this is "now." i'm joy reid in for alex wagner. yesterday after a tough day of setbacks in the house and dlib bir ra ber races in the senate, they got a big boost. the senate immigration bill would decrease federal budget deficits by $197 billion between 2013 and 2033. the -- 2023. the washington post ez ra clyne writes, this isn't just a good cbo report, it's a wildly good cbo report. they're saying immigration reform is a free lunch. the report comes at a critical time with majority leader harry reed and the gang of 8 pushing

before the july 4 recess. when it comes to immigration reform in the lower chamber, the set backs are greater than the step forwards. yesterday house speaker boehner reflected the bill's uncertain fate in the house when he told reporters that he would not bring the bill to the floor without support from a majority of his party. >> any immigration reform bill that is going to go into law ought to have a majority of both parties' support if we're really serious about making that happen. and so i don't see any way of bringing an immigration bill to the floor that doesn't have the majority support of republicans. >> now boehner has violated the so-called pastor rool. the majority of the majority support a bill in order to bring it to a vote three times over the last few months. some republicans have warned boehner that if he allows a vote for the immigration bill, it

might cost him his speakership. on monday representative dana rorbacher sounded that warning call. >> if speaker boehner moves forward and permits this to come to a vote even though the majority of republicans in the house, and that's if they do, oppose whatever it is that's coming to a vote, he should be removed as speaker. >> now if boehner is serious about not bringing it to a vote, this could threaten immigration reform. when nbc news luke russert asked if he could lose his job, boehner seemed less than concern. >> they said if you bring immigration reform you will lose your job. do you think that will happen? >> maybe. >> somebody get that man a bourbon.

joining me today, editorial director of the national journal, rob for man and joining me from washington, the questioner himself, nbc news capitol hill correspondent luke russert. luke, how are you doing? >> reporter: good to see you, joy. >> you got some laughs out of speaker boehner asking him whether or not he could lose his speakership over bringing a bill to the floor and getting a vote from democrats. does anybody in his caucus really believe that boehner is going to stick to the hatchet rule this time? >> reporter: right now they do. he reiterated it to them three times saying he would not move on comprehensive immigration reform saying that he would not move unless it had a majority of the majority. the immigration bill will proceed. bob goodlack is no friend of immigration reform advocates by

any means, and they're so far going on the piecemeal approach. ones from steve king that would basically take away that order that president obama did about dreamers, one that would allow any officer of the united states to become a de facto immigration reformer. that's the path the gop is going on now which is very different than the senate gop. looking at this, joy, right here right now, this looks like a very difficult path for the senate bipartisan gang of eight bill in the house. john boehner called the trigger mechanisms from border security in that bill laughable. that's a huge rebuke to marco rubio who could be the standard bearer? 2016 to have the republican senator call it laughable. that doesn't boyd well in the house. lastly i'll say this, joy. what has been the one thing that has made john boehner and the house republican congress have to go to the table and have to work? it's been deadlines. it's been them being in the corner with a gun to their head that if they do not act, then

something horrific happens. there's no deadline on immigration reform. it's not like if they don't get it done by this date that suddenly the flood gates will open and they have no say in the process. they conceivably could sit on this all the way until the fall and then we have to face a debt limit crisis. this goes on the back burner. what the republicans will say is look, we tried with our piecemeal approach. democrats weren't listening to us. we tried and we're sorry. honestly how that plays out in 2014, 2016, a lot of house guys don't care. they don't have latinos in their district. one democrat told me we're not going to compromise anymore on this because why should we? we have the higher ground in 2014 and 2016. if they want to hang their standard bearer, marco rubio out to dry, let them. >> it's interesting that you mentioned that. there's no latinos in their district. they're not worried. i'm wondering, luke, if there's also the sense of what's not going on in the house is presidential politics. you have a guy named paul ryan

