good evening americans. welcome to the live show live in minneapolis. holy spokes, 5:00 eastern time. let's get to work. >> we will never again have a republican president. ever. if amnesty goes into effect. >> we have been looking for heros for a very long time. >> it may sound mellow dramatic. >> gone. >> we told these people in washington it rise up, we cannot abandon the gang of 70 or they will be slaughtered. >> remember, there is no i in team america. >> i think the conservative movement in this country does not want immigration reform. >> we will tell you the good

guys and tell you the bad guys. >> take some head-shaking crowd with them. >> joet baby /* /- ♪ baby don't hurt me no more ♪ >> all right, thanks. ♪ ♪ >> good to have you with us tonight, folks. thanks for watching. if you think that immigration reform is a slam dunk and there's going to be some great deal, i got to bust your bubble tonight. i don't think it's going to happen. members of the's tea party and right wing noise machine are on a crusade to kill the bipartisan gang of 8s bill.

we will see the offensive we witnessed on a debate over obama care. michele bachmann of minnesota went on fox news's exile talent glenn beck's program to beg his audience to engage in what is a revolt against their own party. >> and we're inviting the people, inviting all of the people to come next wednesday to this lincoln douglas style debate on amnesty because it is important that we have it. don't forget when john mccain put this bill forward in 2007, the american people pushed that back really hard. so hard the bill failed. the phone lines melted in capitol hill. and a lot of your viewers don't even know we are in the middle of that fight right now. and we're losing badly. why? because members of congress don't even know the fight is going on. we need your viewers to melt the fo phone lines and say, don't vote for the immigration bill -- >> this is a heck of a sales pitch.

you have to give her credit. but it is not just michele bachmann. this is a converted effort across the board. 450 right wing talk show host in america who will all be on the same page saying, we got block this. it is amnesty. it's wrong. a coalition of 150 conservatives launched a campaign against reform releasing a letter urging the senate to scrap the bill, start over from scratch. and of course the letter was signed by members of the tea party organizations and conservative leaders. now when you say conservative leaders and you think about that, we are talking about the michelle of the world, eric eriksson's, monica crowly and eric wests. but it doesn't just underestimate the potential impact on the sweeping legislation which the countries needs. because i believe we will see an anti-immigration reform effort parallel to what we saw on obama care. these conservatives are going to pull out all the stops that say

whatever they have to say, call whoever they have to call. get all hands on deck to thwart this immigration reform. they are not going to allow obama care and immigration reform to come through with an eight-year period with this guy. we have seen what the tea party base is capable of. they could disrupt a lot of stuff. now when michele bachmann sat down with world net daily, she explained all of this. >> we're going to have amnesty, perpetual amnesty for illegal immigration and the whole political system will change. why? there is president obama's number one political agenda item. because he knows we will never again have a republican president, ever, if amnesty goes into effect. we will perpetually have a progressive liberal president, probably a democrat, and probably see the house of representatives good into democrat hand and the senate will stay in democrat hand. so you will have a permanent

liberal progressive democrat class and you will never again be able to see our country return to its constitutional foundations. that's what's at risk right now. it may sound mellow dramatic. i don't mean it that way. this is that big and that important. >> wow. >> i mean, she is saying that if immigration reform goes through, we're never going to have any republicans in power again because this will just be a big give away to democrats in the progressive movement. it is that simple in their mind. but you know what that is? that soundbite is an admission. an admission that republican opponent know they are vulnerable. they have nothing on the table for wage earners in this country. they want to stop reform because of the long-term political implications for the republican party. they have no plan for workers so why would they let 11 million undocumented workers be americans? in order to get head shakers, they have to do what bachmann is doing there. they have to present this as threat to the country.

threat to jobs. threat it security. i know you think glenn beck and michele bachmann are off the rails politically and they are out there and not in the mainstream. but they do have followers. and i think that they do have enough that would make a difference that would disrupt this legislation. just listen to this. >> i spoke about it pretty harsh on radio today and the leadership of the gop were on the phones with my producers trying to get on immediately and trying to say wait this is not -- so the leadership of the gop must have either been listening or receiving phone calls immediately. so we have a very active audience and -- i hope. i hope we have your back. >> come to town on wednesday. we've got a slot for you at the press conference. >> the leadership of the republican party is calling the producers of glenn beck. saying we've got to get on the air to keep this whole thing together. really?

