>> thank you, chris. >> thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. this is evelyn rivera, 24 years old, evelyn moved to the united states from colombia with her family when she was a toddler, she was just three years old when she got here. you might be able to tell from the family resemblance and the similar smiles, the lady standing beside evelyn in this photo is her mom, yolonda. they look-alike, right? this is the portion of the fence that separates the united states and mexico. it's located in the towns of nogales. it separates nogales arizona from the town in mexico that is also called nogales. this particular part of the pennsylvania is new. the old one was torn down about a year ago. this one was built in its place. it's said to be safer, better at keeping people out. it's 20 feet high in most spots. that 20 or 30 foot high fence made of steel and concrete. that is the physical thing that you see in this picture.

that is the structure there that separates evelyn from her mom in this photo. evelyn is on the american side of the fence, her mom is on the mexican side. before this picture was taken yesterday, evelyn had not seen her mom for more than six years. she's 24, she had not seen her mom since she was a teenager. evelyn is called a dreamer, someone who grew up in this country and has never really known any other country in her whole life. she does not have legal status here. evelyn's mom yolonda was deported after being pulled over in a routine traffic stop in florida more than six years ago. evelyn cannot leave the united states to see her mom, if she left she would not be allowed back into the united states. and her mom obviously cannot enter the united states to see her daughter either because she was deported and she's barred

from coming back. a pro immigration reform group called united we dream raised donations to pay for their travel and arranged for evelyn and two other dreamer kids like her to travel to that specific spot at the fence in nogales, arizona yesterday. united we dream arranged for their moms to meet on the other side of the fence in nogales, mexico. the moment these kids get to see their mothers for the first time in years is an amazing moment. and as you watch this, you'll notice there's a second -- there's a moment in this tape where the sound drops out, but that is on purpose. there's nothing wrong, watch this, it's incredible. ♪ [ sobbing ] [ silence ]

>> the fact that for these young people, the price of staying in the only country they have ever known as home, the price of that is no longer being able to see their moms without a steel and concrete fence between them physically, the human pain caused by separating these mothers and their children has no up side. causing this barrier between mothers and kids benefits no one. nothing good comes of the circumstance for our country or mexico or the country where they came from or anybody else. whether or not you like the policy that causes this result nobody can argue that this result itself has positive value. it is the end result of the immigration system that we have right now in this country.

the pain that comes through in these images today. that pain is acute. it is also not necessarily unique. this particular greeting through the fence is something for which these folks had help yesterday in nogales, it has not only happened that way because some group organized it. in regular, unorganized just personal family life, there are people who -- this is how they see their families. they routinely see their families through the fences that we have built at our borders. they cannot leave because they maybe would not be let back in. their families cannot come here to see them. we split up the family. this cannot be the thing we're trying to do as a country. the goal cannot be let's divide families. whatever you think about the role of imgrarnts in this country and a nation of laws. we have a system where kids who live here their entire lives in this country to give their moms a hug get banished. that's the deal now. everybody has different values when it comes to immigration,

right? ideological values, personal values, things you may have learned in your own experience, in books. but when these are the outcomes of the unfixed system that we have right now, pretty much everybody has to recognize that the system that we have right now that produces these bizarre and pointless outcomes is a problem. it's one thing to realize that sometimes policy hurts people. it's another thing to see a policy hurting people in ways that are stupid and pointless. that seems to be what president obama was getting at yesterday when he talked about immigration at the white house. >> right now our immigration system keeps families apart for years at a time. even for folks who technically under the legal immigration system should be eligible to become citizens but it is so long and so cumbersome, so

bizantyne that families end up being celebrated for years because of a backlog of visas, people who came here legally, were ready to give their all to earn their place in america, end up waiting for years to join their loved ones here in the united states. it's not right, but that's the broken system we have today. >> the young woman who introduced president obama yesterday is herself a dreamer. she's originally from nigeria. she grew up here since she was 14. she has a degree in chemical engineering. she found herself unable to get a job in that field because she doesn't have legal status here. and yet here she is introducing the president at the white house saying she is ready to come out of the shadows. today this video featuring immigrants and the children of immigrants who themselves work