in the house who wanted to be vice president who was on a national ticket. he had to look at bigger. now all of the potential presidential candidates are in the senate so they're the ones that have to look at sort of the national politics, the implications for the republican brand if they don't do immigration reform. to your point, the house people don't care. are they having any conversation at all about how their intransitive could affect the republican party's brand? >> the conversation's been out there. you've mentioned paul ryan. he's been an advocate of immigration reform squarely on the economic benefits that we've seen in the cbo report yesterday. joy, remember we had preevus saying we're going to change the gop, there's a new face. immigration reform definitely has to get done because we're going to live or die by it? those voices have been pushed by the back burner because chairman goodlack and other folks who are very hard core on this, for lack of better words, they seem to be the prevailing voice. who knows, maybe john boehner

has a profile in courage come this fall and maybe this thing is broken and puts together 14 times by then, but i don't think the national politics are part of this conversation in the house gop right now. they're more concerned about doing what they want, being the blocking minority which is what many believe through divine intervention is why they're here in washington, d.c. >> stay there, luke. i want to bring the panel in. i want to start with you, maggie. this is sort of stunning. you have a republican party, the smart guy, the guys who do the politics understand it. they've got to do something on immigration reform, that's what the conventional wisdom is. in their district it doesn't matter. they're down with the party, we don't care. >> they care about getting re-elected. i think what boehner said is extremely important. i think if we could stop using the phrase hassert rule, it's more of a guideline rather than a rule. i thought what boehner said was a clear line in the sand. it was clear that the house is not operating in the same way that the senate is.

to say there's a bit of a disconnect, they're hanging marco rubio out to dry. marco rubio has made conflicting statements. >> he's walked away in a lot of places. >> correct. so i think you can watch rubio and see where you think the house is heading with this. i think it was very clear to a lot of people this could be heading south and rubio laid down that line about same-sex partner provision in the bill. this is not a surprise from what we're seeing in the house. it is what we expected. it is a disconnect from what the party says it openly needs to be and where it is getting in terms of messaging and where the practical legislative realities are. >> ron, i want to go to you on this. on the question of optics, you have in sort of bizarre image of a national republican party saying we want to woo hispanics. kansas secretary of state is talking about the dreamers, who have got to be the best brand spokespeople for immigration reform you could possibly have. young people want to go to college, join the military, etc. this is the kansas secretary of state talking about dreamers who

protested at his office. >> they were trying to intimidate me as an elected official to change my point of view and certainly they don't like what i've been saying for years and doing for years to stop illegal immigration. they're just not wearing white cloaks, but this is exactly kkk type of intimidation. >> ron? >> that's as sanine and it's indicative of why they're in trouble. there's 24 house republican districts who have 25% hispanics in them and only two of those are plausibly competitive. for the mid-term elections this is a no brainer for the republicans, they don't care about this. in 2016 this could make the republican party irrelevant, this kind of politics. i do think we have to be careful not to get too breathless about what happened yesterday. this is just the first inning. all the speaker said that he is going to do is insist on a majority of republicans for this

vote. we know the house is going to put out a very white ring bill. we know the senate will put out the old rubio bill. where this counts is in conference. the speaker did not rule out breaking these so-called guidelines in conference committee. smart people, if there are any smart people in the republican leadership and in the democratic leadership, are there any leaders at the white house and in congress, talking about conference strat fwis, how they can if a nagfinagle their polit. this is all about the conference committee. it's not about the news conference and first bills. >> that's a good point too. on the cultural issue for republicans, understanding they have to get to a final bill, go into conference, they have to fight the culture. they have run out of arguments. there was a piece that ezra klein wrote. he wrote that the cbo report, now saying that the numbers for immigration reform is good for the economy, it forces upon us a

bill that they're least comfortable occupying. they have to say it's for cultural or ethical reasons not economic. >> i think there is an economic aspect, too. the economic recovery such as it is is not broadly felt in the country. there's a sense out there in republican districts and democratic districts that the pie is not expandsing, that it's shrinking. if you're in a place feeling anxious, the idea that we're going to extend citizenship and benefits to a lot of people, that is an anxiety provoking idea. that's the environment we're in. we're in an environment of economic anxiety and therefore difficult issues like this are particularly hard to sort out. i think that the -- you know, i think there's also a sort of credible republican leadership on this too. who can make the argument of the national political argument that actually filters down into the rank and file? >> right. >> no one's doing it now. >> really good pulling it back. if you look at the polling of americans when you ask, do you

