we're having a little fun with our new name the washington redski redskins. to john tower see what they should be named if they had to pull the name. >> washington carpetbaggers, washington bones, our favorites, david putnam, the washington filibuster, great blocking but the team never seems to make any progress. the washington orangemen, the mascot would be john boehner. >> wow. i won't talk about any tobacco. a lot of word play on dot, dot, dot skins, i'll keep it pg and say some were funny. to "morning joe" which starts

right now. ♪ to insure that they were limiting their searches to nonamericans, prism's data's an fa list would key in search terms designed to produce at least 51% confidence in a target's foreignness. they just used search terms americans weren't familiar with such as portion control, paid maternity leave and -- >> good morning. it is thursday, june 13th. welcome to "morning joe." >> it is thursday. not friday. oh, my god. with us on set msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele, another proud day for your party. we'll get to that. and former governor of vermont and former chairman of the

democratic national committee, howard dean. >> every day is a proud day for -- >> it is nice to be here. >> boy. >> he just -- >> yeah. >> that's what i hear all the time. >> oh, come on now. that's just not true. what are you doing, looking for smut? forget it. there isn't any. >> see what's on the page of the new york -- >> we have a new todd akin in the house. >> that's good. >> we'll get to that in a second. that was incredible. >> only one todd akin. >> no. no. we have bill clinton. we'll start with him. lot of different angles to the nsa story. we'll get to that in just a moment. former president bill clinton has tough words for president obama appearing to split with the administration on how to handle the crisis in syria. politico obtained audio from a closed press event. the former president held with senator john mccain on tuesday. in the event clinton implied that president obama risks looking like a, quote, total fool if he listens too closely

to opinion polls and acts too cautiously and the american people like presidents, quote, to win. clinton sided with mccain, agreeing that more action needs to be taken, quote, now that russian, the iranians and hezbollah are in there head over heels 90 miles to nothing, should we try to do something to slow their gains and rebalance the power so the rebel groups have a decent chance to prevail. if you refuse to act and cause a calamity the one thing you cannot say when all the eggs have been broken, oh, my god, two years ago there was a poll that said 80% of you were against it. you would look like a total fool. >> fascinating because it talks about a split in the democratic party. this is a bill clinton who was president, even in his own mind, by what happened in rwanda, we sat back, did nothing, because of what happened in somalia. somalia was an ugly situation.

this president decided after rwanda to go into bosnia, and kosovo, and be along with madeleine albright and others, a humanitarian hawk. susan rice, a humanitarian hawk. but in this case, you've got bill clinton looking at barack obama, who quite frankly is a bit more reserved. >> i think this is an interesting one. this is what president clinton is doing is fighting the last war, his war, the nightmare in rwanda. he became a huge hero for doing what the europeans should have done but didn't, save lives and bring peace not balkans. this is a different situation. here's the problem. i tend to be a little hawkish, believe it or not, despite the fact i was against the iraq war. the problem that bill clinton has and the reason that president obama is right on this one, is because the rebel group in syria has now been infiltrated by al qaeda. a case two days ago where a 14-year-old boy was pulled out of a kiosk at a fair and had his

head chopped off by the rebels. this is the not the rebels we like. there are very good people and six months ago had we come in ons the side of the rebels that would have been one thing. now we're supporting the same kind of people we supported in afghanistan, one of whom turned out to be osama bin laden. this is a problem. >> it's a lot like what happened when we, you know -- you go in and if you go in too late, you don't have a good resistance group and the same thing happened in libya. >> right. >> where we went in and we weren't really sure who we were supporting. but i think, mika, bill clinton makes a good point when he talks about what's happening on the other side where you've got the russians and you've got iran and you've got hezbollah working around the clock to determine the outcome while we sit on the sidelines. >> every day you have the plea for some sort of involvement. having said that, obviously if it were easy it would be

something -- you even said yourself, a lot of people have come on this show and talked about how engaged we are and how stretched thin we are. i don't think it's a simple decision. >> it's not. >> to get involved in any way. once you do -- >> yep. >> you're pulled in more and more and more. >> what is simple. if you're a republican. >> yeah. >> not talking about rape. >> right. >> if you find them -- i don't know. you know, these trend lines on this, on this worldwide web, and there's certain things you can go back and see trends. when republicans start trying to diminish the consequences of rape usually doesn't turn out well for them. >> and now republicans attacking this particular republican in a way they didn't with todd akin. mika has the story. >> mika has the story, the todd akin desk right now? >> in a debate in congress to ban abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy the bill's sponsor congressman trent franks of

arizona said this. >> the incidence of rape resulting in pregnancy are very low, but when you make that exception -- when you make that exception, there's usually a requirement to report the rape within 48 hours and in this case, that's impossible because this is -- this is in the sixth month of gestation. >> i find it astonishing to hear a phrase repeated that the "incidence of pregnancy of rape is low." there's no scientific basis for that and the idea that the republican men on this committee think they can tell the women of america that they have to carry to term the product of a rape is outrageous. >> michael steele, that obviously follows up on not only todd akin but others talking about medically, that if a woman is raped the self-defense

mechanisms magically come into play and stop them from getting pregna pregnant. >> why are we having this discussion. >> because republicans -- because guys like him keep bringing it up. >> as a pro life republican, this is not something that's part of the national debate right now. americans are concerned about syria, concerned about the economy, things where the republicans can be leading and moving women and moving americans across the spectrum to our argument. >> it's really nonstop. we always have -- republicans, i hear republicans out and about, just outraged by this. >> yeah. >> it's like, you know, during the campaign, be you wonder who these people are that go out and say these things and who their staff members and why they want to do such damage to our party? >> and to get into such specifics with the sense of, you know, i know what i'm talking about, when clearly that's not the case, just exacerbates the problem. i think the national party right now really has to find a better

voice. maybe it should just find a voice. >> how about a voice? >> find a voice. >> a voice and why don't they find one to tell the idiots out there to shut up. you know what, before i pass away, i would like to have a republican in the white house again. >> i would too. >> i'm crazy that way. >> that day is looking further and further down the road the way we are going. >> we are so undermined by the shrillist voices in our party that has nothing to do with conservatism. >> it doesn't. that's the driver for me. it is not where the country is. these issues are very personal issues and why we're still trying to legislate them at the federal level to me is just beyond -- >> so the arizona republican did try to walk back his comments, tellsing politico his bill does nothing to restrict abortion before the first five months. reaction was predictable swift and harsh and republican massachusetts senate candidate gabe gomez told abc news, quote, these kinds of comments only

come from a moron. >> that's nice. >> that's speaking up. >> yep. that is speaking out. >> the issue of sexual assaults in the military continues to gain wide spred attention, but there are real divisions on capitol hill over how the pentagon should deal with it. does anyone find that confounding? >> yeah. >> yeah, this is a surprise because senator levin is hardly a right wing conservative. >> what's wrong with people? >> i think -- >> isn't this the united states of america? >> let's explain in case people don't realize. senator levin yesterday. >> yeah. >> threw out the part of claire mccaskill's bill that would stop -- that would -- >> that would stop -- >> that would do more to stop rape. >> sex krooims. >> and carl levin threw it out. >> here's kelly o'donnell with the full report. >> reporter: as part of the senate's new generation. >> many here don't believe the victims. they don't believe the victims. they don't believe chain of command is the problem.

>> reporter: new york democrat kristen gilley brand took on the old guard as what began as a dramatic showdown. >> we violated that trust. >> reporter: between the pentagon's top brass and a record number of women on the armed services committee over the failure to stop military sexual assaults. >> the victims have said i'm not reporting because it's within the chain of command. >> reporter: despite what had looked like the service chiefs being taken to the woodshed. >> this isn't about sex. this is about assaultive domination and violence. >> reporter: the plan backed by gilley brand and two dozen other senators that would have taken the prosecution of these serious crimes out of the military chain of command failed. defense secretary chuck hagel. >> i don't personally believe that you can eliminate the command structure in the military from this process. >> reporter: the top democrat chairman carl levin sided with the pentagon. >> it is harder to hold someone accountable for failure to act if you reduce their power to

act. >> reporter: levin got the committee to agree to some changes, like making retaliation against a victim a crime. >> if you can't get the command system to work, then the whole thing crumbles. >> reporter: but other democrats stuck with gilley brand, insisting that more sweeping change is needed. >> it will look to the victim as though we are simply tinkering with the process. >> i know that the more ron who made the rape comment was a small blip in everything, but that coupled with this, is really, really -- >> carl levin -- >> seriously, what's wrong with people? >> carl levin and, you know, franks -- >> gillibrand -- >> is different. carl levin runs a committee and carl levin is basically siding with all the old men in the military that are saying, let us, if somebody is raped, let us protect ourselves. >> it's siding with the rapists. >> somewhat of a gender war going on in this country and not

about rs versus ds. trent franks and todd akin saying these outrageous things but it's not just a product of that, it's a product of this attitude that, in fact, we can solve these problems in the old way. this is the most extraordinary thing about women of both parties now attaining a really significant number of seats in the senate, not enough, but that debate was run -- was just the beginning opening shot and i think women are not going to put up with this anymore. carl -- i mean carl levin doesn't have the same agenda that a richard murdoch or a todd akin has. >> how do you know? >> i know him. he's not a -- >> let me ask you this -- >> he's not a hate monger. >> who does more caddamage in ts of women's lives? >> this was a big mistake when you are in charge like chuck hagel or carl levin in running an organization where there are tens of thousands of sexual assaults every year you have to hold people accountable. this is like going to the boss of the corporation that sinned

and asking him to fix it. this is a mistake. >> i think this is very important. you know, republicans make stupid comments. you talked about murdoch. who actually is harmed more women richard mourdock or levin with this decision in. >> i think this has a mistake. >> levin. >> with the decision the folks will not be accountable for their decisions inside the military. commanders will make this mistake as they've been backed up by the president, the two most important people in the country that have anything to say about the military that are civilians. >> the old boys are protecting the old guard. gillibrand saw through that as did many of the other women on the committee. >> as did many of the women. >> and they got pushed back on something fundamentally important not just for women, but for the country when it comes to this type of violence. you know, i agree with you, joe. this is a step backwards and, you know, levin, you know, is doing the bidding for the wrong

people. it's that simple. >> internal attitude that happens. >> change in the guard. >> not like senator gillibrand's proposal was radical. most americans would look at this and say this is common sense, strip out out of the command and get an independent review of what's happening. 26,000 self-reported sexual assaults in the military last year. 26,000. that's a huge, huge problem. and the idea when you keep the same structure in place, is outrageous. >> those are the -- >> explain what happens here. what this fight is about. i mean, somebody's accused of rape, right? we go through that -- >> a woman gets assaulted. >> right. it's about who gets to review the case. currently it stays within the military chain of command. so they can create a pro tebtive bubble around it and decide if they want to protect the person against whom the crime was alleged. senator gilley brand wants to take it outside and have a more independent review of the case. that's not a radical proposition. >> and even these days, even if