folks, i said on this broadcast last night, that republicans in their heart, they don't want immigration reform. they are addicted. they have been addicted for years. to cheap labor. they do not want to have 11 million undocumented workers have a ray hope of some day being an american citizen where they would potentially join a union. they don't want wage earners to have any power. this is all about destroying immigration reform. this is all about another loss for president obama. that's what they want to do. this would be viewed in the long-term political history as nothing but a big victory for the progressive movement and a bunch of tag alongs for the republicans who have never led on anything in this nature. now one thing the tea party does have on its side and that's history. a lot of things have changed since 2007. but immigration reform has been defeated before. they do have success on their side when it comes to history.

and i do think that the republicans in their heart really don't want to do this. they are doing this. because they feel like they have to because of the math of the last election. they know that we are a changing country. and before they offer up any plan for any worker or wage earner in this country, the first thing they are kwo going to do is figure out, how do we win the election. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question, is john boehner powerful enough to stop the tea party from blocking immigration reform? text a for yes. next b for no. to 67622. you can always go to our blog and leave a comment there. we always love to hear from you. joining me tonight, congressman from arizona, raul greaga and loretta sanchez. great to have both of you with us tonight. >> thank you? >> congressman, does the tea

party have the chops to mount the charge to thwart immigration reform? this country? >> i think that they had the chops. they don't have the same level of ability like they did in past, but you have it take ittiusly because these three people that you said on the screen is an effort and very dangerous effort by the way in that they are skurting a lot of issues and not dealing with the fundamental rethalt we have 11 million people and a plan in the senate that why not far from perfect is the beginning to normal looizing lives for 11 million people in this country. i suspect as it debate gets uglier that issues of racish ice of language, issue of heritage

will be become and more part of the dialogue and this that is dangerous for america. and the three people that you mentioned are doing this country not only disservice but a very, very dangerous game with our society. congresswoman sanchez, what do you think the point of the tea party is here? what is their motivation? >> i don't know, i think their motivation is they just don't want any more immigrants in. they say they want legal immigrant but under the current little system we let not very many in. in fact we don't bring in enough people to really make the america that we need to keep the economy going et cetera. and so if they really care about america, they understand in the future we need more workers. currently we have workers that

don't have documents. whrs when you're undocumented, you're taking advantage after lot of fronts. most employers have good employees. but bad employers pay them less, they don't have benefits, if they get work, they are trashed and out they go. what happens to mter can worker that they also see wages depressed when these bad employers are using these people. if we would legalize these people and if they would have basic rights in the country, we would see all of america rise. >> glenn beck compared this conservative right to the civil rights movement. congressman, what is your response to that? >> that is -- not only -- it is almost harassy for him to make that comparison. in fact, it is.

the civil rights movement is about fulfilling people's rights. to make the values of the nation real for all-americans, regardless and comprehensive reform. and it is about extending values to 11 million people here, working and that's the rereality and to immigrate them into the great society of ours. simple as that. but to by a car the fight against emigration reform to the civil rights movement is hair assy and sis service to the sacrificers that many, many made it make sure all rights for all people. >> is speaker boehner going to be able to hold his caucus together and get something done on this? that's a big question and i just don't have confidence that there is legislation coming forth from the conservatives in the house that is going to give confidence to 11 million undocumented workers to step forward, come out of the shadows and be part

of america the way they want to be. steve king compete tweeted 20,000 self professed invaded his office. schumer and mccaine, both members of the gang of 8 will, were asked to come guard his door. what does this rhetoric do for the republican party? >> i mean, that just ridiculous. these are mostly young people who are coming. he was afraid when the dreamers came to his door. we certainly see that some of the tea parties and others are within the republican conference to the most extent, especially if the house, are certainly afraid to do this. are looking at any potential poison pill. any way to derail this. they will make a nasty fight of it. certainly we see chairman goodlat of the judiciary committee where a good portion

