[ girl screams ] noise canceling headphones? [ nicole ] that's a great idea. [ male announcer ] home insurance that saves you money for not having a claim? that's allstate home insurance with claim free rewards. talk to an allstate agent... [ doorbell rings ] and let the good life in. people now view george w. bush for favorably than unfavorably. so we thought that's a pretty quick comeback. who might be next? >> brook writes carnival cruise lines. this company is bound to catch a break at some point. game of thrones reference, jamie lanster, look it up. and our favorite, cabbie joe,

says, well, it won't be the mets. >> wow, that's rough. at least they've got the all-star game. thanks. "morning joe" starts right now. the majority of americans are okay with the obama administration listening in on our phone calls. okay with it. yeah, guys approve because they feel it increases our security, and women approve of obama's policy because finally a man is listening to them. >> do you mind that the nsa is opening your mail and listening to your phone calls? >> no. >> me neither. i don't care. it's nice to have a friend, don't you think? >> there are plenty of ways to avoid this government surveillance. just don't text, tweet, make phone calls, just do what our grandparents did and use a carrier chicken. all right, simple process.

>> all right, all right, like that. there you go. go find lou dobbs. >> and a good morning to you. it is wednesday, june 12. welcome to "morning joe." you have your breakfast? >> i do. >> we have the author of "foreign policy begins at home." richard haass, i know what i'm giving my dad for father's day. it's big. >> along with some old spice. just splash it all over you. >> a few points you can learn from. would you write something to get his goat. >> that won't go very well. when mika's third book went in the top ten, i said, dr. brzezinski, have three of your books debuted in the top ten?

he was still grousing about it a week ago. when i imitate him, it sounds like a rabbi. >> he wants you to work on the eastern european accent. >> you know, you are stunningly superficial. >> that's a rabbi. and "morning joe" economic analyst dennis radner. in washington, senior political editor and white house correspondent for the huffington post, sam stein. good to have you all with us today. a lot going on today. jamie dunham saying, i guess, interest rates going up. >> interest rates are going to go up. get used to it. this is the first time since the 1980s we've had to worry about rising interest rates. your car will cost more. your house will cost more. your college loans will cost more. business loans will cost more, and the deficit will explode. >> how can college loans cost more honestly? do you know how expensive they are? it's unbelievable. >> get used to it. >> interest rates go up. again, the crushing blow for our

budget, the long-term debt. this changes everything. >> and obviously, we're covering the ongoing situation in turkey. you're here for that. >> and the miami heat got crushed last night. >> crushed. >> can you guys get the file footage where they have all the fireworks going off behind them and they say they're going to win seven or eighth championships? that would be great. >> there's nothing that we want to see. >> look, look, listen, even "the new york post" is talking about the plug. it's very important. plug the leak. traitor could get life. let's just absorb that. >> all your viewers are absorbing that. >> i think let's debate it. i think he deserves life. >> you think he deserves life? >> thomas, just stop. >> like the cut of his jib. let's go. >> there's a lane that you and

you are to stay in. >> you know, the disclosure of classified information about government surveillance programs, it's sparked a new culture of transparency. >> something the self-proclaimed leaker says he wanted all along. now the justice department is planning a criminal case against edward snowden. >> look at that guy. that guy is a weasel. can we not put his face up on the screen anymore? he looks like a weasel. >> we should be clear not to call him a whistlewhistleblower. >> there you go. i think that's an intellectual true analysis of the definition of what he is. >> you call it obama care. >> he's not a whistleblower, okay? and it's actually been very misleading the way the story's been covered, even by the reporter himself, sorry. >> speaking of misleading. >> who's super, super close to the story, okay? >> the government has been misleading us all along. >> okay, but let's also make sure we analyze everybody involved, including the press,

which isn't perfect either. anyhow, the former nsa employee who admitted to releasing the top secret documents, the 29-year-old who's essentially on the run could face charges of theft and even espionage. there are major questions today of not only how the government handles the issue going forward but also how the director of national intelligence, james clapper, addressed the issue back in march. >> does the nsa collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of americans? >> no, sir. >> it does not? >> not wittingly. there are cases where they could inadvertently perhaps collect, but not wittingly. >> okay, so he would have been lying right there, right? is there -- can you -- >> look, i've thought about this. i can't -- i'm not here to defend him. it's really hard to parse that. >> sure you are.

>> no, i'm not. i'm not. >> you can't parse that. he's lying. >> the only thing you can say, as we talked about many times in the cases of the phone records, they did not have the names of the americans. they had a lot of phone numbers and a lot of phone calls. >> he was put in an impossible situation. he was in a public setting and had to discuss a classified program. >> he told our andrea mitchell i respondeded in what i thought was the most truthful or least untruthful manner by saying no. >> i like that. >> we see how that one works. >> i've heard that one. >> deny. then you seek forgiveness. then you say, well, i did ask permission. >> okay, very good. it's -- i don't think americans care either. i don't think they care about the nsa stuff. i just -- again, i'm somebody who does, but i think their general attitude is as long as you're not listening in on our calls and not reading our e-mails, we're fine with it.

>> to be honest, i think it's got some similarities to other national security issues that have caused heated debate on this set, but i think in some ways americans are like do it. >> the opinion poll is very interesting on that how many americans would opt for security over privacy. essentially, they're willing to make that tradeoff. >> they have. speaking of -- look at this, the tide has turned on americans' views of former president george w. bush. look at this. a new gallup poll says 49% now view him favorably with 46% viewing him unfavorably. it is the first time since 2005 that opinions of him have been more positive than negative. gallup says bush left office with a 40% favorability in january of 2009. he actually bottomed out in march of 2009 when 35% of respondents viewed him favorably. gallup says the trend is not particularly surprising as

americans generally view former presidents positively. favorability for carter, clinton, and reagan all exceeded 65% in their latest popularity polls. plus let me say he's kept his mouth shut. >> now americans are finding out he's expanded these programs, and they're giving his policies a second look. >> the obama supporters who say, well, maybe in retrospect we were too hard on the guy because our guy has pursued some of the same national security policies. and the second group is a bunch of independents who say, well, look at the republican party now. maybe bush wasn't all that bad, so then he gets favorability on that front. >> is no doubt about it. >> i think there's another way also. it's a slightly ambiguous question. i regard him favorably as an

honest guy who was trying to do his job, who's a decent guy, and he's now trying to lead a respectable post-presidential life. i think a lot of what he did in his eight years is wrong, still wrong, when you look at the economic crisis, financial crisis, wars, whatever. >> you're wringing your hands over a lot of terror issues and saying, how could george w. bush do this? i'm saying, were you critical of george w. bush the way barack obama was critical of george w. bush for putting programs in place that barack obama has expanded? >> and the polls are also clear on this, that democrats tended to oppose what bush did but support the same thing when obama's doing it. i get all that. but remember, bush wanted to go further on some of this stuff, with the searches and the famous scene in front of ashcroft's bed and all that stuff. >> it must make him very angry that barack obama has been able to go further on this. >> obama has never done a warrantless search.

>> you can do things that are fun. it's george w. bush's 89th birthday. >> is happy birthday, mr. president. >> and they're asking you help the family celebrate by posting pictures of the most outlandish socks on his facebook page. you can't do that as president. >> there we go. >> we have a lot to cover. politico is reporting that an army commander has been suspended following a five-month investigation into alleged sexual misconduct. the lieutenant colonel was being reviewed for promoting a racy pin-up calendar featuring his wife and female soldiers. >> oh, dear lord. >> that's not good. the investigation was later broadened to cover complaints the soldier condoned sexual affairs among his troops. that report comes amid news that a key portion of a military sexual assault bill will be dropped. in a nod to top military brass, democratic senator carl levin, chair of the armed services committee, is taking out a provision that will give

military prosecutors power over which sexual assault crimes to cry rather than leaving it up to commanders to decide. >> why? i don't understand. >> why did we go through all that? why did we watch all those -- >> why, richard, can a soldier rape somebody and have a charge dropped and have somebody drop the rape charge? >> that's why people wanted to put it in the court system. >> why did carl levin drop it? >> because there's enormous pressure not to take things out of the chain of command because people are worried it undermined authority. i actually disagree. >> the chain of command has to work well and fairly for it not to be changed as it is now. >> i think it breaks up the chain. >> the military leadership is really strong about this. military camaraderie, the ability to trust the person next to you, depends upon just that, trust. this obviously violates trust.

the system isn't working. still there's lots of resistance to putting it into independent courts. >> it was proposed by another democrat, senator kristen gillibrand, who a week ago explained why it was crucial to changing the culture of the military. >> victims have told us they're afraid to report because they're concerned they'll be retaliated against or marginalized or actually blamed. what we expect from the military is they don't want to change anything. they want the status quo. in fact, they have said they will not support taking the decision making out of the chain of command. i think that is wrong. i think anything less will not result in a more transparent, fair system where victims feel comfortable. >> that is correct. levin would require a senior military office to review commanders' decisions, but senator barbara boxer called the change outrageous, insulting. >> it is outrageous. it is insulting. it's unbelievable. >> she's got 27 co-sponsors for her bill. let's see if she can pull

together what she needs to. >> we're going to make sure that we cover this similarly to the way we covered another very heated issue. violence has gripped turkey's capital of istanbul. you're looking at -- we'll pull up live pictures, if we can. some 5,000 people were injured over the past few days and four people killed during yesterday's protests. protesters threw rocks and small explosives as police tried to clear taksim square. even reporters like our own nbc's richard engel were forced to don gas masks during the reporting. by evening, the square filled again with 10,000 demonstrators. the response was even more intense as hundreds of police were using water cannons and rubber bullets. rioters set fires in the square, even shooting off fireworks at the police, and the night air filled with smoke. protesters complained the prime minister is trying to impoeds an islamic agenda on what they say should be a secular country. >> what's the ponce of this story, richard?

