riot police moved in which came as a surprise in some sense. >> reporter: it certainly came as a surprise. it came as a surprise to me. it came as a surprise to the demonstrators. that was about an hour and a half ago just as darkness was starting to settle in here. there were probably more than 10,000 demonstrators in the square when suddenly the police rushed in, hundreds of riot police, and caused a stampede. now it is clearly dark. the demonstrators have come back. they have set bonfires, and they are celebrating their return. there is a possibility that they could be gassed again and driven

out. if you look out in that direction where there is another bonfire behind them, there are several hundred riot police just waiting right now. it is a standoff. the police were clearly given an it is unclear where it is going and how many people will be injured if now the police do another charge and people are forced to try and escape. now that it is darkness, there's a lot of debris, there's fire. even when it was daylight, as people were escaping the scene, some of them were injured. some of them were being

trampled. some were falling into potholes and construction debris around here. so it is a very tense situation. >> richard, do we have anymore insight into this tipping point today? these protests have gone on for a couple of weeks. we've seen flare-ups and die down of protesters there. there have been these ebb and flow moments. do we know the tipping point why these riot police were ordered in at this particular time by the prime minister? >> reporter: it had been rumored to happen for the last several days. in fact, the protesters expected that they would be set upon, they say attacked, yesterday. that didn't happen. there were large demonstrations, and people thought the government was perhaps waiting for the crowds to die down. this morning at around 7:00, that was the first charge when riot police came in and dispersed the crowds. they weren't in large numbers. there were just a few hundred demonstrators at the time.

then there were these running battles all day. some molotov cocktails were thrown. some stones were thrown. then in the evening, it looked like the situation had stopped, that it had become a mostly peaceful protest. people were shouting against the government, and the situation seemed to have calmed down. then, as you saw and as those dramatic pictures show, riot police came in apparently unprovoked and drove the people out. it has created something of a new dynamic. there's a much more aggressive feel right now as the protesters feel they were driven out perhaps unnecessarily and now even under all the tear gas, they have come back. they're lighting the bonfires. they're promising to stay through the night. not sure how many will stay through the night and if there will be yet another push by the government to drive them out and to put out these bonfires. >> because we've seen you in these types of situations so many times, obviously people will try to make some kind of

comparison to tahrir square. what happened in egypt is very different. we're looking at a popular prime minister, a democratically elected prime minister, and a different dynamic to what even started the initial protests when this all began. when this all began. >> reporter: theñr&0%%5 must be somewhat careful, though. yes, he is popular. yes, for the last decade this country has seen enormous prosperity. he has a good relation with the united states. he's considered one of the most popular figures across the islamic world. in many ways, he didn't need to. he didn't need to provoke these kind of demonstrations for the last several days. the prime minister has dismissed these crowds as saboteurs, as people who are just trying to make trouble for this country. yet, at the same time, as you mentioned, over the last two years we've seen so many times where leaders, not all of them

popular, will get into trouble in this digital media age where everything is reported live, where people around the world are watching in realtime what is happening when they try and send riot police to disperse unarmed protesters in the main squares. no, it didn't have a tahrir dimension. yesterday or a couple days ago, i would never have said it was even in the same category. >> richard, what are we hearing behind you? >> reporter: the prime minister needs to be careful this doesn't get out of control. >> richard, what are we hearing behind you? >> reporter: what we're hearing is fireworks. we're hearing ajf little bit of fireworks. it sounds more dramatic than it is. you can see a lot of the fireworks. -- that is being struck by some of the fireworks, is one of the police water cannons. all day we've been seeing this where the protesters will take roman candles or other kinds of fireworks and shoot them horizontally at the police.