somebody is found guilty by their peers in the military of rape. >> right. >> a commanding officer can dismiss it. >> and has. and has. this is not uncommon. >> all right. >> and has. it's unbelievable. >> "the new york times" has failure on military sexual assaults. it's distressing that two decades of scandalsle could not persuade mr. levin to budge from his decision to support the military brass. miss gillibrand will try again to get her measure included win the full senate takes up the bill. she's done a bipartisan coalition pressing for sweeping change and further debate about the sexual assault problems and its solutions can help strengthen the result when the state negotiates a final bill with the house. there's still hope. >> yeah. >> but it -- i guess what i'm -- i'm completely perplexed about is that we're even having this conversation. >> yeah. >> it's a generational change, mika. >> it's like the church. >> some ways like the change that you see when young people

under 35 no matter which party they are, mostly in large favor of same-sex marriage and older people are not. this is the kind of change. this is half the population. and i think gillibrand and mccaskill are absolutely right and senator levin is wrong. i don't think it's because he has a a view that women are inferior. i think it's because in this generation, they never had to consider this before and now they're on the front lines and they don't know what to do. >> for balance -- >> this is the wrong decision. >> why don't they listen to the women on the committee telling them that this is the experience of women within the rank and file of our military? this is not rocket science. >> absolutely right. >> i agree with you. i agree with howard. but to clutter things up a little bit senator claire mack cas skill voted with levin. >> that was internal politics and that was a mistake too. >> coming up the former director of the national security agency michael hayden joins us and supreme court expert jeffery

toobin and the co-founder of aol, steve case. it's a big show tomorrow, we'll talk to former president bill clinton, and chicago mayor rahm emanuel and john mellencampp and stephen king. up next the top stories in the politico playbook. first bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> we went into last night at a high risk of severe weather. we we highly populated areas, chicago and indianapolis, made it through without any fatalities or widespread injuries. that is a great morning. it was anticipated to be a lot worse. we'll take it. there is damage. there's cleanup to be done. still people without power. a couple tens of thousands but again, it was not the horrible weather experience that we thought was possible. so we're still dealing with severe storms. they rolled overnight through ohio, now heading through pittsburgh. downed trees and power outages in the pittsburgh area. now we will wait and watch the thunderstorms as they begin to slowly weaken as they head towards philadelphia, townsend and washington, d.c. and baltimore as we go throughout the end of the rush hour.

for d.c. the timing probably 8:00 to 10:00 and later this afternoon, if we get some sunshine in this region we could do it all over again, a possibility of a few tornadoes around the d.c. area and richmond and southern portions there of jersey, baltimore maryland. we'll watch that again later today. so we get one shot this morning, another risk later on this afternoon into this evening. new york city, severe weather for you. just another rainy day. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. humans. even when we cross our t's and dot our i's, we still run into problems. namely, other humans. which is why at liberty mutual insurance, auto policies come with new car replacement and accident forgiveness if you qualify.

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hey, good morning. lae take a look at the morning papers. >> i don't mean to interrupt your conversations. >> he's wearing the chicago blackhawks. >> yeah. >> t-shirt. >> looks like a 5-year-old over there. >> if -- actually the goal had gone the other direction, what would have happened? >> what. >> he would have been wearing a bruins t-shirt. you know it. >> that's risky. because he's going to flick you off or do something. anyhow. >> exactly. >> lae do the papers. you want to go ahead. >> i would love for you to. >> "philadelphia inquirer" sarah murnaghan suffering from cystic fibrosis received new lungs yesterday at the children's hospital of philadelphia. murnaghan was at the center of the debate over donor waiting

lists. a ruling by a pennsylvania judge last week relaxed the rules, allowed her to be placed on the adult donor list and following a six-hour procedure doctors are optimistic about her recovery and her aunt spoke following the procedure. >> they were able to resize the adult lungs without any issue. it was a perfect fit into sarah and the surgery is done and she's heading to recovery. we expect her to be, you know, doing some things within the next couple days and taking her first breaths so we can't wait for that. and she really did well. so we're very, very excited and we're very, very thankful. >> and from the cleveland plain dealer ariel castro the ohio man accused of holding three women captive in his home for a decade pleaded not guilty to 329 counts of rape, torture and murder. castro's lawyers hope to reach a settlement to prevent the case from going to trial. >> let's go to the san antonio express, new census data indicates for the first time in more than a century yearly debts

now exceed the amount of births among white americans in the u.s. racial and ethnic minorities are growing more rapidly than whites. the shift comes many years before the change was expected by the government. >> "the wall street journal" u.s. oil production grew by over 1 million barrels per day last year. that is the largest increase of any country in the world and the largest increase in u.s. history. now the controversial method of fracking is largely responsible for this boom. crude production jumped in the u.s. 14% last year and mika, this is why "the wall street journal" had an article that many are predicting we're going to be the number one exporter of oil by 2020. that's just a revolution. that is an economic revolution. >> it changes the dynamic on many levels. "usa today," facebook is jumping on the hash tag bandwagon. the web side announced it will adopt the symbol into the function of the site allowing

users to track trending topics beginning immediately users can access hashtags in the main facebook search bar. do you understand what i'm saying? >> yeah. >> cool. >> two maintenance workers were trapped nearly 500 feet off the ground on the 45th floor of the building in midtown manhattan yesterday after the scaffolding appeared to have snapped in half. >> that's a bad day. >> they were left suspended in the air for close to an hour and a half, but firefighters eventually were able to cut open a window. >> oh, my lord. >> and pull them to safety. oh, my lord is right. >> you don't like heights. >> no. >> japan times, the record holder for the world's oldest living person died yesterday after reaching the age of 116. he was born in 1897. the title of oldest living person is held by a 115-year-old japanese woman from osaka, japan. >> to willie for the politico playbook. >> a foot ♪

the oldest living american, mike barnicle. >> oh. >> little history made here as well. sorry, mike. cheap shot. joining us us now the editor in chief john harris. >> good morning, willie. >> let's talk immigration as it pertains to senator marco rubio, a lot of people pointing out he contradicted himself over the weekend saying something to a spanish language audience different to english speaking crowds. on univision sunday senator rubio said this. let's be clear, nobody is talking about preventing the legalization. the legalization is going to happen. that means the following will happen. first comes legalization and then the measures to secure the border. that is a bit different than what rubio had been saying previously that border security was the top priority in fixing our immigration system. big problem, small problem for senator rubio? >> you know, this rhetorical misstep is maybe a small problem, acknowledged it and said he was clumsy with his wording. the reason he's clumsy with his wording his political situation

is really difficult and he is managing that in a somewhat uncoordinated way. that's a bigger problem. he's obviously trying to do two things. one, show himself as a critical force in getting immigration reform passed. overwhelmingly popular with the public. increasingly so with republicans. he wants to get this done and be the face of hispanic republicans. on the other hand doesn't want to lose his conservative code. really a more consequential illustration of this kind of clumsiness in rubio's role is going on in the senate this week with this border security measure that john cornyn has passed. john mccain, chuck schumer have called it a poison pill and will basically kill immigration reform. rubio has spoken positively of this. what he's done is raised the bar for getting republican votes by praising the cornyn bill, something his colleagues in the gang of eight -- he's made it much the politics of immigration

in the senate much trickier. >> michael steele, as someone who has run the party, how important is this immigration debate? >> i think it's hugely important. i think it has not just short term, but significantly long-term ramifications for the success of the party and i take note, john, to your comment, but also the back story here, is i think manifest in what we see this morning in erick erickson's morning briefing at red state which he says, quote, marco rubio is being played the fool or we conservatives are being played the fool by the senator on this immigration bill and so now you're beginning to see a lot of conservatives begin to look at rubio, which goes to your point about his political problem, and saying what the heck are you doing? this is counter to everything that we believe should be first and foremost in terms of the type of immigration policy that country should be looking at, but the political dynamics are such that the country is behind a more broad, expansive policy.

>> john. >> he's trying to play both sides of the street. that's what successful politicians do, they play both sides and try to get a deal in the center. if marco rubio is critical to getting that deal, all the stuff will seem like static. but i agree, he has seemed very clumsy in both his public comments and internal maneuvering in the senate this week. >> all right. john harris with a look at the politico playbook, thanks so much. coming up, great game late into the night to begin the stanley cup finals last night. triple overtime classic in chicago. sports is next. is like hammering.

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i'm not going to say anything about the outstanding qualities of the chicago blackhawks.

i'm not going to say anything. >> that's president obama. chicago fan. in massachusetts yesterday. >> i was going to say, did they increase secret service? boston you don't say things like that. >> thought it was a playful joke. this is boston. >> it's hockey. >> they don't care who you are. he's got his hometown chicago blackhawks facing the boston bruins in the stanley cup finals and what a start to the series last night, a game that ended about five hours ago. straight to triple o.t. tied at 3-3. 12 minutes in, the 117th shot of the night. goes in. chicago's andrew shaw. he wins the fifth longest stanley cup finals game in history. both teams do have a little time to rest up. game two is saturday night back in chicago. this has been a great series. >> one of the great stanley cups ever, two original six teams, the bruins were involved in an earlier game against toronto, another original six team where it went to the seventh game and overtime. >> two great talents too.

