tv Jansing and Co. MSNBC June 12, 2013 7:00am-8:01am PDT
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good morning. no sign of edward snowden, the guy who admitted to leak top secret documents. but today in briefing, lawmakers will find out more about two controversial nsa programs that look at americans' phone records and internet use. >> i think that what really came out of it is that we need as congress to move forward because this incident that has occurred and debate the issue. and really it's a debate between the public safety, how far we go with public safety, and protecting us from terrorist attacks versus how far we go on the other side. >> meanwhile senator widen wants to start debate by getting more programs declassified and he wants straight answers from the director of national intelligence james clapper. >> it's not possible for the
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congress to tdo the kind of vigorousov oversight if you can get trastraight answer. >> at clu saying the collection of phone records violates the right to free speech, association and privacy. and internet companies including google, meek crow soft, facebook and yahoo! want the government to give them permission to talk about these programs. i want to bring in alex and jackie. am le alex, lawmakers are divided in two camps. some say it's lawmakers fault if they did not seek information. >> if they don't take advantage of this, i can't say enough to say don't -- they shouldn't say i wasn't aware of this because they have had every opportunity
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to be aware of the programs. >> and on the other side, you have the ron widens. thesh they're saying they didn't get straight answers. are they both right? >> they are. harry reid is technically right that it was available to lawmakers. but they had to know what they were asking for and of course the programs were classified, so they didn't know. even if he did ask to review classified documents, you're not allowed to take notes out or consult with your staffs. and they're very complicated jargon heavy kinds of things. >> an both med both messages do resonate well. >> polls have shown the public seems to be comfortable with this. they seem to be comfortable in the past with kinds of things like this. a lot of people still aren't
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paying attention. >> jackie, opinions coming from the fisa court. how might we see more transparency with the programs specifically? can congress really pass something on this? >> you've also heard dianne feinstein who of course is from the in-it tell against committee saying she wants to declassify some of the surveillance programs that have already been released. so maybe you'll see wiggle room with that. one of the interesting things the head of the nsa will testify in front of a senate appropriate yaks yagss committee this afternoon. this was already on the books, but maybe the questions will be different. >> and snowden's long time girlfriend lindsay mills had a blog, she wrote she was a world
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traveling pole dancing super hero. incredibly open about their lives. unlike snowden as you know who has virtually no online presence here. and her friends even saying that mills did not have any idea that this was going to happen and thought her boyfriend, who she called e, was on a business t p trip. does this say anything to you about the kind of person snowden is? >> i think it's fascinating and sort of unprecedented that we have this much information about a leaker. he had by all accounts a good life in hawaii with an 8 year girlfriend who seems popular. so to give that all up suggests you have to be really committed. so hard to just dismiss him as some kind of basement loner. he gave up a lot. so i think we have to take him somewhat seriously because of
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that. >> do these new rely lagss hrevp or hurt the narrative being carried out in washington, d.c.? >> i don't think senators much care about list girlfriend and the life that he had. they're more concerned about the information he released. we don't know how the administration will deal with snowden yet. you do hear senators and members of congress calling him everything from a traitor to all sorts evof things. so we'll see how it plays out about him legally. >> okay. great. jackie and alex, you have a good wednesday. i want to bring in sheila jackson lee. good to see you. harry reid says lawmakers knew about this. you've attended some of these meetings where you got believed on the nsa programs.
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but do you feel that you were well informed, that you were informed about these processes? >> richard, i think the real key is congress has to accept its responsibility for vigorous oversight and that did not occur. i cannot judge individual members. i know that individual members, committee member, i'm on the judiciary committee, we have oversight. i'm on the homeland security committ committee. but the issue is overnight and correction. we have a problem that needs to be corrected when we have 4.9 million people, 21% of them in private contractors where top secret clearance, 483 of them with the highest clearance. so that is one problem. and the other point is we have to answer the questions of the american people that deal with the issue of trust. and that is they believe in use, but they don't believe in abuse. spending time to find the perpetrator is not my focus. my focus is fix the broken system that allows the
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government to troll, to copy any tangible item even with the fisa court. so we need to have disclosure. and one thing is true, members cannot talk to each other, they can't take notes. and what we've determined is as you look at this trolling, some of this should not even be classified. so members can engage and frankly, the runaway private contractor maze is absolutely absurd. >> and i want to get to that. i know there were some 13 briefings on patriot act, 22 meetings on fisa. how many of those did you attend? how many of those did you go to? >> i went to a whole lot and the robe is becau reason is because i was very much involved in writing amendments in a bill which included my language on reverse targeting and the inability to target american citizens.
