making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger. thanks for disrupting your afternoon. i'm karen finney. let's get right to it. >> a major move by the obama administration. the u.s. set to intervene in the crisis igs in syria. >> rebels say there is still time but not much. >> this means we are wading into the syrian civil war. >> unless something is done soon, there might not be any rebels left to support. >> when hezbollah have intervened, when iran has intervene, you argue we should do absolutely nothing? >> i can't give you a specific time line or an itemized list. >> i feel like i'm watching deja

vu all over again. >> i think it is obvious they will be providing weapons. they need a no-fly zone. >> it is not some type of silver bullet. >> the same kind of drum beat to go into war in iraq is going on right now. >> are we going into one country after another in the world deciding who should win? >> we've got lots to talk about this afternoon in a week where conservatives have more to say about abortion and rape. we learn new details and americans still want to continue the discussion on the economy but the conversation was disrupted by a dramatic turn of events in syria. the obama administration announced on thursday that they'll begin to arm the syrian rebelsful the about face came after confirmation that the embattled president bashar al assad has used chemical weapons against his own people. we learned more about the

carnage as the u.n. announced more than 90,000 men, women and children have died in the 2-year-old conflict. a staggering loss of life but one that so far has not swayed the american people that this is a war worth fighting. a recent nbc "wall street journal" poll showed the american public is still extremely hesitant to intervene in the conflict. with nearly one in four americans saying, we should satisfy no action at all. asked to pick a response to stop the killing of civilians in syria, just 15% say they favor u.s. military action and only 11% want to provide arms to the opposition. by comparison, the pluralality of responses preferred to provide only humanitarian assistance and 24% believe the u.s. shouldn't take any action. perhaps more significantly though, those attitudes cut across party lines and almost all demographic groups. now this is a country that rarely agrees on anything across

party lines. but americans are in agreement on this and it might be because neither the administration nor john mccain have been able to articulate what that end game is going to look like. here to discuss with us, we have nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker, form he ambassador to morocco, mark ginsburg, and the writer for the new york times on this very topic last week. welcome to you all. i'm so glad to have you with us this afternoon. kristen, i'm going to start with you. so the president is scheduled to head to the g-8 summit which will begin next week. we know that he spoke by phone with a handful of european leaders just last night. the one name that was pretty dramatically left off that list was russian president vladimir putin. now, what does that tell us about the president's frame of mind going into the summit next week? >> reporter: well, i think it tells us that he is first and foremost, putting a lot of emphasis on this discussion that he is going to have with

vladimir putin. but there is not a lot of optimism that he is going to be able to pressure vladimir putin to in turn pressure assad to step down. i've been told by white house officials, we shouldn't expect president obama to reach out to putin ahead of that meeting. as you mentioned, he did reach out to his other g-8 allies, including britain, france, germany, italy. had a conversation with them. discussed the united states' decision to help arm the opposition forces inside syria and of course, this conversation that will take place on monday, karen, comes against an incredibly tense back drop. russia has said that it does not necessarily believe the u.s. assessment that the assad regime used chemical weapons and it also comes as we are learning, the department of defense decided to leave f-16 fighter jets and patriot missiles in jordan after some military exercises there. that has rankled russia as well.

they're concerned the united states is planning to set up a no-fly zone. >> what strikes me, we make this announce. and then you have the russian foreign minister saying that's a no-go. a no-fly zone is essentially illegal by international law. so it feels like this back and forth. you have the united states trying to create some leverage heading into the g-8 and kind of as i would have expected, the russians pushing back and kind of saying, we're not going to be pushed into a corner. when i read the tea leaves, that's what it feels like is going on. >> first, congratulations on the show. and secondly, none of us want to see american foreign policy fail in the middle east. particularly a good democrat like myself would like to see us succeed. remember, the context of this is that the russians have a military and petroleum and arms sales stake in syria and they have been relentless in pursuing that policy, number one. and number two, just a couple weeks ago, secretary of state kerry went to meet with the

foreign minister of russia, mr. lavrov. they were going to announce this peace conference in geneva on syria. it was a bombshell. it blew up in secretary kerry's face. at this point in time the negotiation track that the united states wished to pursue has been stopped dead cold by the russians. primarily because the russianed have convinced the united states will escalate in syria. >> what will it take? what do they want out of this deal? what will it take to get them, i don't think they're going to turn around in 24, 48 hours of the g-8 and say okay, we're with you. what is it they want? >> we're in the end game. the nine inning. the syrian civil war will continue and it will be just as nasty as it has been over the last three years. irrespective of what the administration does or doesn't do. and the russians are not going to permit the united states to change the equation that would somehow compel their friend, mr. assad, to fall. that's the game being played.