>> turkey is geographically locateded right at the core of the middle east and europe. it's the world's 17th largest economy. and turkey is meant to be the model or example of how an islamist country can also be modern and market orienteded and democratic. if turkey doesn't work, it raises fundamental questions for the entire middle east, for the muslim world, for the arab world. there's a lot at stake both for the country itself and as a symbol. >> let's go to nbc correspondent richard engel. he joins us live from istanbul, turkey. there is a delay. richard, take it away. >> reporter: as you can see, a very different scene here in taksim square, an uneasy calm, not at all like yesterday. there's no tear gas in the air, no clashes going on at the moment. there are still some protesters here, but traffic has returned to the square, foot traffic,

vehicle traffic, and if you pan off, you can see something we didn't see yesterday, a police presence here, but the police are just sitting down. they have their riot shields at their feet, some of them. they're looking very relaxed. no one is attacking them. we're not sure if this is going to hold the turkish president just a short while ago appealed for calm. he said that this is not an arab spring movement. he said that turkey is a multi-party democracy, and he stressed that these security forces haven't been using lethal force against protesters although some people have died. they've been using tear gas and water cannons, not live ammunition. still the protesters say they will return to the square. it's unclear if a small number of them or a large number of them will try to engage security forces and once again return to clashes. but for now, it seems to be calm. we'll see if this holds. >> nbc's richard engel, thank

you very much. thomas? >> one thing we've seen as we've watched the middle east -- and, richard, you know this, through social media, twitter exploded. the turkish prime minister went on a week ago saying these protesters are looters and bums and basically called social media a menace in the translation. what does it do to our relationship, president obama's relationship with turkey, and as you point out, how it is supposed to be a model for how an islamist country can run and do so with a secular vision. >> president obama has put tremendous stake in his relationship with prime minister erdogan. but what we're seeing is the relationship between prime minister erdogan and his own people is obviously frayed. they're upset with him not only bringing islam into the center of turkish society, but also his consolidation of power. he's prime minister. he wants to change the constitution to strengthen the presidency and then become president. the most interesting thing to watch is not simply the reactions between him and people in the square, whether we get into violence and reaction, but

also his interaction with him and other people in the party. right now all the politics in turkey are taking place within the ruling party, and you obviously have tensions there. this country is in play in ways -- look, i was just there six weeks ago. it looked like a normal, stable, successful country, and suddenly it is in play. it's obviously got tremendous consequences for the unfolding of the entire middle east. >> but as we look at how the media is covering this inside turkey in and of itself, they are not covering most of the protests that are going on. so the images that we're getting are not what the turkish people are getting in most cases. >> the way they're learning about it is through social media. some are watching things like cnn international because they're not getting it on "morning joe," excuse me. msnbc. >> richard, thank you. let me get this in. interest rates have been steadily going down since the 1980s, but now they're beginning to rise. according to "the new york times," the cost of mortgages have been going up, and governments are facing higher borrowing costs.

the times also reports investors and banks have been demanding higher payments for their loans which in turn has increased interest rates and bond yields. the federal reserve has frequently lowered rates since the financial crisis, but lately fed chair ben bernanke has i indicated that could change as the economy shows signs of improvement. >> steve rattner, we have been blessed with low interest rates for a very long time. how did things change? what are the great challenges if interest rates start going up steadily? >> we're blessed with great interest rates because we were cursed with a weak economy. the fed had to push them down in order to get the economy going. they went into the famous qe program, where they kept buying bonds, buying bonds, buying bonds, forcing interest rates down, and now people feel that's about to come to an end maybe as soon as june, so the market is reacting. interest rates are starting to go up. treasury rates are going up. remember we were living in an unreal world where rates were

zero in the short term, 2% for ten years, 3% for 30 years, below long-term inflation rates. so it wasn't a question of if. it was a question of when. and now rates are going up. they've already gone up .25% to .5% on mortgages, and now they're go up in other forums as well. there's a bright side to this. this is for savers who own bonds and have been getting little interest, and now they'll start getting more. >> people with lots and lots and lots of money, this is good for them, right? >> it's good for small savers too. people like you, joe. >> he turns the spig ot on, and the cash comes out. you know that rattner has a money bath. >> i love it when he takes a bath in money. >> and he turns it, and cash comes out. and another fountain, it's gold coins. it's like glenn beck dream. >> next time you ask me a question about money, i'm going to ask richard to answer. >> it's not as fun. >> i'm just a simple country lawyer. >> but the thing you mentioned

before is exactly right. as rates go up, it's going to exacerbate the whole fiscal situation. it's going to crowd out other forms of spending and make a situation even worse at the national level. >> and as steve pointed out, the divide -- no. coming up, mayor michael bloomberg will be here with a tough new response to democratic senators who opposed gun reform. also, chris matthews, dr. nancy snyderman, and actor john stamose. on friday's show, former president bill clinton, chicago mayor, rahm emanuel, john medical mellencamp, the singer, and stephen king. >> and the heat get crushed. can you believe how badly they played against the spurs? >> has any team lost by 35 points and ended up winning the nba title after that? >> i have no idea. i do remember back in the early

'80s, they had something called the memorial day massacre where the celtics, i think, massacred l.a. and then came back and won the series. >> look at you. >> it's really disturbing actually, the things he remembers. >> and the things i just can't forget. so what are we looking at? >> it's actually going to be a dangerous next 48 hours. unfortunately, we had the fires yesterday in colorado, burning a lot of million dollar homes. those fires spread rapidly with 100 degrees yesterday in denver. it was no surprise that these fires just exploded once they formed. now, the problem is going to be dry weather once again today. low humidity; and it's going to be breezy. so feel for those firefighters out there on the line trying to keep these blazes contained. a couple thousand people evacuated at this hour. now, dangerous day. chicago, northern illinois, indiana, tonight in ohio, and tomorrow the mid-atlantic, we're going to be tracking severe weather, possibly tornadoes, and a large cluster of thunderstorms

that could produce widespread damaging winds. that area of red includes chicago, peoria, just north of indianapolis into the columbus area. that's where the most widespread damage will be. then tomorrow, for the second time in four days, tornadoes are possible washington, d.c., baltimore, philadelphia, atlantic city. all of maryland, all of delaware. this is a huge urban corridor along i-95 that we could have to deal with the threat of severe weather with tornadoes and damaging winds. that's thursday afternoon. that's not today. that's thursday afternoon. we've got the fires, and we've got severe weather we'll be tracking for you as we go through the next 48 hours. you're watching "morning joe." we're brewed by starbucks. i'm the next american success story. working for a company

where over seventy-five percent of store management started as hourly associates. there's opportunity here. i can use walmart's education benefits to get a degree, maybe work in it, or be an engineer, helping walmart conserve energy. even today, when our store does well, i earn quarterly bonuses. when people look at me, i hope they see someone working their way up. vo: opportunity, that's the real walmart.

it is time now to take a look at the morning papers.

we'll start with the "topeka capital journal." the kansas state cool board has approved new science standards that will include teaching evolution and climate change from kindergarten through 12th grade. kansas law requires academic standards to be updated once every seven years. in 2005, the state was criticized for abandoning evolution-based standards. and "the star-ledger" a bomb threat shut down princeton university yesterday after school officials received a threatening phone call. the campus was put on lockdown and inbound traffic into princeton was closed off for eight hours. no devices were found, and the investigation is still ongoing. >> "the oregonian," an outbreak of hepatitis "a" related to a frozen berry mix has affected eight people. it spreads across eight states. it was tracked to costco stores, and a class action lawsuit was

filed against the distributor townsend farms. and "the boston globe," whitey bulger, the notorious head of boston's winter hill gang is finally going to stand trial for the murder of 18 people. bulger was hiding for 16 years and eventually was caught two years ago in santa monica, california, where he was living under an alias. the trial is expected to last three months with the prosecution expected to call 80 witnesses to the stand. and oprah winfrey donated $12 million to the smithsonian's national museum of african american culture. winfrey has had a long involvement dating back to 2004. >> and the new breakfast craze called a cronut, featuring the sweetness of a doughnut and the flaky centers of a croissant.

as many as 100 people a day line up at the bakery in soho where they were invented. thomas, are they amazing? >> four cronuts coming to my show tomorrow. i'm saving one for you. >> he's already booked his tomorrow show. >> you have to. the cronuts go fast. >> you have to ask right away. cronut people, don't let me down. >> what else is going on in the show? >> that's it. an hour of cronuts. >> mika, last year when you were summering in maine -- you use that as a verb. summering in maine. you took your girls on a lobster boat. >> on cranberry island. >> there's a really cool story about a 90-year-old. >> this is from the lewis and son journal. a 90-year-old lobster man is alive after battling the waters in the gulf of maine on saturday after his 26-foot boat began to take on water.

philip tidle managed to swim about 30 yards towards the island where his family found him an hour later. after being treated for hypothermia and minor cuts and bruises, tuttle is doing well. he hopes to get back on the water soon. those lobster men are hearty. the water is very cold. it's an incredible experience. you need to go. i'd like to see you try to lobster. >> i need to clean up something. i feel very badly. edward snowden, a man people consider a hero. i call him a weasel, and people go, oh -- i haven't looked at the twitter yet. >> i'm sure people are getting la lambasted. >> it's nothing about him. either grow the beard or shave the beard. if somebody's going to leak something, you want someone to be the strong, hardy figure. like thomas jones or sean connery or burt reynolds, you

know what i mean? >> now go back to snowden. >> let's go back. >> um, right. >> see what i'm saying? let's go to thomas roberts. what if thomas roberts had done this? >> that would be hot. >> t.j., this is your hint to go to thomas roberts. do we have a shot? there you go. look at that guy. look at this guy. they would already be having an abc actor's school movie special about him. >> there would be a calendar. >> i think there already is. >> go to sam stein man. talking about calendar men, there's mr. july right now. >> we haven't let sam talk once. his mom's going to kill us. but we have showed him twice. it's for the demos, mom. with us, the senior political correspondent for politico, mike allen. he's here with the morning playbook. mike, the struggle over gun reform is playing out in new ways politically today. mike bloomberg is going to personally appeal to new york's biggest donors to withhold contributions for four democrats that blocked the background check.

mark pryor of arkansas, max baucus, heidi metkamp. and mark begich of alaska. they raised over $2 million from new york donors. >> this is bloomberg's philosophy, if washington can't get it done, i will. he's using his tools, to fund advertising, to pressure wealthy powerful people to make a difference. this is putting him really cros cross-ways with the leadership of the democratic senate because they say this actually could cost the majority -- as you know, six seats would have to flip for republicans to get back in the majority, for minority leader mitch mcconnell to become majority leader mitch mcconnell. it doesn't look likely. the republicans have gotten more optimistic in the last couple of weeks that with the right candidates they could.

and what democratic leaders, including harry reid in a conversation reported here in this times story, are saying to mike bloomberg is don't be short-sighted. you're a lot better off with a democratic majority, with a few democrats you may differ with, then all of a sudden dealing with republicans on this issue. >> is that's interesting because it's basically harry reid telling mike bloomberg how to spend his money, and if mike bloomberg wants to spend it on guns, he should be able to spend it on gun related issues. one of the things on the gun debates i would like to add is a lot of advocates that i'm talking to are turning their sights away from washington. they're looking at the states to get reforms done. for instance, in nevada, the dnc actually invested in that state to get gun reforms through that legislature. and secondarily, two groups we reported yesterday, are turning their sights on the video game manufacturers, urging them to stop licensing agreements with firearms manufacturers for their

games. i know this was the talk when we were talking about guns two months ago, but they're now at that stage because they feel congress can't move anything. >> politico's mike allen, thank you. we're going to have mike bloomberg on the show today so we can talk about this as well. it's official. tim tebow is a new england patriot. and the eloquent bill belichick is opening up about the move in typical belichick fashion. brian shactman has sports next. (girl) what does that say? (guy) dive shop. (girl) diving lessons. (guy) we should totally do that. (girl ) yeah, right. (guy) i wannna catch a falcon! (girl) we should do that.