of the bill will come through his committee wanting it slice and dice it and put it up piece by piece where the reality is that, you know, my colleague for example, raul, he is not going to like everything in the bill. and i'm not going to like everything in the bill. but wore going to have to like enough of it and say this is important enough for america it take this step that we will vote for it. so we really node to keep it in a comprehensive way and that's one of the ways in which they are trying to undo it. >> congressman, what if it fails? what does that say about america? >> if all of the expectations and hopes is that it doesn't, if it fails, i think it will tear at our social fabric. it will say that the values of this nation have been changed. and it'll say to many, many people, not only the 11 million people here, that america is no longer the welcoming nation. the nation of opportunity. the nation where you can make a

new and better life. and i think the sadness will be that it will be a pale on this nation if it fails. and the leadership is in the hands of boehner in the house. not only to control, but to have the moral imperative to allow votes to be taken to move this agenda forward, otherwise, it'll be sabotaged in the house as efforts in the senate are under way to sabotage. >> you're going to hear workersvillefide on right wing radio. you will hear the word amnesty about every 30 seconds. great to have you with us on "the ed show." i appreciate your time. happy father's day congressman. thank you. remember to answer tonight's questionnaire. share your thoughts with us on twitter and at ed show and on facebook. follow me on twitter on "the ed show." we always want to know what you think. coming up, the war on men this father's day. we will talk about the republican policies hurting dads the most.

but first, shooter takes aim at the president's credibility. you won't believe what he said this morning on fox. we'll challenge cheney's claims we we come back. stay with us. we all have one. that perfect spot. a special place we go to smooth out the ripples of the day.

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welcome back to the ed show from minneapolis. thanks for watching. this nsa story, you know what it's doing? it is giving the republicans the chance to do what they do best, trash the president for no reason. dick cheney had the nerve to bring up the issue of credibility. >> in terms of credibility, i don't think he has credibility. i think one of the biggest problems we have is an important

point where the president should be able to stand up and say, this is saving american lives and i support it. the guy has failed to be forthright and honest on things like benghazi and the irs. so he has no credibility. >> forthright, honest, credible, come on, dickster. some of us don't forget in america, i'm personally still waiting for iraqi oil to pay all the boils. dick cheney is the man who took us into war on iraq with false pretense. dick cheney was the man who was vice president when we were hit on 9/11. and dick cheney has the nerve to get out there and say we have no credibility? he is picking the the democrats as much as he is the president. this i go never got close to killing osama bin laden. and the fact is that and now dick cheney has the nerve to go on national television and say president obama has no credibility. almost as outrageous as shooting someone in the face and getting away with it.

president obama has done more to dismantle al qaeda in one term than bush and cheney did in two terms. he killed osama bin laden and has taken a number of other ranking al qaeda members. even in the outrage, president obama is doing just fine. apparently america has no problem with it. his approval rating hasn't taken a hit. even during the so-called scandals. americans trust this president. this man provided healthcare for 30 million uninsured people. saved the american automobile industry. created 6 million private sector jobs. who do you want to be believe in the backdrop, backdrop of this entire conversation that they can present to this country is that president obama is just a damn crook and whatever we throw up there you should believe. whether it is the irs, benghazi, no matter how many hearings we have or a story or nsa. by the way, we are spying on everybody.

eye find it hard to believe that dick cheney would pin his credibility on a disgruntled employee who want to be a hero and ends up in china. martin luther king, jr. didn't go to china. and neither did a lot of other heros who wanted to see change in this country. they faced the music. and for more on this, i want to go to two of my friend who are very liberal and we may disagree on this. radio talk show host tom hartman and also with us is adam green, co-founder of the aggressive campaign committee. great to have you with us. tom, you firt. 70% of our intelligence budget is handed out to private contractors. is this dangerous? should it be changed? should we refirst this? your thoughts, tom. >> thank you. by the way, happy father's day. great to see you again. >> and to you, my friend. >> thank you. this started in large part with the whole reagan administration