this is a proxy war going on and the united states is arriving too late to the game to make a difference. >> to that point, this idea that there is a proxy war. reading your wonderful piece in the new york times, we know over 90,000 syrians have been killed. there are innocent syrian people stuck in the middle of what is now become a war where on the one side, you've got hezbollah and iran and russia. on the other you've got the united states and some of our allies, sort of unclear what they're willing to commit. what about the people stuck in the middle who just want the war to end? >> we're not talking to them and we're not really hearing from them, are we? you know, the last two years i've spent a lot of time inside syria. most people are invested in a solution. that's something that none of us have been able to come up with in the past three years. people are willing, if it requires negotiating with the regime to get to a place where we can stop the killing and have

some stability, that is what many people i have spoken to say they're most invested in. >> you mentioned, as a really important point. from ambassador, tell me if you agree with this. i feel like we're looking at this as a sectarian war but that's not how it started. it started at the basics of people wanting opportunity and jobs and sort of an improved economy and more freedoms. yet now it has been turned into more of a sectarian conflict. >> what i say in the article, it is important to sort of distinguish what started the conflict from what sustains. and sectarianism is helping to seen it. as long as we continue to see the conflict only through this lens, we will come up with only ineffective solutions. how this started in syria was essentially, people were fed one the economic corruption. that corruption extends to the inner circle of the assad family. another thing that people here love to deny, the relevance of or the existence of climate change. but a serious series of droughts since 2005 has dislocated

massive amounts of of the population into the rural areas and the peripheral areas of the cities. these are things that cause this conflict. if we refuse to see it that way and see it as only sectarian, we'll only talk to the people who arbitrate in the middle east. >> at this point, that point is completely lost. again, as you say. now it is a proxy war. now it feels more like the united states and russia in particular at logger heads and it is unclear, a, what the end game really is. and b, how do we avoid, you have the syrian rebels saying the little bit of arms we said we'll give them won't be a game changer. how do we avoid this not becoming an all-out war? >> she is perfectly right in her assessment. it is the crime of the century with so many people being murdered and massacred at this point in time. the fact is that the sunni/shiite level is there. there's a level of that. then you have iran, the number one shiite ally of syria.

you have russia which has an interest in a geopolitical checkmating of the united states in the middle east. you have hezbollah which is now entered in big time to support assad and the israelis have an occasion on that as well. then you have the saudis and the qataris and the arab league siding, or playing double games in the syrian conflict as well. and just to make things worse, you have a whole new al qaeda front that has been launched in syria. >> as if there wasn't enough. >> as if there was not enough. >> in the very brief time we have, if we're sitting here in america, why is this in our national interests? why should americans follow this and care other than us engaging troops potentially? why does this matter to us? >> first the humanitarian catastrophe should be the number one concern to us as moral oriented americans. we should have provided a lot more humanitarian assistance. number two, look.

if it was just to contain civil war, that would have been bad enough. it is spilling all over the middle east. it is spilling into lebanon. the golan heights. you have jordan. the iraqis are involved and revolutionary guards are all over the place and the russians and the chinese are in there as well. all the more reason why the united states has no gps at this point going into syria and therefore, if you don't have a gps, don't go in. >> why should americans care about what's going on in syria? >> well, first and foremost because of the humanitarian reasons. there's no reason for these people to be dying. no reason for these people to be dying. we don't want to cement this idea that because the middle east happens to be a multicultural and multiethnic and multisectarian place and we don't want to cement this idea that we have to centrifuge out these people, bucks they've been pulled out and isolated into their smallest element.

and that is at stake. we've already seen the spillover into lebanon. and i think as a multicultural society ourselves, we should be invested in preserving the idea that coexistence is not an impossibility. >> i completely agree with you there. we're having our own struggles with coexistence here in the united states but you're right. thank you very much for your time this afternoon. i really appreciate it. we want to hear what you disruptors have to say? what action do you think president obama should take in syria? find us on face book and tweet us at msnbcdisrupt. we'll share some of your comments on the show tomorrow. keep it right here male announc] in your lifetime, you will lose 3 sets of keys 4 cell phones 7 socks and 6 weeks of sleep but one thing you don't want to lose is any more teeth. if you wear a partial, you are almost twice as likely to lose your supporting teeth. new poligrip and polident for partials 'seal and protect' helps minimize stress, which may damage supporting teeth, by stabilizing your partial.