(guy) i caught a falcon. (guy) you could eat a bug. let's do that. (guy) you know you're eating a bug. (girl) because of the legs. (guy vo) we got a subaru to take us new places. (girl) yeah, it's a hot spring. (guy) we should do that. (guy vo) it did. (man) how's that feel? (guy) fine. (girl) we shouldn't have done that. (guy) no. (announcer) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. i want peacocks. peacocks? walking the grounds. in tuscany. [ man ] her parents didn't expect her dreams to be so ambitious. italy? oh, that's not good. [ man ] by exploring their options, they learned that instead of going to italy, they could use a home equity loan to renovate their yard and have a beautiful wedding right here while possibly increasing the value of their home. you and roger could get married in our backyard. it's robert, dad. [ female announcer ] come in to find the right credit options

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♪

to the nba finals, where we have the highlights. >> they absolutely crushed them. it wasn't manu ginobili. it wasn't tony parker. >> little known fact, the average age on the spurs, 87. they had 16 three-pointers. danny green, by the way, had seven of them. the other guy who had six, gary neal, went to townsend. wasn't even drafted in the nba. they thump dwyane wade, lebron, chris bosh, 118-77. you don't have to wait long for

game four. it's tonight. >> we're not too far away from this famous moment. >> what the heck? >> we promise you, if you spend hundreds of millions of dollars on us, we will get beaten worse than any other team in nba finals. >> that's funny. >> that is funny. >> what did lebron guarantee, six, seven, eight? >> it was at least five to seven is his range. >> you know what, if they can keep it within 25 points, i think miami fans will be happy about that. >> you joke, but dwyane wade has a bad knee. bosh has been pretty hollow. if they don't win this year, they may not win another, a lot of people think. how about this? you want to see a base brawl? >> i would love to see a base brawl. >> dodgers-diamondbacks. and we're not only showing the last one. >> you don't do that. >> that was going high and tight on zach greinke, their star pitcher. benches clear, even the managers. it's the only sport where adults -- in basketball, they wear suits. in baseball, they still wear the

uniforms. this great player from the dodgers got hit in the face earlier in the game. >> oh, geez. >> why does the game continue after that? everyone should be sent home. >> with no food, straight to their room. >> they're acting like children. >> he got hit in the face? >> it clipped his nose. scary. this guy is an unbelievable baseball player. >> if you don't follow baseball close. greinke, by the way, remember he plunked a player earlier in the season and went on the disabled list because the fight hurt his shoulder. tim tebow, he's a patriot. want to take a look how he is in the uniform. didn't see this one coming. there he is. i ask for pictures of burt reynolds, and they get me burt reynolds at 70. i wanted smoky and the bandit. i wanted cannon ball run. i wanted sally fields sitting on his lap, and they give me burt at 70. >> he looked pretty good.

when it comes to giving insight into the movie, didn't say a whole lot. >> belichick? >> so it's going to be a lot of fun. i'm looking forward to working hard every single day and getting a lot better and learning under some great people. that's all i've got. thank you all so much and god bless. i'm sure we'll be talking more soon. >> is we've got a team full of players. everyone's got a job to do, and i'm sure he'll do the best that he can. we'll all try to do our jobs the best that we can. we've talked enough about him. see how he does and go from there. >> do you love bill belichick? everybody hates bill belichick. i love bill belichick. >> i don't know who that is, but i like him. >> i love bill belichick. >> you know what, i hear nothing but nasty things about him. i love the guy. i'm going to give him a hug when i see him. i don't think he'll respond. >> he looks like he needs a hug. >> he doesn't need a hug. i like him. >> wes moore joins the table.

>> wes will let me hug him. >> he is a hugger. >> from way back. ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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global broadband network and custom communications solutions, your business is more reliable - secure - agile. and with responsive, dedicated support, we help you shine every day of the week. 45 past the hour on a beautiful morning in washington. time for the must read opinion pages, and joining us now best-selling author and combat veteran of the u.s. army, wes moore. good to have you. are you a hugger? >> i am a hugger. >> jump across the table. >> i love maureen dowd. she's amazing. >> bring it on. >> oh, okay. very good. look at that.

okay. a little birdie told me, as she prepares for 2016, is hillary swapping images with barry? in 2008, hillary was the square one, mired in old fashioned machine politics and an imperious mien, while lith, smooth barack obama sprinted ahead with his sophisticated high tech campaign and referenced to jay-z. now hillary is looking cool on twitter, with her first tweet garnering 365,000 followers in 24 hours, a faster start than her husband and pope francis. >> i don't think she's going to run. she's running. >> she put tbd on there. >> to be determined, huh? >> she wears pants more often than the pope. >> pants more often than the pope. >> it's in her bio, pants aficionado. >> she is. have you seen the rainbows of

hillary's pant suits? it's an extraordinary shot. we've got to find them. >> wes, come on, tell us right now. is she running? >> what's your gut? >> absolutely she is. >> richard, what's your gut? >> absolutely. >> that's a can do. all right. let's go to joe klein, the civil liberties freak out. this is a difficult issue and will become epa more difficult in the future as technology becomes more sophisticated. i applaud civil libertarians like glenn greenwald, who drew our attention to it, but it's important to keep it in perspective. far too many people get their knowings of what our government is all about from hollywood, the paranoid thriller is a wonderful form of entertainment, but it's a fantasy. the idea that our government is some sort of conspiracy, that it's somehow a foreign body intent on robbing us of our free many dos is corrosive and dangerous to our democracy. this remains and always will be an extremely libertarian country. it's encoded in our dna.

>> richard -- >> you were here monday. >> you were here monday. you've been talking about the response that you've gotten just talking about this story. >> that's true. >> there is a massive group of people here that believe the government is out to get them, on both sides, left and right. >> that's right. it's the end zones. and what your sense is from both sides is real unhappiness from the government, in the sense that not only is the policy wrong, but that he was right. it's a kind of thoreau on steroids. because the policy was wrong, his act of disobedience was totally legitimate. that's the line on twitter you're seeing from people. >> martin luther king, letter from a birmingham jail, an unjust law is no law at all. instead, we're talking about the safety and security of americans here. again, i have grave concerns about what our government is doing, but putting snowden up as

a hero really gets me. >> what it also comes down to is, if what he is accused of actually happened, there was a violation of the law that took place. i mean, we have to understand, as i served in the military and i served in a special operations unit, we had security clearances for a reason. there was certain information we were not allowed to disclose. there was certain information we were not allowed to be public with, and if i did, i knew a law would be broken if i decided to disclose that information. absolutely, we need to be able to challenge what's happening. absolutely, we need to continue to refine and question. >> how do we question if the evidence isn't brought forward? and if the evidence is brought forward in a law-breaking way, it's this catch 22, where we're not allowed to evaluate. >> that's why we have a law form of government. that's why we have representatives. and there's all sorts of issues that are actually decided in private. covert action is one of them. >> it seems, sam stein, in this case, though, i think thomas raises a great point.

in this case, the only reason we're debating this issue -- and we understand the massive sweep, data sweep that the federal government's done of innocent americans, of all americans, is because snowden broke the law. most of our senators that i've heard from and congressmen, congresswomen, just don't get it, other than ron white and a couple of others. >> yes, i think in the technical definition he broke the law and will likely be punished for it. but i think it took a tremendous act of -- >> oh, he'll be punished for it. >> i think it took an act of bravery on his part to come forward with this, and i disagree with the fellow panelists. i think it was a valuable addition to our conversation. i think it was important to say and expose some of the aspects of our national security state, and i'm glad that he did it because we wouldn't have had this debate. we wouldn't have had columns like joe klein's that civil

libertarians are taking it so far if not for edward snowden. >> do you think he should be charged with a crime or not? is >> i have to say yes, but i'm glad that he did it anyway. i know that he probably took that into consideration when he made these disclosures. just one more point. it's fine for us to say, yes, the government has good intentions when they do this type of surveillance, but i don't think we should give the government the benefit of the doubt. we need to understand what is happening going on. >> really quickly. you said something, and i had three people saying no at the same time here. wes? >> the thing i would say is this is not about giving the government the benefit of the doubt. this is actually understanding what laws are on the books and understanding that, yes, we actually need to look at the structures on how intelligence agencies actually get their information. >> wes, stay with us. on tomorrow's show, the co-founder of aol steve case will be among our guests. and this morning mayor mike bloomberg joins us. we'll go behind the push to

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hey, listen, i'm here to warn people. you keep telling me to shut up. this isn't a game. our government and the u.s. is building fema camps. we have an ndaa where they disappear people now. you have this arrest for public safety life in prison. >> you are the worst person i've

ever interviewed. >> it's basically off with their heads, bis appearing, take them away. infowars.com. >> we have an idiot on the program today. >> you will not stop freedom! you will not stop the republic! infowars.com. you guys are crazy. >> the week ahead with our political panel. until then, the sunday politics across the uk. >> that was how a british tv host handles the radio shock jock of alex jones. >> good stuff, right? is >> that was great stuff. >> time for the news you can't use. >> we'll have to try that. >> father's day coming early for president bill clinton, daughter chelsea presenting him with one of the father of the year awards yesterday at the national father's day committee luncheon, citing clinton's charity work at the clinton foundation and the clinton global initiative. chelsea spoke from the heart about what her dad means to you.

>> he every day is my dad, and i don't need an award to tell me he's the best i ever could have hoped for, but i'm grateful he's getting the recognition that i as an unapologetically biased daughter thinks he deserves. >> only in germany, not in britain. germany. while appearing on a german game show, actor gerard butler is asked to imitate guests and theirtalents, like cracking a walnut with his butt. butler obliges. it takes him a few tries, but butler does it after a while. >> this is big in germany? i understand better why they lost the war. >> then they ask him to reenact the time he poured ice in his pants to cool off on a movie shoot. butler recreates the moment. the jib camera gets the shot, and the cubes go down his jeans. >> thank you, thomas. >> what is this? >> out of all the things you could have chosen to put on, you

chose this? is >> it is called news you can't use. >> during the commercial break, i organized all those stories, and i was very deliberate. >> why would that man do that? that's just not even -- look at chris matthews' face. >> look at chris. >> he's looking at this and wondering, why am i next? >> thomas, thank you so much. we appreciate it. coming up, we've got the host 6 "hardball" chris matthews. he joins the conversation. and also dr. jeffrey sachs. we won't be talking about walnuts or ice. we're going to move on. more "morning joe" back in a moment. let's get the ball rolling. in parks across the country, families are coming together to play, stay active, and enjoy the outdoors. and for the last four summers, coca-cola has asked america to choose its favorite park through our coca-cola parks contest. winning parks can receive a grant of up to $100,000. part of our goal to inspire more than three million people

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when you look at it, it's as if george bush is back in office. >> when you look at the steps he has taken to aggressively fight terror, it's what george bush started, and he continued. it's wiretaps, indefinite detention, keeping guantanamo open, drone strikes. i refer to it as president bush's fourth term. >> shut up, baldy. george w. bush is my hero, he's my role model, he's my designated driver. this guy is just imitating bush and thinks it will make me like him. i don't care how many ball games you take me to or how many yemeni citizens you blow up, you're not my real president. you're just some guy named barry. i hate you!