idea that government isn't solution to our problems. government is the problem. therefore, let's turn things over to private corporations. when the government is doing spying, which we want government to do, and is a totally appropriate function, and other police state functions, there are systems for oversight of that that are relatively transparent. at least within government. between different branches of government. legislative and judicial. once that gets outsourced to private for-profit corporations, first of all you layoff a bunch of government employees. probably tens of thousands or more. who are also union members in many cases. secondly, you got ceos skimming money off the top. but third and most important, under the freedom information act and other transparency requirements these don't apply to private contractors. i think we've got a problem, ed. >> i think it is a question of loyalty. is there loyalty undoubtedly to the country or to profit and who they are working for? and do they take their job as

seriously as someone who may be in uniform or trained by the government? i think these are fair conditions. i talked to lawmakers very disturbed by this percentage. this morning dennis mcdonough eye lighted the debate. >> the debate in 2 it 004/2005 was a program that had no congressional ainvolvement, no congressional oversight and no checks and balances that we have today. when president obama came into office in 2009 after being elected in 2008, he was skeptical. he took a hard look at them. as result we changed many ways we deal with the programs. not just the intelligence committees but the judicial committees and every member of

congress has been given a classified white paper to review it take a look at these. >> adam green, do you buy what chief of staff of the white house says? >> what he said is that congress is informed. but that -- that ignores the paint point of what edward snowden did, which is reveal a crime by the nsa of lying to congress. it doesn't help to have an informed congress if that information is a lie. ron wyden, who has been on this show, and i assume you respect a lot, asked the national intelligence, does the nsa collect data on millions or hundreds of millions of americans. the answer, quote, no, sir. widen followed up, and he said no again. that's a problem. the duly representative over citizens, with an oversight, are not given the full information they need. you're right, dick cheney is the

completely flawed person to make any kind of critique about lying to the american people. but it is a real issue. >> but the chief of staff says it is not the same techniques and program that was in place back in 2006 when the cheney people were doing it. that the president obama has brought in checks and balances in his administration and congressional oversight that was not there before. now i have to respectfully challenge you. are you willing to take snowden's word over someone who's in the program sni think that's where we are right now as a country. who do we believe? a guy that goes to china or do we believe someone who is actually involved in the program or the president of the united states because that's where the buck stops. your thoughts? >> a couple point here. so one, i don't think you criticized the wisconsin 14 when they left the state and used every tool it make sure the public got a full public debate and it was thrust into the

public debate. if they hadn't left the state there would have not nothing about the budget. this man had courage -- >> wait, wait. adam, we are not talking about the wisconsin 14. there's no parallel here np this is annish you've state security. state secrets. are we going to believe a rogue employee or are we going to believe the president of the united states who is chief of staff said this morning that they have put implemented processes of oversight which was backed up today by mike rogers, who is intelligence chair, in the house. he says it is about phone numbers. not about the personal information that this guy is claiming it to be. >> all i'm saying is there is nothing inherently wrong with traveling to force a public debate. nothing is wrong with that. the broader point of who do we trust, the obama administration has corroborated the main thing that edward snowden has said, which is that government does collect data on millions or hundreds of millions of people

in contrast to what the nsa told congress. that's the core of the entire thing. we can argue around the edges but we now know the nsa lied to congress. duly elected official answers that's real problem and finally we have a debate. as elizabeth said -- >> okay. how do you read this? >> i have two thoughts on it, ed. first of all, i don't think that the major scandal of water gate was deep throat. and i don't think that major scandal looking back on the vietnam war was elseburg. though they were characterized at some point as that way. i think we will look back and say, snowden, who apparently committed a criminal act forced an important conversation here. a. b, the other thing that's important to remember is that up until 2001, we had court that actually, i mean, the foreign intelligence courts, they were secret courts, but at least part of judiciary system that oversaw

government snooping. bush and cheney stopped that and they stopped it illegally. obama put that back into place. now i would say it is the protections are nowhere as strong as they should be. but yeah, you just -- having dick cheney criticize barack obama is insane. >> there is no question about that. gentlemen, we're out of time. i always appreciate having you on the program. adam green, tom hartman, thank you for being here tonight. coming up, another conservative joins the war on women. republican trent franks makes a stunning allegation against the democrats. >> it's democrats that keep forcing the rape issue into this debate. they have done it ever since roe versus wade. >> first, i'm taking your questions. ask ed live. that's ahead. stay with us. all business purchases.