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. the story of form he nsa

contractor edward snowden has raised numerous questions about the post 9/11 expansion of america's intelligence industrial complex. after 9/11, according to the "washington post," through federal budget process the george w. bush administration and congress made it much easier for the cia and other agencies involved in counter terrorism to hire more contractors than civil servants. that's continued under the current administration. last fiscal year of the more than 1.4 million people who held top secret clearances, about half a million were private contractors like snowden. in fact, 70% of the nation's nearly 54 $billion intelligence program is spent on these contractors. in addition to the increasing cost to taxpayers, there are obvious concerns about having americans' sensitive information held in the hands of private companies that are paid by our government but not overseen by our government.

yesterday, senator dianne discussed it. >> it will limit or prevent contractors from handling highly classified technical data. and we will do some other things. >> let's see sf f something actually gets done. let's bring in our guests. haze brown is a national security reporter for think progress.org. thank you for your time this afternoon. >> i want to start with you. you worked as a contractor for the department of homeland security for a time. help us understand how it is that we got from the nsa using about 140 private vendors in 2001 which grew to about 6,000 by 2006. >> so hike your colleague rachel maddow said in her book "drift," it started under the reagan administration in terms of

finding a way to do the things they wanted to do in the foreign sphere without the oversight of congress. they turned to contractors. in the post 9/11 world as you mentioned, to get those sorts of things done without expanding the federal government which is a nath ma to most conservatives, they turned to contractors. >> here is my question on that. it sounds like a little of too big to fail scenario that we heard in the aftermath of the bank crash where you find out that the ceos did not know what was going on. to some degree i have the same question here. do we think that the ceos really understand the nature of the technology being created. how it works. would they be able to function, you know, without to that point, i'll play you some sound. he said we need people with snowden's skills and we'll talk about it on the other side.

>> i would point out in the i.t. arena, in the cyber arena, some of these folks have tremendous skills to operate networks. that was his job for the most part from the 2009/'10 was an i.t. system administrator within those networks. >> no offense but i know a lot of folks who have to ask their kids to explain their iphones to them. do we really think the heads of the agencies or the ceos of these companies understand what is being built and how it works? >> i'm not entirely sure how much oversight is done by a lot of the ceos and by congress to figure out what's being built in these organizations like the national security agency. the intelligence committee, the chairs of the house and senate have said the programs work. that we can't do without them. and yet we have these contractors who are able to access far more than they really should, it seems, in the case of

snowden. he shouldn't have been able to get all those documents that he managed to take women w thith h. >> i'm skeptical whether or not they could get in there and use any of this software if they had to. you wrote something really important this week. kind of following up on one of the points he just made. we need to be concerned, not just about how this information and the access of this information is being used by the government but that these companies are actually using data that they collect for their own business purposes, even targeting their perceived enemies. i'm going to read something you wrote. two years ago, a batch of stolen e-mails reveal a plot by a set of three defense contractors, palantir technologies, berico technologies and hbgary federal. tell us what was going on here. >> well, sure. if we take words of former boos

allen employee ed snowden as serious that he had the ability to access even the private messages of a federal judge, we need to be re-evaluating the reliance of our intelligence gathering agencies on private contractors. and in this story that i helped break two years ago, showing that three private contractors, the ones you just mentioned had developed a plan to use government funded technology to spy on labor unions, on journalists, and even the center for american progress. this raises real alarms. >> but to that point, so democrats actually at the time you reported called for an investigation. there was actual evidence of what was going on that you talk about. but the republican chairman of the house oversight and government reform committee none other than our friend darrell issa has refused to have an investigation. instead he is focusing on the irs. is there any movement on the letter that those house members september to congressman issa?