think your kids will do better than you? in other words, do you still believe the american dream is there for you? hispanics and african-americans are much more optimistic than blue collar whites, in large part because they see themselves being able to crawl up the ladder. blue collar whites think people are coming their way which is why they look at things like immigration as a threat. >> younger people, 18 to 34 tend to favor immigration reform. one exit question to you, luke. just curious on the hill, what at this point is the impression of marco rubio and the sort of odd games he's playing? give us some scuttlebutt on the hill. >> reporter: well, look. really quickly, i think it's very significant how far out on a limb he's gone on this bill. sure, he's put in some amendments to walk back the compromise, but he's the guy that's going to give people cover. he's gone to bat for this. right now before the senate bill comes over to the house the house is saying, no thank you. that's a huge rebuke to marco rubio and one that if he does

run in 2016, how does he explain that to a republican primary audience? it's not easy. >> oh, what a tangled web we weave. >> reporter: joy, immigration reform is going to come down to most likely, it will be a shot like ray allen hit in your miami heat. >> i was trying not to mention that. amen. chris bosh ending it when he had been getting slimed on twitter all night. >> that foul. >> it was not a foul. thank you very much. we appreciate that. coming up, remember this ad from the mccain campaign? >> he's the biggest celebrity in the world, but is he ready to lead? ah, yeah. the president returned to berlin and guess what, they still like him. 88% of people in germany have confidence in president obama to do the right thing in world affairs. we'll discuss the president's return to berlin next on "now." what are you doing? oh, hey.

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in a speech at berlin's brandenberg gate this morning, president obama proposed a new goal of nuclear reduction. >> i've determined that we can ensure the security of america and our allies and maintain a strong and credible strategic deterrence while reducing our deployed strategic nuclear weapons by up to 1/3. i plan to move on beyond cold war nuclear postures.

even as we remain vigilant about the threat of terrorism, we must move beyond the mindset of perpetual war and in america that means redoubling the efforts to close the prison at guantanamo, it means tightly controlling our use of new technology like drones. at a press conference the president took on the nsa data mining controversy back home. >> we know of at least 50 threats that have been averted because of this information not just in the u.s. but in germany so lives have been saved. >> joining me now is executive vice president of global strategy group, bill burton and joining me from berlin is nbc news political director and chief white house correspondent and chief of the "daily rundown" chuck todd who is traveling with the president.

chuck. >> reporter: joy. >> how you doing? so president obama, he was received with great accolades, 250,000 people estimated at the brandenberg gate. how is the reception this time around? >> reporter: you know, it's funny. there's sort of a split reception if you look at it. if you just read the media in germany, if you talked to basically the german elite, political elite, they would talk about disappointment, that he hasn't fulfilled certain promises. he invoked the nobel peace prize and pivoting to the lack of shutting down get mitmo and dro. he's popular here. joy, this was a political decision by miracle. he's seen as a world leader standing next to president obama who is very personally popular

so when you ask about the reception, that's when you have to look at it from both angles. on the cross side and watching the president as much as i've watched him over the years, i'm guessing that the white house wished they could have been in charge of crowd building. pl bill will tell you this. he enjoyed the outdoor events. when the crowds were there this is the way this was put together. for security reasons he had that reflective glass that was a little bit distracting. that was hard for the cameras. you didn't get the sense of the crowd, the most engaged that they got, he was at the pentagon. the idea of the cold war mentality. we're not going to get -- the idea that there is a surprise

nuclear attack. that is no longer an operative concern anymore. so those are the type of things he's trying to get the pentagon to deal with. >> the optics and the crowd building. one quick question to you about dealing with merkel. one of the things they're saying on the substance of drawing down nuclear weapons, what about nsa? what was the substance of that discussion. we're hearing merkel was pretty critical. >> we're talking about german political folks here who will tell you on one end, look, her criticizing the president and the u.s. surveillance program is good politics for her. the germans very much are much more. who could blame them.