>> that's cute. >> welcome back to "morning joe." steve rattner and wes moore still with us, along with sam stein in washington. and now the director of columbia university dr. jeffrey sachs. he's author of the great new book, "to move the world, jfk's quest for peace." and in washington, we have the host of msnbc's "hardball," chris matthews. his book, "jack kennedy, elusive hero." we've got the kennedy authors on this morning. so, chris, it's always so fascinating how americans respond and how political parties respond to issues involving national security. basically, if their guy's in the white house, they're fine with it. if the other guy 's in the whit house, it's suddenly a scandal. these latest revelations really point to -- and that skit on colbert -- point to the fact that we've had the continuation of policies on many fronts, and

americans seem to be fine with it. >> yeah, i think so. i think it comes down to this. if we get hit hard like a 9/11, the question people ask is what could have been done that wasn't done? we had the technology to pick up on this information, we could have stopped it, but because we thought it wasn't the right thing to do or we had squeamishness about it or whatever concerns, they will fall by the wayside if we get hit. i think every president has to be aware that his or her's biggest job is we do what we can to protect the country and keep it as balanced as we can, but the primary concern these days is defense. it just is. we have tools. we have weapons for defense, just like our enemies have weapons for offense. as jack kennedy said, people end up using the weapons that they have. and our weapons are defensive, and i think we're going to end up using them under any kind of president. >> george w. bush is positive in a poll that came out this morning. >> interesting numbers. >> for the first time since

2005, 49% viewing favorably. of course, most ex-presidents see their numbers go up anyway, but his have jumped. do you think it's because americans are seeing his name in the news again connected with programs that barack obama once attacked and now is actually expanding? >> that could be part of it, but i also think he's done a very good thing in retreating from office after leaving it. i think people do expect a president to recede from public life a bit, definitely leave town. that is definitely a protocol. get out of washington. get out of the major media. they'll be running op-ed pieces all the time. he's done the smart thing just in sheer political terms, and the result is right there. people have been relieved of him. they forgot the part they didn't like about him, the iraq war, for example, in many cases, and they've simply accepted the fact that he's not a bad person based upon his behavior since leaving office, i think. >> jeffrey sachs, i'm obviously

concerned about a lot of these programs. i'm concerned under bush. i'm concerned now. a lot of people telling us, you know what, we've known this all along. don't worry about it. what we've learned this past week or two is of very little significance. >> i think it's incredibly disheartening, quite dangerous. i don't think it's making us safer at all, and i think, of course, it's exposing americans to the same kind of retaliation abroad when governments spy on our phones, when they intercept our e-mails and so forth. it's now everybody's business. >> so you think this program and the expansion of it is dangerous. >> i think it's reckless, completely reckless. the fact that it happened completely in secret. nobody really knew about it until this massive leak, which is a shock to the whole world now. everybody's scrambling. we kind of knew. we didn't know. >> is it a shock? the members of congress, the white house says, oh, we've briefed them hundreds of times. >> clearly, some of the most

concerned senators never even heard of the program even though they've been asking about it. when you look at what udal is saying right now, he's been afraid of this kind of surveillance, and he says, i didn't know about the details of any of this, and he's been trying to find out for years. merkeli, the same way from oregon. they don't know. we don't know. there was no public debate. the president says, we invite a debate, but it's illegal for anybody to talk about it. it's shocking to me, by the way. the real lesson -- and chris matthews would know, of course, as a great biographer of jfk -- jfk came to completely distrust the intelligence community. that was one of his greatest insights. they gave him bum advice repeatedly. they got us deeper and deeper into crisis, secret wars, and i think president obama has just signed up with them. i don't think there's any constraint right now, and the secret wars are spreading. >> steve rattner, you completely

disagree? >> i completely disagree. nobody is reading americans' e-mails, nobody is listening. >> how do you know, steve? >> i'm proved wrong, then i will -- >> how do you know? >> i believe what they're telling us at the moment. you obviously don't, jeffrey. let's deal with the facts as we know them. they have phone records that include nobody's name. they're logs of calls that cannot get anybody's name without going back to the court. they are looking at internet communications and web traffic involving foreigners, foreigners, not americans, and if they find americans -- let me finish. >> it doesn't say that. >> just let me finish. and i think that is -- like chris said at the beginning, i think that is making us safer, and i think it's important. i'm with lindsey graham. >> oh, my lord. i'm going to put that on a loop. >> and any time glenn beck and michael moore agree on something, i'm pretty sure i'm in the right place. >> to point to what both of you are talking about, there are major questions today of not only how the government handles

the issue going forward but also how the director of national intelligence james clapper addressed the issue back in march. listen to this. >> does the nsa collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of americans? >> no, sir. >> it does not? >> not wittingly. there are cases where they inadvertently perhaps could collect, but not wittingly. >> steve, you say you trust the government. the government lies to us. the government has always lied to us. >> as richard haass pointed out last hour, the guy was in an impossible position, right? he's dealing with a classified program, being asked about it obviously on television, and he gave the best answer he could. the fact is, joe, you have the chairman of the two intelligence communities, dianne feinstein, mike rodgers, basically bipartisan, saying, we know, we approve, this is what the government should be doing. we are on board. >> chris matthews?

>> i'm always skeptic. joe, we'll start a fight now, but i'm surprised you use that word government like it's one institution, like it's some monolithic thing we have nothing to do with. we have an elected government, reelected in the u.s. congress every year. i have tremendous faith for dianne feinstein, and i have for decades. >> can i interrupt? >> no. because you just used the word government. you know the u.s. government is made up of branches -- >> does that disqualify me from asking about dianne feinstein? dianne feinstein knew about water boarding. she was briefed in 2003, 2004, and suddenly "the washington post" does a story on it. everybody runs outs of the capitol with their hair on fire, and they're shocked, shocked, shocked. we've seen this time and time again when we're at war, you've got politicians in washington, d.c., that give the federal government what it wants. >> you got it. >> that's your argument, and it's jeffrey's argument. it's not mine.

i've lived in this city for 40 years. it's made up of many parties of people. we're at war. every congressional office, every senate office is its own entity, every agency is its own entity, including the irs, they're at war most of the time fighting over turf, and they have their own cultures and politics and motivations. to say the government like it's one big monster, it's just not true, and you know it. >> i didn't say >> so we -- >> hold on a second. i didn't say the government was all one big monster, and i don't know why me talking about the government. >> what does the term the government mean to you? >> what the government means to me is three branches, right? do i really need to go back to civics class. three branches and, yes, the government is always at war with each other, but i will tell you, in times of war, you see too many people lining up behind whoever the chief executive is and giving that chief executive whatever they want, whether it's

suspending habeas corpus, whether it's doing what wilson did in world war i, whether it's interning hundreds of thousands of japanese americans, whether it's what happened after 9/11, whether it's what's p haihappen now. >> joe, it's worse than that. it's not the chief executive. it's the intelligence services who come to the president and say, you trust us. we can bomb this one. we can take out this one. we can do drones here. and these guys get us deeper and deeper into trouble, massive surveillance. we've been through this so many times in american history, the incredible abuses. you listed them. but usually it's the chief executive that says to the cia or the nsa, stop. don't. there are limits in this country. and unfortunately, i don't think that's happening right now. >> so this story has raised questions, and i think what chris is responding to in terms of what you said -- and i understand what you meant, but it's the terms that are being used in covering it, and it's, i think, promoting hysteria with

all due respect. they talk about incredible abuses. you allude to the law being broken, which we don't know of anything about that happening, except what snowden did -- hold on, let me finish. extreme is a word used, especially by glenn greenwald, spying, the government is spying on you. alluding to people, they're reading your e-mails, listening to your -- that's not the case either, as far as we know -- and the government as a monster, which is what chris is responding to in terms of what you said. i know that's not what you meant. >> hold on a second. i didn't say the government is a monster. you did. you said it. chris said it. jeffrey, would you like to say it? i didn't say that. >> this story is not black and white. everybody has a point of view on both sides. >> let me say this, as the only republican, i think, in this area code right now, it sure as hell as simple when george w. bush was president. everybody sure got the long knives out when george w. bush was president, and every single

story -- hold on. as the one republican in the area code, i can say this. all of these questions were so simple, mika. it was so black and white. george bush and dick cheney, they were evil. now suddenly, we're launching drone strikes into countries, killing civilians, where we aren't even at war -- >> americans. >> and we're killing americans, and suddenly everybody goes, you know what, this is such a complicated thing. >> not everybody. this is not a partisan issue. >> oh, come on. >> we're killing americans. this is a national -- but this is a national security state out of control, whether it's republicans or democrats. >> let's go to sam stein. he hasn't talked yet. by the way, everybody be careful moving forward because i've got tapes from 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 -- all talking about how george w. bush was the devil for doing things that barack obama has expanded upon. sam? >> a lot to unpack here. one is that there are

differences between what george w. bush did and what obama did, but i don't want to talk about that. i think what a lot of people are worried about right now is not necessarily so much of what these programs are doing, because there is a legitimate point they may keep us safe, it's that there's very little oversight. you mentioned hundreds of briefings for congress. in fact, there were 35 briefings total. 22 on the prison program. 13 on this surveillance program. some of them are for all of congress, but that's not necessarily a lot of briefings. secondly is, when you get an order to do and conduct the surveillance, it's in the fisa court. we don't get access to those opinions that are rendered, and we know the fisa court has been basically a rubber stamp. i think a lot of the concern is not necessarily what the intention of the programs are, it's the fact there's really no oversight to reign them n them they go too far, and that's something congress has to address. >> i think it's not just the oversight segment. here's a section of the justice

we have to unpack as well. there's a general lack of national distrust about what happens not just with citizens of the government, but also the government of the citizens as well, and how exactly do we have that honest conversation with people about what type of information is not only lawful but also moral and also effective? the third thing -- the second thing, i think, also has to be unpackaged is through most other departments within the u.s. government, there are ways of being able to identify breaches, ways of being able to identify when things are wrong and are happening throughout the state department, throughout the department of defense. there's not within the intelligence agency. i think that's something that this instance, more than anything else, uncovers that. there has to be a way to disclose when things aren't working on the intelligence side, the same way they are in the state department and the same way they are in local governments as well. >> let me go to chris matthews. chris, because we are colleagues together, the fact we are having a heated debate on probably the most important issue, war and peace and how we handle that -- there are some people who go,

oh, joe and chris are fighting each other and tweet about it, whatever. i have great respect for you. i have always had great respect for you. you are one of the democrats i have felt even -- >> thank you for that. >> no. i'm saying you're one of the democrats you can tell that you are a pennsylvania democrat because you've always -- >> okay. thank you for this. i need this definition, joe. >> you've always been very realistic, like john f. kennedy, about the dangers of the world, your hero. so i want to give you the last world, but i want to make sure everybody knows. we're all friends here. we're all friends here. and nobody's e-mailed me or tweeted here, but because of the world chris and i live in. >> i've been e-mailed and texted. >> you can't have a good, hearty discussion without people freaking out. chris, let me give you the last word. >> can i respond to the tallahassee republican so we have our stories straight. >> it's pensacola, baby. >> i think that's why america is what it is, we argue these things. and it has come out to the public, and our media is good

getting it out. and there are people who are mavericks out there, like snowden, who got it out. legally or not, we're debating it. i think we have done some things that are rough. you say killing americans as if that was the intention. turn coats, i got no problem with killing them. if somebody's fighting against us in a terrorist organization trying to kill americans, they made their choice. we're going to act on it. that's not killing americans. these benedict arnolds, fine, they made their call. i don't call that killing americans. i think that's fighting the enemy, and the enemy now includes some former americans. now, that's part of the world. i do think, however, the democratic party, now that we're getting partisan here, i think the democratic party has been weakened ever since mcgovern, a sense it wasn't willing to be the daddy party, to use the old term, as well as the mommy party. they're not willing to do the whole job of the presidency. i think this president has not engaged in the waterboarding. he hasn't taken us into countries we shouldn't be at war with like iraq.

he hasn't been a dick cheney. that's why democrats have responded differently. i don't think they're the same. i don't think dick cheney and barack obama are the same person. i think barack obama has educated himself since becoming president to the technology we have and understands its value in fighting terrorism. i do think, every time we're going to get hit in the future -- and we will get hit -- there will be questions asked, did we use the weapons for defense? the other side used all its weapons. did we use the weapons for defense? that's when we're going to be asked to make grown-up decisions about the kind of country we want to live in, and we want a country that's secure. that's when we make the decision we were right to do it. >> mika, i said i would let him have the last word. >> let me look. >> i'm not going to say a thing. thank you, my friend. we'll continue this debate later. >> wow, we'll see you on "hardball" at 5:00 and 7:00 eastern time on msnbc. chris matthews, thank you very much. sam stein, thanks as well. for everything that you do. and jeffrey sachs, stay with us, if you can.

up next, if mayor bloomberg has his way, democratic senators who voted against gun reform may have some big headaches when it comes to raising funds. he'll explain his new push for political accountability next on "morning joe." i'm the next american success story. working for a company