at the white house was released by the white house itself. >> we haval these stories and we have this interwoven experience of having come here for a common purpose which is to make a better life. and from that we can aspire to so much as people as immigrants as children of immigrants to achieve really amazing things. >> i think what's at stake here is that we need to make sure that we are in a place where our actions match our ideals and continue to be a place of hope for the rest of the world. >> these are stories of real people, real families, husbands and wives, kids who want to be together in one country. >> my parents left everything behind in iran. >> i learned english, mostly through sesame street, we began to make friends and do really well. >> we look forward, when you think about what's at stake

through immigration reform. it's a continuation of what we've always been, both a nation of laws and a nation of immigrants. >> monica the woman who learned english from sesame street is now a staff assistant at the white house. the deputy assistant of broadcast media was featured there. the white house deputy director of operations and continuity all immigrants or children of immigrants. this is what it looks like when the white house is working hard to make a pitch on policy. in this case on immigration policy. making the case that we as a country need to fix our dumb system and we need that to happen as soon as possible. immigration working well is really important for our can't. historically, it's more important than it has been for any other country in the whole world. the senate yesterday cleared by a bigger margin than anybody thought. yesterday they cleared the first hurdle toward passing immigration reform. they needed 60 votes, they got 82.

the vote was 82 to 15 to beat the republican filibuster and start the debate. now that that debate has started we expect to see the senate wrangling over this for weeks. the wrangling is underway. as that debate wrangling begins for real. the people who want immigration reform the most, the people with the most at stake, the immigrant communities to whom this legislation makes a huge impact in their lives and this white house, who has been pushing for this so hard, we see them with events like this, and tapes like this that they're releasing pulling out all the stops. doing everything they can to make their case by giving this issue a face that makes it not justess sew terik policy. it's not just the white house and not just immigrant communities who are making that case. the case including the personal case is now coming from some previously unexpected corners

like this guy, congressman paul ryan. after the bill gets through the senate, it will go to the house. and republican house speaker john boehner spoke yesterday positively -- or at least not negly about the possibility of reform passing the house too. he hinted he might bring it up for a vote, even if it is mostly democrats in the house who support it, and only a minority of republicans. there's paul ryan today doing an event to talk about the need for immigration reform to pass. and talking about it in a personal way. he's got his phone out there, what he's referring to on the phone is something he has brought out before when he talked about this issue, to make it personal. it's an 1850 poster that he says was a poster of advice to immigrants from ireland. which he says his ancestors read about life in america as they were trying to get to america. he's telling his personal story. also, nbc news reporting today that a group called republicans

for immigration reform is about to start running ads in favor of reform. even targeting individual house republicans to persuade them to vote yes. a republican vote. a really mainstream republican group is doing that. if this happens, it's as big a deal as health reform or wall street reform, or anything else legislatively that's happened in this post bush and cheney era of politics. but weighing the prospects for whether or not it's all going to happen means paying attention to how the republicans and democrats talk to each other. we watch the people most directly affected by these policies make their case too. the people who are not advocating on behalf of their ancestors. not talking about immigrant values and how their families got here generations ago, they're dealing with right now, fighting for a change in the law that will change their own lives today. and that will change their children's lives definitely. and maybe even change their

mom's lives. those people at the center of this debate making their case. joining us now is jose antonio vargas, he lived in the u.s. since he was 12. he didn't know he was here without documentation until he tried to get his driver's license. he's travelled the country talking about immigration reform. it's nice to see you. >> thank you for having me. >> you as a reporter and as somebody who's just a generally articulate guy, you've been able to make the policy case from the beginning, but you made this decision personally to try to tell your personal story as a way of making the case. why does the personal part of this matter so much? >> it matters a lot, because i was inspired by people like ronada and carlos and evelyn. those are the three young people you saw on that fence. i was inspired by them. not enough credit can be said of the united we dream. this is one of the most