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so we were actively engaged. as a member of the judiciary committee, we wrote the patriot act in 2001. but remember, i'm on the jurisdictional committee. other people were on the intelligence committee. what is important is declassifying lamp amounts of material that don't point to an investigation on action dealing with terrorists. we must be restrained, but we must also rebuild the trust of the american people. >> so you were thinking of legislation to fix those opportunities that you've just discussed. and part of that is the half a million private contractors that you were alluding to who have security clearance. and about 70% of the intelligence budget going to private firms. dig into your bill about how it would fix some of the problems that you've just described. >> well, again, we can't do it with hysteria, we have to do it with thought. so today ibl sp'll be introduci amendment that calls for a study
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and actual reduction by 25% of private contractors in the intelligence capacity by december 2014. then i want to go methodically to we get to a point where we build a national infrastructure of those who have made a commitment to the service of their nation and that they're's under the auspices of the federal government and it's a different kind of -- >> under the federal government is what you're saying. >> they're in the employ of the federal government. i don't want to denigrate all private contractors and there is a need for them. some are involved in the kind of work that is specialized to their particular technology and proficiency. but this random selection satellite offices in hawaii and other places, lack of oversight, i think the american people can understand if they're making $50,000 a year for hard work and someone is sitting in an office making upwards of $200,000 a year and jeopardizes the national security of america, congress can do something about
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it. >> you have the government hiring the private firm, the private firm going out and hiring contractors. that's edward snow den. bradley manning as another example. what should happen to edward though den? snee d snow den? >> i'm not focused on snow den, but we have to determine if the individual violated the espionage agect and that needs follow the normal process and ultimately prosecution if that is the case. one of the concerns you have to have is the impact on operations and also lives. >> what about brooz ooz allen hamilton? >> without naming any particular company, i hope we can have bipartisan support of my amendment and reduce the utilization of companies that have such a major hold on the
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intelligence community where 98% of their income is in that. and i would say they would be part of the reduction across the board reduction that i hope would occur by december 2014. this is not targeting one particular company. this is targeting the practice. and i think the practice is youtd rage yus and i think most americans would concede to that. and we also would concede there is nothing wrong with getting a ged, but there is something wrong from rising from a ged to top secret access to intelligence that kind pact tco impact the security of the yund and privacy of the american people. congress should not run away from the discussion or lens lags. i plan to introduce legislation that may repeal 501, but also may look to modify it and then strengthen what we call the fisa court. let the court be stronger in its oversight when the justice department and others come forward for these wiretaps. >> just by some saying fisa
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court being a secret court is not necessarily working well. congresswoman, always great to see you. thank you so much for stopping by. >> we have to get working on this for the american people, safety, security and privacy. we're waiting for details about a meeting supposed to happen between turkey's prime minister and protesters. things are much calmer in taksim square. police and protesters are still there, but mostly milling around. traffic moving. shops are open. but big difference from a very violent night. in colorado, at least 60 homes have been sfraeeen destro filed wire. and flames are engaging more than 2500 homes. here is a look at ariels over
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the white house is trying to breathe new life into the gun control debate. next week vice president biden will host the first public gun event since the senate rejected a back ground checks bill in april. and next hour, senator joe manchin will meet with family members who lost loved ones in the sandy hook elementary school tragedy six months ago today. let's bring in rob cox. rob, thanks for being with us. in addition to senator mar chin, you also will be meeting with
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speaker boehner. how might you be able to sway them to support another try at gun legislation? >> it will depend on what manchin and toomey and other folks can do to make it get through the senate. you really do have to get the senate to show overwhelming support for this over and above the 60 you need to get over the filibuster. so they will need to do some things. this is pot is politics. you need some sweeteners. there are things that you can look at. if you look at the approval ratings for manchin and toomey in their states and nationally, i don't think you need much more incentive if you're watching your approval ratings going this way because you voted against something that 90% of the american people believes it's a no-brainer. far the house, boehner said he