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should we start there? >> yes. this is big. look who's here. >> he's going to bring common sense. >> he always does. >> he's right about everything. the mayor of new york city. mayor michael bloomberg. >> is he giving you money? i keep inviting him on the show because i want him to give me cash. he is giving you cash. >> no, she's just right. >> that's not so hard to say, is it? >> yes. >> i've always defended joe when he's wrong. he has a right to be wrong. >> that's nice. >> you heard the debate before. obviously, a lot of people asking what the president's doing is right or not.

what's your take? >> is i'm on the other side. ray kelly and i have to be right every day. terrorists only have to be right once. yes, we have to follow the law, and we're very conscious of that, and we check every single thing that we do to make sure it's compliant with the law, but this is a dangerous world, and i think boston showed you that. 9/11 showed you that. terrorist attacks are occurring all over the world all the time. bad guys don't play by the queensbury rules. we have that requirement. but it doesn't mean we don't have to be aggressive. we have to keep going. in this brouhaha, both republican and democratic heads in the senate and the house knew of it, approved it, stood up and said it's right. they can't go and violate the confidentiality or the need for secrecy and saying, well, it stopped this particular terrorist attack or that particular terrorist attack. you've got to trust them. that's what government is about.

we don't have a republic. we have a democracy. you can't put every single issue up to a vote. you have to hire people, elect them, that you think are going to have the policies you want, and then ride with them. next time the election comes around, make a yea or nay decision. >> let's move on to background checks, which we've been teasing. do you think the president was as aggressive as he should have been with members of his own party on this vote? >> the president -- you can't have it both ways. everybody wants -- congress doesn't want the president to press them, and at the same time, the president has to be a leader. he appointed biden to do it. biden's been out there working every event. the president has stood up and said it. i don't think there's any democratic senator or republican congressman -- and those are the two that really matter here in this piece of legislation -- that don't know where the president stands. he has certainly spoken out. >> but leaders apply pressure. you apply pressure. did the president apply the pressure he should have applied? >> i come at it from a different place. i'm not president of the united states. >> okay. >> were you surprised that, at

least some of the democrats that you feel you could have -- >> there's only four. i don't think what's surprising is you've got an issue that 85%, 90% of the public in virtually every state, gun owners, non-gun owners, nra members, non-nra members, they all agree we don't want to sell guns to criminals or people with mental problems, and congress doesn't go along with it. in the end, you've got to believe the public is going to win this battle and drag congress along. >> are you going to focus on the four democrats primarily? >> the first thing we've got to do is get it through the senate. then you focus on the republicans. i've been running more ads against republicans than against democrats. >> there are a lot more obviously that voted against it. people saying, why are we talking about the democrats? if these four democrats vote for background checks, i suspect kelly ayotte will feel the pressure and support background checks. >> then you go and sit down with

boehner and cantor and the leaders on the republican side in the house, and say, listen, if you want your members to get reelected, they should vote with the public, and the public is holding them accountable. you see that, manchin and to toomey, very conservative guys, one republican and one democrat, have come up and said this is the right thing to do. they don't understand everything, but they've had the political courage to do it. i have said to both of them, i will support them. this is not a partisan thing. this is saving lives. >> mayor, you, i think, have said you're going to apose these four democrats who vote the the wrong way on this issue, and the leadership of the democrats in the senate have said, well, is that really the right thing to do? we may end up with people who are worse than they are. >> the nra has defined how we get things done. look, steve, i know your opponent may be worse.

this is the issue. we're judging you, not judging your opponent. we'll deal with your opponent at a different time. this is what's right for the country. i think what the nra wants for the country is dead wrong for the country, if you pardon the pun. this is something i feel strongly about. 12,000 americans get killed every year with illegal handguns. 19,000 kill themselves with illegal handguns. background checks work, there's plenty of evidence with that, and we're dealing right now with this particular election where the democrats control the senate, and we're dealing with getting this bill through the senate. when you get through the senate, assuming we do, you get to the house. then you have to focus on the republicans because they control the house. >> i want to get to climate change because, of course, the mayor is on the cutting edge of everything. and you put out an ambitious proposal in preparation for the future. >> one other thing. it's also true that going after these guys and saying don't give money to them if they don't vote the way you want is the way a democracy should work. you should support the people you agree with and not support the people or work against the people that you don't agree

with. and ken lira did this, bill daly did this. these are well respected people. i'm not the first one to do this. we've always done it. >> it takes money to do it. tell us about your storm protection plan, the proposal that you put forward yesterday. >> i think, look, the sea levels have risen a foot in the last century. projections are they're still going to rise. you can call it climate change or not climate change, but there are certain things that are facts. oceans are higher. oceans are warmer. storms are occurring where they didn't do before. whether that continues or not, we have to protect ourselves. sandy was maybe a wakeup call. it was a particular kind of storm, not likely to see that again. but flooding is something we should get used to, heat waves we should get used to. they really can be very dangerous as well. winds, a lot of different climate things that can happen to us, and we've got to do something about it. so we laid out -- and i brought you a copy. this is yours. >> thank you so much. >> you'll have to share it. don't want to wastepaper. >> 400 pages.

joe, you can read this on the plane today. >> i'll read this on vacation. this is my swedish land use book as well. >> but you're talking about reshaping the city. >> we've shown pictures in there. if you don't have a lot of sand and berms, the ocean comes in and wipes you out. if you do, that protects. you don't have to build barriers from the keys up to newfoundland, that's not going to happen. you couldn't afford it, and it wouldn't be good anyway. there are places. we've had a lot of back door flooding where water comes in and comes around the back side instead of coming in from the ocean. you can put gates there. the idea is to do it intelligently, do it in a way that's affordable. flood insurance is going to bankrupt an awful lot of people unless we find ways to help them. if they don't raise their houses, they're going to get wiped out again. >> pretty obvious, yeah. >> no easy answers here, but it's time to stop playing and postponing it, and kicking the can down the road. the next 2 it 00 days, we're going to have a plan, and the next administration will have to follow. >> jeffrey sachs.

>> this is really great for the city, but how are we going to stop the worst from p happening? when are we going to have a national policy? >> in some cases we do. the number of coal fired plants is going down. there hasn't been a new coal fire plant in a number of years. coal fire plants contribute to a third of our greenhouse gases, kill 13,000 people a year with the pollutants, and who knows what they're doing with the mercury in the fish they're all eating. there are a number of other things. we're moving towards hybrids. the public is using bicycles, which are controversial here. the public understands this. the next country that is going to be very pro environmentalist, i would argue, is china. everybody blames china. they open a coal fired plant a week, but china has put 150 million people into the middle class, and he this say, hey, wait a second. i don't like that pollution. never breathe air that i can see. this isn't good for your health.

the water needs to be cool and clean. you've got to focus on improving the environment, and china will be next. the government isn't providing a leadership, but it's the cities and countries around the world that are providing a leadership and the public that's providing a leadership. and state government and federal government, not just here but in many places, are hamstrung. i don't think it's necessarily partisanship, it's just rural versus urban needs, and we have one of the two houses is invariably geographically based where the other is population based, and you've got to get through both. that's not really doable right now. i don't think you can expect a lot out of the federal government. my hope is that we as citizens can get it done without the federal government. that's the only way it's going to happen. >> mayor michael bloomberg, thank you very much. >> say how great he is and get more money. by the way, rattner won't give me any money. will you give me some money. >> it's up to rattner.

>> i've got his money. can i give him your money? >> no. >> that settles that. >> we'll talk about these issues more. they're very important, and the ban on the 16-ounce drinks, the fate of that is in the courts still. >> obesity is going to kill more people than smoking pretty soon. it's the single biggest public health issue in the world. >> thank you. everything he says. >> tomorrow we'll talk with president bill clinton. also, rahm emanuel will be here. john stamos is here to talk about his new role on the show "necessary roughness. the" and friday stephen king will be here and john mellencamp. big week ahead.

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officials in south africa are calling nelson mandela's condition very serious. however, south african president jacob zuma says the former leader is stable. mandela was rushed to the hospital with a loung infection on saturday. local reports say only those closest to mandela are allowed to be by his side, including his current wife and his daughter. up next, her father was convicted and sentenced to life in prison in china. his crime, opposing communism.

tiana huang joins us next along with fred hiatt, whose book is inspired by their struggle. ana, what's your secret? weight watchers online!

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♪ after all, what's the point of talking if you don't have something important to say? ♪ 41 past the hour. joining us now, "the washington post's" editorial page editor fred hiatt. his book, "nine days," is based on the true story of ti-anna wang, and her mission to help her father, a dissident, serving a life term in prison in china. thanks for joining us this morning. i'm going to start with fred and talk about how the two of you came together on this project,

ultimately your book. what is it about her story that inspired you so much? of the many stories that are out there, especially pertaining to an issue like this. >> i think it was, first of all, she came to me with an op-ed submission. we get about a hundred a day, and this one just stood out. it was beautifully written. it's the painful story of a girl whose father goes missing when she's 13 years old. we published it, and i asked whether she'd want to get a cup of coffee, and we met. there was just something very inspiring about her dedication and her courage. she came to washington not knowing anybody, spent a year there trying to bring attention to her father's case. something about that, something about her name and the origin of her name that just stuck with me when i started writing the book. >> ti-anna stands for, symbolizes? >> tiananmen. it just struck me what a burden in some ways and a responsibility it is for a young person.

>> ti-anna, is the same in some ways a burden for you? how would you describe maybe the pressure that you face in life? >> i don't think it's really -- i can describe it as pressure. i feel it's more of a responsibility to help my father as much as i can, and the name itself is not -- it's not a burden. it's an honor to be named after the people who died that day. >> so tell me what it was, especially when you were writing the piece that you submitted, what it was about your story and your father and his plight that you wanted very much for everybody to hear. >> so i came to d.c. trying to -- to try to mobilize some support for my father's release. at that time, he'd already been in prison for, i think, six or seven years. i just wanted people to not forget about -- you know, if i couldn't secure his release, i wanted to make sure his sacrifice wouldn't be in vain and his efforts wouldn't be forgotten and that the ideals that my father gave his life for

would be remembered. >> wes? >> this takes an extraordinary amount of trust to partner and to go through this process together. i'm assuming that it didn't all just start with a cup of coffee. what was that process like where you were able to build up the trust and say, yes, this is the person that i want to help share this story? >> i don't think that actually happened that way. i didn't know the book was being written. he didn't -- fred didn't tell me until it was actually completed. >> we kind of went around this backwards. i would say we had the one cup of coffee, and then i started working on the book. it's not -- it's not nonfiction. it's a story of a fictional ti-anna and her friend ethan, and they go off and have adventures in trying to rescue her father. so it's a thriller and it's a story of a friendship. there's inspiration, but i really didn't take more than the name and some elements of the story. two years later, when random

house says, oh, we might be interested in publishing this, then i -- ti-anna and i had e-mailed every now and then. i asked if there was anything new with her dad. i sent it to her and said, well, i don't know if you'll like this or hate this. if you hate this, of course, i won't do it. at that point, she saw it, and it's actually in a funny way only since the book's come out, that we've gotten to know each other as well as we have. >> the book is "nine days." fred hiatt and ti-anna wang. we're going to continue this conversation online. you can learn more about ti-anna's campaign for her father's freedom and how he's doing. tweet us your questions for ti-anna using the #mojo. our web exclusive green room interview will be at afternoonmojoe.msnbc.com. coming up, john stamos is

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five minutes to lebron thing. going to have to happen after lunch. go ahead. you were saying? >> i was asking, what exactly am i doing here? is >> good question. hold on one second. bobby, look, we both know the deal is a nonstarter, and quite insults both of us and maybe we have a deal, okay, good-bye. sorry, you have my undivided attention. >> was that guy on mute the whole time? >> all right. joining us now, actor john stamos, co-star of the usa show "necessary roughness." it is very good to have you -- >> pleasure -- >> what? >> you don't like us? >> i was saying, the new guy, i sort of like a little better than the two of you. >> just immediately, just sort of a gut thing? >> it's a gut thing. >> you're a little more impressive in person, joe. >> i have people who come up to me who say, you look really good. how bad do i look on tv? i swear to god, everybody comes up and says, you look younger and you're so good looking and you're taller.