>> no. there hasn't been much movement. congressman hank johnson took the lead on this. he made some pointed questions to the nsa chief. let me reiterate. this was a plan by three defense contractors on behalf of the u.s. chamber of commerce and their attorneys to actually hack into the computers of the claim chamber's critics. everyone from the activist group moveon.org. another separate proposal to the same contractors on behalf of bank of america wanted to look into wikileaks and its supporters. the plans, of course, didn't go through. the contents were leaked but it demonstrates the danger of having really powerful cyber weapons in the hands of private contractors. >> as you point out, we've been talking a bit about what the government is doing with that information. you raise very important concerns about what these contractors can then turn around and do with that information. i want to take a look at snowden's former employer, boos

allen hamilton. last year they earned $1.3 billion from intelligence work. and conveniently, its current vice president mike mcconnell was under george w. bush and the director of national intelligence under george w. bush. and we'll have a little fun with this. they 200 that it is transforming cyber security in the middle east. and they are turning big data into big insights. the most ironic, delivering i.t. efficiency. i'm thinking they might want to rethink their branding after snowden's leak. >> i say you're right. that they have a lot of work on their hands in the days ahead. i will say that what you saw in those is that booz allen and contractors have worked throughout the federal government. the defense sphere and into pretty much every agency.

so senator feinstein's proposal to limit the amount of access that they have kind of treats a symptom without treating the real problem. how do we figure out how to make sure these contractors have sufficient oversight in helping keeping the gears of government moving which is something that i feel like actually would stop at this point if they were abruptly shifted out. >> that's a great point. lee fong from the nation. thank you very much for joining us on your saturday afternoon. >> thanks for having us. next, some of the week's moments that you may want to relive and some you may regret for weeks to capitol. this is "disrupt." i wish we could lie here forever. i wish this test drive was over, so we could head back to the dealership. [ male announcer ] it's practically yours. test drive! [ male announcer ] but we still need your signature. volkswagen sign then drive is back. and it's never been easier to get a jetta. that's the power of german engineering. get $0 down,

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is the only card that never has late fees, a penalty rate, or an annual fee, ever. go to citi.com/simplicity to apply. [ both laughing ] but our plants were starving. [ man ] we love to eat. we just didn't know that our plants did, too. then we started using miracle-gro liquafeed every two weeks. now our plants get the food they need while we water. dinner's ready. come and get it. no one goes hungry in this house. so they're bigger, healthier, and more beautiful. guaranteed. with miracle-gro anyone can have a green thumb. and a second helping. [ both laughing ] when you feed your plants... everyone grows with miracle-gro. . we thought we would disrupt a little bit with some sound bites from the week that just was. >> let's all acknowledge for a moment that this is weird. >> i realize it is only june but it is a good june. >> edward snowden, that sounds

like a game of thrones. >> the public needs to decide whether these programs and policies are right and wrong. >> girls are one thing but phone call are too dangerous to go unchecked. some dangerous could be calling about going on a shooting spree. >> there wouldn't be a jew alive on the planet today if hitler had this technology. >> for someone to tell the american people the truth is a heroic effort. >> he is not a whistle blower. >> he is a traitor. >> he doesn't want to live in a society where the society monitors its people. >> any analyst at any time can target anyone. any selector anywhere. even the president if i had a personal e-mail. >> delusions of grandeur. >> i'll bet the amish are feeling pretty smug right now. >> the holidays are coming early this year. >> we need to do immigration reform. >> don't vote for any immigration bill until the border is secure. >> do you think john boehner is in a position of strength to get

immigration reform through the house? >> yes, i do. but i think it will be ugly. >> i see the way the termites are eating through. >> after the kermit gosnell case -- >> the republicans sticking their nose in my vagina -- >> i think the legislation is appropriate. >> resulting in pregnancy are very low. >> why are republicans still talking about rape? >> because they're ignorant. >> tell the idiots to shut up. >> this is the most ridiculous thing. >> religion of freedom does not medium freedom from religion. >> we want to know what your story from the week was. i want you to let us know on facebook and twitter. stay right there. we've got plenty more ahead. so i have this front porch. but it's really empty. so, my dad is making me these. i said i'd help. ah, so you're going to need some tools of your own. this battery will power over 50 tools.