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won't put it out there without the senate having first approved it. i think it's a rare moment when that tail will wag the dog and i don't think we'll see it here, but there is a lot of know men it item. almost 200 votes already for a sort of copycat bill that senator peter king has co-signed. >> what sweeteners would you suggest? >> i'm not -- far be it from me to suggest exactly what these folks need. they need to be able to go back and be able to say here is why i voted against it and why i'm voting for it. so it has to be something that's probably got a mental health element to it because every time you talk to the folks who voted against, they immediately pivot, one might say divert, to the mental health question. now, these families that are my neighbors and friends, they are looking at it from all different angle, whether community,
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responsible parenting, gun safety, mental health is a huge part of it. everyone believes you have to have a holistic approach. and you have to have a nonlegislative approach. at the end of the day, a lot of these decisions that are made have to be made in the home by parents, by people teaching people the right way to care for their guns or care for their children. >> talk about the parents that you've been speaking with swrels yo as well as your perspective. if something doesn't get done, some might ask how likely it is that something will happen. >> yesterday we were in a meeting and i'm again just helping these friends and families who are in my town to help navigate some of the stuff. and i sat there and watched as peter king talked about some of the difficulties, yet another example where people with say the government can't be trusted, let not pass any new laws. but at one point, three of them, bill sherlock who lost his wife,
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mary, she lunged at the shooter and lost her life doing so, nicole lost her little boy dylan and mark lost his son daniel, all three at the same time totally spontaneously chimed in and said congresscongressman, w going thir. so the idea that it sdwnt get can done now or doesn't get done next week or doesn't get done in three months, guess what, they will still be here. they're basically going to keep coming at the house and the senate until we fix our gun legislative problems in this country. so they're not going away and it will keep coming back even though this week will be the six month anniversary, december 14th a one year anniversary, they will keep coming back. and i'm amazed by the resolve of these people. >> they are amazing individuals. rob cox, thank you for your time today. in the last hour, ariel
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castro pleaded not guilty during a believe appearance in court there. castro is charged with 329 counts stemming from the kidnapping of a man today berry, gina dejesus and michelle knight. he's accused of holding the three for more than one decade, repeatedly raping them and fathering a child with one of the women. we make meeting times, lunch times and conference times. but what we'd rather be making are tee times.
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every state in this union. now, we'll stay here and see that the things that the mayor has said become a reality. >> evers was gunned down at his home in front of his wife and three young children in 1963 in mississippi. when all white university mississippi law school rejected him, key have left, but he decided to stay to investigate violence against blacks. his wife vowed to keep his him oth memory alive. i'm joined by his widwidow. thank you for being with us. >> it's my pleasure. >> you appeared with former president bill clinton last week. you said commemorations of your husband's death unexpectedly affect you in a way with anger. where is that directed towards would you say? >> i think the anger that
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surfaced, and i'm a little surprised really, came from the fact that we still have so much to do. and the fact that medger is finally becoming known throughout america and world as a type of sell for me. but i've just been surprised at the suppressed anger that i had still exists. you think you've gotten over it and something comes along and it triggers it up again. but not in the very negative sense of where you want to go out and hurt someone. you want to hurt an unfair system and open that up to all americans. >> smart of the system is something your late husband pushed for, and that was black voting rights. when you see the voting rights
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act before the supreme court today with the possibility of parts of it being struck down, does it still channel the same emotion that you were just discussing? >> yes. and america should consider what the supreme court does. but we need assistance in ensuring the opportunity to register and stroet vote for al americans. if you look at what happened in the last election, there are all kinds of keeps that were put fort from keeping people waiting for hours to having three or four kinds of identification before they can register.h from waiting for hours to having three or four kinds of identification before they can register. techniques have changed and we have to change our strategies along with it. because the most important thing that we have in this country is a freedom to be able to register
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and to vote and let our voice be heard. so it's and ongoing thing and something that i cannot shrink from in terms of my duties to his memory and to my people and to america as a whole. so i'll continue to work toward that effort. >> and to your legacy, as well. what i found very chilling, i was reading some of the history 60 years ago to the current day. you sitting down with your husband on a couch 50 years ago, talking about the dangers as he was going out into the community trying to make change and you discuss what to do if he were to be killed and you said you'd take care of your three children. >> that is what he told me. he said when my time comes -- and we both knew that it would be shortly. you just know by everything that happens and the mood, the attitudes, what not.