then the police are firing back now with -- >> we appear to have lost richard for a second. please forgive the technical difficulties. obviously, this is a breaking news story. we want to stay on the developments in istanbul. the best in the business, richard engel, is there on the ground. as you see, this is the height of the intensity as richard described it today between the riot police and demonstrators who have been in the square in istanbul now for a couple weeks. this initially started as a dispute over a park. literally a park. i believe it was listed as the only green space in istanbul. people were upset about the decision to -- we have richard back now. richard, are you there? richard, we lost you for a second. thank you for -- >> reporter: i am here. that scenario we were just talking about has just happened where there has been another big

push by the riot police. initially, the demonstrators were firing fireworks at the police, and now the police have been shooting back and are continuing to shoot an enormous amount of tear gas. i'm not wearing a gas mask now, but if the wind changes and these big white clouds, which are all tear gas, start coming in this direction, it will be very difficult for me to continue this report. luckily, the wind does seem to be in our favor. so far, what we just talked about has happened. demonstrators came out to celebrate their resilience, to celebrate their return to the square after being pushed out. after the government was -- government forces were hit by fireworks, they decided enough was enough. they are coming back in. some more tear gas just landed right below us. people are trying to throw it back at the police. this is going to go on, i think, for the next several hours. >> richard, people watching now will wonder what is the goal? what do the protesters want to

happen here? >> reporter: it started out, as you mentioned, as a minor demonstration by environmentalists who wanted to prevent the government from tearing down a park and building a shopping mall. when the police reacted with not this much force but also an aggressive posture, the demonstrations grew and continued to grow. and now they are squarely against the prime minister. yes, he has been generally popular and successful, but demonstrators say that as he has grown in his success, he's also become more authoritarian, more islamic. protesters say he's trying to implement a hidden islamic agenda by limiting the sales of alcohol, making it more difficult for women to have abortions and generally encouraging a more conservative islamic society. for the last 90 years, turkey has been a secular society. that is the fundamental rift you see here about people's freedom to express themselves, people to

live in a secular democracy and not what the prime minister wants, which is a moderate, islamic democracy. >> you mentioned he had been down playing these protesters. has there been any official word today as we are watching this incredible event play out over the last several hours? >> reporter: in the last few hours, i haven't heard anything. the prime minister, however, did speak today and was incredibly dismissive of the protesters, calling them drunks and vandals. here in the square, which is the touristic hub of the city -- we can see the tear gas coming into the area. we can feel it, i should say. he said because of these demonstrations, there have been huge economic losses to all of the hotel owners and shop owners in this area, except, he said, for the ones that are selling

beer. it was yet another slight at the demonstrators. >> richard, we're going to let you put on your mask. >> reporter: i think we're okay. the wind seems to be moving away. if it gets worse, i will. >> we absolutely will be prepared for that, richard. we discussed the dynamics here. tell me about -- >> reporter: i may take you up on that. >> richard engel being affected by the tear gas. joel, what is your reaction to what we've seen over the last couple hours here? >> well, tamron, this is a deep concern. turkey is a close friend of the united states. president obama and the prime minister have a very good relationship. turkey is a major american ally right at the heart of all the convalescing and changes we've been witnessing across the region, be it in syria today, dealing with libya the past couple years, now dealing with

tensions with iran. this type of crisis and the violence in the streets is very unsettling and clearly, as richard pointed out, the tensions between the ruling party that is islamist and nature seem to be boiling over. this certainly has people in washington watching with eyes wide open as to what's taking place on the ground. >> let me go back to richard engel on the ground. richard, to pick up on what joel said, former state department official, western allies are concerned about the troubles here because of the border of syria, iraq, and iran. the dynamic here all too familiar and the worries all too familiar as well, richard. >> reporter: you'll have to hopefully understand me through this gas mask. it's a little awkward. the united states is dependent on the prime minister. he's the last reliable powerful friend that the united states

has in this part of the region, anyway. mubarak is gone. jordan is concerned, is in trouble. he's positioned himself very much as a leader for the middle east. if he were to be put on his back foot or seen as unstable, it would certainly be a major concern for the united states, as the united states deals with syria, deals with hezbollah, deals with probably the most complex situation across the middle east that i've seen since i've been covering it for about 17 years. >> richard, i want to remind our audience that we are -- >> reporter: tear gas actually landed right up where we are. >> we can see the smoke there. >> reporter: just be a little patient with us. things are a little complicated. some tear gas -- it's being fired, i don't want to say at random, but it's being fired with such intensity that it is even coming up to the upper balconies of what are private homes and private businesses.