>> yeah. and two uvm guys on the chicago black hawks. >> oh. >> uvm check in there. >> back pages of the papers here, jason kidd who retired from playing last week will be named today the new head coach of the brooklyn nets. the future hall of famer retired june 3rd. studying the inns and outs of coaching. billy king thinks he's the man to bring them to the next level. he played for the nets for seven seasons. he's also, it's important to note, a good friend of deron williams, the star on the brooklyn nets, which probably had a lot to do with the nets inviting kidd in. tim tebow news, we told you he signed with the patriots. how is tom brady feeling about that? >> any time a new teammate comes in you welcome them and, you know, try to do whatever you can to help them fit in and understand what we need to do. it's been a fun couple days. >> listen, don't overemphasize

things. >> tom brady. by the way, the patriots gave tebow a two-year deal with no guaranteed money. very low risk proposition. baseball, ceremonial first pitch we've never seen before. 13-year-old nick legrand is fighting a life threatening bone marrow disease, cannot travel outside the state of missouri. he threw a pitch in kansas city as a robot 1800 miles away in oakland tossed the first pinch at the a's/yankee game yesterday in oakland. technology allowed him to pitch. the robot simulated the pitch from missouri he was able to throw out the first pitch. very cool. little golf news, the weather will be a big factor at the u.s. open which starts today. a derecho is forecast to slam into the area and wreak major havoc on the first round. assuming the players are able to tee off today. tiger woods comes in as a favorite as he always does.

soggy conditions could be to his advantage. he hits the ball pretty far. the weather could be a factor for phil mickelson too. he attended his daughter's eighth grade graduation in california last night and scheduled to land in pennsylvania at 4:30 a.m. local time. his tee time, 7:11 a.m. let's hope he got sleep on his private jet. coming up next, bloomberg business week's josh green joins us for the must-read opinion pages. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. can acne cleansers be tough on breakouts

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how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s.

and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪ 41 past the hour. joining us now, senior national correspondent for "bloomberg business week" josh green. we'll read your piece, at least a part of it, just coming up. but we haven't gotten to this story yet today. this headline.

the head of the nsa is vowing to make public more evidence that he says proves the government's secret surveillance of phone calls has helped stop terrorist threats. general keith alexander told the senate appropriations committee that the electronic programs prevented dozens of attacks. >> great harm has already been done by opening this up and the consequence, i believe, is our security is jeopardized. there's no doubt in my mind that we will lose capabilities as a result of this and that not only the united states, but those allies that we have helped will no longer be as safe as they were two weeks ago. >> isn't there any way that snowden will get to him in a second, michael steele, because at this point it's about trust, isn't there any way a small bipartisan group of lawmakers can see everything? is there any way we can help not get to transparency, full transparn circumstance but some

sort of sense of trust given all that's been revealed? >> there are checks and balances on that issue been the congress. >> apparently they're not good enough. >> but they're not good enough. to the extent that people on -- we have members of congress saying i did not know, i was not informed, i was unaware. >> others saying i was able to see things but i wasn't allowed to bring staff to explain it to me. >> right. that says something. >> not a very compelling argument. >> right. that doesn't instill a lot of confidence either. >> that's what i thought. >> so the fact of the matter is, we are in this new area and we've been here for a while, this is the first time we've had to confront the post-9/11 patriot act environment in which, you know, national security bumps up against privacy rights and all the other expectations we have as citizens. >> ever-changing technology. >> ever-changing technology. the government now has to find a way through its representatives to navigate through this where like to your point, there is

transparency, but we are also protecting that very valuable information that's being garnered. >> the man who revealed that classified data, edward snowden, it tells a hong kong newspaper that u.s. government has been hacking china's computers for years. the 29-year-old is likely facing criminal charges for his actions. congressman peter king is doubling down on his position that the journalist who published snowden's documents, glen greenwald, should also be punished. >> greenwald not only did he disclose this information, he has said he has names of cia agents and assets around the world and they're threatening to disclose that. the last time that was done in this country, we saw a cia chief murdered in greece. no right is absolute. even the press has certain restrictions. it's targeted, very selective and serb certainly a rare exception but when you have someone who has disclosed secrets like this and threatens

to release more, to me, yes, there has to be legal action should be taken against him. >> josh, a journalist yourself, what do you make of what peter king is saying? is that -- >> cheap grandstanding. going after a journalist, implying that glenn greenwald is going to identify his cia agents is kind of nuts. in fact, the media has been pretty responsible on this case. "post" held back much of the information snowden tried to leak. made decisions about what they would and wouldn't publicize. this is just king running his mouth and -- >> oh, my gosh. >> trying to seize headlines. >> wouldn't be the first time. >> when we had greenwald on earlier this week, i guess on monday, glenn greenwald, i asked him, where's the line for you? he believes sun light is the best disinfectant as a lot of us do, but how much is okay to release? he said, i'm not out to expose everything that's going on. i'm not out to expose troop movements and things that will put people in harm's way. there are things the american

public has the right to know. he's not going to expose cia agents. he's not an irresponsible guy. you may disagree with what he's doing on some level but he's not putting it out there willie nilly. >> i don't claim to be his best friend, but i think he's doing his job. and every journalist has a different approach and he can't be kiboshed. sun light is the best disinfectant until you get burned in a case like this. i think that this could go any direction at this point. let's take a move to the irs scandalle. because in your piece, joshg josh, on congressman darrell issa and the irs investigation you write in part, quote, after a burst of attention his investigation appears to have stalled even though he turned up embarrassing official. dressed up as spock? oh, was that him? issas hasn't made the all-important connection to the white house. and he may not be able to.

the news this week that he won't release the full transcript of his interviews with irs officials interviews he selectively quoted from to imply white house complicity, suggests that what they contain may, in fact, exonerate the administration of the very charge issa is laboring so hard to prosecute. in theory, issa could be building a case against the white house to rival watergate that he just isn't quite ready to unveil but that's highly unlikely. it seems like there might be a power with issa in situations like this. i remember the cable from the state department that he was, you know, holding up and i think on cable news, calling out the administration and the secretary of state for signing off on things and that was like a stamp that goes on every letter. >> when republicans took over the house two years ago, issa was expected to be this great star, real power as a chairman of the oversight committee. we've seen chairman like henry

waxman to get aggressive with an administration, expose wrong doing and help the party get back in power. it hasn't panned out. he's talked a lot. he's brought attention to issues like fast and furious which excited conservative talk radio and here was an example of the scandal the american people cared about, really upset about, and threatened the obama white house and it's been a month now and we haven't had that connection to the white house. >> and the reason for that is because he is the story. as opposed to allowing the facts to unfold and bringing the public to a narrative that lays out very clearly what happened and who was involved. you don't start by saying, they did it. >> always jumping the gun? and not prove they did it. you cannot -- that's why you have republicans on the hill going would you capitol hill it, bring it down, step back. no need to be the front man. >> the person behind focusing on

conservative groups or tea party organizations was a conservative? >> yes. that was a kind of a -- >> kind of -- >> counter -- leak isn't the right word. elijah cummings the ranking member sigh sa's counter part on the committee released selective quotes with interviews with irs officials and said one of them was a self-described conservative republican who basically said there's nothing going on here, there was no malfeasance. the danger for issa is that he's taking these irs interviews and selectively publicized certain quotes to imply widespread wrongdoing to suggest that obama is guilty, complicit, nixonian and he hasn't backed it pup the fact that he hasn't released the full transcripts suggests he can't back it up. >> if he puts it out it contradicts everything he's been implying there is a connection to the white house? >> politicians like issa and cummings, they operate in their own self-interest. if there was a smoking gun that

testimony you can bet issa would be willing to reveal it. the fact that he hasn't, the fact that the democrat is the one pushing to reveal this stuff, suggests to me, anyway, that there isn't any evidence in there to back up the charges that issa has been making over the past couple weeks. >> i think there's a job for him as a late night comedy show editor. josh green, thank you so much. coming up, new jersey governor chris christie gives brian williams a run for his money by slow jam the news with jimmy fallon. oh, lord. willie's news you can't use is next. i want to make things more secure. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t

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no other country can match that history. and what was true years ago is still true today. who's beeping over there? you're feeling kind of self-conscious, aren't you? that's okay. >> got to put that on vibrate. got to put the phone on vibrate. >> it happens. >> go to the white house. time for news you can't use. chris christie, a man who would like perhaps to be the next president of the united states, continuing to impress on the late night seen. slow jamming the news with jimmy

fallon. >> the decisions that need to be made in washington are too great to be determined by an appointee for 18 months. what we don't need is another unelected politician just sitting around in congress. whether it's in the senate or the house of representatives. >>. ♪ take it from my man the love gov ♪ ♪ when he sits around the house of representatives he really sits around the house of representatives ♪ >> these costs can't be measured against the value of having an elected member of the united states senate. that's why i'm throwing my full weight behind this decision. ♪ oh, oh, oh, come on ♪ come on now, christy cream doughnut ♪

♪ how are you going to be setting me up like that it's too easy it's not even funny ♪ >> isn't that what your audience says every night? >> ouch. yeah, that's right. it hurts. so step off, brother. >> isn't that what your bathroom scale says every night? >> oh. oh. >> he walked into it, though. >> cute, cute, cute. coming up next, new insight on the nsa leak from someone who knows the agency better than most, not jon meacham, of course. >> right. >> he knows nothing about it. >> that's all right. he's just standing there. >> if we can pan left and zoom. there it is. we're talking about former director general michael hayden with us. also the other guy with the khakis on. we'll be back in a moment. ♪

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live look at the white house on this hazy somewhat rainy thursday morning. is it thursday? it is still thursday. welcome back to "morning joe." michael steele still with us and joining the table, pulitzer-prize winning historian. >> nsa expert. >> not really an nsa expert. but he's going to play one on tv

or at least ask some questions this morning, jon meacham joins the table. >> what did you do to celebrate bush 41's birthday? >> we had water crest sandwiches. cut the crusts off. >> did you get crazy socks and send them? >> i have crazy socks i got down in houston and i thought about wearing them in honor of our 41st president, but i think it's just his thing now. >> oh. got you. >> i don't want to -- you don't want to be too -- >> well, of course like me, you have no socks on. >> there you go. >> that's true too. >> this is what happens when we get together. >> that's a man in nashville too long. but it's a nice day out, so i didn't. >> you don't have your war torn rain boots on. the head of the nsa is vowing to make public more evidence that he says proves the government's secret surveillance of phone calls has helped

stopped terrorist threats. general keith alexander told the senate appropriations committee that electronic program prevented dozens of attacks. >> great harm has already been done by opening this up and the consequence, i believe, is our security is jeopardized. there's no doubt in my mind that we will lose capabilities as a result of this and not only the united states, but those allies that we have helped, will no longer be as safe as they were two weeks ago. >> the man who revealed that classified data, edward snowden, it tells a hong kong newspaper that the u.s. government has been hacking china's computers for years. the 29-year-old is likely facing criminal charges for his actions. a "time" magazine poll shows just over half of those surveyed believe snowden's leak was a good thing, the number far higher among 18 to 34-year-olds. that seems to make a lot of

sense. 53% believe snowden should be prosecuted. overall, more people approve than disapprove of the government's internet surveillance program. and former president george w. bush gets slightly higher marks than president obama when it comes to who's more careful about protecting privacy. we'll start right there. >> let's put that -- let's just freeze on that right now and let that set in. >> let that breathe. >> i want to hear the screams from the west wing, willie. >> wow. >> could i borrow that. an old friend of ours. >> tim russert. what a country. >> what a country. >> you're right. >> joining us from washington, we have the former director of the national security agency and cia and principal of the chertoff group, general michael hayden, great to have you on the show. good to see you, sir. >> good morning. >> i would like to i guess start with the snowden issue. a lot of people are asking

questions how someone like him, young as him, with his background, could have such access to such classified information and given your expertise and the positions that you have held, are you surprised? >> well, actually, mika, i am included in some of those people you just referred to. i am very surprised that someone like him, fairly low ranking, working for nsa, out in hawaii, able to get access to sensitive documents including the fisa court order. >> so, general, can you give us some examples of how you believe this nsa program has actually thwarted attacks? >> yeah. i mean, i had multiple examples when i was in government with the predecessor of this program, president bush's terrorist surveillance program, we were able to provide leads to domestic law enforcement that led to the arrest of individuals, breaking up of plots, to the better defense of

the united states. >> how has president obama changed the nsa program? obviously it's a bit of a comedy. it's actually a farce of a comedy when you have right wing talkers who supported george bu bush's program who now say this is a grave threat to america's national security and left wing talkers who thought george bush's program was a grave threat to national security but now support the president, this president? is there a big difference between the two programs? >> yeah. actually, president obama didn't change president bush's program. president bush changed president bush's program. the verizon metadata telephone information effort was changed in 2006 and the prism program came out of the amendments to the fisa act, the foreign intelligence surveillance act of 2008. so essentially, what we're doing now, was established within the bush administration.