singularly most powerful actions that any immigration group has taken in this debate. the fact that they took the chance and planned this, and really boiled down what this is about. we had this wrangling happening within the republican party and the congress, what is immigration reform about? that's what it's about. it's about what separates us from each other being a fence. this is not republican or democrat. people ask me all the time, what is immigration reform to me. to me, it's a driver's license, a green card, and it's a passport so i can see my mother who i haven't seen for almost 20 years. that's what immigration reform is about to me. >> when you make that case, and you've been making that case now -- >> two years. >> it's been almost exactly two years, hasn't it? >> yes, my first time was on this show, two years ago next week, can you believe that? >> that's amazing. do you feel like the conversations you were having with people, once they hear the story from you, have changed over the course of two years? we're as close as we've ever

been to this happening. >> i think we've hit -- the tipping point certainly has happened. and i think now we have different voices coming -- let me give you an example. this morning in the front page of the new york times above the fold was ronada one of the three young dreamers and her mother. i posted it on my facebook wall. i think shared 600 times by various people, republican, democrat saying this is what immigration reform is about. i feel like as we get distracted by the numbers and by some of the amendments that rubio and grassley and all the other republican senators are introducing, people are realizing we're talking about individual people with individual stories and a broken immigration system means broken families which means broken lives. that's what this is about. >> when you look at the way that it's starting in the senate now, there was a giant vote to move forward. >> yes. >> you can go down the rabbit hole focusing on all the issues of the amendments.

everyone's guessing it's going to pass the senate. are there changes you see brewing in terms of what could happen to this legislation that you think would make it not worth it? is there anything you think is a game changer or game breaker you're worried about? >> this question of citizenship. this question of citizenship. a lot of the amendments coming to the floor right now are about, should there be a path to citizenship for people like me? all i know is in 21st century america there is no thing as second class citizenship. our senators are only revealing themselves to history. when history comes down looking at grassley and jeff sessions of alabama what is it going to say? this is inevitable. this bill is going to pass the senate and it's going to get through the house. the country has changed. it will continue to change. you're absolutely right, rachel. this is just as big a deal if

not more so than health care reform. this is the way our country looks. >> jose antonio vargas is a pulitzer prize winning journalist. written and directed a new film about his story. it's called documented, it's going to premiere at an american film institute screening next friday. not nervous, are you? >> i'm just happy we're going to make it and the premiere is next friday. if you're in d.c. check it out. >> jose, thank you so much. we'll be right back. [ jennifer garner ] why can't powerful sunscreen feel great? actually it can. neutrogena® ultra sheer. its superior uva uvb protection helps prevent early skin aging and skin cancer, all with the cleanest feel. it's the best for your skin. neutrogena® ultra sheer.

something totally bizarre happened in wisconsin today. >> sit down! right now! call the role. >> what that was all about is next.

republicans in the wisconsin senate today passed a mandatory ultrasound bill. look at what happened when they took the vote. the guy you will see completely losing his mind here is the republican president of the state senate presiding over the vote. he's the guy in glasses. watch what happens when he forces through this vote on the forced ultrasound bill. watch this. >> i move the body vote immediately on the current question. >> the question before the house is nondebatable. >> the question before the house is nondebatable. the clerk will call the role. >> senator carpenter. kohl's, cullen. >> call the role. >> darling. >> you're out of order.

>> ellis. >> sit down. you're not recognized. the question before the house is nondebatable. call the role. >> carpenter. coles. all members of the committee vote in favor except for carpenter coles -- >> the question before the body is passage of the bill. a role call will be required the clerk will call the role. >> senator carpenter. >> coles. >> you're interrupting a role call sit down. right now. call the role. >> senator carpenter, coles, cullen. >> you're interrupting a role call and that will not be tolerated. sit down. >> remember the whole idea of wisconsin nice?