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he said take care of my children and keep pushing. keep pushing. and he told me you're much stronger than you think you are. and he was right. but one of my motivating factors has been to keep his name and memory before the public. so often we hear of one or two civil rights activists and that's all you get in the history books, in the classroom, in the community. and there are so many people along with medgar who helped to make positive change in america. so it's been one of my ongoing things. remember this man, what he did and what he gave. and i think i'm the biggest cheerleader that he has. >> absolutely. and as part of that, and you have new foundation, the medgar evers institute, a goal to reach out to young people, especially
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young women. why is that important to you here? >> i think women as a whole have kind of gotten a short stick with all of this. they have contributed so much to the basic functions of this country and the future. and we are still treated something some what in the business world, ministerial world, every place you look, we are second class citizens. we don't like to admit it, but it's true. people need to know that they need to be aware of it. i'm just so hopeful that the institute will be a place where people can come and study, where they can write, where they can engage people in their communities. it's krit erkly important. it's not to say that there aren't other organizations that exist that provide the same
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services. but i'd like to see us fine tune those and spread that information and techniques across the nation, not just in mississippi. >> i want to get your reflection on somebody that i'm sure you've talked about, and that's nelson mandela as he remains hospitalized in south africa. you can give us your thoughts on his legacy? >> first of all, my prayers are with medical son mandela and his family. he is irreplaceable in all walks of life, not just south africa. i have watched the news and heard this is going to be the last hour. but then i hear a reversal that his health is improving. don't underestimate that man.
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he is leaving such a strong drive of freedom and justice throughout this world. so whatever time he has left, and we never know when the time is coming for us to make our departure, he is leaving such a legacy that bodily he would be missed, but emotionally, religiously and every other way, he will be with us. and i think all we can do is pray for him and be able to thank him for all that he has done for humankind. because the man is truly great and he will be with us whether it's in body or just in mind. so we wish him the best, his family the best. and who knows.
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he might become even greater if he is not with us, but we pray for his health, we pray for him being here, continuing to be a guide for us. and it's so important that we recognize these leaders internationally and that we recognize them nationally. this 50th anniversary of medgar's assassination is not a sad one, but one to focus on the work that i did to be able to say thank you for what you did. and we can say thank you nelson mandela for all that you have done and to show our love, to show our appreciation, we move forward on those things that you taught us was so important. and we do it in your name. >> and thank you, as well, for what you have done and continue to do. and for being here today. widow of medgar evers. appreciate your time.
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>> thank you. we'll go to chris jansing who has made her way to pretoria south africa. you heard we were just speaking about nelson mandela. how is he doing? >> reporter: well, we finally on day five of this hospitalization got some good news. just a short time ago, nbc confirming with several members of his family that he is doing much better, he is responding to treatment. in fact family members told us that they are relaxed and optimistic about the progress he is making and they are hopeful that he may be able to go home. we were able to talk to one of his grandsons. take a listen. >> we have received the prayers and messages from the community and we say thank you and we appreciate all your support that you have shown to our
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grandfather. >> reporter: it would be difficult to overstate the importance of nelson mandela to this country and really around the world. he often talked about the simple rights struggle in the united states and talked about the reverend martin luther king. people have been watching it so closely here. you can see behind me at the gates of the hospital, there have been people going by, standing nearby. at his home and here, they have been coming to pay their respects to leave flowers, in some cases messages. and frankly, all the media that is here, it's attracted quite a bit of attention. but again, dave five. a day five about and after president zuma said were a difficult several day, a much better statement this afternoon.