president obama and folks like me are very happyp that he did it. president obama continued this program and somewhat to his credit, widened the circle of the number of legislatures on capitol hill who had direct access to what nsa is doing. >> there are calls for transparency, calls for changing to the law, to the program. how would you suggest, sir, we move forward here, especially the white house and those in charge of these programs, how to mitigate the damage this has done to questions of trust ands the questions that's raised in terms of our national security? >> well, there are serious tradeoffs to be made here, mika. i agree with general alexander. making more -- having made this part public is harmful. making more public is harmful. it will shave points off of our operational capabilities. i also know, mika, we operate in a democracy. we don't get to do anything for a long period of time without

broad political support and public acceptance. so in this case, i actually think we're going to have to take a little bit of operational loss to make more public exactly what it is we're doing and not doing and why it has been effective in protecting the united states. so i think we'll see a bit few more examples out there of how this program has been successful. >> general hayden, it's willie geist. we've been talking about the prism program for a week now, since the "washington post" and glenn greenwald at "the guardian" broke the story. there still seems to be confusion when i talk to people in private conversations about what exactly the prism program does. i think the conventional wisdom has settled in the government is looking at all our e-mails, skypes, everything that we do privately, the government has an eye on. as someone who has been in the position to oversee these kinds of operations, what exactly does prism do as it concerns a private american citizen? >> right. >> thanks for asking that,

willie. what's happened in the public domain is the press accounts have conflated the verizon story which is very comprehensive and does touch americans' phone bills with the prism story, which is very focused, has to do with foreign communications. let me give you an example. a terrorist in pakistan communicating with a terrorist in yemen, via a chat room, the only thing american about that communication is the fact that it's hosted on a server in redman, washington. this is not about going after americans' information. it's about going after forp information that is resident, that is located in the united states. and that's a product of the change in the foreign intelligence surveillance act of 2008. >> but it does, general, does it not, sweep up all of our information which could be used later and go back? >> it does not. >> not at all. >> what this is, these providers, microsoft and google and so on, get a request, a very

targeted request from the national security agency, that has foreign intelligence value and which nsa believes is based upon foreign nonprotected fourth amendment doesn't apply people overseas. the provider, google, microsoft, and so on, responds to that lawful request and only that lawful request. so these allegations out there now are just wrong in fact. >> there's something that's happened as the story has evolved. i mentioned it yesterday, some of the words to use to describe the program lead people to believe what you were asking was actually happening and when we tried to explain what you did, general, how do you know? how do you know? because if these programs have access to what you were describing why can't you take the next step to listen in on

american's phone calls or watch what's happening in chat rooms. isn't the first step damaging enough to our privacy? >> well no. actually what actually happens matters not what theoretically happens. look, the founders set up competing branches of government. we all fear tyranny, invasiveness into our private lives. the solution from the founders was to create three very competing different branches of government. in this instance, you've got two presidents, both houses of congress and the american court system all agreeing that what is being done is correct and not an unlawful vanj of american privacy. these are always these dangers out there. i'm an american too. i fear an all-powerful state. but it just doesn't get any better than this when it comes to oversight of a lawful activity to keep us not just free, but to keep us safe. >> jon meacham. >> that's a fair argument.

>> do you believe that we are less safe today because of these revelations in the past couple weeks? >> yeah. of course we are. now look, now you're going to ask me to quantify it and that means the national security agency has to give you account on the number of facts it will not uncover. which of course is an impossible task. these folks aren't stupid and when we bring their attention to these kinds of capabilities, we alert them and they exhibit more care so we do lose data. >> jon meacham is going to give you a follow-up question and ask you, to quantify this percentage wise, nearest 100 of a decimal point. >> i'm curious whether the -- it's -- do you believe that sophisticated enemies of america did not basically suspect we were doing this? >> of course they basically suspected we were doing this. but now they've learned an awful lot of the details. >> extent.

>> yeah. >> let me just turn this a little bit on its head. all right. we're talking about this and treating this as news. we're treating this as a revelation and living in a 21st century modern i.t. based society. now you want to suggest to me that a semi literate religious fanatic living in a cave in the hindu knew this was going on all the time. i don't get it. >> wow. okay. michael steele? >> thank you. >> he knocked you all the way back to nashville. penny loafer. >> take your pulitzer with you. >> take your pulitzer with you. i think he was speaking more generally. >> this is a fascinating -- >> it is. >> with -- and i want to take it to another level for the general. you heard peter king, representative peter king yesterday, make the comment about the press and the role that the press has played in these revelations.

and what should be done with the press in terms of revealing or telling their story. what is your thinking, as former nsa director, cia director, when you have a press out there that is handed this information from a third party inside the government, should they sit on it or should they do what we've seen over the last few weeks, put it out there? >> yeah. you know, more so than i think they're giving credit for, the press does sit on some stories. i had a lot of dialog with the press when i was in government. you talk to an editor, you talk to a reporter, and then they hold a story, then they suppress certain facts in a certain when you can convince them that would harm national security. actually, my plea to the press is, if you're going to have an expose, get it right. and i think the most harmful aspect of this story, based upon snowden, was how badly garbled

"the guardian" and "the washington post" got the story, especially the prism story. and it's made it seem, based on the questions you're asking me, far more invasive than it really is. so if you're going to do this, if you're going to get truth to the people, make sure you're dealing with truth. >> all right. >> i think that's fair. >> of course you do. >> no. no. >> we've been saying this for a couple days. >> i feel like everybody has been given the message their phones have been accessed and listened to and their e-mails have been read and it's in the wording and in the emphasis and the hysteria of the reporting. >> all right. general hayden, thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you, general hayden. great to see you. >> thank you. good seeing you. >> take care. come back soon. all right. one more story here, the national rifle association is now targeting senator joe manchin of west virginia for man chin's recent push to expand background checks. here's an ad airing in his state.

>> remember this tv ad. >> i'm joe manchin, i approve this ad because i'll always protect our second amendment rights. >> that was joe manchin's commitments. now man chin is working with president obama and new york mayor michael bloomberg. concerned? you should be. tell senator manchin to honor his commitment to the second amendment. >> oh, my goodness. that's horrible, willie. >> they got him. >> see who he was working with. >> can we show the picture? >> i don't know if we can say that. >> this comes -- >> working with. >> we need to start tapping his e-mails. >> exactly. you see it's an important program. >> no. i think -- >> that image tells it all. i don't know we need to say anything. look who he's working with. >> this is a guy with an a-plus rating from the nra by the way. >> is barack obama -- i don't know. he's shaded oawfully -- i think the shading is rather dramatic

on the side of his face. >> yeah. >> i don't know. is that just -- >> same with bloomberg. >> remember when oj, "time" magazine shaded oj in the mug shot. i think this is -- >> it's all about the lighting. >> let's just look at this and let it breathe for a few seconds. this picture and the photo shopping brought to you by the national rifle association of wayne lapierre. >> good job, guys. >> okay. . that does it. we'll be right back on "morning joe." >> thank you.

19 past the hour. joining us now, legal analyst and staff writer for "the new yorker," jeffrey toobin author of the book "the oath, the obama white house and the supreme court" now out in paperback. great to have you back on the show. >> good morning. >> we're going to start, though, with some opinions that you have about snowden.

>> he's a big fan. >> not really. >> from way back. >> not really, actually. in the new yorker you say, edward snowden is no hero. he wasn't blowing the whistle on anything illegal. he was exposing something that failed to meet his own standards of propriety. the american government and its democracy are flawed institutions, but our system offers legal options to disgruntled government employees and contractors. they can take advantage of federal whistleblower laws. they can bring their complaints to congress. they can try to protest within the institutions where they work, but snowden did none of this. instead, in an act that speak spoos more to his ego than conscience he threw the secrets in the air and trusted good would come out of it. we all have to hope that he's right. i think you make a lot of really, really important points there. i mean it's -- >> you know what's it interesting, the great thing about twitter you learn how many people in the world hate you and

i have -- >> by the way, instantly. >> instantly. >> amazing. look at this. wow. >> complete overlap between the ron paul people who snowden was a contributor and supporter and the ron paul people have rallied around him and those are the people who are not so happy with me. >> i think that's fair and i think i've heard the word whistleblower used many times in the media describing this person. >> i don't know if that term has a specific meaning, but usually what it means, disclosing illegal activities. and remember, this whole thing started by -- being reported in a court order. he disclosed a court order which said this program was legal. it's not illegal. it may not be a good idea but it's clearly not illegal. >> right. >> go ahead. >> i was going to say, i think part of it, too, is the takeaway this is generational. we've talked about this a little bit, where you have this mindset within a lot of millennials and how they view institutions, you

know, the establishsed institutions of this country and the fact that they are keeping secrets and hiding the ball and the opportunity to expose as much of that as possible comes into play which is why you see generationally the snowdens of the world supporting the libertarian notion of privacy and privacy rights and the limited, very limited role of government to keep those kinds of secrets. >> what else -- these are people who have grown up with gmail. >> right. >> when i send a gmail and a golf game, i get ads trying to sell me golf clubs. google is reading my e-mails. so the idea of electronic reading is not something that is -- that is novel or -- i guess that surprises me a little that people who grew up with this technology would be so shocked by it. >> there's a generational cognitive dissonance. they live their lives on-line

and have expectations of privacy and they're not connecting the dots. >> let's move on to the -- "the oath" out in paperback and your provocative point in "the oath" is barack obama is conservative when it comes to the court and roberts is the progressive, i guess you could say -- >> the change agent. >> or at least the change agent. that, of course, though, that theory got challenged by the affordable care act where suddenly roberts seemed to be an institutional conservative at the very least. >> and surprised the hell out of me. that's for sure. >> yeah. >> i don't want to tell you -- >> out of everybody. >> i was -- >> stunning. >> two and a half hours from now -- >> stunning. >> two and a half hours from now we will get more decisions from the supreme court. very likely we're going to get the affirmative action case. each chief justice has a project. earl warren to end segregation. warren burger to be tough on crime. william rehnquist, states