yeah, that's over in wisconsin with these guys in charge. amazing this guy thinks he's to be more trusted than you are with questions of sensitive medical procedures you should have and not you. he should decide. because of this outburst, i do not know if tomorrow in wisconsin the headlines are going to be about how badly the republican leadership just lost it when they passed this thing today. or whether the headlines will be about what it was they passed. the bottom line is that in wisconsin, just like republicans did in virginia. just like republicans did in texas. wisconsin republicans today passed a bill that orders you by law to have a medical procedure against your will, even against your doctor's will if you want to have an abortion in the state. will there be any political repercussions for republicans in wisconsin for them doing this? it has passed the republican controlled senate in wisconsin today. it will now go to the republican controlled house, where it is

also expected to pass. and then it will go to the republican governor who says he's looking forward to signing it. >> democrats in wisconsin do not think they can stop republicans from doing this. when this passes, wisconsin women are going to be forced to buy the state government to have medically unnecessary procedures against their will. and the same bill is expected to close more of the women's health centers in the state. they've only shut down half of them. there's only four clinics in the whole state that provide abortions now. this state will shut down one of the remaining four if not more. plus the forced ultrasounds, plus the sit down and shut up way they did it. will there be a political cost for this in wisconsin? will there be a cost? what stops this train? >> sit down! right now! call the role. in the great state of virginia, one of the original forced ultrasound states, thanks

in the great state of virginia, one of the original forced ultrasound states, thanks to virginia republicans, one of the first states that decided they would force women to have medically unnecessary procedures as a price for having an abortion in that state. in that state, something interesting just happened. virginia always has its statewide elections in off years. for all their statewide races, virginia does them in off years, their 2013 is like everybody else's 2012. statewide job openings in this election year in virginia include governor, lieutenant governor and attorney general. all the big ones.

the republican party of virginia handpicked their candidates for those jobs this year. they scrapped the whole primary vote thing and used a convention to crown their candidates. that resulted in the off the hook far right slate of republican nominees they got themselves. larry sabido says this is the most right wing caucus to run in the state ever. the dynamic ended up being, in the lieutenant governor's race, the guy on the right was very heavily favored to win the lieutenant governor nomination. he seemed to have everything going for him, impressive resume. he worked as secretary of technology for a previous virginia governor, carries himself really well, and is really good at politics, has a great personal story. really smart, he's the eldest

son of immigrants. jon stewart once compared him to george clooney. he outspent the other guy in the race by a lot. his opponent is the guy on the left. soft spoken, long time state senator. a pediatric neurologist. and he's been in the state senate for about five years now. no national profile really, no national connections to call on. and he had a lot less money for this race than the other guy. there was an upset in this race. the state senator doctor from the virginia shore is the one who won. and he won after making essentially the centerpiece of his campaign. his efforts to stop virginia republicans and their forced trans vaginal ultrasound bill. that's what he put in his campaign ads, his role fighting republicans on that. >> when ken and his crowd in richmond pushed the trans vaginal ultrasound bill, we knew what to do. there was one person to turn to. >> there is no reason that a group of legislators should be telling women what she should and shun the be doing with their

bodies. >> i want to shout out to ralph who has led the charge to repeal that ultrasound bill. >> i authorize this message. >> that is how democrats are competing for statewide office in virginia now. and the guy who ran that ad is the one who won even though he was financially outgunned. same dynamic at work in the attorney general race. it was mark herring who won after running ads like these. these are three different ads. >> mark herring, the backbone to do what's right for virginia. defend a woman's right to choose. when republicans went after women's health care, mark stood up and fought back. >> i don't believe politicians in richmond have any business interfering with women's personal contraception decisions.

i'll keep politics out of women's health care and put the law first. >> and he won statewide primary in virginia yesterday for attorney general. the reproductive rights community. the advocates nationwide they talk a lot about making the defense of reproductive rights a positive electoral thing, right? making it so that defending those rights can get you in the win column in those elections. that is apparently at work in virginia right now. it's an experiment. a petrie dish in which the democratic party is grogan electoral incentive for showing a willingness to fight for abortion rights when the republicans are making an attack on abortion rights, the central part of the way they govern. we've just seen it work in a democratic primary in virginia. we'll see how it works in the fall in the general election against those republicans. but with the republicans in the house of representatives in washington today, voting again today for a new nationwide abortion ban, frankly all eyes

on virginia to see how this electoral strategy experiment plays out in the end. weigh you down?