this is a skilled country. there isn't that much sense over this program. >> i want to bring in bill burton who has joined the panel and talk a little bit about that. this is a president who does feed off of that sort of campaign style energy. was it important, do you think, for the president because of all the controversy at home over everything in the drone surveillance here which sounds a lot like the elite in germany, was it important for him to get in front of maybe an audience where he could sort of feed off that energy and give a 2008 obama speech that talks about his ideals that are there despite the reality? >> i don't think so. in the media context, if you were to give a big speech about an important issue in a foreign country, i think it makes sense that you would be in front of a

smaller, subdued crowd. what was important was the substance. it wasn't a big rah, rah kind of speech. we're focusing our forces on things and money. our military ought to be focused on things like the threats that are real, not what happened in 1980. >> for somebody who worked in the communication side for this president, do you think that he needs to give a speech here, a sort of over arching national security all encompassing bringing in nsa drones, all of the things that are creating bipartisan space? >> he's already given a speech like that. the president talked to charlie rose at length in a long interview talking about these issues. i think the president and the white house are doing a good job giving out information about the level of transparency, about the comparisons to what there was during the bush administration. i think if you peace together owl of the things he's doing

he's doing a good job. >> this is fascinating for everybody in the panel, what chuck said, the disconnect about how the elites feel and how the average person sees it, whether it's in germany or here. there does seem to be a disconnect. you have the elite conversation going on about privacy and civil liberties. it's not connected to how ordinary people see the president. >> yes, i think the president's likability has been his calling card for a very long time so it's not a surprise that it's true here. i think historically we have seen the public does not get very engaged. we have not seen a lot of it. i think it would take more than what has come out in order for people to get really outraged by it. that having been said, that doesn't mean this is a conversation we should be having. it's an important conversation. i understand what bill is saying how the white house is handling its message, there has been an at odds quality to the message that the president is putting out. he is very much saying essentially what the bush position was, which is that it is a false sense to say we have to choose civil liberties or

security. we can have both. i don't think a lot of the elites feel like he has answered questions. >> let alone talking about the cold war. >> talk about another division between the elites and common americans. we have the luxury knowing the people who work in the white house. we have met the president and know people in the national security community. we can have a level of trust. people outside of washington don't trust. although know is what's been dragged out of the president and by washington by leakers. they don't know what we don't know and that's going to worry a lot of americans. >> unfortunately, we've got to go. i have to get back to chuck todd. chuck todd, i want to thank you very much. safe travels. >> reporter: of course. yes, ma'am. >> thank you. coming up, arizona governor jan burr did something good this week. a true story. here's a tweet to prove it. the republican known for her finger wagging ways was proud to sign the affordable care act expansion law into law. is like hammering.

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three months and 12 days, that's how long the obama administration and health care advocacy groups have before the affordable care act goes into effect. it needs a lot of healthy people to buy in. if enrollment falls short the insurance markets will be dominated by people who are very sick. that would make insurance very expensive or, even worse, prompt insurers to leave the market. that's the death spiral scenario republican opponents of the law have warned up for years. yesterday the nonprofit group elroll america began a major information campaign which will include tv ads, good old-fashioned knocking on doors. the white house is trying to get the nba on board with a marketing partnership to

encourage people to sign up. the president's former campaign arm, organizing for action, began running a new tv ad that's part of enticing healthy, uninsured americans to sign up. recruiting the uninsured isn't the only problem. whether the government's contingency planning will ensure the timely and smooth implementation of the exchanges by october 2013 cannot yet be determined. meanwhile, before the health exchange is open, nonprofit initiatives are helping to fill in the gaps. one group is the national association of free and charitable clinics. within two weeks of teaming up with msnbc reverend al sharpton will host a free clinic. joining me from baton rouge, louisiana, is ronny whitfield. medical director for the upcoming clinic in new orleans. thanks for joining us, dr. whitfield. >> thank you, joy. thank you for having me. >> tell us a little bit about these clinics, what they do, how

people find them. >> we consider these clinics, joy, the largest clinics in the world for a day, but more importantly, once you're seen in these clinics you're established with the free standing safety net clinics in the surrounding areas. physicians, laymen, nurse practitioners, we all volunteer to come to these clinics for a day. there's advertisements that are done. the donations that we do receive for the national association of free clinics finance the things so that we can have the clinic. there are supplies there. we see patients all day long. this is the fourth time the clinic have come to new orleans. we've seen 15,000 patients with 13,000 volunteers. when i've done the clinics, hypertension, diabetes, h.i.v., chronic diseases that are not being managed. the very first clinic i did in new orleans, i saw a patient who had not seen a doctor in over five years. what people don't realize is once the affordable care act is implemented in 2014, there will