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the incidence of rape resulting in pregnancy are very low. >> oh, that was, welcome back to "disrupt." that was arizona congressman trent franks talking about legislation he responseored which would ban abortions after 20 weeks, setting up a legal challenge to roe versus wade. in a statement that caught such fire this week, he even began fundraising off the back lash. not surprisingly his facts are wrong. an estimated 25,000 pregnancies actually occur from rape every year and it is important to remember that that doesn't include the high percentage of rapes that go unreported. now republicans have since backed off slightly. they replace franks with a female congresswoman marsha black burn and they allowed language allowing for some rape and incest exceptions. there is a new study that examines the physical, psychological and socioeconomic outcomes for women who missed the deadline and are actually denied an abortion or turned away. and the findings paint a very

different picture than what conservatives would lead you to believe. some on the right talk about mental health issues for women who have abortions. but the study actually found that it is women's physical and economic health that saw much more dramatic negative outcomes. let's bring in, we've got two experts in this field. tracy wheats, a professor who worked on this study at the university of california san francisco. and professor dorothy roberts of the university of pennsylvania law school. before we start, i should just mention that i actually serve on the board of pro-choice america. tracy, i want to start with you. i found your study so fascinating. what was most striking to you in those findings? >> i think what was most striking to us was how difficult parenting is in this country. we know that 60% of women who have abortions already have one child and they're often struggling with trying to feed and house and clothe that child. when they're forced to have a child that they weren't expecting, they're three time

more likely to be in poverty two years later. i think what was most striking to us was how hard the economic hit is of parenting in this country. >> i know that you said in your report that one of the things you had expected was to see better health outcomes, for example, because of the programs that should be available to women. and yet that was not the case. >> it's not. what limited the public assistance we have for low-income families is wholly inadequate to provide actual sustenance to sustain a family. and in states like california which is still one of 16 states that limits the ability to receive additional public assistance if you have a child while you're already on public assistance. >> professor, republicans invoke kermit gosnell's name as a reason to push abortion laws. let's watch what was said about it. >> listen, jobs continues to be our number one concern.

and while we continue to be focused on this, there are other important issues that we have to deal with. and after the kermit gosnell case and the public that it received, i think the legislation is appropriate and i hope those who have voted against such proposals in the past will change their minds. >> this is a time for the pro-life movement like we have not had in decades. we must seize the moment. we must move legislatively to address this horrific situation with gosnell who is not an outlier. >> here's what strikes me. particularly in the context of some of the results that tracy was just talking about. here you have women who essentially, because of their socioeconomic status are left at the mercy of someone like a gosnell. not just when it comes to abortion care but when it comes to basic health care. these well, a lot of them don't even have access to that if they choose to have a child, to have

a healthy child. not to mention on top of that, as tracy was talking about, as we've seen at the federal level, there are proposals to cut the very programs that would help these women. this is really, i see this as an economic justice issue as well. >> absolutely. what is so tragic and despicable about the anti-abortion forces taking advantage of the tragedy of the gosnell case is that their plans to add greater restrictions on access to abortion do absolutely nothing to help the situation of women who are struggling to take care of children and are faced with an unwanted pregnancy. for various reasons. in part, as tracy said, because of the difficulty of raising children in this country. so instead of making their lives more difficult by placing more and more barriers to access to high quality, excellent,

accessible reproductive health services, this assault on abortion is just going to make their lives more difficult. what we need is, public funding for high quality health care services, including reproductive health services. whether we're talking about women who want to have a baby or who want to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. along with the kind of supports that women and children need in this country. and that is what would solve the problem. not placing barriers in front of women and not trusting them to make the right decision for themselves about their own welfare and their family's welfare. >> to that point, i think a lot of the people who write this legislation and some of the ridiculous look that we hear don't actually understand that a lot of these women don't have the same opportunities to even make good decisions. right? they know what might be right for them. but if you don't have access to

good health care or if you don't have access to a doctor to ask your questions, you're not in the same position as somebody who does. >> right. we know that most women who seek abortions do so because they can't afford another child. what our study shows is that in fact they were correct. when you have a child that you're not prepared to have, the poverty, your chances of being in poverty are significantly higher. and none of the proposed legislation does anything to make health care, raising a family, choosing abortion, seeking an abortion earlier, seeking a safer abortion. none of these are helped by the proposal legislation. >> so i want to talk a little about the additions that the gop made to the franks bill. i think it underscores how out of touch they really are. they add an exception to save a mother's life. the language essentially says if the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest against a minor, as long as that minor has