>> now you're going overboard. >> you're complimented the first thing times you hear it, and then you go -- >> i didn't say anything about young. i didn't say you look good in person. >> so anyway -- >> thanks for having me. i really like your show. i watch it. >> he's a beach boy. did you know he's a beach boy? >> well -- >> how is that gig? that had to have been pretty damn exciting. who gave you the call that said play with the band? >> it started in '85. they're like my dream, you know, they're like whoever, beatles, are -- >> the ultimate? >> i knew one of the guys. one of the first times i played was at the washington monument for the fourth of july. it was one of the last typeimes. '85 i think. i put them on some of my television shows. >> which one did you know? >> i knew like an ancillary guitar player and i became close with the rest of the guys. >> carl was still playing? >> carl was playing. i got to play with brian a few

times. i wouldn't call myself a beach boy by any means -- >> i did that just to make you feel uncomfortable. >> i played a lot of shows. 50, 100 shows a year. we just played the reds -- i think it's sports. cincinnati reds. i'm so bad at sports. and we got to talk about "necessary roughness." >> oh, we will. >> so playing at the reds -- >> it's a three-hour show, my friend. we can talk about whatever we want to. your favorite beach boy album. we can go forever. >> okay, we're good. >> playing in cincinnati? >> yeah, a couple weeks ago, after the reds game. this is how little i know about sports. called and said, we're in the fourth inning and it's 5-0 so come over here because it's going to be a fast game. i get there and they tie it up in the ninth. i said, let's go play the show. they said, no, they play another inning. another inning? slowly, 60,000 people kind of went 60,000, 40,000 -- but it was still a great show. >> so the arc of your career now

goes from "full house." >> well, i started on "general hospital." >> if you're going to do the arc of the career, don't forget "gh." >> because actually at school that i went to, don't make fun of me, they would stop for lunch and watch "gh." when laura got married to look again. were you on during those years? >> i was. i got to work was -- elizabeth taylor was on, sammy davis jr. i was 18. >> that's a pretty good first job. >> i was just kind of making fun of the uncle jesse thing part of it. >> why would you make gun fun o that? >> i don't know. he doesn't like me so why bother to try? >> no, i like you. >> that was great stuff. >> no, it's okay. so "necessary roughness." let's talk about that. tell us about it. i'm sorry, i don't watch television. i say that to everybody who comes on. what would draw me to watch the show?

>> me. >> oh, god. he just goes there, doesn't he? >> they sort of revamped the show. this show is about a psychiatrist. >> she seems cool. >> super cool. beginning of the show, she sort of helped -- it's a psychologist who helped the jets i think it was. so she came on the show and she was helping the football team. i think they thought the show got a little closed up after a few years so the third year, they opened it up. this season, i'm the ceo of this big company called v-3. >> and you walk around with an ear -- >> and i wear the same suit that i'm wearing told which is weird. >> wow. >> and what happens is i hire her to come work with my clients. so it opens up the show. she's not just with sports figures. she works with like there's a lindsay lohan character, there's a -- we can get into baseball. we can get into basketball. there's a self-help guy she works with. and then within the ten episodes, there's a mystery that sort of goes on. i kind of play a guy who you

don't know if he's good or bad. it's really interesting how it's written -- >> are you like a jerry maguire-type? >> not quite. sort of calmer and very much in control. he always -- he does have an end game. i'll be reading the script, like how am i going to get out of this? by the end, he charms his way out or figured a way out at the end. it's been a really great experience. and i'm proud -- i really like the show. >> so have you dealt with agencies like the one that you're now in charge of in "necessary roughness" and how much did that inform your character? >> well, i used to be with -- brad gray was the manager, now with paramount. i look at him a lot. he was calm. as crazy as things got around him. so i use a little bit of that for conner mcclane in "necessary roughness." >> what's the difference between -- >> do you know ari? >> ari gold? >> yeah, that's what we call him.

ari manuel. very calm. so what's the difference between crazy sports agents and speaking of ari, crazy entertainment agents? >> well, i play both. i mean, it's sort of a combination of ing and cia. we have sports, entertainment. that's the way they sort of open up the show. >> that's a nice hot mess. >> there's a lot going on here. >> what will we see in season three? >> throughout the ten episodes, there's a mystery that happens. slowly, each week, it kind of unpeels. you don't know if i'm a good guy or bad guy. there's some nefarious activity that goes on. each week is really smart. she -- i sort of assign her to a new client. one of my clients to be helped. >> one thing -- >> he's actually much better looking -- good looking in person. have you noticed that? it doesn't translate on tv but he's a very good looking guy. that hair. >> you guys are funnier than i thought too. >> than we look on tv. >> you've never seen our show

before. >> if the hair -- >> go ahead, bring it. >> well, i don't like -- honestly -- >> you going to call it? >> she's done it to trumpster. >> i love it. set it and forget it. >> set it and forget it. he goes like this. >> you'll be the envy of america. oh, look at that. >> a lot of gel. i'm sorry, stamos, you don't need to do that. >> by the way, it got me a career out of this hair, 30 years. >> there's something about a man who spends more time in front a mirror than i do. >> he doesn't, he just wakes up. it just comes naturally. set it and forget it. i like that. all right. the new season of "necessary roughness" debuts tonight, with john's hair, on usa, at 10:00 p.m. look at this. he's putting it in your hair. we shall return. >> we'll be right back.

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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. i can't get them to stop talking. it's 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. >> what are you wearing? >> no, i'm just cold. >> what is that? >> it's not for you to see. i'll take it off it. >> no -- >> no, it's okay. >> what is this? wrap it up. >> i won a pulitzer. >> why don't you and ratner go off to your -- >> it's a yacht. i need some help. okay. back with us on set we have richard hass, steve ratner, thomas roberts. >> the real america here. >> and in washington, you know, sam will connect with some of the stories we're covering because he too was on a

calendar. >> he was. >> sam stein. a lot going on. amy dunham saying i guess interest rates are going up. >> interest rates are going to go up. >> and the miami heat got crushed last night. >> crushed. >> can you guys get the file footage where they have all the fireworks behind them and they say they're going to win seven or eight championships? that would be great. >> there's nothing that we want -- >> look, listen, "new york post" is even talking about the leak. plug the leak. trader could get life. think about -- let's just absorb that. >> i think all your viewers are absorbing that. >> i think -- let's debate it. i think he deserves life. >> does that go with the right story? >> thomas, just stop. god. >> okay. >> okay. i'm going to -- we'll have a talk. there's a lane that you and you are to stay in, okay.

>> the disclosure of classified information. it's sparking new calls for transparency. >> it's something the self-proclaimed leaker says he wanted all along. now the justice department is preparing a criminal case against -- >> can i just say, look at that guy. that guy's a weasel. can we not put his face up on the screen? he looks like a weasel. >> we should just be clear not to call him a whistle blower. >> that's right. >> i think actually intellectual true analysis of -- the definition of what he is. and he's not a whistle blower. >> you follow obama care -- everybody -- >> this is -- he's not a whistle blower, okay, and it's actually been very misleading the way the story's been covered. even by the reporter himself, sorry. >> speaking about misleading -- >> super close to the story, okay -- >> the government's been misleading us all along -- >> okay, bub let's also make sure we analyze everybody involved including the press. which isn't perfect either.

so anyhow, the former nsa employee who admitted to releasing the documents, the 29-year-old who's essentially on the run could face charges of theft and even espionage. there are major questions today of not only how the government handles the issue going forward but also how the director of national intelligence james clapper addressed the issue back in march. >> does the nsa collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of americans? >> no, sir. >> it does not? >> not wittingly. there are cases where they could inadvertently perhaps collect but not wittingly. >> yeah, okay, so he would have been lying right there, right? is that -- is there -- can you -- >> look, i've thought about this. i can't -- i'm not here to defend him. it's really hard to parse that. >> sure you are.

you can't parse that, he was lying. >> the only thing you could possibly say is that -- as we talked about many times, they did not have the names of the americans. they had a lot of phone numbers, a lot of phone calls. >> possible situation. he was in a public setting. he had to discuss a classified program. it put him in an impossible situation. >> he told our andrea mitchell, i responded in what i thought was the most truthful or least untruthful manner by saying no. >> i like that. >> see, how that works -- >> i've heard that one. >> deny, then you seek forgiveness, then you say, well, i did ask permission. >> all right, so it's -- i don't think americans care either. i don't think -- i don't think they care about the nsa stuff. i just -- again, i'm saying as somebody would does, i think their general attitude is as long as you're not listening in on our calls, you're not reading our e-mails, we're fine with it.

>> to be honest i think it's got some similarities to other national security issues that have caused heated debate on this set. but i think in some ways americans are like do it. >> exactly. >> the pew poll was interesting. a majority of americans would opt for security over privacy. essentially they're willing to make that tradeoff. >> they have. >> all right, and speaking of -- well, look at this. the tide has turned on american's views of former president george w. bush. look at this. >> this is related. >> a new gallup poll says 49% now view him favorably, with 46% viewing him unfavorably. it is the first time since 2005 that opinions of him have been more positive than negative. gallup says bush left office with a 40% favorability in january of '09. he bottomed out in the march of '09 when 35% respondents viewed him favorably. gallup says the trend is not particularly surprising as americans generally view former

presidents positively. and i should point out he hasn't opened his mouth since he left office. >> and sam stein who also point out all of these stories that have come out. barack obama just eviscerated george w. bush and dick cheney as a candidate. and now americans are finding out that he has done for the most part the same. in fact, expanded some of these programs. it looks like they're giving him a second look. >> two theories on this. one is the obama supporters who say maybe in retrospect we were too hard on the guy because our guy has basically pursued some of the same national security polic policies. the in tdependents say, wow, lo at the party now, maybe bush wasn't that bad. >> no doubt about it. >> i think there's another way also. it's a slightly ambiguous question. i regard him favorably as an honest guy who is trying to do his job, who is a decent guy,

and who is now trying to lead a respectable post-presidential life. i just think a lot of what he did in his eight years was wrong. i think it's still wrong. the economic crisis, the financial crisis, the wars, whatever. >> wringing your hands over a lot of these terror issues saying how could george w. bush do this? i'm saying, were you critical of george w. bush for the way barack obama was critical of george w. bush, democratic -- >> right, but remember -- >> -- for putting programs in place that barack obama has expanded. >> and the polls are also clear on this. democrats tend to oppose what bush did but support the same thing when obama's doing it. i get that. remember, bush also wanted to go further on some of this stuff with wireless searches and the famous scene in nt from of ashcroft -- >> it must make him very angry that obama was able to go further -- >> obama has never done a

warrantless search -- >> yeah, exactly. george h.w. bush's 89th birthday a they're asking you help the family celebrate by posting pictures of your most outlandish socks on his facebook. let's keep moving. politico is reporting that an army commander has been suspended following a five-month investigation into alleged sexual misconduct. the lieutenant colonel was being reviewed for promoting a racy pinup calendar featuring his wife and female soldiers. >> oh, dear olord. >> that's not good. later broadened to say he condoned affairs among his troops. a key portion of a military sexual assault bill will be dropped. in a nod to top military brass, he says he's taking out a provision that would give military prosecutors power over which sexual assault crimes to

try, rather than leaving it up to commanders to decide. >> why? i don't understand. >> you know what, why did we go through all that? why did we watch all those -- >> why, richard, can a soldier rain somebo rape somebody and have the commander drop the rape charge? >> that's why people wanted to put it into the court system. >> why did carl levin drop it? >> because there's obviously tremendous pressure not to take things out of the normal chain of command because people are worrying it would undermine authority. i disagree with it. >> chain of command has to work well and fairly for it not to be changed. >> if somebody is raped, i would say that breaks up the chain. >> that's a problem. >> the military leadership is really strong about this. military camaraderie. to trust the person next to you. this obviously violates trust. the saystem isn't working.