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think you now how much you're eating? most people don't. a recent study showed that two thirds of people underestimate the calorie count in the food they eat by an average of 175 calories and about a quarter of those underestimate by at least 500 calories. major setback for new legislation aimed at stopping sexual assaults in the military. carl levin is dropping the measure proposed to give military prosecutors rather than commanders the power to decide which sexual assault crimes to try. levin will replace it with a measure that would require a senior military officer to review decisions by commanders who decline to prosecute sexual
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assault cases. le levin's measure would keep it within the chain of command. that's an idea supported by military brass. i want to bring in jeanne shaheen, co-sponsor of gillibrand's bill. senator, thank you for being here. you heard senator levin has moved to delete that part of the discussion yesterday. did that surprise you? >> it didn't because what we knew after the hearing last week on sexual assault and the opposition we heard from virtually everybody serving in the military was that this was going to be an uphill battle. but the fact is it's been more than 20 years since the military leadership declared zero tolerance policy on sexual assault in the military. and yet we have seen recent high profile actions that show that this is still a huge problem.
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a recent report says that it's worse now than it was two years ago. over 26,000 estimated cases, only at over 3,000 of those were reported. so i think we need to do something fundamentally different if we're going to address this problem. >> as we look at it, the measure that you co-sponsored had 26 other co-sponsors including four republicans along with you. yet it still couldn't get through. how big of a setback is this, this decision by the chair, senator levin? >> well, obviously we'll continue to work on other changes that can help address sexual assault in the military. all of us on the armed services committee and i think everyone in this country appreciates the sacrifice and the service of our men and women serving in uniform. and they don't deserve to have this stain on their good work by
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a few who are doing wrong by other members of the military. >> what changes would you suggest, perhaps bringing back the act again k4 ythat which yo co-sponsored? >> we'll have to continue to look at that. we'll see how some of the other changes that are being proposed will affect what's currently happening with respect to sexual assault. but one of the things that i think came up at the hearing last week that we haven't really heard whether our military leadership is willing to fully explore is what's happened in those countries who are our allies like canada and great britain and israel who have taken these crimes outside of the chain of command and it's working very well. so the suggestion that this was going to undermine morale i think needs to really be looked carefully at. >> okay. thank you so much, jeanne shaheen. appreciate it. today's tweet of date, sales
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. it surprise the even some of the bill supporters. a day after a rare overwhelming vote of more than 80 senators to debate the immigration bill. senator tim kaine, a former missionary in honduras, giving his floor speech entirely in spanish to voice his support. [ speaking foreign language ] >> very rare. despite the lopsided votes, republicans served notice they will seek to toughen the border security provisions and requirements on those who are
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seeking to gain legal status. >> in the days ahead there will need to be major changes to this bill if it's going to become law. >> and before the vote, the bill got a major boost from president obama who gave his full endorsement to the plan this hour yesterday. i'm joined now by amy holmes and managing director of research at purple strategies. amy, were you surprised by the magnitude of the vote? >> i was surprised to move forward on a controversial bill that splits both parties. but it seems that this is an issue that both parties feel needs to be tackled in a sincere way. you remember that president bush tried it get reform passed. unfortunately at the end it fell apart. again because of the way that it split both parties.