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first question, why is anything sarah palin says, considered news? >> luke, i'm not quite sure it's news but it is something that some people do pay attention to. enough where fox news thinks that they can create a market around her. and get viewers and that's exactly why she's hireed. i certainly wouldn't put her in the arena as someone who makes news of relevance. our next question comes from diane hoganson lineman. what was your greatest father's day gift? my son, dave, gave me a card two years ago and it was the nicest thing that was ever given to me on father's day. dave gave me a card explaining, in this card, why he thinks i'm a great dad.

and i have a business brief case i carry with me and to this day, i still have that card in my brief case. and i've tried a to be a good dad and role model. we all have our fallings. but my son thinks i'm pretty cool, and he put it into a words in a card that i just didn't ever want it lose. and that's just about the best gift my son's ever given me. stick around, the real talk panel is next. we'll right back on "the ed show." [ male announcer ] citi is over 200 years old. in that time there've been some good days. and some difficult ones. but, through it all we've persevered, supporting some of the biggest ideas in modern history.

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welcome back.

it's the question no one can answer. when are republicans going to stop talking about rape. republicans in congress set aside their cooked up scandals this weekend to continue their war on women. trent franks is trying to pass the buck on his comment about rape and pregnancy. >> the reality is, it is not republicans talking about this. it is democrats that keep forcing the rape issue into this debate. they have done it ever since row versus wake. >> with murdoch with his comment, made during a judiciary committee hearing, on his law, on his bill to outlaw abortions after 20 weeks. >> before when my friends on the left side of the aisle here try to make rape and incest the subject because you know, the incidents of rape resulting in pregnancy are very low. >> the congressman says his comment was taken out of

context. but it was enough for republicans to replace him as the bill's debate manager in the house. for more on this, i'm joined tonight by win stead, zerlna maxwell and joan walsh from salon.com. i don't know, liz, maybe they just aren't trainable. >> the fact they don't see how incredibly sad and pa thet tick is, that women, every time they have to propose some kind of anti-choice legislation, that we have to remind them of the seriousness of a woman being raped or incest being involved. you keep conveniently forgetting and are so out of touch with what women go through that we have to keep reminding you. >> when will they learn their

lesson that maybe this isn't a good subject for conservatives. >> they are definitely disjointed. rape and incest is part of the conversation. if you are banning all abortions then the logical follow-up is, what about women who are raped. every woman who is raped has it think about the risk of pregnancy. that is just a fact, that is the reality. so the fact they can't talk about it means they are not toward deal with the real issues that we're facing. >> joan, is this going to follow them all the way into the mid terms? how do you see the republican party fixing this? or the conservative movement for that matter and the way they view women? they constantly certainly don't want to help out with equal pay in the workplace. they are against any aggressive movement making lives better in this country. >> this will dog them in mid terms for sure, ed. this is their policy. these are the thing they

believe. the notion that these are victims and we are the ones forcing rape talk on them. politically raping them, i guess. is so absurd because they leave it out of their equation because they don't care. this is their policy. they don't want any exceptions to ban an abortion even in cases of rape or to often save the life of the mother. it is a situation where their policy keeps being exposed and that is what controversy is. >> and if i can just add, their entire policy around this issue is based on such inconvenient truths. truths that -- take the rape out of the equation. people have same. birth control fails. most abortions are by women who have a kid already and are making economic decisions. they live in a world with abstinence and unicorns and have a lot of money and everything is