as soon as you feel it, try miralax. it works differently than other laxatives. it draws water into your colon to unblock your system naturally. don't wait to feel great. miralax. 1980 there was a movie called "the blue lagoon."

tonight we have a real blue lagoon that has an awesome plot. it's a total nightmare. that story is coming up with no brooke shields in it, i swear.

if you enlist in the u.s.

if you enlist in the u.s. army, you start as a private go through basic combat training and your job is to carry out orders, no matter who gives them to you. next rung up the ladder is private first class, which is a step up, but they still call you private. after that, it's specialist, you can get thereafter two years as a private or get a head start and start as a specialist if you have a four-year college degree when you enlist and show up at basic training. after specialist, it's corporal, you get into the higher ranks that have three stripes that stand for sergeant. you see how all the insignia all have the three stripes there, it goes from sergeant to staff sergeant, sergeant first class if you start enlisting. it's a whole different list of

ranks and titles if you're an officer. second lieutenant, first lieutenant, captain, major, lieutenant colonel, then full bird colonel, that's just one rank below general. the lowest rank of an officer is second lieutenant. if you go to west point when you graduate, by virtue of the fact that you graduated from west point you are a second lieutenant. and expected to work your way up from there. you're responsible of doing a minimum of five years active duty in the army and another three years in the army reserve. you expect when you graduate from west point you're going to be shipping out as a new officer to fight that war. in the past decade that's how it has worked, 93 west point graduates have been killed in

action since 9/11, over this year and next year, presumably, expectations are changing a little por west point grads. the war in iraq has ended already, the war in afghanistan is supposed to end at the end of next year. these young new second lieutenants in the west point class of 2013 and 2014 they will likely find themselves in a strange position of having spent their whole adult lives and whole army career thus far at west point in the context of these big deadly long wars that the country is actively fighting but they can be pretty sure they will not be joining once they graduate and go on to active duty. it's an unusual position for these young officers to be training for war, all the while knowing they will not be fighting this big long war that's been happening the whole time they've been doing their training. the last class of young officers who went through the same kind of strange situation that's happening now for these young cadets was the west point class of 1974. it was a u.s. military presence

in vietnam all the way back to the 1950s. they started fighting full bore in vietnam in 1965, the war raged through the late 60s until the 70s up until late 1973 when u.s. military involvement in vietnam ended. it was the west point class of 1974, the first class of young officers to have lived their whole adult lives, training for combat and army leadership at west point in the context of this big deadly long war, but upon graduating in 1974, they knew they did not have to go to that war, because u.s. involvement there was over. and in that one class, that one class of 1974 at west point, that one year there was the man who is now the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, general martin dempsey and general david petraeus, was head of the cia and commander of the iraq war and afghanistan war and general keith alexander, who runs the nsa, he heads up the largest intelligence agency of any kind

in the entire world, and he simultaneously runs the fastest growing part of the united states armed services. cyber command. petraeus, chairman of the joint chiefs and alexander. head of the nsa and cyber command all in the same class from west point which was the first class to graduate once the vietnam war was really and truly over. the new leaks about how much the nsa is spying on us, despite their agreement to only spy on people in other countries. the huge amount of attention that these new revelations is obscured a little bit. these are just the latest in a long series of revelations of how the nsa is spying on us. from the time martin dempsey and alexander petraeus were just getting out of west point. >> the select committee made its first inquiries last may. >> the church committee, headed by senator frank church of idaho, exposed widespread abuses

of power at the fbi and the cia. and revealed that the nsa had been spying on americans for decades. >> what was operation shamrock. >> it was a program of the national security agency to collect, to obtain access to telegrams that were leaving the united states for other countries. and the idea was that they -- the nsa would look through these telegrams, look for telegrams of interest from a foreign intelligence standpoint. >> are you saying all the telegrams going out of the u.s.? how did they get access? >> they asked -- i mean, that sounds very simplistic, but they approach the communications carriers, the telegraph companies concern. >> ica, itt.