rights. john roberts' mission, i think, is to end the modern civil rights movement. he is going to make it his project to end affirmative action, to get rid of the voting rights act, we started to see it earlier in his tenure, but this is someone who really believes that any sort of racial preferences, any kind of consideration of race, is and should be unconstitutional and that's a big change and we'll see how the country reacts. >> you don't think that's an overstatement that his goal is to end the modern civil rights era? >> what he considers -- i mean, what his version of the modern civil rights movement which is any consideration of race. >> racial preference. >> he had a line in one of his earlier opinions the way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race. >> you've seen the numbers. obviously they've changed a great deal even in the past 20 years. americans are split more than ever on whether there should be racial preferences or not. if that is, in fact, his goal, the country seems to be going

roberts' way. >> that's right. >> however, what matters here, i'm guessing, and, of course, roberts made us all fools for trying to predict what was going to happen with the affordable care act, but is it safe to say in this affirmative action case out of texas we need to be looking at kennedy? >> yes. i think there are four big cases left. there's affirmative action, the admissions case out of the university of texas, there's the future of the voting rights act and two same-sex marriage cases, defense of marriage act and proposition 8 out of california. certainly if you look at the base -- the previous history kennedy is the key vote on all of them. and he has eccentric and sometimes unpredictable views. >> he does. i was going to ask you after reading -- not only reading what he did in affordable care act but actually looking at some of the things that he said to roberts leading up to it, really pressuring roberts to overturn that case, are we seeing with anthony kennedy what happens

with justices through the years that have gotten older, have they become more conservative? is he becoming more conservative? >> not really, i don't think. it depends on the issue. we often describe anthony kennedy mistakenly as a moderate. he is actually rather extreme in his views. he just has ecentric interests. >> okay. >> he has been very strongly for gay rights on the court. he's the author of the two more important gay rights -- he sided with the liberals on death penalty cases frequently. he has a kind of european perspective. spends a lot of time in europe. and he was against the bush administration on all the guantanamo cases. when it comes to the traditional civil rights movement, when it comes to the structure of government like the affordable care act, he's been very conservative with thomas. >> that's fascinating. how is the aileydo -- alito,

roberts squaring off with the bush justices? >> repeatedly. if you look at the next 20 years of the supreme court, it is very likely going to be an intellectual contest between john roberts and elena kagan. they are emerging as the intellectual leaders of those -- of those two. the only question that you need to know the answer to know who is going to win is to know who wins the next presidential elections. it's a matter of numbers. if, you know, our next two presidents are hillary clinton and andrew cuomo, we're going to have one kind of supreme court. if it's marco rubio and ted cruz, a different kind of supreme court. and that, more than the arguments, is what matters. >> the book is "the oath." the obama white house and the supreme court, out in paperback. it's great to have you back on. >> great to be here. >> thank you, jeffery. >> coming up, a surprising change of course from the armed services committee on military sex assaults. why senator carl levin wants to

keep it in the chain of command and why senator claire mccaskill agrees with him? huh? and a storm moves through the midwest and mid-atlantic. bill karins tells us what a derecho is. what's a derecho. >> i have no idea. that's why he's going to tell us. >> you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ man ] on december 17, 1903,

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st. louis, it looks like the front has kicked through. your severe weather threat is over with. you didn't see much down by you. all the nasty stuff was to your north in illinois, indiana and ohio last night. we went into last night thinking it could be a scary scene in the ohio valley including chicago, indianapolis. we actually got through it fairly well. no reports of any fatalities or significant injuries. we had hail, we had a few weak tornadoes. so, you know, we were kind of half lucky, half the forecast wasn't as bad as expected. we'll take it after what we've been through already this spring with the tornadoes. we're not done yet. the severe weather traveled overnight through the ohio valley and now it's arriving in areas of the mid-atlantic. we have a new severe thunderstorm watch up in including areas of southern new jersey, maryland and delaware. a little piece of you as far as atlantic city is concerned. ocean city, maryland, a little to the south of that.

this complex of storms from last night with damaging winds will travel through the washington, d.c., area in about an hour from now. about 8:30 east coast time, winds possible of 50 to 60 miles per hour as that travels through. this what is we'll call round one of the storm. we should see an additional round of storms later today as the cold front moves through. 62 million americans at risk of severe weather today from atlanta to montgomery, savannah, charleston, raleigh, virginia, richmond, washington, d.c., to baltimore and even up towards philadelphia. it's this area of red that we have the best shot of seeing any isolated tornadoes late today and this is if the sun comes out. that's where the damage will be. that's where we're be tracking as we go through the afternoon and evening hours. a highly populated area there of the east coast at risk for some rare tornadoes. coming up next on "morning joe," a reveal of the new cover of "time" magazine. stay tuned. ♪

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[ wind howling ] [ engine revving ] ♪ my buddy tom at the nsa said they -- maybe you can have fun with this. he shot it right up here. this is an actual monitored telephone conversation. just to prove it's not all that useful. >> bob? >> no jim. >> bob there? >> no. >> all right. >> oh, my gosh.

i'm worried. >> like all humor gets an important point. >> it does. with us the new issue of "time" magazine, "time" magazine executive editor redeka jones. >> on the cover are the informers. denary insons of the information age whose ethos and we saw this with edward snowden but bradley manning, court-martial is happening now, and earlier in the year, aaron schwartz was under investigation from the department of justice, these are ideologically driven tech know files who believe wholly the idea that public information should be transparent and visible. >> right. >> on the other hand the other is individual privacy is sack cra sanks and needs to be respected among all else. >> these sound like amazing good things. as we know there's a lot of great area in between them. we're seeing these -- and

they're younger in their 20s, people who have grown up in the information age who have grown up during this like avalanche of information and data and who are used to sharing. put quite simply. >> "time" says the geeks an the leaks. the geeks who leak. the polls were fascinating and showed americans really a bit schizophrenic when it comes to this. you look at snowden and -- >> yeah. >> go ahead. >> they really are. they're a little -- more than 50% say, edward snowed didn't a good thing by leaking this information. on the other hand, also a little bit over 50% say, well, he should be prosecuted. >> all right. >> so there's this -- we want to know but we don't want to know. and then if you split it generational, if you look generationally from 18 to 34, fewer think he should be prosecuted. that makes sense given what we know about younger people's attitudes towards information. >> you also have a story on the dealmaker. >> we do. i love that picture. >> that is a great picture.

>> you can spend 15 minutes looking at his desk. >> i know. chuck schumer, tell us about the dealmaker. >> chuck schumer, you may know, has a reputation as our writer alex altman put it. always more of a soloist. >> right. >> but he's coming into his own as an ensemble player. i keep thinking of biden, you know, at the end of the year, like schumer is now in that role, the legislature, getting things done, and people think if the immigration bill is successful a lot will be because of chuck shumer. >> he's made such a change since he was in the house where he was a real street fighter. now -- i remember early on after newtown he wrote an op-ed telling liberals, get with the program, and "the washington post" get with the program, you need to understand the second amendment guarantees people the right to keep and bear arms, but let's negotiate from that standpoint. >> yeah. >> you would have never dreamed three, four years ago.

>> and that's what story is about, is his evolution to this place. >> yeah. >> it's interesting, too, on that point on the immigration point on how you make the point that he, if it's successful, will be the benefactor of that. contrast that a lot of people think marco rubio is the driver here, but it really is the chuck schumer presence and sort of the glue that's kind of keeping the wheels on this thing to mix a metaphor, to hold it -- >> the winner is the person that can get it done. >> who can get it done. >> in washington. and people are, obviously, desperate for that. they want that to happen. >> jon meacham, as a drunk from the smokies from way back, and he alert med to this story, but i've been noticing this, moonshine, jon it's becoming -- >> national security, we're discussing the evolution of chuck schumer. appears one of the more read stories in this week's magazine will be about the sudden

moonshine. >> most read by you. >> exactly. >> what's happening with that. >> part of the general artisanal movement. i think people -- i would say just like speaking very broadly, people are more and more interested in things that are hyper local, that are -- that have this sort of heritage to them like what's more heritage than moonshine. >> right. in my house we called it income. >> exactly. from a hyper local to hyper personal. the new american way of death. this is a fascinating story. >> i love this story. this is by a great young reporter josh sandburn. and i don't know if you know that the great classic by jessica mittford came out in the '60s the american way of death and she sort of exposed the funeral industry which has gone through a lot of reforms since then, but which was a real money making enterprise. you think about the vulnerability of people who are going through that process. burying a loved one or

something. they're ripe to be taken advantage of. well that was in the '60s. and 3% of the american population chose cremation at that time. by 2017, one out of two americans will choose it. and it's partly because it's less expensive and we've obviously been through a great economic crisis but because our society has changed. we're more mobile and the idea of parking in a cemetery is not how people think about the afterlife anymore which is fascinating. the other thing that josh discusses and there's a photo gallery of it, is that cremation industry allows you to personalize in this way that we're now getting very custom to. if you're a yankees fan, have a yankees urn for your ashes or the man in the lead for this story, he was a lover of fish and sea life so he's part of a coral reef. >> this is the lead. george allen, you can be sprinkled in a moonshine.

son of columbus, ohio, resident of georgia, one time bartender, restaurant manager, real estate agent, motorcyclist, owner of aquarium maintenance business, alcoholics noted joke ter, died may 28th, 2010, at age 50. now he is a reef and off of pensacola beach, my hometown. they actually started in pensacola, i guess. they -- people get cremated and become part of this reef. >> yeah. and there are environmental reasons to do it. but it's just one of those fascinating, you know, everybody will go through this one way or another with family members and loved ones and making decisions about your own -- i won't say afterlife but the -- your final resting place and it's fascinating to me to see that the way we live impacts the way that we die. >> no doubt about it. so we -- we've talked about this. we're going to show in a second,

an old "time" magazine cover, but jon meacham said you were probably in elementary school when this was done. you couldn't be blamed for the wimp factor headline for "newsweek." >> i was in high school. >> you were in high school. >> let's look. we'll explain in a second. take a look at the new nra ad that is going after in west virginia going after joe manchin. >> remember this tv ad? >> i'm joe manchin i approve this ad because i'll always [ inaudible ] west virginia. >> that was joe manchin's commitment. now he's working with president obama and new york mayor michael bloomberg. concerned? you should be. tell senator manchin to honor his commitment to the second amendment. >> i just saw this ad for the first time 15 minutes ago and when i saw this go by for a split second, it was so obvious

to me, just how dramatic the shading was on barack obama, that jon meacham, i [ inaudible ] anybody that has followed the media or politics for a long time, you instantly think about a "time" magazine cover. >> a 1994, the mug shot, that was dramatically darkened. >> dramatically darkened and, michael steele, the nra has made one mistake after another since newtown, stumbled over themselves, wayne lapierre leading the nra, made one mistake after another. show the slide again of president obama and michael bloomberg and this just seems, again, if i picked it up in half a second, this seems patently obvious what they're doing. >> you know, i don't know what the message you're trying to convey here in terms of saying he's working with these guys.