there's lots of resistance to putting it in independent courts. >> it was proposed by another democrat, senator kristin gillibrand, who a week ago explained why it was crucial. >> victims have told us, they said they're afraid to report because they're concerned they'll be retaliated against or marginized or actually blamed. what we expect from the military is they don't want to change anything. they want the status quo. in fact, they have said they will not support taking these decision making out of the chain of command. i think that is wrong. i think anything less will not result in a more transparent fair system where victims feel comfortable. >> that is correct. would require a senior military office to review commander's decisions. senator boxer called the change outrageous, insulting. >> it is outrageous, it is insulting. that's unbelievable. >> what country is this? >> one more shot on the floor. 27 co-sponsors on her bill. see if she can pull together what she needs --

>> we'll make sure -- we're going to make sure we cover this. according to "the new york times," the cost of mortgages have been going up. governments are facing higher borrowing costs. "the times" also reports banks have been demanding higher payments for their loans which in turn increased interest rates and bond yields. lately, fed chair bernanke has indicated that could change as the economy shows signs of improvement. >> steve ratner, we have been blessed with low interest rates for a very long time. how do things change? what are the great challenges if interest rates start going up steadily? >> we're blessed with great interest rates because we were cursed with a weak economy. the fed has to push them down to get the economy going. they went into the famous qe program where they kept buying bonds, forcing interest rates down, forcing interest rates down. and now people feel that's about to come to an end maybe as soon as june. so the market is reacting.

and yields have started -- interest rates are starting to go up. treasury rates are going up. remember, we were living in an unreal world. zero in the short term. 2% for 10 years. 3% for 30 years. below long-term inflation rates. it wasn't a question of if, it was a question of when. now rates are going to go up. they've already gone up .25% to .50% on mortgages. there's one bright side to this. which of course is for savers who own bonds and have been getting very little interest, they will start to get a little more. >> people have lots and lots and lots of money, this is good for them, right? >> well, it's good for small savers too. people like you, joe. >> the spigot, he turns -- it comes out -- do you know -- >> i love it. take a bath in money. >> he turns and cash comes out. other faucet, it's like gold coins. it's like glenn beck drink. >> next time you ask me a

question about money, i'm going to ask richard to answer it. >> it's not as fun. >> i'm just a simple country lawyer. >> the thing you mentioned before is exactly right. as rates go up, it's going to exacerbate. it's going to make a bad situation worse at the national level. >> as steve pointed out, the divide. still ahead, someone could get hurt. gq correspondent and dead spin columnist drew mcgary with his memoir on 21st century parenthood. and mike explains why being a good parent for him involves throwing baseballs at his kids. you guys have a lot in common, you and mike. up next, doctor's orders. dr. nancy snyderman with new warning signs for baby boomers when it comes to hearing health. >> what? >> first, it wasn't that good, here's bill, he's got a check of the forecast. >> good morning. unfortunately, we had fires breaking out in colorado yesterday. that was the big weather story

out there. this fire burned about, damaged 60 homes, destroyed about a dozen. you can see, these were beautiful nice home, out in the middle of the forest. this fire was fueled by gusty winds, low humidity and 100 degree heat. firefighters didn't have a chance. as we go throughout the day today, it's going to be another hot one. not quite as bad but still very dry it it's still going to be a little bit breezy. it's going to be a difficult day on the fire line. now, the other news. this will be a big story later on today, tonight and into the day tomorrow. dangerous storms are head iing r areas near chicago, peoria, indianapolis. this area of red is where we expect a moderate risk of tornados and damaging winds today. i think the wind threat is more than the tornadoes. even if we get one or two of them near chicago, that's a big deal. as we go into thursday, all of the stormy weather will head to the eastern seaboard. an unusually large moderate risk for this region of the country. we'll watch out for philadelphia, baltimore, d.c.,

to richmond. potential for tornadoes. and dangerous weather. areas in new england, another 2 to 4 inches of rain. we've gotten soaked in this june. we leave you with a shot of washington, d.c. it's the day before the stores. enjoy it while it lasts. i am an american success story. i'm a teacher. i'm a firefighter. i'm a carpenter. i'm an accountant. a mechanical engineer. and i shop at walmart. truth is, over sixty percent of america shops at walmart every month. i find what i need, at a great price. and the money i save goes to important things. braces for my daughter. a little something for my son's college fund. when people look at me, i hope they see someone building a better life. vo: living better: that's the real walmart.

always go the extra mile. to treat my low testosterone, i did my research. my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. report these symptoms to your doctor. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medications. serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer; worsening prostate symptoms; decreased sperm count; ankle, feet or body swelling; enlarged or painful breasts; problems breathing while sleeping; and blood clots in the legs. common side effects include skin redness or irritation where applied, increased red blood cell count, headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and increase in psa. ask your doctor about the only underarm low t treatment, axiron.

20 past the hour. dr. nancy snyderman is joining us. in philadelphia, former white

house -- he has a very long intro. former white house adviser for health policy. now vice provos for global initiatives at university of pennsylvania, dr. zeke emmanuel. >> that's not too long. >> what are we talking about today? >> we had a list here, but i just want to go back to something we talked about yesterday. because we got so much reaction on twitter and e-mail. first, though -- >> plan b? >> not on pla b. we did to that as well. but vitamins. do you think they're important? >> i think for the average american, they just give you expensive urine. >> exactly. zeke? >> so there's certain vitamins which are bad for you. there's no doubt about it. the data on vitamin e and beta carotene is not good. we should also remember, folic acid is one of those -- >> exception to the rule. >> really important for pregnant women or young girls who are going to become pregnant.

>> most foods are fortified with folic acid. breads and cereals. if a young woman is of child bearing age, she should be on supplements because that prevents things like spina bifida. >> but that's one of the vitamins that's had a huge impact in improving our health. >> true, true. >> otherwise, it's a big waste of money, zeke? >> well, if you want expensive urine. everything comes at a price. >> i guess all those wall street guys can compete on that now. >> i guess they can. >> oh, god. >> mine's more expensive than yours. what else? you talked about plan b yesterday. >> yeah, i want -- >> everybody's like, that's great, that's great. but you and willie are like, well, i'm not so sure i want my -- >> because it makes people wiggy about parenting. this is where politics and medicine do not make for good bedfellows. >> i have three daughters and no one wants to begin imagining their daughters and what they're doing sexually. on the other hand, we do need to

have a way for people when a mistake happens, when their emotions overtake their reason, to not have to live with it for their entire life, not to have to go through an abortion and the considerings of an abortion -- >> as a former pediatrician, i would see children of rape and these kids don't necessarily have a -- >> that is a small exception. >> no, joe, it's about safe access to contraception from a medical standpoint. >> i don't want stupid people out there to say, oh, joe says rape and insist -- it happens a lot but -- hold on a second. the overwhelming majority of cases here are, though, not about rape and incest. this is about teenage girls -- >> true. >> making a mistake and going up -- >> and boys. >> and boys. >> this is what we're talking about. going out and then, again, parents, do parents have a right to be a little uncomfortable about the fact their 14-year-old daughter can just go over and buy a plan b? >> here's what i would put back in your lap.

do you want to prevent pregnancy or do you want to deal with abortion? because we get very wiggy when we talk about contraception and parental discussion. do you want your kids to talk to you about condoms? they're all sort of the same family. >> here's one thing i would say. remember, pregnancy itself has some pretty serious health risks. especially for young kids. and so we don't want them to go through that. the second thing is we don't want a lot of children of teenage girls. that's not a good thing for the country as a whole or for the baby. and i think the last thing is we don't want people to have a lifetime of pain and suffering because they made a mistake one night. and so i do think that while we don't want to think about young girls having sex, i do think we need to give them options so they don't have a lifetime of problems. >> so nancy what i think joe also and i get wiggy about is -- or with the plan b is that you can buy it at any age and you can do that alone.

i do think that's something that's worth a conversation. >> it is worth a conversation. >> -- for parents, and i'm talking about everything, these kids, now, have access to everything. i feel like they -- everything has been taken out of our control. >> you know what sometimes they tonight have access to? they don't have access to their parents. we don't have sit-down family dinners. we're not talking about parts of the body in real terms when they're 4 years old so they grow up really owning their bodies. we're very puritanical and wiggy when talking about sex and yet when kids become sexually activity, we don't deal with it then either. so they turn to outside sources. i do think -- i really mean this -- the nuclear family's the best place to address this. but it's at the dinner table. but when kids fall through the cracks, you know, i always find myself saying i don't want kids

to think that abortion is the right answer. if i can prevent a pregnancy, and this is from the medical standpoint, we're still better off. teenage pregnancy is a phenomenal health risk to young women. >> what about, zeke, from the -- i'll just ask you personally. your daughters? do you want your daughters -- again, i'm just -- all i'm doing here, right, people shouldn't misread what i'm doing here. i watched the show yesterday. and erb comes on here glibly and says this is the best thing medically and i'm sure it is. but let's just not run rough shod over the fact that this makes a lot of liberal parents, conservative parents, independent parents, young parents, old parents, west coast parents, east -- this is when we seem detached from the realities, not of politics but of american culture. let's not just act like we're the enlightened ones and enelse is looming around in a cave. slouching around in a cave. as a parent, are you concerned

that a 14-year-old daughter of yours could go get plan b alone without, dad, mom, what should i do here? >> look, i'm worried about that. i have had good conversations with my daughters about that. but i also think we need to be real it'sic that we don't want kids to suffer a lifetime for one mistake. all of us on this show have made serious mistakes along our life. thank god we haven't had to pay for it for the receipt st of ou. i agree with you, joe. i wouldn't have wanted my daughters when they were 14, 15 to have sex and especially to have sex without talking about it with me. we also need to recognize a lot of kids are in one-parent families. they don't talk about this. it's a difficult issue to talk about with your children. >> in my family, i mean, very open, very open about everything. you talk about wiggy. i'm not wiggy about talking about sex with my kids.