be 30 million people not covered. in louisiana, one out of four louisianans don't have health insurance but many are the working poor. we have to find a way to help them. medicaid is not expanded in our state so there's a lot of issues we're currently deal with. >> you mentioned the working poor. when people think it's a free clinic, these are people who don't have jobs, people who are homeless. can you describe what kind of person is coming to these free clinics in new orleans and around the country? >> right. these are waitresses. these are people that work in movie theaters. individuals that have jobs but their employers are not able to provide health care for them and they cannot afford to pay for their insurance. joy, this is not just for sick people. we're doing well visits, child visits, getting people back to work, pre-employment examinations so it's not just for sick people. so this is a great service. again, we're setting up people that have chronic illnesses like hypertension and diabetes with a

free clinic. the waiver will expire this year so we're trying to find federal or state funding to continue these grants so these clinics can continue to function. >> hold on, dr. whitfield. i want to bring in the panel. he made the point that you have one out of four louisianans and governor jindal, the legislature saying they won't expand the medicaid, how much of a mess is this going to be when you have the affordable care act, now it is law, it is settled law in fact with the supreme court, but you'll have the states with the largest pools of uninsured that is not participating. >> there's a big risk for both parties. republicans, they're going to pay a steep price if people get sick and die and don't get health care. for the president, he has a tough task, number one, implementing it. the law may be settled but the policy is not.

secondly, getting people like millennials to sign on is going to be awfully tough. they don't have a lot of faith in government. they don't think government is very efficient. they're not as hot on the president as they were a couple of years ago. it's going to be really tough to get this implemented. if it does get implemented, republicans are going to trip over themselves and play politics. >> they try to own it, right? you could see republicans in states where it's working turn and and try to say -- >> try to ono bomb ma care? >> yeah. jan brewer, maybe it will be brewer care in arizona. this is a communications issue in a lot of ways. there was a lot of nonmessaging in the very beginning when it was implemented. now there's a huge ramp up, celebrities trying to get the nba involved. trying to get healthy, younger people signed up. when you graduate from college, you get a job without health insurance, it's something you want and you can stay on your parents' health insurance until 26 but when you're young you

feel like you'll live forever. >> there are a lot of big challenges in implementing health care reform. getting enough people into the system to know that you are bringing down costs because there are more people paying into the system. the white house has a very good plan in place and they're building in the plan. they brought in one of the best communicators in washington, tara mcginnis, to communicate the plan. working through all of these elements. they will get the folks into the plan to make it work. the key is getting people into health care reform, but that's going to work. there's a plan to do it and it's going to happen. >> exit question to dr. whitfield. how many people do you expect to see in new orleans at the free clinic? >> over the last free clinics, it's been 3100 patients. we're hoping to see 1100 or 1200 patients. it starts at 10:00 and ends at 5:00. we're there starting the day before until maybe 11:00 that

night. we don't leave until the last patient is see. again, joy, it's a great service. again, you know what i was initially excited about. new orleans has had several catastrophic things that have happened, floods, b.p. oil spills, so what it did for the state was reveal the underlying health issues that were present. so it was great because we got grant monies. we were able to see the people in the neighborhood clinics but now those clinics are in jeopardy. we would normally set these patients up for continuing care to manage diabetes but they're in jeopardy now. again, this is a great service. the volunteers do a great job. we appreciate your platform. >> thank you so much, dr. whitfield. we appreciate you for being here and what you're doing. >> thank you. this note about a continuing msnbc health initiative. msnbc is sponsoring its eighth free health clinic. reverend al sharpton will be there. if you're able to donate or

volunteer, go to the national association of free clinics website to make a donation or sign up to volunteer. if you don't have insurance and need to see a doctor, you can make an appointment on line. coming up, it is coming versus isa. we'll discuss what we've learned from the i.r.s. transcript next on "now." hey linda! what are you guys doing? having some fiber! with new phillips' fiber good gummies. they're fruity delicious! just two gummies have 4 grams of fiber! to help support regularity! i want some... [ woman ] hop on over! [ marge ] fiber the fun way, from phillips'.