i mean joe manchin -- >> he's not one of us. >> it's just -- it's ludicrous. this guy is an a-plus rating with the nra. a solid citizen on the issue if you will. and to go after him in this fashion, to me, it's just like what's the point? it's not going to change the argument in a state like west virginia for joe manchin. everyone in the state know wheres the man is and they appreciate the leadership role he's taken. it's -- it's sort of a tone deafness here from the nra and, of course the racial overtones come into play as well. >> right. >> so, you know, it's just a little bit nuts. i don't get -- >> another mistake. the new cover of "time" magazine is the informers. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> it looks like a great issue. >> we sit down next with actress andrea riseborough whose role in the film "shadow dance" raises serious questions about family, loyalty and betrayal in the ira. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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we've been through this before. >> for christ's sake. >> listen to me. you've got a job to do. >> my job's -- >> no, it's not going to end up like that. you've got to pull yourself together. otherwise, this isn't going to work. you made your choice. >> i did? i did? that's the choice i made? >> no, that is not going to happen. >> that was a scene from the movie "shadow dancer." here with us now, co-star of the film. and she is joining us now. very good to have you on the set with us. >> thank you. >> a conspiracy thriller set around an active betrayal. sounds good. can you tell us what the betrayal was? >> it's really about a young mother who's an i.r.a. member. to preserve her people in a sense. she's very driven to have their

voice heard. she has a son and she's estranged from hip. she was trying to define a relationship with a child she had given birth to. >> and she's given a terrible choice it can you tell everybody what it is? >> she's apprehended my eed by . >> you're back here like nothing happened. we pay you. one day, if you want, we'll give you a life far away from this. >> her whole life has been sacrificial in a way. because she has such a keen sense of self but she has no idea what she wants or needs as a person.

>> will she find out in the film? >> i think she takes a very small step toward it. what i really loved about it was it's not a redemption tale. it's not about a one who suddenly realizes the error of her ways. it's more realistic in the sense that the pain is so deeply rooted in her family and her people due to something that happened to her brother when she was much younger. but she doesn't swing 180 and suddenly completely redefine her own perspective on life. but she carries on in a very human way. >> the politics of it -- we're sort of as americans removed from it a little bit. so it's more the drama and the experience, not necessarily the politics of the i.r.a. per se. >> think that's a really interesting point because it sort of a -- it forces you to redefine what you think about the difference between family and politics. and they are one and the same thing essentially. at a grassroots level is where

politics begins. >> right. >> and so the discontent in and amongst her people where she lives is the thing that fores her to feel her like she much commit such heinous acts of violence. >> it's hard for us as americans. as americans we think of ireland. it's beautiful. it's green. go over and visit. >> it is beautiful. >> it is beautiful, i know. we have a dear, dear family friend who was raised in belfast and she tells one story after another. i love the irish. they call it the troubles. they sound a little more like trouble. she talks about playing in her backyard and sometimes walking through and seeing dead bodies strewn around. having to be evacuated from school because a bomb is in there that can blow up an entire city block. this, it's hard for us to imagine. this was a way of life up till the accords in '98 i guess. >> such a high state of tension.

they self-medicate to get through it. you would send your child off to school and not know if they would come home. that kind of terror is almost unimaginable. but they were living inside of it for years. >> and in this case, your character is put in the position where she has to decide whether she's going to trust the enemy or not. whether she's going to trust in this case clive owen. >> i don't think she ever even contemplates trusting the enemy but i certainly think in a very human way she responds to the compassion that clive brought to the character. >> we're very excited about this. >> it looks incredible. thank you so much for being on the show. the movie is "shadow dancer" and it's now on demand in theaters. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." if you're seeing spots before your eyes, it's time

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good morning. it's 8 clock on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. sleepy. as you take a live look at new york city. back with us on set we have michael steel and howard dean. what are you doing, you looking? just forget it, there isn't any,

okay. we have a new todd akin in the house and we'll get to that in a second. that was incredible. >> there's only one todd akin. >> no, no. we have bill clinton. we're going to start with him. r a lot of different angles to the nsa story. but former president bill clint clinton has tough words for obama, appearing to split with the administration on how to handle the situation in syria. a closed press event on tuesday. in the event, clinton implied that president obama risks looking like a, quote, total fool, if he listens to opinion polls and acts too cautiously and that the american people like presidents to win. clinton sided with mccain, agreeing that more action needs to be taken, now that the russians, the iranian yas and hezbollah are in there head over heels 90 miles to nothing. should we try to do something to

slow their gains and rebalance the power so that these rebel groups have a decent chance to prevail? if you refuse to act and you cause a calamity, the one thing you cannot say when all the eggs have been broken is that oh my god two years ago there was a poll that said 80% of you were against it, right, you'd look like a total fool. >> it's fascinating because it talks, howard dean, about a split in the democratic party. this is a bill clinton who was a humanitarian hawk when he was president. he was hounded in his own mind by what happened in rwanda. he sat back -- because what happeneded in somalia? somalia was an ugly situation. so this president decided to go into bosnia, to go into kosovo and to be, along with others he surrounded himself with, a humanitarian hawk. susan rice, humanitarian hawk. but in this case, you've got bill clinton looking at barack obama who, quite frankly, is a bit more reserved on military

intervention. >> i think it's an interesting one. i think this is exactly where the president -- clinton is doing, his nightmare is what happened in rwanda. he became a huge hero for doing what the europeans should have done but didn't is save human numbers and bring peace to the balkans. here's the problem, i tend to be a little hawkish, believe it or not, despite the fact i was against the iran war. the problem clinton has and i think why president obama is right on this one is because the rebel group in syria has now been infiltrated by al qaeda. there was a case two days ago where a 14-year-old boy was pulled out of some sort of kiosk at a fair and had his head chopped off by the rebels. these are not the rebels we like. there are some very good people. six months ago, that would have been one thing. now we're supporting the same kind of people we supported in afghanistan, one of whom who turned out to be bin laden. this is a problem. >> it's a lot like what happened

when we, you know, go in and if you go in too late you don't have a good resistance group. and the same thing happeneded in libya. where we went in. we weren't really sure who we were supporting. but i think, mikka, bill clinton makes a good point, when he talks about what's happening on the other side, where you've got the russians and you've got iran and you've got hezbollah working around the clock to determine the outcome, while we sit on the sidelines with our allies. >> and every day you have the plea for some sort of involvement. having said that, obviously, if it were easy, it would be something that -- you even said yourself, a lot of people have come on the show and talked about how engaged we are, how stretched thin we are. i don't thing itk it's a simple decision. you're pulled in more and more and more. >> you know what is simple if you're a republican --

>> yeah. >> not talking about rape if you find -- i don't know. there's just these trends. these trend lines on this world wide web. there's certain things you can go back and see trends. when republicans start trying to diminish consequences of rape, usually doesn't turn out well. >> now you have republicans attack this particular republican in a way they didn't with todd akin. mikka has the story. >> mikka has the story at the todd akin deck. >> in the debate in congress, the bill's sponsor, congressman trent franks of arizona said this. >> the incidents of rape resulting in pregnancy are very low but when you make that exception, when you make that exception, there's usually a requirement to report the rape within 48 hours, and in this case, that's impossible, because this is in the sixth month of

gestation. >> i just find it astonishing to hear a phrase repeated that the "incidents of pregnancy from rape is low." that's not -- there's no scientific basis for that. the idea that the republican men on this committee think they can tell the women of america that they have to carry to term the product of a rape is outrageous. >> i mean, obviously follows up on not only todd akin but others talking about, medically, that if a one's raped, that the self-defense mechanisms magically come into play that stop them -- >> why are we having this discussion now? why do republicans keep -- >> as a pro-life republican, this is not something that's part of the national debate right now. americans are concerned about syria. they're concerned about the economy. there are things where the republicans can be leading and

moving women. and moving americans across the spectrum. to our argument. >> it's really nonstop though. i mean, we always -- it's republicans. i hear republicans out and about. just outraged by this. >> yeah. >> and, you know, it's just like, you know, during the campaign you wonder who these people are that go out and say these things and who their staff members and why they want to do such damage to our party. >> and, you know, and to get into such specifics and -- with the sense of, you know, i know what i'm talking about. when clearly that's not the case. just exacerbates the problem. i think the national party right now really has to find a better voice. maybe it should just find a voice. >> how about a voice? why don't they find a voice that can tell the idiots out there to just shut up. because you know what, before i pass away, i would like to have a republican in the white house again. >> i would too. >> i'm kind of crazy that way. >> that day is looking further

down the road the way we're going. >> we are undermined by so many of the shrillist voices in our own party that has nothing to do with conservativism. >> doesn't and that's the driver for me. it is not where the country is. these issues are very personal issues. and why we're still trying to legislate them at the federal level to me is just beyond -- >> so the republican did try to walk back his comments. telling politico his bill does nothing to restrict abortion before the first five months. reaction was predictably swift and harsh. and republican massachusetts senate candidate gabe gomez told abc news, quote, these kinds of comments only come from a moron. >> that's nice. >> speaking out. the issue of sexual assaults in the military continues to gain widespread attention but there are real divisions on capitol hill over how the pentagon should deal with it. does anyone find that

confounding? >> this is a surprise because senator levin is hardly a right wing conservative. >> what's wrong with people? >> i think, you know -- >> this is the united states of america -- >> let's explain in case people don't realize. senator levin yesterday threw out the part of claire mccaskill's bill that would stop -- >> that would stop -- >> that would do more to stop rape and carl levin threw it out. >> here's nbc's kelly o'donnell with the full report. >> reporter: as part of the senate's new generation -- >> many here don't believe the victims. they don't believe the victims. they don't believe the chain of command's the problem. >> reporter: new york democrat kristin gillibrand took on the old guard in what began last week as a dramatic showdown. >> we have violated that trust -- >> reporter: between the pentagon's top brass and the record number of women, seven, on the armed services committee over the failure to stop military sexual assaults. >> and the victims have said, i'm not reporting because it's within the chain of command.