but obviously there are families where you don't have that situation, where a 13-year-old, 14-year-old, 15-year-old girl, you know, and we keep talking about girls. i'm not living in the '50s. it's the guy's fault as well. i'm not putting this all on the young woman. unfortunately, she's the one that, unfortunately, disproportionately, carries the burden. she may not have a parent to talk to. >> it's funny because i have a soon to be 7-year-old girl and i'm in a different phase. my wife punches me in the arm. it's true, when she was born, i was like, oh, my god, she's going to grow up and have sex. >> she's like we just had our first baby and this is what you're talking about? >> can i just say, that is wiggy. i have a 9-year-old girl, that has never gone through my mind. >> i think it's what we as a species do, brian. >> the thing that's interesting in this conversation is that it brings it back full circle. because yesterday i shared that skepticism joe just expressed. maybe this puts more of a little

bit responsibility on us. with this in store for us to have these conversations. >> we'll work with you on that. it's not about whether it's medically safe. no one's talked about that because we know it is. this really is a social issue, of how do we raise our families. what does it mean to society at large. that's where you see the disruption. it's really about access and parenting. and parents rights. >> that's why i think for all of us -- i think all of us have that natural visceral reaction where it's like we don't want to talk about it. there are families who don't have the same type of structure. that has to be talked about. we have to be able to have an intellectual and common conversation about how do we separate our personal, heemotiol splurge, versus what's right for

parents. >> i agree. hearing loss. baby boomers. >> 30 million americans have hearing loss. 65% of them are under the age of 65. everything from taxis and jackhammers to, for our generation and our kids especially, music. you and i grew up in front of big booming speakers. but the technology's so great now. these little ear buds. there's no bleed of sound around. once you damage that inner ear from sound, you can't get that back. >> not fixable. >> no, we're looking at a whole new wave of hearing aids in people much younger than we would have thought of years ago. >> t.j. just said i look angry. i played in garage bands. you close everything off in your garage. you play really loud. and, you know, i have a constant ring in my ear. >> that goes with that high frequency nerve loss. >> it always drives eps crazy. i'm always taking this out. constantly. because i just feel like it's

causing further damage. >> he's alwaysle it, always telling me he never heard what i said. >> huh? >> exactly. before we go to break, a swedish study out of stockholm about obesity tied to risks for the baby. >> so more than 60% of women are above a healthy weight when they get pregnant and we know that obese women have higher rates of preterm babies. those babies are underweight. that sets into place problems with brain, lung, bowel, heart problems and they end up in the intensive care units. this ties really back into plan b. sometime these are young girls who don't -- and i know it sounds crazy, they don't recognize that they're pregnant, they don't go in for good prenatal care. >> talking about plan b, i got two older boys, and i saw them grow up where, you know, pornography just exploded on the

internet in the '90s. suddenly, you knew that, you know, 10-year-old, 11-year-old kids were seeing things. >> there's no hiding it. >> everybody was always worried this was going to turn them into a bunch of sex freaks. i bring this up because of plan b. people just assume because it's out there teenagers are going to change their behavior in a more liberal way. that could happen. i mean, certainly happened with the pill. it happened with abortion. but what i found, at least in my son's generation, and i'm wondering if there's studies that bear this out, they've actually seemed to become more conservative. >> well, we have seen -- >> i listen to them talk and i'm, like, you guys don't even talk like we talked. in the '70s and '80s. it's almost like they're repulseled by this in their face. i actually find them to be more traditional about kissing and dating and other things than people were in the '60s, '70s and '80s. >> we have seen a swing to

reduce teenage pregnancy which i think is a good thing nationwide. the other thing is we have to remember, they're not dating one on one now. there are these, you know, they go out in groups and i found it t interesting they no longer call the house, they're only texting to each other. so you don't get to intersect with the kids that your daughter or son are going out with. a bit disconcerting as a parent. you'd like to get to know them and have a relationship with the people they're dating to make assessments. now with social media, they hardly use the phone, which used to be the way that i could always intimidate the boyfriends. >> exactly. dr. nancy snyderman, thank you. when are you going to invite me to u-penn? >> we're planning for october. >> okay, thank you. >> we're going to do "morning joe" from philadelphia. >> i love it. dr. nancy, you need to talk to brian about his wigginess. >> he's so nervous. >> i got some issues. >> the doctor says, it's a baby

girl, he's like, she's going to have sex. take care. also, why gq correspondent and dead spin columnist drew la gary says parenting can be painful. he joins us with some very funny insights. with the fidelity american express credit card, every purchase earns you 2% cash back, which is deposited in your fidelity account. -is that it? -actually... there's no annual fee and no limits on rewards. and with the fidelity cash management account debit card, you get reimbursed for all atm fees. -is that it? -oh, this guy, too. turn more of the money you spend into money you invest. it's everyday reinvesting for your personal economy. ♪

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♪ that was the trailer for a book -- >> they have book trailers now. >> it's awesome. i want one. i'm going to call my publisher. >> there's a full movie that just plays for you. >> we will ask you to leave right now, so put off by this. the book "someone could get hurt." here with us, drew magardy.

how can you get hurt raising kids? believe me, i know a little bit about it, which we will not get into. >> maybe we will. >> there are about 5 zillion ways people can get hurt, emotionally, physically, bumps to the head. there's just sort of this ominous fear when you're an american parent that just -- r you're just waiting for the other shoe to drop. i'm always worried if i turn my head, they'll be gone. someone will have thrown them into a windowless van and just driven off, right. >> it's a good thing though. >> the terror? >> to be that wary. >> i think american parents have this sort of conen drum. particularly for fathers. you're supposed to be more involved. i am involved. i don't play golf on the weekends or anything like that. you're supposed tore mob involved. like the older generation like my father one time, i was on the phone with him and then my daughter starts screaming. i said, dad, i got to go. he's like, so that's it, you're just going to go do whatever she

says. it's like you're supposed to be more involved, then people are like, well, you're a wimp because you're too involved and i can't win, you know. >> it's one of those things where i get to the point sometimes -- we have three young kids, basically the same age. if you don't do this, i'm going to -- and i run out of things to say that might threaten them to stop. and i think -- you might have a little misperception about the book. the book isn't about being overprotective. it's like when something in life gets truly profane, what do you do. >> what do you mean truly profane? >> like f-bomb profane. >> where would they ever hear it? >> well, the grocery store is one where your kid says something from like thomas the tank engine, then all of a sudden people are staring at you. >> they have this amazing ability even if they're not swearing it sounds like they're swearing. i'm in the store with my kid and he says, what's up, f-face? i was like, what, what did you say? he had just watched something on

thomas the tank engine that sounded like that but wasn't that. but when he said it, it sounded like that. so all the people in the store are staring. i'm like, it's not -- it's not what he's saying. i don't say that. everyone's judging you. you feel -- >> i think -- inju just flew wi my 18-month-old son. there's a lot of -- you know, power everything down. we were talking before about the ipad. i have a lot of trepidation like, am i killing brain cells with the ipad? he's only 18 months old. did he form his brain wrong? the choice is you're out in public and your child -- it's sort of like this thin blue line you walk as a parent. where you want to apiece them but you don't want to hurt them. where's the right place for that balance? because people are staring at you, especially on an airplane. >> i spent seven years trying to figure out the right balance between if you're on the plane minimizing their screen time and yet that's the only thing keeping them from just spazing out and going and just punching people across the aisle. >> right. >> everyone stares at you.

you don't want to be -- the biggest fear is you tonight want to be the worst parent at the playground or on the airplane. you don't want to look like the least competent human being. i have this fear -- i spend too much time worrying about how i look as a parent than i am concerned with the actual act of parenting. i'm too distracted. like, do i look stupid doing this. as opposed to, hey, here's a child i should love and nurture. >> how many kids you have? >> three. probably one too many, right? >> do any of you as parents have the fear, not of getting hurt but of your child inflicting horrible embarrassment upon you, the parent. like the plane rides. the child saying, dad, how does that fat person get in that seat? the person, the overweight person is right there. you go, shut up, you know, get your hand -- >> it happens everywhere. i was playing batting practice with my son.

i threw one a little inside and it got him right where it shouldn't have got him. there were like 20 people at a barbecue. he said, yeah, my daddy hit me in the -- you know, and it hurts. what do i do? like, i can't throw a fastball straight. >> here's what you do. my experience as a 20th century parent, not a 21st century. your children are interested in baseball. you take them out. you get a hard ball. you stand about 15, 20 feet away from them. you have them turn your back, their back to you and then hit him on purpose. tell them you're going to do it. >> you didn't actually do it, did you? that's terrible. >> don't be afraid of the baseball. it's not going to really hurt you. it will sting -- >> it will hurt a lot. it's really hard. >> quick question. i compare your humor -- there's jay leno humor, there's jon stewart humor. you're more jon stewart. was your wife uncomfortable? was any of your relatives uncomfortable? >> no, the nice thing about if

you write a book about that and it has the occasional swear wood, the nice thing, if they pay you enough -- >> or trailer. >> you can be, aren't you so proud of me, it's in a book. they're like, yeah, yeah. i just wish you didn't, you know, but then they have to like it anyway so it's fine. >> a trailer for the book. >> it's unbelievable. >> how did you manage that? >> friends with michael bay, just happens. >> of course, of course. is he one of your children? >> no, he's not one of my children. >> the book is "someone could get hurt." a memoir of 21st century parenthood. you can read an excerpt on our blog. thank you for joining us. ♪

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time for business before the bell with my former colleague, cnbc's kelly evans. "the wall street journal" getting a little busy today saying we're on the verge of the shift. >> some are arguing it's already happening. when you see a front page above the fold byline in "the journal" you'd better pay attention. i'm saying that because it tells you there really is a shift happening. people are still trying to grapple with what exactly is going to be the prospect for global markets. when it's the u.s., japan, europe. now that we're starting to see central banks trying to back away. the dow closed down 117 points yesterday. we've seen selling pressure in japan. selling pressure in europe. again, it comes back to the key question. can the center hold now that

after the four year crisis, central banks are trying to wean economies off their support? this will be the question for the week. >> stand on their own two feet. when i was an internal, i was just happy to be there, getting coffee or whatever. now it turns out we have to pay -- have to pay intern, right? >> i think a lot of people feel that way for internship. you have to give props to the two guys who filed a lawsuit against fox search light pictures saying they worked on a movie a couple years ago performing duties of regular employees without getting paid. the judge yesterday in manhattan ruled in their favor. in fact, said, you know, that there are rules for unpaid internships, that they shouldn't be to the immediate advantage of the employer. the work must be similar to vocational training. and the work must not displace that of regular employees. >> our interns don't do anything. >> what's that? >> i mean, look it. they go to starbucks for us and take it for themselves and sit in a chair. so they won't win anything in

court because we have that on record. >> this is the first of a series of the law suits. we have suits against elite model management. charlie rose as well. judge pauley yesterday also granted class certification to a separate group who filed against fox entertainment group. >> i better be nicer than i guess. cnbc's kelly evans. best of late night up next. ready?

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hey, welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what we learned. somebody's a little wiggy about sex. brian wigging out about the fact -- >> not the thought i had when i looked at my baby girl but okay. >> shows you where his mind is, constantly in the gutter. >> should be more worried about himself. >> i also found out that stamos, he likes your hair. >> he wears so much gel that i now have moisturizer on my arms enough to last a week. >> i love that hair. >> that's a lot of gel. he spends a lot of time on that. >> what have you learned? >> i learned as we're having the hair conversation i was completely left out. >> oh, come on. >> you know, i just -- >> what's the phrase he used? when he put it in?

>> set it and forget it. >> set it and forget it. let's use that across the board. what have you learned today? >> that's what i learned, set it and forget it and get some screens, don't share everything. i apologize. >> stay up all night to think of something like this. >> good guy, nice guy. it's way too early. what time is it? >> it's time for "the daily rundown" with chuck todd. have a great day. protesters and riot police face off in a new round of violent clashes in turkey. the target of all that anger, a three-time democratically elected leader and a critical american ally. landmark immigration reform bill clears its first hurdle in the senate with bipartisan support. but how many of those republicans who voted to start the debate will still be on board when the vote actually comes? in virginia, the ticket is now set for the democrats. in what will be the most watched race in the country this