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while dramatically reducing waiting time. [ telephone ringing ] now a waiting room is just a room. [ static warbles ] could it be after weeks of scandal mongering and dramatic hearings on the hill, there's no smoking gun at the i.r.s. don't tell that to the tea party patriots at the audit the i.r.s. on capitol hill. darryl issa had led them in hyping the trumped up allegations on misdeeds saying all roads led to the white house in a conspiracy, even calling white house spokesman jay carney a paid liar. >> the administration is still -- their paid liar, their spokesperson, picture behind, he's still making up things about what happens in calling this local rogue. there's no indication.

the reason that lois lerner tried to take the fifth is not because there's a rogue in cincinnati, it's because this is a problem that was coordinated in all likelihood right out of washington headquarters and we're getting to proving it. >> getting to proving it? good luck with that because that now appears to be nothing but a fantasy. frustrated by issa's lack of evidence and selected leaking of bits and pieces of transcript, the top democrat on the oversight committee, cummings, yesterday released 200 pages of transcripts with a key i.r.s. witness john schaefer which appeared to show that the scrutiny of conservative groups seeking a tax exemption began not at i.r.s. headquarters in washington nor in the white house but rather in the cincinnati field office. >> when you look at all of the transcripts, there has not been one single syllable alleging in any way that the white house was

involved in this targeting but yet and still my republican chairman and other chairman in the house have gone about saying that there was some enemies list and that the administration was not being forthright and that they were involved. there's nothing like that. >> "the wall street journal" described the news as more glitz than bombshell while conceding that by all accounts so far the targeting of conservative units started in his i.r.s. unit in cincinnati. don't tell that to the republicans and conservative pun dints who spent weeks in their favorite studios of a vast coverup. >> the tea party groups terrorist, tea baggers, that entire culture has been cultivated by the president and his people. >> this is an agency with an enemies list. this is an exonian. this is a president who since nixon is being revealed.

>> one place we ought to be looking is the obama/biden re-elect. not just the white house, but their re-election team. >> senator, you're 4r50leading charge to abolish the i.r.s. i think that's a fantastic idea. >> they've shown a willingness to target their political enemies. it was wrong when richard nixon did it and it's wrong when president obama did it. >> lou dobbs is still on tv. >> at least he's still reasonable. >> he's still on tv. >> cogent point. >> my favorite part of this whole thing is darryl issa going apoplectic. this is what he tweeted. he was so angry. americans who think congress should investigate i.r.s. misconduct should be outraged at mr. cummings' efforts to obstruct needed oversight by releasing more information. >> well, i can't explain, but i think we've entered the sort of hair splitting gamesmanship sort of part of the phase and i think from there, you know, basically

everyone outside the belt way loses interest and forgets even what the scandal was about. i think we're moving steadily towards that and darryl issa is playing his part. >> he hasn't learned anything. this is what he said last night. he actually said this. i'm deeply disappointed that ranking member cummings has decided to broadly disseminate and post online a 205 page transcript that will serve as a roadmap for i.r.s. officials to navigate investigative interviews with congress. is he saying he released mets thods. isn't the way to testify before congress is to answer the questions? >> this is such a complicated issue that unloads and i'll say i think issa is wrong and cummings is wrong. >> isn't it fwak actually wrong? he knew it and needed the facts and then the actual transcript from the guy in charge proved that he was factually wrong. >> right. according to this transcript it does not appear. again, you're asking me a question that goes a bit beyond my scope of knowledge on the specifics so i'm willing to say, yes, he's absolutely wrong.

i'm not certain based on what you're presenting it sounds if he was basing it all on the transcript that this transcript does not prove what he is saying. >> but go ahead. >> i agree completely. >> i just want to add one other thing. i think the problem here in terms of this issue is there was targeting. we do know there was targeting. there's still the issue of -- >> let me give you a quick statistic. >> hold on, i'll let you finish. there were 1741 groups that applied for tax exemption in 2010. 3557 in 2012. isn't the i.r.s. unit that looked at these groups, isn't it their job to assess whether these groups should get a tax exemption, which is a subsidy from the taxpayer? weren't they investigating? >> i guess my question would be why did the president dismiss the head of the i.r.s.? >> politics. we were all saying you need to do something. >> no, he dismissed the head of the i.r.s. because the i.r.s. admitted what they did was wrong. >> correct. >> no, let me finish.