reported it at any time prior to the abortion, to the proper law enforcement agencies, or if the incest against the minor has been reported at the time prior to the abortion to a government agency, legally authorized to act on reports of child abuse or neglect, essentially then that's okay. and dorothy, what strikes me in that is just a complete lack of understanding of how hard it is to have, particularly children of incest and abuse to come forward and that usually when they do, it may be quite a bit of time after the actual incidents. so much in what they've written there does not reflect how these things usually happen. >> just a host of problems with the legislation. the basic premise of it that abortion should be banned at 20 weeks is a problem that i would say violates the constitution and the rules that the supreme court has already laid down.

but then in addition to that, adding this exception with all these rules and restrictions to it. again, shows the little trust in women and children reporting rape or sexual abuse, but also a lack of understanding of how difficult it is to do that. and the circumstances that make it hard for women and children to always be able to report if they've been sexually assaulted. >> we're going to have to leave it there. my thanks to tracy and stacy. thanks, guys. next, the president heads to ireland where he'll be face to face with paul ryan's austerity gone amok. you are watching "disrupt" on msnbc. so you can capture your receipts, and manage them online with jot,

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for their family. that's why i created the honest company. i was just a concerned mom, with a crazy dream. a wish that there was a company that i could rely on, that did all of the hard work for me. i'm jessica alba, and the honest company was my dream. [ male announcer ] legalzoom has helped a million businesses successfully get started, including jessica's. launch your dream at legalzoom today. call us. we're here to help. we noted earlier president obama heads to northern ireland on monday for the g-8 summit. according to republicans, the

president has been leading this for years. >> president obama i think would like us to be like europe. ? they want an entitlement society like holland and other european countries have. >> we're headed down the road europe is already on. ? he is a european social democrat. >> he is exactly the tradition of the french socialist or the german socialist. >> let's be fair, let's be equal, let's be like europe. >> even while conservatives denounce all things european, some leaders are the ones actually pushing for european style austerity in response to the fiscal crisis. they've called time and again for the kind of severe cuts that europe actually enacted in an attempt to lower their nation's debts and stabilize their economy. in contrast, president obama and the united states enacted a more balanced approach which included stimulus spending. g-8 leaders are referring to monetary activism. at the same time, the united states has also enacted 2.5

trillion in deficit reduction. america has had job gains for the last 32 months. the dow has soared above $15,000. home prices are bouncing back and consumer confidence is improving. on the other hand, europe continues surg its longest economic slump in the history of the euro. if you want to talk about europe, the real you're, just remember, their budgets could have been written by paul ryan and their unemployment is 12.2%. joining me now, our senior fellow at the center on budget and politics priorities and heather mcgee, vice president of dmos.org. i'm so excited to have this economic. so the president is headed to the g-8. put us in the room. you've got the president facing the italian prime minister whose country has 12% unemployment. the german chancellor whose gdp shank 1.4% in the last five

years it seem these are the pem who best prove austerity is not working. >> if you want to see a natural experiment, kind of rare in economics you can look at two different countries who did it different ways. the example is a very good one. just to be clear, we've been doing a very small version of that here. our deficit has been falling too quickly to support. it does have a little bit of ooff behind it but not enough. in europe they're going very deeply in the wrong direction. now, one thing we have to understand. part of what is going on is very political but not in the paul ryan sense. if you're talking about paul ryan's austerity motivation, you're talking about wanting to shrink government and cut taxes for rich people. of course in europe, one of the problems is that a lot of germans in the german electorate don't really want to bail out other countries. >> so essentially it seems the

whole case for austerity has fallen apart, right? you had the analysis that backed austerity, unraveled thanks to a math error. i don't do math but you should get that stuff right. the imf said austerity is causing more damage in you're than they had initially thought. so again, it seems that the case, to the points that jarod was making. austerity. the case for austerity should be dead. this all seems to help make the case for more investment. >> absolutely. the economic case for austerity is crumble. we always thought it was a bad way to go. the political case is holding firm. the only way to really explain that incredible contradiction that you pointed out where republicans and conservatives are embracing something that has been damaging to europe while saying they don't want to be like europe is the fact that it is not coherent if you think about it in terms of austerity. it is if you think about it in material of politics, not