>> reporter: but despite what had looked like the service chiefs being taken to the woodshed -- >> this isn't about sex. this is about assault itch domination and violence. >> reporter: the plan that would have taken the prosecution of these serious crimes out of the military chain of command failed. defense secretary chuck hagel. >> i don't personally believe that you can eliminate the command structure in the military from this process. >> reporter: the top democrat, chairman carl levin, cited with the pentagon. >> it is harder to hold someone accountable for failure to act if you reduce their power to act. >> reporter: levin got the committee to agree to some changes like making retaliation against a victim a crime. >> if you can't get the command system to work, than the whole thing crumbles. >> reporter: other democrats stuck with gillibrand, insisting that more sweeping change is needed. >> it will look to the victim as

though we are simply tinkering with the process. >> okay, i know that the moron who made the rape comment was just a small blip in everything, but that, coupled with this, is really, really worrying. seriously? what's wrong with people? >> franks is different, he's insignificant. carl levin runs a committee. carl levin is basically sided with all the old men in the military that are saying let us if somebody's raped let us protect our friends. >> actually, siding with the -- >> there's somewhat of a gender war going on in our country. you get people like franks and acompa akin saying these outrageous things. it's also a product of this attitude that, in fact, we can solve these problems in the old way. this is the most extraordinary thing about women, both parties now attaining a really significant number of seats in the senate. not enough but that debate was

one -- was just the beginning, opening shot. i think women are not going to put up with this anymore. carl levin doesn't have the same agenda that a richard murdoch or a todd akin has. >> how do you know? >> i know him. he's not a -- >> so let me ask you this, who does more damage in terms of women's lives, somebody who says something stupid or levin? >> when you are in charge like chuck hagel or carl levin of running an enormous organization in which there are literally tens of thousands of sexual assaults every year, you've got to hold people accountable. this bill does not hold people accountable. this is like going to the boss of a corporation and asking them to fix it. >> let me ask you this. i think this is very important. republicans make stupid comments. you talk about murdoch. but who actually has harmed more women, richard murdoch or levin with this decision? >> i think this is an enormous mistake. with this decision, the folks

are not going to be accountable for their actions inside the military. commanders will continue to make this mistake as they've just been backed up with the two -- with the exception of the president, the two most important people in the country -- >> the old boys are protecting the old guard. that's the reality of it. gillibrand saw through that. and they got pushed back on something that was fundamentally important. not just for women but for the country when it companiy s come type of violence. i agree with you, joe. i agree this is a step backwards. levin, you know, is doing the bidding for the wrong people. it's that simple. >> it's this internal attitude that happens. >> it's not like senator gillibra gillibrand's proposal was radical. i think most americans would say this is common sense. 26,000 self-reported sexual

assaults in the military last year. that's a huge, huge problem. when you keep the same structure in place is outrageous. >> explain, willie, what happens here, what this fight is about. i mean, somebody's accused of rape, right? >> a one gets assaulted. >> it's about who gets to review the case. currently it stays within the military chain of command. so they can create a protective bubble around it and decide if they want to protect the person against whom the crime is alleged. senator gillibrand wants to take it outside. have a more independent review of the case. that is not a radical proposition. >> and even -- these days, even if somebody is found guilty by their peers in the military of rape, a commanding officer can dismiss it. >> and has. >> this is not uncommon. >> this is not uncommon. >> and has, and has. it's unbelievable. >> "the new york times" has failure on military sexual assaults, it's distressing that

two decades of scandals could not persuade mr. levin to budge from his decision. miss gillibrand said she will try again when the full senate takes up the defense spending bill. she's done a diligent job of pressing for more sweeping change. and further debate about the sexual assault problem and its solutions can help strengthen the result when the senate negotiates a final bill with the house. so there's still hope. i guess what i'm completely perplexed about is we're even having this conversation. >> it's a generational change. in some ways, it's like the change you see when young people under the age of 35, no matter which party, mostly are in favor of same sex marriage. but this is half the population. and i think gillibrand and mccaskill are absolutely right. and i think senator levin is wrong. i don't think it's because he

has a view that women are inferior. i think because in this generation they never had to consider this before. >> for balance -- >> so why don't they listen to the women who are on the committee who are telling them that this is the experience of women within the rank and file of our military? this is not rocket science, you know, here, mr. levin. >> i agree. but to clutter things up a little bit, senator mccaskill voted with levin so we've got -- >> that's internal senate politics. that was a mistake too. >> i'm surprised. i got to tell you. still ahead, former president bill clinton offers up advice to top business leaders on fixing america's corporate problems. it's the cover story of this week's "business week." up next, how a full-time mom to four kids is now running her own multimillion-dollar enterprise. ceo brandy temple joins us along with steve case who saw plenty of reasons to invest in her

company. strong storms overnight have rolled to the east coast. they're moving fast and they're dangerous and they're going to hit i-95 and our big cities here in the next half hour, right at the end of the rush hour. let me show you the radar. very impressive. these storms came out of the mountains. if anything, they're as strong now as they were anytime overnight. the most dangerous of the storms is just north of baltimore. just rolled through frederick. lancaster, pennsylvania. if you're in lancaster, stay indoors for the next half hour. let these storms go through. they're heading to the due east. they'll bo go through the d.c. area too. between 8:30 and 9:00. there's additional storms back here by the way in indianapolis and cincinnati. and that will be part of our problem later today with additional to severe storms. once again, severe storms arriving on i-95. this is round one. we expect round two later on this afternoon to tonight and the possibility of some isolated tornadoes. i guess we'll be all happy when

we get done with today. it is hot, it is humid in d.c. you have about 20 minute s till that line of strong storms rolls through. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ 'cause you make me feel so right ♪ ♪ even if it's so wrong ♪ i wanna scream out loud ♪ boy, but i just bite my tongue ♪ ♪ this one's for the girls messin' with boys ♪ ♪ like he's the melody and she's background noise ♪ [ volume decreases ] thanks, mom! have fun! you too. ♪ ♪

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entrepreneurs can be found anywhere. with his new company, he's helping the rest rise. and their latest venture is a $20 million investment in the children's clothing company lala wally doodle. he joins us with the ceo of the company, brandy sttemple. what did you like about her business? >> i was speaking at an event and heard about the story of how she launched this company five years ago when her husband lost his job and used face book as a way to put designs up. people would order then and then they'd manufacture them. so a combination of social shopping and just in time manufacturing and made in the usa manufacturing story. and it is part of this rise of the rest. we think entrepreneurship has always been spread around the nation. places like north carolina have great entrepreneurs. >> did i just see 90%, you sell most of your clothes through facebook? >> yes, most of our garments are sold through the facebook

channel. >> oh, my gosh. >> that's amazing. >> back up though, because i think -- this is fascinating. your husband lost his job? >> it came just as the perfect timing. we were so blessed. i'd already started it as a hobby on the side. we found out because of the construction industry that he was facing a layoff. and at the -- right around the same time, i'd put a couple things on face boong and it literally just exploded overnight. we have this business that's growing quickly, how do you want to handle it? he at that moment said -- he was just so supportive and said, let's switch roles. i'll take care of the kids. and overnight we decided it was a business. >> these clothes are cool.

how did you market them on facebook to stand out? what made it such a success? look how adorable. >> thank you. it wasn't something that i actually planned to do. it was a test. i had some things i just wanted to move. and took a picture of them. just literally a picture with my camera, put it up and said, i have a few items, the sizes, post your e-mail address if you want then and i'll send you a pay pal invoice. within seconds we were sold out. and so that was the first aha moment of, wow what a platform this is going to be. we started selling. within two weeks, we were off of ebay and we were on to facebook exclusively. and literally we were selling things faster than i could make them. the ladies at church could make them it the people in the community we had helping us. and we would literally have my family over at night, dinners. we'd clear the table, we'd eat, and then everybody would get back to work shipping. >> oh, my gosh, i love this story. what is this telling you about first all our economy.

i want to hear about exactly how you invested in her. what you expected to get out of it. >> we're trying to take what was now a small company, it has grown rapidly. one of the leaders in social shopping. one of the largest commerce site on facebook. some of these older brands like oshkosh has been around for a while it the traditional model is you design stuff and a year later it's in the store. the model brandy pioneered was putting a design up. put it on facebook. midday. you get hundreds of orders. then they start manufacturing it based on those orders. so it's based, custom manufacturing, just in time manufacturing. also allows you to customize. you want a monogram or something else. so instead of somebody in new york or some place else figuring out a design and then having it manufactured in i don't know bangladesh or something basically the people in north carolina are figuring at out the design and manufacturing it. >> such a positive story. give me a sense when this

started. some 30,000 kids garments a month are shipped out. this just exploded. you would think maybe it takes 10, 20 years to build a business like this. >> this is what the internet is all about. the brand was really built virally. it's really taken off. the investment we're making helps turbbo charge it. >> when did this start? >> 2010 is really when we had that moment that things started going absolutely crazy. and taking it from the angle that i didn't want a large investment, i didn't want to hold inventory. >> we're look at your garage right now. we only had a certain amount of fabric on hand.

so creating this model, this manufacturing process that we could take what they were telling us they wanted and how they wanted to see it, manufacture it quickly after they purchased it and get it straight to them. >> do you shape demand or does demand shape what you produce? the question for you, when you're looking at this company, how do you see what she's doing from a static position, you know, corporate america looking now at this and going, hmm. or do they go that's just a fad? how does the market shape what you're doing? how do you think what she's doing is going to shape the market? >> our customers are the designer so they absolutely shape what they're doing. we use our sales platform as our predictor. so we're able to really do real-time manufacturing. and using it off of what they're telling us they want to see. in the very beginning, i had

open dialogue with our customers which is truly what caused this to be a community. and they would say, you know, i love the green one but i want it with a red ruffle. the next day likely they would see it with a red ruffle. we would take what they wanted and really listen and give it to them. >> this is really part of the future. the last 25 years has sort of been the first internet revolution. just getting everybody online. the next 25 years is how do you reinvent fashion or health care, education, other parts of our economy? and leveraging these platforms is critical. now they launched on instagram and pinterest. >> is it only for kids? >> we do a lot for moms too. >> congratulations, what an incredible story. we're going to continue the conversation online. you can tweet your conversation, to steve and brandy right now using the hash tag mojo. ♪

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all right. 32 past the hour. joining us now, it is editor of bloomberg's "business week." featuring bill clinton as the consultant in chief. answering questions from five of the country's top business and civil leaders. we're going to have bill clinton on tomorrow. this is perfect timing. first of all, the questions came from such a great range. who was there? >> really, we spoke to the folks at cgi about this. they said, hey, how about an interview. really, you know, it's not that i don't want to interview the president but we have these people with really interesting problems. so we went to three ceos.