>> they said -- i'll get to that. >> okay. >> there's no doubt they did and what they did was wrong. the only thing that's in question is how far up did it go, if at all. we need to find out who did it. i feel like we're falling through the looking glass. you have mccarthy and issa saying they're guilty and the white house is saying we're exonerated. until there's been an investigation -- >> hold on a second. make sure we're all in the same place. >> either one. >> each of them, they never said we did something illegal or something wrong. they were attempting to navigate a law that says you are supposed to be engaged not in politics. they re-interpreted primarily versus exclusively, right? these guys, functionaries in cincinnati didn't know how to deal with it. >> they don't know. they don't know. >> but there have been hearings which show that what issa was saying is factually

substantively wrong. >> and the white house says it, too. >> i do think that there is agreement that there was some wrongdoing, that there were things that happened that the president didn't think that were right. people were removed. there are half a dozen investigations going on right now. there's one at the i.r.s. the i.g. is doing one. the justice department is doing one. congress is doing one. there are plenty of investigations and we're going to get plenty of facts so i think that ultimately it looks like, no, this did not originate in washington. that's certainly what the cummings' transcripts show. i think that issa is making a fool of himself by continuing to go down this path of making wild accusations, making statements that he has no basis of fact to make and wasting american's time with this investigation. >> particularly when he has the transcripts himself and is trying to build what looks like a media case against the white house when actually to me the real scandal here is we have groups seeking tax exemption that were doing things like

handing out romney campaign literature. for god's sakes, if that i.r.s. unit is not supposed to be investigating that, whether i should be subsidizing them with my tax dollars, i think that's the real scandal here. coming up after the break we'll have more of this. i think farmers care more about the land

than probably anyone else. we've had this farm for 30 years. we raise black and red angus cattle. we also produce natural gas. that's how we make our living and that's how we can pass the land and water back to future generations. people should make up their own mind what's best for them. all i can say is it has worked well for us.

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now as you can tell, we have a lot of lively disagreement on the "now" set. there is nothing that we disagree about more than the all important subject of foul or no foul. hugo, a san antonio spurs fan. what do you mean it was a foul? it was not a foul. >> it depends on which call you're talking about. >> the final play of the game. >> the last shot going to the bench. >> all ball. >> obviously it was all ball. what did he do with the body? >> flop. >> you have to look at both. >> bill wants to know what darryl issa thinks. >> i would like to see -- >> maybe we'll give it to him. that sounds like a plan.

i think we found darryl issa's mission. >> that's it. originated in the white house. that is where the scandal originated. chris bosh is not to blame. thanks to ron, maggie, bill and hugo. i'll see you back here tomorrow at noon eastern when alex is joined by guests. catch alex tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern. "andrea mitchell reports" is up next. [ male announcer ] erica had a rough day. good thing she's got the citi simplicity card.

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all free men, wherever they may live, are citizens of berlin and therefore as a freeman i take pride in the words ish bin ide. >> if anybody asked if president

kennedy's words ring true today, let them come to berlin for here they will find a people who merged from the wounds of war to reap the blessings of peace. >> right now on "andrea mitchell reports", an historic stage. five years ago candidate obama delivered his message of hope and change to a crowd of 200 thousand germans. today president obama was back. this time on the eastern side of the brandenberg gate with a call to reduce nuclear weapons. >> we are not only citizens of america or germany, we are also citizens of the world. and our faith and fortunes are linked like never before. we may no longer live in fear of global annihilation, but so far as nuclear weapons exist, we are not truly safe. >> the fbi brought in the top gun today. veteran fbi director robert muller says that those controversial surveillance programs did help thwart terror