beautiful. >> let's cut money and contraception. >> this week, rick perry vetoed a bill to prevent wage discrimination. the bill would have brought texas law in line with the lilly led better act passed by president obama and congress in 2009. joan, what is rick perry trying to prove here? >> he is a throw back and he cares more about the rights of business than the rights of women. this law is necessary. it made it possible to use state courts and not always have to go the federal bench for recourse. it is a popular piece of legislation. it is passing in most other states but rick perry is delusional. still thinks he could possibly run for president again or be president some day and he thinks this is what business wants and therefore it doesn't matter what women want. business comes before women in their political calculus. >> and on this -- go ahead. >> i was going to say and rick

prry is never, you know, he cuts child care, cut the chips program, he is not going to be part of the exchange program. when he talks about federal legislation already on the books, he hasn't been helpful to women in any way shape or form. >> right. >> on this father's day, here is a story that caught our attention. and lori is a professor at florida international university. she wrote into the new york times, is forced father hood fair? she said, while the women's movement has made motherhood voluntary, men who accidentally em preg nate a woman have few options. joan, your response to this. is she suggestion that men be allowed to advocate their responsibility of father hood. >> i think she is suggesting that. i think she is saying that men who have sex and decide they don't want to take

responsibility for whatever the outcome is should not have to. and i think, again, it is a little bit of a throw back. there's a little bit -- we are focussing on the rights of men. let's be concerned about the rights of men when we still haven't secured rights for women. >> i would like to know how many women have doesn'thave accidentd sex with them. and accidentally didn't wear a condom. when men do not use a condom and do not say to the women, i won't have sex with you without a condom, they are saying the birth control i choose is abortion. men who do not use condoms say i am wanting an abortion if i make a baby with you. >> tonight in a survey i asked you, is john boehner powerful enough to stop the tea party from blocking immigration reform? 7% of you say yes.

93% of you say no. coming up, the gop crazy machine. just cranked out a michele bachmann clone. >> give my creation life! >> jim brighton's scene comes to life in our pretender scene next. stay with us. y home for the big family reunion. you must be garth's father? hello. mother. mother! traveling is easy with the venture card because you can fly any airline anytime. two words. double miles! this guy can act. wanna play dodge rock? oh, you guys! and with double miles you can actually use, you never miss the fun. beard growing contest and go! ♪ i win! what's in your wallet?

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and save a lot more than money. call or click today. and our pretender tonight, a new michele bachmann clone. freshman congressman jim bridenstine from oklahoma. michele bachmann may be onnor way out but she passed her torch it a blind ignorance to congressman bridenstine. >> the president's dishonesty, incompetence tense, vengefulness and lack of compass, shows he is not able to lead. >> this is only the beginning for bridenstine.

weeks after a tornado ravaged moore, oklahoma no his state, he wants to defund climate and environmental research. >> this president spends 30 times as much money on global warming research as he does on weather forecasting and warnings. for this gross misallocation, the people of oklahoma are ready to accept his president's apology. >> he wants the president to say he's sorry for studies designed to better understand the environment. sorry for researching the root of the natural disaster. sorry for representative measures and a desire to keep sit citizens safe? yes, i would say an apology is in order, but from the congressman.

obviously, this is a great way for us to celebrate father's day and just to remind ourselves

those of us who are fathers how lucky we are. it's the best job i've got. and i know that all the fathers here feel the same way. and the idea that we might get afternoon ice cream. is always good. >> welcome back to "the ed show." this is a story for the folks who take a shower after work. president obama says fatherhood is one of the best jobs in the world. but dads are having a tough time on the regular job market lately. unemployment is up among men while the jobless rate is dropping for women. traditionally male-dominated industries like manufacturing and construction have suffered more than any others since the recession began. big companies shipping jobs overseas, closing factories and of course leaving men struggling to make ends meet in this country. the same companies can't offshore the jobs dominated by women, careers in health care, temporary office work,