this stuff travels. i have friends who live very near to here. they have children. one of my good friends, his wife is pregnant.a#@3 people who have been living in this area have had to leave because it is uninhabitable. it's certainly not healthy to live in this kind of environment. for the people in the few square miles all around here, in one of the most densely inhabited parts of this city of 13.5 million people, a lot of people have had to just leave the area. >> and richard, i want you to tell us as much as possible what is going on there in this story. these protesters have found, i guess, celebration in their resilience. they were attacked, if you will, or confronted by the riot police earlier. they've come back, and here they have this latest conflict. they are, at least some of them,

standing stronglp right behind you. >> well, actually, i just looked over my shoulder. there is almost no one in the square right now. i assume they will be coming back. they have gone into some of the side streets. if you look down over this balcony, and that might be a little difficult from where the camera is positioned right now, it is empty. i can hear people congregating on some of these side streets. there have been some running battles with water cannons and tear gas that are spilling out of the square now. that is clearly a problem. the government had wanted it contained and wanted it to just be brushed aside. i think the government itself, the prime minister was surprised that these demonstrations took on the kind of momentum that they have. now, the government has felt very confident. if you listen to the prime minister's speeches, he talks like he's mr. turkey, that he is the man bringing this country to

economic prosperity, bringing development. and there is a lot of developing going on. there are new bridges being built, a new airport. they haven't quite fully broken ground on it, but a new airport is being built. i think the government didn't expect this kind of problem. i think it thought it could just brush this away and, well, so far it is not having that kind of reaction. >> so richard, i'm able to see behind you. i can't make much, but there seem to be a number of people on the ground. are those all police now around you and behind you? the activity that we see. >> ye >>. >> reporter: yes, if you look over there in the light, there's a statue. those are all riot police. that's become something of a base. when these things go on, and i've seen this happen in a few cities now, generally a square dynamic takes over where certain groups will occupy certain parts of the square. all day when the police have

come in, they've set up a stronghold right underneath that statue. then if you go on the other side of the square, this is going to be very dark, that dark area behind me, that's the park itself that really began this whole protest. underneath those trees are -- is a tented camp. there's a few thousand people who have been staying in that camp. i should say many of them are women. they have been staying there since the beginning. they are the core of this movement. they are the environmentalists, the people who oppose knocking down that green area and expanding this urban project, which people here said is yet another vanity project or another project, to use their language, of the prime minister's obsession to build massive projects for the glory of this country. >> richard, you mentioned many of those protesters, those who have been in those tents were women, the makeup of the protesters, are we seeing the same dynamic where they're young

people? obviously, with different issues with egypt, there was a high unemployment rate, there was an anger we saw particularly with young men. are these young people as well in istanbul? >> reporter: this is -- it's a different makeup in egypt. egypt, there was, as you mentioned, the entire economic dimension. egypt is a desperately poor country with enormous poverty rates. turkey hasn't had that. in fact, some people said that this country shouldn't even bother joining the eu, which has been something turkey has been pushing for, because in many ways, turkey's economy has been doing -- has been more successful than european economies. so why they're coming out here is because of the principle. they're coming out because they don't want to see the prime minister imposing his personal vision on this society, even though he's generally popular and has a big base of support. they say once they elected him, they didn't give him the right to govern this country as he

wished. so we've seen a lot of groups. we've seen lawyers. we've seen environmentalists. we've seen students. some just families that have been coming out. when the clashes, the people who were just clashing a short while ago, those are, as tends to be the case around the world when there are clashes with riot police, they tend to be young men. >> okay. and richard, you're covering this story. it's a breaking news story. the obvious question is, once police get control, and it appears they've gotten some upper hand now, will those demonstrators attempt to roll back in and how long will this area, which is such a symbol, and often these squares are, a symbol of what the protesters feel they can overcome. >> reporter: yeah, i think if we stay on long enough, you're going to see a time when the demonstrators come back. this isn't really sustainable. i don't know how long the

government can just keep coming in and driving people out and that people can sustain all of the tear gas and the -- there were some rubber bullets fired as well -- and rush back in. one side will either get tired, or there will be some sort of negotiated compromise. i think people in the u.s. state department at the white house who are watching this are clearly hoping that there will be some active intervention to try and calm this down, to have cooler heads prevail and to stop this tit-for-tat violence where police rush in, protesters rush back. >> and richard, at least early on, there had been the belief that we'd come to a point of some kind of negotiating with one of the officials with the prime minister, who actually issued an apology for what was seen as heavy handedness with the demonstrators. after that, we've seen the protesters kind of back off, but then this recent flare-up again.