economics. if you just basically follow the money. fortunately, conservatives and peel in the right wing in this country have always lined up their interests with those of the wealthy and their corporate donors so it seems completely coherent to say we want to shrink government but also raise taxes. also cut taxes which of course would increase the deficit. >> and to that point, two other data points. again, i feel like support the argument for investment over austerity. one which said, conservatives said the private donations will make up the difference in charity. that's not the case. and then secondly we had a report that essentially showed that those tax breaks for the top earners really go to the top earners. so middle and lower income people are not enjoying benefits of those tax breaks. to your point, i want to bring you in here. what we're saying is, their ideas are not working. within work time and again. >> that's true. and again, if anyone was paying

attention to the economics during the george w. bush years, you saw that kind of supply trickle down stuff is complete fairy dust. in a way it is worse in the american case. in the european case you can say we have these very high debt levels. to be clear, austerity is making them worse, not better so let's get that off the table. if you mentioned the congressional office numbers, they show our deficit situation considerably improving as we all expected once the recession faded. so the problem now is that for a lot of conservatives, they can't point to deficit numbers that are historically high because they've come down. unfortunately for many of these people, they use facts way a drunk uses a street lamp. not for illumination but for support. so if the facts don't fit the case, they don't change their underlying policy suggestions. they just kind of move along and

say here's a different reason why we should shrink government and cut taxes for rich people. >> to that point though, that he is making, you have john boehner acting like it is four or five years ago, right? and let's take a look. here's what he told "good morning america" just this week, he said, quote, i believe that if we're going to increase the debt limit, there ought to be cuts and reforms in place that are greater than the increase in the debt limit. now, let's take a look at our projected deficit. as a percentage of our gdp, it is already flat lining for the next decade. it is like he is speaking to a reality that no longer exists. how do we get him into 2013 mode? >> it really might be impossible as long as president obama is still the president. you're going to want to see him use every piece of every lnch he has to not exact economic sort of growth or anything having to do with a real austerity plan,

actually. i don't actually buy that the republicans want to see austerity. they want to see political pain for the president. like the income defense industry for the wealthy. they want to make sure that tax rates stay low. do some symbolic votes on the aca, the key stone pipeline. none of that has to do with jobs and the economy. >> exactly right. thank you for your time this afternoon. i really appreciate it. thanks. next, a powerful phone call and the political play of the day. this is "disrupt" on msnbc. ♪ stay in the groove with align. ♪ need help keeping your digestive balance in sync? try align. it's a probiotic that fortifies your digestive system with healthy bacteria 24/7. because your insides set the tone. stay in the groove with align.

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we're going to end this afternoon on the political play of the week. earlier we reported that president obama spoke to leaders of britain, france, italy and germany in advance of their g-8 summit. the one person obviously not included, fellow g-8 attendee and current supporter of the assad regime in syria, russian president vladimir putin. excluding putin certainly seemed like an attempt to isolate

russia and create leverage ahead of the g-8 summit. it sent a public signal that russia and by proxy, iran and hezbollah will face intense pressure in their support for syrian president assad. having worked in previous g-8 meetings, what struck me was the prediplomatic work gets done at the staff or the ministerial level leading up to the meeting. you want your leader to go in with no surprises ready to close the deals. since we know that putin does not tend to respond well to that kind of public pressure, the question here is really whether or not this move is going to work or will it make russia's cooperation that much harder? that's something we'll be watching. that does it for me on this saturday afternoon. thank you very much for your time. don't forget, give us your thoughts on the ongoing crisis in syria. what do you think the president should could to end the conflict there? find us on facebook and tweet us at msnbcdisrupt.

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good evening, americans. live from minneapolis. holy smokes! it's 5:00 eastern. let's get to work. >> i do expect that the majority of republicans voting for the farm bill. >> this is just one small problem and it is a big one. >> legislation in favor of monsanto's activities pushed through very strongly. >> the ultimate loser will be the farmers. >> corporations are people. >> you want to be in corporation agriculture, you'll be in bed with monsanto.