>> and western union. >> so in operation shamrock, what we saw was the nsa turning its foreign intelligence operations internally on american communications? >> exactly, yeah. operation shamrock was getting access to all the communications coming into, going out of and going through the united states. >> there were very few rules back then. very few laws, regulations that dealt with what nsa or any intelligence agency could collect back then. the capabilities were there. the restraints weren't there. the temptation is to do it. >> the committee believes that serious legal and constitutional questions are raised by this program. >> the nsa had been founded in the 1950s. by the 1970s the revelations about what they were shocking the country about what they were doing with telegrams -- by 1982, the puzzle palace, we were just on the verge of the computing revolution. remember "time" magazine named the personal computer machine of the year in 1983. imagine how nsa's capabilities have changed since then.

by the 2000s, the nsa's computing power was being put to use in the form of wholesale tapping of internet and phone communications. by 2005 we had all that wiretapping and the nsa making and taking its own copying of what it had on the internet. we've had these allegations since the nsa was born. and since guys like james banford started reporting on all the secret things the nsa does. these revelations that periodically shock us about what they do they basically never result in them stopping doing this thing that is shocking us. the programs, even the revealed programs, the leaked programs, they don't go away. they just expand over time. if we're weirded out by the power of the nsa, their power so far is something that only grows. so how does that end? joining us tonight for the interview is james banford, the original and foremost historian

of the nsa. his newest book about general keith went on line at wired.com at the top of the show. thanks for being here. >> great to be here again. >> in silent war, this article you published at wired. it seems like you are trying to convey the immense power that keith alexander has that is underappreciated. why do we not understand how powerful he is in the agencies he runs? >> he's the most powerful figure in the history of the united states. there's never been an official with this much power. in addition to that, he's head of the cyber command. the cyber command under that, he's got an army -- he's got the second army under him, 24th air force. he's got an army, navy and air force under him.

so -- and he's a four-star general, the first time you've had an nsa director as a four-star general. he's been there, next year he'll be there nine years. in terms of the length of time, the amount of power he's accumulated. the amount of responsibility, intelligence and the military and cyber and so forth, it's just an enormous amount of power for a person that nobody would recognize if he walked down the street on pennsylvania avenue and washington. >> is it correct to say that over time as there have been revelations about things the nsa does that weird us out for a period of time, like we're being weirded out by these new revelations. they have not resulted in a contraction of power or the nsa stopping those programs that have been revealed? >> it worked. in 1978 when they created the

foreign intelligence surveillance court. from then until 2001, the nsa owe bad the law and everything went fine. it was when the bush administration decided to go around the court, just bypass the law, the surveillance act, that's when everything started collapsing. and then when -- after it was discovered congress which was now extremely weak on these whole issues as opposed to when frank church was running the intelligence committees, they basically took what was illegal during the bush administration and make it legal. and then leave an enormous hole open for whatever else they want to do, and make the whole thing secret. we're basically back to the pre'78 days when the time when shamrock was going and before we really had a working fisa court, the fisa court as it is now has basically neutered, useless. >> that's why i wanted to talk to you about this in particular. you have chronicled the way that nsa power has grown. it's grown because of technology, but also it's grown because it can. and because of secrecy. when they did get brushed back in the 1970s, it was because

congress stood up on its hind legs and made them. is the congress capable of doing that now? >> well, he is the most powerful intelligence figure in the history of the united states, there has never been an intelligence official with this much power. he is head of the largest agency on the earth. and in addition to that he is head of the cyber command. the cyber command, under that, he has the second army under him. the 24th air force and the tenth fleet, the army, navy and air force under him. and he is a four-star general, the first time you ever had a director of the nsa as a four-star general, so in the length of time, the power he accumulated, the amount of the responsibility and the cyber, it is just an enormous amount of power for somebody who nobody would recognize if he walked down the street in washington. >> is it correct to say there were revelations for things that the nsa does, that would weird us out, that those revelations