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>> how keep is the support when we move into the actual decision to vote on the bill? >> that's a very good question and as you saw, mitch mcconnell has said the bill needs to strengthen border security. but democratic senate majority leader harry reid said the amendment that would do that was a poisoned pill which i think does not bode well for being able to get that bipartisan agreement on passing the bill. >> some of the reaction here, senator marco rubio has had mixed messages in the lead up to the vote. but then yesterday after the vote, he says this, this shows people are open minded and ready to do immigration reform. that's what he said. so to you, what rubio is the one to really help get this deal done? >> i'm not sure which rubio will help get the deal done, but i can tell you which american people -- what the person people believe. and overwhelmingly the american people support congress coming together. who knew this was the issue where we would have bipartisan
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support. if you told me a couple years ago this would be the issue where people may be coming to the taebble, i'd be surprised. but even republicans in the latest poll say they want a path to citizenship. people want to see a real path to citizenship for people who have to meet a few basic standards. pay back taxes, pay a fine, learn english, so on. also the bill does already include strengthening border security. the poison pill piece would make a variety of strict standards that then would be the trigger for the path to citizenship. that's what makes that a real digression from coming together to move forward on this. >> those are the two major issues in the front right now. amy, senate democrats also not on the same page. reid and as well as dick durbin want to be more forceful thinking republicans are in in
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corner with waning vote from lae la tee knows. is that the way to go? >> there is some speculation that democrats and the president don't really want immigration to pass, that they want to put republicans on the record for opposing comprehensive immigration reform so it would hurt them with latino voters. but looking at the border security element, it's a big debate. there are some that say if you have instant legalization as this comprehensive bill proposes that you will never get the border security. so you need the border security first and then you can see the path to citizenship. again, that will be a real sticking point. john boehner has said that while he expects that they will see immigration reform plan passed in the house, it will be significantly to the right of the bill in the senate. and again, with this process, both sides have to come together to be able to get it done. >> margie, what's the fine line? chuck schumer trying to look at how he can bring republican
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amendments to the forehere and get it done. what do you think? >> yeah, i think democrats and the american people and i think a lot of republican voters want to see a real deal get made and that means having a large number of votes. i think what the american people want is real action and leadership. >> okay. appreciate it. that wraps up the hour. thomas roberts is up next. good morning. coming up, our agenda in the next hour, the international man of mystery, where in the world is edward snowden? we'll have the latest on the international man hunt. and the new revelations about his state side girlfriend, plus we'll check in with the aclu which is suing to stop the nsa from collecting americans' phone records. george zimmerman back in court. lawyers are searching for jurors. the attorney for trayvon martin's family will join me live. and michael bloomberg is ask
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donors to shut their wallets to democratic senators who helped block a bill on background checks. with an irregular hea. the usual, bob? not today. [ male announcer ] bob has afib: atrial fibrillation not caused by a heart valve problem, a condition that puts him at greater risk for a stroke. [ gps ] turn left. i don't think so. [ male announcer ] for years, bob took warfarin, and made a monthly trip to the clinic to get his blood tested. but not anymore. bob's doctor recommended a different option: once-a-day xarelto®. xarelto® is the first and only once-a-day prescription blood thinner for patients with afib not caused by a heart valve problem, that doesn't require routine blood monitoring. like warfarin, xarelto® is proven effective to reduce the risk of an afib-related stroke. there is limited data on how these drugs compare when warfarin is well managed. no routine blood monitoring means bob can spend his extra time however he likes. new zealand!
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good morning. topping our agenda, nsa leaker edward snowden remains on the lam, but they're working to track his digital trail. edward snowden's last known address was a hotel in hong kong. uk guardian says he's thought to be in a safe house. take a look. hig his girlfriend back in the u.s., a 28-year-old named lindsay mills. mills' father had this to say about thousnowden. >> he's always had strong convictions of right and wrong and it kind of makes sense, but still shocking. >> head of 9 the national security agency will be back on
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the him. keith alexander will face tough questions. ron widen is calling for public hearings. he and seven other senators also introducing legislation that could partially lift the veil. >> it's not possible for the congress to do the kind of vigorous oversight that the president spoke about if you can't get straight answers. >> the aclu meanwhile has filed suit against the director of national intelligence. they claim the secret surveillance giving, quote, the government a comprehensive rourd of our associations and public movements revealing a wealth of detail about familial, political, professional, religious associations. and then three tech giants are seeking permission to publicly disclose the requests for information that they have received from uncle sam. a lot of moving parts and a lot to catch you up on. joining me is
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