restaurants in the service industry, retail have added more than a million jobs since january. meanwhile, the male dominated manufacturing industry has lost jobs over the past two months. let's bring back our real talk panel, lizz winstead, and joan walsh. you women are absolutely taking over the world. i absolutely surrender. >> we are, ed. >> we are taking over. >> i love that all the women in that graphic were hot. >> all these hot women are working. >> well, i think one of the things is that we've seen the decline of unions, and that's really a huge factor in the decline of male wages. it is tough for men. it's tough for men without a college degree. the other thing, though, we need to encourage men to think about so-called women's work. our gendered ideas of men's and women's work are now -- they've always worked against women. now they're working against men. >> right. >> it's so interesting. when my father passed away a

couple of years ago, and when he was in hospice care, he wished that he had a man as a nurse and an attendant. i could not encourage more that men should go into these fields that are also traditionally constantly fighting for an equal wage that services what is good. these traditional jobs, teaching, nurses, have always never been paid to what they're actually -- how hard it is to do them. that needs to go up as well to encourage everybody to be able to do them. >> here is a reminder from the last time you professionals were on this program, "the ed show." republicans like erick erickson support bad economic policies, but they freak out when they see the results. >> having moms as the primary breadwinner is bad for kids and bad for marriage. and reality shows us that's the truth. >> where is the republican outrage about putting dads back to work? >> yeah, really. >> but also too, one of the things we need to be talking about is equal pay is a part of

this conversation. so when women are in the workforce and supporting 40% of american families because they're getting paid less, it's impacting the kids. so we need to get the men back to work in jobs that they can sustain their families. and the women already working need to get paid the same as the men doing the work. >> when you look at the statistics of the things break relationships apart. >> right. >> finances. >> money. >> yeah. >> finance, finance, finance. >> and yet men are being blamed. charles murray wrote a whole book about white men saying about white people what he used to only say about white people. but the white lower class men are lazier. they don't want to get married. they're not supporting their kids, and making it all about moral failings rather than an economy that doesn't have as much use for white men without a college degree. >> it's structural. it's not on an individual basis. the structures are in place not allowing men to get jobs where they can sustain their families. >> and also, the broader picture is a warning. >> all of you would make the

case that this economic recovery that we're having is really favoring women, although we have a pay inequity issue that needs to be addressed in this country. that's what i'm hearing. >> it is. but wages aren't rising fast enough for anybody. labor, male or female, is not sharing in the gains of this alleged recovery. >> let's not forget, we are actually rewarding corporations with tax breaks for shipping jobs overseas still, and that's got to like stop. >> what about student loan rates? i mean, coming up the first part of august, we're going to see the interest rate go to an astronomical of over 6% when banks, of course, get it for half a percent from the fed. there is a terrible inequity there. are we going to see a resurgence in the trades, or are we going to see more and more trade school type opportunities for young people? where are young people going? zerlina, you're just out with a

law degree. what do you see happening? >> yes, because we have to have that happen. and one of the reasons why women are in the workforce in the numbers they are is because they're going to college, they're going to law school, they're going to medical school and getting masters degrees and things of that nature. so they're the ones going to get the higher educations. but then they're getting all of this debt, and now if interest rates are going up, they're going to be saddled with all of this debt for years and years and years. and, you know, in the future, having to support families with a thousand dollars month student loan payment. it's going to hold all families back. >> we need to support trade schools. we need to support community colleges. but we also need to start paying for people -- well, for people's college education. we need to make that a value like it was a value. i feel like some of us are the last generation that this country kept its promises to. we got low -- low tuition, public education through -- you got your b.a. that was expected. that's not the case anymore. >> yeah. and you also have to -- i'm sorry, go ahead, joan walsh.

>> lizz winstead, thanks for being with us. >> thanks, ed. >> liz, i think you can relate to this. this is probably the first father's day in decades where i haven't caught a fish. but that's okay. >> aww. >> fishing, it's a bone of contention. >> that's "the ed show." happy father's day to all of you. back next week. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] for dad's first job as dad. nissan tests hundreds of child seats to give you a better fit and a safer trip. snug kids, only from nissan. ♪ that i remember i should probably do laundry more often. yeah. yeah. cause' by the time i do there's all these mystery stains. i mean is it coffee? is it bronzer? did i play rugby at some point? could be gravy. i do like gravy. anyway, so my mom sent us these tide boost thingies to put in the wash with tide.

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