have not resulted in a contraction of power or the nsa stopping those programs that have been revealed? >> well, it worked in 1978 when they created the surveillance court. >> you don't sound hopeful, if you're not hopeful, how do you think it ends? >> it is just more accumulation of power and more infringement on privacy. i mean, george orwell wrote about it in 1974, when governments accumulate the power and use the surveillance engines

to keep the power going. i think that is the problem we have here. look at keith alexander, been there nine years, the largest intelligence agencies are under him, and when i interviewed people for this article all the cia they said we referred to keith alexander as emperor alexander, because whatever keith wants, keith gets. >> it is impressive research, as always, that you always bring to this topic, but it is great to have you here and help to understand it, thank you very much. >> james bamford, also the author of "the puzzle palace." on line at wired.com, we'll be right back.

okay, first of all, we just put the wrong insignia on screen and now, behold, a hamster ball, this is what a hamster ball looks like, grabby things on the inside. if you are a hamster you can have an awesome hamster time running on the inside of your hamster ball, and thus perambulating around your human apartment. now, this is a kitten who apparently loves the hamster ball, the kitten, i think his name is tom-tom, he gets inside the ball, rolls around a little bit. plays with his feet. it is true, he is a little bit stuck when he is in there, but only in a way he likes, because he can totally get out when he wants to. and sometimes he wants to get out of the hamster ball, but you know what? he wants to get right back in. kitty cat in the hamster wheel. we posted that on our blog last summer, we said we know it is a metaphor for something, but

can't figure out what. our producer posted the video saying this means something. the men war policy, republicans in the tea party. john huntsman, and hit the comments, this political metaphor needs you. of course, you guys totally nailed it. and the point where actions taken to get out of the situation and actions causing one to get further in the situation, seems to be indistinguishable. also you can't tell if somebody is trying to get out of the problem or trying to make it worse. for reference cross index, o'donnell and christine, or, weiner anthony, and the press conference that was not made better by the press conference. so from time to time, we need help with the metaphors in the making. what does this mean? this cat in the hamster, or the seal on the surf board.

what does it mean? how about the chinese hurdler who doesn't care? who just bangs straight into the hurdlers and jumps over them. what does it mean. mitt romney playing jinga the night of every debate. if there is a god, it is a god that gives us the power to think in metaphors, sometimes we just need to put it on the blog to crowd source to figure out the answer. or it has to go on tv. but this one, i don't know what it is explained for. i think there is something here. this is a pool known to the locals there in england as the blue lagoon. it is pretty, right? the blue lagoon. lots of people forget they're there, they're simply unable to resist the pool's clear, blue waters, like a siren song, it calls out to them to bathe, and pretend you're in the bahamas. in the same toxic waters that have the same ph balance as

chlorine bleach. swimming around in those waters has caused stomach illnesses, rashes, it is not like there are not signs around the blue lagoon warning about the dead animals and trash and car parts and stuff that died that is lurking in the pretty blue water. but the water is too pretty. people can't help themselves. the local council tried everything, but they could not keep people out. they decided there was no way to drain the pool and they couldn't keep people out of it. people kept jumping into the blue water. and so they came up with a dramatic solution to their pretty blue lagoon problem. they dyed it back, they dyed it back so people would find it ugly instead of pretty, so people would find that it was toxic and no good for swimming.

as public policy, it is genius. as another matter, i have no idea. now it is time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell, "first look" is up next. good thursday morning. right now on "first look", 19 states and nearly 62 million americans all in a massive line of storms rolling from west to east. political fire storms over surveillance for national security. comments on abortion. and how to handle syria. new lungs for a philly girl and just in the nick of time. plus, could a flying bicycle be in your future? a very close call with a guide dog and a real life jaws. i think you're going to neat a bigger boat. good morning. i'm marra schiavocampo. a massive line of thunderstorms could impact more than one in five americans