>> reporter: the prime minister was supposed to actually meet tomorrow with demonstrators. it's unclear if that meeting is still going to happen. but yes, there have been several apologies from people like the deputy prime minister saying that the police have been heavy handed, that the police didn't need to initially respond with such force. the prime minister has repeatedly said, look, if people didn't want a shopping mall in that park, we can put a museum, we can put ar he has expressed some sort of conciliatory language about what kind of project he would build in this area, but insisting a project would be built. it's not really about that anymore. i think the dynamic that has happened here in the square is taking on an energy of its own. unless there's some effort to stop it, this could continue for several days. >> and richard, as far as the support of that we're seeing for the protesters, the demonstrators, within the government, does that exist at

all? >> reporter: not in the prime minister's camp. while he is just the prime minister, he has been quite a popular, quite a powerful figure. if you look over to the left, the demonstrat stronstrators ar back with a similar tactic they used before, firing the fireworks and then just behind them where the fireworks are exploding into green and white light, you'll see the riot police, who are firing back with tear gas on to the side street that runs parallel to where we are right now. so there does seem to be an attempt for the protesters to come back, even as we speak. to get back to your earlier point, if there is a lot of sympathy for the demonstrators within the government, we haven't necessarily seen action

taken upon it. we've heard some expressions of regret, but no change in policy. >> and what about injuries? i know last week we reported a second person had been killed in these clashes. what are we seeing injury-wise today, richard? >> reporter: what we know so far is at least two people have been killed. one of those people today, we are told. one police officer was also killed. that was announced today by the prime minister. another police officer was burned as protesters earlier in the day were throwing molotov cocktails. there are many injuries, however, that are caused by the tear gas, by people falling down, and people getting hit by tear gas canisters. so far, this has not been a very lethal confrontation. most of the injuries have been recoverable, but that could change. if there is suddenly a spike in the number of deaths, the

dynamic would rapidly change and rapidly deteriorate, i suspect. >> and richard, you mentioned this is a densely populated area, an area where there are homes and businesses. this seems all but shut down at this moment. >> reporter: the -- this area is all but shut down. the gas seems to be mostly moving in that direction, which is the busiest part of all offiof istanbul where a lot of u.s. foreign consulates are located. it is the area where there are many restaurants and bars. up until now, people had still been going to them. i think that could change, especially if this continues. earlier this morning, people were still staying in hotels around here. as we arrived in the early hours just as these clashes were starting to begin, we saw people with their luggage holding kleenexes to their nose and

mouth as they were desperately looking for taxis to get out of this city, which is certainly not the image turkey wants to project. in new york city, you'll probably notice the "visit turkey" ads on buses. it's one of the hippest cities in the world right now. all of my friends generally ask me when they should come to turkey. i've had several e-mails today about people asking me whether they should still come. generally the country is absolutely safe. but this dynamic is not boding well for the prime minister orú for the city. it is not violent. >> you're absolutelyú richard. you're going to stay on the ground. we're going to continue to follow the breaking news in istanbul right now where protesters are facing off with riot police. much of the square, as richard

engel has reported, is clear at this point. just a few seconds ago you saw protesters, demonstrators throwing fireworks in an attempt to take a stand against what's been an incredible show of force by the riot police there. thousands injured. at least three fatalities. richard engel will remain on ground. my colleagues at "the cycle" will pick up the coverage after a quick break. a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain and inflammation. plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function so moving is easier. celebrex can be taken with or without food. and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks.

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bit. >> well, what's going on essentially is you see a lot of the younger folks who have not been really enthusiastically accepting the essentially moving of the turkish government towards the conservative slant. let me be clear on what conservative is in their view. they're doing things like cutting down on access to alcohol, on choices regarding reproductive health, all the things that we have in our society. so what has happened is over the past few weeks, these younger people have been out protesting in the streets, and the prime minister of turkey has severely decided to crack down in the last 24 hours, which has resulted obviously in rubber bullets being fired and the chaos you're now seeing on the streets. >> yeah, and the prime minister has been defiant in the face of these protests. he's called these protesters the work of looters and thugs. what have we heard from him in the past, say,