we went to the mayor of baltimore, my hometown, and then we went to jorge ramirez who runs the chicago federation of labor. we said, okay, here's a consultant, he's going to do free work for you, what do you want to know? they came back with specific questions that i think kind of took the president by surprise. >> obviously you can check out the magazine for the full, for all the questions. it seems like you were right to bring together people with specific problems from different angles from very high levels. what do you think one of the most telling answers was? >> there's a theme that runs through them. which is, look, this is the former president of the united states telling everybody don't expect washington to solve your problem. what you need to do is first diagnose what washington can do. and then figure out how much space there is between that and the solution to your problem. once you know that, start

coalition building. starting with working with municipalities. start working with other companies. really what you're seeing is the president saying there isn't going to be a silver bullet solution to these complicated problems. we've been talking about this. the estimates are $3.5 trillion in infrastructure deficiency in the united states. the president said the infrastructure has been out there, we've talked about it. it's not going to come and save the day. you as mayors have to think about how are you going to get together, what are you going to do, and start to bridge that gap. >> and raise the money themselves? >> either raise the money themselves or create efficiencies by working on projects together. sharing your knowledge. we talked about what rahm emanuel has done in chicago. they're spending $1 billion to replace water mains. there is nothing less sexy or more unglam -- >> that is infrastructure. >> when you scale it out and you see what they're able to do, it's going to save the city a ton of money. >> the point that the president

made there to the mayor's question is significant. because when bob oralic and i were in office, lieutenant governor, the fact of the matter that working on the issues -- there's real value of communities starting from within before jumping to the federal level for the solutions. i think the president makes a good point. how does that then translate for the broader globalization questions that then have impacts on those same municipalities and cities? >> i think that's a very good point. ultimately what he's trying to counsel people to do is attack the problem you can own. we talked about what germany's been able to do with infrastructure and unemployment in particular. we sort of have global exam el its. john channel betters said, what

are we going to learn from other countries? there are tons of examplings. there's a lot of unanswered stuff. what he's counseling them is do the things you can do. even from jorge ramirez who is asking what are we going to do about the skills gap. there are all these jobs. i've got people looking for jobs. the afl-cio has figured out how, it has to spend some money to do some diagnose. once you know what new standards are out there for industry, then you begin to do it. the afl-cio is partnering with private industry to push that further and further. the message throughout is if you're waiting for the federal government to come and save the day, you're going to be waiting a long time. >> might be waiting forever. >> one of the answers is you need pretty formidable personal political skills. >> what an interesting observation. if you think there's anyone out there who might be able to -- >> how much of the answers were

projection, you know, if bill clinton were running cisco, yeah, he could get the -- >> i think what's interesting about the president is maybe ten years ago that's what we would have seen. is let me tell you how i'd do it. what's interesting about the president of cgi is he sees himself mostly as a coalition builder. that's still a model predicated on one guy getting everybody in the room and sort of speaking truth. that's different than one guy taking and running the ball by himself. he's saying, yeah, i can get them together, we can do this. it's tough to replicate that once you get outside of his magnanimous presence but it's a start. >> we'll be looking for the new issue of "bloomberg businessweek." and bill clinton and mayor rahm emanuel are both on tomorrow. up next, new threat to the cigarette industry. why staying competitive involves

adding a single letter to the product's name. we'll explain that next. also ahead, we are tracking a huge sell-off overnight in the global markets. keep it right here on "morning joe." i want to make things more secure. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art.

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the ones getting involved and staying engaged.

they're not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is "how did i end up here?" i started schwab for those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives. a rise in sex crimes in the u.s. military has led to calls for major changes in the military justice system. we've been talking about this especially because of what happened yesterday. despite bipartisan support, the plan to take the prosecution out of the military chain of command failed. the top democrat, chairman carl levin, sided with the pentagon. getting the committee to agree to some changes like making retaliation against a victim a crime. but other senators like democrat

kristin gillibrand insist more sweeping change is needed. senator mccaskill is supporting levin's plan. she explained her position last night on "hard ball." >> my decision today was guided by years of experience as a courtroom prosecutor handling hundreds of these cases. i believe what we have done today has strengthened the environment for successful prosecutions and it will support the victims. we have taken out of the chain of command the review. so if a commander doesn't agree with the lawyer, then it goes straight up to the civilian secretary of that branch of the military, no uniform. and what we passed today, unlike the previous proposal, is a crime to retaliate. and i firmly believe that victims will have less retaliation when the commander has signed off on the case going forward rather than just lawyers outside the unit that no one knows. >> and just to follow up because we were talking about this earlier and we'll continue to cover this and look at all the different angles.

but senator mccaskill reached out to me personally this morning. in an e-mail she talked about the aggressive reforms she is supporting here. she believes that the provisions that were passed would do a better job of protecting victims from retaliation than the other version being considered. and as she mentioned on hard ball, she says she spent many hours with victims and military prosecutors and it's much more complex than just sort of separating it out as commanders versus the victims. we'll be talking more about this and having everybody involved hopefully on our show in the coming day. let's go to cnbc. global sell-off, what's going on. >> japan got hammered overnight. 6. the 6.5% decline. we're really trying to figure out what's going on over there. they government and their central bankers are doing everything they can. they've been aggressive about trying to improve the economy.

it seems at least at this the moment after initially working seems to be failing. the u.s. looked worse a couple of hours ago. slightly better now. but still negative. i think it's going to be a very choppy session. we did get some good employment data this morning. jobless claims fell and were lower than expected so that's good news. the other story we're covering. it turns out there's economic data that compaes out and we thought everybody got it at the same time. now it turns out places like the university of michigan for example are selling data early and in the world of computers when you can trade not by seconds but nano seconds, some traders are getting information two seconds early. that's a huge, huge window to be able to scrape a lot of money before everybody else. >> this is basically all nongovernment reports. these high frequency people get it a couple seconds early.

they have computers that can zip in millions and boom that's ahead of the trade. >> he's a funny one, michelle, yeah, you should have heard what he said about his daughter yesterday. >> i'm a little neurotic about my daughter. >> he's a funny one. all right. thank you. a couple other stories. >> this one from the portland press herald. the electronic cigarette industry is absolutely booming. valued at $1 billion and projected to overtake the $80 billion cigarette business within a decade. marlboro and rj reynolds are among numerous brands that have launched versions -- >> people still smoke? >> a lot of people still -- you go down to mr. mechum's part of the world, lots of people still smoke. i see it a ton on the streets of new york now. >> and the global smoking

marketplace. >> this is a way of reigniting the american market. it's called vaping. >> right, they get their nicotine but they don't destroy their lungs. it's a way to get the nicotine without the actual carcinogens. >> it doesn't sound possible but okay. >> there's tons of smokering,sm. i think it will be more cost effective for smokers to use. >> u.s. oil production grew by over 1 billion barrels per day last year. that is not my take, i'm just telling you both sides of the story it it's the largest increase of any country in the world and the largest increase in u.s. history. the controversial method of fracking largely responsible for this boom. crew production jumped 14% last year. i did a ton of work out there and the money that's being

thrown around there and the potential for more, they say there's billions upon billions of barrels of oil. >> good news, unless you think we're ruining the world, thanks. >> besides that, mrs. lincoln, how was the play? >> thank you. up next, new jersey governor christie gives brian williams seriously a run for his money. he is the slow jam king, okay. we'll play you their back and forth on fallon coming up. i want peacocks. peacocks? walking the grounds. in tuscany. [ man ] her parents didn't expect her dreams to be so ambitious. italy? oh, that's not good. [ man ] by exploring their options, they learned that instead of going to italy, they could use a home equity loan to renovate their yard and have a beautiful wedding right here while possibly increasing the value of their home. you and roger could get married in our backyard. it's robert, dad.

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he's done it again. chris christie continues to impress on the late night scene. check him out last night with jimmy fallon. >> the decisions that need to be made in washington are too great to be determined by an appointee for 18 months. what we don't need is another unelected politician just sitting around in congress. whether it's in the senate or the house of representatives. >> mm, mm, mm. take it from my man the love gov. when he sits around the house of representatives, he really sits around the house of representatives.

[ rim shot ] >> but these costs can't be measured against the value of having an elected member of the united states senate. that's why i'm throwing my full weight behind this decision. >> oh, oh, oh, oh, come on, come on now, christie "cream doughnut" how you gonna absenting me up like that? it's too easy. it's not even funny. >> isn't that what your audience says every night? yeah, it hurts, so step off, brother. >> isn't that what your bathroom scale says every night? >> wow. i'm telling you. he's got talent. nice. all right. see, i don't agree with this next story. >> well, i'm not even going to look at it.

>> i saw this one way too early and i thought it was -- what's the word, pandering -- >> are you done with your cereal because it might company back up. >> you know what, it's just -- >> a family in oregon are the new proud parents of a two-headed kitten. >> seriously, why? >> it was born this week. it has four eyes, two noses and two mouths and is apparently totally healthy. >> why would you do this story? >> it was rejected by its mother. as a result -- >> but why? >> i need a job. the kitten's name, deucy of course. >> are you sure this isn't balloon boy? >> i don't know. >> confused looking at that thing. >> is it off yet? >> i know we need a fact check.org on this. >> why do you do this? this is like, you know, not, not anything. you know what i mean? two-helpeded kitten in where? >> oregon. >> that's a state, mikka.

i mean -- why are you attacking the pacific northwest? >> i'm not saying oregon, i'm just saying why would you do that? >> it's a curiosity. >> what? >> how many two-headed kittens do you see here in new york? >> not enough. >> not enough. so there you go. >> don't tell bloomberg, he'll ban them. >> i ask the question what did we learn today. we'll be right back. [ ice freezing ] [ wind howling ] [ engine revving ] ♪ [ electricity crackling ] [ engine revving ]

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or 2% cash back on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? [ crows ] now where's the snooze button? time now to talk about what we learned today. brian jack man. >> the best and the brightest this country has to offer. we go from serious topics to the nsa to the inanities of life. >> the parachute flying into the window, that was at least -- that was amazing. >> that's the bar? >> yeah. >> parachute into the window?he. >> the whole new way to do business. >> that was an incredible story.

designs. i'm buying a dress, that's all i know, on facebook. >> i learned that bill clinton is holding forth being the consultant in chief, offering big solutions and is finding clinton-esque ways of doing it. which is bringing people together. >> he'll be on the show tomorrow. an incredible interview with the head of the nsa and the cia, general michael hayden. really, really great insight i think today on the nsa situation. okay. if it's way too early, it's time for "morning joe." but now it's time for "the daily rundown" with chuck todd. have a great day, everyone. spilling secrets. the man in charge at the nsa delivers a bombshell revelation about what the u.s. spy program has prevented, so he claims. while the worldwide man hunt continues for the man who set off this firestorm. hillary clinton makes her